Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22 - 6/26/08

[SS]

Nobody has said that Beth has been deceived.   JM has been extrememly helpful and supportive of Beth and Dave.  I honestly believe that he has great sympathy for both of them.  His efforts have been appreciated and continue to be appreciated.  He has been as helpful as he can be ...... 

 

SS ... if you perceive for one minute that Jossy Mansur is Dirtyhand ... then you must adhere to the belief that Jossy's role in the Natalee Holloway case could possibly be one of deception.

Janet

+++++++++

It's certainly possible that JM could be His Lordship.  I originally thought that Rudy was Dirty Hand, but JM seems to have more power and the ability to reach into more parts of that island than Rudy does.  Dirty Hand seems to have a lot of power.  Shango also said that Dirty Hand doesn't take part in the Raves and we heard that Rudy imports girls from Venezuela.  I kind of eliminated Rudy based on the girls.  I am now wondering if Rudy is the Arawak King because of his brother Betico's high esteem and importance.  I went back and read the posts from June 27th, 2005 and I don't think that Dirty Hand is van der Stratten.  Shango made several statements in that post about someone of power helping with the search and then he also mentioned the chief of police.  I don't know if Shango meant that Babalu had all parts of the clue correct or if he had hit on part of it at 12:30.  I don't think van der Straten has that much power, but I could be completely off base.  It's typical Shango - yesterday I thought Rudy was Dirty Hand, and today I think it's JM.

 

++++++++++

Really, Janet.  You are quoting a discussion that we are having over in the Shango thread. 

[Rob]

Ahhhhhhhh...but there appears to be a white van behind Mr. Softie...LOL

dat's da popo!!



stuff'd in like luggage...

and here they do it again last week!! LMAO!!


time for a snoozee!

and one for fun!!

good goolie moolie!!! 

[Destiny]

Ahhhhhhhh...but there appears to be a white van behind Mr. Softie...LOL

dat's da popo!!



stuff'd in like luggage...

and here they do it again last week!! LMAO!!


time for a snoozee!

and one for fun!!

good goolie moolie!!! 

Rob.....waz dat tat on the dude sleepin'?

[Rob]

Rob.....waz dat tat on the dude sleepin'?

Des - YOU are not going to believe this - I blew it up to 300% and inverted the colors and then mirrored and then cropped - and guess what???

it say KICK ME

 

[AZSunny]

Rob.....waz dat tat on the dude sleepin'?

Des - YOU are not going to believe this - I blew it up to 300% and inverted the colors and then mirrored and then cropped - and guess what???

it say KICK ME

 

Did you learn how to do that from JackB? 

[Blonde]

I just got this today do you think this would apply for Aruba
Headline Archives
   
SPECIALIZED ASSISTANCE
For U.S. Crime Victims Overseas    
06/23/08    

Kenbom-Tenbom

Earlier this month, we told you how the FBI responds internationally to incidents of Americans being seriously harmed or killed overseas.

But we also offer another, more personal service: through our victim assistance program, we ensure that victims and their families receive all the rights and services help they are entitled to under U.S. law. In other words, we make sure they have what they need to help put their lives back together.

share.gif
The FBI established its Office for Victim Assistance in 2002 to aid victims of crimes investigated by the Bureau, including overseas crimes against Americans. In addition to experts at our Headquarters, every FBI field office has its own victim assistance specialist. But we soon recognized that victims of overseas crimes that fell under FBI jurisdiction—like terrorism and kidnappings—had unique needs. So in 2003, we formed a Terrorism Victim Assistance Program within our Office for Victim Assistance.

Included on our special terrorism team are licensed clinical social workers and, soon, a forensic family affairs specialist—all with plenty of experience working with victims, particularly bombing victims.

Since then, we have worked with a variety of victims and their families—tourists, business travelers, missionaries, journalists, and humanitarian aid workers. We’ve also assisted U.S. government contractors and employees, including diplomats, security officials, and drivers. We have even worked with some of our own employees deployed overseas—most recently, with four agents injured in a bombing in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Our assistance usually begins shortly after the family—or in some cases an employer—is notified of the incident by the State Department. Our assistance can continue for years, depending on the path of the investigation and subsequent court proceedings…as well as the needs of the victim and/or family.

What kind of assistance do we offer? We break it down into three phases:

    * Acute: usually lasting anywhere from one to four weeks—includes explaining the process to the family; meeting with victims; coordinating medical evacuations and autopsies (if necessary) and obtaining official death certificates for benefits purposes; arranging crisis intervention services if appropriate; and facilitating investigative interviews with family members;
    * Intermediate/Transition: usually anywhere from four to 24 weeks—includes identifying additional federal, state, and local resources for victims; providing appropriate intervention with creditors and employers; supplying case status updates; and arranging briefings with investigative officials; and
    * Long-term: could be months or years—includes responding to inquiries from victims and/or their families; maintaining updated victim contact information; providing updates on case developments; and assisting with travel arrangements to attend the trial.

