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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #765 7/15 - 7/22  (Read 276949 times)
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always 1
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« Reply #440 on: July 20, 2008, 04:54:37 AM »

I cant sleep either.  So what is she cooking? 
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« Reply #441 on: July 20, 2008, 04:56:47 AM »

too tired to make sense of this one!! lol
So thought I'd bring it over from RU for us to discuss tomorrow.
Hey!! said I couldn't sleep...didn't say I wasn't tired!! lol

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Quote
ragonfly Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:01 am   

AC wrote:


Something occured to me this morning when I was sitting outside drinking coffee. In February when Joran and Vander Eems's tape surfaced, Joran spoke of the "shaking" that happened with Natalee. I remember being on another site at the time and it was brought out that the ALE asked the family if Natalee had ever had shaking episodes in the past. This, evidentally, happened in the first days of the case. So, if this is all true, it seems the ALE did have information early on....because I do not remember the "shaking" statement being brought out until Joran's conversation with Vander Eem in February. If this is the case and the ALE asked Natalee's family about this.....and then almost three years later, the same comes out of Joran's mouth.....it makes one think that the ALE MIGHT be covering for someone. I mean, as stated earlier.....the comment that 80% of this case was confirmed by Joran's statements to Vander Eem....it does seem that this amount of evidence would be enough to take this to court. Why would the ALE have asked the family this? They must have known something regarding the shaking.....


AC, also interesting to me when this came up and I started reading statements again, is the fact that ALE asked Deepak and Satish on 5/31/05 whether Joran and Natalee had got out at the Fisherman Huts and walked by the sea. Both answered no. This was when the HI lie was still very much the story being told. No one had heard the "dropped at the beach" story, except ALE it seems. But the HI story went on for days after that and the security guards still arrested. I'm not into huge conspiracy theories, but odd that both Deepak and Satish were asked about that, but Joran wasn't. ALE had already heard the beach story from someone, but it is not referenced in Joran's statement at all, just asked and answered in Deepak and Satish's statements and that story wouldn't officially change for days to come. Odd.

Oops ETA: This was before, I believe, any friends of VDS or K2 were questioned and later ALE (Kelly) added a statement of his own that Joran mentioned this on 5/31 but he forgot to put it in Joran's statement, that he and Natalee got out at FH and walked by the sea. I just think that's all very odd.

Last edited by dragonfly on Sat Jul 19, 2008 7:07 am; edited 1 time in total 


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ldstlou
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« Reply #442 on: July 20, 2008, 04:58:52 AM »

I cant sleep either.  So what is she cooking? 

turns out cheese and ham sandwiches...very good!!
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« Reply #443 on: July 20, 2008, 05:00:24 AM »

Craving some gingerbread and whip cream, is thats what shes cooking?
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« Reply #444 on: July 20, 2008, 05:01:35 AM »

Ok, Ill have a sandwich and some gingerbread...
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« Reply #445 on: July 20, 2008, 05:01:50 AM »

I cant sleep either.  So what is she cooking? 

turns out cheese and ham sandwiches...very good!!

On wheat bread...bit more healthier than you would think!!lol
I have GOT to get my fanny to bed!!! Have to tell the little Monkey the sleep over is OVER!!! lol
HATE having to be the nerdy Mom....but this Mom has got to get her beauty sleep!!
Night sweet Monkeys!!!
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« Reply #446 on: July 20, 2008, 05:03:54 AM »

Craving some gingerbread and whip cream, is thats what shes cooking?

hmmmm have whipped cream..but no gingerbraed. So sorry!!!
Putting the little Monkey and the step Monkey to bed and heading to the Monkey Bunkey myself.
Night Babe!!!
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« Reply #447 on: July 20, 2008, 05:04:55 AM »

Night.And know how blessed you are to have little ones in the house!!!
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« Reply #448 on: July 20, 2008, 07:11:28 AM »

BUMP.

I'm bringing this forward, hoping it will prompt some discussion. Maybe we can figure out a way to chastise Aruba about this. Or publicize it.

We've known that the "stats" are off, at least the public ones. Read the first few pages of the M&C thread.

But beyond that - this is not exactly a "new" phenomonom - I noticed over a year ago that the online sources had dried up on this kind of reporting. (Like Destiny, Diario online is my primary source - but I check others as well.)

The bold face in Destiny's post was added by me.

MsMARPLE...

Re: your email last week...have made a lot of phone calls to ALE and other Depts...RE: reporting of crimes on Aruba....MsMarple...You are 100% CORRECT!!!

The stats a *wayyyyyyy* off...and the Dept's and agencies I called are now saying..."they do not have the authority to give that info out...or..they just plain say they don't know...but...the people I call...spend a boat load of my time trying to find out who told me to call them...

