Natalee Case Discussion #761 6/26 - 6/30/08

[private eye]

I have what I hope doesn't sound like a really stupid question.

I'm sitting here watching a TV show with a neurologist talking about how brain injury in childhood can cause criminal behavior in adults. He discusses head injuries from falling, sports, etc.

Have we ever heard (and I'm really serious about this) of Joran having had any kind of head injury when he was younger?

Joran was simply born to parents who have no morals, no scruples, no backbone, no time for him, no parenting skills, and who simply don't and didn't care to train him. They are babbling, self centered, fools consisiting of an immature bastard and a slutty bitch, and pardon my French. Now they might possibly haver been hit over the head a few times, only not enough or hard enough for my tastes!!!!!!

Seems you have gotten a bit angrier than when you posted this a few pages earlier PI. Can't say I blame you either way you say it hard or soft.....the kids a looser. 
++++++++++++


And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

Not really, I lay the blame for Joran's behavior and actions squarely at the feet of his parents in both posts. One is more of a description of their actions or lack of actions, and the other represents the anger and frustration I feel as a result of the description of their actions and my personal opinion of them.

Well yea, sometimes I get a little angry, sometimes I try to understand, most times I just wish for a face to face meeting with both parents and their child.

But the truist of thruths is that these post's of mine are designed to get their attention. push their buttons, just in the small chance that they might read them. So I preach the same message, using different tones and words, not knowing which arrangments might be effective. Kind of like baiting a trotline:)

[bleachedblack]

Can't blame you .....what will it take to make them step up and be parents?.......or is it to late?

[San]

Can't blame you .....what will it take to make them step up and be parents?.......or is it to late?

It's too late in my opinion.  They don't care and they never have.   In their mind they did step up and they protected their son.

[private eye]

Can't blame you .....what will it take to make them step up and be parents?.......or is it to late?

It's too late in my opinion.  They don't care and they never have.   In their mind they did step up and they protected their son.

Maybe Dr. Phil could schedule a show with the three of them:)

[WhiskeyGirl]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

http://rockinroyalty.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

FYI - Hiram on the right on the Venezuela trip prior to Natalee in Aruba:

I sincerely hope and pray that Joran's brothers do have the opportunity to pursue grand lives, free from the dark clouds of their brother and their parents.

Sadly, Joran has become a poster child for the attraction that gambling, drugs, porn, and 'easy' money has on young people.  He is not alone.  These things ruin so many young lives.  jmho

Children learn from those around them. 

Sometimes, no matter how good the example is, the child takes a different path in life. 

Sometimes, no matter how rough and rocky the example may have been, the child does well and prospers.

Sometimes, I think the best thing to do is keep the child from being run down by the train.  Teach the child to stay away from the tracks, teach the child some good rules to live by, and to pay attention when the train is coming.  It doesn't make any sense to take the child to the casino station or side of the tracks, and leave them all alone.  imho

Lots of people put pennies on the track when a train comes, and they admire the results.  Sometimes the pennies fly away, never to be found.  Sometimes, people are careless, and someone get's hurt.  mo

[private eye]

Can't blame you .....what will it take to make them step up and be parents?.......or is it to late?

It's too late in my opinion.  They don't care and they never have.   In their mind they did step up and they protected their son.

Maybe Dr. Phil could schedule a show with the three of them:)

Tell the truth, present a defense based upon the truth attempting to mitigate his jail time, make him face the consequences, work on getting Beth to forgive him based upon him be forthright with the truth, apologize to the innocent in Aruba, etc. His 3 plus years of freedom have been a disaster by anyone's definition, and he seems to be falling further and further into a hole, so would jail time be so bad? Justice would further heal Beth, there is nothing he can do for Natalee, but who knows, people just might give him a second chance, at least it is a possibility. Does that appear to be a possibility if they keep pursuing the same old thing?

Anyway, don't let my outburst disrupt the group. And when I do please try to overlook me:)

[private eye]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

http://rockinroyalty.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

FYI - Hiram on the right on the Venezuela trip prior to Natalee in Aruba:

I sincerely hope and pray that Joran's brothers do have the opportunity to pursue grand lives, free from the dark clouds of their brother and their parents.

Sadly, Joran has become a poster child for the attraction that gambling, drugs, porn, and 'easy' money has on young people.  He is not alone.  These things ruin so many young lives.  jmho

Children learn from those around them. 

