Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #3

[carpe noctem]

Okay since we are on the maggots and trash and maybe most of this is known but
 
Interaction between humans and maggots usually occurs near garbage cans, dead animals, rotten food, and other breeding grounds for maggots.

Also  flies are very attracted to bodily fluids...

It takes about 10-14 days for a newly hatched maggot to complete it's life cycle and turn into a fly.The eggs hatch into maggots and they get their nutrients from eating the body. This also aids in decomposition.

Now I know bugs have been used to help cases before...But I don't remember maggots appearing on the pizza in that local news test, where they put the pizza in the car.It was just rock hard..

14 days after the 27th is the 10th of July...Unless the car was also full of flies.

Did Jesse live across the street from the apartments I cant remember. Maybe they used those dumpsters. Jesse could have kept an "eye out" for when the dumpsters were emptied. Also maybe thats when Zenaidas name was found in the trash at the apartments..

that is feasible!  that is a way of getting information without having

to involve a third party. ... digging through someone else's garbage.

...but which trash can? at which location?

Well if she did find at at the apartments I would think is was a dumpster close to the office. Unless the office uses different dumpsters. I wonder if Zenaida called to make an inquiry first and someone jotted down her name on a piece of paper, only to throw it away later..And I wonder if the dumpster close to the office is out of direct eyesight..

yup! could be... the timing of it all could work. casey was a very busy be

those last two weeks of june.

[Buckeye]

Casey and Caylee were due to return "late" 6/16.  So the morning of 6/17 arrives and they aren't home.  I would think that Cindy or George called to find out if they were ok.  What did Casey say during that call?  If she had planned to move out, she would have packed more than a backpack.  Did she return for more belongings?

During the call to the police, Casey begs to be given one more day.  Cindy responds she's already given her thirty days and she won't give her 31.  So, what did everyone do and think during those thirty days?  I just don't believe they didn't have any idea where Casey (? and Caylee) were. They had been living at the house and at least as of the 16th, hadn't mentioned moving out.   

[Rob]

I wish Greta (aka Gridle  ) would ask Cindy where she suggest we all start looking for Caylee.  I would just like to hear her answer.  I would also like to ask her why and or where all she has looked.   (or not looked)

Jennifer this is my biggest problem with Gertie.

She NEVER, EVER, EVER asks a question a normal person would ask - let alone a person with a law degree.

Contrast her with Nancy and it's a hole different ballgame.

[carpe noctem]

I am under the impression that maggots do not breed  period. Maggots fill themselves with all they can eat before turning into more flys. It is the flys that breed laying the eggs that become maggots. As to moisture , yes a pizza does have enough moisture to feed maggots initially. JMHO

Dr Baden talked about the maggots about two weeks ago. He said they only lay eggs during the day. Not at nite. That's a big clue in my opinion. That means if Caylee was dead on 6-16 2008 and placed somewhere it would not be until at a minimum of the following day that the flies laid the eggs, and more likely on 6-18-2008 that the flies. If Caylee was dead in the afternoon on 6-16-2008 the day would almost be over and flies could not have laid eggs until the following morning.

I would guess that there could not have been flies laying eggs until 6-18-2008 in the trunk of the car.

If you just use those two days as a gauge - it would mean that Caylee was stashed somewhere for about 24-36-48 hours until the flies do what they do naturally.

well, the dj said she was shacking up a tony's the last two weeks of june.

she even said: all of my stuff is centrally located at tony's.

maybe somewhere in that area is where she stashed the body... outside

for 2 or 3 days?

[mrskub]

I am under the impression that maggots do not breed  period. Maggots fill themselves with all they can eat before turning into more flys. It is the flys that breed laying the eggs that become maggots. As to moisture , yes a pizza does have enough moisture to feed maggots initially. JMHO

Dr Baden talked about the maggots about two weeks ago. He said they only lay eggs during the day. Not at nite. That's a big clue in my opinion. That means if Caylee was dead on 6-16 2008 and placed somewhere it would not be until at a minimum of the following day that the flies laid the eggs, and more likely on 6-18-2008 that the flies. If Caylee was dead in the afternoon on 6-16-2008 the day would almost be over and flies could not have laid eggs until the following morning.

I would guess that there could not have been flies laying eggs until 6-18-2008 in the trunk of the car.

If you just use those two days as a gauge - it would mean that Caylee was stashed somewhere for about 24-36-48 hours until the flies do what they do naturally.

That's absolutely correct Rob. I cannot count the number of maggot riddled bodies I have picked up. We could almost tell at the scene when they had been placed there.  The lifecycle of a decomp fly is about 19 days from egg fly. If she was killed or died on the 16th of June, that would place the maggots at about day 3 to 10 on June 19th thru 29th, depending on they stage they were found at in/on the trash bag.. The car was towed on the 30th. It all fits.

Here's a great explanation  and chart of the decomp fly cycle:

http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/corpse_fauna/flies/life_cycle.htm

[carpe noctem]

I wish Greta (aka Gridle  ) would ask Cindy where she suggest we all start looking for Caylee.  I would just like to hear her answer.  I would also like to ask her why and or where all she has looked.   (or not looked)

Jennifer this is my biggest problem with Gertie.

