Natalee Case Discussion #763 7/6 - 7/11

[KarmaRoundUp]

Acck!
Dang that's scarey.Poor joran look-a-like.All he needs is a wonky eye.

How UNFORTUNATE to be born to look like JORAN VAN DER SLOOT

with anorexia.

The really sad part, this kid is probably a whiz at Calculus...

or he can play the harmonica really well... or maybe even the triangle!!!!

Ya know??? He can probably tap dance and all that good chit... can fully

recite all the state capitals.... maybe he's even taking some acting classes.

...but he gets picked up by the neck at the door of the club for resembling Dr.

Frankenstein!!!!

I find life to be unfair sometimes.

 

Even though you can tell that these are pictures of two different people, it's stunning how much they really do look alike.

Imagine how much more difficult it would be if they had on caps.

Some of the pictures we've seen in the recent past were questioned as to whether or not they were of Joran (because you just couldn't put your finger on "why" something seemed a little off).  Maybe the pictures were of a "look-alike" with a cap on.

That's exactly what I was thinking Puzzler.Also this guy was in Bankok where joran supposedly was/is.If I were this kid I'd dye my hair blonde or red or tiger striped or something.

He better not gain any weight or he'll be stuffed faster than a turkey at Thanksgiving.

Exactly Bearly
I think for this kid's sake he should have his friends take joran's name off that image of him.Makes me wonder why they would brag about something like this.

[ldstlou]

renho is such an ass....excuse my language

There is a Dr. Eric Williams that was consulate of Trinidad...I am sure she said Dea agent was a consultate to bullshit everyone.

ok...so why is she sending out disinformation and why is her mother saying to leave the guy alone??!!!

Hi Lisa...somehow I missed Pita's post yesterday. So am just going by what is being posted now.

In his book Joran refers to a Judge Williams and that has always bothered me. Both he and Paulus refer to an FBI agent in the Statements, and I am pretty sure that Paulus calls him Williams.  I will check in a little while.

Hey Sweetie!!

hmmmmm...

Always bothered me that so many at RU seemed so invested in making it appear that one of the people with Beth acted as though they were an FBI agent. Was this designed to throw us off?

hmmmmmm!!!!

from paulus 6/18 statement..he did think Williams was FBI

A man named WILLIAMS, who later turned out to be an FBI-agent had taken Joran apart to talk to Joran.

[Tylergal]

"It was my understanding that joran did not have exams that week.He may have went to school tho but was maybe late for school and slept most of the day there at school.joran and paulus both were awake late that sunday night and I find it weird no one talks about taking a nap that monday.I know that's the first thing I think of if I had hardly any sleep the night before."

Joran had one exam that week, his AP English exam, to which Julia Renfro, the mouthpiece of tourism and investment stated he had "maxed" based on her conversations with Anita.  However, she stated that within a few days of the AP test.  Those of who have actually had kids who have taken these exams knows for a fact that these test results are not given to the student nor the school until a few days before entrance into the facility to which the information is to be given.  The names of the schools (each one costs that you send the information to) are chosen at the time the test is applied for.  Just prior to the beginning of the school year, these results are given to the university and the student simultaneously.  When they stated Joran had "maxed" the test, they were either lying or were second-guessing that this shimmering jewel of Anita's imagination (remember Anita had never had access to schools in the USA where the mix of multiculture students such as the Vietnamese, the Middle Eastern, Indian, Jewish and little smart blond-haired boys of European origin can make the people in Aurba look like Ned in the first reader) had assumed he would max it.

In fact, the test is scored 1-5.  The Ivy League and Kudzu League schools will not accept anything less than a 4-5 and the state universities will accept no less than a 3-4.  Joran scored a 2; yes, he really maxed it.  He probably was able to put his name on the test and translate a few sentences and beyond that, he was lost.  So much for the smartest boy on Aurba, whose AP tests were so paltry compared to Natalee's that it was embarrassing.

