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Author Topic: McCain proposes $300 million for top electric car innovation  (Read 2141 times)
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WhiskeyGirl
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« on: June 24, 2008, 10:29:42 AM »

Big bucks for best battery?

To help break oil dependency, McCain proposes $300 million for top electric car innovation


By THOMAS CONTENT
tcontent@journalsentinel.com
Posted: June 23, 2008

Quote
The $300 million represents “one dollar for every man, woman and child in the U.S. — a small price to pay for helping to break the back of our oil dependency — and should deliver a power source at 30% of the current costs,” McCain said.

Engineers at Glendale-based Johnson Controls, Wisconsin’s largest public company, are already working to improve and bring down the cost of lithium-ion batteries for hybrids and plug-ins. A joint venture between Johnson Controls and French battery maker Saft began production of batteries this year in France for a Mercedes hybrid vehicle that’s set to go on sale early next year.

“The fact that it’s becoming something that we’re talking about in the campaign, nothing but good can come out of that,” said Alex Molinaroli, president of the power solutions unit for Johnson Controls.

“I believe this is not only a political issue but really an opportunity for us to chip away at some of our energy dependence on foreign oil.”

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“It’s kind of a populist message, not just in terms of addressing Americans’ concerns about price at the pump but also to address concerns in some key Midwest states where I expect McCain and his campaign are looking to improve their chances,” said Mark Warnsman, auto-industry analyst at Calyon Securities in New York City.

“Clearly it’s about the competitiveness of the U.S. automobile industry, and the . . . Midwest cares about that message.”

Quote
“The type of money that’s being spent here and the type of money that’s being spent in other parts of the world is totally different,” Molinaroli said.

Strong government support, experts say, has helped firms in China, Japan and Korea take the lead in development of small lithium-ion batteries that are used in all kinds of equipment, from cell phones to computers.

Quote
“I would have a concern about John McCain writing a check to (Korea-battery supplier) LG but then give nothing to Johnson Controls-Saft if it comes out with technology that’s not first but is still very efficient,” Smith said.

Quote
McCain’s announcement was the latest in a series of events in recent days on energy-related themes. In recent weeks he has endorsed a cap-and-trade program to reduce global warming emissions, called for construction of new nuclear reactors and shifted from his earlier opposition to offshore oil drilling in United States coastal waters.

His energy speech came one day after Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic nominee, announced a plan to curb “Enron-style” speculation in the oil markets. During a conference call with reporters on Monday, Obama’s advisers said McCain’s proposals are a contrast to his opposition over the years to bills that would require automakers to improve the gas mileage of cars and light trucks.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=765184
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2008, 06:15:18 AM »

I've been reading some words put out by the candidates.

Windfall profits tax on oil companies?  Who is really going to pay that?  Does anyone really think it won't be passed on to consumers? 

Why not prevent the windfalls in the first place?  How can that be accomplished?  Government regulation?

"Windfalls" is used everytime the price of gas spike and the CREATION of windfalls hasn't been addressed.

A tax by any other name still stinks and hits the poor, working class, and other groups that still have to travel.  It's hits many that are already taxed to death (another hidden tax). 

Reallocation of wealth - tax the oil companies, subsidize those that someone considers poor, and the rest pay.

Can the poor afford to pay the goods and services they need already?  I wonder how many have already cut back their driving and food purchases?  Heat or food?  Air or food?
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2008, 06:20:35 AM »

$300 million for innovation?

What a great idea.

Bill Gates, IIRC, was a small potato at one time.  He (and some others) saw a good idea and turned it into Microsoft.

How many Bill Gates are out there waiting for a chance?

How many would try for a chance at that $300 million?

People with $300 million already may not think that's a lot of money.  However, a clever person, of common means, working in their garage may actually come up with a viable idea.

What sticks and carrots do the Indians, Koreans, and others use to motivate?

Survival is a keen motivator.  Walking in the same rut day after day, year after year, IMHO is not.

$300 million.  I wonder how many future "Bill Gates" that might inspire?
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GreatOwl
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« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2008, 09:16:54 AM »

Gates did not really compete with multi billion dollar entities is developing Micro Soft.  The electric battery and the technology has been around for decades.  The problem has been that every time someone comes close to making is practical a multi million dollar company out bids and secures the patten and locks it is a safe.

What makes any one think that should anyone come up with an idea that the 300 million will be enough.  I am sure that any of a number of oil rich nations would pay twice that to a small developer and buy up the patten and technology before it can be marketed. 

