Overboard by Patrick van der Eem - as reported by Frierljepper at BFN

[klaasend]

Just got the book "Overboord" written by Patrick. Full of interesting new details.

Quick one that immediately caught my eye is that Joran has told Patrick that he always kept his K Swiss shoes and even wore the same pair during the famous interrogation in prison when he slammed them on the table and bluffed about the size 12/14. The reason why he put so much pressure on the shoe story is that he was "so stupid, so stupid, to tell that story to the boys in the beginning" (i.e. the Kalpoes).

Happens to be exactly my storyline from a few posts back with Joran walking back barefoot from the HI. (and no, I'm not Patrick!).

Need to dash now. More to come.

[klaasend]

Some new data from car ride 13-01-2008

Joran says that he did not have intercourse with Natalee.

Joran defends Natalee against the apparent claims that he she had been in a “kick-off clinic” or was on drugs that night. He says he has never seen proof of these rumors.

Joran lies to Patrick that the text message said “Thanks for the lift, see you tomorrow”. Patrick doesn’t fall for this.

Joran says that the friend who helped him wanted to go to the police. Joran didn’t want that. Then the friend called a third person and after that told Joran to go home and that everything would be arranged. Joran says that he though the friend called for a boat.

Joran says that in hindsight he should have just told what happened but didn’t know at that time how big it would become.

[klaasend]

New data from car ride 15-01-2008

P Where is that phone booth near the Hyatt… or near the Marriott?

J Every hotel has one

P Oh. In the hotel.

J Each hotel has ONE.

P Yeah, I know. Inside.

J No, outside.

P In the lobby?

J No just outside. Near the swimming pool.

P Ok.

J They are everwhere….each hotel…it’s not normal how many of these phone booths are out there.

P No, no, no. Everywhere, I know, ok.
(…)

P But one thing I don’t understand.. Oke, she lies there and she’s dead, heh…. That friend…, heh…I know this friend is your father.. I know it Joran.

J No, no, no.

P Why not? Why would somebody who picks you up tell you “you have to go to school”. After you said that to me, I knew it.

J No

Joran again strongly denies that his father is involved.

Joran also says that the friend wasn’t there when it all happened (i.e. Natalee collapsed) and also that all events went so terribly fast.

Joran says about “the friend” that he has committed an atrako (= “raid”).

Joran again explains that he would never hurt a girl and would rather kick a man that is doing harm to a girl.

[klaasend]

Joran about the arrest and interrogations in December 2007

Joran says that they had something against Satish since he talked very nervously to his girlfriend in Suriname the first two days after the event.  Police even talked to the girlfriend.

Joran also says that (asshole) Deepak had mentioned in chat conversation that he had sex with her. Joran believes he has just been bragging.

Joran explains that they had nothing against him but even came up with a conversation between his brother and his girlfriend at the time who also was named Natalee.

Joran says he has remained silent all the time and looked the interrogators straight in the eyes.

The name Joran mentions is Daury Davens. Dutch mother, Aruban Father. Patrick thinks that Joran knows about the "Atrako" (=robbery) and that's the thing he holds against him. Patrick and Joran make plans to actually meet the guy who apparently is in NL at that time (Jan. '08).

[klaasend]

Joran speaks very highly of his father and (pretty convincingly) says that he is extremely honest and would have turned him. Joran also says that he has lied to both his parents and to his lawyers (who he called stupid).

The planned meeting with Daury doesn’t take place since Joran calls Patrick in the morning to explain that Daury had just left the country that day.

Joran provides some interesting details about Daury:
• He was only a year in NL
• Joran knows him since he was 5 years old (!)
• He has “business” that require him to fly between Aruba and NL
• He has people working for him and recently an American woman who works for him has been caught in possession of cocaine. Daury had freaked out, since he was very afraid she would talk.

[klaasend]

Translation of the shoe story:

(...)
I ask him why he got rid off his shoes.: "That only makes things more complicated?"

"But I thought that something like that would make the whole thing more believable. I know, it's stupid, but in the end I did get a kick out of it", Joran clarifies.

P. The only thing I believe is that there is something with these shoes that you don't want people to see.

J. No, of course not. I still have these shoes. I just had told the boys (note FJ: think it's the Kalpoes) that I left the shoes behind. So stupid... so stupid!

P. Yeah, that was really stupid, man! But I just don't get it, you know. The penny doesn't drop. Why would someone do a thing like that? And how thorough I try to think this through about why I would do such a thing, what do I want to achieve with that? That's only provoking more attention. And even if I'd done such a thing, I would have never told them.

J. No, but look, that's exactly it. It was just a load of bullshit with the police. That thing had emerged then. I even have put on the same K-Swiss shoes when I was with the police... during the interrogations I put them on the table. And then these were size 14 and I had told them that I have size 12, you know. Exactly the same shoes... extactly the same...I put on the table.

P Oh. Hahaha.

J Bam! In front of the detectives. Then during the interrogations, Patrick, then I told him: "Yes, those shoes were just like these." Just to screw them for a moment, you know? Then he said: "Take off your shoes!" And this is all on camera, you know? Three cameras were there in that room and then I said: "I'm not going to take off my shoes." (... then Joran talks about his lawyer and that he in the end smashed his shoes on the table...).

[klaasend]

New conversation from P275:

J. Yeah. That indeed has been a pitty, Patrick.

P. Yeah. This makes it all more complicated you know?

J. Yes. Of course I haven't know the full story, you know?

P. What do you mean, never knew the full story?

J. Yeah, I knew of course everything that happened, but hey... of course I can't talk about that. That shouldn't be possible? You can't put those other people at risk.

P. What other people... I though there was only one, wasn't it?

J. Yes... Daury. I don't want to bring him into trouble.

P. And your father knows it as well, man.

J. My father knows absoletely nothing. My father has...he knows nothing about this... He doesn't know a thing about the whole event. That's the worst thing of all. That man would die, he wouldn't be able to cope with this. He couldn't even harm a fly. My father is weak.

[klaasend]

P284

Range Rover, 4th trip, Wednesday January 16th, 2008, early evening. Dumped at sea.

P. Just dumping the body there, Joran, just throwing that girl overboard only a few hundred meters from Aruba and that it doesn't wash ashore, is to my knowledge extremely remarkable.

J. Yes.

P. Then there should have been something that caught her or whatever. I tell you, there are many fish out there, you know?

J. Sharks

P. OMG, guy!

J. Yes.

P. These are huge, boy!

J. Yeah. I saw them. I have them...I also have my diving licence.

P. What a fish. I used to with my dad, you know? He had a wire, a long line, and euh...those green fish, like this, with that green head. And my father fighting, you know? And at a certain moment, with a boat nearby, you just see them swim and suddenly in one go another fish arrives, bam...chop...line quiet. Only the head is stuck on it.

J. That is siiiick!

P. That's why I tell you, those animals are...that fish is really huge, man, you know? It has such a head, man...

J. That is siiiick!

P. ...and the rest is entirely gone.

J. That is siiiick.

P. You know? So...yeah/

J. You know it.

P. You got lucky, you know. Those two aspects for you is euh... is terrific, you know? That she didn't wash ashore and that they didn't get Daury.

J. Not even interrogated, not once.

[GBMW]

I've been translating a bit....I'll do some more later today. I don't think this has been translated before...don't want to do double work . I'll check the other translations a bit & see what I'll translate later on.

Mind you: English isn't my first language & translating ain't my job.


Figuring out Patrick decieved him

Page 291

The promo’s couldn’t have gone unnoticed by Joran. He sends me the following message at 21:30: ‘Apparently I’ve been secretly taped for months and I’ve confessed according to him we’ll see.’

Instead of pointing the finger at me; I decide to play him out.