Sometimes, no matter how good the example is, the child takes a different path in life. 

Sometimes, no matter how rough and rocky the example may have been, the child does well and prospers.

Sometimes, I think the best thing to do is keep the child from being run down by the train.  Teach the child to stay away from the tracks, teach the child some good rules to live by, and to pay attention when the train is coming.  It doesn't make any sense to take the child to the casino station or side of the tracks, and leave them all alone.  imho

Lots of people put pennies on the track when a train comes, and they admire the results.  Sometimes the pennies fly away, never to be found.  Sometimes, people are careless, and someone get's hurt.  mo

He definitely wasn't raised in the best "village" including well to do US people coming there on vacation with their vacation manners and morals. That could include me only I visited other places. No knock intended, but the beach life of Aruba and Aruba is a little lacking in being a child friendly environment, though many have prospered there. Parents first, neighborhood second. These parent s have directed Joran down this maze of lies

[always 1]

That was really good Whiskey girl.

[SS]

Someone was looking for Jair....

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=147158312

[private eye]

Last comment. As a parent I have made many many mistakes with my children, but fortunately I have had no permanent loss or damage. But there were a couple of occassions when the child demonstrated behavior reflective of my error, and when that happened it cost me tremendously in time and effort, and money to get up and scramble to correct my child's behavior. Difficult, yes very, the older the person the harder it is to correct the behavior. And when I was told by one that they were 22, my answer was and,,,,,,,,,,,and kept on with my correcting. A lot more time effort and money than was needed if I had taught the teaching effectively, appropriately, and timely. But the parent has to be willing to invest whatever it takes to right a wrong teaching, and those corrections sometimes don't surface as a need during the childs childhood so to speak. Joran is at that point and I honestly feel if his parents would jump into action, remember that he is their child, their responsibility, and their blessing,forget everything except you never do wrong by doing the right thing, teach that to Joran, this could have a much more positive ending.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Seems you have gotten a bit angrier than when you posted this a few pages earlier PI. Can't say I blame you either way you say it hard or soft.....the kids a looser. 
++++++++++++


And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

Having read many of the National Enquirer articles that followed this story, I have to wonder if JVDS is away from home because he is really afraid of drug dealers, organized crime persons, and an assortment of others that might be embarrassed by the truth.  jmho

What options are available to Joran at this point in time?  A witness protection program?   

Is their protection for his family?  Mom?  Brothers?  Extended family?

Would the witch hunt begin again?

Would anyone believe him if he told the truth?

Is it possible to protect Joran from the truth?   Can the truth be ignored?

[Blue Moon]

Can't blame you .....what will it take to make them step up and be parents?.......or is it to late?

It's too late in my opinion.  They don't care and they never have.   In their mind they did step up and they protected their son.

Maybe Dr. Phil could schedule a show with the three of them:)

Tell the truth, present a defense based upon the truth attempting to mitigate his jail time, make him face the consequences, work on getting Beth to forgive him based upon him be forthright with the truth, apologize to the innocent in Aruba, etc. His 3 plus years of freedom have been a disaster by anyone's definition, and he seems to be falling further and further into a hole, so would jail time be so bad? Justice would further heal Beth, there is nothing he can do for Natalee, but who knows, people just might give him a second chance, at least it is a possibility. Does that appear to be a possibility if they keep pursuing the same old thing?

Anyway, don't let my outburst disrupt the group. And when I do please try to overlook me:)

P.E. do you know if Beth is moving forward with that Dutch attorney against Joran?  If so is this why Joran is staying holed up in Thailand?  By the way, you are being too kind to Momma and Pappa Sloot.  They deserve worse (MO).

[wreck]

Seems you have gotten a bit angrier than when you posted this a few pages earlier PI. Can't say I blame you either way you say it hard or soft.....the kids a looser. 
++++++++++++


And what I want Anita to clearly understand, in black and white, plain English, is that it is her and her husband whom are responsible for what is happening to Joran. All boys make mistakes, some bigger and more than others, and they depend on the wisdom of their parents to guide them. Sometimes parents are unable to influence and direct their children. We all are lacking as God's children.

However, this is not the case with Anita and Paulus. They are able to guide and influence Joran's actions. Anita and Paulus have admittedly guided Joran into this maze of responses to the consequences of his actions. He has admitted following their instructions.