I am sure the we will have electric technology with automobiles in the coming decade, however, the price will be much inflated and the return to the average consumer will be minimal at best.  It may be time to stop all the haggling over off shore drilling and commit our controlled resources to developing an alternative fuel and source.  Off shore drilling may be necessary to ease the current crisis although I have read reports that even if they began today it would not enter the pipeline for another 5 to 10 years.

Dependence on Oil is reaching its climax.  As a nation we need to commit ourselves and our government to finding alternatives to Oil based production. 

I agree that windfall taxes would only help for a very short time before they are passed on to the consumer.  There are even problems with the flex vehicle using E85.  The cost of such a vehicle is much more.  Many cities have only one or two locations to find the fuel and in some instances even though the fuel is not as efficient and gives lower gas mileage it has actually been more expensive.  Why?  The old story of supply and demand.


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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2008, 09:43:30 AM »

When the barrel is empty due to price or supply, what then?

Change has to start somewhere.  People have to go on every day.

"The electric battery and the technology has been around for decades.  The problem has been that every time someone comes close to making is practical a multi million dollar company out bids and secures the patten and locks it is a safe."

Why?

Why wouldn't society want to do something better?  Better for the environment, the planet, better for everyone.  mo

New drugs are rushed to market at great expense, why not new technology that will help us heat and cool our homes, commute to our jobs, or make it less expensive to produce goods and services?

New energy and the related storage devices hold so much promise for the future.  Why would anyone want to continue the policies of the past?

Losers never dream, and dreamers never lose.

Why stifle the dreamers?
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GreatOwl
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« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2008, 04:21:10 PM »

When the barrel is empty due to price or supply, what then?

Change has to start somewhere.  People have to go on every day.

"The electric battery and the technology has been around for decades.  The problem has been that every time someone comes close to making is practical a multi million dollar company out bids and secures the patten and locks it is a safe."

Why?

Why wouldn't society want to do something better?  Better for the environment, the planet, better for everyone.  mo

New drugs are rushed to market at great expense, why not new technology that will help us heat and cool our homes, commute to our jobs, or make it less expensive to produce goods and services?

New energy and the related storage devices hold so much promise for the future.  Why would anyone want to continue the policies of the past?

Losers never dream, and dreamers never lose.

Why stifle the dreamers?

I can not disagree with you.  I feel the same way.  It is disgusting to listen to congressional hearings and listen to the "big" oil companies arrogantly testify that as long as there is a profit to be had, they will pursue it for the sake of themselves and their shareholders.
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 10:46:38 PM »

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New pollution and energy facts - Overseas Pollution Hitting the U.S.

Reported July 2008

MADISON, Wis. (Ivanhoe Newswire) -- Every summer, a combination of heat, car exhaust and other chemicals cooks up into a big pollution problem called ozone. Forty-five percent of the U.S. population now lives in areas that exceed the health standard limit for ozone. But now, researchers have made an important discovery -- some of that air pollution is actually coming from the other side of the ocean.

Quote
“Just like the Eastern U.S. is affected by power plants in the Midwest, so the United States is affected by upwind emissions coming from Asia and Europe,” Tracey Holloway, Ph.D., Center for Sustainability and the Global Environment at University of Wisconsin, Madison, told Ivanhoe.

Dr. Holloway’s research indicates about 12-percent of the pollution in the Western United States comes from emissions in Asia and Europe. In the eastern US, up to 10-percent of air pollution comes from those areas.

Dr. Holloway’s mathematical models incorporate atmospheric science as well as chemistry and engineering to calculate ozone emissions and how they travel. She says pollution from Europe and Asia has the biggest U.S. impact in the spring and fall, and that could be important information for policymakers trying to clear the air.

“So if you’re trying to figure out what policies you should design to meet a particular ozone standard, you want to know how much you can control and how much you can’t control,” Dr. Holloway said.

http://www.ivanhoe.com/science/story/2008/07/448a.html

It would be interesting to know where all the pollution comes from.


Quote
Special Report: With Change Comes Opportunity
By: Greg Vogel   Thursday, June 12, 2008 2:50 AM

Investment Thesis
Two significant drivers are precipitating change across multiple sectors of the global economy. The first driver is a dramatic increase in energy and commodities costs due to burgeoning demand as highly populated countries industrialize. The second is a pervasive belief that global climate change is real and that carbon emissions must be reduced.