‘Goddamn, with whom have you been talking man?’ ‘How could you have been so stupid?’ I asked him snappy when I called back. ‘Do you know what this means for our plans? What have you been saying on Aruba?’ This attack confuses him. He persisted in saying it was not possible. He hadn’t told anybody anything. Two minutes later I got the next message: ‘But I’m not stupid I would never do that’. And 18 minutes later Joran is still unworried about the whole thing an seems to be in a good mood. His message: ‘I always protect myself don’t worry I’m not stupid. Going into town now know I’ll be f***ing’.
It seemed he still didn’t suspect me. But that wouldn’t last long. It was only a matter of time before he would figure things out. At 22:11 he apparently has read the leaked interview and he texts: ‘Swa, what a shame. Just read the transcript which was sent to me with a conversation between the head prosecutor and de Vries. It’s a good thing I’m protecting myself.’
From this message it seems Joran still doesn’t seem to have figured things out and has no idea how to respond yet. He can only hide behind a general defense like: ‘It’s good I protect myself’. If he really fooled me all that time, like he claimed later on, then he would have texted me: ‘Man, I was only trying to impress you. Look bigger, you know.’ But Joran needs more time to figure that out.
Why wouldn’t I just tell him? I was sick & exhausted from it all & wanted him to know who got him. So I called & informed him. Now he knew enough and his first reaction was a text saying he had lied. He texted at 22:20 ‘Bo ta conja swa haha bon cu ma ganja’. (You’re f***ing unbelievable man haha it’s a good thing I lied.). Well, what else is there to say if you don’t want to be screwed? The easiest defense would be to say I’ve lied. The next night, when more time had passed, Joran changed his story again in the talkshow of Pauw & Witteman.



Chapter 21

Page 293

We all watched Pauw & Witteman that Friday night when Joran claimed that he lied about everything to impress me. Pauw & Witteman made a big thing about getting Joran on the phone by accident. That looked like a spontaneous reaction from him. But his texts from Thursday evening implied Joran played them. He just made up a new defence that the whole country would hear.
‘It’s so stupid, so stupid. It’s really stupid. I said something, something I shouldn’t have said’ said Joran; contradicting his two texts from the night before where he ‘wasn’t stupid’. Yes, that he had told me wasn’t smart at all, but it wasn’t a lie. I had been his best friend, buddy & teacher for the last six months.
‘It will be easy to proof that what I’ve said isn’t true’ added Joran in the programme. He send me a text at 23:23 ‘1-1’. He thought we’re playing at the same level.


Page 295

The day before the show I still had contact with Joran. The texts kept coming and appeared to be like he was dealing with the feelings he was betrayed. I think he didn’t understand half of it until the show was actually aired. A day before the show he send me the following text at 19:25: ‘Hahaha still want to rent a house together? :p I really like you I mean that’. And 20 minutes later he texts: ‘You’re good but I bluffed you….so yeah…we’ll see’.


Threatening Paul van der Sloot


Page 296

Peter R. was angry with me. I had called Jorans father that morning. When he answered, I said: ‘Goodmorning mr. Van der Sloot. Today is the day…’ And then he hung up. I had wanted to add: “the day you see what kind of manners your son has’. But I didn’t get the chance. Apparently he had complained about this; that I had threatened him. Possibly my words could have been interpreted that way but that’s really not how it was meant. I only wanted him to know it was a done deal. But Peter didn’t agree, to put it mildly, with that strategy. I promised him I wouldn’t call mr. Van der Sloot anymore and that was that.

[GBMW]

Quotes about dad / family

Page 131 2nd ride 13-01

P: But your father & mother don’t know anything?
J: No.
P: Good for them, you know.
J: Yes.
P: Don’t tell your brothers, right? Be careful (as in I don’t want you to tell them….give them that burden).
J: But I treat my brothers very well.
P: But I don’t think you should burden them with this secret.
J: One should never tell.
P: They are too young.
J: Yeah, but I also thought…I can’t do this to my family…I didn’t do anything but…
P: It’s too difficult.
J: Yeah, yeah, yeah…look, eventually, looking back…I’ll honestly tell you…maybe I should have told.
P: But…yeah.
J: I couldn’t know it would become this big thing, but at that moment I thought….my father, I can’t my father…no, that’s family, he’s a judge.
P: He’s a judge.
J: I can’t do that, he will lose his job. I really love my parents.
P: Of course, but everyone loves his parents, Joran!
J: I have problems with my parents, yeah, sometimes I talk to people, sometimes I fight with my dad, sometimes I fight with my brothers, but in the end you’re family.
P: 100.000 percent. Family is family, man. Family only goes that far, you know.
J: Yes.

Page 176 3rd ride 15-01

P: But there is one thing I don’t get. Ok, she’s lying there dead…that friend….I know that friend is your father. I know, Joran.
J: No, no, no.
P: Why not? Why would someone say… if he comes to pick you up: “You have to go to school”. When you told me that I knew.
J: No.
P: Look, Joran, and I’ve told you from the beginning…I've also talked about this with my girlfriend..you know. And I’ve told my girlfriend…if people called me in that kind of situation..I would help them as well.
J: Me too, me too, me too! But I’m telling you Patrick, my father wouldn’t and that’s the truth. I went to Aruba and there were little groups of guys with whom we hung out with…..from when we were young you know. And those guys, they still call me now and then…but they don’t have that much money…they can’t do much.


A bit later on:
P: But what about your dad…when you got home, didn’t he notice something about you?
J: My father is sleeping….Patrick, it was about 03:00 am or something like that…04:00 am.


Page 204 about Pauw & Witteman show January

One of Jorans younger brothers was incredibly shocked by what Joran had done. This brother yelled at Joran and said he never wanted to talk to him again and ran off with tears of rage in his eyes. Neither of the parents went after the younger brother. They stayed to comfort Joran.


Page 226
P: But your father, being a judge, I know..your father he doesn’t want to know.
J: No, of course not.
P: He doesn’t want to know. You’re his son. I know that he must have said once: Joran, whether it’s true or not, I don’t want to know.
J: No, he didn’t even say that!
P: No?
J: No. Not even that.
P: But what did he say then?
J: Yeah, but Patrick, I even lied to my lawyer and my parents.

Page 275

J: Yeah, but that would have been a shame, Patrick.
P: Yeah, it makes it even more difficult you know?
J: Yeah, and I’ve never known everything, you know.
P: What do you  mean, never knew everything?
J: Yeah, I knew what happened, but you know…I can’t say anything about that. You can’t do that. You can’t jeopordize those other people right?
P: What other people…there was only one right?
J: Yes……Daury. I don’t want to cause trouble for him.
P: And your father knows as well, man.
J: My father doesn’t know at all. My father has….he knows nothing. He knows nothing about any of this. That’s the worst part of it all. That man would die, he wouldn’t be able to deal with this. He wouldn’t hurt a fly. My father is weak.

Page 280

“No thank God my father doesn’t know anything, really. I don’t think that man would be able to live with that. He believes for a 100% that”… I interrupt Joran and ask him if his father ever had doubts.
“Never, never, never and neither did my mother”. Yeah, they’re really special people, I tell him but Joran doesn’t even hear me. He’s in his own world all of a sudden.

J: But there is no one, no one I’ve ever known to be more honest than my dad.
P: Ow.
J: But my mother, my mother can lie.
P: But anyone can lie, man.
J: Yeah, ok, but my father can’t. That’s why, that man should have been a judge.
P: Yeah, I feel really bad for him, you know.
J: That man is really, like I said he would never hurt a fly. He really believes in justice, you know.
P: No, but that….look that’s what they do? This is their passion.
J: Yeah, but what my father said: if he would ever think that, that I would know something, or knew more, then he would be the first to drop me off at the police.
P: Yeah, but you know, I’m going to give you a fact. That if your father can’t lie, then you lie. Why? He brought you that phone didn’t he? This is a bad joke…
J: What did you say?
P: I said: a bad joke… He brought you that phone.
J: Yeah ok…but he didn’t lie about that.
P: He never mentioned it either.
J: I think if you would have asked him, he would have said so.
P: If they would have asked him he would have said so? That can’t be Joran. Then he would loose his license, man.
J: Yeah, No, then he will say…that he did it for me.
P: No, he can’t, you know.
J: He will, really! My father can’t lie, Patrick. I even had to tell him how to do it.
P: You know, I euh…. Joran…
J: Step by step. And then he still forgets….credit for the phone.

[GBMW]

The moment he told he kept his shoes on: the 29th of January. They drove to Antwerpen that day.

Page 272

I ask him why he got rid of his shoes: 'That only makes it more difficult right?'
"But I thought that would make it more credible. I know, it's stupid, but eventually I do get a kick out of it" Joran adds.

The following is written in the book like it's from a cartranscript; so I think it's on tape (not shown in the show).

P: But the only thing I'm thinking is that there is something with the shoes you don't want them to see.

J: No, of course not. I've still got those shoes. I only told those guys that I left the shoes. So stupid...so stupid!

