Natalee Case Discussion #760 6/22 - 6/26/08

[Lala'sMom]

Joran craves the attention...he runs from no one. He has repeatedly desired to be the object of discussion...that is Joran...we have looked at that guy for 3 years now.  Does the video identify him as Joran? 

[Helen Back]

thanks, mrskub.

Same unfortunate crust-stache, IMO.

Could that happen to two people?

 

[caesu]

Sorry this is not Joran
This is a look a like
Joran is in Den Dolder (Altrecht )

it could be him. AND he could be at Altrecht.

do we know when this footage was recorded?

caesu  you told before that you have also info that Joran is in Den Dolder

yes i have,
but that doesn't necessarily mean that he has been all the time at Den Dolder.
he might have stayed there for an amount of time and then moved to Thailand.

[SS]

Is Joran going bald and he wears that cap to hide it?  Kinda like papa and his hairline?

Maybe he picked up head lice in Bangkok.

[Puzzler]

thanks, mrskub.

Same unfortunate crust-stache, IMO.

Could that happen to two people?

 

Look at the picture on the left and the uppermost portion of the ear, closer to the face the portion of the ear that folds forward is a straight line across the bottom.   Now look at the picutre on the right and the same section of the ear, the fold over portion of the top of the ear is curved - not straight.
Anyone other than me see it that way?

[Tamikosmom]

I'm sorry but I don't believe for one second Mos was going to close this case.....NO ONE will close this case completely....they will have to give up all documents,tapings etc if they do and we know they won't do that.If it's left up to aruba and the NL,this case will remain frozen.

I agree 100% Karma.

 

If the Natalee Holloway investgation is never officially closed ... allowed to become a "cold case" ... Aruba is not obligated to open the case files to parties/agencies that have an agenda to expose the Aruban investigation for what it was "corrupt" ... the suspects for who they are "guilty".

Janet

+++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

++++++++++++

Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
July 6, 2005

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

[GBMW]

I find it very suspicious that Joran's anger issues did not come into play in regards to the video recording that was about to be released where he implicates himself as being the last person with Natalee Holloway.  He has not concern.  Also ... he does not appear to hold anything again Patrick van der Eem or Peter Devries.

Something is not right!

GBMW ... it appears on the Dutch only Youtube video that Grandma turned over the phone to Joran almost immediately.

Nevertheless ... I am curious how you know that Joran was talking to Patrick on his cell while Grandma was talking to Pauw or Witteman on the phone.  Do you and Patrick have a connection?

Janet

Doesn't have anything against Peter R. de Vries? Besides the shows of Peter R. de Vries...have you read his book, the interview with Panorama, seen the show at P&W where he threw some wine? I think he has some issues with mr. de Vries

Joran and Patrick...don't know about that...maybe something will be about that in Patricks book. 
Maybe he was more concerned about how he couldn't have seen it coming, how he could get away with it...that he didn't have time to be angry or maybe he wanted to play it cool so it would seem there was nothing to worry about.

When he was in Drachten people heard Joran arguing like the devil on the balcony quite a few times. At least those moments were public displays of him not being very comfortable in those days. But really....why would he worry? It's 2008 and look who's travelling the world with what he's done....it seems he's getting away with it doesn't it? His arrogance makes him not to have any concern I think.

I don't have any connections with Patrick...I hear things concerning Patrick / Joran / the case because of my work & friends that are living in Arnhem. The phonestuff: heard about it from a former co-worker of mine who works for P&W now. It was also reported in a newspaper (I think the big article in Volkskrant just after the show...not sure though).

I must say that I really don't agree with your Peter R. de Vries / Patrick cover up theories.....way out of reality for me.

Peter R. de Vries is no saint...but some people on this site seem to forget this is his zillionth case...he's been working crime for 30 years...he's not just around to decieve Natalee's family and score some big bucks out of a girls ordeal...her horrible death.
Peter is under contract with SBS6...and yeah...sure he must have gotten a nice bonus; but that's not what's it about for him.

That one would question his integrity / accuse him of certain things just like that (without proof) is just uncalled for.

How I see it:
Peter R. de Vries used a thug to catch a thug; it succeeded for a big part. Programme was also sold  to ABC & thug writes book. Didn't work out legally yet...Peter is still working on the case; hoping he can help to get the thing to court.

[EURobert]

thanks, mrskub.

Same unfortunate crust-stache, IMO.

Could that happen to two people?

 

Look at the picture on the left and the uppermost portion of the ear, closer to the face the portion of the ear that folds forward is a straight line across the bottom.   Now look at the picutre on the right and the same section of the ear, the fold over portion of the top of the ear is curved - not straight.
Anyone other than me see it that way?

