Lively Case Discussion #520 9/4 - 9/7/2006

[Ono]

Here is my next question

When the Dutch Team takes over the investigation will they have complete access to the case files which will include the videos of the interrogations?  Will the statements match up with the videos?  Will the videos be edited?  Or do you think that there will be no videos because they were reading from a script.

I am in sincere hopes that the so-called 'Dutch Team' has brains enough to catch onto the sanitizing, etc. of the Natalee files; not wish to be made fools of by the existing rinky-tink "authorities" on Aruba; have enough integrity to adhere to the accepted legal and moral ethics of the civilized world; and to have the manly guts to call a spade a spade. (Thank goodness for their bringing their guns--they will need them I bet) ..If they fail to investigate properly, it will not only be a tragic dis-service to Natalee, but the entire world will observe and be disgusted with Holland. Heretofore, I have always held the Dutch in higher regard. We shall see...

[klaasend]

Hi Monkeys...

I'm dumber than my normal self tonight.

I thought there was a date that Karin (Karen?) Jansen was stepping down?
I'll be darned if I can find any reference to her retirement / leaving?

Then again I may have been just have one of those (too frequent) moments.

Have I totaly lost it or is she stepping down?
A little help please..  

I believe her "term" was up in November?  Speculation is that she has vacation time coming to her and could leave sooner.

Klaasend
Thank you...    
I May losing it ...but not over the edge yet  

Just wondering...
Dutch coming in... some protocol is going to be signed in late September with Aruba and Holland (that I think applies to the Dutch taking over the investigation) and Justice-minister Rudy Croes asked for this to happen when ??
Just wondering

I want to say it was a couple weeks ago that it was reported in the paper that Rudy Croes was requesting the Dutch to take over.  There were issues to be worked out before the Dutch would agree.  Those issues have now been worked out and the Dutch have agreed.  Now we see in yesterday or todays paper that Rudy is going to the Netherlands in late September and will sign the papers allowing it all to happen.  We also hear approximately the same time frame from the Dutch team that they should start in 2-3 weeks.  Don't ask me why 2-3 weeks, I haven't a clue.

[Ono]

Anybody remember an article from last year (August?) where the Dutch Youth Specialists were interviewed? They talked about how great they worked together with ALE and how satisfied they were with the outcome of the Joran interrogations. I've been looking for it but cannot find it now.

All I remember is that the Dutch were as exasperated with Joran as the FBI observers were...The FBI decided that Joran was the van der Sloot family dictator.....he ran the show at home.

[oldfart]

Durnit anyway

forgot this part of the last post..

Seems like the was some RUMOR type questions related to the status of Aruba's independence from Holland?  Conditions to be met and some financial stuff???

I wonder what the people of Aruba would do if their quasi / pseudo Independence from Holland really came in to question?
Just Wondering... Gotta run an get Foood!!

SeeeeYaaaByeeeeeeeeeee..

[SunFreak2]

I am in sincere hopes that the so-called 'Dutch Team' has brains enough to catch onto the sanitizing, etc. of the Natalee files; not wish to be made fools of by the existing rinky-tink "authorities" on Aruba; have enough integrity to adhere to the accepted legal and moral ethics of the civilized world; and to have the manly guts to call a spade a spade. (Thank goodness for their bringing their guns--they will need them I bet) ..If they fail to investigate properly, it will not only be a tragic dis-service to Natalee, but the entire world will observe and be disgusted with Holland. Heretofore, I have always held the Dutch in higher regard. We shall see...

I agree with you Ono.  Much is at stake here for the Dutch.  They need to perform credibly to save their own reputation.  Afterall, the International Court is at the Hague.  They received much criticism after the 3 or 4 year long case of Milosevek who died in their custody before the case was finished.  Natalee's case has brought much criticism about their legal/justice system too.  The eyes of the world are watching them and this directly influences their tourism trade.

[Shell]

Good evening you all.

