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Author Topic: Right to Life  (Read 16387 times)
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Anna
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« on: August 31, 2006, 08:44:16 PM »

.
Not sure if any others are following this situation but this sounds like very good news.  Now if only the individual countries will not change it all around.  Shocked

I believe without the Right to Life, the other rights really don't  mean much.  That is for sure the bottom line that no one should be able to take away from another.

But this sounds like a far more reasonable stand than the "anything goes" suggested by those countries that seem to want to kill as many as quickly as possible with medical assistance.  Note the guarantee of food and water for the disabled but I wonder to what extent that will actually be incorporated into the final document.  But it is a good start and an improvement over previously considered drafts.

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UN Treaty Rejects New Rights to Abortion, Euthanasia and Homosexuality

By Susan Yoshihara, PhD

     (NEW YORK — C-FAM) The just-concluded UN meeting on the rights of persons with disabilities was on balance a success for pro-lifers. Negotiations came down to the wire on the last day of the proceedings, after delegates hammered out the issue of “reproductive health” round the clock for the last two days. The ad hoc committee adopted the full treaty late on Friday night, completing four years of negotiations.

     Pro-life nations managed to keep some of the worst language out of the treaty, despite enormous pressure from liberal governments. Any right new right for persons to “experience their sexuality” and “have sexual and other intimate relationships” was completely rejected. Also, delegates largely replaced the ambiguous word “gender” with the word “sex”. While UN documents have never defined the term as meaning anything other than “male” and “female,” Muslim countries urged the change to avoid misinterpretation of the word “gender” to advance the growing homosexual agenda at the UN.

     Another defeat for the pro-death side was the inclusion of the right of disabled to food and fluid, denying euthanasia proponents legal footing to starve or dehydrate the disabled to death. Coupled with the reinsertion of the word “worth” back into the traditional UN phrase “dignity and worth,” and along with the adoption of a separate article guaranteeing the right to life, the treaty reaffirmed in law the inherent value of human life. These pro-life wins undercut attempts to use the new treaty to justify the “death with dignity” movement and assisted suicide.

     Finally, though the term “sexual and reproductive health” made it into the final document, it only came after all sides of the abortion debate reached consensus that the phrase did not include abortion. This echoes the results of the debate a year ago at the Beijing+10 meeting addressing the status of women.

     Delegates told the Friday Fax they accepted the term because they were confident it would not be misinterpreted as including abortion. The U.S. sounded a note of warning in its closing statement, saying that the treaty “cannot be interpreted to constitute support, endorsement, or promotion of abortion.” The Holy See went further and objected to the phrase all together, despite the fact that their objection went unrecognized until after the gavel came down. During deliberations, the Holy See consistently argued against putting a legally imprecise and undefined term into binding international law.  

     Likewise, conservative UN experts remain concerned because the phrase continues to be misinterpreted by some UN agencies, members of human rights compliance committees, as well as radical NGOs.

     The treaty will now be drafted and approved in various languages before it goes to the General Assembly for final adoption by member states.  The General Assembly convenes on September 12th.    
Copyright 2006 - C-FAM (Catholic Family & Human Rights Institute). Permission granted for unlimited use. Credit required.
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LouiseVargas
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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2006, 02:52:54 AM »

Dear Anna,

I've been known to read posts and totally misconstrue them. I hope I'm not doing that now. I want to make a couple of comments that I think relate to your post.

I'm not paying any attention to the homosexuality issue because I feel that what goes on in the bedroom between two consenting adults should be of no importance whatsoever to the world. What if the bedroom issue is taken further and some entity would say, "Men must take the top position and it is forbidden for women to be on top." It sounds silly but we cannot have anyone dictating what goes on in the bedroom.

