Lively Case Discussion #485 7/1 - 7/3/2006

[justinsmama]

Heading back to bed. I hate being oncall. I dunno which drives me more nutz~ the actual crises or the dumb reasons that we get calls.

[spooky112483]

Sorry I'm late I had a friend over and we were watching movies. I am just now catching up (sorry I missed all the music discussion, I love music and all the bands and songs ya'll talked about) I just flipped over to the news and heard this: "american soldiers accused of stalking, rape and murder....Israel and Palastine going at it...." i cant handle all that tonight. i might take out a gun and shoot my new TV
think I'll watch "Ray" and enjoy the music...."if you dont want you dont have to get in trouble"

Don't shoot the messenger.  You just bought it.

uh oh. what did i do? dont shoot me the drunkard on wine either
(psst...we had some champage too....)    

[spooky112483]

Sorry I'm late I had a friend over and we were watching movies. I am just now catching up (sorry I missed all the music discussion, I love music and all the bands and songs ya'll talked about) I just flipped over to the news and heard this: "american soldiers accused of stalking, rape and murder....Israel and Palastine going at it...." i cant handle all that tonight. i might take out a gun and shoot my new TV
think I'll watch "Ray" and enjoy the music...."if you dont want you dont have to get in trouble"

Don't shoot the messenger.  You just bought it.

uh oh. what did i do? dont shoot me the drunkard on wine either
(psst...we had some champage too....)    

remember i have been drinking but do u mean i just bought into the MSM crap??? is that what you're saying? you know me better than that. i just mean i cant handle this crap from the MSM tonight....if thats what you meant??????????

[Tylergal]

Sorry I'm late I had a friend over and we were watching movies. I am just now catching up (sorry I missed all the music discussion, I love music and all the bands and songs ya'll talked about) I just flipped over to the news and heard this: "american soldiers accused of stalking, rape and murder....Israel and Palastine going at it...." i cant handle all that tonight. i might take out a gun and shoot my new TV
think I'll watch "Ray" and enjoy the music...."if you dont want you dont have to get in trouble"

Don't shoot the messenger.  You just bought it.

uh oh. what did i do? dont shoot me the drunkard on wine either
(psst...we had some champage too....)    

remember i have been drinking but do u mean i just bought into the MSM crap??? is that what you're saying? you know me better than that. i just mean i cant handle this crap from the MSM tonight....if thats what you meant??????????

No, don't you shoot your new TV.  Didn't you just get it? Or did you forget after a glass of wine?  

[Anna]

.
Well, I am up taking meds, too, all us old folk falling apart at once in this heat!

Spooky, she meant you just bought the TV and not to shoot your new TV  Nothing about MSM!!  LOL

That photo taken two hours before Natalee disappeared just broke my heart!

Back to bed at least it is cool now.

.

[spooky112483]

yes i am "buzzed" sorry  
and now i am sad over this new pic of Natalee... she was FINE!! until these little shit heads got her.

[spooky112483]

so i need to turn the lights out?

[Easywriter]

Can the H/T’s sue Carlos-n-Charlies and the Excelsior Casino?  Wouldn’t bringing the action at least give them an opportunity to people on the ground in Aruba and do a proper investigation?

This all just seems too simple to me and should have been solved quickly, if there was any serious investigation undertaken by the proper authorities in Aruba.

Joran and friends enter a familiar bar not long before closing and single out their prey, which is probably the first girl in the place willing to talk to them for more than five minutes.  He lures his victim away from her crowd by talking her into going to a less crowed bar on the other side of the joint where he probably knows the bartender.  He gives the bartender a nod and slips him an extra twenty for two shots of 151.  Minutes later Natalee feels light-headed and dizzy.  Joran assures her it is just from the strong drink and offers to walk her outside to get fresh air and walk off the effect.

Natalee had enough to drink that she was not being as cautious as she normally would have been and she was probably under the impression that Joran was also staying at the Holiday Inn.  She agrees to walk out of the bar with the creep and he leads her toward the back parking lot.  He then convinces her to sit down in the car, or he pushes her into it and they drive away.

We do not know for certain what she said as they passed by a group of her friends.  We have heard different accounts and the Dutch re-enactment has too many flaws to be believable.  Maybe Joran did tell Deepak to circle the bar a few times to reassure Natalee and give the drug more time to take effect.  That is uncertain, but at some point Natalee began to drift into unconsciousness while being groped by the big Dutch kid.

