Lively Case Discussion #521 9/7 - 9/9/2006

[sb]

Hi everyone.

Ho-hum, the stealers strike again. No props to our Pennsylvania monkeys from me because the refs so clearly handed that game to their boys last night. Ignoring a red flag for a replay- unforgivable. And those bogus interference calls. I better not get started because my anger will kick in again, I didn't even post last night because I was so mad.

Anyway, if Shizaru is around...  the post I sent about Garrison and your comments was not meant to link the two in any way. They are 2 separate lines of thought concerning the case, both of which MAY indicate some kind of positive movement. I also am not 100% confident of the bona fides of Larry Garrison- I mean, I was confident of Greta and look at what happened. The only qualifying point I can make here is that DAVE HOLLOWAY thought enough of Garrison to let him co-author the book, which says something.

I also see CLEARLY a scenario in which someone is talking in order to deliver BOGUS info which would be favorable to Joran. That would not surprise me in the least.

Any of you ever ask yourselves just WHY they want to get this boy "off" so much?  

[mrs. red]

Morning all y'all !
JUst caught up in time to go back to work.... and yep, it's wayyyyyyyyy overrated!!

Hey FOM...

[klaasend]

What is the basis for the rumor that Koen is in Atlanta?

Front page poster LINDA, who is in Aruba and is familiar with the Gottenbos family said that they moved to the states.  That it MIGHT have been Atlanta.

GOODMORNING ALL!

[Easywriter]

What is the basis for the rumor that Koen is in Atlanta?

Front page poster LINDA, who is in Aruba and is familiar with the Gottenbos family said that they moved to the states.  That it MIGHT have been Atlanta.

GOODMORNING ALL!

Let's give them a call! lol

[sb]

And what possible reason would the Gottenbos family have for coming to the US? Didn't the father have a business or practice of some kind? That kind of career is no so easily transferred to another country.

Moving to Holland, maybe, but the US...

What US connections would they have?

IF they have some degree of guilt in the case, why move to the very "belly of the beast" where they might be easily accessed by American law enforcement (FBI)?

That does not strike me as being very smart, unless for some reason they consider the US to be more of a "safe harbor" than Aruba or Holland.

Another quick point and then I need to go.

Why is it that all the principals in this case look like such faceless, powerless family-next-door non-entities at first glance... and then turn out to have all these hidden connections and clout that is not self-evident at first?

They're getting it from SOMEWHERE.  

[Easywriter]

And what possible reason would the Gottenbos family have for coming to the US? Didn't the father have a business or practice of some kind? That kind of career is no so easily transferred to another country.

Moving to Holland, maybe, but the US...

What US connections would they have?

IF they have some degree of guilt in the case, why move to the very "belly of the beast" where they might be easily accessed by American law enforcement (FBI)?

That does not strike me as being very smart, unless for some reason they consider the US to be more of a "safe harbor" than Aruba or Holland.

Another quick point and then I need to go.

Why is it that all the principals in this case look like such faceless, powerless family-next-door non-entities at first glance... and then turn out to have all these hidden connections and clout that is not self-evident at first?

They're getting it from SOMEWHERE.  

A quick white pages search turns up a lot of people with the Gottenbos name.  Most seem to be in California.  Maybe some family ties in the states?

The van Cromvoirt family packs up and leaves Aruba, the Gottenbos family leaves Aruba, Guido Weaver immediately left Aruba.  Who else?  Jossy has mentioned people quickly leaving Aruba before ALE could speak with them.  Any ideas about who else left in a hurry?

[Kimmy53]

Good Morning all you fine monkeys!!  

Whew - between work and reading back, I am just now catching up!!!

Peaches - if you're still here - hope that tooth is better, or on the way to getting better!

[Peaches]

Kimmy, I have a cyst around my lower left wisdom tooth that I am going to have fixed somehow...next Tuesday!  So lots of antibiotics and lots of pain.  What fun.   Thanks for asking.

Yapperz, please email me.  Perhaps Klaas can facilitate that.  TY

[Jacqueline]

Kimmy, I have a cyst around my lower left wisdom tooth that I am going to have fixed somehow...next Tuesday!  So lots of antibiotics and lots of pain.  What fun.   Thanks for asking.

Yapperz, please email me.  Perhaps Klaas can facilitate that.  TY

Peaches, I had a cyst the size of a quarter over my tooth about 15 years ago...

You will feel sooo much better after that pounding is gone, but my face stayed swollen for about a week after...

Small price to pay though, after the relief you will feel after.

[Peaches]

Glenda posted at RU that the VDS's were going to be in NY.

Thanks. Did ya see that Glenda was officially outed as being Renfro on RU? By a moderator, no less? I think Renfro has been editing her posts like crazy ever since.

Gettng ready to leave ...BUT is this soemthing we can COPY & PASTE here
?? for all to enjoy!!

