Natalee Case Discussion #763 7/6 - 7/11

[johan555]

Renee Gielen my biggest girlfriend ha ha 

[Blonde]

I was just there it's back up

toodles Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:00 am   
Thank You Admin

For giving us back the NH board. Sorry for any part I took in having it closed.

Sorry its a bad time for you. Hope whatever it is will pass quickly. 

{{Edit to add post }}

[KarmaRoundUp]

This must be the driveway that the truck used

Thanks again Blonde and Rob
I see part of that blue iron fence to the left.Looks to me like the front of thier house faces a alley.....no wonder I was confused.

[ldstlou]

The Refugee's Natalee Holloway forum was locked this morning with this note:

Good Morning Monks~!  Klaas you are fast....I just got this via email....but you are faster!!!


 Natalee Holloway Case Discussion
locked for a few days. Does RU have more to offer>?
 
 79 728 Fri Jun 20, 2008 2:34 am

Interresting that with Renee Gielen's documentary still waiting to be aired that they close down the board.  Maybe they know Gielen is FOS too, lol 

maybe just like the tourists conventions that bombed...they decided to stop wasting money...lol

[KarmaRoundUp]

Acck!
Dang that's scarey.Poor joran look-a-like.All he needs is a wonky eye.

How UNFORTUNATE to be born to look like JORAN VAN DER SLOOT

with anorexia.

The really sad part, this kid is probably a whiz at Calculus...

or he can play the harmonica really well... or maybe even the triangle!!!!

Ya know??? He can probably tap dance and all that good chit... can fully

recite all the state capitals.... maybe he's even taking some acting classes.

...but he gets picked up by the neck at the door of the club for resembling Dr.

Frankenstein!!!!

I find life to be unfair sometimes.

 

Even though you can tell that these are pictures of two different people, it's stunning how much they really do look alike.

Imagine how much more difficult it would be if they had on caps.

Some of the pictures we've seen in the recent past were questioned as to whether or not they were of Joran (because you just couldn't put your finger on "why" something seemed a little off).  Maybe the pictures were of a "look-alike" with a cap on.

That's exactly what I was thinking Puzzler.Also this guy was in Bankok where joran supposedly was/is.If I were this kid I'd dye my hair blonde or red or tiger striped or something.

[LilPuma]

To be duped or not to be duped, that is the question.  When the pics of "Joran" in the baseball cap were posted, someone noticed a slight difference in the ear.  Also, GMBW posted that she had info that Joran was at Den Dolder, or whatever it's called, so people were looking for dates the pics in Thailland were taken.  According to me, the younger look-a-like doesn't have that hateful psychopath look to him.  But he looks enough like Joran to fool people, especially in a baseball cap.  The naked Joran looks like Joran to me.  Wasn't Joran caught smoking dope on a KLM flight out of Thailand?  Just throwing out what little I remember from these discussions in the hope it will jog a memory and help put he pieces together. 

I'm just doing a drive-by here so I have only two more things to add to the current discussions FWIW: 

1.  I thought Freddy lived next door.  The current charts and graphs with circles and arrows (  Alice's Restaurant) show him living a ways away. 

2.  To Rob:  Alex.  Who is the host of Jeopardy?  (He doesn't sell vowels.)   

Have a great day monkeys.   

[bleachedblack]

Sorry OT here, but if a Mod could possibly edit in missing persons:Keith Karnatz FOUND
Thanks

[bleachedblack]

The Refugee's Natalee Holloway forum was locked this morning with this note:

Back on

[BUCKSHOT]

Quick poll...
 
 
Crime Scene:
(1) Beach.
(2) VanderSloot home.
(3) Other... Where? ___________

Body Disposal:
(1) Same night.
(2) Following night.
(3) Days later.
(4) Other... When? ___________

Disposal Site:
(1) Ocean.
(2) Landfill.
(3) Incinerator.
(4) Other... Where? ___________

2
2
4 = Buried in Aruba.

