Lively Case Discussion #485 7/1 - 7/3/2006

[Easywriter]

Anyone else get that baby hippo email that is being passed around?  That is kinda cool.  

Is this something the refugees started?

No it is about this baby hippo that was rescued after the Tsunami and taken to an animal preserve.  It adopted a hundred year old turtle as its mom.  The pictures are kinda neat.

[Tylergal]

Can the H/T’s sue Carlos-n-Charlies and the Excelsior Casino?  Wouldn’t bringing the action at least give them an opportunity to people on the ground in Aruba and do a proper investigation?

This all just seems too simple to me and should have been solved quickly, if there was any serious investigation undertaken by the proper authorities in Aruba.

Joran and friends enter a familiar bar not long before closing and single out their prey, which is probably the first girl in the place willing to talk to them for more than five minutes.  He lures his victim away from her crowd by talking her into going to a less crowed bar on the other side of the joint where he probably knows the bartender.  He gives the bartender a nod and slips him an extra twenty for two shots of 151.  Minutes later Natalee feels light-headed and dizzy.  Joran assures her it is just from the strong drink and offers to walk her outside to get fresh air and walk off the effect.

Natalee had enough to drink that she was not being as cautious as she normally would have been and she was probably under the impression that Joran was also staying at the Holiday Inn.  She agrees to walk out of the bar with the creep and he leads her toward the back parking lot.  He then convinces her to sit down in the car, or he pushes her into it and they drive away.

We do not know for certain what she said as they passed by a group of her friends.  We have heard different accounts and the Dutch re-enactment has too many flaws to be believable.  Maybe Joran did tell Deepak to circle the bar a few times to reassure Natalee and give the drug more time to take effect.  That is uncertain, but at some point Natalee began to drift into unconsciousness while being groped by the big Dutch kid.

They did not go to the lighthouse, or to the beach.  They went straight to Joran’s apartment and she was carried into the place.  That is where she began “to talk crazy” and that is when Joran became concerned about waking his dear old dad.  Then “something bad happened” to Natalee and that was probably an effort to keep her quiet.  The big jerk either hit her, knocked her down and she hit her head causing a mortal wound, or he grabbed her and while trying to muffle her screams he broke her neck.

That is basically what I think happened up to that time and caused her death, but the mystery begins after that tragedy.  What happened next?  How would these three characters react to such a thing?  What would be their first step?

Can we think like these three guys and determine a logical progression based upon the theory I have put forth?

I'm right with you. I keep trying to layer Freddy in, but am unsure where exactly to put him. The recorded van conversation tells me that Freddy is a key player in this, along with JK2.
Beth agrees with the scenario too. She has said many times that they know Natalee was taken to Joran's apt. but what happened after, is what they want to find out.

I lean toward the apt not being the crime scene.  Hard to make it fit with phone/computer timeline.  Why does Joran tell Deepak "I'm home" if Deepak had already dropped him off at home.  And in the polis van conversation Joran accuses 2K of harming Nat, that doesn't make any sense unless 2K knew it would have been possible for them to harm Natalee without Joran's knowledge.  Hard to do that in his apt.  They may have stopped by the apt but plan to have sex with her there was aborted because she wasn't passed out, so they let her out near her hotel with Joran instead.  Then Joran assaulted and killed her on the beach.

Hotel, motel, beach, apartment, etc.  She disappeared at the hands of the perverted VDS gang.  I still believe it was HI and Mike Posner made sure the videos were "disappeared".  Heck, if you can make a body disappear, a whole human being, imagine what you can do with a video.  No big deal.  Where is the footage that we know in our own minds was taken of Natalee.  Were they being paid by someone to take these videos?  Were these girls doing this under the pretence of modeling for a magazine, what about a bridal magazine?

[Tylergal]

Anyone else get that baby hippo email that is being passed around?  That is kinda cool.  

Is this something the refugees started?

No it is about this baby hippo that was rescued after the Tsunami and taken to an animal preserve.  It adopted a hundred year old turtle as its mom.  The pictures are kinda neat.

    We had just been talking about the Refugees above and I was not sure they had for once done something humorous, unwittingly, you know.  

[Tylergal]

Anyone else get that baby hippo email that is being passed around?  That is kinda cool.  

Is this something the refugees started?

No it is about this baby hippo that was rescued after the Tsunami and taken to an animal preserve.  It adopted a hundred year old turtle as its mom.  The pictures are kinda neat.