What's their point of bringing up the fact that the Dutch are bringing guns? Is that supposed to make us think they will be thorough? We want answers, not a show of guns. JMHO

[Sam]

Ok Mrs Red,

I consider myself busted. LOL

It is true I do not always check the front page right away. When Klaas or Red gives a link to a new front page post on Aruba or Natalee I always check that. Just may not read the others. I will go check that post out now.

As to drugs, they have always been there. Maybe not as much heroin but LSD and marijuana and cocaine. Most of the time marijuana was all the young folks could afford unless they stole Valium or other meds from someones medicine cabinet.

Drugs have increased everywhere. JMHO

[justinsmama]

One of the things of course that hit me when I read the article was this:

State police were alerted to the carnage Monday evening by Nielsen's father and stepmother who arrived at inn to find a woman's body and blood outside. Nielsen's father told troopers that he thought his son had committed the killing, according to prosecutors

So his Father turned him in instead of trying to help his son cover up the crime.

Quite a difference in attitude and yet I am sure it hurt this father too.

San , did Paulus pay for Freddies attorney also?

Nielson's father did not participate in the crime, either. Paulus, what say you?

[Shizaru]

I had some suspicions and they've been confirmed.  The statements have caused someone you would not expect to have a change of heart.  That is all I can say.

[Ono]

Durnit anyway

forgot this part of the last post..

Seems like the was some RUMOR type questions related to the status of Aruba's independence from Holland?  Conditions to be met and some financial stuff???

I wonder what the people of Aruba would do if their quasi / pseudo Independence from Holland really came in to question?
Just Wondering... Gotta run an get Foood!!

SeeeeYaaaByeeeeeeeeeee..

The way I understand it, Aruba has been given a virtual free rein but is completely dependent upon Holland for it's protection/survival in case of a real military invasion from an outside country.....Roughly speaking, Holland was very hesitant to trust Aruba to function correctly on it's own--(now we see why)..but agreed to some demands made by Aruba. For example: If Chavez decides to invade, Holland is obligated to defend Aruba. As it stands now, it appears to the casual *******, that Chavez is slowly eeking his way in without firing a gun.

[justinsmama]

Durnit anyway

forgot this part of the last post...

LOL! This reminded of what happened last night. Living in Indiana, I run across some folks who are ultimate Hoosiers. I was trying to find a client's home. I called there, and the guy who owns the house answered. He told me that I had gone "too  fur. LOL! I could not help it, and I replied "I went too fur, huh?" I hope that he did not take offense, as it mere tickled my funny bone. I'm still chuckling over it.

[klaasend]

I had some suspicions and they've been confirmed.  The statements have caused someone you would not expect to have a change of heart.  That is all I can say.

???  Can you give us any more?  Can you email me, lol  

[Shizaru]

I had some suspicions and they've been confirmed.  The statements have caused someone you would not expect to have a change of heart.  That is all I can say.

???  Can you give us any more?  Can you email me, lol  

I'm sorry I can say no more.  But trust me, the statements are having an impact.

[klaasend]

I had some suspicions and they've been confirmed.  The statements have caused someone you would not expect to have a change of heart.  That is all I can say.

???  Can you give us any more?  Can you email me, lol  

I'm sorry I can say no more.  But trust me, the statements are having an impact.

That I'm glad to hear.  Would this be a positive impact as far as we are concerned?

[Ono]

I am in sincere hopes that the so-called 'Dutch Team' has brains enough to catch onto the sanitizing, etc. of the Natalee files; not wish to be made fools of by the existing rinky-tink "authorities" on Aruba; have enough integrity to adhere to the accepted legal and moral ethics of the civilized world; and to have the manly guts to call a spade a spade. (Thank goodness for their bringing their guns--they will need them I bet) ..If they fail to investigate properly, it will not only be a tragic dis-service to Natalee, but the entire world will observe and be disgusted with Holland. Heretofore, I have always held the Dutch in higher regard. We shall see...