P: Yeah, that was really stupid, man! I don't get it you know? It doesn't work for me, the quarter won't drop. Why would anyone do such a thing? And no matter how long I think about it, of why would I do that, what would I accomplish with it? That's only asking for more attention. And if I would have done that, I wouldn't even tell them.

J: No, but look, that's just it. There was a lot of talking with the police. It came forward there. I even put on the same K-Swiss shoes at the police...during questioning and then put them on the table. And then those shoes turned out to be a size 14 and I had told them I have a size 12, you know? Exactly the same shoes...exactly the same...I put them on the table.

P: Oh, hahaha.

J: Bam! In front of the interrogators. When, during questioning, Patrick, I told him: "Yeah, those shoes were the same as these". Once, to f*** around with them you know? Then he said: 'take of your shoes!'. And this is all on camera right? Three camera's were in that room and then I said: 'I'm not going to take off my shoes".
And my lawyer was sitting in a corner at the back but I wasn't allowed to talk to him. He said: 'Take your shoes off or I'll take them off for you" and he doesn't say a thing, you know. So I said: "What's this?" So that cop: "Yeah, take off your shoes or I'll take them off for you". So I went: Allright; he's showing off, he's showing off, I'll take off my shoes, I'll take of my shoes. Wham!!! I slam the shoes on the table there. I was like: "Take a good look at my shoes if yoiu want too". And yeah, it's just f***ing around with them. But I was f***ing around with them. They were cancerfaggots (GBMW: literally translated...don't know an equal English term and don't want to find out ...no doubt you get the picture with what he's trying to say), Patrick.

[GBMW]

Some Daurystuff from the book...


And Joran being protective of girls: read it carefully because it's about the only nice thing he says about females. Ah no...his mother is sweet (and at the moment I'm not sure whether he actually said that or confirmed Patricks comment about that). The rest: it's all whores, bitches...how he uses them, chats them up, how he fucks & screws around with girls (mostly met online). Patrick mentions in his book the only woman he talks about with respect is his grandmother.
Sorry for the language....but I'm only using Jorans words so I hope I'm forgiven.

Page 177, part of  3rd ride 15-01

……. (there is a part before this)

J: But he doesn’t live on Aruba anymore. He’s not on Aruba at the moment.
P: He lives in the Netherlands?
J: Yes.
P: That’s only easier, man. You have to tell me. I want to see him.
J: Yes.
P: I want to know who he is. I don’t have to talk to him about this, but if I see him, then I know if he will be able to use this against us.
J: Yeah, one would see that right away.
P: I can see that, you know. Then I can tell you how I feel. But I think it’s dangerous for him to be walking around with this and certainly for later on, when there is a lot of money involved and he sees we’ve got lots of money, you know?
J: Yes.
P: I give him one chance and then he’ll get a bullet.
J: Yeah, I agree with you, but…
P: But was he there then? (GBMW: I have no idea what Patrick is talking about; can’t figure that out…if Daury disposed of Natalee…he should have been there right? Maybe this is about something else)
J: No, Patrick, of course not.
P: Oh.
J: Of course not, of course not. It all happened so quickly, so quickly.

…….. (there is a part here I haven’t translated)


J: In only 2,5 hours together you can’t someone…
P: No, no, no, no.
J: …kill & do something. Everyone knows that, that can’t happen! Or you have to be a professional, uhmmm, thing. But, Patrick, I know him, I’ve lived on Aruba for 18 years aw well, you know.
P: Yeah, of course, you know people. But what you’re asking of this person….Joran..
J: I didn’t ask.
P: You didn’t ask?
J: I didn’t ask, Patrick.
P: He offered?
J: He offered.
P: Unbelievable.
J: He saw me there…
P: Yeah, all those emotions, devastated.
J: …and he knew as well…I was going to the US and…
P: Yeah, he wanted to save you.
J: And he thought like…and he couldn’t have known it would be this big. I’ve talked to him about this later on, Patrick. We’ve talked for nights with a whiskeybottle…
P: And how old is he?…about your age?
J: No, 25.
P: 25! But be carefull he? If they drink: I’ll get that pendeo (that bastard). I want to see him, Joran. You’ve got to…I want to see him, yeah? I just want to see him once.
J: Once is ok.
P: Once I want to see him, you know, no more.
J: Yeah, that’s ok.
P: Yeah? Call him, we’ll go and see him tomorrow. I want to see him, just see him once, you know. You don’t have to say anything. Just say: “Hey, a friend of mine from Arnhem…good friend…cool car…have fun you know.”
J: Yeah, I’ll just tell him, let’s have a drink, have lunch.
P: Yeah, right? Eat a bit, we’ll have some dinner, talk a bit, you know.
J: No, he’ll likes that as well.
P: Yeah, he would?
J: Yeah.
P: Of course, man, we’ll mention nothing, and we’ll blow a bit and…it’s cool. And when he’s gone, then I’ll talk to you & I’ll give you my view about that boy, because I can read people, you know. I look at those people and how they act.
J: Yeah but he has, he has done a atrako (robbery) once.
P: Yeah, but that’s something different than this..
J: Yeah, of course.
P: You understand? And I don’t like it if people have something against you and they can use it.
J: No, ok. But yeah, I think he has shown that he would do that for me and then without talking…but do you know what’s the most bizarre?
P: But they’ve never arrested him in that case?
J: It’s so bizar. Through anything, you know, all my friends… But hey…I played it very well..in the beginning. Because in the beginning I thought, boy, I can tell them whatever they want, you know, because if they can’t get evidence against me, heck…
P: Yeah, then it’s like, then it’s like…
J: ….they won’t screw me.
P: No.
J: They can’t do anything and eventually they’ve got nothing. But hey, they even haven’t questioned him. Of all my girlfriends, all my friends everything! They’ve got files. They have questioned 15 girls! Exactly. The wanted to know in which positions I fucked them, Patrick! Can you imagine for those girls? Those girls even told me: ‘Joraaan, the police have guts’ you know.
P: Whahaha
J: My father and my mother…my father reads these things as well, you know. My father is a lawyer as well. Cono, man.
P: Unbelievable isn’t it?
J: They did everything, but this boy, it’s just….really…
P: But wh….
J: I’ve really been lucky.
P: Yeah, but how far did he take her, man. He must have done a really good job, you know?
J: Yeah, but this boy knows how….
P: But how far has he…Does he sail often? He knows a lot about boats, he knows a lot about the ocean right?
J: Yeah, he’s got his own sail…licence…thing.
P: Sailevidence, yeah. That boy knows what he’s doing then, yeah. Has he made her heavier to make her sink?
J: No, I don’t think so.
P: You don’t know?
J: No.
P: He never told you how he’s done that?
J: Yeah, of course he did, he has….
P: How has he done that?
J: He just went into the ocean, far, and then he threw her in.
P: Just threw her off?
Joran nodds
P: Like that?
Joran nodds again.
P: Then you were really lucky, man.
J: Yeah.
P: I swear, you were really lucky.
J: I was.
P: Then you were really lucky. If he was that stupid that he’s done it like that, you know? Then you’ve got a big guardian angel hanging over you.
J: I could sleep just fine you know, that night. I went home that night and I could just…I just..
P: But you really didn’t hurt her, right, Joran?
J: Patrick, I swear.
P: The day I find out you hurt her I’ll kill you, right!
J: Yeah, you’ll kill me.
P: Then I could live with it as well, you know.
J: Patrick, then you will kill me. Patrick, you should see me with girls. I’m so sweet as can be!
P: No, I don’t know you, I don’t believe that, that you f*** her and that you f*** her in the ass.
J: Of course, of course.
P: Ok, but I do that as well. 100%.
J: 100%.
P: And slap her on the bum, well, she sure can get that!
J: Yeah.
P: And pull the hair a bit, that can be done as well, you know.
J: Yeah. I would never hurt a girl! Before…when I see a guy… hitting a f***ing girl…then I’ll get that guy..
P: Then he’ll get two…yeah, I agree.
J: What do you think?
P: Then he can get some as well right?
J: Yeah.
P: Because that doesn’t even have to be your own girlfriend.
J: Then I, I don’t even have to know her.
P: Once in a while I do see, you know, then I see those guys being so awful towards their bitch.
J: You can’t do that!
P: No, man. But…you can speak up, but then you’ll get a mouth full of that bitch even.
J: Yeah.
P: You know?
J: Yeah, do you understand that thing of me, Patrick? It’s very difficult for me as well.
P: But Joran, I know for sure, it must be a relieve you’re able to tell your story.
J: Oh Patrick, you have no idea how I felt yesterday.
P: And I’ll tell you, I’ve given your story a place, man. And the first time you wanted to tell me….I knew I wanted you too but I couldn’t place it yet. Now the case is done, yeah, it’s also more easy for me. But I don’t want you to go on television anymore, Joran.
J: I won’t do that anymore.
P: I don’t want you to do that..
J: No, we’re done with that.
P: It’s not good for yourself, you know?
J: Yeah, I only did it because I got 5000 Euro for it.
P: Yeah, of course….easy money. Money is money, man.

