Natalee Case Discussion #761 6/26 - 6/30/08

[texasmom]

Cut Sebastian's hair please, Anita.

He looks like SHAGGY, if SHAGGY

swallowed Scooby whole!

 

[private eye]

Private Eye, I think Anita and her friends blame Natalee, Beth and the U.S. media for what Joran has become.  They don't want to believe that he was a bad seed long before Natalee and her friends planned their trip to Aruba.  It's someone else's fault. 

Look and listen.  Many many people rationalize and justify their actions.  They place the blame on others without once taking an honest look at themselves.  They criticize and judge and feel superior often without realizing they are guilty of the things they accuse others of doing.  We've seen and heard Aruba and the van der Sloots, aided by Joseph Tacopina and Julie Renfro, blame everyone but the narcissitic sociopath, his family and the legal authorities in Aruba for what's become of Joran van der Sloot.  To quote Jack Nicholson, they can't handle the truth.  The truth is that JVDS is responsible for what's become of Natalee.  They're all responsible for what's become of Beth. 

And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

[carpe noctem]

Cut Sebastian's hair please, Anita.

He looks like SHAGGY, if SHAGGY

swallowed Scooby whole!

IMAO_LOL_IMAO   

 


What's up, Johan? Hope you're having

yourself a good weekend, dude.

Greetings!

[klaasend]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

[Tamikosmom]

Peter Devries is not naive ... he must have an agenda?

IMO

Janet

++++++++++++

Dutch Crime Reporter Peter De Vries Goes Inside Joran van der Sloot's Explosive Tape
Friday, February 08, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Both his parents -- were they both present for that?

DE VRIES: Yes, they were present. Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Joran's parents say anything to you at that point or even after the show?

DE VRIES: After the show, they apologized for what their son did. And I think his mother is a good mother. She loves her son, but she doesn't know what he is doing, I think.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329847,00.html

Dutch Crime Reporter Peter De Vries Goes Inside Joran van der Sloot's Explosive Tape
Friday, February 08, 2008

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you think -- a lot of viewers send me e-mails. I have a -- we have a blog here, Gretawire.com, and they send a lot of comments. They're very suspicious that Paulus Van Der Sloot has more of an involvement than simply just the father of the man who was caught on tape. Do you have any information that in any way incriminates Paulus Van Der Sloot?

DE VRIES: Well, Joran told on tape that his father smuggled a mobile phone, a cell phone in the prison when he was the first time arrested. And he was a judge at that time, so that's -- that's a sin.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,329847,00.html

[LilPuma]

"me and Natalie"  Do we know if there is a Natalie or if he's playing the reader?  I assume this was discussed earlier when Johan posted, but I missed it.  Second, is it odd that he posts in English? 

[klaasend]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

http://rockinroyalty.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

FYI - Hiram on the right on the Venezuela trip prior to Natalee in Aruba:

[private eye]

Private Eye, I think Anita and her friends blame Natalee, Beth and the U.S. media for what Joran has become.  They don't want to believe that he was a bad seed long before Natalee and her friends planned their trip to Aruba.  It's someone else's fault. 

Look and listen.  Many many people rationalize and justify their actions.  They place the blame on others without once taking an honest look at themselves.  They criticize and judge and feel superior often without realizing they are guilty of the things they accuse others of doing.  We've seen and heard Aruba and the van der Sloots, aided by Joseph Tacopina and Julie Renfro, blame everyone but the narcissistic sociopath, his family and the legal authorities in Aruba for what's become of Joran van der Sloot.  To quote Jack Nicholson, they can't handle the truth.  The truth is that JVDS is responsible for what's become of Natalee.  They're all responsible for what's become of Beth. 

And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

If the roles were reversed, and Natalee was Joran, Beth and her family would feel blessed to have the opportunity to make amends for Natalee's mistakes. Beth and anyone in her family would give their right arm to have the opportunity to work with Natalee to overcome any addiction she might have, any lacking moral fiber that may be missing, or instilling any self discipline that she may be lacking. There would be no expense to great, until it took their last penny, their last ounce of strength, their last IOU they could issue, no task too tiresome, too hard, because it would be such a blessing to have her/their child alive, to be blessed with the responsibility of rearing Natalee. The blessing of a child is a blessing from God that is priceless, and to see Anita and Paulus so wantonly and grossly fail to appreciate and care for their blessing makes me ill. And if all it took were five years of incarceration in a friendly jail to see that Natalee was given a second chance at a normal life, and to give then a second chance at a normal life with her, they would not blink to say yes, yes, they will gladly pay that price.

And that does not even begin to address the collateral damage to the Innocent the actions of these adults have caused.

[private eye]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

http://rockinroyalty.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

FYI - Hiram on the right on the Venezuela trip prior to Natalee in Aruba:

I sincerely hope and pray that Joran's brothers do have the opportunity to pursue grand lives, free from the dark clouds of their brother and their parents.

[LilPuma]

Private Eye, I think Anita and her friends blame Natalee, Beth and the U.S. media for what Joran has become.  They don't want to believe that he was a bad seed long before Natalee and her friends planned their trip to Aruba.  It's someone else's fault. 

Look and listen.  Many many people rationalize and justify their actions.  They place the blame on others without once taking an honest look at themselves.  They criticize and judge and feel superior often without realizing they are guilty of the things they accuse others of doing.  We've seen and heard Aruba and the van der Sloots, aided by Joseph Tacopina and Julie Renfro, blame everyone but the narcissistic sociopath, his family and the legal authorities in Aruba for what's become of Joran van der Sloot.  To quote Jack Nicholson, they can't handle the truth.  The truth is that JVDS is responsible for what's become of Natalee.  They're all responsible for what's become of Beth. 

