Lively Case Discussion #521 9/7 - 9/9/2006

[Shizaru]

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Whoa!  Did I miss something?  I didn't think we knew to whom this person was supposedly talking.  Could be to LE or could be for a book deal.  I don't believe Garrison said they were talking to him, did he?

Just that somebody was talking.  I assumed that meant to some element of law enforcement either in this country or in Aruba and tended to think it was in this country for some reason, maybe the recent migration here from Aruba by so many involved.

But this person is not talking to Garrison are they?  Just Garrison knows they are talking??

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Hi Anna - I'm not sure we know.  I kind of took it as he was working with "people" that were working with someone who was talking.

Right, he's not just saying he has knowledge that they are talking, he's saying he's involved  And that doesn't sound like a law enforcement operation to me.  How does Garrison get involved unless whoever is talking wants a book deal.

[KatzHome]

GOODNIGHT EVERYONE - I wish I could stay up more and chat but I'm too tired.

Good night, San...

And I'm so hoping that these rumors of "someone talking" pan out this time...  it's sounding good...  I'm hopeful but prepared for disappointment...

[Bearlyhere]

I wonder what she'll incarnate into next and where?

Beelzebub?

[KatzHome]

Did anyone else notice that Jorans 3:15 am IM to Deepak "Hey Swa, Im home" came from his cell phone not his computer?

"You are telling me that on May 30th 2005, at approximately 03.15 I sent a message with my mobile phone to Deepak that said: "Hey Swa (buddy) I am home now, I will see you tomorrow". After that Deepak sent a message to you with the answer "Okay". To your question what I can say about that, I can state the following. It is true. I did send that message to Deepak".

"Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable"

So Joran and Deepak could have been sitting next to eachother in the car and sending IMs claiming to be home. We don't know that they were in fact home, all we know is that they IMed eachother from somewhere saying they were home. If they were truely home, they would have used house computers or house phones. This also raises questions how the IM traffic appeared on the home computers if they were using cell phones, it could be all IM traffic is eventually uploaded back to the host computer.

And this is something that I hope technology can track...

[Shizaru]

Did anyone else notice that Jorans 3:15 am IM to Deepak "Hey Swa, Im home" came from his cell phone not his computer?

"You are telling me that on May 30th 2005, at approximately 03.15 I sent a message with my mobile phone to Deepak that said: "Hey Swa (buddy) I am home now, I will see you tomorrow". After that Deepak sent a message to you with the answer "Okay". To your question what I can say about that, I can state the following. It is true. I did send that message to Deepak".

"Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable"

So Joran and Deepak could have been sitting next to eachother in the car and sending IMs claiming to be home. We don't know that they were in fact home, all we know is that they IMed eachother from somewhere saying they were home. If they were truely home, they would have used house computers or house phones. This also raises questions how the IM traffic appeared on the home computers if they were using cell phones, it could be all IM traffic is eventually uploaded back to the host computer.

It's just the 3:15 text message that was sent by cell phone.  The subsequent IMs were sent by computer.

[Anna]

Klaas,
That is sort of how I take it as well because he doesn't say they told HIM anything.

But heading for the monkey bunkey myself.  I will say with regard to Dompig that when he went to Holland but was still passed over for Chief of Police as he was, he expressed his outrage that yet another Dutchie was appointed over the Arubans.  He was angry about that.  And in the end he winds up without a job, retired either by choice or by force.

So I hoped he was angry enough to break the ALE cover up but instead he went on TV with his Booty  crazy brother-in-law who not only lives in the bushes but not just any bushes, he lives in the very ones right outside Natalee's hotel room, etc. overdosed theory, I just gave up on his being of use in getting to the truth but he has to resent losing his job and he said he resented another Dutch Chief over all the Arubans.

Guess he is just as bad as the rest of them, just has his Booty theory he is pushing instead of the Bushy Haired Stranger came along and took Natalee that most ALE seem to favor.  That, or she just vanished as Arlene claims.

Nite, all!

[Kat_Gram]

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Whoa!  Did I miss something?  I didn't think we knew to whom this person was supposedly talking.  Could be to LE or could be for a book deal.  I don't believe Garrison said they were talking to him, did he?

Just that somebody was talking.  I assumed that meant to some element of law enforcement either in this country or in Aruba and tended to think it was in this country for some reason, maybe the recent migration here from Aruba by so many involved.

But this person is not talking to Garrison are they?  Just Garrison knows they are talking??

.

I am confused now too. Are we talking about one person that Garrison was referring to ? That is what I was talking about when I pushed Dompid forward. . untiil Shiz said something. Oh well, we will all have to go to sleep and tomorrow is another day. Hope I can catch Dave on Dana......

[wreck]

Thanks, Red for the earlier comments! I have always maintained that our FBI knows WAY more than what we are led to believe by the media or those who purport to know.  THANK GOD the true insiders such as SM, and the family have kept 95% of the facts "secret". If that was not the case -- then I would REALLY be worried!