They did not go to the lighthouse, or to the beach.  They went straight to Joran’s apartment and she was carried into the place.  That is where she began “to talk crazy” and that is when Joran became concerned about waking his dear old dad.  Then “something bad happened” to Natalee and that was probably an effort to keep her quiet.  The big jerk either hit her, knocked her down and she hit her head causing a mortal wound, or he grabbed her and while trying to muffle her screams he broke her neck.

That is basically what I think happened up to that time and caused her death, but the mystery begins after that tragedy.  What happened next?  How would these three characters react to such a thing?  What would be their first step?

Can we think like these three guys and determine a logical progression based upon the theory I have put forth?

[Mere]

Good morning friends....leaving soon....going to the big city....!  Save my place.....

[justinsmama]

Hi, monkeys! Busy next few days for this primate. Going to two family get togethers, one today and one on Tuesday.  Gonna start cleaning the new place. Silly me volunteered to deliver meds Tuesday morning so no one would have to have their holiday broken up (when will I ever learn?). Debating about whether to just stay there or return home most nights. The latter would be a waste of time and gasoline, but there is nothing like sleeping in one's own bed.   Then there is the cat. Freak him out by taking him with us or freak him out by having us gone several days?  

[Anna]

Good morning All,


Easy,
That scenario seems highly possible.  I have considered head injury especially to the top that could not be accounted for in a fall, suffocation/strangulation but never a broken neck before.  Joran is certainly large enough to inflict that kind of injury as well.  

For whatever their reasons Aruba made the decision not to investigate and subsequently they will not prosecute these known suspects.  My latest thoughts on that are that certain ones who assisted in the cover up fear their own part of it will become known.  Some of their refusal to do their job has to be illegal in any system.  Maybe they think if there is no evidence of a crime, they cannot be held responsible for not investigating/prosecuting.  No crime/no one derelict of duty?

[terryd270]

Hi!!  Anything happen on the Lineup lastnight?

[Anna]

.
Terry,
Beth provided a new photo of Natalee taken just a couple of hours before she disappeared and she appears perfectly sober and like she was not even drinking at all to me.  Clear eyes, nice smile with friends and very much in control.   Klaas managed to take a photo of her TV screen so she posted in here last night, the new photo.

Jossy said it was public knowledge that at certain bars in Aruba you could just give the bartender  or his helper $20 and he would drug a drink.  Not just C&C but other bars as well.

.

[BTgirl]

Morning Terry.

What Anna said.

Thongs good today?

[terryd270]

Anna,

I guess just another validation that she was drugged by the PIMPS..  The sad thing is the rats are all escaping the sinking island now that they have been shown to the world..  Well have a good day..

[terryd270]

BTGirl,

Its just sad that Natalee had no reason to be looking for these PIMPS.. She was with her friends and just having a good time.. She had no idea that there were these PIMPS looking for some meat..

[justinsmama]

BTGirl,

Its just sad that Natalee had no reason to be looking for these PIMPS.. She was with her friends and just having a good time.. She had no idea that there were these PIMPS looking for some meat..

Yes, it is sad. And tragic and abominable and a travesty.

[justinsmama]

Gotta hit the road. I'll probably come back home this evening.

[Anna]

.
Also Jossy said he believed Natalee was drugged as did beth and Dave.  Jossy said he tends to believe parts of what the Columbian witness being detained said.  Does not kow why he would get involved if lying from the beginning, would not make sense.  Cable was found where he said the body was taken out into the water.  Beth tends to wonder in part of what he said was true.  Dave seems to totally discount all of what the witness says.

.

[Kat_Gram]

Can the H/T’s sue Carlos-n-Charlies and the Excelsior Casino?  Wouldn’t bringing the action at least give them an opportunity to people on the ground in Aruba and do a proper investigation?

snipped

Easy, I had thought of that, but wonder why JQK isn't doing that .

In the responses to JQK's filing in NY, Taco Joe mentions C & C's, the Casino and the security co as failing to " protect" Natalee.
???
C & C's ... In Dave's book, Oduber says that we have been trying
to close the place down for years.
..
Carlos and Chalies is owned by the Anderson group of companies.
They own Senor Frogs and a few other places in Mexico. But what goes on in Aruba is not part of the franchise deal.

I often wondered about a letter writing campaign to the Anderson group.
I would like to see the ALE sued, the same as Paulus did.