Transcripts August ,September 1- 30, 08

[mrskub]

NANCY GRACE
Aired August 8, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news. Police, they are desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl named Caylee after her grandparents report her missing, Caylee not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother.
Headlines tonight: Another jailhouse phone call between Casey Anthony and her family just released. We have that audiotape. And the clock is ticking on key DNA evidence results, including hair, fluid, even dirt taken from mom, Casey`s, car trunk, this as divers are searching lakes and ponds right now near the home. What will they find?

And a search warrant reveals Casey Anthony told police lie after lie after lie, and we`ve got more of them for you tonight. Also, the defense still fighting to get Casey Anthony out of jail. In the last hours, another motion filed with an appellate court to get the young mother`s bond reduced, this as that bombshell search warrant pokes even more holes into Casey`s story, sending the already complicated and confusing timeline even into more disarray.

And the so-called baby-sitter attached to the Sawgrass apartments -- she`s found, but police say she`s not involved and she doesn`t know Casey Anthony or little Caylee. But grandmother, Cindy, claims it is not the Zenaida Gonzalez mom, Casey, claims is connected to her daughter`s disappearance. With Casey (SIC) Anthony set to turn 3 years old tomorrow, still no sign of the little girl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: You people have no idea what we`re going through! You guys don`t give a -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. You don`t care none of this stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

GEORGE ANTHONY: Shut up! I`m talking! I am talking!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Anthony, unbridled and outraged, so unlike the congenial George we are used to talking with, frustrated and angry, upset because he feels helpless.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Leave me alone! Leave me alone!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Cindy Anthony trying to keep the peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is he upset?

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: This is why he`s upset. Back off, OK, please, before I lose my husband right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy spoke with us after George sped off, pleading to give them space, telling us the family is falling apart.

CINDY ANTHONY: You guys see the tough George, the tough Cindy, the tough Lee in front of all you guys. We`re not like that all the time, OK? We`re falling apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one day after Orange County investigators release new details in the case that show more lies from their daughter, Casey, that she never had any phone calls with the mystery baby-sitter and never got a call from Caylee after she disappeared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: Did you ever call the baby- sitter on your cell phone or ever receive a call from the baby-sitter on your cell phone number?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I most definitely did.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Police are desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee Anthony. Moments ago, another jailhouse phone call from Casey Anthony just released. DNA evidence results, including hair and fluid taken from Casey`s car trunk, due back at any time. And a bombshell search warrant pokes even more holes in Casey Anthony`s story. Where is Caylee Anthony?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your sister is being truthful?

LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: To the best of her ability right now, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounding at times like his sister`s defense attorney, Caylee Anthony`s uncle, Lee Anthony, dismissed a recent statement by one Zenaida Gonzalez that she`s not Caylee`s nanny and never heard of the missing girl.

LEE ANTHONY: To try to pinpoint, you know, the idea that this is -- that that fits that person, it`s ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And detectives allege there was no phone call from a Zenaida Gonzalez or anyone at the time Casey said she talked to Caylee. But Lee insisted...

LEE ANTHONY: There`s plenty of calls that are unaccounted for. There are some calls that do not have a caller ID. Frankly, I wouldn`t still be here if I didn`t think that she was trying to cooperate with me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But today, she didn`t. When Casey was asked by a corrections officer if she wanted to meet with her brother, Lee, she declined.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No reason was given for this. It`s the inmate`s right not to conduct a visitation, if they choose to.

CINDY ANTHONY: George is very angry about a lot of stuff, and he`s frustrated because he feels helpless because he can`t do anything to find his granddaughter.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m trying to find my granddaughter. You guys don`t care about this. All you care about is the sensationalism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, you have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY: Sweetheart...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! You understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!

CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: Hey, Case.

CASEY ANTHONY: Hey, I need a favor.

LEE ANTHONY: Sure.

CASEY ANTHONY: Can you get ahold of Jose and have him come and see me as soon as he can, like, today at some point?

LEE ANTHONY: Yes. Let me -- let me give him a call.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, if you could do that, I`d greatly appreciate it, you know, and give everyone my love, obviously. But I only have a minute to talk, so...

LEE ANTHONY: OK. Yes, I`ll do that right now.

CASEY ANTHONY: OK. I appreciate it.

LEE ANTHONY: All right. Love you.

CASEY ANTHONY: Love you, too. Bye.

LEE ANTHONY: Bye.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And that is the brand-new jailhouse conversation just came out, Casey asking for her attorney.

Let`s go straight out to Mark Williams, news director for WNDB news radio talk 1150. Mark, good evening. What`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Good evening, Jean. Well, it is day 24 of the search for missing Caylee Anthony. Thus far, no sign of her whatsoever. Today, dive teams from the Orange County sheriff`s office went to a retention pond in the neighborhood where George and Cindy Anthony live. They strung up a lot of crime scene tape around the lake itself, trying to prevent people from getting in there. And basically, what they did was, they were just out there looking for things. They found a couple of things, like three automobiles that were reported stolen, or believed to be reported stolen but nothing in connection with the missing Caylee Anthony whatsoever.

Also, transcripts released late this afternoon dealing with a phone call made last Saturday between Casey Anthony and her brother, Lee Anthony, Casey, of course, calling from the Orange County jail. In those transcripts released just a short time ago, Casey asked Lee to get ahold of her attorney, Jose Baez, and have him stop by the jail. In another part of the transcript, she said that she loved everyone in the family.

Also, expecting some DNA results back from the FDLE and possibly the FBI any time. We are just waiting for that. And of course, we`re talking about Casey Anthony`s web of lies. They`re not only big here in central Florida, but they`re also big nationwide. One of the biggest parts, of course, is the fact that she said this Zenaida Gonzalez who showed up yesterday and who said doesn`t know the Anthonys whatsoever -- but Casey said that`s who she gave little Caylee to.

Also, she alleged that one of her roommates was a woman by the name of Raquel Ferrell (ph) and worked as a hostess at the TGIFriday`s here in Orlando area. The cops checked it out. The company checked it out. They don`t have any record of this individual whatsoever. There`s lie number one.

Lie number two, of course, Lee Anthony handing over a lot of e-mail, a lot of Casey`s e-mail to investigators. On the string (ph) and on the thread was a gentleman by the name of Thomas Franks (ph) or Tom Franks, who works for -- allegedly worked for Universal Entertainment. They talked about an event, allegedly, that was going to come up. Well, cops e-mailed him. The e-mail bounced back, saying that the e-mail address is invalid.

And of course, Lee Anthony earlier today trying to visit Casey at the Orange County jail. The deal was, he went there early this morning, about 9:00 o`clock. They get a 45-minute visit. And the deal is, Casey refused three times to see Lee. Even the supervisor at the desk called to Casey three times, Would you like to see your brother? She said no three times. And that`s where things stand right now.

CASAREZ: All right, Mark. So much information. We`re going to discuss it all. But let`s go out right now to Natisha Lance, live at the scene in Orlando, Florida, for a vigil tonight. She`s a producer for Nancy Grace. Natisha, what`s happening at that vigil right now?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the it held off just -- the rain held off long enough just until the end, and the Anthonys are actually packing up right now. You can see them to my right over here. But it started about 6:00 PM this evening. A large crowd came from the St. Cloud area. A very beautiful ceremony. There was a lot of emotion. They let off balloons.

And this all sparked by a 12-year-old girl who was inspired by the search for Caylee Anthony. She and her grandmother put this together in just six days. They`ve become very close with the Anthony family. In fact, this little girl calls them Grandpa and Grandma. And they had a vigil today.

Now, the whole town has pitched in. There was food that was donated. The commissioner came and he spoke. The Anthony family spoke, as well, today. George Anthony speaking actually about that outburst that he had this morning, apologizing to the media for that.

And they once again just reiterated over and over again that they want Caylee home and they want everyone to keep them in their prayers.

CASAREZ: Natisha, tomorrow is Caylee`s birthday, 3 years old. Was that mentioned at the vigil tonight?

LANCE: It was. They sang "Happy Birthday" to Caylee while the candles were all lit. Everybody joined hands and sang her a big "Happy Birthday." Now, her birthday is tomorrow. There was some talk previously as to whether or not they were going to have a big birthday celebration, inviting the media. But they decided, as a family, that they`re going to do something very quiet and private just themselves together quietly. However, Cindy Anthony did give us her assurance that if Caylee comes home, as they hope that she does, that she will alert all of us. She has all of our phone numbers.

CASAREZ: And as the vigil continues tonight, also does the diving. I want to go to Tom Shamshak, private investigator out of Boston. Let`s talk about these dives. You know, the police are saying that this is a routine diving exercise. But yet the dives are being done at lakes and ponds about a half a mile from the home, very close. What are they looking for in those dives?

TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, these, Jean, would be normal investigatory measures. They`re coupling training exercises. But the real focus here is on looking for remains associated with this missing girl. What they`d be looking for would be, obviously, skeletal remains, a weapon, trace evidence. And it`s not out of the ordinary for them to be doing this. This has become the focus of a homicide investigation.

CASAREZ: Officially, it is a missing persons investigation, but you`re right, they have to go in all directions at this point. It`s been so long.

I want to go out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. You know, this is a forensic case. It truly is. We`re waiting momentarily for those forensic results to come back. But one thing I want to ask you, Doctor, is that normally, the FDLE does testing forensics. We`re talking about the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. We have found out that the FBI is doing testing on some of this forensic evidence. What is the difference here? What can the FBI do that maybe FDLE cannot?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, first of all, FDLE is a fully accredited laboratory. It`s an excellent laboratory, full capabilities. But the FBI has resources that county and state labs just don`t have. They have sophisticated instrumentation that can provide information that just can`t be accomplished through one of these other laboratories, like the FDLE.

And there is a lot of evidence here to be looked at, not only the evidence that was found in the vehicle, in the trunk, but also the evidence that we`ve been hearing about that`s been collected from the home, clothing and the other items that might provide -- might shed some light on what direction we should be taking.

CASAREZ: Back to Tom Shamshak for a second, private investigator. Since this is such is a huge forensic case at this point, and we know the car was abandoned, the car that Casey was driving -- and last night, Nancy focused on the pants, the pants that her mother inadvertently washed, put in her room. But there were also shoes and boots in that car, on the floorboard, in the back seat, shoes and boots. As an investigator, would you collect them? And what could you find from them?

SHAMSHAK: Absolutely. The footwear would contain possible vegetative matter, soil, blood, oils. And as Dr. Kobilinsky said earlier, the police will follow the evidence, and it will direct this investigation. And I think literally, this investigation is under the microscope.

CASAREZ: Yes, that is right. You know, I covered a case for Court TV -- now In Session -- and because the person was wearing the shoes, there was DNA underneath the shoes that normally would not have been there, of the victim. And that was some of the primary evidence.

Dr. Kobilinsky, I want to ask you very fast, when you`re in a situation with a mother and a daughter, a husband and a wife, obviously, the DNA is going to be all over each one of those people because they lived together. But when you`re talking about underneath shoes, that`s not normally where you would find the DNA of someone, correct?

KOBILINSKY: Well, that`s correct. Finding DNA is only part of the story. It`s got to be explained. Criminalists do reconstructions to try to understand how that DNA got where it got. So you`ll find DNA in the shoe, perhaps under the shoe. All of this has to be reconstructed.

CASAREZ: All right. Let`s go out to our first caller tonight. Mary from Kentucky. Good evening, Mary. Thanks for calling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

CASAREZ: Hi. Your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question was, her actions at the bars, and was she so upset over losing -- or at the death of her daughter that she`s trying to act alive or making herself feel like that she`s still alive?

CASAREZ: That`s a good question. Let`s go to Lillian Glass, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Dr. Glass, let`s look at the timeline here because June 15, June 16, the last time that Caylee was ever seen alive, four days later, Friday, June 20, that night, that`s when those pictures were taken, at the body contest at that nightclub. Is there remorse here? Is it covered up by laughter and partying?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I don`t know if it`s covered up, but it seems very, very strange. When a baby`s missing, the mother doesn`t usually laugh and party. That is very, very strange. And when you look at her whole behavior, it`s been strange. There`s been inappropriate laughter that the police have mentioned. She is not acting as a mother whose baby has been missing. So something is very, very peculiar that`s going on with her.

CASAREZ: Yes. And another thing that`s peculiar is this Zenaida Gonzalez, that she has said from the beginning that she gave her little girl to, but there goes not a Zenaida Gonzalez who says, I know of Casey Alexander (SIC).

I want to go to the attorneys. First of all, Gloria Allred, attorney and victims` rights advocate joining us tonight, Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, and John Burris, defense attorney. Thank you so much to all of the attorneys.

Gloria Allred, someone I respect so much and so happy to be with you tonight, there`s a question that I have. And you can figure everything out, so I want to ask you, all right? And this could lend some credibility to Casey, all right? Listen to this. Casey took investigators to an apartment complex, the Sawgrass apartments. And she said, That`s where I left my little girl. That`s where I left her, with Zenaida Gonzalez. Zenaida Gonzalez, who police have cleared at this point, independently said, I went to that exact apartment complex. I filled out an information card, and I looked at an apartment. It was several days after the last time Caylee was ever seen. Those two independent statements there -- how do you reconcile them?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, that alone would make it very interesting, except for one fact, Jean, and that is, apparently, the police have shown a photograph of that Zenaida Gonzalez to Casey, and she says that`s not the same Zenaida Gonzalez that she left her daughter with.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Everybody has positive thoughts the little girl`s going to come home. You can do a lot more with positive than you can do negative. And right now, there`s a lot of negativity out there. And I`m getting tired and tired to have to justifying things.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Caylee Anthony`s grandfather, George Anthony, stepped out, we saw an outburst that reveals the stress his family is under.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m not talking to anybody. Stay off my property. Stay away from me. Stay away from me right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He yelled at members of the media, who have been documenting his every move since 2-year-old Caylee was reported missing more than three weeks ago.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You people have no idea what we`re going through. You guys don`t give a -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. You don`t care about none of this stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So much emotion. I`m Jean Casarez of In Session, for Nancy Grace tonight. Divers continue to search the lakes and the pond so close to the Alexander (SIC) home. And also, the DNA results. We`re expecting them back at any time, and investigators have told us they are testing a lot of things.

I want to go out to one of our callers, Kelly in Pennsylvania. Good evening, Kelly. Hi. What`s your call (SIC)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I would like to know why Casey is not in general population when she`s in prison. And how much -- why does she have so much phone access?

CASAREZ: OK. Very good question. Let`s go out to the attorneys. Let`s go to former prosecutor Holly Hughes right now. Does she have more phone access than normally someone would?

HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No, it doesn`t appear that she does. She has limited phone access. And she`s not in general population because she`s not in the state prison system, at this point, Jean. She`s in the county jail, which, of course, is a much smaller population. So you have a different cell set-up than you would in a state prison.

The only phone access she has is what`s allowed to everybody. There`s a certain amount of time she can use the phone each day. And she actually references that, Jean, in her calls. (INAUDIBLE) on the tape, she says to her brother, Lee, at point, I`ve only got a few minutes, call Jose, this is important, I need to get this out. So at this point, she`s not receiving any special treatment.

CASAREZ: But John Burris, very quickly, she refused to see her brother today when he went to the jail to talk with her.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that, given all that`s happening to her, she may be becoming very frustrated. There`s no one she talks to that`s being helpful. Plus, her telephone calls are being monitored. And so the fact that they`re being monitored, there`s really no privacy involved. So I can appreciate her not wanting to do any more talking. If I`m her lawyer, I`m advising her not to have any telephone conversations with anyone other than the lawyers.

CASAREZ: I bet you are. To tonight`s "Case Alert," the search for a missing Georgia woman, 31-year-old Melissa Haller. She was last seen Sunday driving to a Marietta park, but she never returned home. Her car was found abandoned and out of gas near Gaffney, South Carolina. According to family, Haller suffers from mental illness and is off of her medication. She is 5-feet-8", 120 pounds and has brown hair. Now, take a look at this. If you have any information, call Cherokee County police, 678-493-4200, or e-mail Melissaismissing@gmail.com.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. We are waiting for forensic results from the FBI. Divers continue to search very close to the home.

Let`s go out to Joyce from Kentucky. Good evening, Joyce.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean.

CASAREZ: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, do you think Casey is holding out on her lies in case they do find little Caylee, that she can say somebody else killed her?

CASAREZ: Well, her lies are very, very interesting.

Very quickly, Nikki Pierce, what has she been referred to in the search warrants as far as a liar?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, there have been a lot of references to her not telling the truth. Several acquaintances, friend of hers, have said that she`s a habitual liar. She lied about her work. She lied about where she last saw Caylee. The list just goes on and on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Hey, Case.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: Hey, I need a favor.

L. ANTHONY: Sure.

C. ANTHONY: Can you get a hold of Jose and have him come and see me as soon as he can, like today, at some point.

L. ANTHONY: Yes. Let me -- let me give him a call.

C. ANTHONY: Yes, if you could do that, I`d greatly appreciate it, you know, and give everyone my love, obviously, but I only have a minute to talk so.

L. ANTHONY: OK. Yes, I`ll do that right now.

C. ANTHONY: OK. I appreciate it.

L. ANTHONY: All right. I love you.

C. ANTHONY: Love you, too. Bye.

L. ANTHONY: Bye.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: You have no idea what we`re going through. You don`t give a -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. You don`t care about any of us.

Shut up, I`m talking. I am talking. I`m trying to find my granddaughter. You guys don`t care about that. All you care about is the sensationalism.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: He`s been angry every day. You just haven`t seen it, OK? You hear something that finally comes to a head, you know, stuff that festers, OK? Anger has been there since day one. He`s been.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At who, though?

CINDY: Anger at the situation. Anger at the fact that Caylee is not home. Angry at a lot of things. Angry that, you know, we are helpless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight. Another little bit of information, Casey Alexander`s mother, Cindy, who you just saw on the screen, she has said that she will take a polygraph examination swearing to the fact that she has heard the name of Zenaida Gonzalez for several years now, that it`s not just a name her daughter fabricated.

We got a caller, Sheila in Wisconsin. Good evening, Sheila.

SHEILA, WISCONSIN RESIDENT: Hi. My question, is -- since we don`t know if it`s the babysitter that looked at the apartment or if it`s Casey and whoever showed the apartment, did they copy the driver`s license since it was in a bad area, isn`t there some kind of surveillance camera or something that we could look at over there?

CASAREZ: Great, great question, because surveillance cameras are very common on apartment complexes.

Let`s go out to Nikki Pierce, reporter with WDBO Radio. Any possibility there is a surveillance camera on the property at the Sawmill Apartments?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: If there`s a surveillance camera it -- or surveillance system of any kind, it hasn`t been discussed. They did say that they took Zenaida Gonzalez`s driver`s license and they looked at it, they wrote down her information, but they didn`t take a copy of it. They said that they showed her an apartment and that was the extent of the involvement.

As I understand it, investigators did take some pictures out to the person who showed the apartment and they did identify the Zenaida Gonzalez that was found by a local television station as the person who came to look at the apartment.

CASAREZ: I have to reiterate, that is a very strange coincidence.

PIERCE: It is.

CASAREZ: . that Zenaida Gonzalez actually went to that apartment complex a few days after Caylee went missing. But yet, just as Gloria Allred said to us, the family of Casey said -- and Casey herself said, oh, no, that`s not the Zenaida Gonzalez that we`ve known for several years.

Let`s go back out to Gloria Allred, attorney, victims right advocate.

Gloria, there are victims in this case. Of course, Caylee, she is our primary victim. But do you see any other victims along the way at this point?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, again, I agree with you, Jean, that Caylee is the primary victim. In a way, Caylee`s grandparents are also victims, perhaps, of their own intentions to try to find Caylee and to try to deal with the media themselves, which I think they`re not really doing successfully.

But, of course, how could they, because they have no training, they have no idea, they really have should have somebody assist them and represent them because right now it`s just getting out of control. Their nerves are raw. They`re expressing their emotions.

Some of the things they`ve said in the past really are not helpful to finding Caylee, not helpful to Casey, even though they intend it to be helpful.

CASAREZ: And that`s exactly what I was thinking because people are saying, gee, this family is coming out before the cameras every single day, but they`re trying to find their granddaughter. There`s a little girl that`s lost. She`s missing. And they believe, maybe very rightfully so, that the only way to find Caylee is for their presence continually on the medium.

Gloria, let me also ask you about Zenaida Gonzalez. She is saying that she can`t go anywhere because people hear her name and that`s it. She can`t get jobs or service.

Could she have a civil claim at all at the end of this?

ALLRED: Well, she might or she might not but let`s assume for purposes of discussion that she did, and that she had it against Casey. Under the heading of "you can`t get blood from a stone," if she sued Casey and was successful, there`s nothing to get. Casey has zero. She doesn`t have any assets. I don`t know that she is going to have any. And if she is convicted, she`s not going to be able to be employed for a long time, if ever.

And so, you know, I don`t think that it`s likely that any case would be pursued or that any attorney would invest any time in pursuing a case against Casey.

CASAREZ: So right, Gloria.

John Burris, defense attorney, I want to talk about -- you know, we do have formal charges here of child neglect. There`s going to be a defense. What is that defense going to be?

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, right now, obviously, the question is whether this is murder or not. I mean, she has the child neglect issue and she`s going to have to deal with that.

I think the more question I see here is this woman`s mental stability. And I think some kind of defense is going to have to be focused around it. It assumes that, one, the child is found and there`s a homicide involved. Then all eyes are going to turn to the mom in terms of how that happened. So you`ve got to have an alibi defense it wasn`t her, she was somewhere else. That`s certainly one thing.

If she doesn`t have an alibi, then she`s going to have to have some kind of defense that goes to mental stability. Everything I`ve heard about suggests that she is not at a particularly stable person. It`s not -- that doesn`t necessarily mean she has a defense around that.

But I think as a defense attorney you got to develop this to see where it goes given how she presents herself so far.

CASAREZ: But here`s the problem. She took investigators to Universal city where she said she worked. She got there. Security said, no, you don`t work there. She said, yes, I do. And so security allowed all of them to go inside and the investigator said take us to your desk.

And she walked forcefully, they said, with purpose to her desk. She finally turned around inside Universal and said, you know what, I don`t work here at all, I just don`t.

That shows, John Burress, a state of mind she knew exactly what she was doing, she was lying and then she decided at the very last minute, you know what, I`m not going to get away with this, I better tell the truth.

Let`s go to.

BURRIS: Yes, it`s true. I mean it`s true that she does -- that doesn`t mean she has a personality -- don`t have a personality disorder because she can carry out certain kinds of activities. I`m just saying given all that we know, you`ve got to look at her mental state.

If she doesn`t have an alibi -- and the alibi is she was somewhere else, she was not involved in it, but if it`s clear she was, then she`s got to deal with the whole question what is her mental state.

And as a defense lawyer you want to go through analytically and determine what is the mental state that`s required for each aspect of the defense and see if there`s something that, obviously, has some impact on that. You don`t really know until you really get into and start looking at her and doing some test results which I would do, I`d have a psychological workup done on her immediately to figure out there`s a personality disorder.

People do not habitually lie just to lie. So there`s something may be going on with her.

CASAREZ: All right. Marlene in Florida, good evening, Marlene, what`s your question?

MARLENE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Good -- I`m sorry, good evening. I got nervous. Do you think she could be pulling a scam and she`s acting this way because she knows her daughter is alive and she got lying and now she - - the lie got bigger and bigger and everything is getting out of hand to maybe -- what do you think?

CASAREZ: Well, I think that`s a great question, Marlene.

Let`s go to Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, who has dealt so much with this. What do you think? Do you think that possibly this little girl is alive and she`s just continually lying so she can`t get caught in her own lie?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Unfortunately, Jean, I don`t think she is alive. I think this little girl was killed probably accidentally in a moment of anger and everything that Casey has been doing since then is to cover it up. Of course, she hasn`t been charged with that. There`s been no body found but if you look at her pattern of behavior -- and Jean, you know this as a lawyer.

There`s a huge difference between being crazy and being nuts. And the situation we see here with Casey is she`s engaging in some pretty nutty behavior. Her daughter is allegedly missing and she`s out there feeling up another woman. You look at these photographs and she`s grabbing another woman`s breast and laughing and having a great time.

This is not the pattern of behavior of a woman who is worried about her daughter. I agree with the caller. I think she`s trying to set up a psych situation and it`s like I used to tell a defense attorney, well, they did this and they -- you know, I smell a psych. I think that`s what she`s going to argue. She`s not going to be successful.

The difference in court is if you know the difference between right and wrong, it`s called the McNaughten rule. If she knew the difference between right and wrong in killing that child, whether it was accidental or not, and covering it up, that`s what`s going to be important, not whether or not she`s behaving inappropriately or she`s doing all these things after the fact to make herself seem like she`s not in the right mind.

You look at these e-mails that are made up apparently. She`s making up e- mails and sending these to herself for people who don`t even exist. That may mean she`s a little nutty. It`s not going to hold up in court as crazy, Jean.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY: The babysitter took her a month ago that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself.

There`s something wrong. I found daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. ANTHONY: I`m not going around and around with you. You know that`s pretty pointless. I`m not going to go through -- not going to put everybody else through the same stuff that you`ve been putting the police and everybody else through the last 24 hours and the stuff you`ve been putting mom through for the last four or five weeks.

I`m done with that. So you can tell me what`s going on. Christina would love to talk to you because she thinks that you will tell her what`s going on, frankly, we`re going to find out something, whatever`s going on it`s going be found out so why not do it now. Save yourself.

C. ANTHONY: There`s nothing to find out. There`s absolutely nothing to find out. And that`s even what I told the detectives.

L. ANTHONY: Well, you know, everything that you`re telling them is a lie.

C. ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was do you think any of this would be happening? No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.

One of the latest things that has come out of all of this is a jail house conversation just released shows Casey is asking for her attorney, asking her brother for her attorney. But yet, when her brother went to the jail today to talk with her, she refused to see her brother.

Let`s go straight out to Natisha Lance, producer for NANCY GRACE, who is live at the scene right now of a vigil taking place in the Orlando area for little Caylee tonight.

What`s the latest, Natisha?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, latest is, Jean, that pretty much everything has cleared away. The Anthonys just drove off. People are still cleaning up a few things. But all in all, it was a pretty successful event. There were nearly 100 people who were here. They were expecting about 150 to 200 and the Anthonys seemed very pleased.

There was a bit of a receiving line at the end where everyone was coming up to them and giving them well wishes, giving them hugs, and just sending their prayers for them.

CASAREZ: Well, that`s wonderful. So I would assume that it would really help them and their emotions because of so -- an influential of so much that is going on with this family.

You know, this is a forensics case and it`s a forensics that have not come back yet from the FBI.

I want to go back to Tom Shamshak, private investigator out of Boston, because one of the forensics that is going to come back, which we don`t know about yet, we haven`t talked about recently, are those gas cans.

Investigators executed a search warrant at the home and took out two gas cans. Now, the family is saying that, yes, Casey broke in, got the gas cans, but she`s done that numerous times because she needed gas and she didn`t have the money.

But, Tom, forensically speaking, what are they going to look for on those gas cans?

TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, the first thing they will be looking would be fingerprints, her fingerprints and possibly somebody else`s fingerprints beyond the family members. Those cans could be.

CASAREZ: But if she had already gotten the cans before and she needed gas, her fingerprints would be on the gas, right?

SHAMSHAK: They would, but they`ll be looking for any kind of chemical composition to indicate possibly that it was used in a fire, if you will.

CASAREZ: All right. Let me ask you this. If the gas cans were possibly put in the trunk -- and we know that the cadaver dogs alerted to something in the trunk -- if those gas cans at all touched a body, would they then take those gas cans now privately with the cadaver dogs to see if there was a hit?

SHAMSHAK: Of course, they would. And I`m sure that they would take them to the lab and they would be, again, put under the microscope and analyzed for whatever forensic value may be there.

Then the gas cans might have been put in the trunk to emit an odor to disguise whatever pungent odor. And it`s preposterous to equate a rotting piece of pizza with the decomposing of a body.

CASAREZ: Right, right. Two different things.

Let`s go out to the great state of Texas, Trisha. Good evening, Trisha.

TRISHA, TEXAS RESIDENT: Good evening. My question is, I was wondering, they said that they were waiting for DNA test results to come back today.

Is that something that they would release over the weekend? Or will they hold off until like the beginning of next week now?

CASAREZ: Very good question. Let`s go out to our forensics scientist Dr. Kobilinsky. When would they release those results once they`re in?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, there`s no reason to hold back. If they have the results now, they would have released it now. Perhaps they`ll have it tomorrow. They will be doing the regular DNA analysis to see if that stain was Caylee or they will be doing mitochondrial DNA analysis to examine the hair.

And let`s also remember that there was some soil sample in the trunk of the car as well that they`re going to be looking at microscopically.

CASAREZ: Let`s talk about that soil sample because you can say why is that important. But the fact is next door neighbors said that Casey had borrowed a shovel. She took that shovel back to the home, only had it for about an hour and then returned it.

But are they going to try to possibly match soil, dirt that was found in the car to dirt in the backyard?

KOBILINSKY: Yes. I think, Jean, that`s probably what they will attempt to do. It`s a very simple, inexpensive instrument that is used in the analysis, a polarizing microscope. And they look for the mineral content. And of course, what they`re going to be doing is always checking a question sample against a known sample and if the mineral content matches, they`ve got a match. Sometimes it helps identify the location that that soil sample came from.

So, again, if they had the information, I don`t see why they would hold back. They would have revealed it already. It could be another day or two. And we`ll hear about the DNA results.

CASAREZ: All right. And it`s also important that stain -- there was a presumptive positive result for that stain. That means they believe that there was human fluid right there.

Tonight, now, CNN "HEROES."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.

VIOLA VAUGHN, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: When a girl reaches the age where she can help in the house, the mother starts keeping this girl at home. That girl begins missing school, missing home work. And she starts to fail. It`s a downward cycle.

My name is Viola Vaughn, I came to Synagogue from Detroit, Michigan. I started a girl`s education and self-sufficiency program.

We take girls who have already failed in school. They learn how to perfect a skill, to produce products for exports.

In the sewing workshops, they make sheets, they make dolls, they make any kind of household linens. Half of the funds goes back to them. The remainder goes into an education program.

Come on, give me a hug. We do this all the time.

They are passing school, they are opening businesses, and I see the success. Right now we already have seven girls in universities.

It`s their program. And they run everything. I`m there just to make sure all the i`s are dotted and the t`s are crossed.

Here I am retired and this is the best job I have ever had in my life.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved. CNN.com/heroes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: And now a look back at the stories making the rest of the headlines this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police desperately searching for a beautiful little girl, Caylee, after her grandparents reported her missing.

CINDY: My granddaughter has been taken. The babysitter stole her.

CASEY: Her name Zenaida Gonzalez.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police are not ruling out that Casey Anthony may have posed as the alleged babysitter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person that you dropped Caylee with doesn`t even exist.

CASEY: They haven`t listened to a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) thing I have said.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: I have got news for you, Casey Anthony, the place have listened. Everything you told them trying to help them find your daughter is a lie. Lie after lie after lie.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Dropping the child Caylee off with Zenaida, a big, fat lie.

ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: Why would you choose my name of all the people in Florida because I have nothing to do with them, I have never met them.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: George Anthony asked his daughter where is Caylee.

G. ANTHONY: Dad, she`s safe. You know I got to believe her that she knows where -- everything is OK.

CINDY: Casey is telling us that Caylee`s life is in danger and I believe that.

CASEY: In my guts she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s close to home.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities describe Casey`s claims as a web of deceit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is the key to this investigation. She knows what she did.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Caylee Anthony? Is the 2-year-old Florida girl alive or dead?

WILLIAMS: And are you ready for this? Caylee is alive, she will be at her 3rd birthday party which is this Saturday.

CINDY: She`s coming home.

GRACE: The family planning to have a birthday party for little Caylee whether she`s there or not, a birthday party is going to go down.

CINDY: I`m not giving up just because her birthday is Saturday.

GRACE: Who knows what the truth is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Tonight, let`s stop -- start to remember Army Staff Sergeant Christopher Hake, just 26 years from Ennis, Oklahoma. He was a graduate of the University of Oklahoma Bible Academy. Hake was on a second tour of duty.

He loved exchanging e-mails with his family, helping his wife renovate their home, soccer, boating, skiing, even music.

Hake leaves behind parents Peter and Denise, two sisters and two brothers.

Christopher Hake, an American hero.

Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you being at home being with us tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, everybody.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/08/ng.01.html

[mrskub]

Larry King Live
Aired July 31, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, exclusive -- is it the most shocking cult ever?
They say incest, orgies and sex games ruined their lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Raising us as kids like that, in that sort of environment, in that abusive environment, was very wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Did unspeakable abuse drive man to murder and suicide?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a need for revenge. It's a need for justice. Because I can't do go on like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Former cult members tell their incredible stories.

But first, the feds are now involved in the Caylee Anthony case. The FBI has questions and they want answers.

Why did this 2-year-old's mother wait a month to report her missing? What did the girl's relatives tell the authorities?

We'll ask Caylee's grandmother. She's here now on LARRY KING LIVE.

Twenty-two-year-old Casey Anthony remains in jail and Caylee's whereabouts remain a mystery. The 2-year-old went missing in June, wasn't reported missing until July 15th. And while police continue to name Casey as a person of interest in Caylee's disappearance, the family has now met with the FBI.

Joining us from Orlando is Cindy Anthony, the mother of Casey Anthony and the grandmother of the missing Caylee and Jose Baez, the defense attorney for Casey Anthony. Casey is being held on charges relating to the disappearance of her child.

You met with the FBI yesterday with your husband and son. Anything you can tell us about that, Cindy?

CINDY ANTHONY, CAYLEE'S GRANDMOTHER, CASEY'S MOM: I don't think so. I think that's information that the FBI and the Orange County Sheriff's Department needs to follow up on. So I can't divulge any information like that.

KING: Were you encouraged by the meeting?

CINDY ANTHONY: I think so. I think it went very well. It's always good to know that's more people looking for Caylee. I mean that's our whole focus is to find Caylee. So if you have more departments looking for her, then there's a better chance of -- a quicker chance of bringing her home safely.

KING: The last time you were here, dear, you said you believed that a babysitter has Caylee. Let's pick up from there.

Is that still what you believe? And, if so, who is this babysitter?

CINDY ANTHONY: Again, the authorities have all that information. You know, we know -- we're pretty sure who has her. We just don't know where they're at and that's the focus.

And, you know, I'm not going impede any investigation by speculating on something that I can't -- you know, I can't say at this point.

KING: Are you therefore positive she's alive?

CINDY ANTHONY: You know, my same gut feeling that I needed to call the authorities on the 15th is my same gut feeling that Caylee is alive. And, you know, I've had a chance since the 15th to actually speak to my daughter on two occasions, look her in the eye. And she's telling the truth. I believe her.

KING: Did the FBI or any authority tell us -- tell you that you can't tell us who this babysitter is or what the involvement of the babysitter, you think, was?

CINDY ANTHONY: And...

KING: That you can't do that?

CINDY ANTHONY: Again, I can't divulge information that they're following up on. I was assured that they're following up on all leads, everything that, you know, has come in and information that we have provided them. They're looking into it. So that's all I can say.

KING: OK.

I know you're upset that people seem to be focused more on your daughter and not the missing granddaughter.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well...

KING: But isn't your daughter causing part of those problems...

CINDY ANTHONY: No... KING: ...by statements she's made contradictory to other statements?

CINDY ANTHONY: Not necessarily. There's been some contradictory statements from a lot of people, from the Orange County Sheriff's Department, from the media, too. So, you know, there's a lot of people who are putting information out there that's not fact and they're putting it on, you know, national TV.

So, you know, she's given them as much information she feels comfortable that she can say without jeopardizing the safety of Caylee and her family.

KING: All right.

Let's take a listen to a call between Casey and her brother Lee which was taped yesterday.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Some of the stuff that we, you know, talked about before -- you know, if there's anything additional or -- you know, at this moment -- I mean I don't really have a lot of my notes with me right now, but -- you know. I know there's, you know, some people that referred to (INAUDIBLE) and you know I'm just curious if anything's changed as far as whom I can trust and all those type of things.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Well, I mean, as far as I'm concerned here, I don't really know on that level, I guess, understandably just being out of contact. But I mean as far as I'm concerned, nothing's really changed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Jose, if they continue to hold your client, what do you make of that?

JOSE BAEZ, ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY, JAILED MOTHER OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD CAYLEE: Well, I think it's unconstitutional. The mere fact that she's held on half a million dollar bail on a third degree felony and two misdemeanors is just -- it's really a tragedy -- a travesty of justice. I don't think this is justice. I think if you, in this country, feel that someone is guilty of something, you charge them with a crime. You don't assume something. You don't label them as a person of interest and ask the courts to do your job for you. And that's what I think is being done here.

KING: There are photos of Casey partying the weekend of June 21st, just days after the alleged time her daughter became missing.

Isn't that rather damaging, Jose?

BAEZ: Well, the facts aren't fully out. And I've -- I've made it a point to lay those facts out in a courtroom when the time comes.

KING: OK...

BAEZ: So all that you're hearing and all that you're seeing really -- really doesn't...

KING: It's presumptive.

BAEZ: Takes -- exactly. It takes these pictures out of context.

KING: By the way, Casey turns three in August. She has brown hair and hazel eyes. She has a birthmark on her left shoulder, is about three feet tall. And for more information, you can go to HelpFindCaylee -- all one word HelpFindCaylee -- C-A-Y-L-E-E -- dot- com.

We'll be right back with more. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back.

And joining us now in New York is Larry Sutton, "People" magazine's staff editor. Caylee Anthony is this week's cover story. The issue is available on newsstands this Friday. I'm holding one right here in my hand right now.

And in Miami is Stacey Honowitz, the assistant Florida state attorney who specializes in child abuse and sex crimes.

Larry, I know you edited this piece. You didn't write it.

But what surprised you the most?

LARRY SUTTON, STAFF EDITOR, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Well, the fact that a child could be missing for that period of time with -- despite all the publicity surrounding it. I mean the cover of the magazine, you've been showing it on your show. It's on a number of cable television shows. And that there is no trace whatsoever -- not a good sign, but it makes us very curious about what happened to her.

KING: Also, what about all the different I saw her, I didn't see her, there's a babysitter, that's her name, no such person exists?

SUTTON: Absolutely.

KING: I worked at Universal. I didn't work at Universal.

SUTTON: I mean she's got a lot of problems. You know, I mean, I don't know if they're psychological problems or what. But clearly, the mother in this case, Casey, has told a number of lies to authorities. I mean she told the police, yes, I work at Universal. So they said OK, hop in the car, we'll drive over there and talk to your coworkers. And the moment they get there, she says, oh, I forgot to tell you, I was fired from there two years ago.

So that was sort of the beginning of a string of lies that she's been telling over and over to the authorities. And it's no wonder they're having a tough time finding the child. They can't get a straight answer out of her.

KING: Stacey, what does a prosecutor do in something like this?

STACEY HONOWITZ, ASSISTANT FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY, SPECIALIZES IN CHILD ABUSE CASES: Well, you sit around and you hope that at one point she decides to tell the truth about what's going on. And you investigate the best you can. I mean these leads have all been false and everybody wants to know why the media is all over this. She hasn't given a straight answer yet.

The bottom line is if this babysitter ever existed, don't you think this babysitter has some family that might have seen her with this child and reported that the babysitter is with this child, this missing person?