Joran has mentioned the name he said he would take to the grave by now (mentioned; I’m not skipping anything from the book here).

P: But I want to, I want to meet that guy, you have to call him & tomorrow all of us we’ll ride up there, man.
J: Ok.
P: We’ll take William with us, we’ll make it a nice day, you know. Then he’ll say, oh fun…fight, you know!
J: I can call him now.
P: Yeah…just call him, make an appointment with him for tomorrow, we’ll go there, man.
J: Ahhh, I don’t have his number in this phone, I’ve got it in the old phone.
P: Ok, all right. That’s no problem, right?
J: I’ll give him a call tonight.

[GBMW]

Page 231
……

P: I’m on your side, allright? I want to protect you, protect me, protect everything. And that’s why I want to meet this boy, Joran.
J: Yeah.
P: Joran, 20.000 Euros is nothing for me. And if I think it’s needed…well let it be.
J: But I think you’ll agree with me it won’t be necessary and that we’ll…
P: I don’t know, I’m not judging. I just want to be around that boy for a day.. Talk with him for a day, see what he says, how he acts and then I’ll give you my opinon of him. But my opinion isn’t…euh…final. Yours is important as well…. together we’ll make that decision.
J: Yeah, he’s never really comfortable anymore…around me.
P: Yeah, but that’s the problem, Joran. I’m afraid it’s a problem, you know? But I’m telling you Joran, I have a wife and kids, Joran. I’ll be killing for you (GBMW: he says it in a expression; don’t know the English one). Think Joran, think about this really well! And I know you won’t talk & I’ll be teaching you in the meantime. Yeah, I’ll make sure you’re on holiday & I’ll be off and then it’ll happen. Yeah, it will happen. I know. When you’re talking like that about him I’m getting a bad feeling about this boy. But we’ll see ok? And if I think it’s the safest way…it’ll have to happen, man. I can’t help it. Whatever he might have done for you.
J: Yeah.
P: But more important things are about to happen. And you shouldn’t feel to uncomfortable about it…really Joran…really.
J: I’ve thought about it myself a little bit, but hey, what do you want?
P: No, no, no, but that’s why, it’s my time now. My time has come.


Page 239
……..
P: How long has he been here?
J: He’s been here a year, Patrick.
P: Oh, he’s just here?
J: Yeah, but he’s got businesses, Patrick. He’s got some things….he flies from Holland to Aruba & he’s got a few people…
P: …who work for him?
J: …who work for him..and all. And he’s got…euh... Recently in the US..that woman that worked for him was arrested as well.
P: With what?
J: With coke.
P: Ah..boy oh boy.
J: Yeah, so he freaked out, but he said that woman won’t talk…he said she won’t blab about him.
P: Oh, because that was his as well.
J: Well, I’m not certain if that was his. At least he was involved somehow.
P: Ok ok..but I don’t need to know that, I’m not interested in that, you know. But was he a stud…oh ..he’s not here for college then right?
J: No, not for college.
P: No. What kind of business does he have on Aruba then?
J: No company, he just…euh…
P: Oh, he has no company….just does his thing over there.
J: …just his things & he’s not someone with a lot of money, you know? But he’s making his own & you can trust his word, Patrick, you’ll see!
P: Ok.
J: When you meet him; you’ll see.
P: Yeah, yeah.
J: He’s someone; when he says he’ll do something he’ll do it.
P: No, I believe that.
J: Look, if he wanted to talk about me, Patrick…I’ve thought about that as well, if he wanted to talk, he would have done that.
P: No, he can’t talk.
J: He can’t …himself…he will screw himself.


Page 241
………

J: Her name was….a girlfriend of that Natalee. Not even that Natalee, you know? And I get there, right? So I first call a friend of mine. Really a good friend of mine, Jaime. I know.
P: Yeah.
J: He never would have left me alone there….we would have gone together with that girl. Then it would…
P: Yeah.
J: …maybe it’s a good thing it happened that way. And then euh…. I called that Deepak & Satish.  …….. (a big part of the rest of this quote was in the show…)

Page 246
J: She’s just lying there. She’s not doing anything. So he’s saying: ‘what happened?’ I said: “I don’t know man. I think she had too much too drink’


Page 252 (from 16-01)
…..

Look, I would never mention his name. That’s the problem, you know, people telling names. They will talk to those people. They will talk to them, says Joran, who is pointing out what the police would do. ‘They will connect them with other people again. They know nothing. What they’ve got…they’ve got, and what they don’t have…they don’t have. That’s how it works’.
I realise immediately there is no point in checking ‘Daury Davens’. Joran is telling me all of this to give an subtle apology for making up the name. And in his eyes I would be the first to understand this code.

[GBMW]

Page 98

……

Men usually don’t talk flattering about women when they’re amongst each other. We all use words we wouldn’t use if we were in mixed company. But with Joran it seemed like he meant it for real. As if he would talk like that to women as well and not only to his friends. That lingo came back easily for me. It’s not difficult to fall back in old habits; it’s difficult to get rid of them. Just like smoking, once you’ve started it’s difficult to quit.
‘They’re all easy I bet’, I said once in a while. Although I have to say I’ve never seen Joran with a girl. He told me with how many women he chatted online with and that the met this girl or that girl through Hyves (GBMW: a Dutch version of a site like Myspace) and had fucked her. Honestly I’ve never seen it get that far. There were chicks in the US he chatted with and who wanted him to go there. When we went out he never saved phone numbers or made the first move.

 

Page 36 from 1st ride 10-01-2008
…….

P: I’ve read on the internet the prosecutor wants to make the evidence against you public?
J: Yeah, yeah…that..
P: Is that possible?
J: No, that can’t happen.
P: That can’t happen!
J: No, it’s all bullshit. Just, look Patrick, what we shouldn’t forget he… is that a lot of people, ego’s have been hurt in this case.
P: Yeah,  they were screwed.
J: Yeah, they’ve f***ing spent 10 million dollars on this case & what do they have to show for?
P: Air.
J: Air, they’ve got nothing. They’ve arrested us twice and they say they still think that we did it, they still are saying that actually.
P: Yeah, but yeah, that’s not allowed, right?
J: No, but yeah, that Mos, that f***ing prosecutor, he said it literally. Like: ‘we don’t have evidence against you, but hey, we do think you did it’.
P: What do you think yourself, Joran?
J: Yeah…but even that judge he, Patrick, unbelievable man, f***ing judge. I’m sitting there in front of him the first time and I haven’t said anything. And that second time…hearing is over…the judge: ‘Do you want to say something?’ And I was like: ‘I would like to go home’. And if I had gotten that I would have gotten 30 days extra. And the judge was like: ‘You’re not telling the truth! I was like: ‘I’m not telling the truth?. I have nothing, nothing to declare anymore’. And then he said to me: ‘I think you know more’. That what the judge said to me. I thought ‘this is going bad!’. The only thing I said was: ‘Sorry, but I think it’s really bad you as a judge are speculating’. And then we sat down & my lawyer said as well: ‘yeah done’.
P: Cool, man.
J: And then my lawyer came, I was thinking, ‘that is so great you said that at the end’. Me: ‘Ok’. But, you know, we had a bad feeling because we did talk to him like that. I was like, cono!.
P: He doesn’t come with facts, speculations don’t count.
J: No, then he said something like yeah..
P: What did you tell him? ‘I speculate with poker all day! Sometimes I win, sometimes I loose. Haha!’.
J: Speculating is always an option there yeah.
P: Yeah, isn’t it?
J: That’s not really speculating right?
P: No, not really.
J: That’s just telling the truth or flat out lie. Done! That’s the only thing you can do, otherwise you’re screwed.