[MumInOhio]

[

I think we have to look at renho better too. It is obvious now she has an agenda. That agenda is that Natalee is alive now...why? Why is she working so darned hard to sell her agenda. Guilt? What did she do those first weeks she has to justify? Could it be they were close to finding Natalee when she sent them running to the courthouse because they had Natalee's body? Had they found her and decided it was best to keep that fact hidden? Was she in on the decision and the conspiracy to hide Natalee forever? Why? What did they discover when and if they found Natalee's body? We know at the time that the forces that be were desparately trying to "save face"....their safe and happy island was being destroyed..in their opinion.

aruba's greatest feat would be to convince the world that natalee is still alive somewhere, anywhere, in the world.  it would get aruba and jp2k off the hook and salvage their tourist oriented "safe island" theme that they've got millions of dollars and countless lies invested in.
dennisintn

Just like many campaigns for people and organized thinking, they hire a mouth piece who can spew the message and direct it in the way they want it to be heard.  For instance, Julia Renfro, who had the connections with the newspaper also understood the American think and she understood how easily led are not only Arubans but Americans.  In collusion with public policy and campaign offices, marketers on the East Coast, USA, she quickly turned her campaign into something international, like any campaign, i.e., "returning to the ice age," in the 1980s to the "global warming" of today, which are designed with the thought in mind that the bellwether can  make you believe what they are saying with the right platform and message in order to advance their campaign which was definitely to discredit Beth, Natalee and thereby enhance investment and tourism on third-world Aruba.  If advanced by the correct people, the sheep will fall in line.  I think Julia Renfro was bellwether for this campaign against Natalee and Beth, and at some point, even the least suspecting Americans and obviously the Arubans will buy into it.  It is like a ball rolling downhill.  The faster it goes, the faster it goes, the more it gathers along the way. 

Julia Renfro was the castrated sheep (goat in her case), (a term describing the bellwether),  who passively and actively can get a sense to describe events, social, political or geographic in microcosms which can spread to a wider demographic.  So the constituency or citizen Aruba/American thinking would come to mirror Julia Renfro, the bellwether.

People begin to believe it and they begin to think anyone against it is either stupid or ill educated and can point to a million events to prove what they believe.  Of course, not taken into consideration is that 10,000,000 other items can also disprove that but before the 10,000,000 get out of bed the 1,000,000 have marched across the globe spewing propaganda. 

Aruba used Julia and its government employees each morning to come to the various blogs and/or speak with the various hosts of TV programs to become the mantra for the campaign against Beth and Natalee, to prevent any belief that Natalee had done anything but runaway from the evil Beth and Jug.
[/quote]


Hi Tyler...nice to see you...Interesting to note that Simian spent a lot of his work day posting on the FP of SM...

[Tylergal]

Hi, Lala's, LDStLou, Mum in Ohio, et al.  Yes, Simian was indeed a government employee.  She was and also is a very smart person with a good pedigree which extends to the homeland. 

[KarmaRoundUp]

Is anyone aware of any connections or friendships between Paulus and a funeral home/funeral director? I worked in the funeral industry for many years. I can attest how easy it would be to place a second body into a casket, underneath the visible one. The visible remains are placed on a thin mattress which can be raised and lowered, leaving a rather large hollow space underneath. It also lends credence to the cremation theory.

My thinking is, whatever Joran says, the opposite is more likely to be the truth. If he says she was disposed of in the ocean, I could bet she wasn't. Yet, his self assured attitude that he will never be proven guilty and the "no body, no crime" attitude of Paulus, leads me to believe she was either placed in a casket with someone else being buried at that time OR cremated.

There has been talk about paulus having something to do with the funeral home owned by Weaver's.That has always been in my mind too.....body buried under another body at the cemetary.Or creamation....there has always been talk about IF aruba has one,if it is only for pets.