I have never had an abortion. I got pregnant at 16. The boy's family was Catholic. My mother and his parents had a meeting on what to do, and his Catholic mother cried out "abortion." (It was not legal then but you could find someone, I guess for money.) My mother said, "Abortion? Over my dead body." So I was sent to a Salvation Army home for unwed mothers, where I stayed until I had the baby. I went into labor at 4 a.m. and went through it all alone and gave birth at 11 a.m., December 31, 1961. I was never allowed to touch the baby. My mother made me give him up for adoption. He was adopted by a rich family, he had the best of everything, he became an MD and finally found me in 1996 when he was 35, married with 4 children. The relationship is a long story which doesn't have anything to do with this subject. Altho I would never have an abortion, I believe in the right to choose. Let me tell you, in that home for unwed mothers, there were 11 year old girls raped by their fathers. They were children with undeveloped breasts, childish minds and they had to go through the hell of bearing a child. And God only knows what happened to them afterwards. They should have been eligible for abortion.

I believe in euthanasia. Jack Kevorkian is my hero. He is still in jail but if I ever get a terminal illness like cancer, I will not have chemo or anything to prolong my life. I've saved up a lot of "death pills" and will terminate my life.

My mother got Alzheimer's. Eventually I put her in a very good board and care facility. She would have headaches and the caretakers would say they didn't want to give her Tylenol because she could become addicted to it. Imagine that mindset. She was 92 years old. Why couldn't she have Tylenol. Addition my ass. She would call me at 6 in the morning and tell me they put her in a dungeon and tortured her all night. She slid out of bed and broke her hip and was taken to Cedars Sinai. An orthopedist operated and put in a steel pin. Then the physical therapist came along and tried to get her to walk. She had f---ing Alzheimer's, she couldn't understand anything.

I demanded a code blue for her (do not resuscitate). The doctors had the nerve to argue with me saying that Alzheimer's was not necessarily terminal. What were they thinking? I got the code blue. She got pneumonia. I had them suction her, she was on IV for liquids. The doctor called me at work and said she was doing so well, that she could transition back to the board and care. I asked, "Are you talking about MY mother? Are you nuts?" Ten minutes later, he called me back and said she just died.

In summary, 11 year old girls should get abortions. Old ladies who have lost their mind should be euthanized rather than endure all the pain and suffering that will never bring them back to life.

And I hope to God that I will have the presence of mind to take myself out before my daughter throws me into an old age home.

I hope I have not offended anyone. This is my opinion only, for what it's worth.
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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2006, 04:13:39 AM »

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Louise,
I appreciate your statement and opinions.  There are horror stories that can be told on both sides of this issue.  Case in point the deaths related to the "morning after"pill wherein the parents were not even notified and did not know what to expect from their minor children having been given this pill.  I believe one of the deaths happened in your state so you must be aware of it.

I also believe there are two victims in abortion, the baby and the mother, and do not think that the solution to any problem is the deliberate killing of another human being using and violating the sacred trust of medicine.  

I do believe in the sanctity of human life and do not believe one person has the right to take that from another at will and this bill, while it certainly will not stop people from doing so, is merely stating that no such "right" exists.  It more or less puts the action where it belongs on each and every country and as a decision for each individual to make instead of declaring it to be a basic human right to do so.  I don't think any organization not even the U.N. would take it upon itself to take on the huge abortion industry globally.  That has gotten so huge that it likely cannot be stopped and certainly not by a single document.  But at least this recognized the right of those of us who do not support such actions to have them stated as a choice one makes and not a "right."

And as I said, there are horror stories on both sides, equally horrendous including the depression and mental illness so often associated with abortion.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion as am I.  Doing something to me is one thing but claiming it as a right is another.  And it goes against everything I believe in to state it as a basic human right to take the life of another merely by choice.  Perhaps you are reading more into this than is actually there as it does not prohibit the actions themselves, just is stating they are not basic human rights like the right to food and water for the disabled.  If a country affords the right to take the life of another, this is merely stating that it does so at it's on volition and not because it is a human "right" to do so.

I appreciate your opinion and hope that you will mine as well.
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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2006, 12:31:38 PM »

I want to add to this discussion by posting this article I just found perusing the papers.

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060903/NEWS07/609030499

I used to think that abortion was a choice, but I have changed my mind over the years.  At the age I am, I know several women that have had abortions, my generation was the first to see it legalized.  Down to the person, each woman is now traumatized that they ever had an abortion.  