Page 280 from the last ride; 29th of january

……

P: I know where you live, man…you can’t do that in 15 minutes. What did you….ran?
J: Yeah, of course, why…otherwise I would talk shit, they’ve checked my phone, I’ve called nobody else. Only the boys, Deepak & Satish are the only ones I’ve called.
P: Yeah, but you walked to the payphone, you could have called a third person from the payphone.
J: Yeah, but I didn’t. The less people the better.
P: Yeah, I can understand that.

[klaasend]

Posted at BFN:

Some more translated snippets; Fierljepper did the green part...I added it because it was what came next.

Page 214

P: Joran we need someone, yeah. We’re going to Enschede on Wednesday, then I’ll show you the building. We need someone.
J: Alright, but were can we get them, how can we get them the easiest?
P: You need to start using the capacities you have, yeah.
J: Yeah, but that’s what I always do. That’s what I do with those bitches. Those bitches are crazy. I mean, I tell them stuff, the don’t want anything, they’re just horny, they just want to f***. All of them! I drive them crazy and then I just use them to f***.
P: A thousand percent, yeah.
J: I use them all. The only thing I want is to f***, f*** you. I’m not going to talk to you. I talk sweet but…I’ll talk to you…but only so I can f*** you.

It’s over now. He can relax and focus on making money. Joran trusts me 100%, he says. I’ve given it a place, I tell him. And again the story comes up of the man I killed. It comes so quickly that I would even believe it, so why wouldn’t he?

SMS text of Joran, from a day later in the afternoon: ‘I want to be you :p you do know that right!’

The car stops in front of MK’s house. Joran gets out & I tell him that I will be back in about 25 minutes. ‘Order some food.’ I drove away and left him behind so he could talk with MK. When I drove away; I collapsed. Oh f***, she is somewhere in the ocean. That reality crushed my world. It’s awful to think about something that awful; but it’s even worse when you picture it so clearly. How calm he sat beside me when he told me about Natalee. My hands were shaking when I got a cigarette from the package en tried to lit it. I didn’t get everything. Another ride would have to be taken. He didn’t confess what caused her death. And I had to find out who had helped him. I would have to go back into the car to get that out. I didn’t want to think about that. Don’t think, just keep sniffing! Then be completely numbed.

When the crew got the tapes from the equipment I walked away from the car and pulled myself together. This touched me right to the bottom of my soul. The only thing I could think of was a beautiful blond girl that was disposed. Slowly sinking to the bottom of the ocean. All alone.

…..



Page 274 - 280

….

During this ride Joran claims that the distance from the beach to his house is no more then 10 to 15 minutes walking. When I question this, he offers to walk it together sometime. You walk, ‘vap, vap’ (GBMW: don’t even know what that means in Dutch…so can’t know what it’s in English LOL), says Joran. Well, I won’t try with him, but there will be plenty of people who will check this personally; from Fisherman’s Huts to the old police station near Firmin’s bar.

P: Why did you say that that puta (Deepak) pick you up? Why don’t you say you walked, eh?
J: No, I shouldn’t have said anything.
P: I’m trying to learn from this. I want to learn as much as possible from this, you know?
J: Yeah.
P: It’s a huge process, you know? There is so much wisdom from your side.
J: Yeah, ok.
P: How is it that they didn’t find out?
J: Yeah, ok, but the most important thing for us is that….the most important thing is just the misinformation, you know? I think now, when I think about it, what you want an answer too is…
P: But what do I want answered then?
J: How the process…learning from the process.
P: Yeah, that’s very strange.
J: Yeah, but what I think is the most important thing, is that…what I would advise everyone is just don’t talk!
P: No, but look, that I get. But you did talk in the beginning, you know? That makes it even more difficult.
J: Yeah, ok, but I was talking because, look….other people that talked, and they said things and I’m confronted with those things. And a lot of those things weren’t true! And I can sit there quietly and say nothing but at that moment I didn’t have a lawyer with me, he, in the room. I was questioned alone. And I was told that those things on paper…if I don’t react to that…even with being still…that it’s considered as the truth.
P: That’s not true.
J: No, that’s correct., but if nothing is said then that’s the only thing the judge will read. Then must….can I still tell my story in front of a judge, because the judge is totally different from the Criminal Investigation Department.
P: Yeah, that’s completely different.
J: I should have done that & I’ve always talked well with the judge, short but strong, you know? I’ve always tried that. And I’ve always succeeded.
P: But that’s why he let you go the last time, right?
J: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s true.

We’re 30 minutes from the Belgian border & I warn Joran again that he has to throw his weed away. Joran gives me a cd he made with a couple of songs of Morales on it. Then he continues on his own:

 J: Yeah, but that would have been a shame, Patrick.
P: Yeah, it makes it even more difficult you know?
J: Yeah, and I’ve never known everything, you know.
P: What do you  mean, never knew everything?
J: Yeah, I knew what happened, but you know…I can’t say anything about that. You can’t do that. You can’t jeopardize those other people right?
P: What other people…there was only one right?
J: Yes……Daury. I don’t want to cause trouble for him.
P: And your father knows as well, man.
J: My father doesn’t know at all. My father has….he knows nothing. He knows nothing about any of this. That’s the worst part of it all. That man would die, he wouldn’t be able to deal with this. He wouldn’t hurt a fly. My father is weak.

I tell Joran that I can hardly believe that, because a boy like Daury would never have the wisdom to tell Joran he has to go to school the next morning. But I’ve tried that angle before, and I notice Joran is starting to get annoyed by it. But he is restraining himself and says: ‘I also knew that that had to happen. I also went to the casino the next night. I just went gambling, Patrick. And I even won!’
It’s time now to confront Joran with the point that will be the most crucial in all of this.

P: But how did you know for sure she was dead, Joran? You can’t….People can get in a coma, he?
J: I didn’t know for sure, but I was frightened to death….
P: No, that I understand, I really understand you were scared. The first time I saw a body…that wasn’t a pretty body, wasn’t nice. He wasn’t lying there nicely. Really! Otro kaminda! (seen for the first time) And that, kid, you freak out! But you need to start thinking rationally, there has to be a solution. And then you make choices, sometimes they’re right and sometimes they’re wrong, you know?
J: Yeah, indeed.
P: But did you really feel her? (GBMW: not a really good translation…don’t know how to put it in English properly right now…bit tired…sorry!)
J: No, but it didn’t look good!
P: How didn’t it look good then?
J: Just she had shaking and stuff and
P: Just…shaking badly?
J: Yeah, I don’t know, just, very…Yeah.
P: Yeah, I don’t know. I wasn’t there, Joran. I’m not attacking you, he, Joran….I’m on your side, he?
J: Yeah, I know.

How well did he check it? Oh my God, maybe she was in a coma when they disposed her. Joran and his friend were in a stone's throw of the Marriott with 450 rooms. How many doctors were sleeping there that night?

P: How were you so f***ing sure she was dead, Joran?
J: Yeah, I didn’t f***ing know for sure but in the time that it all happened, that he was there, she didn’t do anything, he.
P: But did that Daury check if she was dead? Did he look?
J: He looked at me and he said: ‘She’s not living anymore, she’s dead.’
P: And how did he do that?
J: Well, he just stood above her and looked. Yeah, it wasn’t right.
P: No, of course it wasn’t right, that I get. But she can also get into a coma.
J: Yeah.
P: Can happen, he?
J: Yeah.
P: Do you know there a people who are in a coma for 20 years, did you know that?
J: Yeah.
P: 20 years! Lying there like a plant.
J: Yeah, but you wouldn’t want that for anybody.
P: No, but that’s something else!
J: No.
P: Get it? That’s something different, Joran. That’s something different. Whether you like that or not.
J: …..
P: Boy, if I had to lie there like a plant, kill me, man!
J: Yeah, I’d rather be dead then, yeah.
P: 100%, you know?
J: Exactly, exactly.
P: 100%, if I would end up in a wheelchair and stuff, cono, man….
J: Kill me!

Well, that was a tempting offer at that moment. It was that I was behind the wheel at that moment. But instead of that I killed myself a bit more by opening the little envelope that was in my pocked and sniffed up the last bit of coke. I was on my limit for today. And until the Belgian border I was only capable of small talk. So I let the conversation go and we talked about Antwerp, taxes & other subjects. Heidi called me & this time she new all about it so I yell at her while Joran is present. I know he likes it when I do this. I begin bitching about the fact there is no white bread at home. Making all that money and then there is still no white bread. (GBMW: the argument sentences are a bit loosely translated). When I hang up Joran calls me a duffer and he’s enjoying the moment. The tension that was building is breaking a bit and gives me the opportunity to ask more questions. I want to know why he first lied about Deepak picking him up.