[ldstlou]

[

I think we have to look at renho better too. It is obvious now she has an agenda. That agenda is that Natalee is alive now...why? Why is she working so darned hard to sell her agenda. Guilt? What did she do those first weeks she has to justify? Could it be they were close to finding Natalee when she sent them running to the courthouse because they had Natalee's body? Had they found her and decided it was best to keep that fact hidden? Was she in on the decision and the conspiracy to hide Natalee forever? Why? What did they discover when and if they found Natalee's body? We know at the time that the forces that be were desparately trying to "save face"....their safe and happy island was being destroyed..in their opinion.

aruba's greatest feat would be to convince the world that natalee is still alive somewhere, anywhere, in the world.  it would get aruba and jp2k off the hook and salvage their tourist oriented "safe island" theme that they've got millions of dollars and countless lies invested in.
dennisintn

Just like many campaigns for people and organized thinking, they hire a mouth piece who can spew the message and direct it in the way they want it to be heard.  For instance, Julia Renfro, who had the connections with the newspaper also understood the American think and she understood how easily led are not only Arubans but Americans.  In collusion with public policy and campaign offices, marketers on the East Coast, USA, she quickly turned her campaign into something international, like any campaign, i.e., "returning to the ice age," in the 1980s to the "global warming" of today, which are designed with the thought in mind that the bellwether can  make you believe what they are saying with the right platform and message in order to advance their campaign which was definitely to discredit Beth, Natalee and thereby enhance investment and tourism on third-world Aruba.  If advanced by the correct people, the sheep will fall in line.  I think Julia Renfro was bellwether for this campaign against Natalee and Beth, and at some point, even the least suspecting Americans and obviously the Arubans will buy into it.  It is like a ball rolling downhill.  The faster it goes, the faster it goes, the more it gathers along the way. 

Julia Renfro was the castrated sheep (goat in her case), (a term describing the bellwether),  who passively and actively can get a sense to describe events, social, political or geographic in microcosms which can spread to a wider demographic.  So the constituency or citizen Aruba/American thinking would come to mirror Julia Renfro, the bellwether.

People begin to believe it and they begin to think anyone against it is either stupid or ill educated and can point to a million events to prove what they believe.  Of course, not taken into consideration is that 10,000,000 other items can also disprove that but before the 10,000,000 get out of bed the 1,000,000 have marched across the globe spewing propaganda. 

Aruba used Julia and its government employees each morning to come to the various blogs and/or speak with the various hosts of TV programs to become the mantra for the campaign against Beth and Natalee, to prevent any belief that Natalee had done anything but runaway from the evil Beth and Jug.
[/quote]


makes sense Tyler. And I understand why they would pick reho, she had established a relationship with Beth, was in the media, was American...but what was in it for renho? What was her motivation? Why did she turn so quickly on Beth...when it truely appeared at the beginning that she sympathized with Beth...especially as a mother. So what is her motive for the dis-information campaign and why is she still so deeply invested over 3 years later?

Who was the other reporter? That was related to kalpoes I think? Began with an s...ooohhhh....you know who I mean...she eventually moved on...so why is renho still in the thick of it? Who or what is keeping her so deeply invested in the case?

[ldstlou]

Hi, Lala's, LDStLou, Mum in Ohio, et al.  Yes, Simian was indeed a government employee.  She was and also is a very smart person with a good pedigree which extends to the homeland. 

Hi Tyler!!!

OK...spill the beans!!! lol

I am lost when it comes to simian/shango!!!

[dennisintn]

[

I think we have to look at renho better too. It is obvious now she has an agenda. That agenda is that Natalee is alive now...why? Why is she working so darned hard to sell her agenda. Guilt? What did she do those first weeks she has to justify? Could it be they were close to finding Natalee when she sent them running to the courthouse because they had Natalee's body? Had they found her and decided it was best to keep that fact hidden? Was she in on the decision and the conspiracy to hide Natalee forever? Why? What did they discover when and if they found Natalee's body? We know at the time that the forces that be were desparately trying to "save face"....their safe and happy island was being destroyed..in their opinion.

aruba's greatest feat would be to convince the world that natalee is still alive somewhere, anywhere, in the world.  it would get aruba and jp2k off the hook and salvage their tourist oriented "safe island" theme that they've got millions of dollars and countless lies invested in.
dennisintn

