Natalee Case Discussion #762 6/30 - 7/6/08

[Shell]

Great to see you Red!  Your words are so true.  I wouldn't want to live in any other country in the world!  I hope you and Mrs. Red have a great holiday weekend!

TM

I can invite you to visit the Netherlands Texas mom 
We have Amsterdam,cheese ,windmills and wooden shoes 


We have Amsterdam,cheese ,windmills and wooden shoes !!
 

johan,  unfortunately Joran has hurt both Aruba and Holland.  I have always wanted to visit your beautiful country to see the windmills and the tulips.  When I was a little girl I had a wooden shoe.  Don't remember where I got it or why but I loved it!

I had a pair too, that my Mom found somewhere, and I clomped around them, even tho they really were very uncomfortable and hurt my feet. I never did understand how the Dutch really wore them.

[texasmom]

added to above for Tex....bet you didn't bookmark it like I did....ROFL...

  No, but you know I WOULD have, finger was on the trigger....

[Destiny]

added to above for Tex....bet you didn't bookmark it like I did....ROFL...

  No, but you know I WOULD have, finger was on the trigger....

That's my Girl.....

[Destiny]

Great to see you Red!  Your words are so true.  I wouldn't want to live in any other country in the world!  I hope you and Mrs. Red have a great holiday weekend!

TM

I can invite you to visit the Netherlands Texas mom 
We have Amsterdam,cheese ,windmills and wooden shoes 


We have Amsterdam,cheese ,windmills and wooden shoes !!
 

johan,  unfortunately Joran has hurt both Aruba and Holland.  I have always wanted to visit your beautiful country to see the windmills and the tulips.  When I was a little girl I had a wooden shoe.  Don't remember where I got it or why but I loved it!

I had a pair too, that my Mom found somewhere, and I clomped around them, even tho they really were very uncomfortable and hurt my feet. I never did understand how the Dutch really wore them.

Dr. Scholls could really break into this market...they could all be gellin'....

[texasmom]

Great to see you Red!  Your words are so true.  I wouldn't want to live in any other country in the world!  I hope you and Mrs. Red have a great holiday weekend!

TM

I can invite you to visit the Netherlands Texas mom 
We have Amsterdam,cheese ,windmills and wooden shoes 


We have Amsterdam,cheese ,windmills and wooden shoes !!
 

johan,  unfortunately Joran has hurt both Aruba and Holland.  I have always wanted to visit your beautiful country to see the windmills and the tulips.  When I was a little girl I had a wooden shoe.  Don't remember where I got it or why but I loved it!

I had a pair too, that my Mom found somewhere, and I clomped around them, even tho they really were very uncomfortable and hurt my feet. I never did understand how the Dutch really wore them.

Dr. Scholls could really break into this market...they could all be gellin'....

He'd make millions...I had some too...once upon a time...very uncomfortable..but I thought they were cool.  Then the shoes came out that I think were called yo-yo's, does anybody remember them....about 3-4 inch heel/sole with holes in them....and I put my wooden shoes away; don't even know what ever happened to them.

[texasmom]

I found this pair of yoyo's but mine were much more "cool" looking than these!   

[wreck]

Frans Deutekom = Dirty Hand .............. so what do we do now??? 

[texasmom]

Frans Deutekom = Dirty Hand .............. so what do we do now??? 

Exposing him has to be a start....we've got to keep on trying to peel back the layers!

[johan555]

About that book for me is that not important ( i don't buy it ) ,only what Joran said is important .

The writer is   E.E. Bryars she is from the states ( i don't think Patrick can write a book or even a normal letter )
Did she wrote it in dutch ? i don't think so

Parts of the confession, a huge part of the book, are written down how it happened; not how it was edited so more quotes of the confession that haven't been aired are in there. You can see where and what parts Peter R. de Vries used....it's a completer picture of the confession; when Joran said things etc.
Just thought you would like to know since you only want the Joranquotes / facts...

For me are the tapes important GBMW ,you can see the body language ,voice etc .And for me is That evidence .
I think Peter used the most important parts for his film .
And a book -Hum-it is always a commercial mix (sensation)  ,because they want to sell books !
And you can write everything in a book isn't it ?

[GBMW]

Why would Klaas say or do anything? Now you are insulting me as a Moderator and insuiating that I will be changing posts? If I was gonna erase anything it would be the Lady comment that has you so riled up,that obviously was not the right choice of word and you took it out of context. You mean I got personal with a friend of your here that was lying about me,attacking me for no reason and trying to get me kicked off the forum because she is crazy?

*******,
lying about you? Attacking you? Trying to get you kicked off the forum?


Who's lying, attacking and taking things waaaaay out of context?
I might be crazy but according to me....that's not me.
Relax & calm down a bit please....