I have seen them and they are cute.  Can we get somebody who works very hard and rarely says no to us, to post it.  You think.    Please!

[Nut44x4]

The earrings could be evidence or items kept by the suspect as a souvenier.

Long, dangly earrings like that can be easily torn from the ears in a struggle.  They are something that a perpetrator could easily overlook as missing and left behind at the scene.

Just another reason they should have searched the entire VDS compound - every nook and cranny.

And Anita's jewelry box??  

OMG that pix was enough to make even my dog vomit!!

.

Oh, Anna, I just had a late lunch and the vision of her in that brown see-thru blouse with the white bra and those dangly earrings was just a bit more than my less than tin-lined stomach could take.

[Nut44x4]

Not sure what happened to my post.....but what I said was....that Pix was enugh to make even my dog vomit...

[mrs. red]

I suppose the NY Judge is having a wonderful Holiday Weekend with her family and friends right about now...this is just so out of control I can barely even speak of it....probably a good thing I can't, cause what I would like to say wouldn't be prudent.

I hope she hasn't already decided to rule against the family, if so it is really cruel to drag this out.

My feeling was that the longer it takes the more likely she is to rule for the plaintiffs, but I know nothing about legal matters.   Someone who does said that is usually the way it works tho.

I am only a paralegal...but that is what I see...

[Easywriter]

Anyone else get that baby hippo email that is being passed around?  That is kinda cool.  

Is this something the refugees started?

No it is about this baby hippo that was rescued after the Tsunami and taken to an animal preserve.  It adopted a hundred year old turtle as its mom.  The pictures are kinda neat.

I have seen them and they are cute.  Can we get somebody who works very hard and rarely says no to us, to post it.  You think.    Please!

I will try to post it.  If it is too big Klaas can zap it, I hope.

[Easywriter]

I can't make it work.  

[Tylergal]

Anyone else get that baby hippo email that is being passed around?  That is kinda cool.  

Is this something the refugees started?

No it is about this baby hippo that was rescued after the Tsunami and taken to an animal preserve.  It adopted a hundred year old turtle as its mom.  The pictures are kinda neat.

I have seen them and they are cute.  Can we get somebody who works very hard and rarely says no to us, to post it.  You think.    Please!

I will try to post it.  If it is too big Klaas can zap it, I hope.

Easy, you can go to www.tinypic.com and downsize it to reasonable size per your request.

[SunFreak2]

If someone has a list compiled already of all the evidence found so far in Aruba, like the Belt..Duct Tape/Hair, Deepak's car, etc.    Could you email it to me?  I don't have a list compiled and it will save me a bunch of time.  TIA

You've got email, Klaas.

The Evidence:
Phone calls
Bone – found on 7-6-05 in area of Marriott hotel
Arm bones - 8-15-05 it is reported that the still interconnected human bones of a woman’s forearm and hand has been found washed-up on the VENEZUELA Las Piedras beach, near the town Punto Fijo (the southwest side of the VENEZELA peninsula nearest to the west coast of ARUBA, about 18 miles away).
Fabric – found in Arikok park on _______
Security Shirt – found 6-6-06 in Colony area of SE Aruba
The bloody mattress found 6-5-05 in SE Aruba
Sunglasses - found 6-6-06 in Colony area of SE Aruba
Plastic bits – found bt Fred Golba near location where belt was found
Duct tape with blond hairs – found in Arikok Park on 7-17-05
Natalee’s toothbrush – analyzed & found to have male DNA on it
DNA – ruled on _______ that J2K’s DNA was illegally obtained
The cars
Panties – polka-dotted underwear found near huts on _________ by Albert Vrojlek
Aru-bay videos
Paulus’s letter – arrived in September, revealed to public and sent to DFI on 12-9-05
K-Swiss tennis shoe(s) – size 14 – bloody one found during search of Joran’s apartment
Aru-Bay Videos - ?

[Kat_Gram]

.
Off to finish my work so I can listen in tonight.  Dr Rosenthal on TV said sunscreen does NOT block out the most harmful rays of the sun, only the ones that cause sunburn!  He said only zinc oxide or special sunblockers get the bad rays that lead to melanoma and other forms of skin cancer.  That is the white stuff life guards put on their noses or you can get a whole tube of it for a dollar or two as diaper rash ointment.  Thing is, who is going to smear that all over??  And get on clothing.   Very hard to remove but he said it would block it all.  