2
2
4

I agree...

3 years of corruption, lies, mis-direction at the expense of family grieving for the loss of their daughter

MOO

So far it looks like most agree that her body was disposed of the 2nd night. 

I think that her body WAS disposed of the second night - but I think that was burial #2 and there was at least one more after that.

Do you think she was disposed (such an ugly word but that is the ugly truth of what they did) of in the ocean as the final disposal?  Was there enough evidence to justify the ocean searches or was it mis-direction?  Please, no flames, I would search land, ocean, everywhere no matter what.  I just feel she was buried on land (at least once).

I think the FINAL disposal was at sea. It didn't happen from a small boat. It was a boat that was big enough to carry a large fish trap. Flame away - I think she was in that trap The Persistence already found.

Crime Scene:
I believe that the Joran, Kalpoes are locals and would have no interest in hanging out on a beach. Therefore, a very conceivable crime scene could have been their swimming pool for a an after-hours pool party.  A drive, after departing the bar, would not have been out of the question so as to allow the drugs to take effect. All conveniences would have been at their disposal, with or without mommy present. I do not think it mattered if Anita was there or not. The only relevance it would have had is whether Paulus was able to enjoy/participate in socializing among the kids at the pool party with an impaired (tricked) sitting duck named Natalee. My uncertainty lies with the whereabouts of Paulus on this particular night. Was he (a) out and about that night having fun, (b) at home sleeping, or (c) socializing with the kids poolside.

Body Disposal:
I do not believe that it was the same night. I rule out that 100%. If Natalee died in the wee hours of the night approaching the next morning(sunrise), I feel that the body was on premises and those responsible were trying to figure out what in the hell to do with it. Meanwhile, they were going through normal routine. Joran, regardless, had to finish out exams at school and Paulus had to show up for work the next day. The body may have been stored in a shed, bathtub (rumored Valentijn chat), etc and dealt with early the next day after cutting their own days a little shorter than normal. Beth and company, in hindsight, had the Arubans shitting their pants at confronting them on such short notice. Paulus, especially, was probably shitting his pants. He had not had the chance to brief Anita, more than likely, and was in possession of a dead body. I am certain that plans were being well thought out at the time, but nowhere near ready for execution. Evidence was on their property and that is why it was heavily protected from a search, IMO. Body disposal, in my opinion, took place twice/a few times. The next night, after Paulus was tipped off, the body left his premises. Deepak and Joran could have been there, as suggested by their car being spotted. Those two got Natalee off of the premises and to whomever Paulus had arranged.

Disposal Site:
My opinion on this is that they would not take the chance that body parts would float ashore months/years later, nor would they take the chance that they would be discovered. Therefore, IMO the body has either been burned or buried professionally. This would eliminate the possibility of it ever being discovered.

2
2,3
2,3,4

[MumInOhio]

Lil Puma...Thanks on the Freddy living next door....Finngirl posted in Shango that her recollection was, and I hope I have this exactly right!, that their houses backed up to each other.

Hoping some of the other veterans will post what they can recall on this from back in 2005...TIA

[ldstlou]

Quick poll...
 
 
Crime Scene:
(1) Beach.
(2) VanderSloot home.
(3) Other... Where? ___________

Body Disposal:
(1) Same night.
(2) Following night.
(3) Days later.
(4) Other... When? ___________

Disposal Site:
(1) Ocean.
(2) Landfill.
(3) Incinerator.
(4) Other... Where? ___________

2
2
4 = Buried in Aruba.

2
2
4

I agree...

3 years of corruption, lies, mis-direction at the expense of family grieving for the loss of their daughter

MOO

So far it looks like most agree that her body was disposed of the 2nd night. 

I think that her body WAS disposed of the second night - but I think that was burial #2 and there was at least one more after that.