The left picture is to unsharp to see that 'bough' at the top part of the ear. The dark line there is the 'groove' you can see in the other pictures as well; above the bump that you can see in all three pictures. I'm 100% sure it's him!
And look at the eyebrows in the last two pictures: exactly the same!

[caesu]

Posted this on the FP earlier today.

Why you demanded 300 thousand euros from the police?
“I invented but an amount. It could be bargained. I have talked three times with the Criminal Intelligence Unit. But the only thing they wanted was that I would become a drug-infiltrant. They had no interest in Joran van der Sloot. Totaly not. The third time I said: f*ck you. Then a detective said: go to Peter R. de Vries.

Thank you EURobert
I certainly hope that is true about the OM having one more(or ANY)trump card left.

This was around the time Hans Mos was trying to shut the case down.

They had no interest in Joran van der Sloot. Totaly not. The third time I said: f*ck you. Then a detective said: go to Peter R. de Vries.

I'm sorry but I don't believe for one second Mos was going to close this case.....NO ONE will close this case completely....they will have to give up all documents,tapings etc if they do and we know they won't do that.If it's left up to aruba and the NL,this case will remain frozen.

it think Mos is just sitting out his time on the island. he is leaving in 2009?
if Peter R. de Vries comes with a new broadcast more focusing on PvdS (and cover-up?), Mos might resign even earlier.

Nico Jörg also was supposed to stay on longer.

i think Aruba is very anxious what Peter R. de Vries is going to do next.
Rudy Croes maybe doesn't know him, but Hans Mos as a Dutch prosecutor surely does.

Peter R. de Vries has busted a prosecutor before:
http://213.159.10.107/nl/articles/news/child-porn-on-prosecutors-computer-19815.html
http://www.expatica.com/nl/articles/news/denial-over-paid-child-porn-claims--20049.html
http://www.expatica.com/nl/articles/news/boss-drops-claim-of-child-porn-plot-31959.html
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joost_Tonino

these Patrick revelations will only make Peter R. de Vries more detirmined.
he is not going to let scumbags (JvdS, PvdS & Patrick) taint his international reputation.

[EURobert]

thanks, mrskub.

Same unfortunate crust-stache, IMO.

Could that happen to two people?

 

Look at the picture on the left and the uppermost portion of the ear, closer to the face the portion of the ear that folds forward is a straight line across the bottom.   Now look at the picutre on the right and the same section of the ear, the fold over portion of the top of the ear is curved - not straight.
Anyone other than me see it that way?

The left picture is to unsharp to see that 'bough' at the top part of the ear. The dark line there is the 'groove' you can see in the other pictures as well; above the bump that you can see in all three pictures. I'm 100% sure it's him!
And look at the eyebrows in the last two pictures: exactly the same!

Oops... Wrong word. 'bough' has to be 'arc'. (In Dutch we call an 'arc' a 'boog'.)

[KarmaRoundUp]

I'm sorry but I don't believe for one second Mos was going to close this case.....NO ONE will close this case completely....they will have to give up all documents,tapings etc if they do and we know they won't do that.If it's left up to aruba and the NL,this case will remain frozen.

I agree 100% Karma.

 

If the Natalee Holloway investgation is never officially closed ... allowed to become a "cold case" ... Aruba is not obligated to open the case files to parties/agencies that have an agenda to expose the Aruban investigation for what it was "corrupt" ... the suspects for who they are "guilty".

Janet

+++++++

February 15, 2008
Court of Appeal upholds lower judge’s decision not to detain J.v.d.S.
J.v.d.S remains prime suspect
Judicial investigation continues

The Court of Appeal announced by the end of yesterday, February 14th, 2008, its decision to uphold the refusal by the investigating judge to order pre-trial detention of J.v.d.S. in the case of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. The Office of the Public Prosecutor had requested such an order after the “Peter R de Vries-tapes” had been received by the Office and had been evaluated. Last week the Office appealed the ruling of refusal by the judge.

The reasons underlying the Court’s decision are the following. The Court has seen the visual materials, has listened to the audio materials and has inspected the verbatim reports. Based on that, the Court is of the opinion that there is a lack of sufficient facts and circumstances substantiating serious grounds for the suspicion of the suspect’s involvement in the crimes for which he is being held responsible by the prosecution. The Court will generally be a bit more hesitant when it has to decide on a new request for pre-trial detention of a suspect, when that same suspect has been detained repeatedly before and there has been a considerable lapse of time.

J.v.d.S. has given extensive and detailed statements in Patrick van der Eem’s car, the undercover citizen who worked for Peter R. de Vries, on what happened during the night of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. Nevertheless the Court sees various reasons not to accept the serious grounds of suspicion which are statutorily required for pre-trial detention. One of them is the history of contradictory statements by J.v.d.S., which were belied repeatedly by objective findings.