I would never condemn a woman that had an abortion, as with these women I know, at the time, they thought it was for the best... but they could never get past it ....

Now LV, I do have compassion for the ones you mentioned... but my solution isn't to give them abortions, it is to protect our young girls better.  We have got to stop the culture of boys will be boys and letting our children perish... predator laws have to be strengthened and upheld... my hope is that eventually 11 year old girls won't be getting pregnant.
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Sam
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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2006, 12:59:22 PM »

Louise,
My heart goes out to you reading your story. I am so much older than most of you here and yes I do believe in abortion, the morning after pill and euthanasia.

I am from the generation where abortion was not legal. Did that stop girls from having them? NO! They did things to themselves to try to rid themselves of this untimely pregnancy. They went to back street abortionist. A lot of them died in the process or could no longer bear children as a result.
 
What a heartache for their families. Yet the stigma of having a child out of wedlock and keeping the child was more than these child Mothers could handle. Plus the children themselves suffered the stigma of being called Bastards. So unfair to everyone. I think it is better under those circumstances to give the children up for adoption. I also think it is a shame that so many of the young children today are raising there children.
Everyone loses. I think the child you gave up had a much better life than you could have given him at the time and I hope he appreciates that you were strong enough to do that for him.

Our son went to school with this lovely young girl who was one of the Thalidomide babies. She was born without arms or legs. She was very bright, and pretty. She had artificial limbs and was quite proficient with them. Everyone adored her. I am so greatful to God that I did not have to endure something like that. I would have been one of the ones going to Sweden( I think it was Sweden where abortion was legal) To have an abortion.

Do I think it was wrong for her parents to have allowed her to be born. NO! I do know it would have been more than I could handle. The guilt would have eaten me alive.

My family all know I do not want to be kept alive under artificial means. Does that mean to deprive me of food and water or even Oxygen. NO! Just no feeding tube ecetra if I am terminal or vegetavive. I so agree with your statement on being addicted to something when you are old or terminal. Who Cares!
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« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2006, 01:39:42 PM »

Dear LV and Sam.
I do agree with both of you about the terminal illness and Alziheimer's... who cares if they are addicted to Tylenol?  THe only issue I can see with Tylenol is when my grandmother had cancer, and took it a lot... it completely damaged her liver.
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« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2006, 03:14:18 PM »

I totally agree with Louise on this one.
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« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2006, 03:36:34 PM »

Ah, the man's supposed to be on top?
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« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2006, 04:45:03 PM »

Dear Anna,

I certainly do respect and appreciate your opinion, as always. Ah, I think I get it now what you meant about the bill. It does not include the RIGHT to abortion, euthanasia and homosexuality. These things can be done but no one can say "I have the legal right to abort, euthanize or be homosexual." In that case, I agree.

And, yes, I have heard about the morning after pill that led to deaths. Maybe those cases were aberrations. I'm sure many girls take that pill and don't die. I kind of recall hearing something like you have to be 18 to get the pill now. Do you know if that's true?
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« Reply #9 on: September 03, 2006, 05:22:39 PM »

Dear Mrs. Red,

Thank you for that article and for your comments. I would agree that since pregnancy screening methods have evolved, most likely a Downs Syndrome fetus can be discovered in utero. And most women tend to terminate the pregnancy.

My daughter had her first child at 35 and her SO was 60 so she had all the prenatal testing and screening. I asked her what if they found Down Syndrome, what would you do? She said she didn't know. But the baby was normal.

About women who've had abortions and been traumatized later in life, I am so glad I didn't have an abortion. I know at this age I would be feeling horrible regarding what that baby could have been. And in light of my daughter's estrangement, I'd prolly be thinking that was my punishment from God for having an abortion.

The 11 year old girls I spoke of got pregnant in 1961. Abortion was illegal. And "child predators" were unheard of. In a lot of cultures, children were regularly sexually abused when they were too young to get pregnant. These 11 year old girls had not even begun having periods.

I agree the current movement to expose and have a database of child abusers is going a long way to cut down on childhood pregnancies.
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« Reply #10 on: September 03, 2006, 05:36:03 PM »

Dear Sam,

Thanks for your post.