No worries GBMW..Its a couple of friends here lying about me so I will leave the forum or get banned..They are trying to push my buttons and all I can do is watch until I get the green light to set everything straight. It goes back a few months before you came here and I was told by Red not to discuss it or post what they did and continue to do. They should have told the truth months ago,so I wouldnt be going through this now..But they never quit and they saw the opportunity again today. Really low life tactics with no basis and all lies..Klaas can clear all this up in a heartbeat if she chooses..

I really do not like being lied about and slandered on a forum that I worked so hard at being fair,impartial and always standing up for he truth.

*******,
no matter what's going on between you, D & L...you were unkind & assuming the wrong things about me for no reason today....and guess what: I don't like being treated like that....just as you don't like it.

Whatever...this is so not interesting for other posters & there is no pm here so I'm just going to drop it.

Have a great evening.

Actually I like you GBMW and I appreciate your posts,I was not trying to be unkind to you today,sorry for calling you a Lady or any bad feelings. I really wanted Patrick to be a Hero and never wanted to think he was anything but..Unfortunately everything about him leaves me with a very bad feeling and what he says and his actions do not add up,as you have said about me..I was one of Peter's biggest Fans and looked up to him greatly,until he went on record saying he solved the case and Beth is at peace.

I realize I am in the minority of my opinion of him and it leaves me open to people that want to lie about me and harm me. It goes with the terrortoity of always standing up for the truth and spending so much time trying to help Natalee and this forum. I dont have anything against those two posters,but obviously they have something against me and I wish they would get there facts straight instead of lying about me.

Not trying to be unkind? You were rude & were implying I'm a lying wheasel with "do you know what kind of job she has?" etc.
Actually you were doing the exact same thing you're accusing other people of...and you're a mod!  I do accept your apology; but I would appreaciate it if you were to edit your insults in your posts; they were uncalled for.

And yes, D & L didn't agree with your opinion but the comments weren't focussed on your view but how you reacted towards me. That was their main point.

When it comes to Peter / Patrick: you see a translated quote here and there, translated interviews in the media (television / newspapers), translated posts from Patricks blog and you base your opinion on that. Because of my job and being Dutch I see / hear more & I can interprete things a bit better than you.

Peter & Patrick don't know everything and of course they are very much aware of that. To name one thing...Peter knows Paul isn't just a daddy that happened to be lawyer / judge...who only smuggled a phone. Do you really think Peter is that clueless? Give me a break. But he can't go spread that around without proof...what do you want him to be...the next RG? He has said certain things in the press that implied his doubts when it comes to Paul....sometimes it was a quote sometimes a certain look that betrayed his thoughts....he won't go on record accusing him just like that. But make no mistake: he's more aware of things then you can imagine. If he were to believe Jorans confession in total...would he feel that way? I don't think so.
Patrick tells in his book at a certain point he doubts the Daury story at one time an it's quite clear it seems more than 1 person helped Joran when you read between the lines: higher powers (could also say something about people that have helped him later on), can't do that to them etc. No doubt Patrick knows the confession has some loops. The one thing Patrick has no doubt about whatsoever: Joran was with Natalee when something happened to her. And I agree with him.

They gave Jorans confession as case solved but of course they are aware of Jorans lying character (duh) and that it needs to be checked out. The confession show was about what Joran claimed that happened. They believe it for a big part; doesn't mean they have doubts about certain things. In his 2006 show Peter also made a point of the van der Sloots house being the possible crime scene....you think he's just going to forget about that? There are a lot more things in the 2006 show that were aired that don't add up with the confession show. The confession show just gives another possible theory...but it happens to come out of Jorans mouth when he thought he was 'safe'....so that does make it a bit more different than his statements when the police questioned him. Peters ego wanted it to be the truth....I think it's a part of the truth.


Patrick might have different ideas about a boycott or is naive / unaware about certain things & has an ego, uses drugs, has a past, wants to make money etc. That makes him a not perfect person with an opinion. Where exactly is the proof he's working with Joran?

The press isn't pointing the finger at Joran and his contribution....no let's put the negative shit on Patrick. He is no saint / ain't perfect but he had a very positive influence on this case as well.  I believe he did the best he could & appreciate the things he has done that have helped the family in their road to justice.
I'm more middle ground and you are very negative about him. Feel what you feel about the guy; do know that some of the ideas you have that are underneath those feelings aren't accurate. If you want to stand up for the truth as you say you might want to acknowledge the fact it's usually not black or white when it comes to people...they're usually grey.