So, the fact she's in on the bond that she is for neglect of a child, because that's what it is, after not reporting for 31 days, you're hoping that now that the FBI has become involved, maybe they can get some answers from her so that they can go out and try to find out if this child is, in fact, alive, and wait for the forensics to come back.

That's going be one of the biggest things. The cadaver dogs hit. There's stuff in the lab. And now we have to wait and see what comes back from that.

KING: Cindy, you have to admit, it is curious.

CINDY ANTHONY: It's not curious when you know the facts. You guys are sitting outside of -- outside looking in. And you guys only see snippets of what the media, what the police want you to see.

I'm privileged to all that stuff. And when you get to sort it all out, it makes sense. You guys don't know the conversations we've had with the FBI, with the Orange County Sheriff's Department. You don't know what leads they're working on.

You guys only see what the media wants to put out there. And to judge somebody or to sit as an expert without coming down and talking to these people -- you know, all these photographs that have been put out on my daughter over the last 24 hours were...

(CROSSTALK)

CINDY ANTHONY: ...all but maybe one or two were all prior to like a year or so ago.

KING: But, Cindy, you were the person who called 911.

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I was, because I was concerned at that point. And once, you know, I did not find Caylee where Casey was and that was a red flag. So as soon as I had a red flag, I notified the authorities.

KING: And now...

CINDY ANTHONY: Then...

KING: Now you -- I'll tell you what, let's listen to that 911 call and then...

CINDY ANTHONY: Here we go again. We just saw that a couple of days ago. That's not helping anything.

KING: OK.

Well, let's do it again. If that's what they say, let's hear it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey?

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom, I just saw your nice cameo on TV.

CINDY ANTHONY: Which one?

CASEY ANTHONY: What do you mean, which one?

CINDY ANTHONY: Which one?

I did four different ones and I haven't seen them all. I've only seen one or two so far.

CASEY ANTHONY: You don't know what my involvement is in (INAUDIBLE)?

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey...

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.

CINDY ANTHONY: What?

No, I don't know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You are not telling me where she's at.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don't (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she's at.

Are you kidding me?

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, don't waste your call screaming and hollering at me.

CASEY ANTHONY: Waste my call sitting in the jail?

CINDY ANTHONY: Whose fault is it?

CASEY ANTHONY: Sorry?

CINDY ANTHONY: Whose fault is it you're sitting in the jail? Are you blaming me that you're sitting in the jail?

CASEY ANTHONY: It's not my fault. CINDY ANTHONY: Blame yourself for telling lies.

What do you mean it's not your fault? What do you mean it's not your fault, sweetheart?

If you would have told them the truth and not lied about everything they wouldn't...

CASEY ANTHONY: Do me a favor and just tell me what Tony's number is. I don't want to talk to you right now. Forget it.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: I'm sorry. That was not the 911 call. That was a conversation between you and your daughter.

Now, certainly, you seemed suspicious then, Cindy.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, you know, that was less than 24 hours after the shock of my granddaughter not being where she was supposed to be and then finding out that she had been kidnapped by the babysitter.

I didn't know all the facts at that point. I had not had a chance to start putting things together and start looking at what is out there.

KING: All right.

CINDY ANTHONY: So, again, you know, when I called -- made the three 9/11 tapes, I said whatever I needed to do to get the authorities to come help me.

KING: I got you.

CINDY ANTHONY: So did I fabricate a lie at that point?

I worked on whatever I could to get them out there. So, you know, I'm not a liar. I just stretched the truth a little bit. The car wasn't where it was supposed to be so I said it was stolen because I didn't have any other reason to have the authorities come out to my house.

So that doesn't make me a liar or a murderer...

KING: Jose...

CINDY ANTHONY: ...and I don't think that makes my daughter...

KING: All right.

CINDY ANTHONY: ...a murderer, either, just because she has some mistruths.

KING: Well, we don't even know if there's a murder been.

CINDY ANTHONY: Thank you. KING: Jose, the only purpose of all of this is to find this little girl, right?

BAEZ: Absolutely. And I wish people would focus on that. We have a missing child. And I think it's a -- it's all of our responsibility to look for her. Until they have her, I think all of this speculation is just -- you know, it's futile. And it's totally nonproductive.

KING: What makes, Larry Sutton, this case so curious to you?

SUTTON: Well, it's frustrating, you know?

You've got a mother who lost a child. There's a story that she's telling that a lot of people don't believe. If she wants to change the focus, which she should -- the family should -- to let's find the missing little girl, the only way you're going to do that is to come out and say exactly what happened, what were the details of the last day you saw it and give a story that when the police go to check it, they find that you're telling the truth.

In the case of her story of a babysitter, well, they didn't find anyone by that name living at that apartment. Now, maybe there's something more to it that we don't know. That's quite possible.

KING: OK.

SUTTON: But the bottom line is the truth is going to put the focus back on the little girl.

KING: Stacey, there's nothing a prosecutor can do now, right?

I mean what would you -- you can't charge -- you can -- what would you do with her in court?

HONOWITZ: Well, she's charged now with neglect of a child. She's already gone and I think that they moved for a bond -- I don't remember if they moved for a bond reduction. Oh, it was denied. I'm sorry.

And the prosecutor now is waiting for the police to bring back results, like I said earlier, from the lab, because that seems to be the only concrete thing that right now they can focus on because of the false leads.

And I think that what people find so interesting is never once in any of the phone conversations you ever hear her start out with, "Does anyone know where my daughter is? Has anyone found her? What's going on?"

Two concern for the child is not there.

KING: All right...

HONOWITZ: And I think that's what people are really focusing on.

KING: OK, let's... HONOWITZ: Why doesn't she care where this child is?

KING: Well put.

SUTTON: (INAUDIBLE).

KING: Let's repeat, Caylee, who turns three in August -- pretty soon -- has brown hair and hazel eyes. She has a birthmark on her left shoulder and is about three feet tall. And for more information, go to HelpFindCaylee.com -- HelpFindCaylee.com.

Thanks to our guests.

We certainly hope Caylee is found alive and well.

Is it the most scandalous cult ever?

Our guests, former members, make some shocking claims after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Children of God were founded in 1968 in Southern California by a charismatic Baptist minister called David Berg. To the outside world, the family was a missionary organization spreading their word from Mexico City to Manila. But behind the closed doors of their communes, free love was their theology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: OK. A strange story.

We begin here in Los Angeles with Davida Kelley, a former member of the Children of God. It's now called Family International. She was raised in the household of that sect's now dead leader, David Berg, whom she says sexually abused her.

Also here is Amy Bril, a former member of the Children of God. She was summoned to the household of David Berg as a young child and married to him at age 13.

What -- where do we start here, Davida?

How -- you grew grow up in this?

DAVIDA KELLEY, FORMER MEMBER, CHILDREN OF GOD: Yes.

KING: Born in it?

KELLEY: Uh-huh.

KING: This was in Los Angeles?

KELLEY: This -- it was founded in Huntington Beach during the hippie era. And David Berg was initially like just a possessed fanatical pedophile that founded this entire cult.

KING: And you were raised in it?

KELLEY: Yes.

KING: At what age were you first tampered with?

KELLEY: I -- my first memories of being exposed to any kind of sexual abuse whatsoever was probably as early as age five.

KING: Five?

KELLEY: Yes.

KING: What was the point of the cult, Amy?

What were they saying to attract members?

AMY BRIL, FORMER MEMBER, CHILDREN OF GOD: Initially, it started out pretty innocently, as they were offering freedom from the church, the religious system that people were disillusioned with. The hippies were disillusioned with their families. They were dropouts.

KING: Offer you better things?

BRIL: Yes. And he was offering a way out, an escape.

KING: Did he have many members?

BRIL: It started out small, with his own personal family and it grew. One of those members was my dad, who joined when he was 13 years old in Huntington Beach.

KING: Your dad joined when he was 13?

BRIL: Yes.

KING: How big is it -- how big did it get?

KELLEY: I assume there's probably close to like between 8,000 and 10,000 members currently.

KING: Ten thousand members all over the world?

BRIL: Well, there's been all kinds of people coming through the group for the last 30 years. People have joined, left, joined, left.

KING: Is it easy to leave?

BRIL: Not for those that are born in the group -- into the group.

KING: Do you agree with that, Davida?

KELLEY: It's very difficult -- to leave?

KING: Yes.

KELLEY: Oh, you're allowed to leave at any point, but you have absolutely no support whatsoever when you leave, like because you're not integrated into society...

KING: Because you're out there.

KELLEY: You're not intrigued into society whatsoever. You don't have a formal education. So when you leave, you're just -- you're out there to face the world alone and you have absolutely no options in life. And you don't know where to start or how to begin your life or (INAUDIBLE).

KING: The children of God, now known as Family International, has been on and off the public radar for decades. We did a show on it in 1993. The January 2005 murder of a former member by the leader's son, Ricky Rodriguez, and Ricky's subsequent suicide generated headlines around the world.

Ricky, who had himself fled the group, made a video just days before he killed a woman who had been involved in his childhood molestation and he then took his own life.

We have a portion of it from a British documentary. A word of caution -- some viewers might be upset by this material. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICKY RODRIGUEZ, FORMER MEMBER OF CHILDREN OF GOD: This is Rick and I'm making this video. I want there to be some record, my ideas, just who I was really.

Rick was born into a religious cult.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He would tell me I just want to die, I'm just tired of this life. I'll never be free from this pain and this past.

Rick was planning suicide and murder.

RODRIGUEZ: How can you do that to kids? How can you do that to kids and sleep at night?

Within 48 hours, two people were dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, everything was backward, the way we were going at absolutely everything. And everything that was wrong, we were taught was right. Everything that was really evil and wicked and perverted was done in the name of Jesus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: And Ricky, Davida, he killed, what, the person who was his nanny?

KELLEY: Yes. She was one of many nannies who... KING: Tampered with him.

KELLEY: Yes, when he was a child.

KING: Did you know Ricky, Amy?

BRIL: I did.

KING: Did you know this was coming?

BRIL: Well, I met him about six months before this happened. I was able to actually spend some time with him reuniting. And he was very troubled. And those of us who knew him at the time were deeply concerned about his state. He was very disillusioned with the fact that his mother, a current leader of the family, had never apologized or made amends with those that she had had a hand in abusing.

KING: And he couldn't just leave? He couldn't just leave?

KELLEY: Yes. You're allowed to leave at any time, but with no support whatsoever.

KING: What's...

BRIL: He did leave, in fact.

KELLEY: Yes.

BRIL: He did.

KING: He did?

BRIL: He tried.

KING: Davida, what's the story of Davidito Berg (ph), Davidido (ph) or whatever that is?

KELLEY: Davidito Berg?

KING: Davidito Berg.

What is that?

KELLEY: It's a series about the upbringing, how we raised as children and it's like a volume. But it, you know, just explains our lifestyle and kind of depicts it. And it's like a sort of a catalog or a standard by which the rest of the family members were sort of expected to live by.

KING: It was like your bible?

BRIL: It was a sort of a child care bible put out by Berg and Maria to teach the current members at the time how to train and bring their children up.

KING: And the cult, again, is trying to tell people they're benefiting them by doing all this, is that right?

BRIL: Oh, everything that came out or was published by David Berg or Maria was considered to be the word of God. So, of course, it was considered to be instructional and something that would liberate them and teach them how to live better lives.

KING: Were there orgies, as well, Davida, many men and women together?

KELLEY: Initially, yes, during the first generation that both myself and Armandrita Berg (ph) grew up in. Yes, that was a policy by which everybody was expected to, you know, abide by and participate in.

KING: Where was this done, in homes?

KELLEY: In the communities. In the communities...

KING: In the communities where they lived?

KELLEY: Yes.

KING: You mean they would live at home and then go to this place?

KELLEY: No. This happened in the homes, in their own communities. Like there's many, many communities -- hundreds of communities all around the world. And communities just meant like different families -- several different families all living together communally in a commune.

BRIL: It's a commune -- like a commune or a community of believers who (INAUDIBLE).

KING: We, of course, by the way, invited Family International to take part in tonight's discussion. They did not respond to that request. However, they posted a lengthy statement about all this on their Web site already and we'll get to some of that later.

Some of our guests have relatives that are current members of the Family International.

Are they in danger?

They'll tell us, ahead on LARRY KING LIVE.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (singing)

KELLEY: This is all done in the name of God. You were raised and disciplined to be a Christian. And to find out finally that Jesus had nothing to do with it, it was really the sick mind of a pervert and a pedophile who just used it to manipulate an entire cult to believe in him and support him and his beliefs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That was the infamous late David Berg, right?

Davida Kelley remains with us. So does Amy Brill. We're joined now here in Los Angeles by Juliana Buhring, a former member of the Children of God and co-author of "Not Without My Sister," a first-hand account of the sexual, physical and mental abuse she and her sisters suffered. One of the executive directors of Rise International, which works to protect children from abuse in cults.

And in London, Celeste Jones, a former member of the same cult. She and Juliana are half sisters. They have the same father. She's co-author of that book, "Not Without My Sister," a project worker for NCH. That's a major children's charity in the United Kingdom. She's also a director of Rise International.

Juliana, did you grow up in this cult?

JULIANA BUHRING, FORMER MEMBER, CHILDREN OF GOD: Yes, I was born and raised in the group.

KING: When did you start to think something was wrong?

BUHRING: I don't think I ever truly believed in the doctrine. I always thought that something was wrong. But because we were told that everything that we felt was our wrong or evil was our problem or our fault as opposed to the doctrine's fault. I thought that I was the one that had a problem with it, therefore I was the one that was wrong, not the doctrine.

KING: When were you sexually abused for the first time?

BUHRING: From the time I was born, sexual abuse was all around us. My earliest memories are watching adults in orgies, being paired up with other children my age to being taught sex by adults.

KING: At what age?

BUHRING: My earliest memories are 3-years-old. So it would have been from three on that I remember that.

KING: And the benefit, this was explained to the group, was what?

BUHRING: OK, David Berg came out with a doctrine called the Law of Love where he believed that everything done in love was good and fine. And he reasoned that because children could orgasm, therefore they should be able to participate in sex. So then he started his experiment on Ricky Rodriguez, the son.

KING: Who killed himself.

BUHRING: Who killed himself. And in this manual, the book which he showed, it showed or told adults how to do that. And then adults followed those instructions and it propagated to all the children in the group.

KING: Celeste in London, did you grow up in the same circumstances as your half sister?

CELESTE JONES, FORMER MEMBER, CHILDREN OF GOD: Yes, I did. I grew up with Amy as well. We grew up as children together for many years.

KING: How did you get out?

JONES: It was difficult. I know they're saying you're free to leave at any time, but the psychological barriers are huge. And they keep you in as a virtual prisoner. The fear is the main thing you have to get over. Because all your life you're told that the outside world is scary and bad and that if you left, you would be struck by lightning, you would be killed. There is this mistrust placed from I can remember. And so I think having to break that fear was huge.

KING: Other than maybe adults looking for sex, Celeste, what's the attraction of this group?

JONES: I wish I could say because I was born into it. So it's not like I ever saw any attraction. I was told what to think and what to feel. And I found it difficult after leaving and being an adult myself now thinking, what was the attraction for my parents?

I don't think I can answer that for them. It's very difficult. Actually I remember thinking as a child, and definitely as a teenager, if I was never born into this, I would have never joined. And that was a thought I always had.

KING: Were your parents in the group?

JONES: Yes, they joined in England. My dad was a hippie, he was looking for sort of alternative religion. He ended up taking drugs, he dropped out. Yes, so I think he was ripe pickings for the Children of God when they came over from the states to the U.K.

KING: Cult leader David Berg exhorted his followers to his words, glorify God in the dance. This resulted in video tape performance of nude or scantily clad women, teens and girls.

We have a tape showing a very young Celeste Jones, our guest. Again, some may find this disturbing even though it's been edited well for content. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Were you eventually nude there, Celeste? What's the point of this dance?

JONES: Yes, well, I think they were told us that come -- all the adult women were doing it. And so we watched it first of all. Then do this dance for Davidito, who was David Berg's son. However, it was really for David Berg. And those tapes were circulated to all the communes and all the adults watched them. It's very uncomfortable for me to see that because there's an innocence there, but also I was really exploited. And that was very, very troubling for me. That wasn't the only dance I did. I did nude dances all the way up until I was 12-years-old.

KING: Can't the law do anything about this, Davida?

JONES: I wish they would.

KING: I'm asking, Davida can't they do something?

KELLEY: I'm not sure because for instance, they don't practice it anymore. They do not sexually exploit and abuse their children anymore because they can't. Those of us in the first generation have alerted the authorities and alerted the media and drawn attention to this abuse that happened in our generation. So it doesn't occur anymore. And the statute of limitations might have run out, however the pedophiles that have done this to our generation are still in positions of leadership to this day.

KING: That's terribly damaging.

Celeste, thank you very much.

By the way, as we said, we invited the Family International to respond and here's what they say: "The Family International has a zero tolerance policy in regards to the abuse of minors. The family will immediately expel and excommunicate any adult member deemed guilty of physically or sexually abuse behavior towards children. Family members are advised to conduct themselves in conformance with the laws of the jurisdiction in which they live and to cooperate with the justice system of the land. The family's policy for the protection of minors was adopted in 1986. We regret that prior to the adoption of this policy, cases occurred where minors were exposed to sexually inappropriate behavior between 1978 and 1986."

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You would think that somebody would say in the family, well, something is wrong here, our children are killing themselves. And the only response we get is well, they weren't all suicides, some of them are still alive or they're inflating the numbers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many people need to pass way before something happens? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the consequence of what they've reaped upon us. So I don't know how this story is going to end.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: That clip is from an HBO documentary. And by the way, when I read that disclaimer from the group, that was not sent to us. That was on their Web site today.

Our panel remains with us. And joining us is Miriam Williams Boeri. She's a former member of the Children of God. She joined the sect rather than being born into it. She's author of "Heaven's Harlots: My 15 Years as a Sacred Prostitute in the Children of God." She's an assistant professor of sociology, Kennesaw State University.

Why did you join?

MIRIAM WILLIAMS BOERI, FORMER MEMBER, CHILDREN OF GOD: I was hippie, 18-years-old, 17 when I first heard about them and they were a Christian commune and I think you might have been around at that time. You know, the period of hippies were looking for communes, they were looking to change the world. There was the Vietnam War.

KING: This was this L.A. then?

WILLIAMS BOERI: No, I was actually in New York City.

KING: And there was a commune there, too?

WILLIAMS BOERI: There was.

KING: What did you think of all the sexual activity?

WILLIAMS BOERI: There wasn't that sex when I joined. In fact, we weren't even allowed to kiss or hold hands.

KING: What changed?

WILLIAMS BOERI: Moses David changed. But one thing that I think should be clear is that there were concentric circles around the leaders. And the further away you were from those leaders, the less you participated in the sex. All of us had some sexual activities that were going on that would not be considered normal in mainstream society. But the further you're away from the leaders, the more that you could choose for your children what they would do and what they would not do.

KING: How long did you remain in the sect?

WILLIAMS BOERI: I left in 1981 for the first time. And then my husband, who had been in the group, wanted to go back. But we always remained again, these concentric circles, outside the furthest circle. We were pretty much on our own, pretty much. And then I left again when people came from, I was in Europe that time. And people came from India, where some of these girls lived. And as soon as this family came from India and they lived with us, I saw immediately that the father was probably abusing his child and I left immediately after that.

KING: Juliana, you were saying that during the break when we read their statement that it's not true. You think they're still practicing?

BUHRING: I think that because all the pedophiles from that era are still in the group and because the group refuses to hand them over to the law or to prosecute them, I believe that pedophilia is a sickness. And it's not something that you do one day and the next you don't. It will come back sooner or later eventually.

And these people are still protected within the group. The group does not have a firm child protection policy. And in their charter, they state that members want to go to the police, they have to leave the group to do so. Which means that most people, if there is a crime committed, I've heard of many cases all the way up into the early 2000s where kids are still suffer some form of abuse, but they deal with it internally like the Mafia, like the Catholic Church until they began to be prosecuted.

KING: Amy, do you agree?

BRILL: I actually do agree that who knows what goes on in each individual community. I think there's a big range, a difference between the communities.

KING: Do you keep in touch with old friends in the group?

BRILL: I used to. Less and less now.

KING: You don't miss it, I gather.

BRILL: I do not miss it, absolutely not.

KING: Amy, we thank you and Juliana for being with us. Davida remains and so does Miriam and we'll have more with when we come back. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Welcome back. Before we get back to our topic, let's check in with Wolf Blitzer sitting in tonight for Anderson Cooper. He'll host "A.C. 360." How nice to see you when it's dark out.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Nice to see you, Larry. Thanks very much.

Coming up right at the top of the hour, finger pointing and pushing back. John McCain is accusing Barack Obama of playing the race card. Barack Obama says John McCain is trying to scare voters. You're going to hear for yourself what's going on and you decide.

And the Muslim myth. Barack Obama has repeatedly said he's a Christian, so why are there still parts of America where large numbers of people don't believe him? And a mother's plea, bring my little girl home. Heart-wrenching new developments in the strange disappearance of Ray Starra Boss (ph) and her shadowy father. All that and large chunks of sound from the two presidential candidates, sharing their thoughts on what America needs to do about the energy crisis. All coming up on "360," right at the top of the hour. Larry, back to you.

KING: Thanks, Wolf. That's at 10:00 Eastern, 7:00 Pacific, hosted tonight by my friend, Wolf Blitzer.

Joining us now is Rachel Bernstein, the psychotherapist and expert on cults. She runs a support group for former cult members. And Stephen Kent, professor of sociology, University of Alberta, writing a book on child sexual abuse within the Children of God.

Rachel, what's your read on what we've heard?

RACHEL BERNSTEIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it's been very interesting and unfortunately a very sad story. What you have people that have been damaged, really terribly hurt by being exploited, by being in a situation that was supposed to be a spiritual community but was instead a place of great perversion.

KING: Why do people do this to people?

BERNSTEIN: Sometimes it's because they truly believe that this is something that's useful for them, necessary for them. And other times, it's just because they like the power that they are able to develop over these people. And they like to have the people show them how much they are devoted by seeing how much they are willing to do for them.

KING: They deny they are a cult, Stephen. What is a cult?

STEPHEN KENT, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF ALBERTA: The definition of a cult varies. Some people just say it's a group that holds unusual beliefs. A lot of people however talk about cults in the context of harm. A cult is a group with an intense belief system that is often harmful to its own members and also members outside of that particular group.

KING: Harmful according to society, but they don't think it's harmful?

KENT: They probably don't. But when you talk to people who have been in and then come out, a lot of people's eyes get open about what happened.

KING: What are you doing now, Davida? Are you married?

KELLEY: No, I'm self-employed.

KING: Are you working?

KELLEY: I'm a fetish model.

KING: You're a what?

KELLEY: I'm a fetish model.

KING: What is that?

KELLEY: It's part of the adult entertainment industry.

KING: Oh, you appeal to --

KELLEY: Yes. Honestly, I didn't have much options when I left.

KING: You appeal to prurient interests.

KELLEY: Yes. When you leave the cult, you have a basic education and you're not integrated into society. So when you leave, your options are very slim, which is why so many children have committed suicide because they don't have a college education. They don't have anywhere to turn to and they don't have any options in life.

KING: Well said. What are you doing, Maria?

WILLIAMS BOERI: When I left the family, I went back to college as a freshman with four kids. I was 38-years-old and I stayed in school until I got my Ph.D.

KING: And you're an assistant professor. Are you married now?

WILLIAMS BOERI: I am married to someone that was not in the group.

KING: Children?

WILLIAMS BOERI: I have five children that were born in the group and they are all out with me.

KING: What is post group like, Rachel?

BERNSTEIN: Post group is when people really are depending on their experiences, are really suffering a lot of after effects.

KING: Do you need a rehab?

BERNSTEIN: Very often it helps to have a good therapist and a good support system, either through your family or through other former members who really understand the very singular and individual kind of experience you've had in a group like this.

KING: Biggest danger in a group, Stephen?

KENT: Biggest danger has to do with the kinds of harm that people can inflict upon themselves and upon their loved ones.

KING: As the boy who killed himself?

KENT: Sure. And with this group, there have been a lot of post- group suicides or even some suicides of young people while they were still in the group. And the issue that Davida brought up about what these people do when they leave, there are countless stories about people leaving this group and at least having to go through some forms of the sex trade in order to get out, because they have little skills and they grew up in a highly eroticized environment.

KING: Does it depend, Rachel, on a charismatic leader?

BERNSTEIN: If a group is dangerous in this way, yes. The leader has to be someone people want to listen to and people feel the need to please. And so if a leader is charismatic in that way, he can get away with much more than he should.

KING: Are the former members religious in any way today? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAMBI GADDIST, CNN HERO: Here in South Carolina, HIV is a problem, particularly among African-Americans. After 27 years of AIDS, we are still combating a mentality of fear and shame. I'm Bambi Gaddist and I'm fighting to stop the spread of HIV-AIDS in South Carolina. Our organization has the only HIV testing mobile unit in the state. Our goal is to be in the community, testing at a nightclub. We're there when young folks are out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was my very first time, very, very first time. I'm glad I did it. She takes time to explain things, actually break it down.

GADDIST: Have you been tested yet?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did, I did.

GADDIST: And you're waiting on your results?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

GADDIST: You already got them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

GADDIST: OK, I sure appreciate you coming out. When it's my time, I want my obituary to say that I made a difference for someone and that I saved somebody's life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: July is the last month to nominate someone you know as a CNN hero for 2008. Go to CNN.com/heroes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Davida, are you a member of my religion? Are you religious? KELLEY: Oh, I'm absolutely religious. Yes, I still believe in God. I still am saved, I still believe in Jesus. And I don't blame Jesus or God for any of this. I'm agnostic, though.

KING: What about you, Miriam?

WILLIAMS BOERI: Not at all.

KING: Not at all religious. You had the idea for a foundation?

WILLIAMS BOERI: I think that one reason I'm here is in any way that I can to -- Juliana has a Web site number. If people could donate to a foundation and children that are coming out or adult children that are coming out can either get some mental help, mental health service help and also go back to college. I think all of these children could get their GEDs and go back to college. America is wonderful because everybody can get an education. That's why I came back here and I got it.

KING: Do you know Juliana's Web site?

KELLEY: Isn't it Rise International?

KING: Rise International.

KELLEY: CIC.org.

KING: CIC.org.

KELLEY: CIC.

KING: CIC.org. Do you think this can help?

WILLIAMS BOERI: I think so. Anyone that wants to make a donation, Juliana will make sure that it goes to the right children that are coming out.

KELLEY: For that matter, just for any children to know that there's lots of children probably in the cult that would like to leave but don't have any options or don't know where to turn or who they can go to. And if anybody out there is a relative of any members that have family in any kind of cult whatsoever, please reach out to them and like make sure that they know that you can --

KING: You've had two sisters who left as well?

KELLEY: Yes.

KING: How are they doing?

KELLEY: Well one for instance is in Africa right now and she's trying to come back to the U.S. but she can't even afford her own plane ticket. And I can't afford to support her. I wish that we knew - could ask our relatives.

KING: What's the other one doing? KELLEY: The other one lives in Houston, Texas. She's a model. And then I have my two younger sisters that are still in the family, in the Children of God.

KING: You were saying during the break that this cult is enormous.

KENT: Well, in the 1980s, it may have been the largest globalized pedophile organization in the world. There are some other pedophile religious groups, like the Devdasi Temple Prostitutes in India that have larger numbers. But child abuse, child sexual abuse was the central doctrine in this group's theology and the group was global.

KING: Any country that does not have any cults?

BERNSTEIN: I think they exist everywhere. I think the fact that cults exist is because there is something about human nature that allows for this to happen. And so --

KELLEY: Which is why relatives that have any members in cults need to reach out to them and check in on them and make sure that they know if they want to leave, that they have an option. Because a lot of these children don't know that they have any options. They haven't been exposed to society. So they have nowhere to go and nowhere to turn.

KING: You're raised trapped?

KELLEY: Yes.

BERNSTEIN: Raised trapped.

KING: You were a prisoner?

BERNSTEIN: Right and also in a system like this, your family who was supposed to be protecting you typically are the ones who are letting the monsters come in at night.

KENT: And one of the big issues now is as these monsters hit 50, 60, 70-years-old, they're going to go back to their second generation kids who have left and made it in the world wanting help. Because they have no pension system, they have no retirement, they have no Social Security benefits. It's a real crisis.

KING: We're almost out of time. Are these people bright?

KENT: Oh, yes, very smart people. Many of the ones that I've talked to, both current and former members. I mean, there's a range of course, in any group.

KING: But it's not that this is appealing to the lowest common denominator?

KENT: Oh, no, very talented, very smart people. KING: I'm very impressed and we have to do more on this, thank you, thank you all. Juliana's organization by the way, can be reached as riseinternational.org, riseinternational.org.

You still have time to cast your quick vote. Do you know anyone who has been in a cult? Go to CNN.com/larryking and weigh in.

We've got a lot of great interactive features there, by the way. You can download our ringtones or our new podcast, John McCain. And click on "About Last Night" for the last word on the show you just saw.

Tomorrow, women behind bars. That's LARRY KING LIVE Friday.

Time now for Wolf Blitzer, sitting in for Anderson Cooper, the host of "A.C. 360."

Wolf, take it away.

[mrskub]

CNN LARRY KING LIVE
Aired July 29, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, court fight over those jailhouse tapes from that missing toddler mystery. What doesn't Caylee Anthony's mom want us to hear as she sits behind bars?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: In my gut, she's still OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: Her own mother's actions helped put her there and for reporting that the 2-year-old disappeared.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My granddaughter has been taken, she has been missing for a month.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: What's going on? I'll ask her. She's here.

Plus cell phones and cancer. Is there a link? Are children in immediate danger? A new warning should have everybody asking, does something I use every day kill me? Put down your cell phones now and find out, next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening.

Where is little Caylee Anthony? And what does her now-jailed mother know about her fate?

The 2-year-old went missing in mid-June. She was reported missing on July 15th, that's a day (sic) later. Her mother Casey (sic) then calls in. She has her arrested on charges of child neglect, making false official statements, obstructing a criminal investigation. Police have now named Casey Anthony, the mother, as a person of interest in Caylee's disappearance.

We welcome the grandmother, Cindy Anthony. She is with us in Orlando, Florida.

Do you have any thoughts, Cindy, as to what happened to your granddaughter? CINDY ANTHONY: My thoughts are a lot clearer now than they were that night that I made three 911 calls. I'm very confident that -- I'm very confident that Casey will be exonerated of all charges once we find Caylee, so that's why our focus is on trying to find our granddaughter.

KING: So you feel she's definitely alive?

CINDY ANTHONY: I believe she is alive when Casey handed her off to the baby-sitter. At this point, I just hope to god that no one has done anything to her.

KING: Little explaining, Casey and Caylee were both living with you, right?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, Casey has always lived at home. Caylee was born in 2005 and has lived with us ever since.

KING: And the father, I understand, was killed?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, he's never been part of her life.

KING: But he was killed in an automobile accident?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, but he was never a part of her life before that.

KING: And he wasn't supporting her?

CINDY ANTHONY: No, he was never even on the birth certificate. That was a mutual thing between Casey and the father.

KING: Why did you turn daughter in?

CINDY ANTHONY: Little background, Casey had gone on an extended trip, kind of trying to figure out -- she's 22. We were talking about when it might be the right time for her and Caylee to move out. And her trip just kept getting extended and extended, which was really not a red flag itself, I mean, the trip itself. There would be a few days at a time that she would go and stay with friends. She went from a couple different friends, and I never got a chance to speak with Caylee during that time.

I would ask Casey periodically if she could put Caylee on the phone or whatever, and there was always a very reasonable excuse. Either she was napping or she was already in bed. By the time I get home from work sometimes in the evening, and I would be able to speak to my daughter, it would be time for Caylee to be napping or going to bed.

KING: I got you. So she finally comes home?

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, what happened was, to set the background right, she had told me that she had been in Jacksonville for the last week and a half. We had gotten a notice in the mail that we had a registered letter. We found the registered letter a few days before, but it was the weekend, so we had to go down and get it. And when we got it, my husband found out it was from a tow truck or a towing company.

And when we actually went down and found out that the car that she, you know, uses was not in Jacksonville, it was in Orlando and we found out the date, that was a huge red flag.

So I started calling her friends and I found one friend that had just seen her a few hours prior, and she took me to where Casey was at, and when I got there, there was no Caylee. So I started to feel like, what's going on? She had told me that she was at the sitter's. So we took her friend home. Her friend and her and I drove around for a while. It was later in the evening, about 7:00, 7:30. That's typically when we start getting Caylee down for a nap and Casey's response was that Caylee was probably already getting ready for bed and didn't want to disrupt her.

But being the selfish grandma that I am, I wanted to see my granddaughter. So we drove around a bit. And I tried to convince her to take me to her, and I just started getting an eerie feeling that something wasn't right in Casey's voice. I know my daughter pretty well.

KING: So you decided -- in the interest of time, let's listen to your 911 call.

CINDY ANTHONY: Make sure you do the first one first, because there were three, actually.

KING: We'll do the first one. Let's listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DISPATCH: 911, what's your emergency?

CINDY ANTHONY: I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff's not here. I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today. But I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car.

DISPATCHER: Is your daughter there?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.

DISPATCHER: Can I speak with her?

CASEY ANTHONY: Hello.

DISPATCHER: Hello.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes?

DISPATCHER: Hi. What can you -- can you tell me what's going on a little bit?

CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter's been missing for the last 31 days.

DISPATCHER: And you know who has her?

CASEY ANTHONY: I know who has her. I've tried to contact her. I actually received a phone call today -- now from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter for about a moment, about a minute.

DISPATCHER: Why are you calling now? Why didn't you call 31 days ago?

CASEY ANTHONY: I've been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, which was stupid.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: That was the third call. We didn't have the first two.

Cindy, are you now saying you believe your daughter -- you want her to come out, and you believe that we're going to find Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY: I believe we're going to find Caylee if the investigation goes the right way, if the media will not just take their own spins on things.

I was in shock that first night and there's a lot of things -- the first phone call, there was no panic in my voice. The second phone call, a little frustrated. The third phone call, by the time my daughter had spoken to my son and actually said that Caylee had been kidnapped, I walked in on that conversation. So the police were going to be taking their time to get to the house, so I said whatever it was to get them out there right then and there.

KING: Cindy will be coming back with us. We want to talk to a couple of people about this. Casey Anthony's attorney is here as well. He'll join us after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Our grandmother friend Cindy will be coming back.

But let's meet Jose Baez, the defense attorney for Casey Anthony. Casey is being held on charges related to the disappearance of her 2- year-old daughter, Caylee.

In Miami is our friend Stacey Honowitz, the assistant Florida state attorney who specializes in child abuse and sex crimes.

And in Madison Heights, Michigan, Dr. Daniel Spitz, forensic expert, chief medical examiner for Macomb County, Michigan.

A judge today denied to block media access to Casey's phone calls and visitation conversations in jail. Everything was released.

Let's just listen for a moment to Casey talking with her brother, Lee.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: You think Caylee's OK right now?

CASEY ANTHONY: My gut feeling? As mom asked me yesterday and even Jose asked me last night, the psychologist asked me this morning that I meet with through the court -- in my gut, she's still OK. And it still feels like she's close to home.

L. ANTHONY: OK.

CASEY ANTHONY: So that's still my best feeling at the moment.

Again, if that changes, obviously I'm going to reach out and say something immediately. But I know mom will understand this better than anyone that there's that type of bond that you have with your kid.

L. ANTHONY: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: And it's -- unexplainable, absolutely.

L. ANTHONY: Did you speak with Caylee over the phone at any time?

CASEY ANTHONY: I did one time, yes, and that was actually the day that mom called the police.

L. ANTHONY: OK. Do you remember what time you spoke to her?

CASEY ANTHONY: Around noon, it was through a private call.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KING: Jose Baez, you're Casey's attorney, what's your read on this case?

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY'S ATTORNEY: Well, my read on this is she is basically being prosecuted for a homicide without any evidence. And the presumption of innocence has flown out the window, and that really scares me.

KING: Stacey Honowitz, what do you read on the prosecution's case, if any?

STACEY HONOWITZ, ASSISTANT FLORIDA STATE ATTORNEY: Well first of all, anybody looking at this case, it doesn't take a prosecutor to realize that there's something not right. Thirty-one days go by and this woman does not report that her child is missing, and there's no panic in her voice when she's talking to anyone in a jail or even when she's sitting in a courtroom.

So certainly she's going to be a person of interest to the police because she's the only person who knows where this child might be. And the fact that she's not cooperating certainly brings to mind that something is not right. So all of these feelings of the presumption of innocence, these are things that she's bringing on herself by not cooperating, by not being in a panic, by not trying to figure out who has her child.

BAEZ: I think that's inaccurate.

KING: Dr. Spitz -- hold on, Jose, just one thing for Dr. Spitz.

Dr. Spitz, there were reports of the smell of a decomposing body in the trunk of that car. The answer was that it was a pizza or something. Is there a similarity in those two smells?

DR. DANIEL SPITZ, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER, MACOMB COUNTY: No, not really. That's very concerning to me. The smell of decomposition is very distinct. The fact that it was appreciated by this homicide detective and now child abuse detective, that's very concerning to me, and I think that as that evidence gets evaluated, you may in fact be able to prove this was the remains of a human body.

KING: Jose, is this something that -- is the prosecution saying, we don't have a body, but it sort of looks like a duck, acts like a duck, walks like a duck, it might be a duck.

BAEZ: You have to bear in mind this is the same dog that smelled something in the backyard, was inconsistent, so they had to bring in another dog and they dug there for two days and found nothing. At best, this dog is one for two, at worst it's zero for two. And quite frankly, I don't like those odds.

KING: What do you think happened to the baby?

BAEZ: Well, we believe this child has been kidnapped. And what's really disappointing is that people aren't searching for her as well as they should be.

We want to get the word out that Caylee is still missing. We want to do everything we can to facilitate the search. The prosecution can wait. If there's a missing child out there, we need to do every single thing we can to find this little girl and not put obstacles in front of that. And that's a problem.

What was said earlier about her not cooperating with police, that's clearly a misstatement. What happened was she spoke with police that night, they decided to charge her and start a criminal proceeding. Since then, I have opened myself up and the line of communications with law enforcement and I told them, if you have any leads that you want to bounce off my client, I will be happy to bounce them off her and give you access. The fact that she's not cooperating is just a misstatement.

KING: Stacey, does the 31 days, is that what bothers you the most?

HONOWITZ: I mean there's a number of things. If you look back into the investigation and everything that's been released so far, there's been such inconsistent statements. And his client in and of herself has given false leads because everything that they have tried to go down, every path that they have tried to find something out has been a lie.

She lied about working. She lied about the baby-sitter. She lied about leaving the baby-sitter. So all these things - when you say cooperating, the idea of cooperating is telling the truth. And in this case, all these leads by her have been false. So that's not just the 31 days. That's the worst of it. I think any parent would go crazy.

KING: Dr. Spitz, a mysterious stain apparently was found in the trunk. Police are awaiting for results. What might you read into that?

SPITZ: Well, I'll tell you. While Stacey's comments about all the misstatements are very concerning, it's going to be the forensic evidence which is going to crack this case open. And while the cadaver dog may not have been exact in the dog's approach, the dog certainly has led investigators to certain things that need to be further evaluated. The decomposition smell came from something. The stain that you mentioned is forensic evidence. So while that gets evaluated, I think we're going to have some results, and I think we're going to have much more information to go on.

It's very concerning the length of time this child has been missing. And the longer this goes, the more likely, we're dealing with a homicide investigation.