P: But why did you say that about these boys?
J: Said what?
P: That they picked you up? What has been your thought behind that?
J: Yeah, I did shut my mouth already after the second week, I just didn’t tell the police anything anymore.
P: Yeah, but until now you said that they picked you up, don’t you? Not to me, but to them?
J: Yes, no, this is just as the case stands today, I just kept my mouth shut. After that I didn’t state anything anymore and at a certain moment I decided: ok, it’s now in my best interest to really not say a word anymore.
P: That I understand.
J: Yes.
P: But why did you say at that moment: they picked me up?
J: Because…
P: What did you intend to achieve with that? You did know that… Look, you, I just ask myself why you say something like that, since it only makes things more complicated for yourself, man. Since they will say: “No, it isn’t true!”
J: Yes, but what else should I have said?
P: Yes.
J: Nothing, maybe better…
P: Better to say nothing in that case!
J: That’s what I’m saying.
P: Or better sat: “I walked home.” Who is going to confirm that or who is going to deny that?
J: Yes, nobody could have confirmed or denied that. Yes, that’s why it probably had been the best. But hey, at that moment, I did say that it happened, so I cannot just change that again.
P: No, I understand that, but I’m trying to understand the logic. So, you tell me know: “I should have walked.”
J: Yes, but I also did some thinking in my prison cell in the evening and I also think: What are these dickheads going to say.
P: Dickheads!? Yeah, but these dickheads are going to say that it isn’t true.

J: Yeah, right.
P: You could be sure of that (freely translated)
J: But yes, what I already told you. I was…
P: You were young, boy? You were much ahead of me, stop it man.
J: No, but what you have to consider is, I was home very quickly and euh… I had been on the computer.
P: You arrived home quickly by walking, Joran?
J: Yes.
P: Joran, come on, man, I’m from Aruba, man.
J: Patrick…
P: I know where you live, man…you can’t do that in 15 minutes. What did you….ran?
J: Yeah, of course, why…otherwise I would talk shit, they’ve checked my phone, I’ve called nobody else. The boys, Deepak and Satish, are the only ones I’ve called.
P: Yeah, but you walked to the payphone, you could have called a third person from the payphone.
J: Yeah, but I didn’t do that. The less people the better.
P: That I understand.

[mrskub]

Posted at BFN by GBMW 7/20/2008

P 188 Jonathan: I think this is from the first ride; 10-01….I’m not sure though.

J: They had f***ing…what they eventually had…what they came up with during questioning…that cono Satish had been with his girlfriend or something like that.  After that they talked shit for two days…two days on the same day talked, and his girlfriend is supposed to be in Suriname.

P: Mmm

J: And the police even went to Suriname to talk to his girlfriend. And his girlfriend said he was very nervous.

P: The day after?

J: The day after yes. Really nervous, and that he had said something terrible had happened. Okay, that was supposed to be some new evidence, but what the f***, that could mean anything, you know, so what are you talking about?

P: Maybe he lost 1500 dollars gambling, then he would be nervous as well.

J: Exactly! Exactly!

P: Yeah.

J: Then you wouldn’t be able to sleep as well too. No, and the other thing was from his little brother. In his chats that asshole Deepak said he had sex with that girl. But I think, to be honest, that he said that to brag…to the person he was chatting too, you know. Yeah, and that he said something like "We went out and I fucked her." That kind of shit on MSN. That’s why I don’t f*** around on MSN anymore. Nothing, yeah, they can trace every conversation.

P: Everything kid, it’s in the air, that’s going nowhere, man.

J: No, but nothing against me, Patrick, no taped conversations, they came with nothing.

P: Umph, but what kind of influence have those statements on you then, nothing right?

J: They’ve got nothing, according to our statements I was the last one to be with that girl.

P: If he states he fucked her; that’s good then, right?

J: But yeah, exactly yeah…apparently that’s also not sufficient evidence. They were f***ing around a lot. And that Dutch research team, he, they got the best detectives coming from Holland; who’ve worked on cold case files and stuff like that. Eh, those people were sick he, Patrick. They came with a chat from my brother with his old girlfriend; also called Natalee (GBMW: IIRC her name is spelled Natalie). Cono, man, using that against me.

P: Why?

J: Yeah, he tells that girl: 'Eh, yeah, my brother lies a lot. Imagine if he's involved or something'. They want to use that as evidence against me. Also to make you feel bad, like your family is saying this and that. And my brother said himself: 'You know how I talk, I'm joking a lot and stuff'.

P: Well, weird he!

J: They’re crazy, Patrick! But I was only laughing, he. I didn’t say cono, Patrick! No conoooo! I came there and ok and my rights la la la: ‘You don’t have to answer.’I didn’t even say: ‘I want to use my right to stay silent’. I just looked that officer straight in his eyes, I just sat there the whole time, not one word came out of my mouth. Not going to the the police station from the KIA, nothing.

P: But they’ve put you on limitations from the beginning?

J: Everything, Patrick.

P: Everything, no phone calls, not allowed to do anything, huh.

J: Can’t read a book, nothing. I got a bible.

P: Yeah, but you do read it , right? Hahaha.

J: Yeah, you’ve got nothing to do, man. You’re going….

P: Time is killing there, he?

J: ….doing a bit of push-ups.

In general everything was like I had suspected it. There was no new evidence. They just hoped they could get him to talk. The authorities must have thought that they could use regular tricks to get him to talk. They should have known better. His was father had been a judge in training. Surely daddy has taught him some life lessons. The case was closed and Joran was convinced the public prosecutor knew he couldn’t pull anything of in front of a court. A judge would clear him. And then they couldn’t touch him in any way, no matter what evidence would show up, because the law forbids to prosecute the same case twice. ‘Even if they were to find Natalee dead….’ said Joran, and a there is still a cold chain going through my spine when I hear him say: ‘…..with my sperm in  her’.
So of course I ask him it they will ever find her again? He knows for certain this will not happen. That Natalee is gone for good in the ocean. That higher powers helped him. First it’s one power, but then he corrects himself and unintentional makes it plural, as if more people helped him.
He had killed her. That’s what I got out of it. That’s what it came down to. If he knew she wouldn’t appear again, then I knew he had killed her.

……




Pages 240 - 251 from 16-01……..
 
P: Tell me exactly, ok. Carlos ‘n Charlies. You left there with her with those two or..?

J: I went there…ok, this is how it happened. I was at the casino, ok? I went and sat at the blackjacktable. Bit of blackjack, a little big money. There are a lot of girls at that table. I’m flirting with them, talk a bit with them, smooth. Then they tell me... We perfectioned this, Patrick. We made up a whole story of ‘we come from the Netherlands, also on holiday here’. We had perfectioned that playershit for those girls, you know? Because when you say: ‘I’m not a local’ then they immediately only want to f***, you know? They know, that’s how they play it: go high-roller a bit. Those bitches are going crazy there, Patrick, you know this. The will, they can’t do anything. So yeah those bitches just ask me: ‘will you go out with us tonight? Will you go to Carlos 'n Charlie's, that bar, tonight?’ And I said, ‘Yeah, that's fine’. They'd already been drinking the entire time, he?

P: Mhm…..oh, wait a minute…

J: They were drinking the entire time and I also know something about those girls…they were also taking cocaine because I know Boeti on Aruba & he told me. The went to him and got it there, you know?

P: Yeah.

J: That's possible, I know that for sure.  So yeah, I was like: ‘No, I have to go to school the next day.’ And the girl says: ‘please’. I was like: oooooh…..I know she wants to f***, I just know it for sure.

P: Which girl?

J: Her name was….a friend of that Natalee. Not even Natalee herself, you know. And I get there, right? So I first call a friend of mine. A really good friend of mine, Jaime. I know it.

P: Yeah.

J: He never would have left me alone there….we would have gone together with that girl (GBMW: as in: it would have been the two of us with that girl). Then it would…

P: Yeah.

J: …but maybe it’s a good thing it happened that way. And then euh…. I called that Deepak and that Satish. They also got that care, you know? Then I say to those girls: ‘Ok, I’ll meet you at Carlos ‘n Charlies’. And I get there and see this big group of hot bitches. And I see this good looking chick, and I start talking to her. I did not even fall for that Natalee, Patrick. So I talk to her, and she said to me. ‘No, no, no you know what?  That girl has 'shotgun' on you’.