Just like many campaigns for people and organized thinking, they hire a mouth piece who can spew the message and direct it in the way they want it to be heard.  For instance, Julia Renfro, who had the connections with the newspaper also understood the American think and she understood how easily led are not only Arubans but Americans.  In collusion with public policy and campaign offices, marketers on the East Coast, USA, she quickly turned her campaign into something international, like any campaign, i.e., "returning to the ice age," in the 1980s to the "global warming" of today, which are designed with the thought in mind that the bellwether can  make you believe what they are saying with the right platform and message in order to advance their campaign which was definitely to discredit Beth, Natalee and thereby enhance investment and tourism on third-world Aruba.  If advanced by the correct people, the sheep will fall in line.  I think Julia Renfro was bellwether for this campaign against Natalee and Beth, and at some point, even the least suspecting Americans and obviously the Arubans will buy into it.  It is like a ball rolling downhill.  The faster it goes, the faster it goes, the more it gathers along the way. 

Julia Renfro was the castrated sheep (goat in her case), (a term describing the bellwether),  who passively and actively can get a sense to describe events, social, political or geographic in microcosms which can spread to a wider demographic.  So the constituency or citizen Aruba/American thinking would come to mirror Julia Renfro, the bellwether.

People begin to believe it and they begin to think anyone against it is either stupid or ill educated and can point to a million events to prove what they believe.  Of course, not taken into consideration is that 10,000,000 other items can also disprove that but before the 10,000,000 get out of bed the 1,000,000 have marched across the globe spewing propaganda. 

Aruba used Julia and its government employees each morning to come to the various blogs and/or speak with the various hosts of TV programs to become the mantra for the campaign against Beth and Natalee, to prevent any belief that Natalee had done anything but runaway from the evil Beth and Jug.
[/quote]

tylergal, you are absolutely right.  the posters would have their "message for the day" posted before the day was begun and all the messages were exactly the same for that day.  and to compound their effect, each of their posters had at least two "monikers" for each blog or forum so they could further fortify the messages, discussing and agreeing back and forth like they were 2 or more like minded people.  their efforts were so tightly managed that the system stuck out like a sore thumb within weeks of them starting the campaign.
dennisintn

[Tylergal]

Is anyone aware of any connections or friendships between Paulus and a funeral home/funeral director? I worked in the funeral industry for many years. I can attest how easy it would be to place a second body into a casket, underneath the visible one. The visible remains are placed on a thin mattress which can be raised and lowered, leaving a rather large hollow space underneath. It also lends credence to the cremation theory.

My thinking is, whatever Joran says, the opposite is more likely to be the truth. If he says she was disposed of in the ocean, I could bet she wasn't. Yet, his self assured attitude that he will never be proven guilty and the "no body, no crime" attitude of Paulus, leads me to believe she was either placed in a casket with someone else being buried at that time OR cremated.

There has been talk about paulus having something to do with the funeral home owned by Weaver's.That has always been in my mind too.....body buried under another body at the cemetary.Or creamation....there has always been talk about IF aruba has one,if it is only for pets.

My understanding of Aruba is that the gene pool is very small but spreads wide and long, and any who do not belong, just do not belong, but those who belong to the very tight circle which is very broad in Aurba, can get anything done they want done, because money talks and truth walks.  Julia Renfro was definitely a mouthpiece for the money people and Paulus, long their puppet, who had the ability to license or not, was the benefactor of this, plus given the fact that he was the QA officer for the hospital there, could make things happen for the funeral industry and the hospital, doctors, or not.  As a member of the most ruthless profession known since the beginning, the lawyer-wanna-be-judge, has access to every iota of information, be it good or bad, about the citizens on Aruba, past and present, including the mouthpiece which means he has sway over the funeral home, the media and justice.   One does not have to be a king in order to work the system.  With the help of fthe media (which is not allowed to be a free press/media in Aruba based on its form of government), then the mouthpiece can spew whatever it is told but it must be the best at it and that was Julia.  Go back and look at the obits for Aruba (young people in particular) who died about the same time Natalee's parents arrived in Aruba.

[KarmaRoundUp]

Speaking of renho and her agenda....

lot of talk at RU about DEA agent Williams again. Man that guy is an enigma to me!!! We never have figured his role out!!! 

So renho is saying he is a consulate now. renhos mom saying leave the guy alone. Elaine saying she has known him for years? So if Elaine has known him for years...he must live in Aruba correct?