She NEVER, EVER, EVER asks a question a normal person would ask - let alone a person with a law degree.

Contrast her with Nancy and it's a hole different ballgame.

rob, are you talking about nancy whole, or gertie's hole?

i'm trying to follow, but i am having a hard time with it. 

[Sam]

To all you parents out there with children still needing babysitters , I am going to make a suggestion. Do not take someones word that this is a trustworthy person to leave your child with. Take a photo of the person plus make them show you a picture ID. Explain to them this is your most precious possession. Or maybe take a picture of them interacting with your child.

This was not a defense of Casey just a reminder to all.It is a scary damn world we live in today.

This next part is going to gross you out so you may not want to read.Maggots are still being used in the medical field. Not as often as years ago but still on occasion.They are placed on wounds that will not heal and allowed to eat until engorged and then removed. If they have not got down to new healthy tissue then new ones are put on then same process. They are usually counted when put on and counted again as removed and then destroyed as you would not want a hospital full of flies. Gross yes but it works. There are Medical supply places where they are purchased.

[Bearlyhere]

i cant find any information on where jesse grund lives...ill keep looking...

jesse grund____7000 lake marsha drive, orlando fl

Thanks.

[Rob]

Carpe, according to the reports I saw - Tony was asking continually where Caylee was and Casey always had a story - at baby sitter's, with nanny, on a trip with grandma... etc.

So, I think whatever happened - happened before she started shackin up. Seems like she was free and moving on - jmo though.

There is always the chance Tony is lying.

I think Klaas is right - this all happened on 6-16-2008 and you are also right - she was setting it up to appear as an abduction when she ditched the car.

[kippy]

I have little confidence in George's story of the 16th of June.  I hardly think Casey and Caylee left, just like any other day.  She was, or was planning on moving out.  I think that household was pretty ugly around that time.  I do believe that may have been the last time he saw Caylee, but not sure it was all happy and normal. 

[mrskub]

Casey and Caylee were due to return "late" 6/16.  So the morning of 6/17 arrives and they aren't home.  I would think that Cindy or George called to find out if they were ok.  What did Casey say during that call?  If she had planned to move out, she would have packed more than a backpack.  Did she return for more belongings?

During the call to the police, Casey begs to be given one more day.  Cindy responds she's already given her thirty days and she won't give her 31.  So, what did everyone do and think during those thirty days?  I just don't believe they didn't have any idea where Casey (? and Caylee) were. They had been living at the house and at least as of the 16th, hadn't mentioned moving out.   

Buckeye, IIRC, Cindy stated  she heard them both in the bedroom (but did not see them) on the morning of the 16th.

[always 1]

MMMMM, Carpe, Im telling Klaasend!!

[Rob]

I wish Greta (aka Gridle  ) would ask Cindy where she suggest we all start looking for Caylee.  I would just like to hear her answer.  I would also like to ask her why and or where all she has looked.   (or not looked)

Jennifer this is my biggest problem with Gertie.

She NEVER, EVER, EVER asks a question a normal person would ask - let alone a person with a law degree.

Contrast her with Nancy and it's a hole different ballgame.

rob, are you talking about nancy whole, or gertie's hole?

i'm trying to follow, but i am having a hard time with it. 

actually I f'd up the whole effin quote stack and my fingers and my brain are not linkin' all the way up today - but that's about the norm.

I think Gertie has a package so it must have been Nancy - but I think I just confused myself 

[crazybabyborg]

RE; Pizza

Years ago at a family reunion when we came home there was food in the trunk. And we forgot it. Four days later we had a smelly surprise. Baked beans were 3 different colors of mold, jello had liquefied and the broccoli salad smelled horrid.

But the 1/2 sheet of pizza was in remarkably good shape. It had shrunk by 25-30% but looked fresh out of the oven. And it still smelled like pizza.



No, I didn't eat it

  I can't believe it took sleddogs post to remind me of this! When my son was playing AAU baseball, his team won the State and went to the Nationals in Chickasha Oklahoma. I picked up pizzas, threw four boys with their gear, in my Honda wagon, and drove 90 miles to the Knoxville airport, where we boarded a plane. My car was in the Airport Parking lot for almost 2 weeks. On the drive back, the car broke down and was at a dealership for 10 days before I could arrange to pick it up. My son and his buddy went with me to get it, and I'll never forget his buddy opening that pizza box and waving around a slice of pizza asking me if I wanted a bite! We even cracked up because the darn thing LOOKED edible........dryed up and hard, but no mold or fuzz at all. I really stopped and considered how many preservatives were in pizza, knowing it couldn't possibly be good for anybody! There was no particular odor in the car either. It wasn't Florida, but it was summertime, and the car had been in the sun all of the time minus when it was actually being fixed in the dealership's garage.

