Natalee Case Discussion #765 7/15 - 7/22

[MumInOhio]

Mrskub and Sandy…Thanks for checking into the compulsory Marine service. I came up empty as well.

Hopefully caesu or Johan can find something for us. Or maybe, if there is any such thing in the Netherlands…

Caesu…Anything official on Carlos Severino Tromp?…Thanks…

Mum, I just found this site this morning.


ARUBA
Military branches:   no regular indigenous military forces; the Netherlands maintains a detachment of marines, a frigate, and an amphibious combat detachment in the neighboring Netherlands Antilles (2008)

Military service age and obligation:
void

http://www.exxun.com/Aruba/h_ml.html

Thanks...Mrskub...only thing I can think of would be some sort of registration at a certain age, as is required for males here when they turn 18.

[MumInOhio]

Mrskub and Sandy…Thanks for checking into the compulsory Marine service. I came up empty as well.

Hopefully caesu or Johan can find something for us. Or maybe, if there is any such thing in the Netherlands…

Caesu…Anything official on Carlos Severino Tromp?…Thanks…

Mum, I just found this site this morning.


ARUBA
Military branches:   no regular indigenous military forces; the Netherlands maintains a detachment of marines, a frigate, and an amphibious combat detachment in the neighboring Netherlands Antilles (2008)

Military service age and obligation:
void

http://www.exxun.com/Aruba/h_ml.html

Thanks...Mrskub...only thing I can think of would be some sort of registration at a certain age, as is required for males here when they turn 18.

Mrskub…found this…

http://www.nationmaster.com/country/nl-netherlands/mil-military


Conscription
No conscription (FWCC).


Service age and obligation
20 years of age for an all-volunteer force (2004)

[msmarple]

Buckeye - I didn't have either of the incidents you posted; I copied both to the M&C thread. THANK YOU!

Always glad to see posts from the Aruba Bulletin Boards etc. I don't go there myself. But I hope those who do will be sure to report back to SM.

By the way - ALL of YOU can post in the M&C thread, you know ... don't have to wait for me to read/copy. 

[mrskub]

Thanks Mum.

Now, could you please do me a favor and remind me why we were looking for this? LOL! I swear, these gray hairs deplete brain cells.

[msmarple]

msmarple

Not a crime, but scarey:

5/2008 from Med School student:

IMG, you are not adequately fearful. Before you arrived, there were regular maulings of Aruban citizens by unleashed dogs. The stories always got into the main papers, but we never read about it because the main papers are in Papiamento. We found out only through students who are locals.

Where I live, in Punto in Tanki Leendert, a pack of six dogs, all belonging to owners along one street, will not allow anyone to pass at night, and will occasionally challenge people during the day. I cannot even get to that street because the dogs on my block will not let me by. I once saw the pack take a man off his bicycle and maul him until the owners came out and called them off.

Ask the night security guard how he was attacked by a pack of dogs while on his motorbike on his way to school.

I inquired of the locals about this problem. There is a leash law, but it is not enforced because the Keystone Cops who run this place don't want to alienate the voters, most of whom use unleased dogs as burglar alarms which bark all night whenever a grasshopper passes by. The gendarmes prefer to spend their time doing roadside traffic checks, where they don't have to move much and can make students late for class.

http://www.valuemd.com/xavier-university-school-medicine-aruba/156301-dogs-aruba.html

Unleashed dogs are a crime of some sort in many places.

And not to pick on a particular breed, but I see many stories about pit bulls on Aruba.

[SS]

Since we have been discussing Natalee in the plastic bag, I thought that this article from Aruba Dirty Police would be helpful as a reminder.  There's even a quote from Janet in it.



Monday, April 10, 2006
Aruba: Answer the Question: How Do You Know Natalee is Dead?
 

On June 13 2005 a girl named Jacy from Holland sent a video of the dunes (Rock) area of what appeared to be a polis recovery of a body filmed on 6-10-2005

There were many polis and what appeared to be a coroners van off to the left on the video. Also in the video there was a man with two dogs that she said was a man famous in Holland called Harry "the nose" Jongen. He was called the nose because he used a long stick with a hole drilled through the entire length to poke down into the ground and find bodies of victims by smell, and had success in Bosnia during the Balkan war, he discovered many victims and some mass graves. There was skepticism of everything I was seeing and had never heard of the man called Harry the nose before and Jacy thought everyone knew about him and his track record.