KING: Let's listen to more of a conversation Casey had with her brother Lee, released by the police. Watch.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

L. ANTHONY: Is there anything specifically -- I know you're going to meet with, you know the investigators and everything, you know -- is there anything specifically, the details, that you want to clarify for me now so when I'm following up on my own leads and my own information, putting the stuff together, you know then I can start working on it now?

CASEY ANTHONY: At the moment there's nothing specific or nothing that you know should probably be said here. Again, I'll put something together before I see Jose or when I see Jose and you know make sure that I have something also to put out.

L. ANTHONY: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: So that way you can get whatever you like.

L. ANTHONY: OK. And just remember when you get to talk to those guys, you know, you mentioned that you're going to have your prep and everything with Jose. But remember truth don't hurt.

CASEY ANTHONY: I know but there are some things that I have told them that were misconstrued and not used to their benefit. I gave them the same resources that I gave you and you found out a hundred more things than they did. And they were given the same information. So it's just about the approach I guess and using the resources to their full extent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Jose, do you believe this child is alive?

BAEZ: Yes, I do. I really do, and I think if we concentrate on looking for her, that's exactly what we're going to do, we're going to find her.

I've said a million times, my case looks a whole lot better if we find Caylee. And that's what I want to try to focus on. We've done everything we possibly can to try and assist. There's a lot being said of her cooperation, but I have to tell you, I've taken an oath to protect my client and her interests.

If you want to drop it anywhere, drop it right here. I'm going to defend my client and protect her from what's going on in the system, and we certainly want to help with the cooperation.

KING: Stacey, do you believe law enforcement is looking for the child?

HONOWITZ: Well, I can't imagine why they wouldn't be. If they get a report that a child is missing, you know, within a couple hours they issue an Amber Alert under normal circumstances. So in this case, you heard the police officer on the tape say to her, why did you wait 31 days to report this? So you would hope, and I'm sure that they are actively investigating and trying to find this child.

KING: Dr. Spitz, you're saying forensics will answer this?

SPITZ: I truly hope so. The fact that it's been 31 days puts law enforcement in a tough spot, but the bottom line is if this is a homicide investigation, it is going to be the forensics. Even without a body, the forensics in that car may in fact tell us what happened.

KING: We'll have Cindy Anthony come back and comment on what we've just heard, right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Few more things, back with Cindy Anthony.

From what you heard, Cindy, do you -- the key here is -- when she was gone for 31 days, didn't you think that was a little nuts?

CINDY ANTHONY: No, not really. I think what's nuts is for people to speculate on things that they don't know the whole truth.

I want to ask the question to the gentleman that doesn't think that pizza can cause an odor of that magnitude. I want him tonight to put a piece of pizza in the trunk, put it in the Florida hot sun for 19 days and then open his trunk and tell me how bad it smells when there's maggots in there. The sheriff's department was there that night with at least seven or eight deputies. That car we had aired out. They walked by it all night long. They left it in my driveway for two full days before they decided to take it down to where they look at things, and then they waited until the night before he bond hearing to even start looking at it. So if that was --

KING: Cindy --

CINDY ANTHONY: -- let me ask you one thing. If that was truly their key evidence in something, then why didn't they investigate that first thing?

KING: You want to answer it, doctor?

SPITZ: Sure. There's no question that the smell of a decomposing body is markedly different than the smell of some rotting food matter.

But, you know, that's not the real evidence. That's just sort of gets you going in that direction. What needs to be done is that evidence in the trunk needs to be evaluated, because with DNA testing, it can clearly be separated whether that was any type of food matter or the tissues or decomposing fluids that you would get with a body that had been in the trunk for any length of time.

CINDY ANTHONY: I was told today -- can I ask a question? I was told today, sir, that sweat in that car could also be construed as decomposition. Is that true?

SPITZ: No, that's entirely different. Sweat or those kinds of body fluids are not the same thing as decomposing tissue or the decompositional fluid that is generated from a body.

So again, it all is going to go back to the collection of that evidence, the analysis of that evidence. And when it comes back that that in fact shows that a body was in that trunk, then there's going to be some explaining that needs to be done. If in fact that's not the case, then maybe it will turn out differently.

KING: Cindy, when your daughter gave the baby to the baby- sitter, what was the baby-sitter supposed to do with it? What happened after that?

CINDY ANTHONY: The same thing that she's always done, is let her pick her back up and take her.

KING: And when she went to pick her back up, what happened?

CINDY ANTHONY: They weren't there. They weren't there.

KING: So is it the suspicion that the baby-sitter kidnapped her?

CINDY ANTHONY: That's not suspicion. That's what Casey has maintained all along.

KING: Did you get a ransom note? CINDY ANTHONY: No, it's not that type of kidnapping, sir, that this person loves this girl and wants to have her as her own. That happens all the time. That happened not too long ago. In Orlando, Florida, someone stole the baby right out of a hospital.

KING: So she's a runaway with this child?

CINDY ANTHONY: I believe so.

KING: And you're saying the authorities are not looking for that baby-sitter and the child?

CINDY ANTHONY: Well let me tell you why I say that. It's because they told us there was one person in central Florida with that name. In fact there's nine in central Florida. I just got a phone call on my way here that there's four in Fort Lauderdale and my daughter said that this girl had a Fort Lauderdale number and has connections in Fort Lauderdale and New York, and New Jersey.

In every state, there's people by this name. They think she's smart enough to make up this person for the last two and a half years, but dumb enough to park a car where in plain sight that her mother would drive by twice a day and see and leave her purse in the front seat of the car and not drive it into some lake.

So, my daughter is not a murder. My granddaughter is missing. My granddaughter is missing.

KING: Well will do more on this. Thank you, Cindy, and thank you, panel.

And we'll be right back. And when we come back - hey, you got a call phone? You want to know this. Is it putting your children and you at risk for cancer? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Does cell phone use increase your risk of cancer? It's a hot-button debate. The latest development, a memo from Dr. Ronald Herberman, director of the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, offering precautionary advice on cell phone use to his faculty and his staff.

We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE. Dr. Devra Davis, director of the Center for Environmental Oncology at the University of Pittsburgh's Cancer Institute. Dr. Keith Black, chairman of the Department of Neurosurgery and director of the Maxine Dunitz Neurosurgical Institute in Cedars-Sinai in L.A. And also from L.A., Dr. Paul Song, radiation oncologist.

Dr. Davis has this new book, "The Secret History of the War on Cancer." Dr. Davis, what do you maybe of Dr. Herberman's memo? It should frighten everybody.

DR. DEVRA DAVIS, DIRECTOR, CENTER ENVIRONMENTAL ONCOLOGY: Well, we don't want to frighten people. We want people to take precautions. That's the reason he wrote the memo.

KING: Precautions being?

DAVIS: Well, to use an earpiece and to not keep your phone on, on your body all the time and to make sure that children are not using cell phones.

KING: At all?

DAVIS: No, no, young children particularly need to be careful and particularly toddlers, who now have cell phones that they use to play with. This is a really bad idea.

KING: What led Dr. Herberman to this finding?

DAVIS: Well, he looked at the literature and was aware of the growing concerns that we do not have enough information, nor enough time to be sure that cell phones are safe. There's reason for concern that they may be harmful, so we need to take precautions rather than waiting to experiment on the rest of us.

KING: Dr. Black, meaning, if they are harmful, we don't know why they are harmful, right?

DR. KEITH BLACK, CHAIRMAN, DEPT. OF NEUROSURGERY, CEDARS-SINAI MEDICAL CENTER: We know that microwave radiation can damage cells, and there's been some experimental evidence to suggest there are harmful effects. As Dr. Davis said, at this point, they're looking at the relationship between cell phone use and brain cancer. We have conflicting studies. Some studies, which are not absolutely perfect, showed no correlation. We also have some studies that tend to suggest a correlation.

One of the recent studies from Sweden show that if you use cell phones an hour a day for ten years, your risk may be increased as much as two-fold. The real concern is analogous to this: we've only been using cell phones for a short period. Most of the studies are for a short period of time. So if you have a 14-year-old who smokes cigarettes, we don't expect that 14-year-old to develop lung cancer at 24. We expect them to develop lung cancer at 54. If you have an eight-year-old using a cell phone, we don't expect them to do you feel lung cancer at 18, but at 48.

What happens after 20, 30, 40 years of use, that's the concern and we don't have the answer to that.

KING: If we have -- we have millions of cell phones in use now, right?

BLACK: That's correct.

KING: Has there been an increase in brain cancer?

BLACK: Well, again we know that if you look at studies, there have been various explanations to try to account for the increase in brain cancer. KING: Has there been an increase?

BLACK: There's been an increase in reported incidents. That may be related to better MRI scans or more frequent use of CT scans, but we don't expect at this early stage -- we've only been using cell phones with a high frequency for less than ten years, for about 10, 20 years. So again, you know, the concern, and based on the biology we know with the development of cancer -- the real concern is what happens after 20, 30, 40 years. And that is what we need to be concerned about, and that's why I think the University of Pittsburgh advised us to be cautious.

KING: The evidence, Dr. Song, having done so many interviews over the years, against tobacco, was statistical. It wasn't -- they didn't know why tobacco caused lung cancer, only that it caused cancer. You use tobacco, you've got an increased chance. Is that going to be the evidence here, statistical?

DR. PAUL SONG, RADIATION ONCOLOGIST: It could be, but it may be another 10, 20 years before we have the necessary statistics to make those recommendations. What we do know from radiation studies, whether it was people exposed in Hiroshima, to kids treated for cancer with radiation, is that sometimes it took 15, 20 years before people developed cancer, secondary that we could attribute to the radiation.

When we talk about cell phones, we're looking at radio frequency, which is on the big spectrum of electromagnetic radiation. You've got radio waves on one side, which is responsible for TV, radio and cell phones, and then you've gamma waves on the other side. What we know about the gamma waves or the more intense radiation is that's a ionizing radiation that causes DNA damage, that mutates cells that develop into cancer.

For the radio waves, there has been no clear evidence to suggest that it's a DNA damage. So if there is some damage, it has to be some other mechanism that has really yet to be reported.

KING: So what would you say to people who use cell phones?

SONG: I think the most important thing is that when we look at any type of radiation exposure, whether or not it's radio waves or gamma waves, is that the duration of your exposure. So clearly if you're on the cell phone for a long period of time -- I think we all have been in situations where our ear gets warm -- that clearly means maybe we're on a little too long.

KING: So do what?

SONG: I think that an earpiece may help to greatly reduce the exposure for radio frequency radiation, but people need to keep in mind if the phone is on the hip pocket, their whole body is still being exposed to the same amount of radiation than if it was up to their ear.

KING: So it's what choice of cancer do I want? Hip or brain? SONG: Surprisingly, the concern about radio frequency exposure is not so much for the brain or the hip, but really the testes or the eyes. Those are the areas that are most sensitive to radio frequency, because they get hot and they don't have the blood vessels to cool off.

KING: Would you say, Dr. Davis, always use an earpiece. Don't put a cell phone up to your ear?

DAVIS: If at all possible, use an earpiece. It does reduce substantially the signal, because the further away you can have the phone from your body, the better off it is from you.

KING: What about 8 and 9 -- 10-year-olds all over elementary school running around with them now?

DAVIS: Right now, unfortunately, of the 28 million children in this country between the ages of eight and 12, about half of them are using a cell phone. Sometimes it's their mom and dad's, but using it frequently. We're all very concerned about that. We know the cell signal gets deeply into the brain of a child.

KING: Are you concerned, Dr. Black, about the child?

BLACK: Yes, I am. We know that young brains may be more susceptible, and they have a longer exposure. And some of the studies have also suggested that the longer the exposure, the higher the risk. I think the key thing here, Larry, is that we would assume as a society that cell phones are safe, that the government wouldn't allow us to use this device unless it was safe. The reality is it's a source of microwave radiation. There have been studies to suggest there may be an associated risk of brain cancer and also a benign tumor of the ear, and there have been some studies to suggest eye tumors as well.

The important thing for your listeners to hear is that they need to be cautious, because we may not have the answer to this for another 10 years.

KING: Another distinguished doctor will be joining us, and we'll take some calls too. And some may come from cell phones. Stay there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I try to use the speaker, you know. I mean, you hear stuff on TV. It's like why not just use the speaker?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually text message a little more, because I hear about that all the time, and you think maybe 50 years down the road or something, it may affect you negatively. So, you see people using that all the time and you think, maybe we'll all be affected like DDT was back in the '40s or something like that. So it definitely is a concern right now for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Do you think there's a link between cell phones and brain cancer? That's our quick vote tonight. Go to CNN.com/larryking right now, cast your vote.

Joining our panel from New York is Dr. Ted Schwartz, director of brain tumor surgery at New York's Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell.

Where do you stand on this issue, Ted?

DR. TED SCHWARTZ, N.Y. PRESBYTERIAN/WEILL CORNELL HOSPITAL: Larry, thanks for asking. First of all, I want to say I certainly understand the public's fear of this issue. And I think that want to do everything I can for myself, for my patients, for my family to avoid any risk that would cause brain tumors. But I think there are a few things we agree upon here. The first is that the majority of brain tumors are not caused by cell phones. Brain tumors have been around long before cell phones were in existence. There's not an increased incidence that is significance, and it's probably an increased incidence of our ability to pick them up and our ability to publicize them.

The other thing I think we agree upon is that the currently available literature is at best inconclusive about whether there's a link between cell phone use and brain tumors. There are just as many studies showing that cell phones decrease the risk of brain tumors as increase the risk. And we're not here talking about the facts that cell phones may be protective.

KING: What do you make of the report out of the University of Pittsburgh.

SCHWARTZ: The Pittsburgh report is no new data. They're just looking at the data that currently exists. One of the problems with these long term studies, these ten-year studies is that they're based on the use of analog cell phones. Nobody uses analog cell phones any more. They have a higher power. They emit more power. We use digital phones now and there's absolutely no data on digital phones, their long-term use and the incidence of cancer.

The question is, is it reasonable to base a public health warning on a lack of evidence? Basically, we have no good evidence one way or the other. And my answer is no.

KING: Let's take a call. St. Louis, Missouri, hello.

CALLER: Good evening, Larry, and good evening to your panel.

I actually have two quick questions. If there's any study showing that using cordless phones are harmful? And living by a cell phone tower, if that's harmful?

KING: Two good questions -- Dr. Black?

BLACK: Cordless phones emit a much lower frequency of radiation, and they're much safer than cell phones. And I have no real concerns, Larry, with --

DAVIS: Well, there has been a study from Sweden where they have used cordless phones longer, and unfortunately what they found was that there was a doubled risk of a brain tumor with long use of cordless phones. And many cordless phones actually have as much radiation as a cell phone, if not more.

KING: Cell phone tower?

SONG: That's something that's still under debate. There's a lots of investigation of whether or not there might be an increase of lymphoma with people living next to cell phone towers, but still no conclusive data exists.

DAVIS: I guess that's the issue, if I may say. The data that we're talking about here are human, sick people. That's the challenge. That's why the doctor wrote the memo. That's what we do as Pittsburgh. We're doing one of the best things in the world, in terms of treating people with cancer. All the people here work on that. Yet, if we think there's a way to avoid future cancers by reducing the risk of something that may cause a lot of problems in the future, we ought to try to do that.

KING: Dr. Schwartz, how do you use your cell phone?

SCHWARTZ: I put it right up to my ear and don't use an earpiece unless I'm driving. I think that's the general recommendation.

KING: You put it up to your ear?

SCHWARTZ: I have it right here, but I wouldn't take a call. I think it is safe to use, again, based on the current available data. We don't know whether watching a television has an increased risk of causing cancer. We don't know whether using a hair dryer increases your risk of cancer. IN fact, there are some studies showing there might be a link. But they're not well-performed studies, so we don't go around issuing public health warnings about it, based on the fact that we don't really and do have enough evidence. So I think it's a little premature to issue those kinds of warnings.

KING: Dr. Davis stays with us.

Dr. Schwartz and Dr. Song, Dr. Black, always good seeing you. Thank you very much.

You did four brain surgeries today, right?

BLACK: Correct.

KING: LARRY KING LIVE contacted cell phone companies to take part in our program today. We contacted T-Mobile, AT&T, Motorola, LG Electronics, Qualcom, Nokia, Verizon, Samsung and Sprint. All declined our invitation. We contacted Erickson too, got no response. Many companies we spoke with us referred us to the association that represents the wireless industry. They too declined our invitation, but they did give us this statement, quote, "This is an issue that should be guided by science. The overwhelming majority of studies that have been published in scientific journals around the world show that wireless phones do not pose a health risk. Furthermore, this is the public position of leading health organizations, such as the United States Food and Drug Administration, the American Cancer Society and the World Health Organization. Public statements and declarations not guided by published scientific research can have the effect of misinforming the general public. As technology continues to evolve, the industry supports continued research. But we want to stress the fact that this a consensus among leading health organizations concerning published scientific research, and they show no reason for concern."

And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We now welcome, in Atlanta, Dr. Otis Brawley, chief medical officer of the America Cancer Society, a practicing oncologist, and our old friend Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's chief medical correspondent, a practicing neurosurgeon himself.

Dr. Brawley, what do you make of the report out of Pittsburgh?

DR. OTIS W. BRAWLEY, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, AMERICAN CANCER SOCIETY: I understand exactly why people are concerned, and I share their concern. but I think we need to tell people what's known, what's not known and what's believed, and not confuse what's believed with what's known. First off, the number of brain tumors in Sweden, the first country to get cell phones has actually gone down over the last 25 years. The number of brain cancers in the United States has actually gone down. They've not been flat or gone up with cell phones.

Secondly, this is the kind of radiation that is not ionizing radiation. This is not microwave radiation. And a lot of people are confused by that. I think we also need to know there are 19 studies that have been done, three that suggest that cell phones might be associated with brain tumors, 16 that actually exonerate cell phones as a cause of brain tumors.

So we have to take all of these things into concern. I'm afraid we're pulling the fire alarm, scaring people unnecessarily, and actually diverting their attention from things that they should be doing. And when we do need to pull the fire alarm for a public health emergency, we won't have the credibility for them to listen to us.

KING: Dr. Gupta?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I agree with what Dr. Brawley has said. I think part of the issue here is trying to prove a negative, trying to say that these are not dangerous and they are safe as well. You know, part of the issue is -- and I think Dr. Brawley's obviously looked at a lot of the studies -- one of the ones that a lot of people quote -- and I read these studies exhaustively -- defines, for example, a regular cell phone user as someone who uses a cell phone once a day for six months.

Now, that obviously is not how most people use their cell phones. It's not to say if you use it more than that, you're definitely at risk. but I don't know that the studies have been good enough and they certainly, I don't think, have been long term enough.

So I think right not to pull the fire alarm, but are we missing something here? Should we be a little more careful?

BRAWLEY: I would agree with you that we don't know what the 20 or 30-year experience is going to be with cell phones. I would also agree with you that of the 19 studies that have been done, each one of them, actually, I could criticize. Indeed, in my 20 year career, I think I can criticize virtually every study I've ever read. So you're right. There's a great deal of unknown here.

If an individual is concerned about this, we really do need to tell them the simple answer is use an ear piece. I agree with the recommendation that kids with developing brains ought not be using cell phones a lot. I have no problem with a child using it occasionally. But I am worried about people who are on it or four, five hours every day.

KING: That's fair enough. We have an e-mail question from Sage, Santa Barbara: "If the WHO Interphone study confirms a link between cell phone use and an increased risk of brain cancer, what should the public health community's response be" -- Dr. Brawley?

BRAWLEY: I think we're going to have to look at the Interphone Study very carefully. For those listeners who don't know, the Interphone Study is run by the World Health Organization of the United Nations. It's actually been completed for about two and a half years and the people who actually ran the study have yet to publish it. There's a lot of discussions going on amongst those scientists as to exactly what the data show. And it would be really nice if it were published, I must tell you.

KING: Thanks, Dr. Brawley, great seeing you. We hope to have you back real soon.

BRAWLEY: Thank you.

KING: Dr. Gupta remains. He will join our panel members. We'll have some e-mails coming in right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with Deborah Davis, Dr. Ted Schwartz, Dr. Paul Song and, in New York, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Dr. Gupta wanted to add something about cell phones and children -- Doctor?

GUPTA: One thing that Dr. Brawley brought up is this idea that electromagnetic radiation that can be of concern. Larry, I know you like pictures. Sometimes they can be worth a thousand words. Take a look here. This was from a study looking at the amount of penetration of this electromagnetic radiation in a five-year-old over. Certainly see it's more. This is the brain and this is the amount of radiation penetrating into the brain, compared to a 10-year-old and compared to an adult.

Again, this type of radiation is not ionizing radiation, which everybody agrees, I think, is bad for you. But the question is what is this really doing to a young child's brain? A lot of these studies being done on adults. Now you have children using these phones and they're going to use them their entire lives. They're going to have 60, 70 years usage. What is that effect of penetration of radiation on the brain?

KING: And Dr. Davis, during the break, you said you agreed with the industry?

DAVIS: Of course I agree with the industry. That's the reason why we issued the warning. The reality is we do not have studies yet and, with all due respect, we can't vote on whether or not cell phones cause cancer with polls. What we need is independent research. In fact, Dr. Herberman and the doctors here, Dr. Song and I, Dr. Bondy from MD Anderson, we join now to call for the cell phone industries to make their data publicly available for independent evaluation by scientists. The cell phone industry is correct, that is the only way we'll answer the question.

The old phones were bad, but let's see whether the new ones have any risk at all, given the fact that so many of us are using them now.

KING: Dr. Schwartz, we have an e-mail from Danny in San Clemente (ph): "I hear all these stories that cell phones may cause cancer and they scare me, but I'm a teenager, so I'm on my phone all the time. I like to talk to people through the speaker phone on my cell phone. Is that dangerous?"

SCHWARTZ: Well, if he holds the phone far or close, again, currently available data doesn't show it will really make a difference, because the data is suspect. There are no good studies. We need better studies. I agree with most of the people here, that we should focus on good randomized studies, where we follow patients for a long period of time, or people who use phones and see if there's an increase incidence of brain tumors over time. Then we'll know the answer and we can issue appropriate statements.

KING: Dr. Song, what does your gut tell you?

SONG: I think that it's still way too soon to tell, because any radiation induced malignancy takes about 15 to 20 years for us to see. With regard to the last question, I just wanted to add that the viewer, if you hold your phone half the distance from where it is right now, you will actually reduce your radiation exposure by a quarter. So it's probably a good idea to take more advantage of the speaker use if you are concerned about it.

Again, there isn't any clear evidence that doing that is going to reduce your cancer risk because we don't know that it does cause cancer. If you are concerned about any radiation frequency exposure, that might be a safe thing to do.

KING: We're down to about a minute. Dr. Gupta, an e-mail from Jack in Davy, Florida: "if future research shows that cell phones can cause cancer, what are we supposed to do? Cell phones are a very big part of today's world. Terminating cell phone use would be extremely disruptive, assuming it was even possible."

GUPTA: I don't think it is possible and I don't think that you need to terminate usage. The earpiece sounds simple, but it can be very effective. The idea is that the cell phone may be giving off -- may be a radiation source, simply moving it away from your brain. Use a wired earpiece, don't carry it in your pocket. There are simple things that you can do and still have access to your cell phone.

KING: Dr. Schwartz, do you think we'll find out the answer?

SCHWARTZ: I think if we do the right study, we'll find out the answer. But if we don't do the right study, we'll never know.

KING: Do you we'll find out, Deborah?

DAVIS: I think we shouldn't wait 20 years to experiment on our children. That's why we need to take precautions. We will eventually solve this scientifically, but I'm concerned about what we do in the meantime. And that's why we've issued this precautionary statement.

KING: We are out of time. I thank you all, Deborah Davis, Dr. Ted Schwartz, Dr. Paul Song, and Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Before we wrap this up, I want to take a moment to remember a pal of mine, Sid Craig. He co-founded Jenny Craig Weight Loss Centers with his wife and he died last week at age 76. There was a memorial service for him today in San Diego. Sid was a great father -- look at that face -- a great father, a wonderful husband, a terrific friend, a rock solid businessman and a real sweetheart of a guy. He was also crazy about thoroughbred race horses. He even owned one named Larry King. He was a generous man too, always ready to lend a helping hand.

Our deepest sympathies go out to Sid's family. A special hug for Jenny Craig, a very dear friend. Jenny, Sid will live in all of our hearts. We know he's up there dancing.

Tomorrow, the foreclosure nightmare. What can you do before losing your home? That's Wednesday's LARRY KING LIVE.

Now, here's Campbell Brown with tonight's "AC 360" -- Campbell.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0807/29/lkl.01.html

[mrskub]

NANCY GRACE
Aired August 8, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news. Police, they are desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl named Caylee after her grandparents report her missing, Caylee not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother.
Headlines tonight: Another jailhouse phone call between Casey Anthony and her family just released. We have that audiotape. And the clock is ticking on key DNA evidence results, including hair, fluid, even dirt taken from mom, Casey`s, car trunk, this as divers are searching lakes and ponds right now near the home. What will they find?

And a search warrant reveals Casey Anthony told police lie after lie after lie, and we`ve got more of them for you tonight. Also, the defense still fighting to get Casey Anthony out of jail. In the last hours, another motion filed with an appellate court to get the young mother`s bond reduced, this as that bombshell search warrant pokes even more holes into Casey`s story, sending the already complicated and confusing timeline even into more disarray.

And the so-called baby-sitter attached to the Sawgrass apartments -- she`s found, but police say she`s not involved and she doesn`t know Casey Anthony or little Caylee. But grandmother, Cindy, claims it is not the Zenaida Gonzalez mom, Casey, claims is connected to her daughter`s disappearance. With Casey (SIC) Anthony set to turn 3 years old tomorrow, still no sign of the little girl.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: You people have no idea what we`re going through! You guys don`t give a -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. You don`t care none of this stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

GEORGE ANTHONY: Shut up! I`m talking! I am talking!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: George Anthony, unbridled and outraged, so unlike the congenial George we are used to talking with, frustrated and angry, upset because he feels helpless.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Leave me alone! Leave me alone!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And Cindy Anthony trying to keep the peace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is he upset?

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: This is why he`s upset. Back off, OK, please, before I lose my husband right now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy spoke with us after George sped off, pleading to give them space, telling us the family is falling apart.

CINDY ANTHONY: You guys see the tough George, the tough Cindy, the tough Lee in front of all you guys. We`re not like that all the time, OK? We`re falling apart.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This one day after Orange County investigators release new details in the case that show more lies from their daughter, Casey, that she never had any phone calls with the mystery baby-sitter and never got a call from Caylee after she disappeared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: Did you ever call the baby- sitter on your cell phone or ever receive a call from the baby-sitter on your cell phone number?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I most definitely did.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Police are desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee Anthony. Moments ago, another jailhouse phone call from Casey Anthony just released. DNA evidence results, including hair and fluid taken from Casey`s car trunk, due back at any time. And a bombshell search warrant pokes even more holes in Casey Anthony`s story. Where is Caylee Anthony?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your sister is being truthful?

LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: To the best of her ability right now, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounding at times like his sister`s defense attorney, Caylee Anthony`s uncle, Lee Anthony, dismissed a recent statement by one Zenaida Gonzalez that she`s not Caylee`s nanny and never heard of the missing girl.

LEE ANTHONY: To try to pinpoint, you know, the idea that this is -- that that fits that person, it`s ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And detectives allege there was no phone call from a Zenaida Gonzalez or anyone at the time Casey said she talked to Caylee. But Lee insisted...

LEE ANTHONY: There`s plenty of calls that are unaccounted for. There are some calls that do not have a caller ID. Frankly, I wouldn`t still be here if I didn`t think that she was trying to cooperate with me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But today, she didn`t. When Casey was asked by a corrections officer if she wanted to meet with her brother, Lee, she declined.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No reason was given for this. It`s the inmate`s right not to conduct a visitation, if they choose to.

CINDY ANTHONY: George is very angry about a lot of stuff, and he`s frustrated because he feels helpless because he can`t do anything to find his granddaughter.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m trying to find my granddaughter. You guys don`t care about this. All you care about is the sensationalism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, you have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY: Sweetheart...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! You understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!

CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: Hey, Case.

CASEY ANTHONY: Hey, I need a favor.

LEE ANTHONY: Sure.

CASEY ANTHONY: Can you get ahold of Jose and have him come and see me as soon as he can, like, today at some point?

LEE ANTHONY: Yes. Let me -- let me give him a call.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, if you could do that, I`d greatly appreciate it, you know, and give everyone my love, obviously. But I only have a minute to talk, so...

LEE ANTHONY: OK. Yes, I`ll do that right now.

CASEY ANTHONY: OK. I appreciate it.

LEE ANTHONY: All right. Love you.

CASEY ANTHONY: Love you, too. Bye.

LEE ANTHONY: Bye.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CASAREZ: And that is the brand-new jailhouse conversation just came out, Casey asking for her attorney.

Let`s go straight out to Mark Williams, news director for WNDB news radio talk 1150. Mark, good evening. What`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Good evening, Jean. Well, it is day 24 of the search for missing Caylee Anthony. Thus far, no sign of her whatsoever. Today, dive teams from the Orange County sheriff`s office went to a retention pond in the neighborhood where George and Cindy Anthony live. They strung up a lot of crime scene tape around the lake itself, trying to prevent people from getting in there. And basically, what they did was, they were just out there looking for things. They found a couple of things, like three automobiles that were reported stolen, or believed to be reported stolen but nothing in connection with the missing Caylee Anthony whatsoever.

Also, transcripts released late this afternoon dealing with a phone call made last Saturday between Casey Anthony and her brother, Lee Anthony, Casey, of course, calling from the Orange County jail. In those transcripts released just a short time ago, Casey asked Lee to get ahold of her attorney, Jose Baez, and have him stop by the jail. In another part of the transcript, she said that she loved everyone in the family.

Also, expecting some DNA results back from the FDLE and possibly the FBI any time. We are just waiting for that. And of course, we`re talking about Casey Anthony`s web of lies. They`re not only big here in central Florida, but they`re also big nationwide. One of the biggest parts, of course, is the fact that she said this Zenaida Gonzalez who showed up yesterday and who said doesn`t know the Anthonys whatsoever -- but Casey said that`s who she gave little Caylee to.

Also, she alleged that one of her roommates was a woman by the name of Raquel Ferrell (ph) and worked as a hostess at the TGIFriday`s here in Orlando area. The cops checked it out. The company checked it out. They don`t have any record of this individual whatsoever. There`s lie number one.

Lie number two, of course, Lee Anthony handing over a lot of e-mail, a lot of Casey`s e-mail to investigators. On the string (ph) and on the thread was a gentleman by the name of Thomas Franks (ph) or Tom Franks, who works for -- allegedly worked for Universal Entertainment. They talked about an event, allegedly, that was going to come up. Well, cops e-mailed him. The e-mail bounced back, saying that the e-mail address is invalid.

And of course, Lee Anthony earlier today trying to visit Casey at the Orange County jail. The deal was, he went there early this morning, about 9:00 o`clock. They get a 45-minute visit. And the deal is, Casey refused three times to see Lee. Even the supervisor at the desk called to Casey three times, Would you like to see your brother? She said no three times. And that`s where things stand right now.

CASAREZ: All right, Mark. So much information. We`re going to discuss it all. But let`s go out right now to Natisha Lance, live at the scene in Orlando, Florida, for a vigil tonight. She`s a producer for Nancy Grace. Natisha, what`s happening at that vigil right now?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the it held off just -- the rain held off long enough just until the end, and the Anthonys are actually packing up right now. You can see them to my right over here. But it started about 6:00 PM this evening. A large crowd came from the St. Cloud area. A very beautiful ceremony. There was a lot of emotion. They let off balloons.

And this all sparked by a 12-year-old girl who was inspired by the search for Caylee Anthony. She and her grandmother put this together in just six days. They`ve become very close with the Anthony family. In fact, this little girl calls them Grandpa and Grandma. And they had a vigil today.

Now, the whole town has pitched in. There was food that was donated. The commissioner came and he spoke. The Anthony family spoke, as well, today. George Anthony speaking actually about that outburst that he had this morning, apologizing to the media for that.

And they once again just reiterated over and over again that they want Caylee home and they want everyone to keep them in their prayers.

CASAREZ: Natisha, tomorrow is Caylee`s birthday, 3 years old. Was that mentioned at the vigil tonight?

LANCE: It was. They sang "Happy Birthday" to Caylee while the candles were all lit. Everybody joined hands and sang her a big "Happy Birthday." Now, her birthday is tomorrow. There was some talk previously as to whether or not they were going to have a big birthday celebration, inviting the media. But they decided, as a family, that they`re going to do something very quiet and private just themselves together quietly. However, Cindy Anthony did give us her assurance that if Caylee comes home, as they hope that she does, that she will alert all of us. She has all of our phone numbers.

CASAREZ: And as the vigil continues tonight, also does the diving. I want to go to Tom Shamshak, private investigator out of Boston. Let`s talk about these dives. You know, the police are saying that this is a routine diving exercise. But yet the dives are being done at lakes and ponds about a half a mile from the home, very close. What are they looking for in those dives?

TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, these, Jean, would be normal investigatory measures. They`re coupling training exercises. But the real focus here is on looking for remains associated with this missing girl. What they`d be looking for would be, obviously, skeletal remains, a weapon, trace evidence. And it`s not out of the ordinary for them to be doing this. This has become the focus of a homicide investigation.

CASAREZ: Officially, it is a missing persons investigation, but you`re right, they have to go in all directions at this point. It`s been so long.

I want to go out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist. You know, this is a forensic case. It truly is. We`re waiting momentarily for those forensic results to come back. But one thing I want to ask you, Doctor, is that normally, the FDLE does testing forensics. We`re talking about the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. We have found out that the FBI is doing testing on some of this forensic evidence. What is the difference here? What can the FBI do that maybe FDLE cannot?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, first of all, FDLE is a fully accredited laboratory. It`s an excellent laboratory, full capabilities. But the FBI has resources that county and state labs just don`t have. They have sophisticated instrumentation that can provide information that just can`t be accomplished through one of these other laboratories, like the FDLE.

And there is a lot of evidence here to be looked at, not only the evidence that was found in the vehicle, in the trunk, but also the evidence that we`ve been hearing about that`s been collected from the home, clothing and the other items that might provide -- might shed some light on what direction we should be taking.

CASAREZ: Back to Tom Shamshak for a second, private investigator. Since this is such is a huge forensic case at this point, and we know the car was abandoned, the car that Casey was driving -- and last night, Nancy focused on the pants, the pants that her mother inadvertently washed, put in her room. But there were also shoes and boots in that car, on the floorboard, in the back seat, shoes and boots. As an investigator, would you collect them? And what could you find from them?

SHAMSHAK: Absolutely. The footwear would contain possible vegetative matter, soil, blood, oils. And as Dr. Kobilinsky said earlier, the police will follow the evidence, and it will direct this investigation. And I think literally, this investigation is under the microscope.

CASAREZ: Yes, that is right. You know, I covered a case for Court TV -- now In Session -- and because the person was wearing the shoes, there was DNA underneath the shoes that normally would not have been there, of the victim. And that was some of the primary evidence.

Dr. Kobilinsky, I want to ask you very fast, when you`re in a situation with a mother and a daughter, a husband and a wife, obviously, the DNA is going to be all over each one of those people because they lived together. But when you`re talking about underneath shoes, that`s not normally where you would find the DNA of someone, correct?

KOBILINSKY: Well, that`s correct. Finding DNA is only part of the story. It`s got to be explained. Criminalists do reconstructions to try to understand how that DNA got where it got. So you`ll find DNA in the shoe, perhaps under the shoe. All of this has to be reconstructed.

CASAREZ: All right. Let`s go out to our first caller tonight. Mary from Kentucky. Good evening, Mary. Thanks for calling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

CASAREZ: Hi. Your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question was, her actions at the bars, and was she so upset over losing -- or at the death of her daughter that she`s trying to act alive or making herself feel like that she`s still alive?

CASAREZ: That`s a good question. Let`s go to Lillian Glass, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Dr. Glass, let`s look at the timeline here because June 15, June 16, the last time that Caylee was ever seen alive, four days later, Friday, June 20, that night, that`s when those pictures were taken, at the body contest at that nightclub. Is there remorse here? Is it covered up by laughter and partying?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, I don`t know if it`s covered up, but it seems very, very strange. When a baby`s missing, the mother doesn`t usually laugh and party. That is very, very strange. And when you look at her whole behavior, it`s been strange. There`s been inappropriate laughter that the police have mentioned. She is not acting as a mother whose baby has been missing. So something is very, very peculiar that`s going on with her.

CASAREZ: Yes. And another thing that`s peculiar is this Zenaida Gonzalez, that she has said from the beginning that she gave her little girl to, but there goes not a Zenaida Gonzalez who says, I know of Casey Alexander (SIC).

I want to go to the attorneys. First of all, Gloria Allred, attorney and victims` rights advocate joining us tonight, Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, and John Burris, defense attorney. Thank you so much to all of the attorneys.

Gloria Allred, someone I respect so much and so happy to be with you tonight, there`s a question that I have. And you can figure everything out, so I want to ask you, all right? And this could lend some credibility to Casey, all right? Listen to this. Casey took investigators to an apartment complex, the Sawgrass apartments. And she said, That`s where I left my little girl. That`s where I left her, with Zenaida Gonzalez. Zenaida Gonzalez, who police have cleared at this point, independently said, I went to that exact apartment complex. I filled out an information card, and I looked at an apartment. It was several days after the last time Caylee was ever seen. Those two independent statements there -- how do you reconcile them?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, that alone would make it very interesting, except for one fact, Jean, and that is, apparently, the police have shown a photograph of that Zenaida Gonzalez to Casey, and she says that`s not the same Zenaida Gonzalez that she left her daughter with.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Everybody has positive thoughts the little girl`s going to come home. You can do a lot more with positive than you can do negative. And right now, there`s a lot of negativity out there. And I`m getting tired and tired to have to justifying things.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When Caylee Anthony`s grandfather, George Anthony, stepped out, we saw an outburst that reveals the stress his family is under.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m not talking to anybody. Stay off my property. Stay away from me. Stay away from me right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He yelled at members of the media, who have been documenting his every move since 2-year-old Caylee was reported missing more than three weeks ago.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You people have no idea what we`re going through. You guys don`t give a -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. You don`t care about none of this stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: So much emotion. I`m Jean Casarez of In Session, for Nancy Grace tonight. Divers continue to search the lakes and the pond so close to the Alexander (SIC) home. And also, the DNA results. We`re expecting them back at any time, and investigators have told us they are testing a lot of things.

I want to go out to one of our callers, Kelly in Pennsylvania. Good evening, Kelly. Hi. What`s your call (SIC)?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I would like to know why Casey is not in general population when she`s in prison. And how much -- why does she have so much phone access?

CASAREZ: OK. Very good question. Let`s go out to the attorneys. Let`s go to former prosecutor Holly Hughes right now. Does she have more phone access than normally someone would?

HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: No, it doesn`t appear that she does. She has limited phone access. And she`s not in general population because she`s not in the state prison system, at this point, Jean. She`s in the county jail, which, of course, is a much smaller population. So you have a different cell set-up than you would in a state prison.

The only phone access she has is what`s allowed to everybody. There`s a certain amount of time she can use the phone each day. And she actually references that, Jean, in her calls. (INAUDIBLE) on the tape, she says to her brother, Lee, at point, I`ve only got a few minutes, call Jose, this is important, I need to get this out. So at this point, she`s not receiving any special treatment.

