Natalee Case Discussion #766 7/22 - 8/5/08

[johan555]

Johann, Is that a new picture?

yes i think so !

[klaasend]

joran's brother  hunting in the Party Bus

Looks like that photo is taken at someone's home.  I'll see if I can figure out what it is from.  It is fairly recent though, within the last 6 months I'd guess.

[johan555]

joran's brother  hunting in the Party Bus

Looks like that photo is taken at someone's home.  I'll see if I can figure out what it is from.  It is fairly recent though, within the last 6 months I'd guess.

yes 17 may 2008

[Rob]

Hi and Good Morning everyone. I hope everyone is doing well!

I was away for a little bit and had some time to think about a few aspects of the case.

I guess for me it's always been a government sanctioned murdered, and I went back to some of my original thinking while I was away. I think the jury is in on that. The Sloots and Kalpoes DID make something bad happen to Natalee and the government covered it all up to protect tourism.

Here's where I'm at currently, and I think this is where I will probably be remain.

Natalee was indeed "disappeared" due to her injuries. Those injuries caused Natalee's death, not any drugs she was slipped. A combination could certainly exist, but in my opinion, Natalee was not going home with those injuries, dead or alive. The motivating factor was rape. Every crime needs a motivation. I've seen a few stories recently that have a person murdered and the authorities saying that there does not need to be a motivational factor to commit a crime. That's dead wrong and always has been. Sex crimes are usually brutal and leaves the victim scarred for life, should he / she survive. Classic case is the woman that was raped and tortured for 19 hours and miraculously survived. The motivation was a rape / power / control / sex. It always is in a case such as Natalee's.

I got caught up in the hopes that the Persistence would locate Natalee. I really wished it would happen, however, I think the only chance that she will be recovered by any search vessel will be by shear luck. I believe Natalee was recovered by the ALE in the first 10 days and according to Zandaam she could have been recovered as early as day two. This seems much more likely to me.

Aruba has been covering up crimes against tourists for so long it's old hat to them. Instead of coming clean, they immediately resort to their known modus operadi. That's how they roll. Now their caught. They just can't up and admit they did what so many have accused them of since day two. A government as insecure as Aruba will never admit what they did here, and the next administration will most likely keep the cover up on going. That's how third world governments work. Always have and always will. The next election in 2009 is almost meaningless. No one is going to open the vault to the real docs and lay the blame at the feet of any one person or describe in detail what they know or what went down here. That would have happened already.

So, where is Natalee? - it will be the question so many Americans will ask for a generation, if not longer. This isn't going away any time soon, if ever. Too many people care about Natalee, even if it is only in passing conversation.

I guess in my opinion, there are only two probabilities left.

1. Natalee is gone and will never be found. She was found by the Aruban Authorities early on and they incinerated her. She will not ever be located. The AAs had 3 years to get the mess over with and if they could give Natalee back and get this over, they would. They have been hammered by us and so many others (more on that shortly). They made a decision early on and have to live but it. They can't undo what has been done. They wish they could, but it's too late.

2. The Aruban Authorities found Natalee early on and decided to cover the crimes to protect tourism. While the investigation was on going the Aruban Authorities need to get this over and came up with another idea. This scenario involves the recovery of Natalee and the placement of Natalee in the ocean. In a sense, they want Natalee found, but can not appear to have had anything to do with it. So credible tips come in and that leads to a search. That search reveals 170+ targets on the ocean floor, and the Aruban Authorities wait for the next search to sort it all out and through attrition Natalee is found.

In my opinion, scenario number two is remote. And scenario one is the most plausible.

Scenario two is very remote for several reasons, the first would be that the Dutch have their own navy with all the advance equipment the Persistence uses and there have been no known searches for Natalee to my knowledge. The Dutch could have found Natalee more than two years ago if they really wanted to and she was located in the ocean. Secondly, as related by OE, the Persistence got out the ROV when a target looked like it could meet the description of a container Natalee was placed in. I don't recall how many targets were identified as looking like a match, but we all now that at least one target was interesting enough to check it out further. We will probably never hear an official report on what was really found there.

"Higher Powers" = it's out the Sloots hands. They just go with he flow and have mentally absolved themselves of the crimes they themselves have committed against Natalee and her family. Joran tells us all that the the Patrick tapes. That equals the propaganda campaign. The Sloots need rehabilitated and Natalee needs to be furthered tarnished. There is no need for the propaganda campaign if Natalee was everything that the haters described her as. People like Gielen would not touch this third rail if this was not all about the Sloot and not Natalee. So, it's all about the rehabilitation of the murdering raping Sloot Family. Interesting that the Aruban Government is not seeking a rehabilitation make over. Those brave enough in Holland are saying just that. They are what they are and always will be. The Sloots are confined to Aruba. They are in jail so to say. They are not coming to the US. They know what that would entail. They would last about 2 seconds. The lovers here want them dead.

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break

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while I was away, I had a chance to speak to a lot of people and some were in the tourism industry. Not one person I spoke to thought Natalee simply disappeared. 100% agreed that Joran and the Kalpoes killed Natalee and not one would ever consider going to Rooba or ever going back. We met quite a few that had been to Aruba many times and just simply mentioning the name Aruba made people want to yak. Every single person knew who Natalee was. There was no need to explain any of the circumstances that encompass the case, everyone knew the details. One woman in particular knew all about TES and the Persistence and the bloggers and posters.

