Lively Case Discussion #519 8/31 - 9/4/2006

[Sam]

OK I am going to be way off topic here. For one thing when I first started following this case it was at Rheil World View. I followed it there for quite awhile until Dan sort of went a little ? Crazy sounding. I then discovered Scared Monkeys.

Anyway last night I thought I would try to go back and reread some of his very early stuff. Of course there was much to much to read at 1 reading so I did the make available offline thingy and spent most of today reading offline. Was almost finished when I lost power temporarily. Lost the page so can not give you a link but will give it later. I did have 1 page I copied. Should have copied lots more. Here following is the page I copied.

Riehl World View
An Open Letter To Aruba
I have been nothing but objective, supportive and understanding as regards the tiny island of Aruba as it wrestles with a tremendous problem. As is likely the case with many reasonable Americans and citizens of the world, watching what has been happening on the island of Aruba has called for tremendous patience, understanding and maybe even a certain kindness.

As for the particulars of any investigation, I leave judgment to those far more experienced in such things. As a business person, I understand the need to balance the books with ones public image. But I have also been watching for a week or two now as a very, very troubling development has begun to appear on the island.

Questions have been coming from the island during that period of time, about Natalee Holloway. Fair enough, though I would point out to my Caribbean friends that as things stand, you honestly do have far more questions of a serious nature to answer than to ask just now.

Recently, at least one media outlet has been consistently inquiring as to Natalee's friends. Who are/were her boyfriends? How many were her boyfriends? And today it is my understanding that this media outlet not only asked these questions, but also believes it somehow has a right to demand answers from Natalee Holloway's family. And you broadcast this on the air?

America is kind, Aruba, but she is not naive. There can be only one extremely self serving rationale behind such questions being asked in the public media at this time, especially as all ethical and reliable media can easily validate the honorable truth. Natalee was a high school student and a vibrant, good hearted young woman of more than average or reasonable moral character. Period.

Now, you have your answers, just as many of us already have the pertinent facts, which frankly are far too worthy to be hurled into the middle of this confounding mix.

Might she be capable of a mistake? A misjudgment? I suppose. But then who isn't? And really, who cares? But these troubling questions I and now apparently many others have begun to hear, questions which can only hope to serve one rather pathetic and singular purpose, as they serve no valuable role in this tragedy - they will not give anyone meaningful answers, Aruba. They will only serve to focus the attention of America, and perhaps even a larger portion of the world upon your seeming inability to answer the very many valid questions sitting as yet unanswered and squarely upon your island's beaches today.

My friends in Aruba, America might forgive a certain incompetence, or, God forbid maybe even some corruption as regards this still on going investigation. And Aruba likely would endure the damage to its reputation should it come to be that America and some others in the world conclude that your system of policing needs some attention and possibly refinement, if not outright improvement.

Of course, all this is assuming you wish to continue to be a playground of sorts for the world, and most particularly for that piece of it that is American.

But, be careful, Aruba. In terms of legal issues and public perception, if there is anything America detests more than seeing the guilty go free, it is seeing the innocent dragged down into the mud, in this case the mud of a rock and sand island we really could manage to do fine without, should a significant portion of our population so choose.

I'd suggest you think very carefully as to whether or not you want to make a similar admittedly bold statement as regards America, or more factually her tourist dollars, before you begin asking too many unnecessary questions while America is looking upon you to provide some straightforward and increasingly overdue answers.


Update: For those posting the ridiculous reaction that "all questions are relevant in this case." It would be best if you thought some prior to posting. 1) A caveat of the Dutch system is that investigative information cannot be made public, therefore 2) Any public media attempt to smear the reputation of an apparent victim cannot in any manner be defended as "part" of an invetsigation, and 3) Even if it were so, then why, as stated by P v d Sloot last night, did authorities not even "interrogate" him during his brief detention, but only take a statement?

If you would advocate "interrogating" a young victims reputation publically in a manner that can only be defined as a smear campaign, yet, not complain at the failure of the Aruban police to interrogate a, in their own words, potentenial suspect privately while he is in detention - you either lack wisdom, judgment, or a reasonably clear view of the dynamics of this case.