I would like to read and enjoy this item as well.  Any chance, Klaas?  Feel free to put it in a seperate thread if you'd like.   I think a lot of folks would enjoy it!  TY

[Peaches]

Kimmy, I have a cyst around my lower left wisdom tooth that I am going to have fixed somehow...next Tuesday!  So lots of antibiotics and lots of pain.  What fun.   Thanks for asking.

Yapperz, please email me.  Perhaps Klaas can facilitate that.  TY

Peaches, I had a cyst the size of a quarter over my tooth about 15 years ago...

You will feel sooo much better after that pounding is gone, but my face stayed swollen for about a week after...

Small price to pay though, after the relief you will feel after.

Thanks for telling me that, Jaci.  In my shoes, when I hear the word "cyst" I get nervous.  My DH had a cyst around a tooth as well and the oral surgeon said it is not uncommon.  I'm looking forward to having it over with!

[nonesuche]

SB-

Really good point about the lack of obvious connections for these suspects and their families, you phrased that so well and it does account for why so many of the pieces in this don't fit to the naked eye. It's what is unseen which is the real story here.

Easy-

You might ask Renfro where the Gottenbos family is, she migrated from CA to Aruba, since she seems to enjoy exposing travel plans for suspects  

Peaches-

I am sorry about the cyst but oh so happy about your outstanding news, you are already beating this and we're so proud of you!

Everyone have a good day...

[Jacqueline]

Kimmy, I have a cyst around my lower left wisdom tooth that I am going to have fixed somehow...next Tuesday!  So lots of antibiotics and lots of pain.  What fun.   Thanks for asking.

Yapperz, please email me.  Perhaps Klaas can facilitate that.  TY

Peaches, I had a cyst the size of a quarter over my tooth about 15 years ago...

You will feel sooo much better after that pounding is gone, but my face stayed swollen for about a week after...

Small price to pay though, after the relief you will feel after.

Thanks for telling me that, Jaci.  In my shoes, when I hear the word "cyst" I get nervous.  My DH had a cyst around a tooth as well and the oral surgeon said it is not uncommon.  I'm looking forward to having it over with!

No very common and totally painful...

Like a hot poker bam bam bam...

After it was over I had to go in myself to get the meds at the pharmacist and this little kid kept pointing at me to his mother saying....Ohhhhhhhhhh look at that lady's face mom.

I went home and looked in the mirror and cried ....

Looking back now i think how silly.,..just don't want you to be alarmed at the way you may look....It's temporary (and I know you know that) but it took a while to completely go back to normal....

[klaasend]

Glenda posted at RU that the VDS's were going to be in NY.

Thanks. Did ya see that Glenda was officially outed as being Renfro on RU? By a moderator, no less? I think Renfro has been editing her posts like crazy ever since.

Gettng ready to leave ...BUT is this soemthing we can COPY & PASTE here
?? for all to enjoy!!

I would like to read and enjoy this item as well.  Any chance, Klaas?  Feel free to put it in a seperate thread if you'd like.   I think a lot of folks would enjoy it!  TY

Nope, they actually deleted the entire thread at RU later that night.  What happened was that SCOOP who I believe to be one of JR's alter egos got banned for saying some creepy stuff.  Glenda then got very angry that Scoop was banned.  Diva responded to GLENDA and in her response she called Glenda Julia.  Then the conversation took off from there.  

Like I said though, they deleted the entire thread.

[Kimmy53]

Peaches - I hope you can hang in there until Tuesday!!!  Prayers for a quick recovery and a relief from the pain.  Ugh.

We have been kicking around the idea that it may be Koen that is perhaps talking... How old is Koen?  Isn't he brother to Sander?  Or am I totally mixed up?

[Florida]

And what possible reason would the Gottenbos family have for coming to the US? Didn't the father have a business or practice of some kind? That kind of career is no so easily transferred to another country.

Moving to Holland, maybe, but the US...

What US connections would they have?

IF they have some degree of guilt in the case, why move to the very "belly of the beast" where they might be easily accessed by American law enforcement (FBI)?

That does not strike me as being very smart, unless for some reason they consider the US to be more of a "safe harbor" than Aruba or Holland.

Another quick point and then I need to go.

Why is it that all the principals in this case look like such faceless, powerless family-next-door non-entities at first glance... and then turn out to have all these hidden connections and clout that is not self-evident at first?

They're getting it from SOMEWHERE.  

A quick white pages search turns up a lot of people with the Gottenbos name.  Most seem to be in California.  Maybe some family ties in the states?

The van Cromvoirt family packs up and leaves Aruba, the Gottenbos family leaves Aruba, Guido Weaver immediately left Aruba.  Who else?  Jossy has mentioned people quickly leaving Aruba before ALE could speak with them.  Any ideas about who else left in a hurry?