On 6-10-2005 Beth learned that Natalee was dead, she was told before an interview with 20/20 and was heard crying behind a closed door by the Mainstream Media.


On the day of 6-10-2005 the family received a call from the FBI on Aruba, and told to go to Beth's mother's house and to notify her.The FBI wanted to have the mother tell Beth.


After watching the video several times, I noticed that a body was not actually able to be seen but, there was enough to lead you to conclude that this was a crime scene of some sort. There were polis and other officials and there were men in bio suits (not hazmat suits) covering something with a tarp and sheets in the rock area. Again this video was shot on 6-10-2005 by a man named Ed Smith, from the aru-bay video site although we cannot confirm his name is for a fact Ed Smith. He is also know to post under a name Tony Smith.


Ed Smith filmed the video of what appeared to be a recovery and then on 6-11-2005 he returned to the same location and filmed the painting crew painting over the rocks in the video from the day before. Those videos have become known as the Chicago videos, (http://www.arubassilence.com/chicago.htm) named by the poster who discovered them on the site back in the late summer or fall of 2005.

Or: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4839427379604364764&q=Chicago_510_24


The video filmed on 6-10-2005 was a part of that collection, however at the time I didn't realize there were more videos, just the one that appeared to be a recovery scene, and is now missing from the web server and backend parent list. It was removed for a reason Ed will not share with me even though we have had many email conversations. He filmed the video and went to CNN and wanted to sell the video to them, but was offered only $100.00 so he said no way and put the video on his server.


At that point Jacy found the video and forwarded it . At the time, we thought maybe it was a sea creature that washed up and they were recovering that animal. It wasn't until the fall that I realized there was more to the recovery video, because of the painting done to the rocks in the video filmed the following day. Because why would anyone send a painting crew out to the middle of nowhere and paint over specific rocks? That makes absolutely no sense unless there were painting over the crime scene of Natalee Holloway. To this day there has been no explanation from the ALE or Aruba \ Dutch Authorities as to what actually took place there and why men were painting over these specific rocks.


Harry Jongen, a very well known dutch citizen, he must have found something.

Speculation is that Dompig was delaying to distract, and move Natalee again, off the island and create a runaway story and then follow it up with finding Natalee somewhere other than Aruba.

Imagine Aruba trying to say she ran away? That would be good in one sense, but how to explain Van der straaten's comments when the guards were arrested (murder) or Dompig's (overdose) either way it is all falling apart for Aruba.

They just can't help themselves and it reeks of desperation.

If this person has or will come forward with the complete videos, they could collect one million dollars. The question is, have they already?

Is THE Aruba Dirty Policeman going down? This from Tamikosmom:

DENNIS JACOBS

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:adDo4GRWo_AJ:www.vanityfair.com/commentary/content/printables/060102roco01%3Fprint%3Dtrue+neighbor+witness+Deepak+Kalpoe+cleaning&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=3

By now it was almost five o'clock in the morning. The policemen told Beth to wait at her hotel. A detective would come by and see her at eight. Detective Dennis Jacobs arrived at 8:15, took down Natalee's description, and led Beth to the police station. Beth sat in the lobby for three hours until Jacobs spoke to her again. She rose, eager to pour out everything she had learned. Suddenly, Jacobs said, "We won't be needing you." Beth stood there, stunned, uncertain what to do. After a moment she walked outside, where she ran into the first of the hundreds of television crews she would soon encounter. "That was the moment," she says today, "that I realized we were in serious trouble."


http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/12/03/natalee-holloway-stop-spinning-the-real-reasons-why-there-is-a-boycott-in-of-aruba/

Dave: When I arrived at that police station, the detective knew I was coming and I was frantic as you can imagine a parent being who has their daughter missing. I walked up to the front desk accompanied by my brother and brother in law. I identified myself as the father of Natalee Holloway and Jacobs got up from his chair and grumbled “Well, how much money you got? ..... ”


ONLY TEAM PLAYERS WELCOME

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2005/11/14/dave-holloway-responds-to-the-boycott-of-aruba-in-the-natalee-holloway-disappearance/

Dave: Well, yes. I have spoken with one of the assistant prosecutors and that’s one of the reasons she resigned. It was because the police would not follow-up on her suggestions as well. She became so frustrated that she had to call it quits. You have dissensions within the prosecutor’s office. You have police officers who for some reason or other don’t trust each other. You know, we came up with the bones. When I was on the island, I was questioned about what did we do with the evidence and I didn’t know…what did you do with the evidence? We found out a tourist had found a bone and gave it to the beach police.