Lastly, nowhere have I ever advocated that Aruban authorities do "less" in a situation where many are coming to the conclusion that they have been doing far too little far too late thus far. If you cannot distinguish between misguided public relations and an investigation, hopefully you never take up the law, or serious argument around it.

Thursday, June 30, 2005 at 02:50 AM in Natalee Holloway | Permalink | Comments (635) | TrackBack (1)

[Sam]

I am bolding 1 part of the same letter by Dan below.

Update: For those posting the ridiculous reaction that "all questions are relevant in this case." It would be best if you thought some prior to posting. 1) A caveat of the Dutch system is that investigative information cannot be made public, therefore 2) Any public media attempt to smear the reputation of an apparent victim cannot in any manner be defended as "part" of an invetsigation, and 3) Even if it were so, then why, as stated by P v d Sloot last night, did authorities not even "interrogate" him during his brief detention, but only take a statement?

If you would advocate "interrogating" a young victims reputation publically in a manner that can only be defined as a smear campaign, yet, not complain at the failure of the Aruban police to interrogate a, in their own words, potentenial suspect privately while he is in detention - you either lack wisdom, judgment, or a reasonably clear view of the dynamics of this case.

[igsigs]

SAM, interesting article. I am assuming Dan wrote that? (before he went off his meds).

Aruba appears not to have taken his advice.

[klaasend]

http://www.nos.nl/nos/artikelen/2006/09/art000001C6CDCE956DB650.html

Het KLPD gaat het onderzoek leiden naar de verdwijning van de Amerikaanse scholiere Natalee Holloway. Aruba had daar om gevraagd. Natalee Holloway wordt al meer dan een jaar vermist.

Rough translation:

THE KLPD will lead the investigation to the disappearance of the American scholiere Natalee Holloway. Aruba had requested it. Natalee Holloway has been missing already more than a year.

[Easywriter]

I never posted at RWV, but I did read there frequently in the early days.  He even had Joran posting there that first week, whining that he was just a 17-year-old kid pretending to be 19.  Interesting stuff.

What happened to Dan?  He went nutz!

[igsigs]

Did Joran tell Freddy and Sander the same story? Or is Sander lying and sticking with the C.Croes/Bubali story?

[Sam]

I never posted at RWV, but I did read there frequently in the early days.  He even had Joran posting there that first week, whining that he was just a 17-year-old kid pretending to be 19.  Interesting stuff.

What happened to Dan?  He went nutz!

Easy I did post there in the early days. I absolutley loved his insight as well as some of his early posters , such as Anna. I think Isigs may have nailed it, he went off his meds. LOL

[cubbeegirl]

I never posted at RWV, but I did read there frequently in the early days.  He even had Joran posting there that first week, whining that he was just a 17-year-old kid pretending to be 19.  Interesting stuff.

What happened to Dan?  He went nutz!

Easy I did post there in the early days. I absolutley loved his insight as well as some of his early posters , such as Anna. I think Isigs may have nailed it, he went off his meds. LOL

I never posted there myself, but I did read there in the early days. In fact RWV is where i first heard of SM. It seems to me that Dan really spiralled out of control after his appearance on Fox. Can't seem to remember, was that on O'Reilly or Geraldo?

[igsigs]

How high is the Wilhelmina Park Bridge?

[klaasend]

Did Joran tell Freddy and Sander the same story? Or is Sander lying and sticking with the C.Croes/Bubali story?

Deepak email alibi LIE - most likely drafted by Paulus and given to all of Joran's friends and the Kalpoes for memorization.

[Easywriter]

I never posted at RWV, but I did read there frequently in the early days.  He even had Joran posting there that first week, whining that he was just a 17-year-old kid pretending to be 19.  Interesting stuff.

What happened to Dan?  He went nutz!

Easy I did post there in the early days. I absolutley loved his insight as well as some of his early posters , such as Anna. I think Isigs may have nailed it, he went off his meds. LOL

That’s a shame.  Sometimes genius teeters along a fine line and can easily falter.

[igsigs]

Did Joran tell Freddy and Sander the same story? Or is Sander lying and sticking with the C.Croes/Bubali story?

Deepak email alibi LIE - most likely drafted by Paulus and given to all of Joran's friends and the Kalpoes for memorization.