As a related topic -- over the years people have often said our Government/Military are "really stupid" and they "don't tell us the truth" about our very own Defense capabilities. I have always replied to these people that I sincerely "hope to God" that they are NOT divulging everything they know or are capable of! (Then I would REALLY be worried!)
This same principle applies to the case here.

[SunFreak2]

Right, he's not just saying he has knowledge that they are talking, he's saying he's involved  And that doesn't sound like a law enforcement operation to me.  How does Garrison get involved unless whoever is talking wants a book deal.

The excerpt from his book is very helpful to understand what he does. He has a reputation as easy going, easy to talk to person that knows the ins and outs of the news media machine.  Most people have never had hordes of media descending on them at once.  Larry reaches out to them and offers his expertise on how to navigate it.  They talk about the help they will need and about the story and how it can be manipulated to be something it isn't. Most people want their side of the story to be heard.  Larry listens, checks the facts, and carefully considers how to procede.  He wanst to be on the side of the truth, to get to the bottom, and that usually takes hearing all sides of the story.

[Bearlyhere]

Klaas,
That is sort of how I take it as well because he doesn't say they told HIM anything.

But heading for the monkey bunkey myself.  I will say with regard to Dompig that when he went to Holland but was still passed over for Chief of Police as he was, he expressed his outrage that yet another Dutchie was appointed over the Arubans.  He was angry about that.  And in the end he winds up without a job, retired either by choice or by force.

So I hoped he was angry enough to break the ALE cover up but instead he went on TV with his Booty  crazy brother-in-law who not only lives in the bushes but not just any bushes, he lives in the very ones right outside Natalee's hotel room, etc. overdosed theory, I just gave up on his being of use in getting to the truth but he has to resent losing his job and he said he resented another Dutch Chief over all the Arubans.

Guess he is just as bad as the rest of them, just has his Booty theory he is pushing instead of the Bushy Haired Stranger came along and took Natalee that most ALE seem to favor.  That, or she just vanished as Arlene claims.

Nite, all!

Where else would a Bushy Haired Stranger live but in the bushes?

The Bushy Haired Stranger lives in the bushes.  His name is Bootie and he got Hootie.  Sounds like good investigating to me.  

[Anna]

[quote="ShizaruRight, he's not just saying he has knowledge that they are talking, he's saying he's involved  And that doesn't sound like a law enforcement operation to me.  How does Garrison get involved unless whoever is talking wants a book deal.[/quote]

Same way we are getting the statements?  Leaks, bribes, inside sources?  Could be book deal involved also but doesn't have to be about one.  

[Shizaru]

[quote="ShizaruRight, he's not just saying he has knowledge that they are talking, he's saying he's involved  And that doesn't sound like a law enforcement operation to me.  How does Garrison get involved unless whoever is talking wants a book deal.

Same way we are getting the statements?  Leaks, bribes, inside sources?  Could be book deal involved also but doesn't have to be about one.   [/quote]

But Garrison isn't presnting this as a leak, he's not saying "Sources tell me that someone is talking"... he's saying he's part of the process of getting this person to talk.

[SunFreak2]

I'm not a believer in the big conspiracies so I don't think Dompig has anything to talk about other than what a moron he is.  I don't think there are more than 2 or 3 people on Earth who know what happened to Natalee and where she is, and I don't see anyone with such knowledge spilling it for a book deal without making a deal with law enforcement first.  So I wouldn't invest much hope in this.  I'll be happy to be proven wrong tho.

No one in the know said anything about this person spilling their guts for a book deal. It was merely a statement that someone is talking about the case to him. They seem beleivable so far, but that Larry's team is taking it slowly, checking the story out as to how things match up. When they are satisfied the story checks out, they will bring the witness to the appropriate authorities to further confirm the story.  Most likely if this person succeeds in getting the case solved there will be a story in that or at least an addition in a 2nd book about Natalee's story as to how it was solved.  I don't give a rats patootie what the person's motivation for singing is, I'm just glad they are doing it to help bring some much neede answers to this grieving family. The person could want the reward money, a better life off of Aruba, a book or movie deal, or might just need to do the next right thing and get it off their chest.

[nonesuche]

Hi Sunfreak-

I think you did a great job of detailing what likely is Garrison's approach and method, and I do think we are picking this to death to an extent, for there simply is not enough verifiable source information on this as of yet.

I also have often thought the less anyone knows regarding any type of cooperative confession or even statement, the better until it's all said and done. Too much water under this Aruba bridge for there to be acceptable risk in having a leak or to afford Paulus and friends any leap on what may be happening.

I think this family and even Garrison have learned this, over the course of events to date in dealing with the Aruban authorities.

[Anna]

[But Garrison isn't presnting this as a leak, he's not saying "Sources tell me that someone is talking"... he's saying he's part of the process of getting this person to talk.