I am sure it would but your appearance would be very startling to say the least.  It is hard to apply, too.  

.

So, put diaper rash ointment on the nose ?
I just use sunscreen for kids.. 40 SPF.
My old skin doctor told me to stay out of the sun. This was after he removed several pre cancerous things from my face. That was 18 years ago. I used to love to bake in the sun. Bad thing to do.
I go to the waterslides and the beach once in a while but am all smeared up with goo goo. If I miss a spot with the goo goo, it just tuns red and
itchy. I get sunscreen moisturizer and use it all year. The suns rays off the SNOW ( yes snow... it is 85 degrees here now )  in the winter is also very damaging. The ozone layer is different and more damaging rays come thru.

Zinc oxide is much better and cheaper, but will not draw members of the opposite sex like a magnet, as it is not very attractive, looks like you have big globs of cotton pasted on you here and there.

At my advanced       age 50 + I am not the vain thing I used to be !  I've seen ppl with NOSE GUARDS made out of paper and attached to the sunglasses ? . Sort of looks like some strange birdies.
I just hate it when I get a big sun rash that lasts for a month.
My mum was allergic to the sun later in her life and I think I have the same thing. We use to go to the beach here where it was strutting time on the boardwalk. All the bodybuilder guys and models would be there. same thing now, just their kids. ! !  Thinking about it now is really funny ! ! But I did look HOT ! !  Or, thought I did ! ! I would not leave my house unless every hair was in place, everything matched and makeup galore ! ! Glad I got over that !    

[oldfart]

Just peeking in for a second or two..
antother site had this year + old site Fox News item posted
June 15 2005.   http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159601,00.html
Nice to re-read old info at times
"Charles Rafini, the Aruban teen who says he found the underwear and condoms in the brush"

JMO


Have a good day Monkeys....

[Easywriter]

I sent the hippo to Klaas.  Maybe she can put it in the lounge.  It is sorta inspirational.

[Tylergal]

I sent the hippo to Klaas.  Maybe she can put it in the lounge.  It is sorta inspirational.

 

I agree with you that it really is.  I trust she will when she gets her chores done.  I know she must be working on a project at the time.

[Ono]

Hope everyone has a splendid July 4th Weekend!  

Why thank you, Ono!   I am trying but the weather is just a bit much for me  99 degrees with 30% humidity and a UV factor of10+ Extreme has me mostly housebound.   At least watermelons abound and are everywhere, ripe and free around here.  Am almost through cooking and it will have to last for the whole weekend, too.  I have not been able to convince my ancient mother to join us yet but am hoping she will for dinner.  

I hope you have a nice 4th as well.  I know I do appreciate my country and our system more than ever after watching closely that of another country.  This is the system I want with open courts and procedures and juries instead of smarmy friends of the suspect judges.
 

Just got caught up reading!  Thanks Anna!
And thanks to Klass for the new Natalee photo and to Jacque for transcribing The Lineup..I missed it last night.

Yes..more than ever before, I treasure and appreciate what a wonderful country America is. This case has really brought it home to me. I truly pity those living elsewhere...

[Tylergal]

Ono, I wish you a great Fourth.  You are a nice person whose gestures deserve to be repaid and although our young men and women in combat and non-combat service do that for all of us, I am wishing you right back a Happy Fourth as well as all our young men and women in uniform and all the monkeys.

[Ono]

Ono, I wish you a great Fourth.  You are a nice person whose gestures deserve to be repaid and although our young men and women in combat and non-combat service do that for all of us, I am wishing you right back a Happy Fourth as well as all our young men and women in uniform and all the monkeys.

  Thank you Tyler!

[klaasend]

I sent the hippo to Klaas.  Maybe she can put it in the lounge.  It is sorta inspirational.

Easy - the pictures didn't show up in your email??  That happens sometimes.  Can you simply forward it to me from whoever sent it to you??  It might work that way.  Then I can copy and post it in the Monkey Lounge.

[klaasend]

I sent the hippo to Klaas.  Maybe she can put it in the lounge.  It is sorta inspirational.

 

I agree with you that it really is.  I trust she will when she gets her chores done.  I know she must be working on a project at the time.

Tylergal - Yes, working on a project for Red and trying to clean bathrooms at the same time, lol