And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

If the roles were reversed, and Natalee was Joran, Beth and her family would feel blessed to have the opportunity to make amends for Natalee's mistakes. Beth and anyone in her family would give their right arm to have the opportunity to work with Natalee to overcome any addiction she might have, any lacking moral fiber that may be missing, or instilling any self discipline that she may be lacking. There would be no expense to great, until it took their last penny, their last ounce of strength, their last IOU they could issue, no task too tiresome, too hard, because it would be such a blessing to have her/their child alive, to be blessed with the responsibility of rearing Natalee. The blessing of a child is a blessing from God that is priceless, and to see Anita and Paulus so wantonly and grossly fail to appreciate and care for their blessing makes me ill. And if all it took were five years of incarceration in a friendly jail to see that Natalee was given a second chance at a normal life, and to give then a second chance at a normal life with her, they would not blink to say yes, yes, they will gladly pay that price.

And that does not even begin to address the collateral damage to the Innocent the actions of these adults have caused.

 
Both of your posts above display great wisdom and insight.  Well said. 

[texasmom]

"me and Natalie"  Do we know if there is a Natalie or if he's playing the reader?  I assume this was discussed earlier when Johan posted, but I missed it.  Second, is it odd that he posts in English? 

I don't know for sure about the Natalie, but I have seen a post by him on one of the Aruba boards in English also.  It was the post where he was talking about researching the history of the school or something like that.

[texasmom]

I agree with Lilpuma...well said posts PI!   

[Kermit]

Private Eye, I think Anita and her friends blame Natalee, Beth and the U.S. media for what Joran has become.  They don't want to believe that he was a bad seed long before Natalee and her friends planned their trip to Aruba.  It's someone else's fault. 

Look and listen.  Many many people rationalize and justify their actions.  They place the blame on others without once taking an honest look at themselves.  They criticize and judge and feel superior often without realizing they are guilty of the things they accuse others of doing.  We've seen and heard Aruba and the van der Sloots, aided by Joseph Tacopina and Julie Renfro, blame everyone but the narcissitic sociopath, his family and the legal authorities in Aruba for what's become of Joran van der Sloot.  To quote Jack Nicholson, they can't handle the truth.  The truth is that JVDS is responsible for what's become of Natalee.  They're all responsible for what's become of Beth. 

And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

Joran could have been so much more.
Look at what he has become - EVIL IN IT'S TRUEST FORM

All he has to do to change his life is become what his parents could not. HONEST!


what a wasted life.

[Kermit]

"me and Natalie"  Do we know if there is a Natalie or if he's playing the reader?  I assume this was discussed earlier when Johan posted, but I missed it.  Second, is it odd that he posts in English? 

I don't know for sure about the Natalie, but I have seen a post by him on one of the Aruba boards in English also.  It was the post where he was talking about researching the history of the school or something like that.

I think you're talking about Valentijn's girl friend named Natalie. He visited her in the states.

[texasmom]

"me and Natalie"  Do we know if there is a Natalie or if he's playing the reader?  I assume this was discussed earlier when Johan posted, but I missed it.  Second, is it odd that he posts in English? 

I don't know for sure about the Natalie, but I have seen a post by him on one of the Aruba boards in English also.  It was the post where he was talking about researching the history of the school or something like that.

I think you're talking about Valentijn's girl friend named Natalie. He visited her in the states.

Lilpuma,
This is the link to the page where Johan posted the page of Valentijn.  Sorry, I didn't have it to post originally and had to go back and find it.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2669.60

[Blonde]

I just went to the bottom of the page on the SM Discussion page and it showed 92 guests.  Either that's wrong, or something's going on and everyone's coming here to see what's being said.     

That's not wrong everyone comes here because we have the BEST INFORMATION and the BEST RESEARCHERS  with NO BS
They take are information back to there small so called forums and twist it around. 

[Blonde]

Sorry, I posted this one the wrong thread.


Are these names Familiar?  Gerald Oduber (19), Joe Oduber (23), Gos Oduber (46), Orson Oduber (20)

Since XXX informed us that Nelson attended college in the US, I made an effort to find info on him here in the States. My first place to look was the state of Florida, as it seems a popular destination for Arubans wishing to attend college in the US.

I doubt this is anything of significance, but better safe than sorry:

BACKGROUND REPORT

We Found Unique Background Data for Nelson O Oduber in FL state.
Nelson O Oduber's 20 Year Address History includes at least one of the following locations:
1 Record Found in DAYTONA BEACH, FL

Source: Intelius

Only problem with this is that 20 years ago would have been 1985-present. I believe his first term began around 1985. So supposing this is the Prime Minister listed in this database, are we to assume that he lived in Daytona Beach between terms? Or perhaps he just has a "vacation house" there...? What does everyone else think?

I'm looking in my files now
_________________

[Blonde]

"I know Nelson Jr. they call him chucho also.....
With the oldest i was in the plane on my way back to holland end of august...don't know him personally...but do know he got a great job in the government, obviously, and his dad paid his son's college money with money that wasn't his..."

[Blonde]

I know some cousins of his sons, used to be in my class.... His oldest son works for the government, obviously got it cause of his dad, the 2 younger ones study, 1 in US, in in aruba.

Source: xxxxx

Hmm... so 2 in Aruba, 1 in the US... I could've sworn that JR told me 1 was in Holland because he was on the same plane as JR... let me try and find that...

Edited at 11:35 a.m.: Ohhh, read my first post in this thread. JR was on a plane to Holland at the end of August with the oldest Oduber son, who works for the government. This Oduber son was obviously on a short trip (business or pleasure?). So what was he doing going to Holland at the end of August? Anything significant happen with the case at the end of August?

[Blonde]

one is Glenson........the youngest is Nelson Jr. aka Chito.......the oldest i dont recall right now....