Do you think she was disposed (such an ugly word but that is the ugly truth of what they did) of in the ocean as the final disposal?  Was there enough evidence to justify the ocean searches or was it mis-direction?  Please, no flames, I would search land, ocean, everywhere no matter what.  I just feel she was buried on land (at least once).

I think the FINAL disposal was at sea. It didn't happen from a small boat. It was a boat that was big enough to carry a large fish trap. Flame away - I think she was in that trap The Persistence already found.

Crime Scene:
I believe that the Joran, Kalpoes are locals and would have no interest in hanging out on a beach. Therefore, a very conceivable crime scene could have been their swimming pool for a an after-hours pool party.  A drive, after departing the bar, would not have been out of the question so as to allow the drugs to take effect. All conveniences would have been at their disposal, with or without mommy present. I do not think it mattered if Anita was there or not. The only relevance it would have had is whether Paulus was able to enjoy/participate in socializing among the kids at the pool party with an impaired (tricked) sitting duck named Natalee. My uncertainty lies with the whereabouts of Paulus on this particular night. Was he (a) out and about that night having fun, (b) at home sleeping, or (c) socializing with the kids poolside.

Body Disposal:
I do not believe that it was the same night. I rule out that 100%. If Natalee died in the wee hours of the night approaching the next morning(sunrise), I feel that the body was on premises and those responsible were trying to figure out what in the hell to do with it. Meanwhile, they were going through normal routine. Joran, regardless, had to finish out exams at school and Paulus had to show up for work the next day. The body may have been stored in a shed, bathtub (rumored Valentijn chat), etc and dealt with early the next day after cutting their own days a little shorter than normal. Beth and company, in hindsight, had the Arubans shitting their pants at confronting them on such short notice. Paulus, especially, was probably shitting his pants. He had not had the chance to brief Anita, more than likely, and was in possession of a dead body. I am certain that plans were being well thought out at the time, but nowhere near ready for execution. Evidence was on their property and that is why it was heavily protected from a search, IMO. Body disposal, in my opinion, took place twice/a few times. The next night, after Paulus was tipped off, the body left his premises. Deepak and Joran could have been there, as suggested by their car being spotted. Those two got Natalee off of the premises and to whomever Paulus had arranged.

Disposal Site:
My opinion on this is that they would not take the chance that body parts would float ashore months/years later, nor would they take the chance that they would be discovered. Therefore, IMO the body has either been burned or buried professionally. This would eliminate the possibility of it ever being discovered.

2
2,3
2,3,4

I am starting to lean away from the ocean also...even as Natalee's FINAL resting place.

No way they had enough time that night. She may have been moved, I believe she was...in Deepak's car. Too much circumstancial evidence that there had been blood in deepak's car.

Night Beth arrived, she stated in her book that deepak and joran were not dressed to go to a casino, they were in scruffy t-shirts and shorts. I thought I remembered also in the early days her or Jug saying they were also dirty and sweaty. Jug to this day regrets not looking in the trunk of deepak's car that morning.

Tim discussed the "gravesight" that he suspected had been a temp place Natalee was probably placed.

Even Dompig said he believed she had been buried and moved at least twice I believe.

Famous "rock scenes"

Family being lead through wild goose chases through crack houses. We know darned well she wasn't there or alive and so did the ALE!!

Have to keep reading Dave's book...but didn't he discuss seeing a police car slamming trunk closed and feeling suspicious about what was going on? Was this the spot that Tim thought Natalee may have been?

I think we have to look at renho better too. It is obvious now she has an agenda. That agenda is that Natalee is alive now...why? Why is she working so darned hard to sell her agenda. Guilt? What did she do those first weeks she has to justify? Could it be they were close to finding Natalee when she sent them running to the courthouse because they had Natalee's body? Had they found her and decided it was best to keep that fact hidden? Was she in on the decision and the conspiracy to hide Natalee forever? Why? What did they discover when and if they found Natalee's body? We know at the time that the forces that be were desparately trying to "save face"....their safe and happy island was being destroyed..in their opinion.