P: Haha.

J: I was like: ‘Shotgun’ on me?! ‘Yeah, go and dance with her.’ So I walk over to the bar. They were already talking about me. And that girl was like ‘come dance with me!’’ And I was like ‘No, I’m not coming on that stage to dance with you. Come down here. We'll talk for a bit.  I’m going to have a drink with Deepak and Satish.’ So I went and had a drink with them, got a drink at the bar there. And then she just came down. From that bar, came to me, she came…

P: Who?

J: Natalee! ‘Come take a jelly shot off me.’  So the whore jumped on the bar, and wanted me to take a jelly shot out of her belly button.  So I did. And then she says, ‘So now you have to buy me a drink.’  So I was like: ‘What you want’. ‘Well, she said, what’s good?’ We’ll both get a shot of Bacardi 151.’

P: Yeah.

J: She was like: ‘Ok, that’s fine’. So a shot of Bacardi 151. She takes that. I see it. Oeee, right away..bam. 151-proof, he, Patrick? 75% alcohol.

P: Yeah.

J: And she asks for a chaser. I still had a yard in my hand, a long drink. She takes that. She drank a bit, and yeah, I see: she’s drunk, Patrick! She’s really drunk. But I know, he…I just thought I’ll just take the girl with me for a little while. I’m going to f***!
And then I said: ‘Ok, so what do you want to do? Do you want to go to your hotel?’ I thought: I’m just going to that hotel with her. That’s the best.

P: Yeah, of course man. Relaxed there, right?

J: She says: ‘No, no, no, I don’t want to go to my own hotel.’ And then I told her: ‘Ok, what do you wan to do then?’ She tells me: ‘I want to see sharks.’ I'm not bullshitting you, Patrick.
 
P: No, Joran. Look he, you know, I’ve said it many times, he? You’ve told me everything.

J: Some people are weird, Patrick.

P: Ok.

J: She said: ‘I want to see sharks, I want to see sharks.’ I was like: ‘What are you talking about?’ Then she tells me this: that her mother is the sister of Hitler.

P: Unbelievable, he?

J: Ok, then she tells me about thos boys of euhm…then she asks me: ‘Are those boys your slaves? Are those your drivers?’ That’s what she’s telling me.

P: Hahaha.

J: I was like: damn. That bitch is from Alabama, he?

P: Arkansas, he? Alabama.

J: No, even worse, that’s slavery there. Was there. Those people don’t like black people that much, you know? That’s the truth.

P: Yeah.

J: So yeah…I was with her and then I told the guys: ‘Yeah, cono I want to go somewhere alone with her, but she doesn’t want to go back to her hotel.’ I also want to do what she wants.

P: Yeah.

J: That’s also how it should be done. So I say: ‘Drop us off at the beach and then I’ll f*** her, afterwards I’ll take her to the hotel.’

P: Yeah.

J: So yeah, the dropped me off at the beach.

P: Where then? Near those things?

J: At that corner.

P: What corner? Near the Marriott?

J: At the Marriott. Between the Marriott and the Fisherman’s Huts.

P: Ok.

J: There is a road there. They drop me off. So I get out and walk with her to the beach. I’m kissing her and stuff, but she doesn’t look so hot, you know?

P: Aah.

J: Cono! And she was rather pale. But she wanted it. She really wanted it!

P: Yeah.

J: So I’m..euhm…I’m kissing her and I’m fingering her…she had her hand in my pants and so on. And yeah! All of a sudden, Patrick. (Joran makes repeated convulsing motion with shoulders.) No idea what she was doing.

P: Shaking?

J: Yeah, man, all of sudden. I was like, cono! What the f*** is this, you know?

P: And then what? What did you do?

J: Eh yeah euhm… I was talking with her, talking, talking and euh…she’s not saying anything, she’s not saying anything, she’s not saying anything. So I get her…
P: But how long was she shaking like that then? Do you know what that is?

J: Yeah, I don’t know Patrick.

P: That’s an epileptic attack or something like that, man.

J: I don’t know, Patrick, I don’t know…

P: But she was shaking….was there foam coming out of her mouth?

J: No, no foam coming out of her mouth.  Not that I saw.

P: Ok.

J: And then…I’m freaking out, you know? I’m thinking: Cono, The next I have to (GBMW: I think he means to say: Tomorrow I have to…I’ve translated it literally since I can’t finish Jorans sentences of course)…nobody even knows I’m out of the house. I just left the house. So I’m thinking like: what do I do, what do I do? And look, there are few people I trust and this is a boy… I’ve also have something on him what could… .for which I also…for which he kind of…

P: owes you this or something?

J: No, no, no, I can’t say that. I can’t say that someone owes me something like this. That’s too much. But I told him: ‘I’ve got a problem and will you come?’ And I know that if he came and would have said: ‘I’m not going to help you. You have to deal with it yourself,’ then he wouldn’t have talked.

P: Yes.

J: Maybe he would have, but I don’t know. But anyhow…

P: Ok. Yeah.

J: … I also know, I know what kind of person this is.

P: Ok. And that’s that…what’s that boy’s name?

J: Daury.

P: Okay, man.

J: I talked to him and tell him like euhm…’I’ve really… Something happened, something bad’.

P: But where did you talk to him?

J: I talked to him with the phone. From that pay phone there.

P: From where?
J: From the Marriott Hotel.

P: And where is that booth? In the lobby?

J: No, it’s just outside; near the pool.

P: Unbelievable man.

J: I sit there all the time, I go there all the time.

P: And then you just left her lying there?

J: Then… Well, listen to this, I have…you have these dwarfy things…what do you call those? You’ve got those…

P: …those huts. You’ve got those boats.

J: Yeah, but you’ve also got those plant things.

P: Those mangrove kind of things?

J: Yes, that’s what I mean. So yeah, I got her and put her a bit near those mangroves. And I told him: ‘I’m sitting here. You have to come over here.’ And he lives alone, he! He does not like that shit. Sometimes he has a bitch. He fucks them, but he lives alone.

P: Yeah, yeah.

J: Always. That’s the way it should be he says.

P: Yeah.

J: So then he came there and he told me: ‘Joraaan, what have you done man? She looks sweet, you know?

P: She’s just lying there?

J: She’s just lying there. She not doing anything. So he says: ‘Yeah, what happened?’ I said: ‘I don’t know man. I think she had too much to drink.’

P: But did you not try to resuscitate her?

J: Of course, Patrick, I tried everything, man. I tried to shake her, I was shaking her, I was shaking that bitch like ‘What's wrong with you?’ I almost wanted to cry.  ‘Why does this shit…..have to happen to me?

P: Of course, man, of course.

Here’s a bit where Patrick explains how he felt & that the conversation was stopped for a moment because Jorans phone rings.

P: And he was there?

J: He was there, yeah.

P: And how late was this?

J: 02:00…02:30…02:00

P: Unbelievable man!

J: And he tells me: ‘This is a big problem.’ And he has his own boat on Aruba you know.

P: Okay.

J: He works as a private owned for one of those people as…euh..what do you call it? With those banana boats, those tubes…

P: Oh…what’s it called? That, that, that…

J: Yes.

P: ..funboats or something like that. Where you can sit on a banana all together?

J: And he has his own boat, but he works for one of those people on the beach.

P: Or when he has a group? Then he hands over on some money?

J: That is sort of his cover work, you know?

P: Okay. That’s good! You’ve got to make some money, right?

J: Yeah, he’s got to do something.

P: That’s good. He’s not stupid.

J: No, he isn't dumb.  He was sitting there and he said, ‘Joraaan, you know I would do a lot for you, but this is going to be a huge problem’.  He said, ‘no matter what, you will be blamed for this.’ And I said: ‘yeah, I don’t know, I don’t know what I should do. I can’t go to the police, I can’t… all of this. How can we solve this?’ Then he was like, yeah, his boat is right there…near the pier. I knew that too.

P: Yes.

J: And then…he said to me: ‘Well, help me out for a moment’.

P: Yes.

J: And euh….and then we just brought her to that boat.

P: lifted?
J: Yeah, quickly; the two of us. And he…

P: But nobody saw you then?

J: Nobody was there.

P: Because it’s near the Marriott, those boats there..right?

J: But there is nobody. Nobody is paying attention late at night. It’s dark.