CASAREZ: But John Burris, very quickly, she refused to see her brother today when he went to the jail to talk with her.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that, given all that`s happening to her, she may be becoming very frustrated. There`s no one she talks to that`s being helpful. Plus, her telephone calls are being monitored. And so the fact that they`re being monitored, there`s really no privacy involved. So I can appreciate her not wanting to do any more talking. If I`m her lawyer, I`m advising her not to have any telephone conversations with anyone other than the lawyers.

CASAREZ: I bet you are. To tonight`s "Case Alert," the search for a missing Georgia woman, 31-year-old Melissa Haller. She was last seen Sunday driving to a Marietta park, but she never returned home. Her car was found abandoned and out of gas near Gaffney, South Carolina. According to family, Haller suffers from mental illness and is off of her medication. She is 5-feet-8", 120 pounds and has brown hair. Now, take a look at this. If you have any information, call Cherokee County police, 678-493-4200, or e-mail Melissaismissing@gmail.com.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. We are waiting for forensic results from the FBI. Divers continue to search very close to the home.

Let`s go out to Joyce from Kentucky. Good evening, Joyce.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean.

CASAREZ: Hi.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, do you think Casey is holding out on her lies in case they do find little Caylee, that she can say somebody else killed her?

CASAREZ: Well, her lies are very, very interesting.

Very quickly, Nikki Pierce, what has she been referred to in the search warrants as far as a liar?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, there have been a lot of references to her not telling the truth. Several acquaintances, friend of hers, have said that she`s a habitual liar. She lied about her work. She lied about where she last saw Caylee. The list just goes on and on.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Hey, Case.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: Hey, I need a favor.

L. ANTHONY: Sure.

C. ANTHONY: Can you get a hold of Jose and have him come and see me as soon as he can, like today, at some point.

L. ANTHONY: Yes. Let me -- let me give him a call.

C. ANTHONY: Yes, if you could do that, I`d greatly appreciate it, you know, and give everyone my love, obviously, but I only have a minute to talk so.

L. ANTHONY: OK. Yes, I`ll do that right now.

C. ANTHONY: OK. I appreciate it.

L. ANTHONY: All right. I love you.

C. ANTHONY: Love you, too. Bye.

L. ANTHONY: Bye.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: You have no idea what we`re going through. You don`t give a -- you don`t care about me. You don`t care about her. You don`t care about my granddaughter. You don`t care about any of us.

Shut up, I`m talking. I am talking. I`m trying to find my granddaughter. You guys don`t care about that. All you care about is the sensationalism.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: He`s been angry every day. You just haven`t seen it, OK? You hear something that finally comes to a head, you know, stuff that festers, OK? Anger has been there since day one. He`s been.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: At who, though?

CINDY: Anger at the situation. Anger at the fact that Caylee is not home. Angry at a lot of things. Angry that, you know, we are helpless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight. Another little bit of information, Casey Alexander`s mother, Cindy, who you just saw on the screen, she has said that she will take a polygraph examination swearing to the fact that she has heard the name of Zenaida Gonzalez for several years now, that it`s not just a name her daughter fabricated.

We got a caller, Sheila in Wisconsin. Good evening, Sheila.

SHEILA, WISCONSIN RESIDENT: Hi. My question, is -- since we don`t know if it`s the babysitter that looked at the apartment or if it`s Casey and whoever showed the apartment, did they copy the driver`s license since it was in a bad area, isn`t there some kind of surveillance camera or something that we could look at over there?

CASAREZ: Great, great question, because surveillance cameras are very common on apartment complexes.

Let`s go out to Nikki Pierce, reporter with WDBO Radio. Any possibility there is a surveillance camera on the property at the Sawmill Apartments?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: If there`s a surveillance camera it -- or surveillance system of any kind, it hasn`t been discussed. They did say that they took Zenaida Gonzalez`s driver`s license and they looked at it, they wrote down her information, but they didn`t take a copy of it. They said that they showed her an apartment and that was the extent of the involvement.

As I understand it, investigators did take some pictures out to the person who showed the apartment and they did identify the Zenaida Gonzalez that was found by a local television station as the person who came to look at the apartment.

CASAREZ: I have to reiterate, that is a very strange coincidence.

PIERCE: It is.

CASAREZ: . that Zenaida Gonzalez actually went to that apartment complex a few days after Caylee went missing. But yet, just as Gloria Allred said to us, the family of Casey said -- and Casey herself said, oh, no, that`s not the Zenaida Gonzalez that we`ve known for several years.

Let`s go back out to Gloria Allred, attorney, victims right advocate.

Gloria, there are victims in this case. Of course, Caylee, she is our primary victim. But do you see any other victims along the way at this point?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: Well, again, I agree with you, Jean, that Caylee is the primary victim. In a way, Caylee`s grandparents are also victims, perhaps, of their own intentions to try to find Caylee and to try to deal with the media themselves, which I think they`re not really doing successfully.

But, of course, how could they, because they have no training, they have no idea, they really have should have somebody assist them and represent them because right now it`s just getting out of control. Their nerves are raw. They`re expressing their emotions.

Some of the things they`ve said in the past really are not helpful to finding Caylee, not helpful to Casey, even though they intend it to be helpful.

CASAREZ: And that`s exactly what I was thinking because people are saying, gee, this family is coming out before the cameras every single day, but they`re trying to find their granddaughter. There`s a little girl that`s lost. She`s missing. And they believe, maybe very rightfully so, that the only way to find Caylee is for their presence continually on the medium.

Gloria, let me also ask you about Zenaida Gonzalez. She is saying that she can`t go anywhere because people hear her name and that`s it. She can`t get jobs or service.

Could she have a civil claim at all at the end of this?

ALLRED: Well, she might or she might not but let`s assume for purposes of discussion that she did, and that she had it against Casey. Under the heading of "you can`t get blood from a stone," if she sued Casey and was successful, there`s nothing to get. Casey has zero. She doesn`t have any assets. I don`t know that she is going to have any. And if she is convicted, she`s not going to be able to be employed for a long time, if ever.

And so, you know, I don`t think that it`s likely that any case would be pursued or that any attorney would invest any time in pursuing a case against Casey.

CASAREZ: So right, Gloria.

John Burris, defense attorney, I want to talk about -- you know, we do have formal charges here of child neglect. There`s going to be a defense. What is that defense going to be?

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, right now, obviously, the question is whether this is murder or not. I mean, she has the child neglect issue and she`s going to have to deal with that.

I think the more question I see here is this woman`s mental stability. And I think some kind of defense is going to have to be focused around it. It assumes that, one, the child is found and there`s a homicide involved. Then all eyes are going to turn to the mom in terms of how that happened. So you`ve got to have an alibi defense it wasn`t her, she was somewhere else. That`s certainly one thing.

If she doesn`t have an alibi, then she`s going to have to have some kind of defense that goes to mental stability. Everything I`ve heard about suggests that she is not at a particularly stable person. It`s not -- that doesn`t necessarily mean she has a defense around that.

But I think as a defense attorney you got to develop this to see where it goes given how she presents herself so far.

CASAREZ: But here`s the problem. She took investigators to Universal city where she said she worked. She got there. Security said, no, you don`t work there. She said, yes, I do. And so security allowed all of them to go inside and the investigator said take us to your desk.

And she walked forcefully, they said, with purpose to her desk. She finally turned around inside Universal and said, you know what, I don`t work here at all, I just don`t.

That shows, John Burress, a state of mind she knew exactly what she was doing, she was lying and then she decided at the very last minute, you know what, I`m not going to get away with this, I better tell the truth.

Let`s go to.

BURRIS: Yes, it`s true. I mean it`s true that she does -- that doesn`t mean she has a personality -- don`t have a personality disorder because she can carry out certain kinds of activities. I`m just saying given all that we know, you`ve got to look at her mental state.

If she doesn`t have an alibi -- and the alibi is she was somewhere else, she was not involved in it, but if it`s clear she was, then she`s got to deal with the whole question what is her mental state.

And as a defense lawyer you want to go through analytically and determine what is the mental state that`s required for each aspect of the defense and see if there`s something that, obviously, has some impact on that. You don`t really know until you really get into and start looking at her and doing some test results which I would do, I`d have a psychological workup done on her immediately to figure out there`s a personality disorder.

People do not habitually lie just to lie. So there`s something may be going on with her.

CASAREZ: All right. Marlene in Florida, good evening, Marlene, what`s your question?

MARLENE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Good -- I`m sorry, good evening. I got nervous. Do you think she could be pulling a scam and she`s acting this way because she knows her daughter is alive and she got lying and now she - - the lie got bigger and bigger and everything is getting out of hand to maybe -- what do you think?

CASAREZ: Well, I think that`s a great question, Marlene.

Let`s go to Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, who has dealt so much with this. What do you think? Do you think that possibly this little girl is alive and she`s just continually lying so she can`t get caught in her own lie?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Unfortunately, Jean, I don`t think she is alive. I think this little girl was killed probably accidentally in a moment of anger and everything that Casey has been doing since then is to cover it up. Of course, she hasn`t been charged with that. There`s been no body found but if you look at her pattern of behavior -- and Jean, you know this as a lawyer.

There`s a huge difference between being crazy and being nuts. And the situation we see here with Casey is she`s engaging in some pretty nutty behavior. Her daughter is allegedly missing and she`s out there feeling up another woman. You look at these photographs and she`s grabbing another woman`s breast and laughing and having a great time.

This is not the pattern of behavior of a woman who is worried about her daughter. I agree with the caller. I think she`s trying to set up a psych situation and it`s like I used to tell a defense attorney, well, they did this and they -- you know, I smell a psych. I think that`s what she`s going to argue. She`s not going to be successful.

The difference in court is if you know the difference between right and wrong, it`s called the McNaughten rule. If she knew the difference between right and wrong in killing that child, whether it was accidental or not, and covering it up, that`s what`s going to be important, not whether or not she`s behaving inappropriately or she`s doing all these things after the fact to make herself seem like she`s not in the right mind.

You look at these e-mails that are made up apparently. She`s making up e- mails and sending these to herself for people who don`t even exist. That may mean she`s a little nutty. It`s not going to hold up in court as crazy, Jean.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY: The babysitter took her a month ago that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself.

There`s something wrong. I found daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

L. ANTHONY: I`m not going around and around with you. You know that`s pretty pointless. I`m not going to go through -- not going to put everybody else through the same stuff that you`ve been putting the police and everybody else through the last 24 hours and the stuff you`ve been putting mom through for the last four or five weeks.

I`m done with that. So you can tell me what`s going on. Christina would love to talk to you because she thinks that you will tell her what`s going on, frankly, we`re going to find out something, whatever`s going on it`s going be found out so why not do it now. Save yourself.

C. ANTHONY: There`s nothing to find out. There`s absolutely nothing to find out. And that`s even what I told the detectives.

L. ANTHONY: Well, you know, everything that you`re telling them is a lie.

C. ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was do you think any of this would be happening? No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" in for Nancy Grace tonight.

One of the latest things that has come out of all of this is a jail house conversation just released shows Casey is asking for her attorney, asking her brother for her attorney. But yet, when her brother went to the jail today to talk with her, she refused to see her brother.

Let`s go straight out to Natisha Lance, producer for NANCY GRACE, who is live at the scene right now of a vigil taking place in the Orlando area for little Caylee tonight.

What`s the latest, Natisha?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, latest is, Jean, that pretty much everything has cleared away. The Anthonys just drove off. People are still cleaning up a few things. But all in all, it was a pretty successful event. There were nearly 100 people who were here. They were expecting about 150 to 200 and the Anthonys seemed very pleased.

There was a bit of a receiving line at the end where everyone was coming up to them and giving them well wishes, giving them hugs, and just sending their prayers for them.

CASAREZ: Well, that`s wonderful. So I would assume that it would really help them and their emotions because of so -- an influential of so much that is going on with this family.

You know, this is a forensics case and it`s a forensics that have not come back yet from the FBI.

I want to go back to Tom Shamshak, private investigator out of Boston, because one of the forensics that is going to come back, which we don`t know about yet, we haven`t talked about recently, are those gas cans.

Investigators executed a search warrant at the home and took out two gas cans. Now, the family is saying that, yes, Casey broke in, got the gas cans, but she`s done that numerous times because she needed gas and she didn`t have the money.

But, Tom, forensically speaking, what are they going to look for on those gas cans?

TOM SHAMSHAK, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, the first thing they will be looking would be fingerprints, her fingerprints and possibly somebody else`s fingerprints beyond the family members. Those cans could be.

CASAREZ: But if she had already gotten the cans before and she needed gas, her fingerprints would be on the gas, right?

SHAMSHAK: They would, but they`ll be looking for any kind of chemical composition to indicate possibly that it was used in a fire, if you will.

CASAREZ: All right. Let me ask you this. If the gas cans were possibly put in the trunk -- and we know that the cadaver dogs alerted to something in the trunk -- if those gas cans at all touched a body, would they then take those gas cans now privately with the cadaver dogs to see if there was a hit?

SHAMSHAK: Of course, they would. And I`m sure that they would take them to the lab and they would be, again, put under the microscope and analyzed for whatever forensic value may be there.

Then the gas cans might have been put in the trunk to emit an odor to disguise whatever pungent odor. And it`s preposterous to equate a rotting piece of pizza with the decomposing of a body.

CASAREZ: Right, right. Two different things.

Let`s go out to the great state of Texas, Trisha. Good evening, Trisha.

TRISHA, TEXAS RESIDENT: Good evening. My question is, I was wondering, they said that they were waiting for DNA test results to come back today.

Is that something that they would release over the weekend? Or will they hold off until like the beginning of next week now?

CASAREZ: Very good question. Let`s go out to our forensics scientist Dr. Kobilinsky. When would they release those results once they`re in?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, there`s no reason to hold back. If they have the results now, they would have released it now. Perhaps they`ll have it tomorrow. They will be doing the regular DNA analysis to see if that stain was Caylee or they will be doing mitochondrial DNA analysis to examine the hair.

And let`s also remember that there was some soil sample in the trunk of the car as well that they`re going to be looking at microscopically.

CASAREZ: Let`s talk about that soil sample because you can say why is that important. But the fact is next door neighbors said that Casey had borrowed a shovel. She took that shovel back to the home, only had it for about an hour and then returned it.

But are they going to try to possibly match soil, dirt that was found in the car to dirt in the backyard?

KOBILINSKY: Yes. I think, Jean, that`s probably what they will attempt to do. It`s a very simple, inexpensive instrument that is used in the analysis, a polarizing microscope. And they look for the mineral content. And of course, what they`re going to be doing is always checking a question sample against a known sample and if the mineral content matches, they`ve got a match. Sometimes it helps identify the location that that soil sample came from.

So, again, if they had the information, I don`t see why they would hold back. They would have revealed it already. It could be another day or two. And we`ll hear about the DNA results.

CASAREZ: All right. And it`s also important that stain -- there was a presumptive positive result for that stain. That means they believe that there was human fluid right there.

Tonight, now, CNN "HEROES."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.

VIOLA VAUGHN, CHAMPIONING CHILDREN: When a girl reaches the age where she can help in the house, the mother starts keeping this girl at home. That girl begins missing school, missing home work. And she starts to fail. It`s a downward cycle.

My name is Viola Vaughn, I came to Synagogue from Detroit, Michigan. I started a girl`s education and self-sufficiency program.

We take girls who have already failed in school. They learn how to perfect a skill, to produce products for exports.

In the sewing workshops, they make sheets, they make dolls, they make any kind of household linens. Half of the funds goes back to them. The remainder goes into an education program.

Come on, give me a hug. We do this all the time.

They are passing school, they are opening businesses, and I see the success. Right now we already have seven girls in universities.

It`s their program. And they run everything. I`m there just to make sure all the i`s are dotted and the t`s are crossed.

Here I am retired and this is the best job I have ever had in my life.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved. CNN.com/heroes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: And now a look back at the stories making the rest of the headlines this week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police desperately searching for a beautiful little girl, Caylee, after her grandparents reported her missing.

CINDY: My granddaughter has been taken. The babysitter stole her.

CASEY: Her name Zenaida Gonzalez.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police are not ruling out that Casey Anthony may have posed as the alleged babysitter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The person that you dropped Caylee with doesn`t even exist.

CASEY: They haven`t listened to a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) thing I have said.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: I have got news for you, Casey Anthony, the place have listened. Everything you told them trying to help them find your daughter is a lie. Lie after lie after lie.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Dropping the child Caylee off with Zenaida, a big, fat lie.

ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: Why would you choose my name of all the people in Florida because I have nothing to do with them, I have never met them.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: George Anthony asked his daughter where is Caylee.

G. ANTHONY: Dad, she`s safe. You know I got to believe her that she knows where -- everything is OK.

CINDY: Casey is telling us that Caylee`s life is in danger and I believe that.

CASEY: In my guts she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s close to home.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities describe Casey`s claims as a web of deceit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is the key to this investigation. She knows what she did.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Caylee Anthony? Is the 2-year-old Florida girl alive or dead?

WILLIAMS: And are you ready for this? Caylee is alive, she will be at her 3rd birthday party which is this Saturday.

CINDY: She`s coming home.

GRACE: The family planning to have a birthday party for little Caylee whether she`s there or not, a birthday party is going to go down.

CINDY: I`m not giving up just because her birthday is Saturday.

GRACE: Who knows what the truth is.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CASAREZ: Tonight, let`s stop -- start to remember Army Staff Sergeant Christopher Hake, just 26 years from Ennis, Oklahoma. He was a graduate of the University of Oklahoma Bible Academy. Hake was on a second tour of duty.

He loved exchanging e-mails with his family, helping his wife renovate their home, soccer, boating, skiing, even music.

Hake leaves behind parents Peter and Denise, two sisters and two brothers.

Christopher Hake, an American hero.

Thank you so much to all of our guests and to you being at home being with us tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, everybody.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/08/ng.01.html

[mrskub]

NANCY GRACE
Aired August 7, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell! A sworn search warrant just released reveals stunning information against mom, Casey, including lie after lie she told police about Caylee`s disappearance, including her story the baby-sitter called mom, Casey, from a private number and put little Caylee on the phone. We now know from phone records no such call ever took place. She lied.

And we learn the grandmother finds mom, Casey`s, slacks in the abandoned car just before cops arrived. The slacks smell like a dead body. Grandmother, Cindy, unwittingly washes them. Was any forensic clue destroyed forever?

And for the second time in 48 hours, the lead detective and real "CSI" back to the Anthony home, reportedly leaving with a suitcase stuffed with mom, Casey`s, clothing, that evidence now at the FBI crime lab for DNA testing as dive teams join the search for Caylee.

And tonight, the Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments is found and has never even met little Caylee. Arraignment set down August 21 as mom, Casey, enters a plea of not guilty.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has your life been like?

ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, DOESN`T KNOW CAYLEE OR CASEY: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less because they know my name. And so they know my name. Everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news. So I`ve not been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everyone`s just judging me by my name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the case of missing 2- year-old toddler Caylee Anthony. The supposedly baby-sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez, has reportedly has been found, and she says she has never even heard of Casey Anthony or Caylee. In an interview with a local Orlando TV station, Zenaida says her life has been ruined by this and she can`t get a job just because of her name being affiliated with this story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe she has no involvement. My understanding is that this person has come forward, and she said, you know, she doesn`t want to be bothered anymore. She`s sick and tired of people mentioning her name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also happening today, police for the fourth time came to the Anthony home and left with items from inside of the house. Reports say much of what has been collected was from a suitcase Casey Anthony was using up until the time she was arrested for lying to police and failing to report Caylee missing.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I don`t know if you guys have checked through, like, some of the bags and stuff that I have at the house with me, if maybe it was in one of those purses. But I know I kept everything that I had kind of centralized at Tony`s.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In addition, police have released the search warrant executed on the home yesterday detailing how Anthony`s phone records show nobody by the name of Zenaida Gonzalez. And there was no private phone call received on July 15, as Casey Anthony claimed she received. Also included in the search warrant is details of how, before cops arrived, Caylee`s grandmother, Cindy Anthony, removed a pair of pants from Casey Anthony`s car and washed them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, now not seen for six long weeks. Bombshell. A sworn search warrant just released reveals stunning information against mom, Casey, including lie after lie to police about Caylee`s disappearance. In the last hours, the lead detective and a real-life "CSI" back at the Anthony home, leaving with bags of evidence.

And tonight, the Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments is found. And she`s never even heard of little Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you say to Casey Anthony?

GONZALEZ: I mean, why would you choose my name? Of all of the people in Florida, why would you choose my name? You know, if I don`t know you, never met you, why would you choose my name, make my life impossible? You know, right now, my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name, of all people. To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I`ve never met them. You know, I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes -- you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a shocking development, a local Orlando TV station has just completed an interview with the alleged Zenaida Gonzalez that visited the apartment complex where Casey Anthony says she last saw Caylee. Gonzalez goes into detail about how she has been approached by investigators at least three times and has never even met Casey Anthony or Anthony`s 2-year-old daughter, Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My understanding is that she was spoken to twice, and both times, she`s dispelled any concerns that we had as to her involvement with Caylee or Casey. She`s been cooperative. But I cannot officially say that she`s been ruled out because, again, I don`t know that. I have not had a chance to talk to the detectives concerning that.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said that the person that you dropped Caylee with doesn`t even exist.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because -- oh, look, they can`t find her in the Florida database. She`s not just from Florida. If they would actually listen to anything that I would have said to them, they would have had their lead. They maybe could have tracked her down. They haven`t listened to a (DELETED) that I`ve said.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators have just complete obtaining more items from home after Caylee`s grandparents reportedly asked police to come to the home because they located items that might be of interest to them. Another report suggests that detectives have previously collected items from the Anthony home that were from a suitcase that Casey Anthony was using, with many of those items expected to be tested for stains and microscopic evidence at the FBI crime lab.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I`ve got news for you, Casey Anthony. The police have listened to the words you`ve said. It`s all right here in a sworn search warrant. They`ve listened and they have investigated, and they have found out that nearly everything you told them, trying to help them find your daughter, is a lie -- lie after lie after lie.

Two incredibly disturbing lies in the sworn affidavit. Number one, remember mom, Casey, says she spoke to little Caylee, that the baby-sitter called her from a private number, she put little Caylee on the phone for just a minute? She told us so dramatically. They got the phone records. No such phone call ever came in.

Then we learn at the back of this search warrant, a seven-page sworn search warrant, that grandmother, Cindy Anthony, gets to the car before police and finds in it a pair of pinned-striped gray slacks. They belong to mom, Casey, last seen wearing them the last day Caylee was ever seen alive. They smelled like a dead body. Mom, Casey`s, pants smelled like a dead body. Unwittingly, Cindy Anthony washes the pants.

Out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. Tell me the latest.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the latest is, Nancy, that search warrant, of course, executed. We`ve seen what it says. And literally, it is a web of lies, lies about her employment at Universal, of course, Zenaida Gonzalez, you know, as well, dropping the child Caylee off with Zenaida. And I know a little bit later on in the show, we`ll have Louis Bolden from Channel 6, who had an interview with her. Also, that private phone call that was made in the middle of July, July 15 -- there`s no private phone call that came in. At the time, Casey telling...

GRACE: It`s all a lie.

WILLIAMS: ... investigators that she talked to Zenaida and then she also talked to Caylee, and as we know, a big, fat lie. But the big breaking news today down here in central Florida is the fact that Cindy Anthony told investigators about the gray slacks that she found in that Pontiac Sunbird, which was located on the floorboard in the rear. And, some boots and some shoes.

Now, being the dutiful mother that Cindy Anthony is, she took those slacks out of the car, washed them, and then she put them in Casey`s room. That was before investigators got to them. Again, she said that -- she almost reiterated her phone call that she first made to 911, those pants smelled like a dead body. I mean, that is incriminating evidence from the word go.

GRACE: Do we know, Mark Williams, did she launder them at a dry cleaner, or did she wash them in the washing machine?

WILLIAMS: I would assume that she had them just washed there in the washing machine. Living in the neighborhood they have, everybody has a washer and dryer. And it was just a deal where she took the pants and just popped them into the machine, like you or I would do when we`re at home.

GRACE: Out to Anjali Swenton, president and CEO of Scilawforensics, Limited, joining us out of Washington. Anjali, thank you for being with us. Quick question. If there is DNA, such as blood, bodily fluids on a pair of slacks and you put them through the washing machine, does it forever destroy the DNA?

ANJALI SWENTON, PRES. AND CEO SCILAWFORENSICS LTD.: Well, Nancy, that depends. It certainly doesn`t help the situation and doesn`t make the laboratory`s job any easier. But DNA is a pretty robust molecule, and it tends to sort of bro (ph) into material, like, I don`t know if these pants were jeans or...

GRACE: Sounds like gray slacks.

SWENTON: ... corduroy or -- OK. Well, so we don`t know what the material of...

GRACE: Pin-striped. It said pin-striped, which leads me to think maybe it goes with a suit.

SWENTON: OK.

GRACE: So I thought maybe they were laundered.

SWENTON: Well, yes, that was a good question. And I guess we don`t know. But if Cindy just washed them in a regular washing machine with detergent, it is possible that if there was DNA on the pants, that some of the material is still embedded in the fabric. There certainly have been reported cases where attempts have been made to wash an item and DNA was still recovered.

GRACE: How about if they were laundered at a dry cleaner?

SWENTON: I don`t know what specific chemicals a dry cleaner would use, and if they used something different than just a regular detergent, that may have an impact on the recovery. It would have to depend on what specifically was used.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live.

Back out to Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk. Mark, another thing I learned from going over the search warrant with a fine-tooth comb -- you know how we learned at the get-go that mom, Casey, had told police that the baby-sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez, lived at apartment 210, Sawgrass apartments. That`s not all she told them. She went on a wild goose chase and took them to three different locations. It sounds as if she was just driving along the street with cops and goes, Oh, yes, that`s where she lived one time. I took my kid there one time. That place turned out to be a senior citizens living high-rise or apartment where only seniors could live, OK? That was a lie.

Then she took -- she took them on a wild goose chase to this condo complex, and they were driving around, going, Which condo was it you dropped your child off at in the past? They went to three separate ones and finally said, Why can`t you find it? She said, Well, I came here so many times, I don`t remember the address.

So she came so many times, why couldn`t she take them to where Zenaida Gonzalez, the baby-sitter, lived with possibly little Caylee there? It was a huge wild goose chase, ending in Sawgrass apartments.

WILLIAMS: Yes, and that`s -- that`s the big thing. Now, here`s one thing that was revealed this afternoon. Again, you`ll have Louis Bolden from Channel 6 on the show a little bit later on. But in the interview I saw earlier this evening, he had an interview exclusively with Zenaida Gonzalez. They don`t show her face, but they show her -- they have an -- her voice not altered at all.

But she says she has had a tough time. She has no idea why Casey Anthony ever picked her name out. She admits that she was at the apartment complex, the Sawgrass apartment complex, on the 17th of June. But she was at several apartment complexes that day. Investigators have showed her pictures of Casey and Caylee. She has never met nor have never seen these two individuals, either Casey or Caylee. And they`ve talked to her at least three times.

GRACE: Speaking of Zenaida Gonzalez, the Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments has been found and basically cleared. She`s never met Casey or Caylee Anthony, has never even heard of them until now. Take a listen to what Zenaida Gonzalez had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has your life been like?

GONZALEZ: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less because they know my name. And so they know my name. Everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news. So I`ve not been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everyone`s just judging me by my name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you say to Casey Anthony?

GONZALEZ: I mean, why would you choose my name? Of all of the people in Florida, why would you choose my name? You know, if I don`t know you, never met you, why would you choose my name, make my life impossible? You know, right now, my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name, of all people. To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I`ve never met them. You know, I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes -- you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us right now live outside of the Anthony home is our producer, Natisha Lance. Natisha, what can you tell me about real-life CSI and the lead investigator on the case showing up at the Anthony home today? What did they take from the home?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, CSI did come again today, this time without a search warrant. They came at about 11:00 this morning. Lead investigator Sergeant John Allen (ph) was here, as well as a mediator of sorts, who was his boss. He said that he was trying to kind of mediate and massage the relationship that has gone a little bit off track.

As to what they`ve taken, we don`t know exactly at this point, but we think that they probably took those slacks that you were talking about earlier.

GRACE: It`s my understanding -- to Nikki Pierce with WDBO -- that they took items, clothing items that had been in a suitcase there in the Anthony home, all clothing belonging -- most all clothing belonging to mom, Casey, Anthony.

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: In that search warrant, that`s correct. In that search warrant, there was a list clothing -- three different pairs of pants, several shirts and skirts. They didn`t specify the color of those, so I don`t know if the gray pants were included, but I would certainly assume so.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. We`re taking your calls live. Joining us tonight, Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor out of Atlanta, Richard Herman, veteran defense attorney out of New York, and defense attorney, veteran trial lawyer Peter Odom joining us out of Atlanta.

To you Eleanor Dixon. Weigh in.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I think that those pants are going to be key, but also the other clothing. It`s not just the pants. They`re going to take the clothing...

GRACE: You`ve seen the return on the search warrant? What did you learn?

DIXON: Exactly. We learned the shirts that they`ve taken, skirts and pants, as well, and jeans, too. So all of those pieces of clothing may yield some type of forensic evidence.

GRACE: Odom?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, even if they find DNA on those pants, remember that these two lived together. That DNA -- the young kid`s, Caylee`s, DNA is going to be all over that house. So that`s not necessarily going to tell you anything about what happened to her.

GRACE: Well, that`s a legitimate point, Peter Odom. But Richard Herman, this is a hypothetical to combat what Odom just said. If you find blood on the slacks that Casey -- mom, Casey -- had on the last day Caylee was seen alive, that would be bombshell evidence. I mean, you`ve got to look at not only the fact that they lived together, but you`d have to look at where the DNA`s found, what type of DNA it is, the context in which it comes to be on the article.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. But like Mr. Odom just said, you know, the last day they saw her was June 15. This is now august 7. News teams, the public, press have been in that house. I think that the crime scene`s been corrupted.

GRACE: Oh, please, Richard...

HERMAN: I`m not so excited...

GRACE: ... do you really think...

HERMAN: ... about it, Nancy...

GRACE: ... the press has been digging through her clothes closet? I don`t think so.

HERMAN: I don`t know, but that crime scene has not been preserved.

GRACE: All right, Johnnie Cochran!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was shown the photo, and she did not recognize this person. My understanding is that this person has come forward and she said, you know, she doesn`t want to be bothered anymore. She`s sick and tired of people mentioning her name.

We believe she has no involvement. I think that we don`t know exactly how it is that her name, was it coincidence, or -- but we don`t think that she`s involved at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What has your life been like?

GONZALEZ: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less because they know my name. And so they know my name. Everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news. So I`ve not been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everyone`s just judging me by my name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, the bombshell evidence found in a sworn search warrant just released by Orange County sheriff`s office.

Also tonight, there`s been a big rumor swirling as to the paternity of little Caylee. Joining us tonight, attorney Brian Crews. He`s joining us out of Orlando, Florida. He`s the attorney for the family of Jesus Ortiz (ph), rumored to be the father, the bio father of little Caylee. Brian, thank you for being with us.

BRIAN CREWS, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF MAN RUMORED TO BE CAYLEE`S DAD: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Brian, how did this report originate?

CREWS: Nancy, we don`t know. It`s pure speculation and conjecture that Jesus Ortiz was the father of missing Caylee. So the family asked me to come tell the nation this and that they absolutely don`t have any information how this got started.

GRACE: Well, let me ask you this, Brian. Didn`t they go to high school together?

CREWS: They did go to high school together, but does that make him the father?

GRACE: And he did die in a car crash? He did die in a car crash?

CREWS: He sure did, about a year ago.

GRACE: Right. I think those two pieces were put together, and two plus two ended up equaling five. So the family is definitely, without a doubt, stating he is not the bio father?

CREWS: They`ve never met the mother. They`ve never met Caylee. They just have no information. They don`t have any other information about this

GRACE: Are they being harassed about this?

CREWS: Oh, certainly. The media has been there day in and day out. And they`re -- they`re being brought in this, much like that other lady was brought into it, and they don`t want to be part of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had gone to the apartment and she had signed the guest card, and so that`s where we felt that we needed to speak to her a couple of times. And my understanding is that she was spoken to twice, and both times, she`s dispelled any concerns that we had as to her involvement with Caylee or Casey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines. To Elizabeth in Alabama. Hi, Elizabeth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s really good to speak to you.

GRACE: Likewise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With all of the reward money, if little Caylee was alive, don`t you think someone would have turned it in?

GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. A quarter of a million dollar, $225,000, almost a quarter million dollars, reward being offered, 1-800-423-TIPS.

Out to Sergeant Scott Haines with Santa Rosa County, Florida. In your experience, with a reward this big, if she was out there and somebody knew, wouldn`t they come forward?

SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA CO., FLORIDA: Absolutely. I work actually closely with central Florida Crime Line. I think the reward would be present (ph) whether they find her alive or dead. I just think the only person who knows this information is the mother.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOUIS BOLDEN, REPORTER, WKMG: What has your life been like?

ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less, they know my name. And so they know my name, everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news.

So I haven`t been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everybody is just judging me by my name.

BOLDEN: What would you say to Casey Anthony?

GONZALEZ: Why me? Why would you choose my name of all of the people in Florida? Why would you choose my name? You know, because I don`t know you, never met you. Why would you choose my name and make my life impossible? You know right now my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name of all people.

To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I never met them. You know I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes, you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: The Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments has been located. There you see an interview with her. Long story short, she`s never even heard of little Caylee or mom Casey Anthony.

Out to Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Dealbreakers" -- Dr. Bethany, I`m sure by now you`ve had a chance to read this affidavit, this search warrant, a sworn search warrant where police, the sheriff`s office really reveals a lot of their investigation. They`re all over it.

This woman leads police along in an extremely bold manner. For instance, she says the outcry witnesses. Under the law, when a crime has occurred, the first few people you tell about it as a victim are called outcry witnesses. She says she tells three people at Universal Studios where she works. She gets in the car with the police. They already know she`s lying. They put her on a speakerphone. And they ask her again, "You work at Universal?"

Everybody in the room hears her lying. She goes into this long story about working there, how she these other co-workers. They go OK, let`s go over there. They go get her. She gets in the car. They drive all the way over there, Bethany. They get out of car. They get to security, and the security guy says, well, who do you work for?

She gives a name. Security guy says, there`s no such person here. They let them on in with the police. They get out of the car. They walk through the complex. They go into a building. They start walking all the way down the hall.

The search warrant says she walks with a purposeful stride like she knows where she`s going. Just before they get to the door, Bethany, she goes, I don`t work, you all, I was fired a couple of years ago.

That`s very bold, Bethany.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Do you know what comes through again and again is that Casey is a bully. She uses words like weapons. She uses them as objects to control other people.

Did you hear the jailhouse call? How she spoke to her own mother using the F word? Whenever friends show empathy towards the child, she says, oh, honey, whoa, whoa, whoa. You shouldn`t have called me. She fingers innocent people like Zenaida Gonzalez.

That bullying behavior -- and we could think of a lying as a way to preserve herself but I actually thinks she gets a great deal of satisfaction out of it. I think that`s why her whole family is going along with her because she has bullied them for so long.

And what does this tell us about how her little girl met her demise? Did she shake her and shake her? Did she leave her in a hot car to punish her? Did she leave her in a hot bathtub? Did she turn her over to some child abuser?

This is consistent a borderline personality disorder where there`s ragefulness, impulsivity, lack of empathy towards other people including her own child, disregard and violation of the rights of others. And I think there`s a great deal of satisfaction she`s getting.

GRACE: You know, now that you have mentioned it, Dr. Bethany, I would say satisfaction is something that you hear in her phone calls from the jail.

MARSHALL: Yes.

GRACE: I`m hearing in her ear where -- right now we`re being joined by reporter Lewis Bolden. Bolden is from CNN affiliate WKMG there in Orlando. And out of everybody, he manages to find the Zenaida Gonzalez, the babysitter that mom Casey tries to finger to police, saying this is the woman that she left her daughter with.

All right, out to you, Louis Bolden, joining us from WKMG -- Louis, how`d you find her? I know that the police had already spoken to her, but how did you find her?

BOLDEN: Well, Nancy, I`ll tell you it was not easy but this is something that we -- our entire news department has been working on for three weeks since this story broke. And you know that`s -- we`re all reporters and that`s what we do is investigate.

And so this is not something that fell into our laps today. Again, we`ve been working on this for three weeks, but today, finally, all of the pieces came together. And we were able to track her down and get that interview.

GRACE: Louis, how has this whole thing affected her life?

BOLDEN: Nancy, you have no idea what she has been going through. She has a MySpace page. She says she had been threatened on her MySpace page. She has been interviewed by detectives a number of times. And she is just, basically, trying to prove that she had nothing to do with this.

She has children of her own. She has very small children. She`s having to explain to her young children why they are staying their mother`s name, not just on local news but on national news night after night after night. So it has not been a good situation for her.

GRACE: Louis Bolden, WKMG, tracks down Zenaida Gonzalez. She says she knows nothing about mom Casey or little Caylee.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOLDEN: What has your life been like?

ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: Oh, horrible. Horrible. My name is -- because it`s not so much that they know my face, it`s more or less, they know my name. And so they know my name, everywhere I go, they`re obviously insinuating that I did something wrong because my name is so much in the news.

So I haven`t been able to get a job. I haven`t been able do much of nothing because everybody is just judging me by my name.

BOLDEN: What would you say to Casey Anthony?

GONZALEZ: Why me? Why would you choose my name of all of the people in Florida? Why would you choose my name? You know, because I don`t know you, never met you. Why would you choose my name and make my life impossible? You know right now my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name of all people.

To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I never met them. You know I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes, you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Mr. Bolden, how many children does Gonzalez have already?

BOLDEN: She has two young daughters. She has a total of four children. And she has two young daughters. And I`m glad you brought that up because one of the things she said to detectives is, Nancy, I have children of my own. I have daughters so I don`t have to take someone else`s daughter.

GRACE: I don`t need to steal another child. I`ve got four at home, waiting for me right now. Now the woman can`t even get a job.

What did she tell police, Mr. Bolden?

BOLDEN: She has had to prove that she had nothing to do with this. I mean she has told detectives from day one, she has never seen Casey Anthony. She`s never seen Caylee Anthony. She had never heard those names.

And I just want to point out that detectives showed up at her door asking her these questions before this hit the news. And so she had no clue who these people were. Now, of course, she has seen Casey Anthony on television. She has seen Caylee Anthony. And she still maintains she has never seen them.

I showed her a picture of the car that Casey was driving. She said she had never seen that car. So she has just been trying to explain and prove.

GRACE: Right.

BOLDEN: . that she had nothing do with it.

GRACE: And clear her name.

With us, everyone, Louis Bolden from WKMG, who tracked down the Zenaida Gonzalez, attached to Sawgrass apartments.

Out to the lines, Sarah in Pennsylvania. Hi, Sarah.

SARAH, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I was just wondering, wasn`t it initially reported that Casey was also -- she disappeared for about a month presumably with Caylee? I`m just wondering why didn`t Cindy report them both missing at that time?

GRACE: You know that is an interesting question. And you are correct.

Nikki Pierce with WBDO, Cindy Anthony has explained it. What did you -- what is your reporting on that?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, initially, as you can hear in the 911 call, Cindy does say she`s been missing for 30 days and I found her. But I haven`t found my granddaughter.

What we understand is that she left the house and was staying with various people including with her boyfriend and her boyfriend has been fully cooperative with police and said that Caylee was never there or rarely there.

