Lively Case Discussion #519 8/31 - 9/4/2006

[KatzHome]

I'm need to run out for a couple hours this morning, see you all later!

See ya later, Klaas...  And, since it seems that I'm posting by myself again ~ see ya all later too.

[KatzHome]

Hi!  Just reduced my house and guess I will run another ad in the classifies.  Klaasend your right never offer your services because I'm now getting calls and everyone has special needs and all I wanted was to play tennis..  I now have 24 new members and they all have titles which I was just hoping to find weekend players..  Example: Chris Kennedy,
PTR-Certified Professional USTA Member, what does that mean?   I think I will tell them that maybe they didn't understand my invite and this was for starting a nude tennis team?         I was going to start the bike club but now this has gotten way too big for what I wanted..  I'm scared of answering my phone..  They want to know what circuit I'm on and I guess I should tell them the peeping squirrel circuit at Scared Monkeys that should impress them..  I'm afraid to do the bike club, I might get riders like Lance Armstrong and there again I just want to have fun not kill myself..  Just be careful everyone about offering your services, it seems there are a lot of people that will take you up on that..

Have a great weekend, I need to goto Blockbuster and rent a dvd on tennis..      

Hi Terry and bye Terry...  btw...  Your cat is great!

[2NJSons_Mom]

On your question if I was at the “Raquet Club” on Monday May 30, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not go on that day to aforementioned club. I have selection training on Mondays. I am present in football selection.

On your question if a telephone number, I will explain to you the following:
I have no mobile telephone, it was stolen on Monday, May 30, 2005. The number is xxxxxxx.

On your question if I have filed a report on this, I will explain to you the following:
I did not file a report.

On your question why I didn’t file a report, I will explain to you the following:
I have not yet been to SETAR to buy. New I must buy if I want to preserve my old number. [/b]

From Sanders 6/16 statement....what kind of answer is that??  Makes no sense...it's supposedly stolen and he's talking about preserving the #...

[Ono]

Well put, AZ. You've listed many of the reasons for my beliefs.

Me too ...  and the longer this goes on and the more statements we read, the more convinced I am that Joran is a parent's nightmare.

[KatzHome]

On your question if I was at the “Raquet Club” on Monday May 30, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not go on that day to aforementioned club. I have selection training on Mondays. I am present in football selection.

On your question if a telephone number, I will explain to you the following:
I have no mobile telephone, it was stolen on Monday, May 30, 2005. The number is xxxxxxx.

On your question if I have filed a report on this, I will explain to you the following:
I did not file a report.

On your question why I didn’t file a report, I will explain to you the following:
I have not yet been to SETAR to buy. New I must buy if I want to preserve my old number. [/b]

From Sanders 6/16 statement....what kind of answer is that??  Makes no sense...it's supposedly stolen and he's talking about preserving the #...

Good morning, NJ Mom!  {{{hugs}}}  How are ya?    Okies ~ maybe I'm thinking this one through wrong, I don't have a cell phone...drives my sister crazy....  but, it seems to me that Sander is concerned about keeping the phone number that he already has for that "missing" cell phone...  (I'm not ready to call it "stolen" at this point, ya know...)  And he's concerned about buying a new phone, in order to be able to keep the same phone number instead of having a new phone number issued to him when he gets a new phone...

I can understand wanting to keep the same phone number...  I wouldn't want to start all over with a new phone number either...

Am I making any sense ~ or am I just being stupid again...

The thing that gets me about Sander's statement is that he made a statement...  while his older brother, Koen didn't...  and Koen is the one who is rumored to have been so freaked out after Natalee's disappearance that he slept in his parents bed...

[Ono]

On the date that Natalee disappeared, Aruba was an hour behind Birmingham time. One call that she made was 3 am in Birmingham but 2 am in Aruba.

2 am: Nat gets in a call to Twitty phone

2:30 am: Joran, Deepak and third male are seen at the raquet club, in Deepak's car.

In my opinion between 2 and 2:30 all hell breaks lose because of the phonecall and therein lies the reason for the explosive temper tantrum which more than likely then ends her life...."something bad happens"...  My original thought so very long ago at the very beginning of this and it still sticks with me.