Over the past several years, we’ve been called upon to offer assistance to victims around the world. We’ve coordinated medical evacuations following terrorist attacks in the U.K., Jordan, and Egypt…helped families of citizens taken hostage in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Colombia…worked with recovered American hostages from Afghanistan, Iraq, Gaza, and Nigeria…and coordinated the repatriation of citizens killed in terror attacks in London, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, and Jordan.

We don’t do it alone. While working with American victims and their families, we often work closely with partner agencies like the State Department, Defense Department, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, and the Dover Air Force Base Mortuary.

Resources:
- FBI Office for Victim Assistance

[Rob]

Did you learn how to do that from JackB? 

Hi AZ
 

[SS]

I am standing by my earlier post 100%.  I have reposted below.  I have very strong and personal feelings about any individuals or groups of individuals who bring heroin and cocaine to the shores of this country.  I don't really care who they are.  I have watched more than one student, as promising as Natalee, lowered into the ground because those students foolishly took part in the recreational use of cocaine and/or heroin that was imported into this country and I have watched the lives of other young people ruined.  I will ask those who are in opposition to my opinion if you can prove to me that Jossy, Elias, or Miguel never had knowledge of, participation in, or personal financial gain from the drug smuggling activities that the Mansur family has been known for over a period of many years and that Ruben, Alex, and Luis have actually been arrested for. I have nothing further to say.

_______________________

I feel like I need to say something, and I realize that it's not going to be popular with some of the monkeys.  But, I still need to say it because it is reality.

The Mansur family has been involved with drugs, money laundering, and gambling in the Caribbean for many years. The family is fabulously wealthy and they have all benefited from things that the dirty money has provided.  At this point, the family owns 60% of Aruba.  Some Mansurs do seem to have legitimate businesses, but the big family money and power has come from a very dark place.  JM and his relatives know where their money has come from and they are not saints.

The reason we are gathered on this forum is to seek Justice for a high school senior who disappeared on Aruba, but how many high school seniors here in America have overdosed on heroin or cocaine that has been smuggled into the US by members of the Mansur family?  There is nothing more tragic than the funeral of a promising young person who has overdosed on recreational drugs at a party. 

I do appreciate that Jossy has helped Beth and Dave, but this doesn't exonerate him or his family from the bigger picture.  Dirty Hand or not, JM knows exactly what happened that night because he is the most powerful man on that island and it's his business to know what happened that night. He has chosen not to reveal the information although he most likely has great sympathy for Beth and Dave.  I am also not aware of any Mansur money being spent for drug clinics or drug prevention programs.  We can certainly be appreciative of the small tokens that come our way, but let's not forget the bigger picture.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Hi All,
Just wanted to update everyone about DC. Aruba never showed. As Linda said, It was great. They were on the list to go, and then pulled out....I imagine it was costly.Almost every other Island was there...so unless they were disguised, they didnt show, We walked around wearing our shirts and gavethe 20.00 Bills out at the food court where the owners put them out... I gave them to the teenagers who were there. There really wasnt much to do because like I said Aruba was to embarresed to show their ugly faces...Pictures will be coming and Yes its me cause Linda had the camers. It was taken at the NY Times Booth. I hope someone sends it to the Times....We left the 20.00 bills on each Booths table and in the ladies room. Prayer cards were handed out the next day, but I left because like I said NOONE was going to aruba...
Thanks for your prayers and support. Linda it was wonderful meeting you and I hope and pray we can all meet in Alabama when they bring Natalee home,
Hugs
Vicki

Thanks for the update *******

[Pita]

I just got this today do you think this would apply for Aruba
Headline Archives
   
SPECIALIZED ASSISTANCE
For U.S. Crime Victims Overseas    
06/23/08    

Kenbom-Tenbom

Earlier this month, we told you how the FBI responds internationally to incidents of Americans being seriously harmed or killed overseas.

But we also offer another, more personal service: through our victim assistance program, we ensure that victims and their families receive all the rights and services help they are entitled to under U.S. law. In other words, we make sure they have what they need to help put their lives back together.

share.gif
The FBI established its Office for Victim Assistance in 2002 to aid victims of crimes investigated by the Bureau, including overseas crimes against Americans. In addition to experts at our Headquarters, every FBI field office has its own victim assistance specialist. But we soon recognized that victims of overseas crimes that fell under FBI jurisdiction—like terrorism and kidnappings—had unique needs. So in 2003, we formed a Terrorism Victim Assistance Program within our Office for Victim Assistance.