June 2005
Who left Aruba?

(2) Unknown Surf Shop employees

Guido Wever
GM of Excelsior Casino

Michael Posner
Paul Brough
Chuck Di Perri

Gabriel A.G. Leo
A.B. Albert
Jairo Dirksz
_________________________________________________
Aug. 2006

Gottenbos'

[Florida]

We have been kicking around the idea that it may be Koen that is perhaps talking... How old is Koen?  Isn't he brother to Sander?  Or am I totally mixed up?

I would guess Koen is about 18/19 yrs. old
His youger brother Sander maybe 17

Seems they are not related to Joran
Based on the sudden change in Koen's appearance....
He may be going thru a tough time.

 

[Anna]

["You are telling me that on May 30th 2005, at approximately 03.15 I sent a message with my mobile phone to Deepak that said: "Hey Swa (buddy) I am home now, I will see you tomorrow". After that Deepak sent a message to you with the answer "Okay". To your question what I can say about that, I can state the following. It is true. I did send that message to Deepak".

"Deepak and I had agreed that we should talk a lot on the phone and "Chat" a lot on internet to make our story believable"

So Joran and Deepak could have been sitting next to eachother in the car and sending IMs claiming to be home. We don't know that they were in fact home, all we know is that they IMed eachother from somewhere saying they were home. If they were truely home, they would have used house computers or house phones. This also raises questions how the IM traffic appeared on the home computers if they were using cell phones, it could be all IM traffic is eventually uploaded back to the host computer.

It's just the 3:15 text message that was sent by cell phone.  The subsequent IMs were sent by computer.

I dont think so, thats a leap, I think they were all cell phone IMs[/quote]

NFI report stated that Joran's IMs were from his computer.   They also checked Deepak's cell and computer records so they would know if he's lying and the IMs were sent from his cell not computer.  

What is a leap are these elaborate, Occam's Razor defying conspiracy theories that involve the trio behaving like criminal masterminds for a few hours, then promptly becoming idiots, and telling very stupid lies that were contradicted by the same computer/phone records they supposedly had been creating to support their lies.[/quote]

Shizaru,
What do you think the part in bold above means?  Why would they decide this on the very night Natalee disappeared?  During the twenty previous times they had done this drill, could it have occurred to even these mentally challenged and alcohol fried brains that something COULD go wrong and a Plan B might be a good thing to have in place?  Might not computer alibis occur to them as well since that is a large thing with that group of Tickle/My Space afficianadoes?

Also, is that report from the NFI?  I sure missed their insignia if it is.  I thought it was just someone ALE hired for I would have thought NFI would do a far, far better job than that.  Truly disappointing if that is an example of their work.  Anybody could just read the messages off the computers like that.  Takes no skill at all and they did not delve into anything deleted.

The last paragraph totally renders it useless saying they cannot say what had been deleted from the computers.  I thought that was the point of their report but if they only take what the suspects chose not to delete, it is all moot.  Basically we have next to nothing and only what the supects themselves chose to leave to be found later.

That report is a joke as far as I am concerned for if they did not retrieve what was deleted, what was left means nothing either.  And their little scheme to use computers as alibi is hardly the work of criminal masterminds for I would say more like fourth graders could come up with that one or even a precocious six year old.    Ditto catching on to the possibility of wire taps since that would be at least 1960's technology.  These are cell phone babies and see the world a bit differently than the pre-mobile generation.

[Peaches]

Glenda posted at RU that the VDS's were going to be in NY.

Thanks. Did ya see that Glenda was officially outed as being Renfro on RU? By a moderator, no less? I think Renfro has been editing her posts like crazy ever since.

Gettng ready to leave ...BUT is this soemthing we can COPY & PASTE here
?? for all to enjoy!!

I would like to read and enjoy this item as well.  Any chance, Klaas?  Feel free to put it in a seperate thread if you'd like.   I think a lot of folks would enjoy it!  TY

Nope, they actually deleted the entire thread at RU later that night.  What happened was that SCOOP who I believe to be one of JR's alter egos got banned for saying some creepy stuff.  Glenda then got very angry that Scoop was banned.  Diva responded to GLENDA and in her response she called Glenda Julia.  Then the conversation took off from there.  

Like I said though, they deleted the entire thread.

No wonder I couldn't find it!  That's a riot!  Nothing like a little infighting to present a cohesive front.  

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Peaches]

We have been kicking around the idea that it may be Koen that is perhaps talking... How old is Koen?  Isn't he brother to Sander?  Or am I totally mixed up?

I would guess Koen is about 18/19 yrs. old
His youger brother Sander maybe 17

Seems they are not related to Joran
Based on the sudden change in Koen's appearance....
He may be going thru a tough time.

 

Addiction problem.......donuts.