ALSO...if you check back on *online* newspaper stats...Diario is the one I track the most...the *Police Reports* sections are getting sometimes days behind and mostly only a very few reports released to the print media by the ALE DEPTS...Yep You are Right On...I'll give you a few phone numbers if you want to call them re: this new phenomenon

I call it...the reigning political party has now, in some way established *semi* control of the press....

Destiny...signing back off.....

Destiny - Thanks for your inquiries; I appreciate your efforts. I'm not surprised by your result.

One thing you say is interesting, though. The "suppression" might be coming from ALE, not the press. (I thought that the powers-that-be had probably told the media not to include certain types of stories - which might be in the local print editions - in the online editions.)

It is true that 24ora and awe24 online have many police incidents. But they don't involve tourists (except maybe an accident or incident - with a tourist driving or otherwise at fault).

Monkeys - I know y'all probably think I'm obsessive about the Murder & Crime thread. But I challenge you to READ the Summary through December, 2006 (Page 16; see my sig) - and then at least skim the subsequent pages.

Notice a difference? How many murders in 2007, and 2008 so far? How many violent crimes involving tourists? How many in the areas frequented by tourists? These incidents are not showing up in the online versions - and I don't think it's due to a LACK of such incidents.

I think Aruba would be shouting it from the rooftops if a dramatic decrease in these types of crimes had occurred.

This is why I did not extend the Summary through 2007. We haven't had a resource since early 2007.

Destiny - Need to talk to you about the OTHER matter (personal) that I emailed you.

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Murder & Crime on  Aruba Summary - http://tinyurl.com/2lhukn

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« Reply #449 on: July 20, 2008, 07:15:00 AM »

For the record - Murder & Crime thread views currently 74,358 - and counting ...
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Murder & Crime on  Aruba Summary - http://tinyurl.com/2lhukn

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« Reply #450 on: July 20, 2008, 07:58:16 AM »

I am sure that the online sources have dried up due to diligence from the tourism authorities.

As for "real" crime numbers, I have always felt there was a huge issue.

Nothing happened if a "police report" has not been filed.  The beach patrol, with shirts and vehicles labeled Polis, are not police.  They can decide what they file or do.  Their job is to  cover the tourist sector and they are paid by the merchants.

Not only must there be an official police report, the prosecutor must decide to take the case.  The stats, they release, are the percent of cases successfully prosecuted.  That leaves a whole lot of reported crimes, unreported.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #451 on: July 20, 2008, 08:08:53 AM »

The Haunting Evidence sketch reminds me of Jaime C or Guido.  To be honest, I don't put much stock in the sketch, I think it was more for show than anything.

I don't put much stock in the sketch, either; however, it also looks a little like Freddy to me.



Hi Puzzler, I think it looks like Freddy as well. Also came up with a likeness to Arthur Santos and Max Arends. It was Max who coincidently was confused with Freddy back in August 2005 as Joran’s sleepover buddy and alibi. Another coincidence…Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis aka Arends.
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« Reply #452 on: July 20, 2008, 08:28:38 AM »

msmarples

Do you have this from 5/23/2008:

Aruba does have problems. We have been going there for 27 years, purchased a house 4 years ago at Tierra del sol. We spend holidays there every year. We had a home invasion this year, and we are in a "gated" community. It took the police 8 days to respond, but I believe they were honest when they told us, home invasions are not unusual in that area. The insurance adjuster told the same story. So if you buy a house in Aruba and only live it in part of the time, do not leave anything of value, such a power tools, camera, computers etc. It may be one "happy island" but it is not one "safe" island.

http://www.aruba.com/forum/f34/aruba-has-problems-30696/index5.html

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« Reply #453 on: July 20, 2008, 08:41:22 AM »

msmarple

Not a crime, but scarey:

5/2008 from Med School student:

IMG, you are not adequately fearful. Before you arrived, there were regular maulings of Aruban citizens by unleashed dogs. The stories always got into the main papers, but we never read about it because the main papers are in Papiamento. We found out only through students who are locals.

Where I live, in Punto in Tanki Leendert, a pack of six dogs, all belonging to owners along one street, will not allow anyone to pass at night, and will occasionally challenge people during the day. I cannot even get to that street because the dogs on my block will not let me by. I once saw the pack take a man off his bicycle and maul him until the owners came out and called them off.

Ask the night security guard how he was attacked by a pack of dogs while on his motorbike on his way to school.

I inquired of the locals about this problem. There is a leash law, but it is not enforced because the Keystone Cops who run this place don't want to alienate the voters, most of whom use unleased dogs as burglar alarms which bark all night whenever a grasshopper passes by. The gendarmes prefer to spend their time doing roadside traffic checks, where they don't have to move much and can make students late for class.


http://www.valuemd.com/xavier-university-school-medicine-aruba/156301-dogs-aruba.html
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« Reply #454 on: July 20, 2008, 08:42:32 AM »

i want to talk about what Blonde said last.  She said she dreamed Natalee told her to look for her blue bracelet in the see through bag.  Karen the Psychic in Diaro mentioned a silver colored bracelet with a heart.  Blonde, come back, lets talk about this.