Oh yeah...

Can you consider the C.Croes, Bubali(assumed), and E-mail story the same? I wanna know when Freedy spills the beans.

[San]

Did Joran tell Freddy and Sander the same story? Or is Sander lying and sticking with the C.Croes/Bubali story?

Deepak email alibi LIE - most likely drafted by Paulus and given to all of Joran's friends and the Kalpoes for memorization.

I agree Klaas.  They all needed something that they could memorize.  This way no one slips up.  I also believe Paulus had help with the email (other legal minds).

[sb]

Yea, a very Joranesque evasion by Sander. The answer itself is correct, "buying a new phone to preserve your old number", but not to the question asked. Two weeks and counting for Sander and he still has not taken any action to replace the phone. A cell for a 15yr old pimp is a necessity, so it appears HIDING the knowledge of a missing phone was more important than HAVING a phone.

This is a VERY good point.

And WHY is ALE asking Sander all these questions about cellphones in the first place? He was younger, and was from all accounts, at home and totally out of the loop on the night in question.

What significance does Sander's CELLPHONE NUMBER bear to the case? Hmmm...

[klaasend]

Did Joran tell Freddy and Sander the same story? Or is Sander lying and sticking with the C.Croes/Bubali story?

Deepak email alibi LIE - most likely drafted by Paulus and given to all of Joran's friends and the Kalpoes for memorization.

Oh yeah...

Can you consider the C.Croes, Bubali(assumed), and E-mail story the same? I wanna know when Freedy spills the beans.

I must be loosing it because I don't know what you mean by the C.Croes, Bubali (assumed) email story?

[Grande]

Did Joran tell Freddy and Sander the same story? Or is Sander lying and sticking with the C.Croes/Bubali story?

Deepak email alibi LIE - most likely drafted by Paulus and given to all of Joran's friends and the Kalpoes for memorization.

Oh yeah...

Can you consider the C.Croes, Bubali(assumed), and E-mail story the same? I wanna know when Freedy spills the beans.

I must be loosing it because I don't know what you mean by the C.Croes, Bubali (assumed) email story?

Grande image portfolio >

http://s66.photobucket.com/albums/h254/chicagoutfit/?actionfiltered=view&current=GabrielLeoappraisal.jpg&slideshow=true&interval=2

Some screenshots of the early web activity on SM is in here as well.

[sb]

To me, the mere fact of them asking Sander any questions IN THE FIRST PLACE is suspicious.

And note that the questions are totally out of the frame we would expect... they don't ask him a THING about where his older brother was that night, for example, or anything about his knowledge of the boat having been used at that time.

They ask him about his cellphone.  That should send up a red flag.

[sb]

Looks like it's gonna be a quiet night in our Cage. I'll check back later.

[Spock]

Yea, a very Joranesque evasion by Sander. The answer itself is correct, "buying a new phone to preserve your old number", but not to the question asked. Two weeks and counting for Sander and he still has not taken any action to replace the phone. A cell for a 15yr old pimp is a necessity, so it appears HIDING the knowledge of a missing phone was more important than HAVING a phone.

...
And WHY is ALE asking Sander all these questions about cellphones in the first place? He was younger, and was from all accounts, at home and totally out of the loop on the night in question.
...

Sanders stated he was taking his fathers boat out the night of May 29th and asked Joran if he wanted to join the outing. Joran said he couldnt make it because he was going to C&C. I suspect J2K met up with Sander and the boat at Arashi Beach or at the boat launch area just south of there.

[igsigs]

Can you consider the C.Croes, Bubali(assumed), and E-mail story the same? I wanna know when Freedy spills the beans.

I must be loosing it because I don't know what you mean by the C.Croes, Bubali (assumed) email story?

Yer not losing it! Igsigs is not being clear.

You have the C.Croes story. The next day all 3 give a statement at Bubali(i am assuming this matches the C.Croes story). Then you have the Deepak e-mail. 3 stories. I am wondering if they can be considered the same version.

This interest is sparked by Sander's statements on 6/16 and 6/17 where he is admitting knowledge of only the original story. Whereas Freddy admits to being told the beach story. Is Sander still lying? Were Freddy and Sander told different stories?