Oh. I thought he just knew about somebody talking.  If he is involved, well good for him!  

Between the statements, the Dutch, someone talking and all the rest of what is happening now, surely some progress will be made,  Hope so!

[Spock]

Did anyone else notice that Jorans 3:15 am IM to Deepak "Hey Swa, Im home" came from his cell phone not his computer?

"You are telling me that on May 30th 2005, at approximately 03.15 I sent a message with my mobile phone to Deepak that said: "Hey Swa (buddy) I am home now, I will see you tomorrow". After that Deepak sent a message to you with the answer "Okay". To your question what I can say about that, I can state the following. It is true. I did send that message to Deepak".

"Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable"

So Joran and Deepak could have been sitting next to eachother in the car and sending IMs claiming to be home. We don't know that they were in fact home, all we know is that they IMed eachother from somewhere saying they were home. If they were truely home, they would have used house computers or house phones. This also raises questions how the IM traffic appeared on the home computers if they were using cell phones, it could be all IM traffic is eventually uploaded back to the host computer.

It's just the 3:15 text message that was sent by cell phone.  The subsequent IMs were sent by computer.

I dont think so, thats a leap, I think they were all cell phone IMs

[klaasend]

Did anyone else notice that Jorans 3:15 am IM to Deepak "Hey Swa, Im home" came from his cell phone not his computer?

"You are telling me that on May 30th 2005, at approximately 03.15 I sent a message with my mobile phone to Deepak that said: "Hey Swa (buddy) I am home now, I will see you tomorrow". After that Deepak sent a message to you with the answer "Okay". To your question what I can say about that, I can state the following. It is true. I did send that message to Deepak".

"Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable"

So Joran and Deepak could have been sitting next to eachother in the car and sending IMs claiming to be home. We don't know that they were in fact home, all we know is that they IMed eachother from somewhere saying they were home. If they were truely home, they would have used house computers or house phones. This also raises questions how the IM traffic appeared on the home computers if they were using cell phones, it could be all IM traffic is eventually uploaded back to the host computer.

It's just the 3:15 text message that was sent by cell phone.  The subsequent IMs were sent by computer.

I dont think so, thats a leap, I think they were all cell phone IMs

Good point Spock.  How would we know by the computer records that have been posted if the IM that Joran got on his computer came from another computer or a cell phone.

[nonesuche]

Just an aside but did anyone watch Christopher Darden on Oprah this week? I did, I wanted to hear his perspective a decade later, and he was quite forthcoming. I do feel there are parallels at various levels between Joran and OJ, as well as the legal machinations of the investigations.

Darden seems to be forever changed by the experience, even seems ashamed by parts of it, and he surely isn't a fan of Fuhrman's or his newfound celebrity. What I found interesting was the similarities of how certain parts of the OJ investigation were soft-pedaled just as we've seen in Joran and Paulus' case. Darden also spoke to the "poker" that is played between prosecutors and defense attorneys very succinctly, even the hands played before a trial ever begins.

As he said, it's a defense attorney's job to defend their client and it doesn't matter to a defense attorney if their client is guilty. Someday sooner than later, I hope more is said regarding Joe T's poker plays, as well as all of us realizing he likely never cared if Joran was guilty or not. He cared only about being hired to defend him, show me da money, so to him it's not about conscience but the almighty dollar.

[Spock]

Did anyone else notice that Jorans 3:15 am IM to Deepak "Hey Swa, Im home" came from his cell phone not his computer?

"You are telling me that on May 30th 2005, at approximately 03.15 I sent a message with my mobile phone to Deepak that said: "Hey Swa (buddy) I am home now, I will see you tomorrow". After that Deepak sent a message to you with the answer "Okay". To your question what I can say about that, I can state the following. It is true. I did send that message to Deepak".

"Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable"

So Joran and Deepak could have been sitting next to eachother in the car and sending IMs claiming to be home. We don't know that they were in fact home, all we know is that they IMed eachother from somewhere saying they were home. If they were truely home, they would have used house computers or house phones. This also raises questions how the IM traffic appeared on the home computers if they were using cell phones, it could be all IM traffic is eventually uploaded back to the host computer.

It's just the 3:15 text message that was sent by cell phone.  The subsequent IMs were sent by computer.

I dont think so, thats a leap, I think they were all cell phone IMs

Good point Spock.  How would we know by the computer records that have been posted if the IM that Joran got on his computer came from another computer or a cell phone.

Yes, thats right. I dont think either Joran or Deepak were home, it was all cell phone to cell phone IM traffic. ALE had figured this out by the time the statement was taken and that was why the question was phrased as it was. Joran admitted to creating false IM traffic, that is also quoted above.

[Bearlyhere]

How was the food?

I have missed you, None.

I always wonder when we should leave something rest as not to upset the apple cart.  Sometimes things said take on a life of their own, jmo.