[2NJSons_Mom]

I am under the impression that maggots do not breed  period. Maggots fill themselves with all they can eat before turning into more flys. It is the flys that breed laying the eggs that become maggots. As to moisture , yes a pizza does have enough moisture to feed maggots initially. JMHO

Dr Baden talked about the maggots about two weeks ago. He said they only lay eggs during the day. Not at nite. That's a big clue in my opinion. That means if Caylee was dead on 6-16 2008 and placed somewhere it would not be until at a minimum of the following day that the flies laid the eggs, and more likely on 6-18-2008 that the flies. If Caylee was dead in the afternoon on 6-16-2008 the day would almost be over and flies could not have laid eggs until the following morning.

I would guess that there could not have been flies laying eggs until 6-18-2008 in the trunk of the car.

If you just use those two days as a gauge - it would mean that Caylee was stashed somewhere for about 24-36-48 hours until the flies do what they do naturally.

That's absolutely correct Rob. I cannot count the number of maggot riddled bodies I have picked up. We could almost tell at the scene when they had been placed there.  The lifecycle of a decomp fly is about 19 days from egg fly. If she was killed or died on the 16th of June, that would place the maggots at about day 3 to 10 on June 19th thru 29th, depending on they stage they were found at in/on the trash bag.. The car was towed on the 30th. It all fits.

Here's a great explanation  and chart of the decomp fly cycle:

http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/corpse_fauna/flies/life_cycle.htm

I just found that site, too, mrskub.....here's one for housefly:

http://creatures.ifas.ufl.edu/urban/flies/house_fly.htm

[Bearlyhere]

   
                    Tony Lazzaro

[Blonde]

MAGGOTS

The common house fly, seen at the right, lays its eggs in rotting, moist material. The maggots emerge from the eggs in warm weather within 8 to 20 hours, and they immediately feed on, and grow in, the material where the eggs were laid. These larvae are 3 to 9 mm long, and creamy white in color.


When the maggots are full-grown, (picture at left) they crawl away to a dry, cool place near breeding material, and transform to the pupal stage.

http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/maggot/info.html
Flies spread disease to animals. Myiasis is the infection of an animal with fly larvae (maggots). Common in cattle, (picture at right), sheep, and deer, myiasis also occurs in humans, when certain flies are attracted to wounds, where they lay eggs.

The hatched larvae (maggots) then burrow into the skin. Depending on the type of fly, the larvae remain in the skin and cause lesions, or they move through the body and cause damage to various organs. Intestinal myiasis occurs when humans ingest food containing the eggs of larvae.

Six or more generations of fly eggs may hatch in a single summer, resulting in a large number of flies.

Maggots are useful in several ways. As decomposers, like bacteria and fungi, they help to break down rotting biomass and return nutrients to the soil. The rotting flesh of dead animals, after other scavengers are done, is quickly reduced to bone by the action of maggots.


Maggots are also used occasionally in the field of medicine, as are leeches. Maggots are used to eat dead tissue, helping to clean open wounds.

During the Civil War in the United States, and World War I, battlefield physicians saw that soldiers' wounds that were infested with maggots tended to heal better than non-infested wounds. Soon 'maggot therapy' was being used to clean festering and foul-smelling wounds. Maggots not only eat the rotten flesh, they also get rid of harmful bacteria in the wound.

[Sam]

That's absolutely correct Rob. I cannot count the number of maggot riddled bodies I have picked up. We could almost tell at the scene when they had been placed there.  The lifecycle of a decomp fly is about 19 days from egg fly. If she was killed or died on the 16th of June, that would place the maggots at about day 3 to 10 on June 19th thru 29th, depending on they stage they were found at in/on the trash bag.. The car was towed on the 30th. It all fits.

Here's a great explanation  and chart of the decomp fly cycle:

http://www.deathonline.net/decomposition/corpse_fauna/flies/life_cycle.htm

Ok should we be counting back from the date the car was picked up from the impound lot? Sense Cindy is saying the pizza had maggots on it at that time.

[carpe noctem]

[crazybabyborg]

To all you parents out there with children still needing babysitters , I am going to make a suggestion. Do not take someones word that this is a trustworthy person to leave your child with. Take a photo of the person plus make them show you a picture ID. Explain to them this is your most precious possession. Or maybe take a picture of them interacting with your child.

This was not a defense of Casey just a reminder to all.It is a scary damn world we live in today.

This next part is going to gross you out so you may not want to read.Maggots are still being used in the medical field. Not as often as years ago but still on occasion.They are placed on wounds that will not heal and allowed to eat until engorged and then removed. If they have not got down to new healthy tissue then new ones are put on then same process. They are usually counted when put on and counted again as removed and then destroyed as you would not want a hospital full of flies. Gross yes but it works. There are Medical supply places where they are purchased.

Nothing works better to get rid of necrotic tissue and leave any healthy tissue unharmed. It's just impossible for humans to do as good a job with tools when picking out dead tissue is called for. Have you seen the newest fad for a pedicure? Bare feet are submerged in an aquarium with scavenger fish. It's the same principle. Fish nibble away the callouses, and the results are supposedly the best pedicure available anywhere!