Included on our special terrorism team are licensed clinical social workers and, soon, a forensic family affairs specialist—all with plenty of experience working with victims, particularly bombing victims.

Since then, we have worked with a variety of victims and their families—tourists, business travelers, missionaries, journalists, and humanitarian aid workers. We’ve also assisted U.S. government contractors and employees, including diplomats, security officials, and drivers. We have even worked with some of our own employees deployed overseas—most recently, with four agents injured in a bombing in Islamabad, Pakistan.

Our assistance usually begins shortly after the family—or in some cases an employer—is notified of the incident by the State Department. Our assistance can continue for years, depending on the path of the investigation and subsequent court proceedings…as well as the needs of the victim and/or family.

What kind of assistance do we offer? We break it down into three phases:

    * Acute: usually lasting anywhere from one to four weeks—includes explaining the process to the family; meeting with victims; coordinating medical evacuations and autopsies (if necessary) and obtaining official death certificates for benefits purposes; arranging crisis intervention services if appropriate; and facilitating investigative interviews with family members;
    * Intermediate/Transition: usually anywhere from four to 24 weeks—includes identifying additional federal, state, and local resources for victims; providing appropriate intervention with creditors and employers; supplying case status updates; and arranging briefings with investigative officials; and
    * Long-term: could be months or years—includes responding to inquiries from victims and/or their families; maintaining updated victim contact information; providing updates on case developments; and assisting with travel arrangements to attend the trial.

Over the past several years, we’ve been called upon to offer assistance to victims around the world. We’ve coordinated medical evacuations following terrorist attacks in the U.K., Jordan, and Egypt…helped families of citizens taken hostage in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Colombia…worked with recovered American hostages from Afghanistan, Iraq, Gaza, and Nigeria…and coordinated the repatriation of citizens killed in terror attacks in London, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Egypt, and Jordan.

We don’t do it alone. While working with American victims and their families, we often work closely with partner agencies like the State Department, Defense Department, Armed Forces Institute of Pathology, and the Dover Air Force Base Mortuary.

Resources:
- FBI Office for Victim Assistance

Blonde, it sure seems like it would apply to Natalee!

[Blonde]

Pita, That was why I posted it, I may send it to Beth.

[Tamikosmom]

I am standing by my earlier post 100%.  I have reposted below.  I have very strong and personal feelings about any individuals or groups of individuals who bring heroin and cocaine to the shores of this country.  I don't really care who they are.  I have watched more than one student, as promising as Natalee, lowered into the ground because those students foolishly took part in the recreational use of cocaine and/or heroin that was imported into this country and I have watched the lives of other young people ruined.  I will ask those who are in opposition to my opinion if you can prove to me that Jossy, Elias, or Miguel never had knowledge of, participation in, or personal financial gain from the drug smuggling activities that the Mansur family has been known for over a period of many years and that Ruben, Alex, and Luis have actually been arrested for.  I have nothing further to say.

Hey ... wait a minute.  You got that backwards.

I believe that it is you SS who should provide the proof that Jossy Mansur has "knowledge of, participation in, or personal financial gain from the drug smuggling activities that the Mansur family has been known for over a period of many years and that Ruben, Alex, and Luis have actually been arrested for" prior to implying otherwise.

It is not as though Jossy Mansur chose a relationship with Ruben, Alex and Luis.  They are family.

Nevertheless ... the issue is Jossy Mansur upholding the family in their contention that a corrupt investigation has been preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee.  In that area ... IMO Jossy Mansur is above reproach.

Janet

[hotping]

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/337204.html

Law & Order
last updated: June 23, 2008 03:58:40 AM

STUDENTS INVESTIGATE LEVY SLAYING: A student project to investigate the 2001 death of Chandra Levy is receiving attention from CNN.com, which has created a Web site to track the project's progress. Criminal justice students at Bauder College in Atlanta are looking at Levy's case as well as the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway, an Alabama teen who vanished during a trip to Aruba. On June 11, CNN.com rolled out a special Web section detailing the investigation. The students are pursuing the cases as members of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, an extracurricular crime club directed by Sheryl McCollum. The project will be featured on CNN's site through December. For more information, go to http://edition.cnn.com and search for "Bauder College." McCollum said tips about either case can be sent to ColdCaseTips@USACops.com.

[SS]

I am standing by my earlier post 100%.  I have reposted below.  I have very strong and personal feelings about any individuals or groups of individuals who bring heroin and cocaine to the shores of this country.  I don't really care who they are.  I have watched more than one student, as promising as Natalee, lowered into the ground because those students foolishly took part in the recreational use of cocaine and/or heroin that was imported into this country and I have watched the lives of other young people ruined.  I will ask those who are in opposition to my opinion if you can prove to me that Jossy, Elias, or Miguel never had knowledge of, participation in, or personal financial gain from the drug smuggling activities that the Mansur family has been known for over a period of many years and that Ruben, Alex, and Luis have actually been arrested for.  I have nothing further to say.