I agree with you Ono.  Much is at stake here for the Dutch.  They need to perform credibly to save their own reputation.  Afterall, the International Court is at the Hague.  They received much criticism after the 3 or 4 year long case of Milosevek who died in their custody before the case was finished.  Natalee's case has brought much criticism about their legal/justice system too.  The eyes of the world are watching them and this directly influences their tourism trade.

Yes, you are right..much is at stake ~ I wish to see Holland re-gain/maintain a high reputation...they are very smart and take themselves very seriously and rightly so.

[Shizaru]

I had some suspicions and they've been confirmed.  The statements have caused someone you would not expect to have a change of heart.  That is all I can say.

???  Can you give us any more?  Can you email me, lol  

I'm sorry I can say no more.  But trust me, the statements are having an impact.

That I'm glad to hear.  Would this be a positive impact as far as we are concerned?

Yes.

[Ono]

Good evening you all.

What's their point of bringing up the fact that the Dutch are bringing guns? Is that supposed to make us think they will be thorough? We want answers, not a show of guns. JMHO

Perhaps it's a warning to the thugs who have been roaming around on Aruba?

[Shizaru]

I had some suspicions and they've been confirmed.  The statements have caused someone you would not expect to have a change of heart.  That is all I can say.

???  Can you give us any more?  Can you email me, lol  

I'm sorry I can say no more.  But trust me, the statements are having an impact.

That I'm glad to hear.  Would this be a positive impact as far as we are concerned?

Yes.

To clarify, not in the sense that it would help the investigation, but in the sense that it shows the statements are hurting Joran.

[robots]

OFF TOPIC

Mrs Red, I was reading on aol news about the murders in a town near Bethel Maine.
http://articles.news.aol.com/news/_a/guest-charged-in-horrific-killing-spree/20060905073909990006?ncid=NWS00010000000001

What a shocker. When we lived in Maine I think it had the lowest crime rate in the nation. A great place to raise children. I am so glad we were able to raise our children there. I imagine it still has a low crime rate.
JMHO

Sam

some of us still live there

[SunFreak2]

We've been talking about the new Dutch investigators and whether they will get all the statements & videos of the statements or just the sanitized versions.

 On 12-1-05, Beth told MSNBC, "I mean Dan, there are unbelievable statements coming from Joran van der Sloot from June 9, 10, 11, 12, and 13 that have audio and videotape that they need to be worrying about those and reviewing those and not just one taped evidence that Jamie Skeeter was able to obtain.”

I've always believed that Joran was the one who confessed.  I've believed that at least Natalee's blood was recovered from the rocks, if not her body.

Look at the timeline:

June 9 – ~6 – 6:30 AM - J2K arrested on “reasonable suspicion of murder, manslaughter or intentional containment with the dead as consequence”

June 9 – Deepak’s car is impounded, his computer seized along with other personal effects during a search of the Kalpoe residence

June 9 - 6:00 PM - International School of Aruba senior graduation @ Wyndham Hotel

June 9 – Oduber hugs Beth Twitty at a press conference

June 10 – Natalee’s loved ones rush to the lighthouse area after a police official tells the media that one of the three young men in custody admitted “something bad happened” and was leading police to the scene.

June 10 - Beth stated that her D.N.A. was requested by JANSSEN (BETH gave saliva and blood samples)

June 10 - Late that evening FOX News, AP and CNN reported that Dompig and Edward Croes stated that one of the arrested suspects had confessed, and police were being taken to a crime scene. DOMPIG also stated that one of the persons in custody had stated  "that something bad happened to NATALEE.”  Shortly after that statement became public, a press conference was held in which one senior government official made no reference to the Assistant Commissioner's statement, choosing rather, to say that the authorities were at a critical juncture in the investigations.

June 10 - Beth & Dave told by FBI that Natalee may no longer be alive because the 3 Main Suspects were “beginning to implicate each other, and they were not denying the crime, and they were finger-pointing at each other.”

June 10 - BETH phoned her mother and told her that Natalee was probably no longer alive.