[msmarple]

I saw some discussion about time zone differences and wanted to clarify something.

Aruba is not in the Eastern time zone.
Aruba standard time is GM-4.
Aruba does not observe daylight savings time.

Alabama is not on Eastern time; it is Central time.
Central Standard Time is GM-6.
Central Daylight Time is GM-5.

Eastern Standard Time is GM-5.
Eastern Daylight Time is GM-4.

When Eastern Daylight Time is in effect, Eastern is the same as local Aruba time.

When Eastern Standard Time is in effect, Eastern time is one hour behind Aruba time.

At the time Natalee went missing, "daylight savings time" was in effect in the U.S. Because of that, Aruba time was the same as Eastern time, and Alabama was one hour earlier.

2:00 a.m. in Aruba =

2:00 am Eastern Daylight Time
1:00 am Eastern Standard Time

1:00 am Central Daylight Time (Alabama)
Midnight Central Standard Time (Alabama)

[KatzHome]

Well put, AZ. You've listed many of the reasons for my beliefs.

Me too ...  and the longer this goes on and the more statements we read, the more convinced I am that Joran is a parent's nightmare.

Hi Ono...  haven't seen you in a long time!  I'm working around the house and lurking...  

And I agree to a point...  oh yeah, Joran's a nightmare, all right...  but I'm not ready to give his parents all that much credit and feel bad for them in any way for the monster they helped make...

And I still blame Paulus so much....  I think that man knows exactly what happened ~ and refused to give Beth and Dave a tiny morsel of peace by telling them too...

Just my opinion...  my 2¢

[blah]

On your question if I was at the “Raquet Club” on Monday May 30, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not go on that day to aforementioned club. I have selection training on Mondays. I am present in football selection.

On your question if a telephone number, I will explain to you the following:
I have no mobile telephone, it was stolen on Monday, May 30, 2005. The number is xxxxxxx.

On your question if I have filed a report on this, I will explain to you the following:
I did not file a report.

On your question why I didn’t file a report, I will explain to you the following:
I have not yet been to SETAR to buy. New I must buy if I want to preserve my old number. [/b]

From Sanders 6/16 statement....what kind of answer is that??  Makes no sense...it's supposedly stolen and he's talking about preserving the #...

it is becomming more and more clear that this phone was not stolen.

[KatzHome]

I saw some discussion about time zone differences and wanted to clarify something.  <snip>

Good morning, Ms.Marple!  Thanks for the time zone stuff...  But, I'm still confused about these phone calls...

The only one that I know of is the one that Natalee made to one of the guys on the school trip's cell phone ~ and she left a message that he didn't hear until he was on his way home...

Is there now another phone call that Natalee supposedly made that night that has come to light?

[Kimmy53]

I have mostly been lurking lately, and haven't had alot of time to read the latest statements translated.

I read the "maid's" statement.  What kind of questioning is that?  How long have you worked for them?  What are your hours?  My gosh, I think a 3rd grader could do a better job of asking questions than that.  Big Idiots.- Unless there are parts of the statement missing, that interview is a waste of time.  I swear.

Something odd to me, Why the questions about a spanish speaking aid?  That is a really strange question.

I get so mad reading this stuff.  I guess I shouldn't expect anything else from ALE.

[KatzHome]

On your question if I was at the “Raquet Club” on Monday May 30, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not go on that day to aforementioned club. I have selection training on Mondays. I am present in football selection.

On your question if a telephone number, I will explain to you the following:
I have no mobile telephone, it was stolen on Monday, May 30, 2005. The number is xxxxxxx.

On your question if I have filed a report on this, I will explain to you the following:
I did not file a report.

On your question why I didn’t file a report, I will explain to you the following:
I have not yet been to SETAR to buy. New I must buy if I want to preserve my old number. [/b]

From Sanders 6/16 statement....what kind of answer is that??  Makes no sense...it's supposedly stolen and he's talking about preserving the #...

it is becomming more and more clear that this phone was not stolen.

Yeah ~ I'm not ready to call it "stolen" yet, either, Blah...  I'm more inclined to think that the phone might "be gone" with Natalee...

Don't know if Sander was there that night ~ maybe Koen had Sander's phone with him or something...  Maybe Koen was there, I don't know...