Hey ... wait a minute.  You got that backwards.

I believe that it is you SS who should provide the proof that Jossy Mansur has "knowledge of, participation in, or personal financial gain from the drug smuggling activities that the Mansur family has been known for over a period of many years and that Ruben, Alex, and Luis have actually been arrested for" prior to implying otherwise.

It is not as though Jossy Mansur chose a relationship with Ruben, Alex and Luis.  They are family.

Nevertheless ... the issue is Jossy Mansur upholding the family in their contention that a corrupt investigation has been preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee.  In that area ... IMO Jossy Mansur is above reproach.Janet

And you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I.

[Pita]

Pita, That was why I posted it, I may send it to Beth.

Good idea!   

[SS]

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/337204.html

Law & Order
last updated: June 23, 2008 03:58:40 AM

STUDENTS INVESTIGATE LEVY SLAYING: A student project to investigate the 2001 death of Chandra Levy is receiving attention from CNN.com, which has created a Web site to track the project's progress. Criminal justice students at Bauder College in Atlanta are looking at Levy's case as well as the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway, an Alabama teen who vanished during a trip to Aruba. On June 11, CNN.com rolled out a special Web section detailing the investigation. The students are pursuing the cases as members of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, an extracurricular crime club directed by Sheryl McCollum. The project will be featured on CNN's site through December. For more information, go to http://edition.cnn.com and search for "Bauder College." McCollum said tips about either case can be sent to ColdCaseTips@USACops.com.

Is the Bauder College group the "help from the States" that CAPS was referring to earlier in the month? 

[hotping]

http://www.modbee.com/local/story/337204.html

Law & Order
last updated: June 23, 2008 03:58:40 AM

STUDENTS INVESTIGATE LEVY SLAYING: A student project to investigate the 2001 death of Chandra Levy is receiving attention from CNN.com, which has created a Web site to track the project's progress. Criminal justice students at Bauder College in Atlanta are looking at Levy's case as well as the 2005 disappearance of Natalee Holloway, an Alabama teen who vanished during a trip to Aruba. On June 11, CNN.com rolled out a special Web section detailing the investigation. The students are pursuing the cases as members of the Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, an extracurricular crime club directed by Sheryl McCollum. The project will be featured on CNN's site through December. For more information, go to http://edition.cnn.com and search for "Bauder College." McCollum said tips about either case can be sent to ColdCaseTips@USACops.com.

Is the Bauder College group the "help from the States" that CAPS was referring to earlier in the month? 

Good Question....I was thinking that it could be Them that Caps was talking about.....

[Buckeye]

The Mansur and Florida "research" has been going on, for years. Check Aruba Dirty Police, August 2006.

The fact that a connection, to Jossy and his children, has not been identified, on any government or legal document, speaks volumes.  All boards, pro and con, have been searching. I am also sure that Miami is a favored place of any Aruban (and South American) just because of the culture in that city. I am more out-of place in Miami than someone from Aruba.  It is very different. I don't necessarily think that all the people are attracted for the drugs and porn.  I am open to the possiblity.

I come from a large family, including Doctors, VPs of major corporations and yes, my brother K____, the bookey.  Needles to say, the FBI has visited several siblings, but K___ is his own man.

Jossy has written many books with deep love of Aruba.  It would not surprise me if he has given to island philanthropic organizations, including drug education.  I never researched it.

If Jossy did "nix" sending a copy of "the letter", it very well could be, because he promised anonymity to the sender.  There is a reason that some Arubans feel safe going to Jossy.  Maybe it is his verbal/journalistic reprimands of those in power.

I agree with mojo, yapperz1, 2NJSons, dennisintn, LiPuma and Janet. 

I'm not so sure Jossy has not been "verbal".  He did post a full page letter, from us, on Natalee's anniversary.

[Observer]

Is the Bauder College group the "help from the States" that CAPS was referring to earlier in the month? 

Negative and I do not believe Caps got the help he was hoping for

[Miss Scarlet]

Fellow Monkeys,

Reading today promotes great sadness.  SS, Janet, Rob, and many others whose 'handle' eludes me at the moment  . . .  really people - it's quite enough already. 

SS's post (initial and subsequent) have merit.  So does Janet's, Rob's, etc.

Each of you know not what the other knows.  This is not a jury trial.  Consensus must not be had.

Go back to your respective corners after you kiss and make-up.  This banter is not remotely productive and only serves to soil yourselves.  Take the high road, take a walk, or whatever, but chill.