Quote
Investment Conclusions

The future of the automobile is electric. We view hybrid vehicles as a compromise of efficiency and range until better solutions emerge. Hydrogen fuel cells are possible and maybe likely, but will require significant infrastructure changes even after they become technologically feasible. Toyota is the best positioned of the large car manufacturers with hybrid dominance.

Watch for new battery technologies. Lithium-ion and lithium-polymer batteries are already powerful and light enough to make electric cars both possible and practical.

Light weight materials will become increasingly important. Relative to heavier materials, aluminum and composite manufacture will grow in demand despite their cost premium. There are a few carbon fiber manufacturers that bear watching. These materials will be needed in the automotive industry to realize greater efficiency and are being used now to manufacture wind turbine blades for wind power generation.

There will likely be a cap-and-trade carbon emission system implemented in the U.S. This will increase the cost to manufacture electricity and will increase the price to the consumer for produced goods in general. If poorly implemented, the possibility of either retarding economic growth or ineffectiveness toward reducing carbon emissions is possible.

Quote
We Want to Conclude with the Following Points:

Energy consumption is essential to economic growth. We all have a vested interest to protect our environment, but the desire to increase wealth, particularly in less developed countries, will remain the primary concern. Demand for “dirty” fossil fuels will continue.

Energy demand will increase. Conservation can slow demand and technology can increase efficiency, but overall energy consumption will continue to rise, particularly as the less developed populations of the world industrialize. Technology is finally beginning to make cleaner alternatives cost competitive and investment in those technologies will grow rapidly.

Low cost energy sources will win. The global abundance and efficiency of carbon based fuels have kept energy prices low. Historically, with every energy “crisis”, higher fuel prices have driven new investment in techniques and technologies to develop previously inaccessible sources. This in turn increases supply to meet that demand, reducing prices. The essential question is whether we have reached a tipping point, in oil in particular, where peak production may be approaching. We do not pretend to know this answer, but it is apparent that although the price of oil may moderate from the current high, $20 per barrel crude is a thing of the past.

Clean alternatives are available and abundant but still expensive to refine into usable energy. Rising oil prices encourage petroleum companies to invest more in exploration and increase supply, but they also make clean alternatives more cost competitive. The combination of technology which reduces the cost of alternatives and rising costs of fossil fuels, particularly after the environmental impact is considered, will make alternatives finally viable. There is no lack of solar radiation from the sun and the wind will continue to blow, but the trick is to turn it into energy. These sources will not replace our existing infrastructure in the near-term, but the cost to generate a watt from alternatives is getting competitive and many of the companies in these areas will be successful.

http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewarticle+articleid_2280916~zoneid_Home~title_Special-Report:-With.html

Long article, lots of info and charts.
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Kermit
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« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2008, 11:36:10 AM »

So instead of using gas, we use electric.

What is the plan for the electric crisis in some states?

doh!
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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2008, 01:33:43 PM »

So instead of using gas, we use electric.

What is the plan for the electric crisis in some states?

doh!

Coal plants are an option, wind, solar, and nuclear.

How simple would it be if all a person had to do was pull out their battery and take it in to charge it up?  I'm thinking a battery the size of a car radio.  Easily put in and out, portable and not to heavy.

In many northern places, cars come with heaters to keep the engine block warm over night.  It's simple thing.



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WhiskeyGirl
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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2008, 02:21:12 PM »

Here are my other thoughts -

When I hit the highway, it seems like most of the cars have just one person in them.  The show TopGear (BBC) had a vintage one person car made in the Isle of Man.  Wouldn't it be cool if here were one seaters like that powered by electric?  A commuter car?

Special lanes on the highway/interstate just for these tiny vehicles? 

Warehouse technology exists today that sends machines to pick product off of shelves automatically.  Why can't a small car exist that would be programmed with a destination (autopilot) and would travel the interstate?  Auto pilot due to the population of aggressive drivers and the smallness of the lanes/tubes, too much for 100% human control - orderly, quick, no hassle travels.

Such a small one person vehicle could fit two wide in a average lane on the interstate.  The little car on TopGear could be picked up and taken inside or perhaps stored vertically.

You could even have an electric rail of sorts.  The interstate already exists, and one would need to have a vehicle that could go from one point to another at a high rate of speed and when at the destination, turn into a car for local travel.  Rest stops could be requested when needed.

Amusement park rides use all kinds of old and new technology that might be of interest.

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It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
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