I do remember hearing how woman got back street abortions and died, as well as trying to abort themselves with hangers and other objects.

It was a terrible stigma to be pregnant and unwed. And the kids were called bastards. Horrible.

Yes, my mother made me give up the baby for adoption. She said you are still in high school, do you expect me to take care of the baby, and do you think any man will marry you with a bastard child. I had no choice but I'm glad she knew the best thing to do. And my son had a wonderful life which I could never have provided for him.

I haven't thought about Thalidomide babies in quite a while. That was awful. I still some adults around here from time to time, easily recognizable with a hand coming out of the shoulder.

Be very careful with your living will to specifically list what you mean by "terminal" conditions. My mother had a living will but the doctors argued with me about Alzheimer's being terminal. I'm gonna have a long list.

xoxoxox
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2006, 05:38:40 PM »

Hi Carnut,

You always make me smile. Yep, we do not need bedroom police!
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« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2006, 05:44:02 PM »

Quote from: "LouiseVargas"
Hi Carnut,

You always make me smile. Yep, we do not need bedroom police!

that's one I think we all agree on!! Laughing
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Sam
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« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2006, 06:43:58 PM »

I want to make a few more comments in this thread. I said I would not have been able to bear the guilt of a thalidomide baby. That is just me. That does not mean that those who were able to handle that should not have allowed those children to be born.

The other thing is, if one of my children had lost limbs in an accident I certainly would have fought to keep them alive and using artificial limbs.

One other thing I also believe in stem cell research. Some of the things about modern medicine have been wonderful. Quite a few of our Monkeys have benefitted greatly from it. Myself included, as a recent survivor of anal cancer. But we still have miles to go. JMHO
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« Reply #14 on: September 03, 2006, 07:30:55 PM »

My best friend has a Downs daughter, never asked him what he would have done if they had had a choice. Not sure what he would have done.

Kimmy is about 20 now.
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« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2006, 10:45:10 PM »

Quote from: "Carnut"
My best friend has a Downs daughter, never asked him what he would have done if they had had a choice. Not sure what he would have done.

Kimmy is about 20 now.


Now that she has been a part of his life for 20 years... doesn't he absoulutely treasure her?  
I have known several people that were Downs ... they have held mail room type jobs in a few offices I worked in... they were always such wonderful people... I mean I am sure it's hard on the family at first, but usually downs people are so loving and have such a sweet innocence about them.... but my experience is, granted limited.
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« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2006, 10:54:50 PM »

Well, Kimmy is loved I'm sure, but she is a concern of the family.

The family is big into the local ARC because of Kimmy and I help out a local car show that her father started for fund raising.

July 4th for the ARC

Here's Kimmy and Miss Kansas 2006:

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« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2006, 11:04:31 PM »

Quote from: "Carnut"
My best friend has a Downs daughter, never asked him what he would have done if they had had a choice. Not sure what he would have done.

Kimmy is about 20 now.


I doubt if they would trade her for anything. The gal my son went to school with (Thalidomide) I know her parents would not have traded her.They brought her up to be a real go getter. I was just saying I would have not been the parent she deserved.

I also have known many Downs children. They are usually complete sweethearts. Very loving, caring people. It usually has no bearing on something the parents did or did not do. Not like the Thalidomide children.
Of course when we first heard about thalidomide it was not known it was going to cause these problems. Now I am reading they are finding new uses for this drug in other countries. Good things.
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« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2006, 11:12:07 PM »

Carnut  - that is awesome of you to volunteer your time...

I just over time have felt my personal opinions change over time...

as for assisted suicide, I don't think I believe in it...

however, I don't think that a DNR should be gone against... I mean I would not want to be kept alive via artifical means but I don't want to be starved to death like Terri Shivo was either...
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« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2006, 11:15:25 PM »

Everybody talking about all of this.... it is a very enlightening and personal subject.. and I thank all of you for sharing your thoughts.

I also thank each of you for being able to express all of this whether we agree 100% or not without any rancor.
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