He may have been interviewed for the "crockermentary"

Who in heck is this guy???!!!! Why does he keep coming up and what was his role?

I think ElaineS was talking about knowing Charles Croes for years, not Eric Williams.  Also you are aware that ElaineS does not live in Aruba, she lives in the US.

I agree, we need to find out more about Eric Williams.  Pita posted yesterday that an Eric Williams was a spokesperson for the DEA back in 2001.  We need to find out more and what ties he has to Renfro.

I would also like to know(from Beth or Jug)if anyone actually saw an ID card for Eric Williams.

[MumInOhio]

Rob......you posted something very interesting in Shango a couple of weeks back.  IIRC it was about Checkme..., some sort of definition...If you see this, would you mind reposting, please?  Otherwise I will look for it later...Thanks in Advance!

[KarmaRoundUp]

brought forward for Crazybaby

pg. 32 Beth's book: Beth talks to Coach in Aruba and he found DEA Agent.


ERIC WILLIAMS ON THE CASE UP UNTIL JULIA RENFRO PASTED HIS PICTURE IN HER NEWSPAPER JULY 22, 20005
Bo Dietl: "We waited at the airport it was about two hours after the plane had landed...the FBI put him on a watchlist... Mister Joran here.
 After leaving customs where he was held for over 2 hours for appearing in a FBI watchlist



In the letter, Minister Croes promised that the Dutch agents will get all the cooperation from the investigating-team and the management. Also in the letter it appears that the Minister also made an official request to the Interpol to review the dossier. "As requested by the PG, the Interpol is asked to try to get hold of the not yet released informations by the FBI", wrote the Minister.


Art Wood
'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'
December 1, 2005

ART WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Absolutely. Absolutely. There's a lot that Americans can do through the State Department. I want to remind everybody that Natalee Holloway was a U.S. citizen. Once the Aruban authorities are done investigating this case, the FBI can still conduct an investigation.



FBI KNOWS THE TRUTH but they can't HELP

Blonde,who said that above about renskank putting Eric's pic in the paper?

[ldstlou]

Speaking of renho and her agenda....

lot of talk at RU about DEA agent Williams again. Man that guy is an enigma to me!!! We never have figured his role out!!! 

So renho is saying he is a consulate now. renhos mom saying leave the guy alone. Elaine saying she has known him for years? So if Elaine has known him for years...he must live in Aruba correct?

He may have been interviewed for the "crockermentary"

Who in heck is this guy???!!!! Why does he keep coming up and what was his role?

I think ElaineS was talking about knowing Charles Croes for years, not Eric Williams.  Also you are aware that ElaineS does not live in Aruba, she lives in the US.

I agree, we need to find out more about Eric Williams.  Pita posted yesterday that an Eric Williams was a spokesperson for the DEA back in 2001.  We need to find out more and what ties he has to Renfro.

I would also like to know(from Beth or Jug)if anyone actually saw an ID card for Eric Williams.

I asked Jug back in Nov/Dec...no, never saw an ID...The family did NOT know this guy prior to that night and Jug doesn't know to this day if he is a good guy or bad guy.

[Tylergal]

LTSTLOU

Renfro was never on Beth's side.  Remember "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."  She was merely schmoozing up to Beth to try and get any information out of her that she could use against her.  She was never Beth's friend and she always knew that Natalee would not be found.  She was not operating from a vacuum.  It was not until Jug figured her out that she let it be known that her intentions were not honorable.  I think Jug probably had clues all along but until the final confrontation and her leading them to the court house, perhaps Beth, in her desire and shock to want something, anything, felt she could trust a mother near her own age whose children could fall prey to such, but Julia was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER Beth's friend.  I think that Jug figured this out when he did is exemplary of good old American analytical thinking. I just wish that the wolves had not come out so early before the good guys had a chance to get their bearings.  That Beth was there so early on is to her credit but her desire to believe Julia was there to help her was based on her grief and shock.  I think she can probably, in retrospect, see that Julia was "sleeping with the enemy" all along.