June 10 - This weekend began scaling back of search for Natalee. ALE search teams venturing out only after credible tips & coast guard patrols offshore

June 10 - Oduber addresses Aruba that if something bad happened to Natalee it would be bad for the island long considered one of the safest CARIBBEAN OCEAN nations to visit, whose main industry is tourism.

June 10 – Aru-Bay video of what appears to be the recovery of a body is filmed.  It is later claimed to be that of a 7 year old illegal immigrant from Columbia, although the body is later reported to have been found a year earlier

June 11 - Rudy Croes states twice that one of the boys is talking and a body will be found soon.
June 11 - Oduber says there is blood in Deepak's car

June 11 – The radio stations in Aruba are also reporting that ARUBAN police are heading to recover NATALEE’s remains. First it was at the lighthouse, then it was Bubali Plas (shallow lake), then it’s Canashito, at the rock

June 11 or 12 – Julia Renfro hysterically notifies the Twittys that Natalee had been found dead and moved to the island’s courthouse.  Julia inserts herself to the Twittys’ overcrowded mini-van as they rush to the courthouse where they are met by a throng of television cameras.  The family finds the courthouse locked and apparently empty. Julia claimed her information came from a deputy information office in the justice department, but it was found that no official ever leaked the information.

June 11 –Vivian van der Biezen, spokeswoman for the Attorney General said, “The investigation (is) was at a very crucial point.”

June 11 – Video tape of strange events taking place near the lighthouse were uploaded to the internet.

June 11 – Public announcements regarding confession & body location are officially retracted

June 11 – Aru-Bay video of rock painting is filmed. Aru-Bay video of body
recovery is uploaded to internet.

June 11 - vd STRAATEN was asked by a DUTCH journalist if he had any hopes for a positive outcome? STRAATEN replied, “You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.” When asked why not, STRAATEN replied, “Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!”
June 11 - Curacao criminal judge DICK van den BRINK came to Aruba & remanded J2K to be held for an additional 8 days

June 12 - Families asked to stop talking to the press

June 12 - Amalin Flanegin was added as second prosecutor after rumors that she would replace Jannsen

June 12 – An Amigoe article in the Aruban newspaper stated, “The father of one of the boys is a substitute judge. And every impression has to be prevented that the judge that is assigned is friends with the father of the boy.”

June 12 - Aru-Bay video of rock painting is uploaded to Internet

June 13 – Joran reportedly tells ALE that Deepak killed & buried Natalee near the huts.  Joran reportedly also claims that he was dropped at his home at 1:40.

June 13 - “FoxNews” RIVERA reported he just got off the phone with the Justice Minister RUDY CROES, and that CROES said there would be a “resolution to the case momentarily.”

June 13 – John & Jones were released. JONES was released after his wife and mother testified that JONES was home sick all day 5-29 and 5-30 and wife was continuously with JONES.

~~~~
OK, on 6-10 the Aru-bay videos show strange activity at the rocks.  Beth is asked for her DNA - to match up with what was found at the rocks? Then we hear on Nat'l news shortly after midnight that one of the boys has
confessed and that Natalee is dead.  We have Rudy Croes the Minister of Justice stating twice that the body of Natalee will be soon found.  Vivian Briezen states that the case is at a critical juncture.  On 6-11, vd Straaten makes his famous, "I know the details of the investigation and you don't" statement.  Oduber says there is blood in the car.  Judge comes from Curacao on a Saturday to remand J2K for an additional 8 days. On 6-12, a Sunday, Aruba adds an assistant DA to the case.  Then on 6-13 John & Jones are released.  And on 6-13 Joran begins changing his story several times trying to distance himself as being the last known person to be with Natalee.  We also have ALE scaling back on the investigation b/c they already know what happened.

In my book this is a big slam dunk that they knew back on 6-10 what happened to Natalee.  I hope the new Dutch team can get to the bottom of this coverup, expose the corruption and nail the perpetrators of the crimes against Natalee.