[Bearlyhere]

Acck!
Dang that's scarey.Poor joran look-a-like.All he needs is a wonky eye.

How UNFORTUNATE to be born to look like JORAN VAN DER SLOOT

with anorexia.

The really sad part, this kid is probably a whiz at Calculus...

or he can play the harmonica really well... or maybe even the triangle!!!!

Ya know??? He can probably tap dance and all that good chit... can fully

recite all the state capitals.... maybe he's even taking some acting classes.

...but he gets picked up by the neck at the door of the club for resembling Dr.

Frankenstein!!!!

I find life to be unfair sometimes.

 

Even though you can tell that these are pictures of two different people, it's stunning how much they really do look alike.

Imagine how much more difficult it would be if they had on caps.

Some of the pictures we've seen in the recent past were questioned as to whether or not they were of Joran (because you just couldn't put your finger on "why" something seemed a little off).  Maybe the pictures were of a "look-alike" with a cap on.

That's exactly what I was thinking Puzzler.Also this guy was in Bankok where joran supposedly was/is.If I were this kid I'd dye my hair blonde or red or tiger striped or something.

He better not gain any weight or he'll be stuffed faster than a turkey at Thanksgiving.

[ldstlou]

Speaking of renho and her agenda....

lot of talk at RU about DEA agent Williams again. Man that guy is an enigma to me!!! We never have figured his role out!!! 

So renho is saying he is a consulate now. renhos mom saying leave the guy alone. Elaine saying she has known him for years? So if Elaine has known him for years...he must live in Aruba correct?

He may have been interviewed for the "crockermentary"

Who in heck is this guy???!!!! Why does he keep coming up and what was his role?

[mrskub]

Is anyone aware of any connections or friendships between Paulus and a funeral home/funeral director? I worked in the funeral industry for many years. I can attest how easy it would be to place a second body into a casket, underneath the visible one. The visible remains are placed on a thin mattress which can be raised and lowered, leaving a rather large hollow space underneath. It also lends credence to the cremation theory.

My thinking is, whatever Joran says, the opposite is more likely to be the truth. If he says she was disposed of in the ocean, I could bet she wasn't. Yet, his self assured attitude that he will never be proven guilty and the "no body, no crime" attitude of Paulus, leads me to believe she was either placed in a casket with someone else being buried at that time OR cremated.

[klaasend]

Speaking of renho and her agenda....

lot of talk at RU about DEA agent Williams again. Man that guy is an enigma to me!!! We never have figured his role out!!! 

So renho is saying he is a consulate now. renhos mom saying leave the guy alone. Elaine saying she has known him for years? So if Elaine has known him for years...he must live in Aruba correct?

He may have been interviewed for the "crockermentary"

Who in heck is this guy???!!!! Why does he keep coming up and what was his role?

I think ElaineS was talking about knowing Charles Croes for years, not Eric Williams.  Also you are aware that ElaineS does not live in Aruba, she lives in the US.

I agree, we need to find out more about Eric Williams.  Pita posted yesterday that an Eric Williams was a spokesperson for the DEA back in 2001.  We need to find out more and what ties he has to Renfro.

[Bearlyhere]

Lil Puma...Thanks on the Freddy living next door....Finngirl posted in Shango that her recollection was, and I hope I have this exactly right!, that their houses backed up to each other.

Hoping some of the other veterans will post what they can recall on this from back in 2005...TIA

I thought he lived next door.  Disclaimer:  IIRC, the source of that was JVDS.

[Blonde]

JMO, I thought  the DEA agent Williams  just happenned to be in Aruba on vacation and wanted to help out the family.

This is from RU so take it for what it's worth

Natalee framed for drug possession--more blackmail
I am moving this to it's own thread. One thing that we have not explored is the possibility that Natalee has been in jail on drug charges on another Dutch island or in Holland. The entire investigation could have always been about Beth and Jug.