At this moment those parts of the statements made in Van der Eem’s car which contain new elements are not being underpinned by objective findings. Considering the possibility of a serious personality disorder – as voiced by the prosecution – combined with a personal history of untrue statements and remarks, which even according to the suspect himself are frequently false, the Court of Appeal has reasons for doubt regarding the incriminating character of the “car-statements.”

On the pre-trial detention issue the Code of criminal procedure does not provide for further appeals. The effect of the Court decision is that J.v.d.S. cannot be (re)arrested. The investigation of the Natalee Holloway case continues. J.v.d.S. is again the prime suspect.

At the end of the investigation the Office of the Public Prosecution will decide whether to charge or not.

++++++++++++

Jug Twitty
On the Record w/ Greta
July 6, 2005

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY: Well, the way the system works down here, when the case is closed, we will have all that information, and we can release it to the world.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161705,00.html


Art Wood
DANA PRETZER
July 2, 2006 - Part 1
July 8, 2006 - Part 2

The family of Natalee needs to put pressure on the US attorney in Birmingham to push the FBI to conduct an investigation after ALE close the case. We have a treaty that allows the FBI to pursue a violation of civil rights of an American citizen there.


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 2, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation, and they could extradite these suspects to the United States. Let me point out that there's a ton of circumstantial evidence in this case to convict these kids.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/

Janet,I sure hope what Art Wood has stated is true.I wonder if there is a limitation on how long a cold case can be cold.

[Tamikosmom]

these Patrick revelations will only make Peter R. de Vries more detirmined.
he is not going to let scumbags (JvdS, PvdS & Patrick) taint his international reputation.

caesu ... think about it.  Peter Devries is not naive.  Hey ... he is the detective yet ... Monkeys had Patrick figured out from the getgo.  Peter Devries and Patrick vander Eem worked very closely with the taping of this video recording.

Also ... the Dutch and Aruban law enforcements were aware of the project  at the time when Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained.  These law enforcements had been approach for cooperation but ... some law (BOB law) prevented that from happening ... so Patrick and Peter were on their own.

Something is not right.

Janet

++++++++

Arubans wary of fifth car trip in Holloway case
Monday 25 February 2008
 
Dutch tv crime reporter Peter R de Vries set up a fifth car trip to try and get Joran van der Sloot to confess to murdering US teenager Natalee Holloway after the Aruban public prosecution department said the original four recordings did not contain enough evidence, the Volkskrant reported on Saturday.
 
Aruban officials told De Vries and his team at a secret hotel meeting that the tapes did not contain enough new evidence, the paper says in a reconstruction of events surrounding the tv programme which claimed to solve the mystery of her disappearance.

Aruban public prosecutor Hans Mos told the paper he did not want to have anything to do with the extra car trip because he was afraid it could be construed as entrapment and blow the case.
 
The final car trip with Van der Sloot and his 'friend' Patrick van der Eem took place on January 29 in a borrowed car which had been hastily kitted out with recording equipment, the paper said. The original had already been sold.

During that trip, Van der Sloot said he was not sure if Natalee had been dead when a friend dumped her body at sea.  After the press release was issued claiming the case had been solved but without giving any further details, De Vries told the paper he hoped that Van der Sloot would again phone his 'friend'.
 
But website VKMag picked up a page on De Vries' website which identified Van der Sloot. The page had been prepared for release after the programme was aired on Sunday but had gone live by mistake.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/02/arubans_wary_of_fifth_car_trip.php


Wednesday, February 06, 2008
Joran and OM talk tomorrow in the Netherlands

ORANJESTAD – The conversation between Joran van der Sloot and the Public Prosecutor (OM) will most probably take place in the Netherlands tomorrow, said Joran’s lawyer Ariean de Bie.  Van der Sloot indicated last Monday that he is willing to be interrogated again by the police. According to Van der Eem, Joran continued to bombard him with email and sms until the day of the disclosure. 

After he had met Joran in a poker game in the casino, Van der Eem had approached the Dutch police last year with the suggestion to unmask him.  Justice questions the fact that he had given himself up.  Due to the fact that there is no law for special powers to investigate (BOB), deploy a civil informant in Aruba is unfortunately impossible, but this is different in the Netherlands.  Using police-informants is possible, but with ‘a lot of trouble’.  “But that is going to change”, said an insider in the OM.  “A BOB law is in the make and will probably be presented soon.”

http://amigoe.com/english/

[always 1]

I think we all have twins somewhere.  I look so much like Natalee's freind "Frannie" I could be her....

[KarmaRoundUp]

Posted this on the FP earlier today.