Aruba is destroyed. They made their bed and now must live with it. They know that. We know that. It's a valuable lesson for other governments.

The Aruba Brand will never ever be the same. Actually it is the same as it ever was, it's just now exposed. Aruba will not be coming back from what they created for themselves. I'm quite sure that it's all over for Aruba. They may say in the future that things are improving, but the reality is the only people still going there are those that have time-shares and are stuck.

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break

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the mayhem currently happening on Aruba is extremely repulsive. I actually saw the Black Squad on AWE24 for the first time in a few years, and they seem to be trying to put a lid on the violence and mayhem. Then there was the mob scene in downtown Oranjestad the other night. That was a tourist brochure scene if I've ever seen one!

Not to mention all of the vehicular homicides over the last few weeks. Aruba should be a golf cart community. Those people can not handle a real motorized vehicle.

[johan555]

It's a kind of a party bus for heavy boozers and they had a stop at a local bar

[johan555]

The legal drinking age is 18 on Aruba

[klaasend]

Rob - I agree and great to see you back. 

[dennisintn]

joran's brother  hunting in the Party Bus

looks like he's following right along in big brothers footsteps. heartwarming, isn't it?  i'm sure anita and paulus are just thrilled to death for him.
dennisintn

[Rob]

Rob - I agree and great to see you back. 

Thank you Klaas, good to be back!!!

here's a new one - hot off Fox!

British Newlywed Murdered While on Honeymoon in Antigua

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392101,00.html

- let's see how Antigua deals with this one.

[dennisintn]

joran's brother  hunting in the Party Bus

Looks like that photo is taken at someone's home.  I'll see if I can figure out what it is from.  It is fairly recent though, within the last 6 months I'd guess.

yes 17 may 2008

they have a party bus that tours all the different bars on the island.  is it this one?
dennisintn

[Rob]

It's a kind of a party bus for heavy boozers and they had a stop at a local bar

this bus is the

Kukoo Kunuku
    Dinner & Bar-Hopping Bus
    Tel: (297) 586-2010
    www.kukookunuku.com

I've been on that thing once... last stop was CnC

[always 1]

Interesting post Rob, glad your back..

[Nut44x4]

Rob - I agree and great to see you back. 

Rob....agreed! Welcome back.

[johan555]

[dennisintn]

Rob - I agree and great to see you back. 

Thank you Klaas, good to be back!!!

here's a new one - hot off Fox!

British Newlywed Murdered While on Honeymoon in Antigua

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392101,00.html

- let's see how Antigua deals with this one.

according to tourist minister, eddie briesen, aruba's handling of the natalee holloway case is now the model to be used by cari. tourist centers in the death/disappearances of tourists.
dennisintn

[truthseeker2]

Rob,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  I sense a touch of the inevitable in your writing.  I also understand why that is.  Many of us who have posted in support of justice for Natalee at this site have always had a very difficult time accepting that a government would assist in such a deplorable act as what we know happened on Aruba.  The individuals involved in the death of this young woman you would expect to lie their way through this...but to have the very individuals responsible for law and order join in and approve the cover-up defies our sense common decency.  To rob a person of their life, to rob a family of the chance to even have that loved one returned to them and to actually make a concerted effort to 'destroy' the victims of this cruel and inhumane act sickens us to no end.

I hope you are not giving up on finding the answers as I think many will continue to search in their own ways.  You have dedicated so many hours to finding justice for Natalee and her family and I know you were hopeful, as we all were, that these answers would come.  I think they will come.  It's just a matter of time.

[BTgirl]

Rob - I agree and great to see you back. 

Thank you Klaas, good to be back!!!

here's a new one - hot off Fox!

British Newlywed Murdered While on Honeymoon in Antigua

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,392101,00.html

- let's see how Antigua deals with this one.

Hi Rob,

I visited Antigua once and thought it was a cut above most of the places in the Caribbean. I'll bet they hop on this crime and try to solve it as quickly as possible so as to not scare off any of their well-heeled tourists/residents. Below is a list from Wikipedia of a few of the famous people who own property there:

Oprah Winfrey, American television/entertainment icon and entrepreneur; owns a home near Galley Bay
Eric Clapton, established an Antiguan drug treatment centre; has a home on the south of the island
Giorgio Armani, Italian fashion designer; owns a home near Galley Bay
Calvin Ayre, billionaire founder of internet gambling company Bodog Entertainment Group
Allen Stanford, Texan billionaire, and business tycoon.
Robin Leach. of Lifestyles of the rich and famous fame.
Larry Flynt, US-based Publisher.
Silvio Berlusconi, Italian Prime Minister
Timothy Dalton, Actor of James Bond fame
Richard Branson, Virgin Atlantic mogul

[carpe noctem]

[bleachedblack]

joran's brother  hunting in the Party Bus

Looks like that photo is taken at someone's home.  I'll see if I can figure out what it is from.  It is fairly recent though, within the last 6 months I'd guess.

Kinda looks like a bar/restaurant to me just by the way the wine glasses are suspended in the background along the ceiling.

[bleachedblack]

Yikes just tell me WTH is going on? Is this a bar IN aRUBA or a night at the senior citIzen circus? Only makes me scratch my head and ask once again WTH?