[mrskub]

I found an interesting "Secret" document (or so it's labeled) from the CPT regarding a visit to Aruba jail/prison system in June 2007. I certainly wouldn't want to be held in these facilities!

http://www.justitie.nl/images/voorkoming%20van%20folteringen%20of%20bestraffingen%20CPT%20van%20het%20vierde%20reguliere%20bezoek%20Koninkrijk.doc_9530_tcm34-100232.pdf

[GBMW]

About that book for me is that not important ( i don't buy it ) ,only what Joran said is important .

The writer is   E.E. Bryars she is from the states ( i don't think Patrick can write a book or even a normal letter )
Did she wrote it in dutch ? i don't think so

Parts of the confession, a huge part of the book, are written down how it happened; not how it was edited so more quotes of the confession that haven't been aired are in there. You can see where and what parts Peter R. de Vries used....it's a completer picture of the confession; when Joran said things etc.
Just thought you would like to know since you only want the Joranquotes / facts...

For me are the tapes important GBMW ,you can see the body language ,voice etc .And for me is That evidence .
I think Peter used the most important parts for his film .
And a book -Hum-it is always a commercial mix (sensation)  ,because they want to sell books !
And you can write everything in a book isn't it ?

Yeah, but the confessionstuff is written out for some part (the tapestuff)...I thought you might be interested because Joran does change details here and there...and it might matter to you on what day / when he said things...it's a big part of the book & I thought you might want to know.

[GBMW]

I found an interesting "Secret" document (or so it's labeled) from the CPT regarding a visit to Aruba jail/prison system in June 2007. I certainly wouldn't want to be held in these facilities!

http://www.justitie.nl/images/voorkoming%20van%20folteringen%20of%20bestraffingen%20CPT%20van%20het%20vierde%20reguliere%20bezoek%20Koninkrijk.doc_9530_tcm34-100232.pdf

Certainly not indeed! Thanks for the link.

[MumInOhio]

Frans Deutekom = Dirty Hand .............. so what do we do now??? 

Exposing him has to be a start....we've got to keep on trying to peel back the layers!

Still catching up, but TM, Lala's, vms, or another Tangoer, but I thought that Caps told us that Deutekom was German. Can anyone recall, as it may affect how his name is pronounced. (Limited language skills here, from over 40 years ago) 

[MumInOhio]

Help from some of our Dutch posters, please!

Caps posted that Rudy and Hendrick are not brothers. He has posted this twice before in Shango and I have checked on it and found articles referencing them as brothers....LOL...He didn't answer my questions on it either!

Can we please find out for sure, one way or the other?

[Lala'sMom]

Capslock - Let me ask your personal opinion.  Could Karen Janssen and Jan van der Straten have wanted to do the RIGHT thing but could they have been stopped by Deutekom?  Were their hands tied by Deutekom?

KAren and van der Straten wanted the case to come out, but Deutekom had them already under his control....in the OM notting get done without the aproval of duetekom...He is the one that tells Mariam what to say and when to say it.

and then there is Rudy Croes which is the minister of Justice, has the title but no power...he is like Hans Mos. The power is in Hendrick Croes who is the brother of Betico Croes which is the uncle of Rudy Croes.

Hendrick Croes is the back-office (where things are beeing run from) but with no title. In the last election, Rudy croes could not be Minister of Justice and so they made a deal where he will be the front (Puppy say all guy) and Hendrick the real Minster Of Justice. in the eyes of the true MEPS party supportes, they believe that Rudy is running the show but he is not).

Teresa was placed there by Hendrick Croes and so was Marian. both hands where tied down since this guy Duetekom was send protect the blunders that Rudy Croes was commiting... This guy hands are in all the mayor organisation including the UN.

For the case in 2004 we Read what he presented to the court and it was all a fabrication based on what he knows about you.
e.g. if you are an expert in some thing, he will use that knowlage to potraay that since you know about something, that means that the possibility is that you have done it. (So how can you proed that you can not have done it).

In the case of Natalee, Joran boost but he did not do it, but since he boost, he wanted the game to continue and so they stoped him right in there. He will not boost any more.

If I had to call some one to question, I will start with Duetekom and Rudy Croes and the prime Minster and Hendrick Croes.
Steve Garido Croes Jr.

I know Caps is not here right now, but hopefully he will drop in and explain this for me.  I am going to assume that Caps meant boast instead of boost.  Are you saying that Joran did not do anything to Natalee? That his bragging is what got him into trouble and complicated things so much that we are where we are now?  I must go back into the Shango archives and find where Caps first mentioned Deutekom. We have been waiting for this info for a while now.  Caps has had a bead on this guy for some time.  I will try to find it an post it in a few.  I guess I need to move it to Shango too for future reference.