He was and is not a throw away child. God certainly has not throiwn him away. What is sad is that it is his parents who are doing this to him. Their guidance, not lack of guidance, into doing the wrong thing at every corner of this incident is causing Joran to twist and turn in torment and will probably result in him harming even more innocent people. Their leadership and parenting is robbing Joran of his soul.

Having read many of the National Enquirer articles that followed this story, I have to wonder if JVDS is away from home because he is really afraid of drug dealers, organized crime persons, and an assortment of others that might be embarrassed by the truth.  jmho

What options are available to Joran at this point in time?  A witness protection program?   

Is their protection for his family?  Mom?  Brothers?  Extended family?

Would the witch hunt begin again?

Would anyone believe him if he told the truth?

Is it possible to protect Joran from the truth?   Can the truth be ignored?

Joran is not acting like he is "afraid" of anything. Just the opposite. He is acting like he has gotten away with it and no one can touch him.
Protection for his family??? It's his FAMILY that abetted him.
Witch hunt??? That implies they are innocent. They are most certainly NOT.
"If he told the truth????"  He has LIED from day 1.
Protect Joran from the truth????????  The TRUTH will damn him for etrnity.

What are you smoking?????? 

[Tamikosmom]

Last comment. As a parent I have made many many mistakes with my children, but fortunately I have had no permanent loss or damage. But there were a couple of occassions when the child demonstrated behavior reflective of my error, and when that happened it cost me tremendously in time and effort, and money to get up and scramble to correct my child's behavior. Difficult, yes very, the older the person the harder it is to correct the behavior. And when I was told by one that they were 22, my answer was and,,,,,,,,,,,and kept on with my correcting. A lot more time effort and money than was needed if I had taught the teaching effectively, appropriately, and timely. But the parent has to be willing to invest whatever it takes to right a wrong teaching, and those corrections sometimes don't surface as a need during the childs childhood so to speak. Joran is at that point and I honestly feel if his parents would jump into action, remember that he is their child, their responsibility, and their blessing,forget everything except you never do wrong by doing the right thing, teach that to Joran, this could have a much more positive ending.

Thank you PI.  My sentiments exactly.

However ... as Joran's parents have selfish underlying motives to prevent the truth pertaining to the event encompassing the morning Natalee Holloway went missing is never revealed ... maybe God will send a special person into Joran's life.  Maybe that special person will be instrument in setting Joran on the path ... the path that will lead the way to repentance and ... forgiveness from God and forgiveness from Natalee family.

There will still be the consequences to consider but ... Joran's  changed heart will imply he willing to take responsibility for his participation in regards to the "something bad" that happened to Natalee and ... the ongoing H--- on Earth he has put her family through for the past three years.

Janet

[private eye]

Last comment. As a parent I have made many many mistakes with my children, but fortunately I have had no permanent loss or damage. But there were a couple of occassions when the child demonstrated behavior reflective of my error, and when that happened it cost me tremendously in time and effort, and money to get up and scramble to correct my child's behavior. Difficult, yes very, the older the person the harder it is to correct the behavior. And when I was told by one that they were 22, my answer was and,,,,,,,,,,,and kept on with my correcting. A lot more time effort and money than was needed if I had taught the teaching effectively, appropriately, and timely. But the parent has to be willing to invest whatever it takes to right a wrong teaching, and those corrections sometimes don't surface as a need during the childs childhood so to speak. Joran is at that point and I honestly feel if his parents would jump into action, remember that he is their child, their responsibility, and their blessing,forget everything except you never do wrong by doing the right thing, teach that to Joran, this could have a much more positive ending.

Thank you PI.  My sentiments exactly.

However ... as Joran's parents have selfish underlying motives to prevent the truth pertaining to the event encompassing the morning Natalee Holloway went missing is never revealed ... maybe God will send a special person into Joran's life.  Maybe that special person will be instrument in setting Joran on the path ... the path that will lead the way to repentance and ... forgiveness from God and forgiveness from Natalee family.

There will still be the consequences to consider but ... Joran's  changed heart will imply he willing to take responsibility for his participation in regards to the "something bad" that happened to Natalee and ... the ongoing H--- on Earth he has put her family through for the past three years.

Janet

That person just like the Lord is probably already there for Joran. Joran just has to stop, look, see, and listen because God is surely walking along with him. It really is that simple Joran. You never do the wrong thing by doing the right thing.