I bought 8 books on dreams I have always been intersted in this.
When I found what I believe to be Natalee.

I needed more and I prayed for a sign at first I know this sounds strange but butterfly kept landing on me or around me. I thought maybe it was a sent I had on.
 BNH I hope you getting a good laugh at this but I least I'm doing something
So before I went to bed at night I asked can you help me here girl I am doing everything I can to find you give a brake will you.

Some time that week I had a dream of Natalee she said look for my blue bracelet in the bag.



Thoughts please
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« Reply #455 on: July 20, 2008, 08:50:35 AM »

i want to talk about what Blonde said last.  She said she dreamed Natalee told her to look for her blue bracelet in the see through bag.  Karen the Psychic in Diaro mentioned a silver colored bracelet with a heart.  Blonde, come back, lets talk about this.

I bought 8 books on dreams I have always been intersted in this.
When I found what I believe to be Natalee.

I needed more and I prayed for a sign at first I know this sounds strange but butterfly kept landing on me or around me. I thought maybe it was a sent I had on.
 BNH I hope you getting a good laugh at this but I least I'm doing something
So before I went to bed at night I asked can you help me here girl I am doing everything I can to find you give a brake will you.

Some time that week I had a dream of Natalee she said look for my blue bracelet in the bag.



Thoughts please

I can't see the picture.  My resolution must be off.  I can't see carpe's pics either.  I did see "The Madonna" type silhouette, in the bag but can't see a focused pic, at the high resolution.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #456 on: July 20, 2008, 08:54:50 AM »

Mrskub and Sandy…Thanks for checking into the compulsory Marine service. I came up empty as well.

Hopefully caesu or Johan can find something for us. Or maybe, if there is any such thing in the Netherlands…

Caesu…Anything official on Carlos Severino Tromp?…Thanks…
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« Reply #457 on: July 20, 2008, 09:02:00 AM »

More Croes confusion…Rudy being called Edward around June 11th. 2005, Caps posting that Hendrick and Rudy are not brothers. That Steve has a brother Edward and Steve is the son of Mitchi, who is some-how tied to Henrick, I think…

The first link below has Rudy and Edward cousins…which I think would make Steve and Rudy cousins...

The confusion continues…


Link to Caps’ post re Steve, Edward, and Hendrick


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.1480


Furthermore a businessman stated last week in a radio-broadcast that during a personal conversation with Rudy Croes concerning a work and stay-permit for personnel in his company, he was referred to Croes’ cousin Edward Croes. In a conversation with this Edward Croes the businessman was informed that he would have to contribute to the minister’s campaign in order to obtain the permits he had requested.

http://journals.aol.com/usmcgunny68/TheListOfSicilianMessenger/entries/2005/06/11/aruba-murder-update/2993



Saturday, June 11, 2005
Aruba Murder Update:

FOXNews.com - U.S. & World - Reports Conflict in Case of Missing Ala. Teen
Aruban Minister of Justice Edward Croes (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway, who was on vacation with friends as a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities know

Confusion Reigns in Natalee Holloway Case
Jun 10, 2005 ... Saturday afternoon Fox News quoted Aruban Minister of Justice Edward Croes confirming Holloway's death and saying authorities know the ...crime.about.com/b/2005/06/10/confusion-reigns-in-natalee-holloway-case.htm - 24k -

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« Reply #458 on: July 20, 2008, 09:25:53 AM »

Mrskub and Sandy…Thanks for checking into the compulsory Marine service. I came up empty as well.

Hopefully caesu or Johan can find something for us. Or maybe, if there is any such thing in the Netherlands…

Caesu…Anything official on Carlos Severino Tromp?…Thanks…


Mum, I just found this site this morning.


ARUBA
Military branches:   no regular indigenous military forces; the Netherlands maintains a detachment of marines, a frigate, and an amphibious combat detachment in the neighboring Netherlands Antilles (2008)

Military service age and obligation:
void

http://www.exxun.com/Aruba/h_ml.html
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« Reply #459 on: July 20, 2008, 09:26:49 AM »

i want to talk about what Blonde said last.  She said she dreamed Natalee told her to look for her blue bracelet in the see through bag.  Karen the Psychic in Diaro mentioned a silver colored bracelet with a heart.  Blonde, come back, lets talk about this.

I bought 8 books on dreams I have always been intersted in this.
When I found what I believe to be Natalee.

I needed more and I prayed for a sign at first I know this sounds strange but butterfly kept landing on me or around me. I thought maybe it was a sent I had on.
 BNH I hope you getting a good laugh at this but I least I'm doing something
So before I went to bed at night I asked can you help me here girl I am doing everything I can to find you give a brake will you.

Some time that week I had a dream of Natalee she said look for my blue bracelet in the bag.



Thoughts please
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