I sure hope the investigators are figuring this all out...  I mean the new ones from Holland...  And I hope the ones working for Beth and Dave have a good idea what happened that night too...

[Ono]

Well put, AZ. You've listed many of the reasons for my beliefs.

Me too ...  and the longer this goes on and the more statements we read, the more convinced I am that Joran is a parent's nightmare.

Hi Ono...  haven't seen you in a long time!  I'm working around the house and lurking...  

And I agree to a point...  oh yeah, Joran's a nightmare, all right...  but I'm not ready to give his parents all that much credit and feel bad for them in any way for the monster they helped make...

And I still blame Paulus so much....  I think that man knows exactly what happened ~ and refused to give Beth and Dave a tiny morsel of peace by telling them too...

Just my opinion...  my 2¢

Hi Katz! Glad you eye procedure went well..

Oh, don't get me wrong...I am not excusing Paulus or Anita, as it seems they certainly have some very peculiar parenting habits ~ In fact, no parenting habits seem to be their style...  I'm thinking that more than likely he was an enigma behavior-wise from the get-go ....It's possible they never wanted to admit that there was something wrong with him...consequently, his/their problems have grown larger and more serious over the years...they cannot hide it now.

[KatzHome]

Well put, AZ. You've listed many of the reasons for my beliefs.

Me too ...  and the longer this goes on and the more statements we read, the more convinced I am that Joran is a parent's nightmare.

Hi Ono...  haven't seen you in a long time!  I'm working around the house and lurking...  

And I agree to a point...  oh yeah, Joran's a nightmare, all right...  but I'm not ready to give his parents all that much credit and feel bad for them in any way for the monster they helped make...

And I still blame Paulus so much....  I think that man knows exactly what happened ~ and refused to give Beth and Dave a tiny morsel of peace by telling them too...

Just my opinion...  my 2¢

Hi Katz! Glad you eye procedure went well..

Oh, don't get me wrong...I am not excusing Paulus or Anita, as it seems they certainly have some very peculiar parenting habits ~ In fact, no parenting habits seem to be their style...  I'm thinking that more than likely he was an enigma behavior-wise from the get-go ....It's possible they never wanted to admit that there was something wrong with him...consequently, his/their problems have grown larger and more serious over the years...they cannot hide it now.

Thank you very much, Ono!  I appreciate it....

   I really didn't think that you were excusing them...  I just saw your post about Joran being every parent's nightmare ~ and I just had to chime in with my 2¢ on his parents too...

They're still trying their dangest to hide it, Ono!!!  That's what fries me! But their house of cards is falling...

[blah]

so now we have:

Joran threw a crackhead off a bridge

Joran threw a guy through a glass window

Joran killed his family dog and tried to balme someone else

Joran beat up his little brother and was seeing a shrink because of it

Joran said if Natalee was to return he would hate her and he would punch her in the face right in front of her mother.

Joran told Deepak and Satish in the back seat of a police car that he should have killed them

Joran told Deepak in the back of a police cat that he should punch him in the face.

[2NJSons_Mom]

On your question if I was at the “Raquet Club” on Monday May 30, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not go on that day to aforementioned club. I have selection training on Mondays. I am present in football selection.

On your question if a telephone number, I will explain to you the following:
I have no mobile telephone, it was stolen on Monday, May 30, 2005. The number is xxxxxxx.

On your question if I have filed a report on this, I will explain to you the following:
I did not file a report.

On your question why I didn’t file a report, I will explain to you the following:
I have not yet been to SETAR to buy. New I must buy if I want to preserve my old number. [/b]

From Sanders 6/16 statement....what kind of answer is that??  Makes no sense...it's supposedly stolen and he's talking about preserving the #...

it is becomming more and more clear that this phone was not stolen.

I agree, as was discussed here before, the cell conveniently was 'stolen' on 5/30/05 when Sander was at football selection or before or later...mmmm....our cell phone numbers carried over from the original contract with our provider when we got new.  If he's saying this 2 weeks following the loss, it has no bearing filing a theft report, imo.