[Observer]

This post caught my attention at RU 
    
WordsofWisdom wrote:


IMO Renee seems to be a strong woman, that takes NO crap from anyone, and doesn't give a fat rats ass what others think. She also seems to be a woman with a lot of integrity. I have seen nothing to dispel that belief. In fact your constant banter about her enforces my belief that she is on to something.
-----------------
xipp  PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:16 am     
She does not take crap, she delivered it. Laughing

Renee Gielen a women with integrity? 

[private eye]

Can't blame you .....what will it take to make them step up and be parents?.......or is it to late?

It's too late in my opinion.  They don't care and they never have.   In their mind they did step up and they protected their son.

Maybe Dr. Phil could schedule a show with the three of them:)

Tell the truth, present a defense based upon the truth attempting to mitigate his jail time, make him face the consequences, work on getting Beth to forgive him based upon him be forthright with the truth, apologize to the innocent in Aruba, etc. His 3 plus years of freedom have been a disaster by anyone's definition, and he seems to be falling further and further into a hole, so would jail time be so bad? Justice would further heal Beth, there is nothing he can do for Natalee, but who knows, people just might give him a second chance, at least it is a possibility. Does that appear to be a possibility if they keep pursuing the same old thing?

Anyway, don't let my outburst disrupt the group. And when I do please try to overlook me:)

P.E. do you know if Beth is moving forward with that Dutch attorney against Joran?  If so is this why Joran is staying holed up in Thailand?  By the way, you are being too kind to Momma and Pappa Sloot.  They deserve worse (MO).

She seems to be a little stalled on the lawsuit, I can't tell if it is emotionally tired or legal to be honest. I just figured he was enjoying the druggy side of life in Thailand. Kind of like thew song, looking for love in all the wrong places, substituting the Lord for love

[klaasend]

This post caught my attention at RU 
    
WordsofWisdom wrote:


IMO Renee seems to be a strong woman, that takes NO crap from anyone, and doesn't give a fat rats ass what others think. She also seems to be a woman with a lot of integrity. I have seen nothing to dispel that belief. In fact your constant banter about her enforces my belief that she is on to something.
-----------------
xipp  PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2008 8:16 am     
She does not take crap, she delivered it. Laughing

Renee Gielen a women with integrity? 

I have noticed that WoW gets very defensive when it comes to Renee.  I was wondering if they are one of the same? 

You know, like when Glenda and Siddalee get defensive when we talk about what a POS Julia Renfro is 

[Destiny]

Posted yesterday at Scrux and posted here as well.  Just wanted to repost it:

http://rockinroyalty.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html

FYI - Hiram on the right on the Venezuela trip prior to Natalee in Aruba:

I sincerely hope and pray that Joran's brothers do have the opportunity to pursue grand lives, free from the dark clouds of their brother and their parents.

Sadly, Joran has become a poster child for the attraction that gambling, drugs, porn, and 'easy' money has on young people.  He is not alone.  These things ruin so many young lives.  jmho

Children learn from those around them. 

Sometimes, no matter how good the example is, the child takes a different path in life. 

Sometimes, no matter how rough and rocky the example may have been, the child does well and prospers.

Sometimes, I think the best thing to do is keep the child from being run down by the train.  Teach the child to stay away from the tracks, teach the child some good rules to live by, and to pay attention when the train is coming.  It doesn't make any sense to take the child to the casino station or side of the tracks, and leave them all alone.  imho

Lots of people put pennies on the track when a train comes, and they admire the results.  Sometimes the pennies fly away, never to be found.  Sometimes, people are careless, and someone get's hurt.  mo

He definitely wasn't raised in the best "village" including well to do US people coming there on vacation with their vacation manners and morals. That could include me only I visited other places. No knock intended, but the beach life of Aruba and Aruba is a little lacking in being a child friendly environment, though many have prospered there. Parents first, neighborhood second. These parent s have directed Joran down this maze of lies

PI...You are amazing...please, don't ever think otherwise...just FORKIN' AMAZING!!!!!!

[private eye]

Joran, I have a heads up for you. Being a paid depository for a sperm bank does not equal a career in banking. And despite being a depository for a part of the repoductive cycle, it does not make you a producitve young man. No amount of drugs can restore you sense of self respect. Just say no.