[San]

Not trying to be unkind? You were rude & were implying I'm a lying wheasel with "do you know what kind of job she has?" etc.
Actually you were doing the exact same thing you're accusing other people of...and you're a mod!  I do accept your apology; but I would appreaciate it if you were to edit your insults in your posts; they were uncalled for.

And yes, D & L didn't agree with your opinion but the comments weren't focussed on your view but how you reacted towards me. That was their main point.

When it comes to Peter / Patrick: you see a translated quote here and there, translated interviews in the media (television / newspapers), translated posts from Patricks blog and you base your opinion on that. Because of my job and being Dutch I see / hear more & I can interprete things a bit better than you.

Peter & Patrick don't know everything and of course they are very much aware of that. To name one thing...Peter knows Paul isn't just a daddy that happened to be lawyer / judge...who only smuggled a phone. Do you really think Peter is that clueless? Give me a break. But he can't go spread that around without proof...what do you want him to be...the next RG? He has said certain things in the press that implied his doubts when it comes to Paul....sometimes it was a quote sometimes a certain look that betrayed his thoughts....he won't go on record accusing him just like that. But make no mistake: he's more aware of things then you can imagine. If he were to believe Jorans confession in total...would he feel that way? I don't think so.
Patrick tells in his book at a certain point he doubts the Daury story at one time an it's quite clear it seems more than 1 person helped Joran when you read between the lines: higher powers (could also say something about people that have helped him later on), can't do that to them etc. No doubt Patrick knows the confession has some loops. The one thing Patrick has no doubt about whatsoever: Joran was with Natalee when something happened to her. And I agree with him.

They gave Jorans confession as case solved but of course they are aware of Jorans lying character (duh) and that it needs to be checked out. The confession show was about what Joran claimed that happened. They believe it for a big part; doesn't mean they have doubts about certain things. In his 2006 show Peter also made a point of the van der Sloots house being the possible crime scene....you think he's just going to forget about that? There are a lot more things in the 2006 show that were aired that don't add up with the confession show. The confession show just gives another possible theory...but it happens to come out of Jorans mouth when he thought he was 'safe'....so that does make it a bit more different than his statements when the police questioned him. Peters ego wanted it to be the truth....I think it's a part of the truth.


Patrick might have different ideas about a boycott or is naive / unaware about certain things & has an ego, uses drugs, has a past, wants to make money etc. That makes him a not perfect person with an opinion. Where exactly is the proof he's working with Joran?

The press isn't pointing the finger at Joran and his contribution....no let's put the negative shit on Patrick. He is no saint / ain't perfect but he had a very positive influence on this case as well.  I believe he did the best he could & appreciate the things he has done that have helped the family in their road to justice.
I'm more middle ground and you are very negative about him. Feel what you feel about the guy; do know that some of the ideas you have that are underneath those feelings aren't accurate. If you want to stand up for the truth as you say you might want to acknowledge the fact it's usually not black or white when it comes to people...they're usually grey.

Things are usually black and white to me.  Either I believe the person or I don't.  That's how I am when I view things.  I feel the same way as ******* does about Patrick.  There are people who don't.  We all have different thoughts about the subject.

This has gone on since yesterday and I'm tired of reading about it and I don't want to see fighting.  I say let's move on a drop the subject.

[johan555]

GBMW why do you say  things like this on this forum :

Because of my job and being Dutch I see / hear more & I can interprete things a bit better than you.

And you work for the dutch Broadcast SBS NEWS you said many times
SBS has not a daily news program only Hart van Nederland and that is a kind of regional Sensation news ,not serious and only dutch news .
so don't play blufpoker here to the *******
Here is a program screen shot 6 juli 2008

[Rob]

Things are usually black and white to me.  Either I believe the person or I don't.  That's how I am when I view things.  I feel the same way as ******* does about Patrick.  There are people who don't.  We all have different thoughts about the subject.

This has gone on since yesterday and I'm tired of reading about it and I don't want to see fighting.  I say let's move on a drop the subject.

I'm with you on this honey!!

I don't believe Patrick. His inflections and tones (even though I don't understand or speak Dutch) I get the way he is saying things and I don't trust him. He coaches Joran in my opinion.

I don't trust someone using 2-3 grams of coke a DAY. Does anyone really understand how much blow that is for 1 person? It's amazing he didn't die. I looked on the net and the consensus seems to be about 15 lines per gram.

so on his off day of only using 2 grams - that's still about 30 lines of coke.

I still believe Godfather Peter R is not involved in anything nefarious.  I see no reason why he would lend himself to any charade. Until someone has something real and substantial on Godfather Peter R I will give him the benefit of trust.

Cocaine causes paranoia and delusions. I don't trust people on that stuff. Never have and never will.

[klaasend]

http://www.amigoe.com/english/