GRACE: And, of course, to answer the call, to Sarah in Pennsylvania, Casey -- mom Casey would call into her mother repeatedly, would text her and call her, and always have a seemingly legitimate excuse -- oh, Caylee`s already gone to bed, oh she`s at the beach, oh she`s at the amusement park with the nanny. She always had an excuse why not to put Caylee onto the phone.

Cindy Anthony became suspicious at a certain point and started asking questions. Hence, the 911 call.

Quick break, everybody. We`re taking your calls live.

As we go to break tonight, a special get-well to my brother Mac. Here he is in Times Square coming to visit the show. And here he is with baby Lucy, the first time she ever wore a boa. He gave it to her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Did you ever call the babysitter on your -- on your cell phone, ever received a call from the babysitter on your cell phone number?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I most definitely did.

L. ANTHONY: Can you give me any day or anything, whenever you think you may have received that?

C. ANTHONY: Any specific day? God, a lot of the times it was through text messages, so, I don`t know, the number would show up even on that.

L. ANTHONY: OK.

C. ANTHONY: I can`t think of any specifics. I mean, my days are all thrown together. I at least know what the day is today but as far as stuff form the last couple of months, I have no exact, you know, time or date.

BOLDEN: What would you say to Casey Anthony?

GONZALEZ: Why me? Why would you choose my name of all of the people in Florida? Why would you choose my name? You know, because I don`t know you, never met you. Why would you choose my name and make my life impossible? You know right now my life is very impossible because she chose to say my name of all people.

To her family, I don`t know. I don`t know what to tell them because I have nothing to do with them. I never met them. You know I wish them the best of luck. I hope the baby comes, you know, they find her and she`s OK, you know, and she comes back home.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF CAYLEE ANTHONY: I`m going to do whatever it takes to take advantage of the media and if it continues to drag our family through the mud and whatever, as long as Caylee`s picture`s out there every day and that picture gets engrained on everybody`s brain and they look, as long as they don`t give up, she`s coming home.

She may come home this afternoon. She may come home tomorrow. I hope that she`s home by Saturday. If she`s not, you know what, I`m not giving up just because her birthday`s Saturday.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: That was this week. Caylee is not at home, obviously. A bombshell day, search warrant reveals police line of thinking their theory on the case. We see a web of lies created by mom, Casey Anthony, in the so-called search for her daughter.

Let`s go out to the lines. Christy in Washington state, hi, Christie.

CHRISTY, WASHINGTON STATE RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

CHRISTY: I just wanted to say it`s wonderful to talk to you and congratulations on your beautiful babies and I just -- we just love you down here.

GRACE: Thank you, thank you so much, and thank you for calling in. What`s your question?

CHRISTY: I just want to know, can Cindy Anthony be charged with obstructing justice or worse for taking the pants and washing them?

GRACE: I doubt it. I doubt it. But before I throw that to the lawyers, to Christy in Washington state, page 4 of this sworn search warrant, it states the grandparents` thinking. It says, point blank, mom, Casey`s father George, stresses his concern. His daughter is holding back information. He and his wife, the defendant`s mother, quote, "fear something may have happened to Caylee."

Let`s unleash the lawyers to answer that question. Eleanor Dixon, felony prosecutor, Richard Herman out of New York, and Peter Odom, veteran defense attorney out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.

Eleanor, you first.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I don`t think she can be charged unless you can totally link something that she did to hinder the investigation.

GRACE: Richard?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, that`s absolutely right, Nancy. But you know I`m not so comfortable with the mother and father in this case. I`ve got to tell you just a gut reaction here but from the mountain of lies.

GRACE: Wait, I`ve got to see Herman. You`ve got a problem with the grandparents?

HERMAN: Yes, I`ve got a little problem with them.

GRACE: And you don`t have a problem with the mother Casey?

HERMAN: I have a major problem with the mother, Nancy, from the -- not reporting her child kidnapped for 30 days. The mountain of lies to this Zenaida Gonzalez. You have a mental impaired defect defense here. It has nothing borderline with all due respect to Dr. Bethany. This girl is nuts. And she`s screaming she`s nut little to the world and this is a mountain -- this defense is enormous in this case.

GRACE: Peter Odom, being a liar does not equal a mental defect under the law.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, no, there are good liars, there are bad liars, but then are there pathological liar and she`s a pathological liar.

GRACE: That`s not.

ODOM: That mean that there`s a.

GRACE: That doesn`t rise to insanity.

ODOM: Well, it might. And certainly she lies about things she doesn`t even have to lie about. She lies about things that are easily going to be refuted. This woman has some kind of a mental problem going on.

GRACE: I agree that she`s a liar.

But, Eleanor, yes/no. Being a pathological liar, does it rise to a mental defect defense under the law?

DIXON: No, of course, it doesn`t, Nancy.

GRACE: Of course not.

DIXON: And you, of course.

GRACE: OK. Thanks guys.

DIXON: . you expect the defense to say that.

GRACE: Thanks, guys, thanks for nothing.

HERMAN: OK.

GRACE: Back out to the lines, Diane in Pennsylvania. Hi, Diane.

DIANE, PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?

DIANE: I love your show and I love you. I have.

GRACE: Thank you.

DIANE: I have a question. Why was that the only piece of clothing that the grandmother chose to choose?

GRACE: Interesting. Back to Mark Williams with WNDB. I have looked at this, and I recall the pin-striped slacks, a pair of boots. What other clothing items were in the car?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, there were a pair of boots and a pair of shoes in the car in the back floor board area right alongside those gray slacks.

Now let me reiterate that the one thing that Cindy Anthony said, she opened up the car. She saw the gray slacks and it smelled like a dead body as she said in her 911 calls --initially to police. And that`s why she washed the slacks. So that`s -- that`s why she washed the slacks.

GRACE: I`m reading directly from the sworn search warrant.

Cynthia, that`s the grandmother, explains she removed a pair of gray dressed slacks from the back seat area of the car, reportedly on the rear floor board of the vehicle, with a pair of boots and a pair of shoes that reportedly belonged to Casey.

According to grandma, she removed the pants and washed them due to the fact that they smelled like the car. As she described it to us on the 911 call, like a dead body. She put the washed clothing in Casey`s bedroom.

Bye-bye forensic evidence. So there were no other clothes to wash, to Diane in Pennsylvania.

To Brandy in California, hi Brandy.

BRANDY, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy. I just love you. Thanks for asking the tough questions.

GRACE: Thank you.

BRANDY: The question is, does anybody know if there is a life insurance policy on little Caylee?

GRACE: Excellent question.

BRANDY: Because she always go broke all the time, you know.

GRACE: Nikki Pierce, what about it? Nikki joining us from WDBO. Life insurance policy?

PIERCE: We haven`t heard anything about that, although anything is possible at this point.

GRACE: You know what, Nikki, bottom line this girl was siphoning cars -- gas for her car, so I doubt she could keep up the premiums on an insurance policy.

PIERCE: Probably not.

GRACE: So bottom line, I would say the answer is no.

To Sergeant Haines, what do you think they were trying to get from the clothing they took from the home today?

SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL: I think the main thing they were trying to get is some type of trace evidence and that`s going to be analyzed. One of the things is the smell of this body was supposed to be from a pizza, and if they noticed gas cans and things like that, how come they didn`t notice the pizza?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight out to the lines, Alana in Kentucky. Hi, Alana.

ALANA, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, you`re my hero.

GRACE: I don`t deserve that, but thank you for saying it. What`s your question, dear?

ALANA: I wonder, if the grandmother is a nurse and the grandfather is a former police officer, wouldn`t she have known better than washing those pants?

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, you know when love somebody, love is blind.

MARSHALL: It is. You know Cindy was the first one to implicate her daughter when she called 911. She said the car smelled like a dead body, she`s taken my daughter, she won`t tell me where she is. Then she turns around and blames the media and says that the media is blaming her daughter. So clearly the mother has a great deal of denial. It`s very difficult for her probably.

GRACE: Well.

MARSHALL: . to admit she raised such a disturbed daughter and...

GRACE: You know, Dr. Bethany?

MARSHALL: Yes?

GRACE: The most disturbing thing in this search warrant as we go to break, the lies about the phone call from little Caylee it never happened.

Everybody, let`s stop for a moment and remember, Army Private First Class Tyler Smith, 22, Bethel, Maine, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Good Conduct Medal. Loyal to friends and family, would give you the shirt off his back. Loved industrial arts, restoring cars, leaves behind parents Martin and Wendy, widow and high school sweetheart Heather.

Tyler Smith, American hero.

Thanks to our guest but especially to you for being with us. And tonight a special good night from Georgia friends of the show Michelle, Tish, whose husband is a firefighter, Michelle`s husband, five tours in Iraq, Erin and Angela, fiance in Qatar.

And tonight, I ask you again to please remember in your prayers defense attorney Sandy Schiff in the fight of a lifetime, set for a bone marrow transplant next week and her battle against leukemia.

Sandy, stay strong.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/07/ng.01.html

[mrskub]

NANCY GRACE
Aired August 6, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last hours, real-life "CSI." Florida crime scene investigators with a search warrant go back to the Anthony home, leaving with bags of evidence. In a new twist, dive teams now join the search for little Caylee.

And a bizarre scenario now emerges. Did mom, Casey, actually pose as the mystery baby-sitter who kidnapped little Caylee? Anthony facing hard jail time after the state hands down felony charges on child neglect and lying to investigators.

The grandparents now admit it was mom, Casey, who broke into the family toolshed, stealing gas cans, those cans now taken as evidence. All the while, the clock ticking on DNA testing on hair and fluid found in mom, Casey`s trunk. And a disturbing development. Mom, Casey, now breaks her silence, announcing from the jail little Caylee`s life is in danger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news in the case of missing 2-year-old Florida toddler, Caylee Anthony. Crime scene technicians and local investigators have just finished executing a search warrant on the Anthony home today. Reports say authorities entered the home with a toolbox and latex gloves and left with four to six bags of evidence. This is the third time authorities came to the house, last time seizing gas cans that George Anthony now admits were stolen by his daughter, Casey Anthony, back in late June.

Cindy Anthony also has told local media that Casey Anthony says Caylee`s life is in danger and the grandmother is worried about the whereabouts of little Caylee. All this while just a few days ago, George Anthony said daughter Casey Anthony assured him that Caylee was safe.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: She knows who has her daughter. She knows her daughter`s safe.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: She`s coming home. She might come home this afternoon. She may come home tomorrow. I hope she`s home by Saturday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: WKMG is also reporting that police haven`t ruled out that Anthony actually posed as the baby-sitter, visiting the apartment complex, claiming to be Zenaida Gonzalez.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, now not seen for six long weeks. In the last hours, real-life "CSI" back to the Anthony home, leaving with bags of evidence as a bizarre scenario now emerges. Did mom, Casey, actually pose as the mystery baby-sitter who kidnapped little Caylee? And in a disturbing development, mom, Casey, now breaks her silence, announcing from the jail little Caylee`s life is in danger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is Caylee Anthony? Is the 2-year-old Florida girl alive or dead? And is her mother hiding anything about her disappearance? This is what Casey says happened. On June 9, she dropped Caylee off at a baby-sitter. When she returned, Casey (SIC) and the sitter were gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time you saw Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY: I know for a fact it`s June 15 because the little video clips that were shot, that`s playing over and over again, I shot that when she was visiting my father.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authorities say the apartment where she claimed the sitter lived had been vacant for months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking today is a report from WKMG that police are not ruling out that Casey Anthony may have posed as the alleged baby- sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez. Police have said all along there is no evidence Zenaida Gonzalez exists. They describe Casey`s claims as a web of deceit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has the right to not talk about it. But certainly, as a mother, I would hope that she would be willing to give us whatever information, you know, that she had to help us find her child.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: CSI technicians and Orange County sheriff`s investigators were at the Anthony home today, executing a search warrant. Police entered the home reportedly wearing latex gloves, and after two-and- a-half hours left with four to six bags of evidence from the Anthonys` residence, this all happening while Cindy Anthony just revealed that her daughter, Casey Anthony, had said that Caylee`s life is in danger.

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey`s telling us that Caylee`s life is in danger. If we go in there someone thinks that she`s going to tell me something more, then her life`s in danger. And I believe that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, I think you hit it on the head right off the back. Crime scene techs were in east Orange County this afternoon, from the Orange County sheriff`s office, armed with a search warrant. They got there around 2:00 o`clock -- 2:30 this afternoon at the Anthony household. They let the crime scene techs in. They had latex gloves. They also had what appeared to be a tackle box. But right now, the only thing that they were fishing for was any evidence they could find inside the house.

Nancy, they left at 5:30 this afternoon, headed back to the SO carrying four to six bags. Nobody knows what`s inside those bags as of yet.

The other breaking news is Channel 6 here in town, WKMG, the CBS affiliate, says that Casey may be the mystery baby-sitter. Today they were out at the Sawgrass apartment complex, where they took a look at a guest card that whoever -- whether it was Casey or Casey posing as Zenaida Gonzalez, filled out this guest card, looking for an apartment. That happened just a couple of days -- two days after little Caylee went missing.

GRACE: Uh! Uh! Uh! Uh! Uh! Uh! Wait. Wait. Wait. You said two days. Now, remember, the video we were just showing in our show open was the 15th, Father`s Day. And remember, the Anthonys saw her the morning of the 16th.

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, she was there the 17th, at the apartment complex, from what we understand, what Channel 6 is reporting. Initially, they thought it was April, but now it was June 17. And whoever was there, whether it be Casey or Zenaida Gonzalez or whoever, had very poor penmanship. So that was a thing. So the officers were out there today. They took a look at, apparently, the guest card. They did not take anything. Spent two hours today at the apartment complex. Also...

GRACE: Oh, wait, wa-wa-wa-wait!

WILLIAMS: OK.

GRACE: You said that the investigators at the apartment complex -- and everybody, we`re talking about a new and bizarre scenario that has emerged, where cops are investigating the theory that Casey Anthony, mom, Casey, actually posed -- now, this would be one day after Casey is last seen alive by anybody that knows her. One day later, did Mom, Casey, show up at this apartment complex, posing as the baby-sitter, Zenaida Gonzalez, fill out a guest card like she`s looking at an apartment, put Zenaida Gonzalez`s name on there, go see the apartment, and then, Mark Williams, take police later to that apartment and say, That`s where I left the baby? Is that what I`m gathering?

WILLIAMS: That`s what we`re gathering, as well. However, that apartment since that time has -- nobody ever took occupancy of that apartment, and it had been vacant for six months. So that`s the latest on that. Apparently, investigators, of course, comparing the penmanship...

GRACE: This is apartment -- sorry, Mark.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: We`re showing -- we were showing you just then the apartment we`re talking about, there at Sawgrass apartments. And you said police didn`t take anything with them when they left. What I`d like to know is, did they take anything with them when they went? In other words, a photo lineup. Certainly, whoever took the baby-sitter to the vacant apartment for the potential resident to look at it would be able to identify whether it was Casey.

WILLIAMS: Yes. So true. We have no information if they took any sort of a photo lineup to the management of the apartment complex or not. They`re still kind of remaining tight-lipped on this entire deal since it`s basically freshly breaking from midafternoon today.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. CSI crime scene investigators from Florida -- you`re seeing the footage right there -- just leaving the Anthony home. They went in with their tackle box, which is basically all their equipment that they need to get forensic evidence, such as fingerprints, hair, fiber, you name it, and a lot of other tools of the trade. They went pursuant to a search warrant.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, veteran trial lawyer and author Mickey Sherman, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" Excellent question. And Paul Batista, also a veteran trial lawyer, author of "Death`s Witness."

To both of you gentlemen, welcome. Mickey Sherman, bottom line, they went with a search warrant, and what that means is they have to outline to a judge what it is specifically they`re looking for, so they`ve got a case theory.

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, but don`t you think the threshold to get a search warrant is pretty low here? You`ve got a missing child. You`ve got a woman who`s made some inaccurate or perhaps lying statements. I mean, they don`t need proof beyond a reasonable doubt. They don`t even really need a heck of a lot of probable cause. I think any judge is going to sign a warrant if there`s the remotest possibility that they may find some evidence. So I don`t read that much into it.

GRACE: I don`t have a problem with that, Mickey. That`s not my point. I don`t have a problem with that. You`re right, the threshold for a search warrant is fairly low.

Paul Batista, I`m going to have you have a swing at this one. What I`m saying is this tells me police are not viewing this as a kidnap, as a missing person case.

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they`re obviously (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: They`re viewing this as a homicide case, and they have a specific theory of the case because they can name in a search warrant the specific items they`re looking for.

BATISTA: They can, and they can go in there and search for it, and they have some reason to believe that what they`re looking for is there. And sure, we`ve always known that this is, at its heart, a murder investigation, and that is precisely what they`re pursuing all these six or seven hours they`ve spent at the Anthony home in Florida.

GRACE: Let`s go straight out to the scene. Joining us, Natisha Lance, one of our show producers. She is standing outside the Anthony home. Natisha, welcome. What can you tell us about CSI at the Anthony home today?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, just a few hours ago, Nancy, CSI, investigators, as well as CSI technicians were at the Anthony home right behind me here. They were here for about two-and-a-half hours, left the scene with five to six bags of evidence.

And if you recall also, CSI investigators were at the home last week getting those gas cans from the shed that you talked about earlier. When the investigators came out of the home, they were very tight-lipped, didn`t want to give any information, just reiterated over again that they are searching for Caylee, doing everything that they can to find Caylee and bring her home.

GRACE: Natisha, I know you`re saying they came out with five to six bags of evidence. What did they take in, a tackle box and what else?

LANCE: Well, they were armed with a tackle box. They had their latex gloves. They came in with a black sheet of fiber. We`re not sure exactly what it was. But they came in with all of their investigative tools.

GRACE: OK. Let`s talk about the black sheet. I want to go out to Vince Miller joining us from Phoenix, Arizona. He`s the vice president and chief technical officer at Chromosomal Labs. Vince, thank you for being with us. With the sheet, do you believe that would be used to pick up fibers?

VINCE MILLER, CHROMOSOMAL LABS: Definitely could be. Depends on what they`re actually using it for, but yes, it could be.

GRACE: What else could it be used for?

MILLER: It could be picking up hairs.

GRACE: OK, hair or fiber. I wonder if they were looking for fingerprints, as well. The tackle box sounds like what my investigators used to carry to get -- to carry their fingerprint tools with them.

Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. Out to Lisa in Florida. Hi, Lisa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. I just wanted to say that I understand that the grandmother was concerned when she was first calling into 911. However, I don`t find she`s so concerned about her Caylee anymore. I think the whole family is in on this precarious situation. I don`t know what`s going on myself, but they just don`t seem to have the emotions that I would have. If my grandchild was missing in any way, I would be hysterical every single day in front of the media. I don`t care if it would drive me crazy or not. I would be out.

Now, I heard the tape with the brother and her, and it seemed like the two of them were talking in code, trying to figure out whether or not maybe the police were on to them or not. Did it seem like that to you?

GRACE: Well, I think they definitely were talking in code. I think they were -- definitely knew that they were being recorded. So I don`t know that the family is on in on some big conspiracy, but they do appear, at least at this juncture, to be totally behind mom, Casey Anthony, and her story. They absolutely are not looking under any other avenue, such as that she is guilty in the disappearance of her child.

Now, I want to go out to Leslie Austin, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. What do you make of it?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, I think absolutely no one is telling the truth here, and it`s very hard to make head or tail of it. What really strikes me is how much the family is talking. And if they were really concerned, they would stop telling stories and stop arguing their side and their case and just focus exclusively on trying to find Caylee. That`s what makes me suspicious. They`re speaking too much and telling way too many stories to be believed.

GRACE: The photos you`re seeing right now, Dr. Leslie Austin -- take a look at this. Everyone, we are showing photos that, according to multiple sources, were taken after Caylee goes missing, the photographer who took the photos, as well as fellow partiers at the club -- this is the night of the "hot body" contest. This is several days after little Caylee goes missing. That is mom, Casey Anthony, in the blue dress on the left.

AUSTIN: Very suspicious. This is not a woman who looks like she`s in grief or major concern for her child. This is a woman who wants to party, which makes me wonder, Did she participate in trying to give her daughter away or sell her or give her to a relative, give her to somebody? Was she involved in harming her? This is not a woman who`s concerned.

GRACE: Very quickly, Dr. Austin, back to Lisa in Florida`s question regarding whether the Anthony family is in on it. I think they`re in on it, to use her term, to the extent that they have all agreed they`re going to support Casey Anthony`s story. I don`t think it had anything to do with the child`s disappearance.

AUSTIN: Yes, absolutely, and nobody in your family wants to believe that your own family member killed their own daughter. That`s really heinous to think of, and very horrific. So I can see that they`d want to side with her until proven otherwise.

GRACE: Back to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by outside the Anthony home. Natisha, very quickly, the family, the Anthony family, the grandparents finally break down and admit she stole the gas cans. Who cares? What significance are the gas cans, except she had to break a lock and steal the gas cans and then lie about it.

LANCE: That`s right, Nancy. The Anthony family -- George Anthony did an interview yesterday, and he said that Casey Anthony is responsible for stealing those gas cans.

GRACE: But why? What significance, Natisha? What does it matter to the missing persons investigation?

LANCE: Well, Cindy Anthony is saying that she feels that it`s irrelevant to the investigation. However, for some reason, police feel that they could actually be significant to the investigation.

GRACE: OK. Mark...

LANCE: They took those gas cans, looking for...

GRACE: Let me ask Mark Williams. Mark, what`s the police theory as to why stolen gas cans full of gas have anything to do with a missing child investigation?

WILLIAMS: The reason that they took the gas cans was just the fact they wanted to see if Caylee was close by those gas cans prior to her disappearance. And that`s why...

GRACE: They must have let the cadaver dogs hit on them, Mark.

WILLIAMS: Sure. Sure. And you know, the cadaver dogs hit in the back yard several times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Every focus that`s on Casey takes effort away from Caylee. All the energy used on running these tabloid pictures, and you know, people calling in and all that -- they could be out looking for my granddaughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: No other missing child has that national coverage. I`m going to do whatever it takes to take advantage of the media. I`ve gotten burned by all of you guys. There`s not a whole lot of people that we trust. George and Lee and I are getting threatening letters, threatening phone calls, threatening e-mails. People come out of the woodwork that are so-called friends. This community is an awesome community. Everybody else right now is -- you know, they`ve shown their true colors. And the bottom line is, it`s all about Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Where is Caylee Anthony? 1-800-423-TIPS. You can see that number down at the bottom of our screen.

Straight out to the calls. Angie in Virginia. Hi, Angie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is it possible that Casey`s family knows that she has harmed Caylee and they could be working for police to try to get her to confess to them?

GRACE: Interesting theory. Let`s go out to Ron Shindel, former NYPD. What about that theory?

RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Well, at this point, Nancy, you can`t knock out any theory. All theories are possible, at this point. They`re treating it like it`s a homicide investigation in many aspects, but they also need to bring in all types of theories not only to prove them, but also to start disprove them. They have to start narrowing their investigation so they can come to some really concrete information and find a path they can go down.

GRACE: Absolutely correct.

Joining us tonight, Ernie Alan, the president for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Ernie, it`s great to see you. You know, time is crucial. Every hour that passes matters. Explain.

ERNIE ALLEN, NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Well, it really is. Time is in the enemy in these kinds of investigations, and the 30-day delay here hurt badly. We know in the most serious cases, when children are abducted and murdered, that in 76 percent of those cases, the child is dead within the first three hours. So you have to move now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that there are Zenaida Gonzalezes out there. The Zenaida Gonzalez that has been talked (ph) to use by Casey is non-existent to this point. What we need to do is receive information from Casey, and nothing but the truth. We need that information. Caylee`s birthday is on Saturday, on Saturday the 9th. She deserves nothing less than to be home with her family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Is there a moment that you`ve ever thought for a second that maybe Casey had a hand in Caylee`s disappearance?

CINDY ANTHONY: You know, we went through a lot of scenarios with the authorities, accidents and stuff, and none of it makes sense because why go through all of this? Why put us through all of that? It doesn`t make sense. She wouldn`t do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Today, crime scene investigators go back to the Anthony home and leave with bags of evidence. They go in with all of their forensic gear, including black cloth. With black cloth, even blood diluted can be detected. We are taking your calls live.

Very quickly, to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, this scenario that Mark Williams has reported on is incredible, that the day after Caylee is last seen alive by anyone that knows her, the mom may have shown up pretending to be Zenaida Gonzalez at Sawgrass apartments to pretend she was looking at a vacant apartment, and then later on leads police there to show them the apartment where Zenaida Gonzalez lives?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Police have not ruled out that possibility. They do say that most of the half-truths and the lies that she told in the initial report had some sort of kernel of truth, so it wouldn`t be surprising if this actually happened. And as Mark Williams said, investigators were back out there today. No one knows exactly why, but it could have been with a photo array to see if anyone recognized Casey Anthony.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTINA: But you`re telling the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Cause they`ll find.

CASEY: That`s it. I have no clue where my daughter is? Yes, that is the truth. That is the absolute truth.

LEE: Do you think Caylee is OK right now?

CASEY: In my gut, she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s -- she`s close to home.

GEORGE: That she`s safe. I`m worried about this family. She knows who has her daughter, she knows her daughter`s safe. You know I`ve got to believe her that she knows that everything`s OK.

GRACE: You seem hopeful that Caylee will be home by her birthday on Saturday. Why?

CINDY: Well, I hope that`s the case. I mean, every day I feel like we`re getting closer to locating where she`s at. Casey`s maintained al along she doesn`t know where Caylee`s at.

Casey`s telling us that Caylee`s life is in danger. Casey`s telling us that Caylee`s life is in danger. If we go in there and someone thinks that she`s going to tell me something more than her life is in danger, and I believe that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: From the jailhouse, we learned that mom, Casey, now announcing Caylee`s life is in danger.

Back to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, all along she has been representing that Caylee is with a nanny and she`s going to be brought home. Everything`s going to be fine. Now she says her life is in danger.

Why?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: You know, this is the one thing that a lot of people don`t understand, because remember, in the -- in your opening segment with the audiotape, she -- they mentioned the fact that she didn`t know where she was and all of a sudden she knows where she was.

Well, if she thinks Caylee`s life is in danger, why doesn`t she tell investigators and investigators can go to somebody`s house, wherever this thing is, break down the door with a search warrant, of course, and arrest these people. Case closed.

But, you know, with the mother and the father supporting Casey the way she has, all I can say is sometimes blood is thicker than water and also innocent until proven guilty.

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce with WDBO -- Nikki, what has happened -- what, what precipitated this change in scenario by mom, Casey Anthony, behind bars? All along she has been suggesting that Caylee is going to be OK. She`s going to be back home for her third birthday this Saturday and suddenly, August 6th, we find out she now says Caylee`s life is in danger.

What happened?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: You know, I`m not entirely sure. Cindy came out and said that she had spoken to Casey and Casey had said, quote, "in her own way," that Caylee is in danger and would be in danger if it appeared that she was giving more information.

Maybe I`m just speculating here, but maybe she is starting to feel like she`s running out of time, she`s running out of people to believe her, so she`s changing her story. It`s a possibility.

No one is really certain, because her stories have changed so much.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Mickey Sherman out of New York, criminal defense attorney, Paul Batista, veteran defense attorney as well.

To Mickey Sherman, your client changing her story, now announcing the baby is in danger?

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": You know, you don`t always have the greatest faith in your client`s ability to communicate with the police or anybody else. I wouldn`t place that much, you know, importance on what she has to say. It`s what she`s doing or she`s not doing.

GRACE: The last person that saw Caylee alive.

SHERMAN: Yes.

GRACE: Why shouldn`t we?

SHERMAN: You know.

GRACE: Why shouldn`t we consider every word she says important?

SHERMAN: Well, the problem is, obviously, there`s some agenda we don`t know about, whether she left.

GRACE: Yes, save your own skin agenda?

SHERMAN: Well, maybe she left her child with a book maker or drug dealer. God only knows. This is like a bad lifetime movie. We only hope that it doesn`t have a horrible ending.

GRACE: A book maker or a drug dealer. That scenario is fantastic. That`s incredible. I don`t believe that.

SHERMAN: It`s no less fantastic than.

GRACE: This woman has no history of involvement in drugs.

SHERMAN: Well, I`m just saying that there`s got to be some.

GRACE: Gambling, what, she had to steal gas from her family`s car.

SHERMAN: Well, I don`t know why anyone`s not saying that. I think the obvious reason that they think the gas is important is that she incinerated the child`s body. I mean that`s horrific, but isn`t that the obvious basis upon which the police are acting?

GRACE: Or unless they believe she put the gas cans in the trunk of the car, where there was a body, because remember, Paul Batista, the cadaver dog or dogs did hit Casey Anthony`s trunk.

And speaking of lawyers maneuvering, to Paul Batista, the lawyer, Baez, goes back and forth, I didn`t seek immunity, no, I would never, she wants to cooperate with the feds.

He told me that weeks ago. She still hasn`t met with the FBI. She still hasn`t met with the cops. And now.

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": Well, that`s her right, Nancy.

GRACE: . he comes out and says, oh, yes, we did talk about immunity.

BATISTA: She has a right to negotiate with the federal government, the state government. Baez has a right to ask for immunity, partial immunity.

GRACE: But why lie about it? Why say nobody`s ever mentioned that? Now we learned that they were talking about immunity in exchange for her helping to find her daughter.

BATISTA: Those conversations take place all the time between criminal suspects.

GRACE: Really?

BATISTA: . their lawyers and the prosecution.

GRACE: They didn`t with Marc Klaas. They didn`t with Marc Klaas. He didn`t ask for immunity before he volunteered to give a polygraph.

BATISTA: Well, maybe Marc Klaas was not represented at the time by Mr. Baez. Baez is doing the appropriate things in asking for immunity, in talking to the government, and trying to deal with this problem.

GRACE: I know but why lie about it? You want immunity, fine. But why, why do you want immunity? Doesn`t that disturb you that she is even bringing up the theory? OK, I`ll talk to you and help you find my daughter, but you can`t prosecute me for anything?

BATISTA: Her lawyer is.

GRACE: Doesn`t that suggest anything to you, Batista?

BATISTA: Her lawyer is exploring immunity for the simple reason that she is in jail. She is being prosecuted as though she were a murderer. Any rationale lawyer would seek to mitigate the circumstances that client is in.

GRACE: OK, Mickey, agree or disagree?

SHERMAN: I totally agree. And also, you got to remember, it`s not like we tell our clients what they should tell us. Very often, they tell us the truth, some truth, half-truths, missing facts, that we never about. So, you know, he`s at a real handicap because he doesn`t know if his client is going to change his story or if she`s telling the truth. He`s doing his best to protect her and that`s by keeping her mouth shut.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Angela in North Carolina. Hi, Angela.

ANGELA, NORTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: Hi, hi, Nancy. I wanted to know why they`re speaking on the baby, all they see is smiles and handshakes, and when they walk in the courtroom, all smiles, but when they say it hurts, she started crying.

GRACE: OK, wait, wait, Angela, repeat the question.

ANGELA: I want to know why when they brought -- when they keep talking about the baby, that`s all we see all smiles, but soon as they say, you, Casey, is getting charged, we see tears.

GRACE: You know that`s interesting.

What about it, Dr. Leslie Austin?

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I`m not exactly sure, to be honest, what the caller`s asking about but when people are not telling the truth.

GRACE: In court. I believe they`re talking about in court.

AUSTIN: Thanks, Nancy. When people are not telling the truth and they keep changing their stories, they`re not necessarily showing their real emotions and she may be crying because she`s upset that she`s still in court and she`s not focused on telling the truth and getting her child back.

GRACE: Rosie, let`s take a look at Casey-- excuse me, Casey Anthony in court. She was, as Angela pointed out, smiling throughout. And I`m not so sure that the parents are changing stories. They`re along for this roller coaster ride their daughter is taking them on. They`re just hanging on. All right?

So when they come out with different scenarios, I`m not so sure that they`re creating these in their own heads as opposed to trying to make sense of what their daughter is telling them from behind bars.

To Donna in Pennsylvania, hi, Donna?

DONNA, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you all? I want to let you know I love your show and I`ve been following you since Court TV.

GRACE: Man, that`s a long time ago.

DONNA: Yes.

GRACE: Remember those days with Johnny Cochran.

DONNA: That`s right. I just love you. I think you`re awesome.

GRACE: Thank you.

DONNA: My question is that they have on there that she posed as the babysitter by going to this apartment and supposedly trying to rent it under this false name. Now do they have any other evidence that she was posing such as like maybe a wig or a different clothing or using some type of thing to disguise herself?

GRACE: Interesting question.

Mark Williams, anything else in the avenue -- the line of questioning regarding posing as the babysitter?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, we`ve been discussing this thing right here. And we`re thinking that, you know, the apartment complex that she went to is in maybe not the best part of Orlando, maybe where some legal immigrants decide to set up shop. Usually you ask for a driver`s license and a photo I.D. I don`t think she presented them that day or the management didn`t ask.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY: Waste my call sitting in oh the jail?

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Who`s fault is.

CASEY: Sorry?

CINDY: Who`s fault is it you sitting in the jail? You`re blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail?

CASEY: Not my fault.

CINDY: Blame yourself for telling lies. What do you mean it`s not your fault? What do you mean it`s not your fault, sweetheart? If you had told them the truth, and not lied about everything, they wouldn`t.

CASEY: Do me a favor, just tell me what Tony`s number is. I don`t want to talk to you right now. Forget it.

CINDY: I don`t have his number.

CASEY: Well, get it from Lee because I know Lee`s at the house. I saw Mallory`s car was out front. It was just on the news. They were just live outside the house.

CINDY: I know they were.

CASEY: Well?

CINDY: Well.

CASEY: Can you get Tony`s number for me so I can call him?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

CINDY: Casey?

CASEY: Mom.

CINDY: Hey, sweetie.

CASEY: Well, I just saw your nice little cameo on TV.

CINDY: Which one?

CASEY: What do you mean which one?

CINDY: Which one? I did four different ones and I don`t know, I haven`t seen them all. I`ve only seen one or two so far.

CASEY: You don`t know what my involvement is in stuff?

CINDY: Casey.

CASEY: Mom.

CINDY: What?

CASEY: No.

CINDY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at?

CASEY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at, are you kidding me?

CINDY: Casey, don`t waste your call.

CASEY: No.

CINDY: . to scream and holler at me.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s your emergency?

CINDY: I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What is.

CINDY: Get someone here now.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What is the address that you`re calling from.

CINDY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Your daughter admitted that the baby is where?

CINDY: The babysitter took her a month ago that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself.

There`s something wrong. I found daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: These chilling 911 calls cannot be discounted. You heard the voice of Cindy Anthony, the grandmother, hysterical when she learns her granddaughter is missing.

I want to go back to Natisha Lance, standing by there outside the Anthony home.

Can you tell us about the dive teams now involved in the search for Caylee?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, OUTSIDE ANTHONY FAMILY HOME: According to a new report today, Nancy, a dive team is going to join the search for Caylee. They are going to search lakes and ponds in the vicinity of the Anthony home. According to a local resident that I spoke to earlier today, there are about three, at least three ponds in the area that they`ll be searching, one that is just a few doors down from the Anthony`s home.

Now this investigation is not one that is based off of a tip that police have received. However, the one from yesterday, where police searched a wooded area and went in with cadaver dogs, that one was based on a tip, however, they did not hit on anything.

GRACE: Natisha, is it true that the Anthony family has actually gotten threats?

LANCE: That is true, Nancy. I actually spoke to Deputy Padilla and he told me there was a rumor of an extortion letter. However, they were able to track that letter down to Thailand and it was nothing to it. It was a bogus letter.

He said, unfortunately, when a case gets this big in size that occasionally some of these things slip through the cracks.

GRACE: A crack (INAUDIBLE)

LANCE: . and they get some bogus letters.

GRACE: So there`s not a serious or a legitimate threat, but the family was threatened?

LANCE: Well, the family is saying that they`ve received threats over the phone as well as e-mail as well as through letters.

GRACE: Back to Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector. Why do the investigators keep going back? Just a couple of hours ago, they left the Anthony home with bags of evidence.

RON SHINDEL, FMR. NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Well, Nancy, as they collect evidence, that`s what that kit is, that tackle kit, it`s an evidence collection kit, as they go in and get evidence, they`re finding that some of the evidence links them to one theory or another. The evidence that they keep collecting is actually just leading them down a path and they realize now they have to maybe make adjustments in what they`re looking for and maybe look for additional evidence that will support another theory.

GRACE: So the more they learn suggests to them different things they need to be searching for, things they need to try to obtain from the home.

To Ernie Allen, with the national -- the president of National Center for Missing and Exploited Children -- Ernie, it`s very important in my mind that the investigators don`t lock into one theory, unless they`ve got a mountain of evidence. Why?

ERNIE ALLEN, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: No, absolutely, Nancy. They need to work these cases in parallel tracks. They need to rule things out. We understand how damaging the apparent evidence is, but it`s important that they continue to search for a live child, because you look for a body differently than you search for a live child.

GRACE: Everybody, the tip line, 1-800-423-TIPS. You see it on your screen there along with a photo of little Caylee.

I`m just telling you, Mark Williams of WNBD, if this is true, this theory they`re investigating right now, that Caylee -- Casey posed as a mysterious babysitter, if that is true, that`s going to blow this case wide open.

Do we have any idea whether she may have been disguised when she went to the apartment complex?

WILLIAMS: Not that we know of right now. Again, investigators are remaining tight-lipped when they went to the apartment complex today and when they left.

My question is, are there any video cameras at that location? Also, the other thing that could break this case wide open, Nancy, of course, is the DNA -- results of the DNA testing, which are due back later this week, either Thursday or Friday. And I think that`s going to yield a huge, a huge wealth of evidence in their search or in the search either for live child or for a body in this case.

GRACE: Back to Vince Miller, the vice president and chief technical officer joining us from Chromosomal Laboratories.

Vince, if Caylee`s DNA is found in the trunk, could there be an innocent explanation as to why?

VINCE MILLER, VP, CHIEF TECHNICAL OFFICER, CHROMOSOMAL LABORATORIES: Certainly. The point is that she lives there and so any DNA that might be there could be transferred.

GRACE: She doesn`t live in the car trunk, Vince.

MILLER: I`m sorry?

GRACE: She doesn`t live in the car trunk.

MILLER: No, she doesn`t live in the car trunk. But the evidence, she may have cut herself and DNA -- or the stain happened to be transferred to the trunk. If it`s a hair, we all shed about 50 to 100 hairs a day, so that could be transferred in.

GRACE: OK.

MILLER: So there`s lots of ways she could transfer it in.

GRACE: Understood. Would you expect to find forensic evidence of the so-called babysitter in any of Caylee`s clothing, her bedding, the diaper changing table, anything like that?

MILLER: Well, certainly if the -- if the babysitter was commonly used and used more than once or was in the residence, it doesn`t sound like it was kind of from what I`ve heard.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right, because not anybody has ever seen in all of the year and a half she`s baby sat for Caylee, nobody`s ever seen her.

To Katie in Alabama, hi, Katie.

KATIE, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Yes, hi, Nancy. I was wondering, most of the time when you go apartment hunting, they make a copy of your driver`s license before they take to you out to view the apartment. I was wondering if they did that in this case?

GRACE: Nikki Pierce, do we know?

PIERCE: We actually don`t know at this time. They`re continuing to investigate that, but your caller is correct. Normally they do take a copy of your driver`s license. However, as Mark Williams said earlier, perhaps in that area of town, it`s not common practice.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight out to the lines, Cindy in New York, hi, Cindy.