I believe that this political scam is a very elaborately concocted scheme that controls the behavior of all of the players in it through blackmail.

Glenda posted:

Because Beth had told Julia that Natalee was being held against her will and being injected with Heroin and if the police were to find her first, they might arrest Natalee instead of getting her the medical attention that she so desperately needed and she could die.

Another one of my theories is as you know that:

Natalee was framed for drug possession. Hypothetically somebody could have given Natalee a gift of a stuffed animal such as a bear. Upon arrival in customs, a tip could have caused Natalee to be searched. Or a tip caused a search of Natalee's room in order to arrest her in Aruba. A kilo of cocaine in a stuffed animal would have weighed say 2 1/2 pounds. Setting Natalee up for a drug bust could have been a vendetta against Jug if he had business dealings in Columbia that were sour.

According to the rumor on Moomba beach, Natalee was afraid of two or three guys. Were they big black guys or were they big guys in dark clothes? Rumors get changed as they are repeated.

Many statements of J2K as reported in the press are not correct. Did the ALE leak false statements to try to shake out who these guys were? Or did they know that they were DEA agents and that they wanted to send the message that we know back off.

So was Beth trying to get Natalee out of there before she was arrested for possession?

Supporting evidence:
1. We have been told that DEA agent Eric Williams arrived on the scene as a result of connections that were made by Jug Twitty and the Twitty family.
2. Van Der Straten makes these strange mistakes in English sentax that he did not make in prior sentences.

[ldstlou]

Speaking of renho and her agenda....

lot of talk at RU about DEA agent Williams again. Man that guy is an enigma to me!!! We never have figured his role out!!! 

So renho is saying he is a consulate now. renhos mom saying leave the guy alone. Elaine saying she has known him for years? So if Elaine has known him for years...he must live in Aruba correct?

He may have been interviewed for the "crockermentary"

Who in heck is this guy???!!!! Why does he keep coming up and what was his role?

I think ElaineS was talking about knowing Charles Croes for years, not Eric Williams.  Also you are aware that ElaineS does not live in Aruba, she lives in the US.

I agree, we need to find out more about Eric Williams.  Pita posted yesterday that an Eric Williams was a spokesperson for the DEA back in 2001.  We need to find out more and what ties he has to Renfro.

oops...misread that Klaas...thanks for correcting me.

I knew ElaineS didn't live there but visited alot. I figured if she knew Williams it was from her visits to Aruba and not from living in the US.

Can we find out if he is a consulate and maybe Destiny can do her famous Ringy-ding-ding..lol

[MumInOhio]

Lil Puma...Thanks on the Freddy living next door....Finngirl posted in Shango that her recollection was, and I hope I have this exactly right!, that their houses backed up to each other.

Hoping some of the other veterans will post what they can recall on this from back in 2005...TIA

I thought he lived next door.  Disclaimer:  IIRC, the source of that was JVDS.

Thanks....I may have to go back and read the old threads....Totally discard what Melody, Bondia, Scuba and a few others said...LOL

[Blonde]

brought forward for Crazybaby

pg. 32 Beth's book: Beth talks to Coach in Aruba and he found DEA Agent.


ERIC WILLIAMS ON THE CASE UP UNTIL JULIA RENFRO PASTED HIS PICTURE IN HER NEWSPAPER JULY 22, 20005

Bo Dietl: "We waited at the airport it was about two hours after the plane had landed...the FBI put him on a watchlist... Mister Joran here.
 After leaving customs where he was held for over 2 hours for appearing in a FBI watchlist



In the letter, Minister Croes promised that the Dutch agents will get all the cooperation from the investigating-team and the management. Also in the letter it appears that the Minister also made an official request to the Interpol to review the dossier. "As requested by the PG, the Interpol is asked to try to get hold of the not yet released informations by the FBI", wrote the Minister.


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation.



FBI KNOWS THE TRUTH but they can't HELP