The beach police, rather than giving it to the detective team gave it to some police commissioner. The rumor was they did not trust the detective team. We’ve heard that over and over and over again from various different sources. You have to wonder, who can you trust?


posted by Deetch at 7:23 AM 

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_archive.html

[SS]

Painting the rocks

http://arubadirtypolice.blogspot.com/2006_04_01_archive.html

[MumInOhio]

Thanks Mum.

Now, could you please do me a favor and remind me why we were looking for this? LOL! I swear, these gray hairs deplete brain cells.

Funny Mrskub…I was expecting you to ask that…

Misinformation from our friend Simian/Merian/Armin, who spent a lot of his workday posting on the Front Page of SM…I checked his Simian posts…LOL

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: Our problem is with the networks...

They accuse us of allowing underage drinking. We do not allow underage drinking. Our laws
are different, because we have a different society. If you are 18 in Aruba you are of age
and responsible for your own acts. You are allowed to vote and are obligated to join the
Dutch Marines. So our lawmakers feel that if you are allowed to decide you country's fate
and are asked to die for it, you should be able to order a beer and smoke a cigarette. To
put things in perspective. In the US you are allowed to drive at 16. In Aruba you have to
wait until you are 18. Nobody claims you are allowing underage driving.

[mrskub]

Thanks Mum. 

[ldstlou]

msmarple

Not a crime, but scarey:

5/2008 from Med School student:

IMG, you are not adequately fearful. Before you arrived, there were regular maulings of Aruban citizens by unleashed dogs. The stories always got into the main papers, but we never read about it because the main papers are in Papiamento. We found out only through students who are locals.

Where I live, in Punto in Tanki Leendert, a pack of six dogs, all belonging to owners along one street, will not allow anyone to pass at night, and will occasionally challenge people during the day. I cannot even get to that street because the dogs on my block will not let me by. I once saw the pack take a man off his bicycle and maul him until the owners came out and called them off.

Ask the night security guard how he was attacked by a pack of dogs while on his motorbike on his way to school.

I inquired of the locals about this problem. There is a leash law, but it is not enforced because the Keystone Cops who run this place don't want to alienate the voters, most of whom use unleased dogs as burglar alarms which bark all night whenever a grasshopper passes by. The gendarmes prefer to spend their time doing roadside traffic checks, where they don't have to move much and can make students late for class.

http://www.valuemd.com/xavier-university-school-medicine-aruba/156301-dogs-aruba.html

Unleashed dogs are a crime of some sort in many places.

And not to pick on a particular breed, but I see many stories about pit bulls on Aruba.

Love it...calls the ALE the "Keystone cops"
So we aren't the only ones are we? lol

This is serious stuff!! pack of wild dogs and no one does anything? You know who is going to get hurt? children!!!

[ldstlou]

i want to talk about what Blonde said last.  She said she dreamed Natalee told her to look for her blue bracelet in the see through bag.  Karen the Psychic in Diaro mentioned a silver colored bracelet with a heart.  Blonde, come back, lets talk about this.

I bought 8 books on dreams I have always been intersted in this.
When I found what I believe to be Natalee.

I needed more and I prayed for a sign at first I know this sounds strange but butterfly kept landing on me or around me. I thought maybe it was a sent I had on.
 BNH I hope you getting a good laugh at this but I least I'm doing something
So before I went to bed at night I asked can you help me here girl I am doing everything I can to find you give a brake will you.

Some time that week I had a dream of Natalee she said look for my blue bracelet in the bag.


Thoughts please

From my favorite dreams website:

Bracelet

To see or wear a bracelet in your dream, refers to an expression of deep passion and fire. The dream also highlights your need to reach out to others. It is a sign that you need to rekindle old friendships and to call up an old friend that you haven't heard from in awhile.