[Lala'sMom]

Hi, Lala's, LDStLou, Mum in Ohio, et al.  Yes, Simian was indeed a government employee.  She was and also is a very smart person with a good pedigree which extends to the homeland. 

Um...er...actually Simian was a guy.

[ldstlou]

LTSTLOU

Renfro was never on Beth's side.  Remember "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."  She was merely schmoozing up to Beth to try and get any information out of her that she could use against her.  She was never Beth's friend and she always knew that Natalee would not be found.  She was not operating from a vacuum.  It was not until Jug figured her out that she let it be known that her intentions were not honorable.  I think Jug probably had clues all along but until the final confrontation and her leading them to the court house, perhaps Beth, in her desire and shock to want something, anything, felt she could trust a mother near her own age whose children could fall prey to such, but Julia was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER Beth's friend.  I think that Jug figured this out when he did is exemplary of good old American analytical thinking. I just wish that the wolves had not come out so early before the good guys had a chance to get their bearings.  That Beth was there so early on is to her credit but her desire to believe Julia was there to help her was based on her grief and shock.  I think she can probably, in retrospect, see that Julia was "sleeping with the enemy" all along.

hmmm

When I say "friend at first" I was referring to the 2st day or two!! lol Not much longer after that!!!

But I can see your point. May not have been even the 1st day or 2...but I still think maybe so. For instance, she did out vander straaten right away for not allowing Beth to say "kidnapped" on the posters...some other comment also against van der straaten. If she were sincere the first couple of days...didn't take her long to turn on Beth that is for sure.

[ldstlou]

Hi, Lala's, LDStLou, Mum in Ohio, et al.  Yes, Simian was indeed a government employee.  She was and also is a very smart person with a good pedigree which extends to the homeland. 

Um...er...actually Simian was a guy.

lol...still not resolved I take it!!!

[truthseeker2]

LTSTLOU

Renfro was never on Beth's side.  Remember "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."  She was merely schmoozing up to Beth to try and get any information out of her that she could use against her.  She was never Beth's friend and she always knew that Natalee would not be found.  She was not operating from a vacuum.  It was not until Jug figured her out that she let it be known that her intentions were not honorable.  I think Jug probably had clues all along but until the final confrontation and her leading them to the court house, perhaps Beth, in her desire and shock to want something, anything, felt she could trust a mother near her own age whose children could fall prey to such, but Julia was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER Beth's friend.  I think that Jug figured this out when he did is exemplary of good old American analytical thinking. I just wish that the wolves had not come out so early before the good guys had a chance to get their bearings.  That Beth was there so early on is to her credit but her desire to believe Julia was there to help her was based on her grief and shock.  I think she can probably, in retrospect, see that Julia was "sleeping with the enemy" all along.

I think you have nailed it.  Julia was not one bit interested in 'helping' Natalee's family.  And I think the monkeys are right to keep asking why Julia is still so involved in this three years later.  I agree with many here....she knows something...she knows something bad happened.

[ldstlou]

LTSTLOU

Renfro was never on Beth's side.  Remember "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer."  She was merely schmoozing up to Beth to try and get any information out of her that she could use against her.  She was never Beth's friend and she always knew that Natalee would not be found.  She was not operating from a vacuum.  It was not until Jug figured her out that she let it be known that her intentions were not honorable.  I think Jug probably had clues all along but until the final confrontation and her leading them to the court house, perhaps Beth, in her desire and shock to want something, anything, felt she could trust a mother near her own age whose children could fall prey to such, but Julia was NEVER, NEVER, NEVER Beth's friend.  I think that Jug figured this out when he did is exemplary of good old American analytical thinking. I just wish that the wolves had not come out so early before the good guys had a chance to get their bearings.  That Beth was there so early on is to her credit but her desire to believe Julia was there to help her was based on her grief and shock.  I think she can probably, in retrospect, see that Julia was "sleeping with the enemy" all along.

I think you have nailed it.  Julia was not one bit interested in 'helping' Natalee's family.  And I think the monkeys are right to keep asking why Julia is still so involved in this three years later.  I agree with many here....she knows something...she knows something bad happened.

I think she knows it ALL!!! Including who helped dissappear Natalee