CINDY, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I love your show and you do an excellent job on it every time. I watch you every day.

GRACE: Thank you.

CINDY: And what I want to know is I`ve heard Cindy, Casey`s mom, in the past, make up -- or it seems that she makes up several excuses about Casey, said this in reference to her child being in fear for her safety. Are these recordings at the jail that can be traced or.

GRACE: Yes. The recordings at the jail can, but those phone calls, so far, have all been from family and friends. I -- I think what she`s getting at is as has Casey Anthony received information that suddenly makes her think her daughter`s life is in danger. To our knowledge, no.

Tammy in Arkansas, hi, Tammy.

TAMMY, ARKANSAS: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

TAMMY: I love your show. My question is can they force her to take a lie detector test since she`s lied too much?

GRACE: With me, Mickey Sherman, Paul Batista, it`s not that easy. Is it, Sherman?

SHERMAN: No, not at all. No one can be forced to a take a polygraph test, unless you`re like a government employee or something of that nature.

GRACE: Right.

SHERMAN: But if there are going to be a possible suspect in a crime, no, you have a right not to. That`s why.

GRACE: Paul, agree?

BATISTA: Absolute right not to do that. Absolutely correct.

GRACE: Of course, she can voluntarily take one, but, believe me, that hasn`t happened yet in this case.

Everyone, as you see the tip line, 800-423-TIPS, let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Jose Rubio Hernandez, 24, Mission, Texas, killed, Iraq. Lost his life just hours after his final birthday. Loved computers, movies with family, and his mom`s Mexican food.

Dreamed of creating his own video games, leaves behind mom (INAUDIBLE) and siblings, widow and high school sweetheart Jennifer, baby boy, Nikkolai.

Jose Rubio Hernandez, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. Happy birthday to Iowa State University coed Trina Rothenberg. And to one of our show stars, Marlina Schivo, a.k.a., warm and fuzzy. And a special get well tonight to my brother, Mack.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/06/ng.01.html

[mrskub]

NANCY GRACE
Aired August 5, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last hours, felony criminal charges handed down against Caylee`s mother, Casey Anthony facing hard jail time on felony child neglect and lying to investigators, investigators who are trying to find her little girl. As of this hour, the state holding off on murder charges. And even more stunning and disturbing photos emerge of mom, Casey, at a local nightclub after her little 2-year-old girl vanishes.

And tonight: DNA testing reportedly completed on hair and fluid found in Casey`s car trunk. After telling us he never asked for immunity for mom, Casey, in exchange for helping police, defense attorney Baez breaks down and admits that, yes, immunity has been discussed. And does a tip lead police to a heavily wooded area at a local elementary school with cadaver dogs in the search for Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Criminal charges just filed against Casey Anthony. The tot mom has been formally charged in connection with the disappearance of her daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony. The 22-year-old Anthony has been charged with felony child neglect for not reporting 2-year-old Caylee missing and also has been charged with lying to investigators. The next hearing in the case has been scheduled for August 21, and Anthony faces up to six years in prison on those charges alone.

While Anthony remains in jail, her mother, Cindy Anthony, chose not to meet with her own daughter this afternoon, saying she can`t discuss certain things with Anthony because the conversations are all being recorded and she fears for Caylee`s safety, this while the public anxiously awaits results of the forensic testing on Anthony`s car, set to be released this week.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Again, Casey is the key to this investigation. She knows what she did. She knows what time was the last time she saw the child, who she may have left the child with. Our concern is to find Caylee, going to be 3 years old on Saturday. That`s our concern.

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: We`ve all made mistakes. But right now, she`s not making a mistake. She`s protecting her child. And no one can say or second-guess what you`re going to do to protect your child when you fear for their safety. I don`t fear for Casey`s safety, so I`m not out there protecting her. I`m out there protecting my grandchild because I do fear for her.

Get off your (DELETED) and look for my granddaughter. I don`t care if this is on the news or what. But she`s out there.

I`m going to do whatever it takes to take advantage of the media, and if it continues to drag our family through the mud and whatever, as long as Caylee`s picture is out there every day and that picture gets ingrained on everybody`s brain and they look -- as long as they don`t give up, she`s coming home. She might come home this afternoon. She may come home tomorrow. I hope she`s home by Saturday. If she`s not, you know what? I`m not giving up just because her birthday`s Saturday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, now not seen for six long weeks. In the last hours, felony criminal charges handed down against Caylee`s mom. And even more stunning and disturbing photos emerge of mom, Casey, at a local nightclub after her little girl vanishes, all the while, DNA testing reportedly complete on hair and fluid found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking developments in the case of the missing 2-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Prosecutors have formally charged Caylee`s mother, Casey Anthony, with child neglect and lying to police officers regarding the disappearance of her daughter. Meanwhile, Anthony`s mother, Cindy Anthony, said that she decided to cancel her visit with daughter, Casey Anthony, because she felt it would hinder the search for her granddaughter, Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, you have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Sweetheart...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! You understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!

CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, huge waste. Honey, I love you. You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: If they had something to charge her, why wouldn`t they do it today, with everything else? So I mean, hello? That`s -- we`ve known this all along. Why else did they go and handcuff her and put her in jail? Because they feel that she -- she needs to be there. And again, once Caylee is found, everybody`s going to know that she doesn`t need to be there. She doesn`t belong there, and she doesn`t deserve what everybody`s doing to her. No one knows everything. I don`t know 100 percent, but I sure as heck know a lot more, but I can`t say a lot of things.

Today is actually very hopeful day. You know, I just found out that, you know, they did charge her formally today, which actually is a good thing because look what they charged her with. They didn`t charge her with anything but with, you know, voluntary child neglect and withholding evidence. If they had anything concrete on her, I think they would have used that today. Today was the last day that they had an opportunity to do so. That is in essence, a victory for us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Casey`s mother, stating that a felony indictment, felony charge against her daughter -- pictured here partying after her little girl goes missing, that`s her the night of the "hot body" contest, photos that emerged yesterday and today of mom, Casey -- she finds these charges a victory?

Straight out to Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk 1150. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Mark, what is the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, this is like going down Lombard Street in San Francisco, still a lot of twists and turns in this case. Of course, the charges have been filed about child endangerment against Casey Anthony. That is a felony in this state. So in essence, what happens from this point is that no court date has been set as of yet. She will be arraigned in the next 21 days. And during that arraignment, she doesn`t have to be there but she will probably submit a plea by arriving with a trial date set within 175 days after her initial arrest. Also, of course, that giving false information to law enforcement officers, that is a misdemeanor. That`s almost a throwaway charge. But those are the big deals.

Now, when you get with child neglect cases, basically, they`re saying that you haven`t taken care of the child that you were charged with. You haven`t cared for their physical health. You haven`t cared for their mental well-being. So that`s where those charges come from.

Again, a report today, unconfirmed right now -- we`re working on that situation -- about the DNA. Allegedly, investigators have this DNA report back. They aren`t going to -- they`re looking at it right now, but they aren`t going to release it to the media. And if they do, it`s going to be in a very controlled environment.

Cadaver dogs out on the street again today in Orange County. They searched a wooded area behind an elementary school. They got a tip earlier about there may be something back there, so they took the cadaver dogs back into a wooded area, and what they did is they searched back there. They couldn`t come up with anything. Cadaver dogs didn`t hit on anything. And as you know, the dogs have already hit at the Anthony homestead in east Orange County, as well as in the back of Casey`s car.

Also, let`s talk about those new pictures. Took a look at them just a short time ago. I`ll tell you what. These things again knocked my socks off. Five days after her child went missing, she is out at this "hot body" contest, bumping and grinding with anybody she could. Some of the pictures show her doing basically bumping and grinding and -- with another female. And one of the pictures shows this other female giving Casey a kiss on the cheek.

They`re kind of scandalous photos and also puts you in her mindset. She didn`t care about the kid, apparently. And what happened is she`s out partying. I mean, this is almost akin to O.J. looking for the murderer. She`s not looking for her child. Obviously, O.J. isn`t looking for the murderer of 12 years ago.

And Cindy Anthony was supposed to have an hour-long session today -- visit today with Casey, her daughter, at the Orange County jail. And the deal is, she didn`t show up at 1:00 PM when she was scheduled to do so. She knows that all of her conversations with Casey are recorded. As you recall, last week a judge here in Orange County said, We`re going to err on the side of the 1st Amendment. We`re going to release everything that`s put out there. So she didn`t want that videotape of her jailhouse visit to be released because she says the media misconstrues it.

So that`s pretty much it. Now we`re waiting for the birthday party on Saturday. Can`t wait to see if Caylee Marie shows up.

GRACE: Yes. Everyone, Mark Williams with WNDB is referring specifically to a statement made by grandmother Cindy Anthony that we just played for you, stating that Caylee would be home today, this afternoon, tomorrow or by Saturday, her 3rd birthday.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. We`re taking your calls live. With me, family law attorney and child advocate out of New York Susan Moss, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta, and veteran trial lawyer Jason Oshins out of New York.

Susan Moss, the grandmother, Cindy Anthony, is saying that this felony charge is a victory because it`s not a murder one charge. Have you considered, Susan Moss, that it is a ploy, a ploy to keep Casey Anthony behind bars until they get a murder one charge together?

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Absolutely, and until they look at this DNA evidence in full. But these charges are going to stick. She lost her child. I`d say that`s pretty neglectful. She also very clearly lied to the police. You know, even an old pizza receipt isn`t going to save her from this.

GRACE: You know -- I want to go to Raymond Giudice. I`ve got with me the information, the charges against Casey Anthony, these charges just handed down in the last hours. One is a felony. One is a misdemeanor. And specifically in the felony, Raymond, the state charges that she did not make a reasonable effort to protect Caylee from abuse, neglect or exploitation by another person. In the count two misdemeanor, it says she lied about the date and location where she last saw the child. So they`ve narrowed down out of a myriad, a hodgepodge of possible charges -- this is what they`ve fine-tooled the charges to be. Why?

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they wanted to get the clock running. They want to keep her from being released because of the restriction on the bond problem. But more importantly, Nancy, I will want to say this creates a problem for the state in that the defense now has an absolute right to a preliminary hearing, where the defendant will not have to testify and not be cross-examined, but attorney Baez can put the state`s witnesses up and start cross-examining them under oath right now-...

GRACE: Ray...

GIUDICE: ... and say...

GRACE: Ray...

GIUDICE: ... What evidence do you have?

GRACE: They already had that right. The hearing would have been tomorrow, had they exercised the right and demanded one. They already had a right to a preliminary hearing. This changes nothing.

GIUDICE: But the information does not stop that right to a hearing.

GRACE: So?

GIUDICE: But what it does, is, Nancy, it narrows the scope for the defense lawyer at the preliminary hearing to say, I want to attack these specific charges and allegations. You`ve narrowed this down -- the state has. Now prove it.

GRACE: You know, Jason Oshins, I`ve got a different take on it. Contrary to what Ray Giudice just said, the defense always had a right to a preliminary hearing. When you`re waiting for a charge and X number of days go by in your jurisdiction, you have a right to say to the state, Put up or shut up. The defendant at a preliminary hearing, or any hearing, never has to take a stand. That`s not anything new. That`s not a headline. Of course, she doesn`t have to take the stand. They already had a right to preliminary hearing.

I see this as a step forward for the state, a felony charge and a misdemeanor charge, because out of all the things they could have picked, I think they picked these two charges because they`re going to be so easy to prove.

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re exactly correct. They were the easiest ones to bring forth. Clearly, just on the facts as we all know them, it has the appearance of neglect. And certainly, if that were the only charge ever brought, you know, you`d feel confident as the prosecutor that you`ve got a good shot of conviction by jury.

So they`re certainly engaging in procedural law by holding her on charges within the 21 days, and I don`t even think defense would have met the burden of, you know, these de minimis charges in terms of, you know, having them tossed and having her released on bond. Although the interesting thing, now that there`s an information, they do have another shot at going for bond with a different circuit judge.

GRACE: How will it affect the bond, Ray Giudice, quickly?

GIUDICE: I don`t think it`ll affect the bond in her favor at all. In fact, I think it argues strongly against it.

GRACE: So the bond -- wasn`t it -- Nikki Pierce with WDBO radio, wasn`t the bond at $500,000?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: It was at $500,000, and Jose Baez keeps saying that that is prohibitively high and that`s keeping her in jail. But who knows what another circuit judge will come up with.

GRACE: Well, the appellate courts have already ruled, Sue Moss -- he took it up on appeal -- that the bond stays as is. They -- one line in the decision, denied, the rehearing on the bond. The charges haven`t changed. What I`m trying to say, Sue Moss, is she was arrested on child neglect. That was the bond on child neglect, $500,000. Now she`s been formally charged on child neglect. I agree with Ray on that one. Nothing has really changed, except maybe the state has a more powerful position now.

MOSS: Absolutely. The appellate court said that there was no abuse of discretion in setting that level of bond, and I don`t see a circuit court changing that number.

GRACE: A lot happening today in the search for 2-year-old Caylee Anthony. Number one, formal charges handed down -- a formal information, it is called in that jurisdiction -- against Casey Anthony. One, felony child neglect. Two, lying to police officers. She`s looking at a jail time of six years behind bars.

We`re taking your calls. Out to Artie in Iowa. Hi, Artie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, first of all, your twins are beautiful...

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and they couldn`t have found a better mother.

GRACE: I pray that you`re right. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, has anybody really interviewed the mother of this lady? Because she seems to know a lot more than what she`s saying.

GRACE: Well, it`s interesting you would say that, Artie. I know that she has met not only with the FBI, Artie in Iowa, but also with local police for hours on end.

But -- to Nikki Pierce with WDBO -- she said just today she canceled a scheduled visitation with Casey because she didn`t want it to be on videoconference, where we can see what she is saying. Now, why is it that she wouldn`t want the world to know what they`re saying about the search for little Caylee, Nikki?

PIERCE: That is an awfully good question. And you`re right, investigators do say that she has been cooperating. But the problem is, most of the information that she`s giving investigators she`s gotten from Casey. And they already know that Casey has just been lying and lying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I can tell you, I haven`t -- you know, that is one of -- I mean, if there`s stones to be unturned, that`s one of hundreds, I`m sure. But it`s not off the radar, either. But you know, it`s not something that I`ve probably put all of my time and effort into, either, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were some items that were almost pretty much like a bucket worth of, like, stuffed animals, toys, things like that, that were donated for Caylee, you know, to the family to say, you know, When she gets back, she can play with all this stuff, and all those kind of things. Now, the items, they reeked of cigarette smoke, and we`re not smokers here, you know, for all those things. I know that some of those items were tried to be cleaned up or washed or things like that. But if something was so -- you know what I mean? If it`s kind of built into the cloth. My parents decided, you know, just to throw it away.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are seeing stunning and disturbing photos just received today. These are photos taken by another fellow partier. This is at the "hot body" contest five days after little Caylee allegedly went missing. This is her mom, partying down at a local nightclub. Now, the defense team with us tonight will tell you these prove nothing, but in my mind, they speak volumes -- evidentiary habitual behavior on the part of mom, Casey Anthony. She`s not looking for her daughter.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Delores in Florida. Hi, Delores.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. I`m trying to figure out -- because it had been a while since they sent those cadaver dogs out there.

GRACE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m thinking they need to send those dogs back out there, since they did come up on something. It was a lot of evidence that could have been erupted (ph), you know, from the time...

GRACE: That they went out there? Well, Delores, interesting you would bring that up because there are reports that we`re trying to confirm right now that cadaver dogs were sent out to a local elementary school.

Very quickly, Nikki Pierce, what can you tell us about that?

PIERCE: Well, they were sent out to search a wooded area near an elementary school.

GRACE: Today?

PIERCE: Based on a tip today, as we understand it. And the cadaver dogs did not hit on anything at that particular time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: The whole focus on the media, I`ve been trying to tell you from day one, is finding Caylee, this little child right here. She is the victim in all of this. Casey is also a victim in all this, but you know what? Casey`s safe. I know where she`s at. She`s very well protected where she`s at. This little one is not protected.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m too trusting of people I`ve just met. I`ve gotten burned by all of you guys. So again, I can look you all in the eyes and you can say how you feel sorry for me, but then you can go back to your stations and allow them to make me look out to be some horrible person that had something to do with Caylee`s disappearance. So think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is grandmother Cindy Anthony responding to the media. Bombshell today. Formal charges handed down against mom, Casey, charges of felony child neglect and misdemeanor, lying to police.

I want to go out to a very special guest joining us tonight, speaking to us for the first interview since formal charges have been filed against Casey Anthony. This is little Caylee`s former babysitter, Holly Gagne. She`s a very dear friend of the Anthony family. Holly, what is your response to these charges?

HOLLY GAGNE, ANTHONY FAMILY FRIEND, BABYSAT FOR CAYLEE: Well, you know, it doesn`t -- it doesn`t sound great when you say it`s a victory that your child`s been charged, you know, with these charges. But I guess they`re looking at it as all the things, the terrible murder charges or the part of her death (ph) -- that they think everyone`s been leading up to and just blatantly saying, they`re just happy that they`re sticking with the obstruction of justice and...

GRACE: Right. So they`re looking for any silver lining whatsoever.

GAGNE: That would be an exact statement.

GRACE: Holly, do they really believe -- Cindy Anthony says Caylee`s going to be home for her birthday this Saturday. Do they really believe that?

GAGNE: I believe they`re hoping that, and I believe they`re speaking just in a positive manner that she`s going to be home. And that`s what we`re all doing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: Casey gave me an explanation where she was, and it was very -- it was very, you know, believable. And I had no reason to ever doubt my daughter.

Casey has lied to me in the past. And when she`s lied, she`s told me the truth. We`ve always gotten to the bottom of the truth. The only thing that raised a red flag to me is the fact that Casey could not tell me where she was at.

I never tried to find out where Caylee was because I didn`t have a reason to find out where Caylee was. She was with Casey. Every time I spoke with Casey, I asked if I could speak with Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And you were denied that opportunity?

ANTHONY: I didn`t feel like I was being denied anything. It was an inopportunity or there -- is all I could say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Marc Klaas joining us, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. He`s also a crime victim. His daughter Polly was abducted and then murdered.

When he was approached in the search for his daughter Polly, he said, take my DNA, search my house, search my car, strap me up to a polygraph, but do it quickly so you can go look for the kidnapper.

We`re seeing just the opposite in this case.

Now, Marc, I want you to stay with me on this. Is there a scenario where Casey Anthony was just fed up being a mom, she wanted to be single again. I mean you could see these just-released photos of her out partying after Caylee goes missing.

She wants to be free and single. She wants to shack up with the boyfriend. So she allows a babysitter or some third party to take the little girl on vacation or to sit with the little girl for a period of weeks.

That is feasible, yes, no?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, BEYONDMISSING.COM, FATHER OF MURDER VICTIM POLLY KLAAS: Yes. You know, that`s just.

GRACE: Except if that`s true, Marc, why now doesn`t she say, "I sent the baby with x, they`re on vacation, here`s how to reach them?" Why is she not helping cops? That`s the fly in the ointment.

KLAAS: Well -- but if you extend that scenario out, is getting rid of the child one way or the other so that she could engage in the kind of lifestyle she`s always envisioned for herself, then you would take it to the level of O.J. Simpson or so many of these other husbands that kill their wives because they interfere with the kind of lifestyle that they want. That`s why she can`t -- or possibly why she can`t do anything.

But very quickly here, I`d like to respond to something that Cindy said. She said that nobody can second-guess somebody in a situation like this. But I believe I`m in a perfect position to do so. And what I think should happen here is, I think, the family should step back for a -- take a long weekend or something, because we`re seeing some really bad behavior out of them right now.

The brother says that donated gifts for the child will get thrown in a dumpster because they might smell like smoke. Well, if you don`t like them, send them to an orphanage. Send them to CPS. Send them to the children`s advocacy center. There are other children that can take advantage of it.

And this business of Cindy blaming absolutely everybody for her problems right now I think is a dire mistake. What she has to realize is that the police are looking for the little girl, that, in fact, the media, yourselves, all of us, the public is looking for the little girl. We want her to be brought home desperately.

But the reality is that there`s not a lot of twists and turns in this case. Everything today is exactly as it was at the very beginning. The likelihood of finding Caylee is not very great until Casey starts cooperating and let`s people know what actually happened.

GRACE: Mark Klaas, you are in a position to second-guess, because you`ve been in the same exact spot when your little girl, Polly, went missing.

And what`s disturbing to me is that everyone -- her family and others -- are just taking what she is spoonfeeding them. And it doesn`t make sense. You know why it doesn`t make sense what she`s saying? Because we are trying to apply logic to something illogical.

KLAAS: Yes. No, there.

GRACE: I want to.

KLAAS: Yes, there`s no question about that at all.

GRACE: Back to special guest tonight, Holly Gagne, Caylee`s former babysitter. She is speaking out for the first time since the charges have come down. Formal charges handed down today against mom Casey Anthony.

Holly, I can go that scenario that she gave Caylee to someone to keep for a period of time. But why would you sit behind bars and torture your family, torture a public who wants to find the little girl, instead of saying, "I gave her to the babysitter, here`s her number. She`s supposed to be back on x."

What`s the big deal? I don`t understand it. Why would she lie and sit in jail rather than tell the truth if it`s innocent?

HOLLY GAGNE, FMR. BABYSITTER TO CAYLEE, FIRST INTERVIEW SINCE CHARGES CAME DOWN: Why, why, why? Yes, that`s what we`re all saying. You know, there`s rumors or there`s been talk that because she`s trying to protect her there`s something she can`t say, she can`t -- you know, there`s -- there is all this confusion.

And I want to say to you, Nancy, and to the America and -- she is going to have to answer to everybody. I mean, she is going to be held accountable. This girl isn`t just going to get her daughter back tomorrow and, oh, everything is going to be fine.

I want to know why and you want to know why. Our community wants to know why. We`re all, her family -- they were at my home for two hours yesterday. And, I mean, it was heart wrenching. And so she`s got a lot of questions to answer. I mean, I -- that is not being dismissed.

GRACE: But why is she not answering unless there`s something horribly wrong with this scenario?

GAGNE: OK.

GRACE: Unless Caylee isn`t dead? I`ll just put it out there. Why isn`t she answering her own mother and father? What`s there -- what could be worse than what she`s doing right now?

GAGNE: OK. She`s saying, you know -- I don`t know all the answers because I`m not there and they`re not able to tell me everything. But they truly believe that she is in danger, that there`s a friend or there`s someone that`s hurting her or she could be hurt and that she feels like if she says this that they would hurt the child.

Nancy, that`s all I can say to you. That`s the only answer I can give you.

GRACE: Well, you know what, I believe you. And just as Marc Klaas said at the get-go, we`re no further along in finding Caylee than we were when she went missing back on June 16, the last time anybody has seen her alive.

I want to go back to our reporters, Mark Williams and Nikki Pierce.

Mark, what do we know about reports that the DNA taken from samples in mom Casey`s car trunk are back?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: There`s a report that`s been surfacing for the past couple of hours that investigators, in fact, have the DNA reports. We`re still trying to confirm it on this end. And I know a lot of media outlets are doing the same.

Everybody right now remaining tight lipped about that because they`ve said in the past that those -- the DNA is expected back by the end of the week. I don`t think they would have filed these formal charges today unless they had some solid leads in this case.

GRACE: I want to go to Anjali Swienton, president and CEO of Cy Law Forensic. She is joining us tonight out of Tampa.

How long would it take to analyze hair, which police have already said is an eye match to Caylee found in the trunk and possible body fluids found in the trunk? How long would it take? They`ve also made the announcement today that they`ve got Caylee`s DNA. So they have a known comparison.

So what`s the holdup?

ANJALI SWIENTON, CEO, SCILAWFORENSICS, LTD.: Well, Nancy, it depends on a couple of different things, what type of DNA testing the lab is attempting to do. If they do nuclear DNA, which doesn`t actually test the hair but tests skin cells at the root of the hair, the amount of hands-on time to conduct the testing could just be as little as a day or two.

But, again, if that hair had been left in the trunk of the car, in the heat in Florida, in the summer, and there wasn`t a lot of cellular material, they have another option, which is mitochondrial DNA testing.

That type of testing is done on the actual piece of hair as opposed to the cells and only certain laboratories are equipped with conducting this type of testing. It`s a completely different type of testing and can take a little bit longer to do.

GRACE: When you say a little bit longer, what do you mean by that? Give me a ballpark.

SWIENTON: If they start the testing, say, on one day, they may be able to get preliminary results within about a week. You said they do have.

GRACE: OK. That makes sense. That makes sense. Yes, they do have an exemplar, a sample of her hair. And when Anjali Swienton is referring to the cell of the hair she`s talking about the root, the root, as opposed to the shaft.

If you have the root you have nuclear DNA. If you have only the shaft of the hair you have to go with mitochondrial DNA which she says takes much longer.

Out to the lines, Rita in California. Hi, Rita.

RITA, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I`m a mother of twins and I`m also a grandmother. So I`m speaking for the grandmothers here. If I knew anything about my granddaughter, if I had any information, I would tell the world.

I do not understand this grandmother stating, I know information about this case, but I`m not allowed to speak. I do not understand that. From my point of view, I think that`s wrong. I think America should pray for this child right now.

Thank you.

GRACE: Rita, I agree with you. But I don`t want to crucify Cindy Anthony as much as we think she may be wrong, because she`s not responsible for Caylee`s disappearance.

But by not revealing what she has been told, is that hindering the investigation to find 2-year-old Caylee Anthony?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY: Today is actually very hopeful day. You know, I just found out that, you know, they did charge her formally today, which actually is a good thing because look what they charged her with. Didn`t charge her with anything but what -- you know, voluntary child neglect and withholding evidence.

If they had anything concrete on her, I think they would have used that today and today was the last day that they had an opportunity to do so. That, in essence, is a victory for us.

It was very difficult for me not to go see her today, but I think it`s in Caylee`s best interest. I think it`s for her safety, because those recordings are -- you know, the videos are public -- can be public record. It was a very hard decision for me, but it`s all about Caylee and it`s all about her safety.

So as much as I wanted to go see Casey today and visit with her, I -- you know, I couldn`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Bombshells dropping today in the search for 2-year-old little Caylee Anthony. Number one, formal criminal charges handed down against mom, Casey Anthony, charges for child neglect and lying to investigators.

On top of that, reports that cadaver dogs have been sent to an elementary school there near their home apparently hitting on nothing. That`s pursuant to a tip police received.

We also have reports that the DNA samples taken out of the back of mom Casey`s trunk have been completed. We don`t know the answer. Were those hairs belonging to Caylee? Was it her body fluid in that car trunk?

Remember that car found abandoned with mom Casey`s pocketbook sitting there on the front seat. Why?

We are taking your calls live. I want to go out to T.J. Ward, president of Investigative Consultants International.

T.J., thank you for being with us.

T.J, WARD, PRESIDENT, CEO, INVESTIGATIVE CONSULTANTS INTERNATIONAL, INC.: I`m glad to meet you.

GRACE: T.J., given all of the media exposure in this case, what do you make of the fact that we haven`t found little Caylee yet? And how is that helping or hurting the investigation?

WARD: Well, I don`t know if it`s hurting or helping one way or the other. But the mere fact that the family getting on and talking in front of the media and making exposure to the police, I don`t think that`s a good sign.

The mere fact we go back to the dog -- go back to the cadaver dogs hitting on the car and the car being abandoned and being left and she not having an answer, I think she`s probably in jail trying to figure out an alibi.

She`s probably embarrassed about something happening to the child. And we believe that probably she`s trying to figure out what her alibi is going to be about her embarrassment. I`ve seen a case like this before most recently where a child was left in a car in a heated -- at a grocery store and left in 115 degrees and could not figure out why she wouldn`t tell the truth about leaving the baby in the car, telling everybody she took the baby into the -- she took the baby into the store when she really didn`t.

GRACE: Joining me right now is a very special guest, joining us by phone is Cindy Anthony. Thank you for being with us.

ANTHONY: Hey, Nancy. I`m only here because of Holly.

GRACE: I understand. Tell us -- I can see when you are speaking on camera how much it hurt you not to go to that visitation today. Why didn`t.

ANTHONY: Absolutely. Absolutely.

GRACE: Why didn`t you go to the jail?

ANTHONY: I didn`t go to the jail because I`m protecting Caylee`s well-being. And that is.

GRACE: Can you explain to us how -- not go -- how -- and I understand you think you`re going to be overheard and it`s going to be released to the media. Understood and agree.

ANTHONY: I`m not -- I don`t think I`m going to be overheard, Nance. It`s a fact that they tape everything.

GRACE: It will be.

ANTHONY: Exactly.

GRACE: It will be.

ANTHONY: And they.

GRACE: But why is it that what she may say about the search for Caylee would hurt Caylee?

ANTHONY: Well, again, the people that have her -- the whole reason Casey is behind bars is because she`s protecting Caylee`s safety. And I cannot say that enough.

Unfortunately, you know, I can`t say things that`s going to jeopardize what we`re doing looking for this child. And I refuse to do so. And I`m not going to waste my time worrying about justifying pictures that you`re showing on your show every night that are two and three years old.

I do want to address.

GRACE: Well, what about the ones that are five days after Caylee went missing? The one I just showed.

ANTHONY: Well, one of the local reporters, Nancy -- one of the local reporters verified with a Fusion employee that that was taken on June 13th, which was prior to Caylee`s disappearance.

GRACE: Well, before you go any further.

ANTHONY: The reason I called.

GRACE: . the photographer that took those photos has given us the date of five days after Caylee went missing, which was the 15th. I know that you guys saw her on the morning of the 16th. And the others are taken by a fellow partier, who also states it`s five days later.

So that`s two sources supporting the date of the photos. But forget the photos. I want to.

ANTHONY: OK. Forget the photos. The reason I`m calling is.

GRACE: The search for Caylee.

ANTHONY: All right. Here`s the thing. Your expert witness, who has some, you know -- some experience in this doesn`t have the exact experience that I have. And I -- you know, I understand that he has a perspective that a lot of people don`t have. But to compare Casey to O.J. Simpson, that she had no way out.

Casey had a way out if she wanted to not be a mom anymore. Casey lived in a loving family and so did Caylee. Casey knew that any time she had any opportunity -- and obviously if you guys have photographs of her over the last few years going out and enjoying her life -- you know, enjoying life as a 22-year-old and a 20-year-old and a 21-year-old, and a 19-year-old normally would, she had that opportunity.

So someone needs to step back for a minute and think what changed? What would make sense? Well, what we`ve been saying all along that someone took her daughter. Casey has not an irresponsible mother. She did not leave her car. She`s not embarrassed. I mean to say that it`s an embarrassment that she`s trying to sit in jail to cover up, you know, to think about a cover-up for an embarrassment?

Casey`s a mom that puts an extra key in her pocket every time she takes her daughter in the car because she`s afraid if she tries to grab too many things and she leaves her purse she doesn`t want to lock the car and not have a key that she can get in there and get her purse back out or to take care of her daughter.

You know, she thinks, again, every little thing she thinks about and everything we think about is child proofing, making sure that that little girl is safe. So that`s why I can say 100 percent Caylee -- Casey may have told lies and she`s continuing to maintain -- since she`s been, you know, with the authorities she`s maintained and has not changed her story that someone that she entrusted this child to has taken her and has betrayed her trust.

And.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Police desperately searching for 2-year-old Caylee Anthony. With me now her grandmother Cindy Anthony.

Miss Anthony, thank you for calling in. You seem hopeful Caylee will be home by her birthday on Saturday. Why?

ANTHONY: Well, I hope that`s the case. I mean every day I feel like we`re getting closer to locating where she`s at. Casey`s maintained all along she doesn`t know where Caylee is at. Casey`s maintained all along that she doesn`t trust the authorities and, you know, as much as I want to say I can`t blame her for certain things that.

GRACE: Well, can I ask you.

ANTHONY: . you know I`ve seen and heard over the last three weeks.

GRACE: Can I ask you -- I know you will not reveal who your daughter says took -- has Caylee but do you know.

ANTHONY: I can`t, Nancy.

GRACE: Do you know who it is? Has she told you?

ANTHONY: Again, we`re pretty confident that we`re on the right track.

GRACE: So I`m going to take that as a yes. How are you going about finding her if you`re not having police help you?

ANTHONY: Police is -- police are helping. You know, we`ve spoken with a lot of different authorities over the last several weeks. More so in the last week than we have, you know, since the onset.

GRACE: OK.

ANTHONY: . because we were putting everything in Orange County`s hands, and we`ve been working closely with them over the last -- we`re probably very close.

GRACE: What do you make of the cadaver dogs hitting on the car?

ANTHONY: One cadaver dog, Nancy. Let`s get that straight.

GRACE: OK. Cadaver dog. What do make of the dog hitting on the car?

ANTHONY: One cadaver dog. And same cadaver dog that was the one that was inconsistent in my backyard, the same.

GRACE: OK.

ANTHONY: Explain to me why they had to go an extra day and bring an extra dog in.

GRACE: With us, everyone, is.

ANTHONY: . because that cadaver dog didn`t hit the same spot more than once.

GRACE: . Caylee`s grandmother, Cindy Anthony.

Very quickly, let`s remember Army Private First Class Tyler Smith, 22, Bethel, Maine, killed, Iraq. He leaves behind grieving parents, Martin and Wendy, widow, Heather.

Tyler Smith, American hero.

Thank you so much for being with us, to our guests and you, for inviting us into your homes. Good night from Georgia friends of the show, Sam, Susan, Courtney, Robert, Carly, Emily and Beth.

Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friends.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/05/ng.01.html

[mrskub]

NANCY GRACE
More Tot Mom Party Photos Released
Aired August 4, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for six long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight: Is there a limit to how much one person can party? Apparently not. More stunning and disturbing photos emerge of mom, Casey, at a local nightclub reportedly the night of the "hot body" contest. This just days -- days -- after her little 2-year-old girl vanishes. From the jailhouse mom, Casey, now states Caylee is, quote, "close" and will be home for her 3rd birthday this Saturday.

In the last hours, the Florida state`s attorney confirms the Anthony camp does want immunity. And tonight: Does the timeline fall apart again? The grandparents meet with cops behind closed doors to try and piece together the puzzle, all the while the clock ticking down on hair and fluid discovered in Casey Anthony`s car trunk and evidence seized from the Anthony home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More racy photos released in the case of missing 2-year-old toddler Caylee Anthony. The photos appear to show the toddler`s mother, Casey Anthony, dancing on stage at a nightclub almost a week after her daughter, Caylee, was last seen. In other breaking developments today, the state attorney`s office announced that someone asked them to give immunity to Casey Anthony. The state attorney would not identify who specifically asked for immunity but said they have no intention of giving immunity to anyone involved in this case.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony asked his daughter point blank in jail Sunday, Where is Caylee?

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: Dad, she`s safe. I`m worried about the family. She knows who has her daughter. She knows her daughter is safe. And I`ve got to believe her that she knows everything is OK. And I mean, do I think she might have gotten involved in something? Possibility. I don`t know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Whatever`s going on now, it`s going to be found out, so why not do it now, save yourself...

CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING CHILD`S MOTHER: There`s nothing to find out. There`s absolutely nothing to find out, and that`s even what I told the detectives.

LEE ANTHONY: Well, you know, everything that you`re telling them is a lie.

CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, now not seen for six long weeks. More stunning and disturbing photos emerge of mom, Casey, at a local nightclub reportedly bumping and grinding the night of the "hot body" contest. This is just days after little Caylee vanishes. All the while, the Florida state`s attorney confirms the Anthony camp does want immunity.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He knows this is the week when some of the unknowns may be revealed. The DNA tests are expected to come back on the evidence taken from his daughter`s abandoned car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sources close to this investigation tell WSH2 (ph) that George Anthony admitted to the FBI that when he first smelled his daughter`s car, he thought it was the odor of a body. But Anthony says he now believes the smell came from a combination of a rotting pizza and a cleaning fluid bottle being left in a hot car for 15 days.

GEORGE ANTHONY: It was an overpowering smell, I`ll admit that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first glance, you thought this may be the smell of a body.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Or decomposition. Possibility. Maybe my daughter ran over something.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking new photos released reportedly showing Casey Anthony partying just days after her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee, was last seen. The photos shows Anthony dancing and partying on stage with another female partygoer, and no sign of the young mother conducting what she had told cops was her own investigation into the toddler`s disappearance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: Do you think Caylee`s OK right now?

CASEY ANTHONY: My gut feeling? As Mom asked me yesterday and (INAUDIBLE) last night and the psychologist asked me this morning that I met with through the court, in my gut, she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s -- she`s close to home.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: You are seeing photos of mom, Casey. This is after little Caylee goes missing. According to the photographer that took these photos, these were taken at a local nightclub the night of the "hot body" contest. And there`s Caylee`s mom, in all of her grief, working through it.

Out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Nancy, I guess the biggest thing right now -- and I know the biggest thing right now -- are those risque photos that were issued and released just a couple of hours ago. They are risque in the fact that they were taken June 20 after -- five days after Caylee Anthony went missing. And she is shown bumping and grinding with another woman during that "hot bodies" contest. And that`s the big thing right there. Obviously, you know, you have shown them. They`re up on the screen right now.

Also, another development, earlier today, Cindy and George Anthony met with Orange County sheriff`s investigators for nearly three hours. The reason? They`re trying to establish and give cops a better timeline as to what happened during those 31 days and when Casey finally came back.

Another issue that came up is, yesterday morning, George Anthony, Casey`s father, met for 45 minutes with Casey in the Orange County jail. Now, what they did is, they talked about a lot of things, but the biggest revelation coming out of that was the fact that she is confident that Casey is close -- or Caylee is close by, Casey -- Caylee is alive and -- are you ready for this? -- she will be at her 3rd birthday party, which is this Saturday.

Also coming out of the state attorney`s office, a possible deal of limited immunity for Casey Anthony. That`s been bandied about a little bit. The attorney for Casey Anthony, Jose Baez, it`s believed it came from him, but Randy Means (ph) with the state attorney`s office here in Orlando said, We`re not entertaining any possibility whatsoever.

Obviously, folks want to get this investigation off dead center. And now on Wednesday, the 21st day of Casey Anthony`s incarceration in the Orange County jail, her attorney, Jose Padilla -- or Jose...

GRACE: Baez.

WILLIAMS: ... Baez -- there we go, thank you -- can ask for a...

GRACE: Preliminary hearing.

WILLIAMS: ... preliminary hearing in the deal, which would obviously bring a lot of people in and he could cross-examine people. So that could possibly happen as early as Wednesday.

GRACE: Everything shifting and changing in the search for Caylee over the weekend. What I find very disturbing, in addition to these photos -- Casey Anthony, the mom of Caylee, is in the blue. This is the night of the "hot body" contest that -- according to the photographer that took these photos. This is several days after her little 2-year-old girl goes missing.

I find it very, very interesting -- back to you, Mark Williams -- that the grandfather, Caylee`s grandfather, Casey Anthony`s father, who is a former cop, goes to the jail. He is in there for nearly an hour. He says he asks her the tough questions. Then when he is confronted when he comes out, he says he knows nothing new. I mean, her own father, a former cop, cannot get an answer out of her as to where Caylee is? Do I understand those facts correctly, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Yes, you do, Nancy. And that`s basically -- when he came out of the jail yesterday, he said that, again reiterating, that Casey told him that Caylee is alive, she`s close by and that she`ll show up for her 3rd birthday party on Saturday, which I find hard to believe if she`s been missing six weeks already.