To see a broken bracelet in your dream, suggests that you tend to sacrifice your own comfort and happiness for others.

Blue

Blue represents truth, wisdom, heaven, eternity, devotion, tranquility, loyalty and openness. The presence of this color in your dream, may symbolize your spiritual guide and your optimism of the future. You have clarity of mind.

Depending on the context of your dream, the color blue may also be a  metaphor of "being blue" and feeling sad.

Bag

To see a bag in your dream, represents the responsibilities that you carry. If the bag is ripped or torn, then it indicates that you are carrying a lot of burden.

To dream of a bag full of junk, symbolizes that you are burdened with worries and problems; you have to find a way on unloading some of this load.

[mrskub]

I just went to check http://www.awe24.com/ and got sick. I have never seen so many accidents in such a small area, Seriously!! Today, they have a picture posted of a dead man in the front seat of his car after an accident. I can't believe they post such stuff for everyone to see. It must be torture for the families.

[klaasend]

I just went to check http://www.awe24.com/ and got sick. I have never seen so many accidents in such a small area, Seriously!! Today, they have a picture posted of a dead man in the front seat of his car after an accident. I can't believe they post such stuff for everyone to see. It must be torture for the families.

I was just about to post there was ANOTHER auto fatality in Aruba.  I couldn't believe the photo they allowed.  Small island for so many accidents and fatalities IMO.

[bleachedblack]

The Haunting Evidence sketch reminds me of Jaime C or Guido.  To be honest, I don't put much stock in the sketch, I think it was more for show than anything.I might add this is what I have found also...ask the guy who drives the jeep for DePalm Tours or the the guy who works in the car rental and they in all likleyhood will recite back some equally incorrect information about the case to fit what they wish were the truth or what they have been fed to be truth.

I don't put much stock in the sketch, either; however, it also looks a little like Freddy to me.

Hi Puzzler, I think it looks like Freddy as well. Also came up with a likeness to Arthur Santos and Max Arends. It was Max who coincidently was confused with Freddy back in August 2005 as Joran’s sleepover buddy and alibi. Another coincidence…Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis aka Arends.

Just seeing his name again reminds me of a comment I saw posted on youtube....for some reason my computer is blocking my viewing the video this time but I have seen it before...the comment is relatively new though. I find it interesting if the poster is truely maxarends that he is still posting(with some vengeance) about Natalee 3 years later. I just goes to show that resentment runs deep.

This ain't Aruba, bitch.(name of video on youtube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRgh82-c2LI


maxarends (1 month ago)

well well well, another lie told about aruba. The lady didn't got carjacker robber nor was her bank account stolen. You filthy rich americans try to blame every one else instead of yourself. Nathalee H. was found missing before everyone boarded the airplane.. imagine that before everyone boarded the plane after every single classmate packed, ate breakfast and left for the plane. A hundred and some students with only one person to watch them??? well thats a shame. Blame everyone else, but not U


lucynthesky0000 (3 weeks ago)

you miss the point maxarends, that happened to my son in atlanta not aruba, my point is it doesnt matter what your skin color is or if u r rich, poor whatever...it is what is in your heart, so simple really, u sound like your heart needs some repair!

[bleachedblack]

I just went to check http://www.awe24.com/ and got sick. I have never seen so many accidents in such a small area, Seriously!! Today, they have a picture posted of a dead man in the front seat of his car after an accident. I can't believe they post such stuff for everyone to see. It must be torture for the families.

I was just about to post there was ANOTHER auto fatality in Aruba.  I couldn't believe the photo they allowed.  Small island for so many accidents and fatalities IMO.

Looks like a shooting also though not a serious injury.

[Nut44x4]

I just went to check http://www.awe24.com/ and got sick. I have never seen so many accidents in such a small area, Seriously!! Today, they have a picture posted of a dead man in the front seat of his car after an accident. I can't believe they post such stuff for everyone to see. It must be torture for the families.

Ummmmmm.......is that a photo on there of someone's BUTT w/ a gunshot wound?? Looks like a Butt...you can see the crack. 
Yes, they are crude, rude and socially unacceptable subhuman beings. No respect....none.