P: Yeah,  nobody’s walking there at night, kid.

J: Yeah, even if you walk there then they would still think: they’re playing around or something like that.

P: Yeah, and if you lift her they would think: that bitch is drunk or whatever.

J: They’re not paying attention. And he told me like euhm…What did he tell me? When I was there he said like: ‘Yeah, you have to go to school tomorrow and those things because if a girl is missing then euh…’

P: He’s clever, Joran, this man. I want to meet him. He’s clever. He will become one of the three of us, ok? He’s clever, I already hear it. This man is a genius! That’s why I’m telling you: it’s your dad because I.. Look he, I’m the teacher, he? When you told me: ‘you have to go to school the next day.’I could only think it was your father. And I wouldn’t have worried about your father, you know? But this man, he’ll become one of us, Joran. Yeah? This man has got something, yes?

J: Yeah, he has.

P: I’m telling you: he’s got something. That he thought of that at that moment has been crucial for everything. Yeah? For everything, you know! Very clever of him to say: ‘you have to go to school’.

J: Yeah.

P: Ok, fine. Then?

J: With these things as well. Yeah, you’re completely right. I have to keep doing normal stuff. And I added: ‘I’ll go to the casino tomorrow night. So I’ll be on camera and stuff.’

P: Ok, fine.

J: Ok, so I went home.

P: How did you get home then?

J: I just walked, man. What do you think? He had to take care of that stuff.

P: How far is that then?
J: About 15 minutes.

P: Oh.

J: And that shoe story is just bullshit, Patrick, you know?

P: Yeah I know. Does he have the shoes?

J: No, we just threw away those shoes. I threw them away on the way there.

P: Just threw got them off and threw them away.

J: No, you’ve got those little wells there.

P: You just put them in a little well?

J: Just put them in a little well.

P: From a drain or something?

J: Yes.

(Jorans phone rings and he talks with a friend about his house hunting for a while)

P: Okay, but you’re walking home and he sails right out.

J: He sails right out.

P: But he…

J: What he told me is…..I don’t think he even went 2 kilometres or something. He told me, he took the boat, went far and he just disposed from the side and then came back, put his boat over there and he then came to my place.

P: Yeah? At night?

J: Yeah. That’s it! Then I’ve talked to him for a little while and then he told me like ‘yeah, it’s all good. She’s just going to be missing. They will look but they will know nothing. Maybe they will come to you.’ And then I said: ‘Yeah, you know what, we have to talk this through’.

P: Yeah.

J: Because I am…we were both a bit nervous of course. It’s quite something. It’s not a little thing, you know?

P: No.

J: We’re both just…We had as well….We had done stuff before together. We did. Look, that’s why! I knew that if I had to call someone I had to call him.

P: Yeah.

J: And that he would do that for me.

P: Yeah.

J: But he, I, I, I…at that moment it was like..it had to be good when the police would come to me for the disappearance. They had seen me leave Carlos ‘n Charlies with that girl. Those boys know…they only dropped me off, they don’t know anything else.

P: That Deepak & Satish?

J: Those are stupid guys, Patrick. They’re not even worth it, you know?

P: But they dropped you off and now nothing else?

J: How, how, how…cono, mama I am…had to be to make him say that…to make them say, that they dropped her at the hotel, he?

P: Yeah.

J: That confused everything as well, he.

P: Yeah, of course, of course.

J: That confused everything. But I told him: ‘Yeah, but ok, if the police comes…that Deepak and Satish have dropped me off at the beach. So I have to talk to them as well.

P: Yeah.

J: Then they said: ‘Yeah, that’s true..’

P: But you never told those two anything, right?

J: Never, never, never.

P: Look he, that’s why I’m telling you, you’re further then I was then, you know? You’ve handled that very clever. By telling them ‘look guys, she’s missing. I don’t know where she is. Let’s just say we dropped her off there.’

J: That’s what I’ve said.

P: Okay, that’s why I’m telling you, you’re a player. A big one, man! You’re smart. Yeah?

J: Yeah, but it had to happen, Patrick, it had to happen!

P: I know, but you did good. Better than I could have done at your age, man. I tell you: shit happens.

J: Yes.

P: You know?  Shit happens in life, man.

J: You have to solve it best way you can.

P: Yeah, one way or the other.

J: It’s just, yeah now, still…looking back, you know? I couldn’t have known that it…shit…that it would get that much media attention.

P: No, you were a bit unlucky with that, that it became such a f***ing huge media hype, you know?

J: But now I can take advantage of that as well.

P: Yeah?

J: Patrick, there is a bitch…a bitch from msn. They’re crazy, you know? Do you know what she told me? I’m talking for 5 minutes with this girl, right?

P: Mhm.

J: Ok, she lives in….God damn it man…I don’t even remember. Who cares. I’ll go there someday. Who gives a shit. She tells me like euhm….yeah, no, but I want to hang out with you sometime. I’m like: ‘Yeah, we’ll do that. We’ll go out sometime. Have a drink. That’s fine.’

P: Yes.

J: I say: ‘Take some of your girlfriends with you’. She says: ‘Yeah, I’ve been on Aruba before, you know? I know what it’s like there.’ And I know… She says: ‘But when you come, we will go and rent a hotel room right?’ She’s just telling me this, Patrick! I was like: ‘of course we’ll rent a room.’ What do you think, man!

[bleachedblack]

IMO Joran was talking the truth just prior to Patrick saying:

P: He’s clever, Joran, this man. I want to meet him. He’s clever. He will become one of the three of us, ok? He’s clever, I already hear it. This man is a genius! That’s why I’m telling you: it’s your dad because I.. Look he, I’m the teacher, he? When you told me: ‘you have to go to school the next day.’I could only think it was your father. And I wouldn’t have worried about your father, you know? But this man, he’ll become one of us, Joran. Yeah? This man has got something, yes?

After Patrick makes this comment Joran 's answers are more hesitant.........and he starts to lie where just before this comment Joran is telling the truth, when he talks about "wanting to cry" for example.

[bleachedblack]

Truth:


J: I talked to him and tell him like euhm…’I’ve really… Something happened, something bad’.

P: But where did you talk to him?

J: I talked to him with the phone. From that pay phone there.

P: From where?
J: From the Marriott Hotel.

P: And where is that booth? In the lobby?

J: No, it’s just outside; near the pool.

P: Unbelievable man.

J: I sit there all the time, I go there all the time.

Unspoken truth here is yes he sits there all the time, probably tries to pick up tourist girls from here ....

[carpe noctem]

BB

This is a very interesting choice of words, also.



P: How did you get home then?

J: I just walked, man. What do you think? He had to take care of that stuff.




He HAD to take care of that stuff.

Joran wants us to believe it is a friend that would do a tremendous favor for him.

Yet, he finishes it off with a line that makes it seem like it was this person's
duty and he HAD no choice.

[bleachedblack]

I agree very interesting Carpe from the time Patrick puts out the idea that it was his
father that helped Joran lies....and yes he lies about walking. We know he didn't walk, but that is likely what he told ALE at least the first time. Paulus was questioned about Joran's feet...and were Joran's legs sore the following day. LOL

I find this interesting too. Just as we all knew, this tourist game was honed and perfected and Joran admits it here:

Pages 240 - 251 from 16-01……..
 
P: Tell me exactly, ok. Carlos ‘n Charlies. You left there with her with those two or..?

J: I went there…ok, this is how it happened. I was at the casino, ok? I went and sat at the blackjacktable. Bit of blackjack, a little big money. There are a lot of girls at that table. I’m flirting with them, talk a bit with them, smooth. Then they tell me... We perfectioned this, Patrick. We made up a whole story of ‘we come from the Netherlands, also on holiday here’. We had perfectioned that playershit for those girls, you know? Because when you say: ‘I’m not a local’ then they immediately only want to f***, you know? They know, that’s how they play it: go high-roller a bit. Those bitches are going crazy there, Patrick, you know this. The will, they can’t do anything. So yeah those bitches just ask me: ‘will you go out with us tonight? Will you go to Carlos 'n Charlie's, that bar, tonight?’ And I said, ‘Yeah, that's fine’. They'd already been drinking the entire time, he?

P: Mhm…..oh, wait a minute…

J: They were drinking the entire time and I also know something about those girls…they were also taking cocaine because I know Boeti on Aruba & he told me. The went to him and got it there, you know?

P: Yeah.