GRACE: Take a listen to what the grandfather had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: Dad, she`s safe. I`m worried about the family. She knows who has her daughter. She knows her daughter`s safe. You know, I`ve got to believe her that she knows everything is OK. And I mean, do I think she might have got involved in something? Possibility. I don`t know.

My gas cans were stolen on the 24th of June. I mean, there`s a report about that. They just wanted to come in, and they`re lining everything up. They`re doing a thorough investigation.

I said, Whatever you guys want to take from my house, you want to take the shingles off the roof, I don`t care. You do what you need to do to bring my granddaughter back.

There was an overpowering smell, I`ll admit that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first glance, you thought this may be the smell of a body or decomposition.

GEORGE ANTHONY: That`s a possibility, yes. It`s a possibility. I mean, maybe my daughter ran over something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Finally, somebody that makes some sense. Yes, the father is still struggling to believe his daughter, pictured here the night of the "hot body" contest. Yes, he is. Every parent would. But he is also very straightforward. At least, Nikki Pierce, that`s the way I find him.

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: He seems to be very straightforward. I think some of his experience as an investigator previously in Ohio is coming through. He`s really trying to find out where Caylee is, and he just point blank asked his daughter, Where is Caylee? And of course, Casey gave him the runaround with those answers, but he really did try his absolute best.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Anna in Kansas. Hi, Anna.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I wanted to ask about the grandfather or the grandmother. Have they been asked to do a polygraph test?

GRACE: Interesting question. To Mark Williams. I`ve got a feeling that both of them would submit to one, especially the grandfather. Have they been asked to do a polygraph?

WILLIAMS: As far as I know, that has not been the case. That`s why they`ve been in the sheriff`s office. They went back to the sheriff`s office today, after a visit last week with sheriff`s office investigators. They just want to establish, give them a better frame of timeline. But they have not, as I know of, yet been asked to take any sort of a polygraph test.

GRACE: OK. We`re taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. We also hear today that the mom, Casey Anthony, says Caylee is, quote, "close by" and she will be home for her 3rd birthday this Saturday.

Sue Moss, weigh in.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This woman seems to have some information, and now she wants immunity to tell us? No way, Jose! Jose Baez, that is. This woman is not getting a single break by this law enforcement, and she deserves not a single break by this law enforcement. If she doesn`t want her daughter found, then we shouldn`t give her any, any help along the way.

GRACE: To Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer joining us out of Seattle. Anne, what`s the deal with the lawyer, Baez? Because he comes on our show and says point blank to my face, I haven`t asked anybody for immunity, I don`t know what you`re talking about, we hear it from the public information officer, the PIO, Padilla...

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

GRACE: ... we also now hear it from the state attorney general`s office, that the Anthony camp has requested immunity, I assume, in exchange for helping find Caylee.

BREMNER: You know, everybody is saying that there`s a request for immunity and authorities are saying they`re not going to give it. Now, this is a case with at least a defendant -- you know, if at first you don`t succeed in deceit, you know, lie, lie again. She`s like a lying liar, and that`s working for her. So I don`t know why they would give her immunity right now.

GRACE: Why do you say it`s working for her?

BREMNER: Because she`s not charged with murder. She`s not charged with the missing child. She is to be released by the 17th. So so far, sad to say, it`s working for her, Nancy. Nancy, I looked up on the Internet "lying to get ahead," and it had hundreds of thousands of hits, sorry to say.

GRACE: You know, Doug Burns, something very, very pertinent that Anne Bremner just said, that she could be out in just a few days. She could walk free. Explain, Doug Burns.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they have a certain period of time to either give her a preliminary hearing, which becomes an opportunity for the defense to see witnesses and cross-examine, or alternatively, Nancy, as you know better than most, being a prosecutor as long as you were, if they return an indictment, then there`s no entitlement to the hearing. So they`re going to have to kind of fish or cut bait by the 17th of August, and then we`re going to see what happens.

GRACE: Anne Bremner, explain the 33-day rule.

BREMNER: Well, basically, you have a right to a speedy trial. You have a right to be charged and released. And the fact of the matter is, it`s a constitutional right that she has and we all have.

GRACE: So bottom line, Sue Moss -- Doug Burns, veteran trial lawyer joining us out of New York, Anne Bremner, Seattle -- Susan Moss also out of New York. Susan, Florida has a statute, the 33-day rule, the police can arrest you. Fine. That`s all well and good. But if the charging authority -- that would be the solicitor (ph) misdemeanor, the district attorney felony charges -- do not formally charge you in 33 days, they cut you loose, OK?

MOSS: That`s absolutely correct. But I have a feeling that right before the deadline, they are going to make that charge. I think the police know way more than they`re saying. I think that`s the fact that -- the reason why we haven`t had an Amber Alert issued.

GRACE: What do you mean by that?

MOSS: Well, there`s been no Amber Alert issued. When there is a child who is missing, standard operating procedure, you issue an Amber Alert. The authorities have never done that. I bet there`s a reason why.

GRACE: And please explain yourself. No need to be cryptic. You`re on national TV. Let`s not do secrets. Sue Moss?

MOSS: Oh, I`m sorry. Well, you know, I think that they`re holding back because they`re just waiting for more and more evidence. This Friday, we`re expecting the DNA results. And if those DNA results show that this is the DNA from Caylee, you know, game over.

GRACE: You know, to Dr. Michael Arnall from Denver, Colorado, board- certified forensic pathologist -- Dr. Arnall, they found exactly where the cadaver dog hit in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car, over the right rear tag light -- they found fluid, which they picked up with a black or ultraviolet light, and they found hair. Now, at first, they said the hair looked like that of Caylee Anthony. How do you compare -- it is mitochondrial DNA, which matches up to the mother -- how do you compare hair with the naked eye? Is it Caylee`s or is it Casey`s?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: With the naked eye, they`re going to look at the color and the length of the hair, and they`re going to compare it probably with hair that`s on the child`s hairbrush in the child`s room. That`s what they`ll do with the naked eye. They can repeat that examination using a microscope.

GRACE: Rosie, let`s put up some photos. You`ve got the mom`s hair, which may be treated. Maybe she`s gotten highlights. Maybe she`s using hairspray or gel. Then you`ve got the little girl`s hair, which would be some of the same mitochondrial DNA match, but you would see no highlights. You would see probably no hair spray or gel.

Everybody, you`re seeing video from WKMG. That`s Local6.com. This is mom, Casey, with newborn daughter Caylee Anthony. These are just-released photos of the mom with the little girl, obviously in much, much happier times.

Back to you, Dr. Arnall. So with just the naked eye, you`d be looking at length. You`d be looking at if there`s hair coloring on the hair. Then under a microscope, you`d look to see if there was hairspray or a gel. We`re trying to figure out, Is the hair in the trunk Caylee Anthony`s hair? Doctor?

ARNALL: Right. No, they can do the mitochondrial DNA on the hair shaft itself. If a little piece of the hair follicle came with the hair, there may be complete cells in that hair follicle and they might be able to get...

GRACE: And Dr. Arnall, isn`t it true that a darkened band appears on hair post-mortem after death?

ARNALL: I`m not -- I`m not sure on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Caylee is missing. Casey has not been charged for anything. She`d be standing right here by all of us. She`d be searching, if she could.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: Get off your (DELETED) and look for my granddaughter. I don`t care if this is on the news or what. She`s out there.

They`re working as hard as they can to find Caylee, and that`s the goal. I`m sick and tired of hearing -- you know, she`s already tried and convicted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, we`re all sick and tired of hearing Casey Anthony stonewalling police. This is her, just a few days after Caylee reportedly goes missing, at the "hot body" contest at a local bar.

To Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist joining us tonight out of New York. What do you make of these photos?

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, they`re very disturbing, Nancy. I mean, clearly, this does not look like a woman who`s in distress and anguish over not speaking with her child. I could see if she said that, you know, she thought the child was in good hands, but she hadn`t talked to her in five days. I can`t go a day without talking to my children.

GRACE: I`m just looking at these photos, frankly, in stunned disbelief. And you know, I thought, Dr. Taylor, that I knew all about what crime victims go through, having been one myself and represented them in court for so long. But once I had children, I just can`t take in feeling like that after your 2-year-old girl is gone. Gone!

TAYLOR: Well, it definitely indicates a disconnect between your emotion and your capability of reason, and really follows into someone who`s not -- doesn`t look like they`re feeling a lot of anguish and no guilt or remorse or anything. I mean, they`re very, very distressing photos.

GRACE: Susan Moss, Anne Bremner, Doug Burns -- what about it, Doug Burns? What do you tell your client?

BURNS: Well, you know what? Those photos, I mean, as explained from a psychiatric point of view, are terrible. But in a courtroom, they really don`t prove a heck of a lot of anything.

GRACE: You don`t think so, Doug?

BURNS: Proves nothing, other than the woman is acting in a bizarre fashion. And so what you would argue is that she was so distressed that she went in the other direction. I know it sounds crazy, but I don`t think that would prove -- I don`t think it proves a thing.

GRACE: Yes, it does. Anne Bremner?

BREMNER: Well, I agree. Crazy, but it could work.

GRACE: Susan?

MOSS: Survey says no way!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am right along with the rest of America, going, I don`t understand. I`m confused. I just keep saying what I know in my heart is that I can`t believe that she would hurt her child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: So you know, how has the -- that letter been?

CASEY ANTHONY: Well, when I get a chance to actually write a little bit more, I should be able to do that within the next little bit, since I have some, I guess, quote, "rec time."

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony told local media his daughter gave him a letter that could have clues about Caylee`s disappearance, but her attorney says the letter doesn`t exist.

GEORGE ANTHONY: My daughter told me, she says, Dad, I`ve written some things. I`ll give it to Mr. Baez. And that`s all she said to me. And I said, OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Has Casey Anthony been caught in yet another lie to her own father, telling him she`s given this detailed letter of clues and evidence to attorney Baez, when Baez himself says, I don`t know what you`re talking about, that whole thing is fabricated. There`s no such letter, there`s no such thing. Playing off her father and her lawyer. Who knows what the truth is.

Another little quirk in Florida law, everybody, is after 21 days, if you`re being held in jail and you have not been formally charged, you can demand a hearing, a preliminary hearing where you hear all the evidence.

What about it, Doug Burns? Do you think the defense will want to have that hearing and get to cross-examine the state`s witnesses, or do they want to hush up all the evidence?

BURNS: No, I think they probably would want to have that opportunity. But as I said earlier, and I`ll repeat it, I mean, in other words, you have to draw the distinction between a preliminary charge and a formal one. If you`re indicted, then speedy trial clock would be much longer. Here, if you get held on a preliminary charge, you`ve got to be brought in 21 or 30 days. I think they`re going to want the hearing, but they will indict to prevent it, if they have the evidence.

GRACE: And that hearing would be Wednesday, this Wednesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING 2-YEAR-OLD CAYLEE: Waste my call sitting in, oh, the jail.

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: Who`s fault is.

CASEY: Sorry?

CINDY: Who`s fault is it you sitting in the jail? You`re blaming me that you`re sitting in the jail?

CASEY: Not my fault.

CINDY: Blame yourself for telling lies. What do you mean it`s not your fault? What do you mean it`s not your fault, sweetheart? If you had told them the truth, and not lied about everything, they wouldn`t.

CASEY: Do me a favor, just tell me what Tony`s number is. I don`t want to talk to you right now. Forget it.

CINDY: I don`t have his number.

CASEY: Well, get it from Lee because I know Lee`s at the house. I saw Mallory`s car was out front. It was just on the news. They were just live outside the house.

CINDY: I know they were.

CASEY: Well?

CINDY: Well.

CASEY: Can you get Tony`s number for me so I can call him?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Under Florida law, if you`re in jail and you`ve been held 21 days, you can demand a preliminary hearing to hear what the state`s evidence is as to why they are holding you. So this would be the time -- Wednesday is the day, that`s 48 hours from now -- where defense attorney Baez can either put up or shut up.

You keep saying why is the state holding her, why is the state holding her? Well, find out. Demand a hearing. Put the cops up on the stand. Put the detective on the stand. Cross-examine them. Hold the state`s feet to the fire and we`ll find out why the state is holding your client. Or you can just hush it up and just go along business as usual.

We are taking your calls. To Nancy in Michigan, hi, Nancy.

NANCY, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hi there, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: Hi, dear. I`m good.

NANCY: Love your babies, honey.

GRACE: Well, you know, actually, I want to tell you thank you because today is their 9-month birthday.

NANCY: Wonderful. They`re beautiful.

GRACE: And without all the prayers and the kind thoughts of you all, I don`t think the three of us would be here today.

NANCY: They`re beautiful.

GRACE: So I`m very grateful.

What`s your question, dear?

NANCY: My question is, I`m a grandmother. I have grandchildren. And I would die for them. I don`t understand why they`re not more concerned over the baby than that spoiled brat daughter of theirs who doesn`t grieve.

GRACE: Well, you know, Nancy, when I heard the grandmother Cindy Anthony on the telephone with 911, she was, on one of the calls, hysterical about Caylee being gone. And now it feels like she`s just starting to feed into everything Casey is saying.

Casey Anthony, the mom, of Caylee, now saying that she believes, quote -- quote, "Caylee is nearby and will be back for her 3rd birthday," which is this Saturday. The family planning to have a birthday party for little Caylee whether she`s there or not, a birthday party is going to go down.

To Karen in Ohio, hi, Karen.

KAREN, OHIO RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am, thank you for calling.

KAREN: Yes, I love you. I was just wondering, Casey continues to say she knows where Caylee is at, she`s safe, close to home, blah, blah, blah. Do you think it`s possible someone that she does know is holding Caylee like a collateral, for, like, a deal bond?

GRACE: Collateral for what?

KAREN: For maybe a deal gone bad. She`s so money hungry. Maybe she stole money and -- or borrowed money and never paid it back. Something like that?

GRACE: Interesting. Let`s go out to private investigator and author Vito Colucci. How feasible is that? And, look, I`m all for it if that means Caylee is alive. But it`s hard for me to get past two independent cadaver dogs hitting on Casey Anthony`s trunk, her car trunk, when the little girl goes missing.

They don`t hit on old pizza. They don`t hit on animal remains if she ran over an animal on the highway. They only hit on human remains, Vito.

VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "INSIDE THE PRIVATE EYES OF A PI": That`s right, Nancy. I`m not buying into that she actually knows where this child is, maybe not in the sense that she`s explaining it.

You know, this is bad. This whole case is bad. You know what did her father do, a trained cop? Every cop that I`ve known myself, once you find a dead body as a police officer, that smell never leaves you. And that`s what he said initially. She knows what`s going on. She`s like a mafia, head mafia, in this jail cell dictating orders to all of her underlings. And everybody`s getting a little bit aggravated. I can tell you as a cop they`re getting very aggravated with this, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, Vito, it doesn`t make sense to tell her grandfather, when her grandfather says where is Caylee and she won`t say. She doesn`t know, but yet she says on the other side of her mouth Caylee is nearby and she`ll be home this weekend.

Doesn`t make sense, and Vito Colucci -- private investigator and author of "Inside the Private Eyes of an -- a PI"-- Vito, let`s talk about this black light, this ultraviolet light that was used to find samples, fluid samples, in the trunk of that car.

What is it and what does it pick up?

COLUCCI: Well, they`re looking for anything. They`re looking for anything at all they can get to test, OK -- the hair, like you talked about with the doctor before. Anything that they sent out for DNA. You know this woman, I feel, within the next week, will be arrested because of the items they found in the trunk.

They know they`re running against time. They do not want this woman out. It will pick up anything at all that could be helpful, any DNA, hair, anything at all in there.

GRACE: To Dr. Michael Arnall joining us from Denver, what is the light that they used on the trunk and what will it pick up that the naked eye cannot see?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It`s an alternate frequency of light. It shows things in a different fashion. And it does pick up body fluids better than standard light does to the naked eye.

GRACE: So is it an ultraviolet light? It`s a black light?

ARNALL: Right. It`s the black light -- there`s different frequencies that they can use. It may not be just one light. They can use different frequencies with this device and it just -- by using different frequencies, it helps pick up things that aren`t seen with the full standard light.

GRACE: OK, Dr. Arnall, help us understand. All right. We flick on a light. Got it. All right. We flick on a fluorescent light. I understand that`s a different kind of light than your desk lamp.

What kind of light are you talking about? Like an ultraviolet light that you`d shine on a black light poster? What is it?

ARNALL: Specific frequencies of light. And they have specific glasses they can put on that allow the viewer to see the scene at specific frequencies of light.

GRACE: So would that pick up, for instance, blood or cadaver fluid that the naked eye or a regular, like the sunlight, wouldn`t see?

ARNALL: Exactly.

GRACE: I get it. I get it.

Out to the lines, to Denise in Tennessee, hi, Denise. Do I have Denise, Rosie? Karen in Kentucky, hi, Karen.

KAREN, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy, it`s great to talk to you.

GRACE: Hi, dear.

KAREN: Maybe I`m naive, but I would like the defense attorneys to explain to me -- and perhaps you can as well, because you used to be a defense attorney -- wouldn`t you agree that most innocent people, people with nothing to hide, they don`t lie? Am I being naive or.

GRACE: Well, Karen in Kentucky, first of all, I was never a defense attorney. I was always a prosecutor, a felony prosecutor.

Innocent people, I wouldn`t say that they don`t lie. But I always use Marc Klaas as the perfect example. You`ve seen him here on our show many, many times. His daughter, Polly, was kidnapped, molested and murdered. When police first came to his door, he said, polygraph me, take my DNA, search my house, search my car, do it now, quickly, so you can go on and find the person that took my daughter.

All right? Now, I see your point. Let`s talk about it. Out to psychiatrist Dr. Janet Taylor, M.D., joining us out of New York, explain it better than I did. I`m using lay person`s terms.

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Explain the definition of a pathological liar or the fact that -- I mean, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior and in this case, with Casey, she -- there`s documented lies that she`s told even after the investigation started.

So it`s not really a matter of her being innocent or guilty. It`s the fact that she`s capable of telling lies to save herself from getting into trouble and to blame other people.

GRACE: You know, Dr. Taylor, one of our defense attorneys -- I think it was Doug Burns -- says these photos don`t prove a thing. And you know, speaking as a lawyer, it`s not DNA. It`s not an eyewitness. It`s not a confession. But to me it does speak volumes.

TAYLOR: Well, it speaks volumes from the sense of a behavioral standpoint. And when you`re looking at a disorder, let`s say a personality disorder or a different profile of an individual, what they may be capable of, certainly you want to examine their behavior and behavior around an incident.

Now I`m not an attorney, obviously, but certainly in my own practice that means a lot when you`re looking at that. And those pictures do not indicate someone who`s in extreme distress about the loss of their child.

GRACE: To Anne Bremner, what is she doing at a hot body contest after her daughter is missing?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t.

GRACE: I don`t think it`s funny. I`m not.

BREMNER: I think it`s horrible but let`s talk about the truths about deception with this defendant. You look at John Mark Karr, lied all the time, was innocent. Look at Joran Van Der Sloot, lied all the time, never charged. I mean those are the facts, Nancy, the truth about the deception.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My gas cans were stolen on the 24th of June. I mean there`s a report about that. They just wanted to come in and they`re lining everything up. They`re doing a thorough investigation. I said, whatever you guys want to take from my house, you want to take the shingles off the roof, I don`t care. You do what you need to do to bring my granddaughter back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What they`re saying about in the trunk of the car?

CINDY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots it stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.

GRACE: To Tracy Sergeant, she`s here with her detection dog Sinco, they`re both from Homeland Security.

Tracy, do cadaver dogs actually alert on food ever?

TRACY SERGEANT, HOMELAND SECURITY: No, ma`am, they do not. That`s one of the training things we do with these dogs, that any distraction we might find out there, they are trained off of that. They are only to alert to human remains scent.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Welcome back. A lot of developments in the search for 2-year- old Caylee Anthony. We now learn grandparents meeting behind closed doors with police for hours today trying to re-establish the timeline.

Out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150, the timeline once again in disarray. How does an ex-boyfriend play into that?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: The ex-boyfriend told investigators -- well, he`s kind of recanting his story, as a matter of fact. Jesse Grubbs says that he thought he heard Caylee on the phone during a conversation with Casey. But since that time he says, maybe I just didn`t hear her. Maybe it was just Casey I heard. So he`s recanted. And he`s kind of backed off his story he told authorities.

GRACE: And this is a former Orlando cop?

WILLIAMS: Yes, I believe so, Nancy. And I`d have to check on that but, yes, because she was dating somebody who was working with the Orlando Police Department at the time.

GRACE: OK. So let me get this straight. This guy, Jesse Grund, former boyfriend, says to police, I called Casey Anthony June 24 and I heard her reprimand Caylee for being on a table and I heard Caylee in the background. Now he`s saying he`s not sure he heard Caylee in the background or he may be confusing the dates that he heard that scenario take place?

WILLIAMS: Yes. And the deal is.

GRACE: Gotcha.

WILLIAMS: The deal is that when Casey -- you know, you`d think she reprimanded Caylee. She may not have even been there, you know?

GRACE: Or he -- right. He may have heard that but Caylee wasn`t there because he didn`t hear her.

WILLIAMS: Right.

GRACE: OK, so Nikki Pierce with WDBO, that sets the timeline back to June 16th. First the mom placed the -- grandmother placed it on June 9, I believe it was -- no, June 8. Then suddenly she realized they were all together on Father`s Day, June 15, because she took video of Caylee on Father`s Day. The grandfather, I believe it is, saw Caylee the following morning, June 16.

Now is that the jumping-off point, June 16? Is that the day we`re working with now?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Yes. Ever since Jesse Grund recanted his original statement to police, which I believe was yesterday or earlier today, that sets the timeline back to Father`s day, June 16th. That is the last confirmed sighting of Caylee now.

GRACE: OK. June 16, a Monday morning. The Monday following Father`s Day. That`s the day we`re looking at as the last day Caylee was seen alive.

Now these photos that have just emerged in the hours before we go to air are of on -- aren`t they, Mark Williams, the 20th?

WILLIAMS: They`re five days after she was -- that she basically disappeared from the family. So it would be the 20th. There she is.

GRACE: And this is where she is.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: All right. And she also says Caylee goes missing on the 16th. Is that correct, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: That`s pretty much it right there, Nancy. You hit it on the head. And five days later she`s out bumping and grinding with her friends at the Fusion nightclub.

GRACE: I`m just having a hard time absorbing these photos, everyone.

Out to the lines, Denise in Tennessee. Hi, Denise.

DENISE, TENNESSEE RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Love you, love the show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

DENISE: I`ve got a question. If all of the forensics and stuff comes back negative, could they charge her with child endangerment or something like that?

GRACE: They absolutely can.

Rosie, let`s pull down the sound of the judge speaking to her regarding child neglect and child endangerment.

Explain, Susan Moss.

SUSAN MOSS, CHILD ADVOCATE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Well, when a -- parents have obligations to take care of their children. And when they don`t, when they don`t meet that strict obligation, they can be charged with either neglect or endangerment. And that can lead to actually a felony. And in this case, I think that`s what`s going to happen.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Beverly in Canada. Hi, Beverly.

BEVERLY, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call and congratulations.

GRACE: Thank you for calling. Thank you.

BEVERLY: . on your nine-month birthday of your little ones. And I wish every parent would love and adore their children the way you do.

GRACE: Thank you.

BEVERLY: We need someone like you in Canada, believe me.

GRACE: Thank you. I take that as the highest compliment. What`s your question, dear?

BEVERLY: OK. The deceased father of little Caylee, I wonder if his parents are alive and, as the grandparents of little Caylee, has anybody from the authorities contacted them to see if they -- when was the last time they`ve seen Caylee or can they provide any information or assistance that may help the case and also give some insight as to that crazy mother that this little one has got?

GRACE: Nikki Pierce with WDBO, what do we know about that?

PIERCE: Well, investigators say that Caylee`s father is deceased and through an arrangement with Casey, his name isn`t even on the birth certificate.

Cindy, Caylee`s grandmother, has told the media that the paternal grandparents may not even know that they have a grandchild. So as far as we know, they`re not a factor at all in this case.

GRACE: It`s my understanding police have already investigated that avenue and have come up dry. I was mentioning in response to Denise in Tennessee what the judge had to say about child neglect. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss Anthony, the court would say to you, where is Caylee Anthony? Well, I can`t -- I can`t force you to answer that question. But that`s the question I leave with you. Do you understand?

CASEY: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You left your 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist in an apartment you cannot identify and you`ve lied to your parents and friends concerning your child`s whereabouts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Straight out to the lines, to Kim in Canada, hi, Kim.

KIM, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, you are a remarkable lady and a wonderful mother.

GRACE: Thank you.

KIM: Just -- you are amazing.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

KIM: I want to know what are the police doing to look for this little girl. And why are the grandparents so interested in defending their daughter and not looking for this little girl?

GRACE: Kim, I do believe the grandparents are looking for her. I really do. However, they`re also tunnel vision on the fact that they are getting sucked into everything that Casey Anthony is telling them. You`re right.

And as far as what the police are doing, in a nutshell, Mark Williams, I notice they have not done an AMBER Alert which was mentioned earlier. AMBER Alerts are issued when they think someone is missing. They believe she`s dead.

WILLIAMS: That`s what one of the investigators said a couple of week ago during Casey`s initial bond hearing. He got on the stand, and the prosecutor said what do you think happened to Casey? And -- or Caylee? And he says we think she`s dead, because that was after the cadaver dogs hit on two locations that find human bodies.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Katie, Tennessee. Hi, Katie.

KATIE, TENNESSEE RESIDENT: Oh, Nancy, we just love you so much.

GRACE: Thank you to my friends in Tennessee. What`s your question, dear?

KATIE: The authorities dug where the grandparents live, where the cadaver dogs sniffed. Do you -- what did they find there?

GRACE: They hit in the backyard under that playhouse you keep seeing and in the back of Casey Anthony`s car trunk, they have found nothing except for those hair and fluid samples so far. The test results supposed to be back this week.

To Tennessee, Katie, thank you for calling in.

Everybody, let`s stop and remember, Army Sergeant Gregory Unruh, 28, Dickinson, Texas, killed, Iraq. A University of Houston grad. Awarded the Army Achievement medal, National Defense Service medal, an Iraq Campaign medal.

Graduating high school at 16. Fellow soldiers nicknamed him "Professor." Dreamed of law school and starting a family. Leaves behind parents Anthony and Sue, one sister, three brothers and widow Memette(ph).

Gregory Unruh, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0808/04/ng.01.html

[NM]

Bond Hearing
It looks like a reporter giving updates during the hearing.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_local_orlandocrime/caylee_anthony/index.html

Court officials opened the courtroom at 1:30 p.m. More than 20 reporters filled the benches along with a dozen other onlookers, including some from the State Attorney's Office.
Orange Circuit Court Judge Stan Strickland just entered. We're waiting for the defense attorney, Jose Baez, who is not here. Casey Anthony is sitting along at the defense table. Her family is not here.

********

Baez is here. It's starting. He's looking for his first witness but doesn't see the person -- one of Casey Anthony's parents. Baez says he just saw them downstairs.
He tells the judge he has three witnesses.

********
Cindy Anthony takes the stand. She starts to cry because she has not seen Casey since she was arrested. Casey Anthony also looks as if she is crying.
Cindy Anthony has gained composure and is answering questions.
When she confronted Casey about Caylee, it was around 7 p.m. and says Caylee was with babysitter. She had been with Casey for an hour and half before she tried to alert police.
She called Orange County Sheriff's Office around 9 or 10 p.m. that night. Casey Anthony heard her call deputies. Casey did not attempt to leave the house.
Deputies seperated mother and daughter when they arrived.

********
Cindy says deputies took Casey shortly after midnight Tuesday. "This is the firs time I have physically seen her," she said.
Casey did call the house that night  and requested a phone number from her parents.
Cindy describes her daughter as her best friend -- after her husband. She spoke to her daughter almost everyday before this started. She had no reason to doubt Caylee's whereabouts.
Cindy believes either she or Casey's brother can help Casey get to the "bottom of the truth."
And Casey should be released because "she had not committed a crime," Cindy testified.
"Casey has not done anything. There is no evidence she has done anything," Cindy said, adding she would pay for the bond.


********
Prosecutor Linda Drane-Burdick is questioning Cindy Anthony now. She asking about how much equity the Anthonys have in the house to help post bond.
Cindy says she will find a way to pay the bond. She hasn't thought about other assets the family has to get her daughter out of jail.

********
Drane-Burdick questions mom about whether the family has defaulted on any financial obligations.
Defense objected but judge allowed prosecutor to continue.
"It's painful it's relevant," the judge said.

********
The prosecutor questions mom about where Casey works. Cindy says an event planner at Universal Studios and Hard Rock Cafe -- possibly as a subcontractor.
Cindy replies that she has learned from the cops that Casey did not work anywhere.
Casey told mom she worked as an event coordinator for about a year but, Cindy has never seen a pay stub. Cindy does give her money at times. Parents buy groceries and stuff. Casey doesn't have to do anything but provide spending money for herself, Cindy says.

********
Prior to Caylee's birth, Casey did work at Kodak and then Color Vision at Universal Studios, Cindy told the prosecutor.
She knows that because family did not pay for Caylee's birth.
Mom keeps saying she has not slept or eaten and keeps getting dates wrong.

********
Cindy tells the prosecutor she thought the last time she saw Caylee was on June 9 but now she says it was June 15.
"Casey and Caylee were living with you at that time, correct?" the prosecutor asks.
"Yes," Cindy says.
Both in Casey's bedroom at the Anthony's house. After that, they did not stay at the house.

********
People will be able to watch her or "Casey-sit" if Casey is released from jail, Cindy says.
Casey is sitting at the defense table listening. At times, she is wiping tears with a tissue.

********
Casey's dad, George Anthony, takes the stand. His voice cracks. Casey starts crying more.
He says he is willing to do anything to find Caylee. He has cooperated with law enforcement, George says. Baez - Casey's attorney - is asking about the night deputies were called.

********
George talks about how Casey and her brother have a close relationship. She may tell him things that she would not tell her parents, George says.
And, George says, he can ensure that his daughter would show up for any court hearings.
Lawyers are done questioning Casey's dad.
Casey's brother, Lee Anthony, is on the stand now.

********
Lee tried to keep his mom from calling police because Casey appeared to know where Caylee was located. He thought he could talk to Casey and the family could get Caylee in the morning, Lee explainsed.
Baez asked if Lee thinks he can get Casey to tell him things that will help in the search for Casey.
"I have no doubt in my mind," Lee said.

********
On the July 15, Casey maintained before Cindy called authorities that she knew where Caylee was and she would take family there in the morning, Lee told the prosecutor.
Before deputies arrived, Lee said he pleaded with sister and that's when Casey told him ---- "I have not seen my daughter in 31 days."
At the defense table, Casey is crying again.


********
Detective Yuri Melich is on the stand now.
The prosecutor is asking about Casey's car - a white Pontiac- that was registered to Casey's father.
It was recovered at Amscot - a check-cashing business - on Goldenrod and Colonial.
Crime scene investigators have the car now. There was talk about a smell in the car, and that's why cops seized the car.  The smell was decomposition, Melich said. They are trying to find out why the car smelled that way.

********
Here's what cops have found in the trunk of Casey's car so far:
Hair that appears to match Caylee.
Dirt.
Questionable stains that show up under a black light.
The Anthonys say trash was left in the car. On Thursday, investigators got the trash from George Anthony and are still investigating whether it's the source of the "decomposing" smell. It has not been determined yet.
The detective testified that he believes "the two smells are not the same."

********
Scene in the courtroom:
Casey's face has changed. She is no longer crying. Her face is blank.
Casey's parents are crying as they listen to the detective.

********
So far, the detectives have not found anyone who has seen the child since June 15. Cindy Anthony was the last person who could confirm seeing Caylee, Melich testified.

********

Cops have spoken to someone who says he heard Caylee in the background of a phone call on June 24 or June 25, Melich said. The caller was on the phone with Casey when he heard Caylee. At one point during the call, Casey told Caylee to "get off the table," Melich said.

********
Casey's attorney asked the detective if Casey ever requested an attorney before her arrest.
She never did, Melich said.
Baez also asked if the detective has had any breaks during the investigation or has been on vacation. Melich says yes -- but prosecutor objects to questioning. Baez then moves on to another subject.

********
Deputy Jason Forgey is on the stand now. He is a dog handler. His dog, Gerus, is trained as a cadaver dog.
On July 17, Garus was used to search Casey's car for the smell of human remains. He alerted to the vehicle -- he jumped into the trunk.
The dog alerted to the odor of human decomposition in the trunk.

********
Gerus and another cadaver dog both alerted to smells of human decomposition in the Anthony's backyard, Forgey testifed. That's one reason why cops began digging in backyard.
But no body has been found yet -- Baez points out.

********
Both the state and defense are done with witnesses.
The legal arguments are beginning.

********
Baez -- He says the judge needs to look at the law. The laws says she is entitled to a bond. She has no criminal history and it's the state's burden to prove she would not show up for court or that she has physically harmed her child. There is circumstantial evidence that a homicide may have occurred. But cops don't feel confident enough to charge her...They should not try to use the court as punishment and figure maybe she'll crack under the pressure. The court needs to look at the crimes she is charged with and allow her to have a bond. She could hold the key to finding her daughter.
It seems the opposite is true. It's saying if she lets me out

********
Drane-Burdick: The prosecutor is asking to hold her on a bond that is high enough that it would ensure her appearance before the court.
Cops would prefer her to remain in jail on no bond.
The state is requesting more than $500,000 and to restrict her ability from "galavanting about the community" and remain on some type of confinement.
Baez: He is requesting $10,000 so the family can afford the bond.

********
Judge Stan Strickland set bond at $500,000 plus he ordered her to have a GPS devise attached.
"I don't think I can please anyone," the judge said.
Casey is crying as deputies escort her out of the courtroom.

********

[mrskub]

On the Record with Greta Van Susteren  8/13/08

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 13, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, we are live in Orlando, and for the first time ever, the jailed mother's June roommate goes "On the Record." Clint House spent many, many hours with Casey Anthony in the crucial days in June both before and after her daughter, Caylee's, disappearance. Clint was also a DJ at the infamous Club Fusian, where Casey was seen partying on June 20 while she says she was looking for her missing daughter.

Casey has been locked in a jail not far from here since July 16 for lying to investigators and failing to report her daughter missing for more than a month.

Moments ago, we spoke to Clint House.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: ... With Tony and with Casey in June, is that right?

CLINT HOUSE, FORMER ROOMMATE OF CASEY'S BOYFRIEND: I listened (ph) in.
Related

    *
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          o Phone Log: What Caylee's Mom's Calls Could Reveal in Search for Missing Tot
          o Caylee Search: Psychics, Jail Visits Refused, 'Body Farm' Techniques
          o Barack Obama vs. FOX News Channel
          o A Closer Look at the Caylee Anthony Disappearance Timeline

      Full-page Interview Archive
      Stories
          o Caylee's Grandfather: Missing Tot's 'Kidnapper' Under Surveillance
          o Missing Florida Tot's Uncle Cancels Another Jail Visit With Child's Mom
          o Mother of Missing Florida Girl Cancels Jailhouse Visit With Parents
          o Team of Psychic Detectives Aid Police in Search for Missing Florida Girl
          o Third Birthday of Missing Florida Toddler Comes With No Sign of the Girl
          o Missing Florida Toddler's Mom to Ask Again for Bond Reduction, Pond Search Conducted
          o Formal State Criminal Charges Filed in Missing Florida Toddler Case, DNA Tests Complete
          o Third Caylee Vigil Held as Missing Tot's Mom Tells Grandfather 'She's Close'
          o CSI Team Visits Home of Missing Florida Toddler's Grandparents
          o Mother of Missing Florida Toddler Makes Small Talk With Family
          o Lower Bond Denied for Missing Florida Tot's Mom
          o Video May Be Released of Missing Florida Girl's Grandmother Jailhouse Meeting With Daughter
          o Missing Florida Girl's Grandmother Says Daughter Is Innocent
          o Missing Florida Girl's Grandmother Asks Police to Arrest Daughter for 'Grand Theft' in 911 Call
          o Judge Sets Bond at $500G for Mother of Missing Florida Tot, Police Name Her 'Person of Interest'
          o Grandma Defends Daughter, Asks Public for Help Finding Missing Toddler
          o Detectives Dig Through Backyard of Missing Florida Toddler's Grandparents for Clues
          o 'Compulsive Liar' Florida Mother Arrested in Toddler's Disappearance Last Month
      Video
          o Watch: Casey Associate, Part 1
          o Watch: Casey Associate, Part 2
      Photo Essays
          o Search for Missing Caylee
      Links
          o Caylee Anthony Case: Full Coverage
      Show Info
      Airs Weekdays at 10 p.m. ET
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          o Greta Van Susteren's Bio
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          o Interview Archive
          o Greta's Pod Cast

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Back me up. How do you know Tony?

HOUSE: Me and Tony, we went to school together. We were business partners. We've been friends for, you know, about a year now.

VAN SUSTEREN: When did you first move into Tony's place?

HOUSE: A few months before he met Casey.

Watch Greta's Interview, Part 1 | Part 2

VAN SUSTEREN: So you remember meeting Casey.

HOUSE: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Where did you meet Casey?

HOUSE: At a party that we threw for a friend of ours May 24 was our friend's 24th birthday, and we had a party for him, and Casey came to it.

VAN SUSTEREN: How did Tony meet Casey?

HOUSE: I believe it was through Facebook they met.

VAN SUSTEREN: And this was some time before that.

HOUSE: Yes, before that, and Tony had told Casey to come to the party.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to Casey that night?

HOUSE: Oh, yes. We were playing, you know, drinking games together, and you know, all hanging out, and that's when we first met her.

VAN SUSTEREN: And as well as Tony? That's when Tony first met her?

HOUSE: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What was your first impression?

HOUSE: She seemed like she was a great girl. I mean, I told Tony that, you know, he needed to -- I say rife (ph) her up because she seemed like she was a good girl. She was very nice. She was outgoing with all of our friends and everything, so she seemed like a good person.

VAN SUSTEREN: So on May 24, that first night that you spoke to her and drinking games, did she tell you anything about her?

HOUSE: Not anything, you know, out -- that didn't seem normal. She was just, you know, Hey, I work for Universal Studios. You know, she did tell us she had a daughter. Tony knew she had a daughter before he met her. So just, you know, random conversation, just nothing too serious.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Tony seemed to like her, and she seemed to like Tony?

HOUSE: Oh, yes. Very much so.

VAN SUSTEREN: No doubt about it.

HOUSE: No doubt about it.

VAN SUSTEREN: That night, the May 24, did she go home?

HOUSE: Yes, she did.

VAN SUSTEREN: When was the next time you saw her?

HOUSE: The next time I can remember seeing her was when she came out to Fusian Friday night.

VAN SUSTEREN: What day of the -- what...

HOUSE: That would be a Friday.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember what part of June?

HOUSE: May 30 was the Friday that was the next Friday after the party that we had thrown for our friend.

VAN SUSTEREN: So six days later, she comes to the place. What -- did you talk to her then?

HOUSE: Yes, just, you know, Hi, how're you doing? What's going on? Just friendly conversation.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she -- how much did she have to drink that night?

HOUSE: I can't tell you. I have no idea.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was she drunk?

HOUSE: I can't remember. I was working and I was deejaying, so I don't really know.

VAN SUSTEREN: And Tony was there?

HOUSE: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she leave and go home, or did she go back to yours and Tony's place?

HOUSE: She came back to the place with Tony.

VAN SUSTEREN: Spent the night?

HOUSE: Uh-huh.