Why you demanded 300 thousand euros from the police?
“I invented but an amount. It could be bargained. I have talked three times with the Criminal Intelligence Unit. But the only thing they wanted was that I would become a drug-infiltrant. They had no interest in Joran van der Sloot. Totaly not. The third time I said: f*ck you. Then a detective said: go to Peter R. de Vries.

Thank you EURobert
I certainly hope that is true about the OM having one more(or ANY)trump card left.

This was around the time Hans Mos was trying to shut the case down.

They had no interest in Joran van der Sloot. Totaly not. The third time I said: f*ck you. Then a detective said: go to Peter R. de Vries.

I'm sorry but I don't believe for one second Mos was going to close this case.....NO ONE will close this case completely....they will have to give up all documents,tapings etc if they do and we know they won't do that.If it's left up to aruba and the NL,this case will remain frozen.

it think Mos is just sitting out his time on the island. he is leaving in 2009?
if Peter R. de Vries comes with a new broadcast more focusing on PvdS (and cover-up?), Mos might resign even earlier.

Nico Jörg also was supposed to stay on longer.

i think Aruba is very anxious what Peter R. de Vries is going to do next.
Rudy Croes maybe doesn't know him, but Hans Mos as a Dutch prosecutor surely does.

Peter R. de Vries has busted a prosecutor before:
http://213.159.10.107/nl/articles/news/child-porn-on-prosecutors-computer-19815.html
http://www.expatica.com/nl/articles/news/denial-over-paid-child-porn-claims--20049.html
http://www.expatica.com/nl/articles/news/boss-drops-claim-of-child-porn-plot-31959.html
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joost_Tonino

these Patrick revelations will only make Peter R. de Vries more detirmined.
he is not going to let scumbags (JvdS, PvdS & Patrick) taint his international reputation.

Thank you Caesu
I have no faith in Patrick but I will still hold out hope that Peter can shake some up to try and get to the truth.I too don't believe Patrick would damage his good rep all because of joran.Peter used a thug to catch a thug...that's what he should have done.It is not Peter's fault if that thug is now trying to make money off of this ordeal.
I hope it is true that Peter has paulus in his eye sight.

[SS]

I think we all have twins somewhere.  I look so much like Natalee's freind "Frannie" I could be her....

Hey always1 - how's the party going?  Did anyone arrive with the prairie schooner?

[bleachedblack]

Don't you think that the real Joran is running away when he see a man with a camera  ??
The man on these shots is smiling all the time !

 I think Joran loves the camera, despite the trouble he is in. It is true to form for a sociopath. Only someone that perceives they have done something wrong would run from a camera. Joran smirked when he was getting into the police cars 3 years ago. Obviously there he feels comforatable, and there is not much public out-cry surrounding him in his present location.

[caesu]

these Patrick revelations will only make Peter R. de Vries more detirmined.
he is not going to let scumbags (JvdS, PvdS & Patrick) taint his international reputation.

caesu ... think about it.  Peter Devries is not naive.  Hey ... he is the detective yet ... Monkeys had Patrick figured out from the getgo.  Peter Devries and Patrick vander Eem worked very closely with the taping of this video recording.

Also ... the Dutch and Aruban law enforcements were aware of the project  at the time when Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained.  These law enforcements had been approach for cooperation but ... some law (BOB law) prevented that from happening ... so Patrick and Peter were on their own.

Something is not right.

Janet

something is definately not right. a lot is not right.

i want to hear Peter R. de Vries reaction to Patrick's book.
later i am going to watch the repeat of the Netwerk.tv program.

he might just say:

"yes he is a thug. but a thug was needed to catch another.
it doesn't take anyhting away from the confession"

and the ALE wasn't contacted about Patrick before.
the Dutch LE was. because of not implemented BOB law on Aruba the Dutch decided not to pass Patrick on to Aruba.
later Ballin said this was a mistake. but Aruba wouldn't have been able to use Patrick anyway.

but i think he will be fuming silently if Peter is deceived by Patrick in any way.
and that will make him even more determined than he already was.

i hope Peter R. de Vries is in contact with Nico Jörg.
he might not want to be associated with Hero Brinkman, as the PVV is a bit of a controversial party.

but if a new broadcast will expose corruption / cover-up, i am sure Brinkman will hook in on that hype again.

[always 1]

I think we all have twins somewhere.  I look so much like Natalee's freind "Frannie" I could be her....

Hey always1 - how's the party going?  Did anyone arrive with the prairie schooner?
[n/quote]

[always 1]

Ha, The party is good SS, still waiting on you though..

[SS]

Ha, The party is good SS, still waiting on you though..

I'll have to stop at Harold's and pick up a new outfit.  I hope I'm not dating myself too much.