[Blonde]

ldstlou
I did not see any of these things in a dream.
I just heard a sweet voice say look for my blue bracelet it's in there.

[MumInOhio]

The Haunting Evidence sketch reminds me of Jaime C or Guido.  To be honest, I don't put much stock in the sketch, I think it was more for show than anything.I might add this is what I have found also...ask the guy who drives the jeep for DePalm Tours or the the guy who works in the car rental and they in all likleyhood will recite back some equally incorrect information about the case to fit what they wish were the truth or what they have been fed to be truth.

I don't put much stock in the sketch, either; however, it also looks a little like Freddy to me.

Hi Puzzler, I think it looks like Freddy as well. Also came up with a likeness to Arthur Santos and Max Arends. It was Max who coincidently was confused with Freddy back in August 2005 as Joran’s sleepover buddy and alibi. Another coincidence…Freddy Alexander Zedan Arambatzis aka Arends.

Just seeing his name again reminds me of a comment I saw posted on youtube....for some reason my computer is blocking my viewing the video this time but I have seen it before...the comment is relatively new though. I find it interesting if the poster is truely maxarends that he is still posting(with some vengeance) about Natalee 3 years later. I just goes to show that resentment runs deep.

This ain't Aruba, bitch.(name of video on youtube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRgh82-c2LI


maxarends (1 month ago)

well well well, another lie told about aruba. The lady didn't got carjacker robber nor was her bank account stolen. You filthy rich americans try to blame every one else instead of yourself. Nathalee H. was found missing before everyone boarded the airplane.. imagine that before everyone boarded the plane after every single classmate packed, ate breakfast and left for the plane. A hundred and some students with only one person to watch them??? well thats a shame. Blame everyone else, but not U


lucynthesky0000 (3 weeks ago)

you miss the point maxarends, that happened to my son in atlanta not aruba, my point is it doesnt matter what your skin color is or if u r rich, poor whatever...it is what is in your heart, so simple really, u sound like your heart needs some repair!

Thanks bb...Yes it does...and they still haven't figured out how to spell Natalee's name correctly...quite a few Arubans stick an "h" in her name it seems...

[bleachedblack]

I just went to check http://www.awe24.com/ and got sick. I have never seen so many accidents in such a small area, Seriously!! Today, they have a picture posted of a dead man in the front seat of his car after an accident. I can't believe they post such stuff for everyone to see. It must be torture for the families.

Ummmmmm.......is that a photo on there of someone's BUTT w/ a gunshot wound?? Looks like a Butt...you can see the crack. 
Yes, they are crude, rude and socially unacceptable subhuman beings. No respect....none.

Looks like an abdomen( you made me post this LOL)

[dennisintn]

Thanks Mum.

Now, could you please do me a favor and remind me why we were looking for this? LOL! I swear, these gray hairs deplete brain cells.

Funny Mrskub…I was expecting you to ask that…

Misinformation from our friend Simian/Merian/Armin, who spent a lot of his workday posting on the Front Page of SM…I checked his Simian posts…LOL

Merian Ernest Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2005 4:53 pm Post subject: Our problem is with the networks...

They accuse us of allowing underage drinking. We do not allow underage drinking. Our laws
are different, because we have a different society. If you are 18 in Aruba you are of age
and responsible for your own acts. You are allowed to vote and are obligated to join the
Dutch Marines. So our lawmakers feel that if you are allowed to decide you country's fate
and are asked to die for it, you should be able to order a beer and smoke a cigarette. To
put things in perspective. In the US you are allowed to drive at 16. In Aruba you have to
wait until you are 18. Nobody claims you are allowing underage driving.

jvds himself has said he had been going to the casinos to drink and gamble with his dad since he was sixteen.  deepak says he has driven his mother's car and you're supposed to be eighteen before you can get a license.  jvds has said he has a v.i.p. pass to carlos'n charlie's and he has been drinking there since he was sixteen.  we know what your laws says about driving, drinking, and gambling ages, and we also know from the mouths of jvds and others that he has broken all those laws consistently and with the consent of his parents.  having laws that are not enforced by the a.l.e. and/or the parents of underage teens is not only useless but dangerous since nobody has to follow the law.
dennisintn