Katz, I read your response (felt it too much of a challenge to quote you and blah in one post) .  I also was trying to see it as perhaps a kid's logic, but then, reading the statement from 6/16, he also says that he saw Joran several times since 5/30/05 and Natalee's disappearance was not always discussed....I don't buy that.....

[blah]

On your question if I was at the “Raquet Club” on Monday May 30, 2005, I will explain to you the following:
I did not go on that day to aforementioned club. I have selection training on Mondays. I am present in football selection.

On your question if a telephone number, I will explain to you the following:
I have no mobile telephone, it was stolen on Monday, May 30, 2005. The number is xxxxxxx.

On your question if I have filed a report on this, I will explain to you the following:
I did not file a report.

On your question why I didn’t file a report, I will explain to you the following:
I have not yet been to SETAR to buy. New I must buy if I want to preserve my old number. [/b]

From Sanders 6/16 statement....what kind of answer is that??  Makes no sense...it's supposedly stolen and he's talking about preserving the #...

it is becomming more and more clear that this phone was not stolen.

I agree, as was discussed here before, the cell conveniently was 'stolen' on 5/30/05 when Sander was at football selection or before or later...mmmm....our cell phone numbers carried over from the original contract with our provider when we got new.  If he's saying this 2 weeks following the loss, it has no bearing filing a theft report, imo.

Katz, I read your response (felt it too much of a challenge to quote you and blah in one post) .  I also was trying to see it as perhaps a kid's logic, but then, reading the statement from 6/16, he also says that he saw Joran several times since 5/30/05 and Natalee's disappearance was not always discussed....I don't buy that.....

hmmm i wonder if Deepak is missing anything

Joran - shoes
Sanders - phone
Deepak - ??
Satish - well, seems there may be a gun missing
Paulus - ??

I wonder if they all stuck a personal belonging with the body to assure no one would talk - cuz then they would all go down.

[truthseeker2]

On the date that Natalee disappeared, Aruba was an hour behind Birmingham time. One call that she made was 3 am in Birmingham but 2 am in Aruba.

2 am: Nat gets in a call to Twitty phone

2:30 am: Joran, Deepak and third male are seen at the raquet club, in Deepak's car.

The time difference is the other way around.  Alabama is an hour behind Aruba. It is Eastern time in Aruba, same as Georgia.  Alabama is an hour behind Georgia. When it is 3AM in Georgia & Aruba, it is 2AM in Alabama.

So if Natalee makes a call from Aruba at 3AM it is 2AM in AL.  If the phone call in AL was received at 3AM (AL time), then Natalee made the call at 4AM Aruba time.

You are correct.  
This can get confusing at times so here’s a table that can be used to determine what time it is in Aruba compared to the time in Birmingham, AL.  Remember, Aruba is in the eastern time zone and Birmingham is in the central time zone.

Aruba             midnight   1:00 am      2:00am  3:00 am  4:00am  5:00am
Birmingham    11:00pm  midnight     1:00am  2:00am  3:00am  4:00am

[Jacqueline]

so now we have:

Joran threw a crackhead off a bridge

Joran threw a guy through a glass window

Joran killed his family dog and tried to balme someone else

Joran beat up his little brother and was seeing a shrink because of it

Joran said if Natalee was to return he would hate her and he would punch her in the face right in front of her mother.

Joran told Deepak and Satish in the back seat of a police car that he should have killed them

Joran told Deepak in the back of a police cat that he should punch him in the face.

Quite a notorious list of accomplishments.

This kid is not done yet....

and shame on those who could have done something to prevent him from harming someone else.

[msmarple]

KatzHome - I'm not a good resource on the phone calls. From the beginning, I had each snippet of phone call info in my notes. However, one thing I was never clear about was "which time" was referenced.

Top of my head, these possible calls -

A call to a kid in MB who did not make the trip and retrieved a message.

A call to a kid from MB on the trip who had his own cell phone there (he listened to a message on the bus going home, or at home)

A call to the Twitty home that Jug apparently slept through; probably a message was left there.

Meanwhile, again, top of my head, the CONTENT of the msg(s) -

Odd sounds - some speculation that it might have been the VDS neighbor's monkey screeching.

"Are you calling home?"

"I don't know these people"


And I still am not clear about whether any of these were from Natalee, and what TIME ...