VAN SUSTEREN: So that brings us into May 31. Did she then stay at Tony's until you moved out? You moved out on July 1, right, or about then?

HOUSE: July 1, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Did she stay at Tony's beginning May 31 until July 1?

HOUSE: It wasn't for another couple of weeks before she started really being over there for a long time, long periods of time, without Caylee. But up until probably the second week in June, she was, like, going back and forth, between, you know, I guess her grandparents' -- or her parents' home or a friend's house or -- you know, we -- she told us that she was always going, you know, somewhere, and we believed her, so...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she say whether or not she got along with her parents? Did she like her family?

HOUSE: She said she liked her family, and she -- it seemed like she had a pretty good relationship with her parents because I know there was a couple times where she'd be on the phone with her mom. Seemed like they had a pretty good relationship.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you ever hear her lie to her mother?

HOUSE: Not about anything that I would know about, you know?

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So she didn't say on the phone, I'm in Jacksonville, and she was sitting there right there.

HOUSE: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nothing like that.

HOUSE: No, nothing like that.

VAN SUSTEREN: When did you first meet Caylee?

HOUSE: Met Caylee probably a week after the first time we met Casey. She brought Caylee over and introduced, you know, Tony to Casey, introduced -- to Caylee, introduced us to Caylee. So it was probably about a week after the first time we met Casey.

VAN SUSTEREN: So would that be about the 30th or is that beyond another week?

HOUSE: Probably the -- like, the 29th, 30th. It was right after we had met her.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did you think of Caylee?

HOUSE: The most precious little girl I've ever seen in my entire life. When she would be in a room, she lit the room up.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you spend any time alone with her?

HOUSE: Yes, I did. There was a couple times when Tony and Casey would be, you know, hanging out and doing something, and I would have Caylee in the living room, playing with her, teaching her words and watching TV with her. She loved "The Pink Panther."

VAN SUSTEREN: How would you describe Casey's relationship with Caylee in front of you?

HOUSE: Fantastic. As far as I could tell, they had one of the best relationships a mother-daughter could have. Casey never yelled at her. She always had a -- she had a little box of cards that she would always do, like, little flash with different pictures and different shapes and different colors that she would have Caylee name out in front of her. She -- she seemed like she was a very good mother to her.

VAN SUSTEREN: Never short-tempered in front of...

HOUSE: Never short-tempered. No, not -- nothing out of the ordinary. Like, maybe yelling, like, Don't go outside, you know, right now because Caylee would always try to run out the front door whenever they were getting ready to leave, and you know, Casey'd be, like, Come back inside. But you know, that -- nothing -- nothing too serious.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me pick an arbitrary date, June 15, which is the day before Father's Day, which was on a Sunday. Up until the time of June 15, did Casey, if you know, go off to work? Did she leave during the day?

HOUSE: Yes, she did.

VAN SUSTEREN: What time would she leave?

HOUSE: She would be gone right before I would leave. I would leave for school -- we would leave about the same time. I left for school -- I had to go to classes at 9:00 o'clock in the morning, so I would leave about 8:30. So she'd be getting ready to leave about the same time.

VAN SUSTEREN: Would she take Caylee with her?

HOUSE: Caylee never stayed the night over.

VAN SUSTEREN: So she just brought Caylee over during the day, and you met her, but otherwise, she stayed at the grandparents'?

HOUSE: Uh-huh.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever mention Zenaida Gonzalez?

HOUSE: Not once. Never heard that name at all.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you seen the apartment on television, where supposedly she was living?

HOUSE: Yes, I have seen that apartment.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know that apartment?

HOUSE: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know if Tony knows that apartment?

HOUSE: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: So let's go to this arbitrary June 15 I picked, that Saturday before Father's Day. The next day is Father's Day. Do you remember Father's Day?

HOUSE: Yes, but I was up in Jacksonville.

VAN SUSTEREN: With your own father.

HOUSE: With my own father. Yes, ma'am.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to Tony or Casey and know where they are?

HOUSE: No, I was too busy hanging out with my dad and...

VAN SUSTEREN: When did you return from Jacksonville?

HOUSE: On Sunday, the 16th.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember if Sunday night, Casey was there?

HOUSE: I believe so, yes, she was there. Caylee wasn't there. You know, like I said, I was still staying there up until July 1. She was there a lot, you know? It's really kind of hard to put a number on the times that she was there, but she was there a lot.

VAN SUSTEREN: So when Caylee was there during the day and you met Caylee, would she then take Caylee someplace and then come back and spend the night alone?

HOUSE: Yes, ma'am.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you have any idea -- did she ever say where she was taking Caylee?

HOUSE: She said she was taking her home, and we all figured that "home" meant back to Casey's parents' house.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So fast-forward again to Father's Day, June 15. You returned later that day. You think Casey spent the night there, that Sunday night. Do you remember waking up that next day, the day after Father's Day?

HOUSE: Yes, Monday for class.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember seeing Caylee?

HOUSE: No, Caylee was not -- like I said, Caylee never spent the night over there, so...

VAN SUSTEREN: How about Casey? Was Casey there that morning, if you remember?

HOUSE: I can't recall.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember anything at all about June 16?

HOUSE: I mean, nothing out of the ordinary. Just a regular day to me.

VAN SUSTEREN: Between June 16 and July 1, when you moved out, was Casey still coming to see Tony and spending the night?

HOUSE: Yes, and it became more frequent and being almost every single night, she was staying there.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember that week of right after Father's Day? Anything unusual that week?

HOUSE: Nothing unusual, besides the fact that Caylee was never there anymore. We always asked her, you know, Where's Caylee at? Oh, she's with her grandparents, or, She's at the beach with the nanny. But nothing -- I mean, other than that -- it didn't strike me as unusual at the time, but other than that, nothing, no.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. July 1, when you moved out -- did you talk to her in the days leading up to July 1?

HOUSE: No. I mean...

VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, like, the 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, did you see Casey?

HOUSE: Yes, I saw Casey.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did Casey mention Caylee, where was she then? Not at all?

HOUSE: Not at all.

VAN SUSTEREN: When did she stop saying that Caylee -- if you remember, about when -- when did she stop saying Caylee was at the grandparents'?

HOUSE: She never stopped saying that. That was the only thing she ever told us.

VAN SUSTEREN: So up until July 1, was she still saying that Caylee was with the grandparents? And what's your level of certainty that she was still up until July 1 saying that Caylee was at the grandparents'?

HOUSE: Positive.

VAN SUSTEREN: Positive?

HOUSE: Positive. She always -- any time we ever asked her, any time any of my friends over asked her where Caylee was, she always said she was with the grandparents.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up, more of your interview with Clint House. Caylee's grandparents said they last saw Caylee on June 16. Did Casey ever talk about where her daughter was after that important date? You will hear.

And later: Casey Anthony is isolated, locked in a tiny cell most of the day. What does she do for hours on end? What does she eat? What is she reading? Everything Casey does is a clue. We will tell you the details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Caylee Anthony's grandparents say they last saw Caylee on June 16. We continue now with Clint House, who lived with Caylee's now- jailed mother and her boyfriend in June.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: After Father's Day, which is the 16th, do you know what car she was driving?

HOUSE: She had the white Sunfire.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever change cars?

HOUSE: No, she always had the same car.

VAN SUSTEREN: And you were under the assumption she was going to work every day.

HOUSE: Yes, ma'am.

VAN SUSTEREN: And that Caylee was at the grandparents'.

HOUSE: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: And there was nothing peculiar, no red flag.

HOUSE: No red flag, no.

VAN SUSTEREN: How about with Tony? Did he ever say anything was odd?

HOUSE: He never said anything was odd.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did it look like the relationship was blossoming?

HOUSE: It seemed like they were, you know, becoming pretty good, pretty tight in their relationship.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was Caylee a problem at all for Tony?

HOUSE: I don't -- no, I don't think so. But like I said, I don't really want to talk about Tony. I don't want to put any words in Tony's mouth. When Tony's ready to talk about anything, he's going to talk about it. But I don't want to discuss Tony.

VAN SUSTEREN: But did you ever see him -- did he ever make a crack about -- about Caylee in front of you or say anything that sort of...

HOUSE: No, nothing negative about Caylee.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nothing...

HOUSE: He liked Caylee. We all liked Caylee.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you moved out July 1. Between July 1 and July 14, did you have any contact with Casey?

HOUSE: No, ma'am.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to her?

HOUSE: No, ma'am.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was she going to that bar, the one where you were a DJ?

HOUSE: I stopped. I stopped doing the Friday nights with them at the end of June.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you see Tony at all during that period between July 1 and July 15?

HOUSE: No, I did not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to him on the phone?

HOUSE: No, I did not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why did you move out?

HOUSE: I needed my own place to stay. I was kind of staying at Tony's place for free. And I needed my own apartment, and I didn't want to really, you know, leach off of Tony. And so I needed my own place to go, and I found a place to live, so I moved.

VAN SUSTEREN: July 15 is the day the grandmother calls the police. She makes a series of 911 calls, and in one of them, notifies the police that her granddaughter, Caylee, is missing. How soon after that did you first learn that Caylee was missing?

HOUSE: The day of, or the day after everything -- as soon as I saw a news article that was released, that was when -- I think it was, like, July 16.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know -- did you talk to Casey after that point?

HOUSE: No, I did not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to Tony after that point?

HOUSE: Yes, I did.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know how Tony learned about Caylee being -- had disappeared?

HOUSE: Casey was at his apartment whenever her mother came to get her.

VAN SUSTEREN: What was that scenario like, when the mother came?

HOUSE: I don't know. I wasn't there.

VAN SUSTEREN: Any problems, though? Was the mother mad?

HOUSE: I don't know. I wasn't there.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So that's how Tony learns about it, and you learn about it the next day. And since then, do you know -- have you heard anything from Casey or Tony about the missing Caylee?

HOUSE: Me and Tony have talked about it, of course. This is a pretty big story. But I have not talked to Casey, no.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know the relationship now between Casey and Tony?

HOUSE: No, I do not.

VAN SUSTEREN: So you don't know if it's still ongoing?

HOUSE: I'm pretty sure that it's not.

VAN SUSTEREN: He hasn't been to jail to see her.

HOUSE: No, he has not.

VAN SUSTEREN: So give me your overall view of Casey. If I met her someplace -- let's say that I met her out here and we were introduced, what would I think about her?

HOUSE: You'd probably think she was a good girl, like we all did.

VAN SUSTEREN: So how does this surprise you?

HOUSE: Wouldn't you be surprised if somebody that was hanging out with you and your friends, like, all of a sudden, her daughter's missing and she's out partying?

VAN SUSTEREN: Meaning on the 20th, when the pictures -- were you there that night?

HOUSE: Yes, I was.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember being on the 20th -- there on the 20th?

HOUSE: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember who took the pictures?

HOUSE: Yes, I do.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was she having a good time the 20th?

HOUSE: Yes, she was.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nothing peculiar?

HOUSE: Nothing peculiar, no.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, she's been -- people have said that she's lied about things, lied about her job. You knew about that.

HOUSE: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Surprise you?

HOUSE: That she lied to (INAUDIBLE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she lie any other way to you?

HOUSE: She did say that she was trying to go back to school. I don't think that was true, either. She did tell me a story about the father of Caylee that does not seem to be true.

VAN SUSTEREN: Which was?

HOUSE: That the father died in a car accident on the way to one of Caylee's birthday parties.

VAN SUSTEREN: When she told you this, she look you right in the eye and tell you this?

HOUSE: Yes, she did.

VAN SUSTEREN: And not for one second did you suspect her.

HOUSE: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: And she never said Casey (SIC) had been kidnapped? Or Caylee, rather.

HOUSE: You mean Caylee?

VAN SUSTEREN: Yes.

HOUSE: No. She never -- she never said anything to anybody.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever act scared?

HOUSE: No. She acted completely normal.

VAN SUSTEREN: Everything was fine.

HOUSE: Everything was fine.

VAN SUSTEREN: Anything else you want to add about...

HOUSE: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: Strange, isn't it.

HOUSE: Yes, it is. It's very strange.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,403801,00.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Police Say Photo Not Missing Caylee

Aired August 13, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for eight long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Has a photo emerged on little Caylee taken after she goes missing? Local reports, sources within police believe little Caylee is dead. Police vehemently deny that report. But for two consecutive days, they send out the elite K-9 cadaver dogs go out to search for the little girl, police honing in on the 72 hours just after Caylee last seen alive, Father`s Day weekend. Phone records reveal a mysterious flurry of calls from mom, Casey, to parents` work and cell phones over those 72 hours, police now attempting to ping or trace mom, Casey`s, calls retroactively, and then identify locations where mom, Casey, may have traveled during that time.

Mom, Casey, still turning away jailhouse visits from her own family and now in protective custody behind bars, the clock ticking on DNA results from hair and fluid discovered in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. With more criminal charges pending, where is 3-year-old little Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source close to this investigation tells us detectives now believe something happened to Caylee. They have no reason to believe Casey would hurt her daughter, that source says. So they reason it could have been an accident, perhaps a drowning. Maybe she was left in a hot car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing to indicate that she`s not alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever the case, our source tells us they believe it happened June 16. That`s the day she was last seen by her grandfather. And hours later, they report, a flurry of phone calls made by Casey.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a flurry of phone calls from Casey Anthony to her parents. They don`t know why because she couldn`t reach her parents. And that`s obviously the day that investigators believe that little Caylee disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports say investigators are also now trying to pinpoint the whereabouts of tot mom Casey Anthony on June 16, 17 and 18, which is right after the toddler was last seen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was gone for 31 days. Her own mother doesn`t know exactly where she was those 31 days. So we have to try to put pieces together to try to figure out, at any given day, where could she have been.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.

911 OPERATOR: Why are you calling now? Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?

CASEY ANTHONY: I have been looking for her.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey is the key to this investigation. She knows what she did. She knows what time was the last time she saw the child, who she may have left the child with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source close to the sheriff`s office reportedly told a local Orlando station that police have a theory that focuses on the idea that Caylee may be dead. Other TV reports say deputies are focusing on three days in mid-June, when Casey Anthony says she turned over her daughter to a babysitter. They`re said to be trying to track the mother`s whereabouts during that time.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s (DELETED) listening to anything that I`m saying.

The (DELETED) detectives told them (DELETED) (DELETED). They want all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff. They`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators hope to develop potential search areas by tracking the cell phone towers that Casey`s phone hit on the 16th, 17th and 18th. During those three days, Casey spent time with boyfriend Tony Lazzaro (ph). And according to our source, Lazzaro has told them he never saw Caylee, never saw Casey show concern for Caylee`s whereabouts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How important is it that your deputies (INAUDIBLE) one time with Casey to try and get some answers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very important. But then again, you know, she doesn`t want to see us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey has the key to this. Casey was the last person ever seen with the child. And we still believe that Casey knows more than what she`s telling us. She`s the only one that can tell us something that can turn this around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Detectives are also looking at the possibility of adding more charges to break this stalemate. There`s the $700 a friend says Casey stole from her, and detectives believe Casey may have used her parents` credit cards without permission. There are also numerous false statements investigators say Casey made early on. All could be potential new charges.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, joining us tonight from WNDB Newstalk. Mark, what`s the latest? What can you tell me about a source deep within the police department, according to local reports, saying that they believe little Caylee is dead?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Bob Khieling (ph) had that report this afternoon on WBSH (ph) Channel 2 here in Orlando, the NBC affiliate. Somebody told him a source who is deep within the department said that some investigators believe that little Caylee Anthony is, in fact, dead. However, during a roundtable this afternoon, late this afternoon, with Orlando-area media, a spokesman for the Orange County sheriff`s department stressed that they have no proof that Caylee is dead and they`re still treating this case as a missing persons story.

Also, Nancy, one of the other things that they`re talking about is what happened starting on Monday, June 16, Tuesday the 17th and Wednesday the 18th. They believe -- investigators right now believe if anything ever happened, little Caylee died on the 16th, which was a Monday, the day after Father`s Day. They theorize that she may have died in an accident.

There were a flurry of phone calls, a half dozen in all, starting at 3:03 PM that Monday afternoon, ending about 4:24 PM, to the mother`s cell phone, the father`s cell phone, as well as her ex-fiance, Jesse Grund (ph), his cell phone. Apparently, she didn`t even get any answers. And she even called her mother, Cindy, at her work and never got her on the phone.

Now, investigators looking at Tuesday, the 17th, in which she borrowed -- Casey borrowed a shovel, very unusual because Casey was not exactly the gardening type. And of course, the following day, the 18th, she backed her car up to the garage, which was very unusual, and then also made a flurry of phone calls starting around noontime, several to her father and to her mother, once again -- again, apparently, no answers right there.

Also, as we documented last night on this show, that the police now taking a look at cell phone calls and cell phone records. As the expert out of Atlantic City mentioned last night, that on your cell phone bill, that`s only the surface. Now they can ping those towers to see where her cell phone hit. They could check the velocity. They can check where that cell phone came from through triangulation.

And of course, the other bombshell tonight was the fact that there was a couple in Orlando who said they saw little Caylee Anthony on July 10 -- they even took pictures -- living in an apartment complex with two individuals. I know we have some pictures of what Orlando police have in their possession right now. It`s a little girl, and it somewhat looks like Caylee. However, she has a hat over her head and you really can`t see her features. Orlando police tonight discounting the fact that it was Caylee Anthony, but those pictures are in their possession right now. And that`s the very latest out of this investigation, Nancy.

GRACE: Now, wait a minute. I`m seeing that photo right now. Rosie, if we can go back to that photo? Here`s the photo that Mark Williams is discussing. This is a photo that, sources state, emerged of little Caylee after she goes missing. Now, Mark, are you telling me police are now saying this is absolutely not her?

WILLIAMS: It`s absolutely not her. There may be some matching features, but with the hat over the head, you really can`t see the face. You can just see some pictures. And they`ve basically discounted what they`re looking at as little Caylee.

GRACE: Hold on. Let`s see it in full, Rosie. Let`s take a look at the little girl in full. This is a photo -- I can`t see her legs. If you could get rid of the Chyron for me on it? This is the photo of a girl, a grainy photo taken, allegedly of Caylee after she goes missing. I believe you said July 10?

WILLIAMS: July 10, that picture was taken by a couple who live there in this apartment complex.

GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Joining us right now, Debbie in Delaware. Hi, Debbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, Casey keeps saying that she left the baby with the babysitter. Well, how did she meet the babysitter? I mean, you don`t randomly leave your child with someone. Did a friend introduce them? Was it through a service? Somebody must know the babysitter.

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, it`s my understanding that mom, Casey Anthony, states she got in touch with this nanny, as she calls her, through someone she worked with there at Universal. Of course, we find out she was fired from Universal. So was one of the people she said that was her "outcry witness" that she told about Caylee being missing. Who allegedly set her up with this pretend babysitter?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Nancy, allegedly, it was Jeffrey Hopkins and Juliet Lewis, the two alleged outcry witnesses also, that she said she worked with at Universal. They supposedly introduced her to Zenaida Gonzalez. But as we know, that`s not true. They haven`t worked together, if ever, in years, the three of them.

GRACE: And Mark Williams, these two people, they did exist, correct?

WILLIAMS: As far as we know, they existed. But who knows? There`s always been this web of lies that Casey has told. As a matter of fact, if you recall, she said she worked at Universal, but heck, she hasn`t worked there for two-and-a-half years.

GRACE: Straight back out to the lines. Jennifer in Virginia. Hi, Jennifer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. We love you here in Virginia. Thank for all that you do.

GRACE: Jennifer, thank you very much. And thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is in relation to the theory of Caylee drowning. I was wondering if in any of those reports if they`ve actually located the bathing suit for Caylee? Has that turned up?

GRACE: To Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk. Mark, the whole theory about her drowning -- is there an aboveground pool in the Anthonys` back yard?

WILLIAMS: Yes, there is. It`s a large pool.

GRACE: And cadaver dogs were brought out there, correct?

WILLIAMS: Yes, that`s the case.

GRACE: But isn`t it true, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, that you have to wait a certain period of time after death before a scent will be released from the body on which cadaver dogs will alert?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes, that`s absolutely true, Nancy. Decomposition actually begins instantly. There are changes within the tissues that take place, something called autolysis (ph) begins, and bacteria start working on the body from outside and inside. But this conversion to these aromatic, these volatile chemicals does take some time, and you`re not going to notice decomposition right away. I don`t believe a cadaver dog or any other technology could detect those substances early on.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Renee Rockwell, trial lawyer out of Atlanta, Alan Ripka, veteran defense attorney joining us out of our New York studios. We`re taking your calls live.

You know, Renee, let`s just break it down. All these theories about an accidental death -- maybe she drowned. Maybe she fell. You know what? If she fell or she drowned by accident, why not call 911?

Do you remember when baby John David fell off the bed? He fell off the bed just as I was going to work. I didn`t run and try to bury his body out in the back yard. No. I ran out in the street with the baby wailing, trying to hail a cab to get him to the doctor. When we got there, he had a red mark right there, which disappeared. I had nothing to show to the doctor.

So all this about it may have been an accident -- where`s 911? Where are the police? Where are the attempts to try to save the baby? Where`s calling the neighbors? It didn`t happen that way!

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, but you can`t compare yourself to this young lady. First of all, she has acted very mysteriously for a number of reasons. But the worst thing that she`s doing for herself, Nancy, is she keeps talking and talking. All she`s doing is telling more and more stories, more lies.

What is interesting, Nancy, is that they`re piling these charges on not to keep her in jail because they think there are criminal charges that are going to stick. I think they`re trying to break her down, Nancy, and they`re waiting for her to break. She`s not seeing her parents. She`s not really seeing visitors. And eventually, I think they`re waiting for her just to come forward and tell it all.

GRACE: Oh, Alan Ripka, I could not disagree more. Rosie, pull that sound for me of the judge regarding child neglect. These charges are going to stick, Alan Ripka.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the charges may wind up sticking, but Nancy, I think they did it because they have a certain timeframe in which to charge her. And if they don`t charge her, they have to release her.

GRACE: She`s been charged! She`s been charged.

RIPKA: I understand that. But they have to charge her with murder or something like that. They charged her with these things, I believe, so that they would keep her in jail, and they did so wrongfully. I believe they`re doing it to...

GRACE: Why do you say they did so wrongfully?

RIPKA: Because at the end of the day, this is not -- it`s not necessary to charge her with child neglect if they think she murdered the child.

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. That`s a non sequitur. That does not follow. She is charged with child neglect, according to a judge and a prosecutor, because she handed the baby over to someone irresponsibly, who then kidnapped the baby, someone by her own admission she can`t locate, doesn`t know where they live, doesn`t have a phone number, nada, zilch.

RIPKA: But they don`t believe it. They don`t believe she handed the baby over to the babysitter.

GRACE: But by her own admission, if she did what she claims she did, that`s child neglect.

RIPKA: OK, so are those the charges? So in other words...

(CROSSTALK)

RIPKA: That`s all they believe she did, then. Is that true? No.

GRACE: But that doesn`t matter. That doesn`t matter. You`re saying that the charges against her are incorrect. They are not incorrect.

RIPKA: Well, at the end of the day, Nancy, they either believe there was an accident or she murdered the baby, or they believe she turned her over to a babysitter. Which one is it? Which one is it?

GRACE: Well, Alan, once again, you have danced away from the question. The issue is, you said the charges were incorrect. Why is a child neglect charge incorrect? Please limit yourself to that answer.

RIPKA: Because I believe that they believe there was no babysitter.

GRACE: You believe...

RIPKA: They have proof there`s no babysitter, right?

GRACE: ... they believe...

RIPKA: Well, Nancy, that`s the reason. They know there was no babysitter...

GRACE: Therefore, they should have charged her!

RIPKA: With what?

GRACE: At this juncture, child neglect, until they have more evidence.

RIPKA: If nothing else, they have her lying to the authorities about the babysitter and about her whereabouts.

GRACE: Obstruction?

RIPKA: Obstruction, potentially. But certainly not child neglect.

GRACE: OK. Out to the lines. Nicole in Arizona. Hi, Nicole.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was curious as to if anyone had any reason for this woman`s hostility towards the media and her attitude in general. I myself have a 2-year-old son, and if anything happened to him, I wouldn`t be being quite so rude. I would be lobbying the media to find out what I could, should I not be the one who did anything to my child.

GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s go to psychologist Caryn Stark. What about it, Caryn?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, this is not your typical person, Nancy. This is somebody who doesn`t have those kind of feelings. And absolutely, if it were you caller, she would do something about it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anything happens to Caylee, Casey, I`ll die! You understand? I`ll die if anything happens to that baby!

CASEY ANTHONY: Whoa. Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, huge waste.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A source close to this investigation tells us detectives now believe something happened to Caylee. It could have been an accident, perhaps a drowning. Maybe she was left in a hot car. Whatever the case, our source tells us they believe it happened June 16. That`s the day she was last seen by her grandfather. And hours later, they report, a flurry of phone calls made by Casey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That flurry of phone calls made to her parents at their cell and their work unanswered. But it is interesting, isn`t it, Mark Williams, that according to what we heard grandmother Cindy say on the telephone, no messages were left about her, Caylee, being in danger because remember, on that 911 call, she turns to mom, Casey, and says, You know what? I`m going to go to court and get this baby away from you. If there had been a message left on her phone during that flurry of phone calls saying, Oh, Mom, there`s been an accident, Caylee`s hurt, Caylee`s dead, Caylee`s something, she would not have said that to Casey one month later.

WILLIAMS: Well, you hit the nail on the head with that one, yes. And I`m surprised that Casey never left any messages on their voice-mail. As you know, with most cell phone services and even with any home service, that you usually can leave an e-mail or a voice-mail. And apparently, she didn`t do that.

GRACE: And of course, we know that the location of those cell phone calls can be tracked to within, basically, one block, so cops should know by now where she was when she was making those frantic phone calls to her family and be able to determine where they should be looking for any remains or any signs of Caylee, Mark.

WILLIAMS: That`s right. And also, you know, there was a small search party organized today in the Blanchard Park area, close to their house in east Orange County. It`s a jogging trail, and it`s a nice place for hundreds of people to either jog or walk. But this is the same area where a jogger was murdered just two months ago. So they`re looking for something over there. They didn`t turn up anything.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CYNTHIA ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Other TV reports say deputies are focusing on three dates in mid-June, when Casey Anthony says she turned over her daughter to a babysitter. They`re said to be trying to track the mother`s whereabouts during that time. She`s been held on half a million dollars bond, charges of child neglect and filing a false statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us there in Orlando, just outside the Anthony home tonight, along with our producer, Natisha Lance, is Colleen Klocek and Moolah. She`s a K-9 instructor/trainer and member of the Body Hunter team, along with her dog, Moolah. Ladies, thank you for being with us. To you, Colleen. What`s the latest in the search you took part in today?

COLLEEN KLOCEK, K-9 INSTRUCTOR/TRAINER: Well, actually, we went to several locations. We went to the area over by the Anthony home. There`s an elementary school. There`s ones (ph) across from there. We searched that area. We also went to another area on La Vista (ph). We searched there, came up with nothing. We`ve been searching very, very thorough, for that matter.

GRACE: Colleen? Colleen...

KLOCEK: Yes?

GRACE: ... what is leading you to these specific areas?

KLOCEK: A lot of it is the team members and their feelings, things that have driven them there, their feelings, different things that we`re sort of putting together as far as, you know, location-wise, like the difference in, like, the flowers, the woods, the grassy fields, things like that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Web of lies, that`s what police say they`re dealing with in the search for Caylee Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Not only did Casey Anthony wait a month to report her daughter missing, but she sent investigators on a wild goose chase.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Who has her? Do you have a name?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This Zenaida Gonzalez that has been (INAUDIBLE) to us by Casey is nonexistent to this point.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When police checked with the office here, they were told nobody by that name lived here. In fact, the apartment Casey has said Zenaida lived in has been vacant for more than a year.

ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ-GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER: For all the people in Florida, why would you choose my name? You know if I don`t know you and never met you, why would you choose my name?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She is the last person to have seen Caylee that we can rely on to give us valid information. She hasn`t done that to this point.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Is Casey Anthony lying to protect herself or her daughter? Investigators wish they knew.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Straight back down to Orlando, just outside the Anthony home, standing by, Natisha Lance, along with Colleen Klocek and her cadaver dog, Moolah.

Back to you, Colleen, is it possible for your dog to mistake the scent of a human with that of an animal?

COLLEEN KLOCEK, K-9 INSTRUCTOR, TRAINER, MEMBER OF BODYHUNTER TEAM: Absolutely not. My dog is trained solely on cadaver scent. And animal scent is totally different from a human cadaver.

GRACE: And how long did you guys search today?

KLOCEK: Approximately nine hours.

GRACE: How many of you are searching?

KLOCEK: Pardon?

GRACE: How many of you are out searching?

KLOCEK: There is four of us, plus two dogs.

GRACE: Colleen, where are you from?

KLOCEK: I am from Toledo, Ohio.

GRACE: And you`ve come all the way from Toledo to join in the search for Caylee?

KLOCEK: Yes, absolutely.

GRACE: Where did you get your dog?

KLOCEK: Actually she was from a rescue.

GRACE: Let`s go now to Natisha Lance, our producer there on the scene.

Natisha, what can you tell me?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, I went out searching with them today. We started about 11:00 a.m. this morning. And going back to hitting on animal bones, there were some animal bones that the dogs came across and they did not even flinch. They went right past them.

Actually you can probably see on the video that she even held it up to the dog`s nose and they did not hit on it whatsoever. They did a grid perimeter search first.

And this is the elementary school where investigators have searched previously which is very near to the Anthony home. It`s called Hidden Oaks Elementary School. It`s a heavily wooded area. But we didn`t find anything out there today.

GRACE: Natisha, I want to go to another note. Authorities had a round table discussion -- hold on, Moolah, I`ll come to you just a moment. A round table discussion they called it today. What did we learn?

LANCE: Well, there wasn`t much that we learned. We were hoping that they would shed light on some new things so we really learned no more and no less. What they did tell us, though, is that when and if they get credible tips, they will be out with their search -- cadaver dogs searching for Caylee, exhausting all their resources as much as possible.

However, they would not speak to specifics in terms of timeline or in terms of phone records. They said anything that is specific to this case they are going to keep it under wraps right now because they don`t want anybody going on any wild goose chases out in the public.

GRACE: Natisha, I want to talk for a moment about the jail, the jail where mom, Casey Anthony, is being housed right now. I understand she is in the protective custody. Here is video of the jail where Casey Anthony is housed.

What can you tell me about a day in the life for Casey Anthony?

LANCE: That`s right. She`s in protective custody, which means that she is away from all the other inmates. She gets about an hour a day of rec time where -- in which that time she can shower, she can make phone calls. Occasionally if the weather permitting, she can go to an atrium area and get some fresh air.

She also has books available to her from the library. She does not have a pen and paper. Her attorney, Jose Baez, was actually trying to get her a pen and paper. But, however, that was not allowed for her. But she does have a lot of free time. She`s in a 7x12 foot cell just with a bed, a sink and a toilet.

GRACE: And long story short -- let`s go to Vince Velasquez, homicide detective, hostage negotiator. She`s go it good in protective custody. Explain, Vince, why it is more desirable behind bars to be in protective custody?

VINCE VELASQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO AREA, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Well, Nancy, basically, from what I understand, the family has been getting threats. So I would assume that there may be some inmates in the jail that are sympathetic to, you know, the cause of the family and this missing girl.

So she definitely -- if the family is getting threats, I would -- suppose that she would be, too. So it`s a good idea to have her by herself isolated. It`s the last thing the police want, the jail wants, is anything happening to her, her claiming mall treatment or anything like that, because it`s a very delicate situation at this time.

GRACE: Back to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Alan Ripka.

You know, Renee, very often when I was dealing with rats in the courthouse, they want to be in either the medical ward or protective custody. Why?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, because there`s not too much protection at the jailhouse. And another thing, sometimes if you`re an attorney, you don`t want your client all snuggled up to anybody else because a lot of those rats are going to go in that jail cell and call the prosecutor and say, well, guess what this jail mate told me? She told me A, B and C. And a lot of times the states gets witnesses from.

GRACE: Well.

ROCKWELL: . from jail mates.

GRACE: The bottom line is the conditions are much better, the living conditions are much better behind bars if you`re on the medical ward or you are in protective custody. You don`t have a roommate. You`re not in with general population. You get a lot more attention and better treatment if you are in protective custody. That`s the bottom line.

To Alan Ripka, she is turning away all visits from her family. We have learned that it`s not the family choosing not to come see her, it`s her saying send them away. Why would an inmate do that? Normally they want visits.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, number one, Nancy, she may believe that the family is not supporting her the way they -- you know, they ought to. She also may know that conversations are being taped and that the family may be saying things to her that can inculpate her, because they`re confused as well.

So she`s made this decision probably along with her attorney to stop these kinds of conversations.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, renown forensic scientist, joining us tonight.

Kobi, what do you make of the air sample taken out of the trunk of mom Casey`s car being sent to the body farm to test the actual air within the trunk and the car? And also, if this child died accidentally on the 16th to the 18th, would we be able to determine cause of death if her remains were found today?

Well, the answer to the second question is that if it`s been two months, and it`s quite possible depending upon environmental conditions, decomposition could be so bad that the body, if there`s a body, is skeletonized. And if that`s the case, cause of death may be impossible to determine.

Getting back to the first question, what is really key -- I think that the technology is reliable to identify those components of decomposition to indicate that whatever the stain is, it`s decomposed flesh or fluid. And what`s really key is, if you find Caylee`s DNA there, now you`ve got real signs of death of Caylee.

GRACE: And quickly, Dr. Kobi, if she is deceased, will the DNA show she is deceased?

KOBILINSKY: No, absolutely not.

GRACE: Unless it`s -- unless it`s fluid from the body?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it will be fragmented due to decomposition and oxidizing damage. But, no, you can`t tell.

GRACE: OK.

KOBILINSKY: . anything about that.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Barbara in Florida. Hi, Barbara.

BARBARA, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, love your show.

GRACE: Thank you for watching and for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

BARBARA: Well, I do have a thought. When the grandfather last saw Casey and Caylee leave the house on June 16th, he said that they both had their backpacks on. And my question is if the police ever found the backpacks or did they search for them?

GRACE: To Mark Williams with WNDB, what can you tell us about them wearing back packs?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, that`s the first time I`ve heard about that -- about the backpacks. You know one of the things that they said is that Casey was wearing those gray slacks with a white dress shirt. And her mother found those in the back of the car. And, again, they smelled as bad as when she called in and said it smells like a dead body, that somebody had died in the back of the car.

And the mother, of course, washing those -- washing those slacks and washed out probably a lot of DNA evidence that the investigators were looking for. But backpacks, I think that`s still up in the air right there, Nancy.

GRACE: As we go to break everyone, while the location or even whether she`s dead or alive, little 3-year-old Caylee is in question, take a look at fine dining mom is enjoying tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I haven`t hired anyone. I do have friends of mine that I`m very close with that are doing a lot of things on their own.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Anybody that knows Casey knows that she is a loving mother and she would do anything, including sit in the jail cell to protect her daughter.

G. ANTHONY: These people that are out there that we feel might have been involved in something, yes, they`re being watched. They might not know. They`re being watched.

C. ANTHONY: But I know she`s given as many leads that she can to us without jeopardizing Caylee`s safety. So -- you know, if she knew where Caylee was at it would be easy.

G. ANTHONY: These people know they`re being watched. They know it. I can.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Who are these people?

G. ANTHONY: I really can`t get into that with you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you think she knows who has her?

C. ANTHONY: Absolutely she knows who has her, I mean, without a doubt.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Miss Anthony, the court would say to you, where is Caylee Anthony? I can`t ask -- I can`t force you to answer that question. But that`s the question I leave with you. Do you understand?

CASEY: Yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: You left a 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist at an apartment you cannot identify and you lied to your parents and friends concerning your child`s whereabouts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Right now police have identified a flurry of phone calls between the dates of the 16th and the 18th of June, just after Father`s Day weekend. They now have a theory that whatever happened to little 3-year- old Caylee happened within those 72 hours.

But, obviously no message was left on either of the phones of the mom or the dad because they still believe 30 days later that little Caylee was fine.

We are taking your calls, out to Sharon in Indiana. Hi, Sharon. Hold on.

To Eileen in New York, hi, Eileen.

EILEEN, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. Thank you for calling in. What`s your question?

EILEEN: I am wondering if Casey has TVs available to her so she`s able to see what`s being said about her and, therefore, being able to cover up some of her lies.

GRACE: She absolutely has access to television, Eileen. And if you`ll recall, in one of her earlier recorded phone calls, she was actually going over media reports or planning to go over them with her attorney, Jose Baez. So clearly they are tailoring what they have to say and their positions to what the media is learning and reporting.

Excellent question.

Do we have Sharon in Indiana?

SHARON, INDIANA RESIDENT: Yes.

GRACE: OK. To Sharon, hi, dear.

SHARON: Hi. We love your show. We watch every night.

GRACE: Thank you and thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

SHARON: My question is, has anybody considered the possibility that maybe since she was so hard up for money and stole gas and stole money that she could have sold Caylee?

GRACE: You know, let`s talk about that just for a moment.

Let`s go back out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO and Mark Williams with WNDB.

Mark Williams, police have seized her computer. They have her phone records. Obviously, if any such attempts were made, it would have turned up on the cell phone or the computer, correct?

WILLIAMS: That`s right. Because, you know, computer hard drives, you can try and delete a computer hard drive, erase it. But still they have the technology that can pull those files back. And, obviously, with the cell phones, authorities trying to ping those -- where those wireless towers were that she was hitting.

And, you know, this is an interesting theory, because if she sold the child into slavery or for drugs or whatever, the deal is, I don`t think anybody in their right mind would want a 2-year-old hanging along if they`re doing elicit trade.

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce, agree or disagree?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, respectfully, I don`t think money was that much of a problem even though she stole those gas cans. I think that she stole the gas cans because she knew she could. She seems to have had access to her parents` credit cards. They gave her housing as well as Caylee and they gave her food.

And she pretended to have a job. But really I don`t think that that`s a possibility, although investigators are open to everything.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Gale St. John, psychic team leader of The Bodyhunters searching for little Caylee Anthony.

Miss St. John, thank you for being with us. What did your search entail today?

GALE ST. JOHN, PSYCHIC, TEAM LEADER, THE BODYHUNTER, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE: Well, we were able to clear quite a few areas today. I mean, you know, we did a search and re-searched in some areas. You know the disappointing part for us is no, we did not turn up anything as of yet. But we do plan to continue the search for tomorrow.

GRACE: And what areas did you search, Miss St. John?

ST. JOHN: There is an area near the grandparents` home across from Hidden Oaks School. We did search that area today. And we also searched another area called (INAUDIBLE). There`s several wooded areas there and we were able to search those areas and clear those areas as well.

GRACE: Miss St. John, you now know that police are looking at a flurry of phone calls between the 16th and the 18th of June made by mom Casey Anthony to her parents. Their theory is that it was during those 72 hours that something happened to little Caylee.

Are you focusing your search around areas where we know mom Casey had been? For instance, the boyfriend`s place, the Anthonys` home, the check cashing company where her car was discovered, the park where she walked, Universal Studios? Are you focusing your search there or going purely on your psychic instinct?

ST. JOHN: Well, we`re doing both at this time. We have to cover have to cover all basis and that`s what`s important. It`s not just purely the psychic end of it. I mean we make sure that, like I said before we don`t leave any stone uncovered. So whether someone brings to our attentions such as this area needs to be searched, has nothing to do with whether we feel it or not, we will go out there and search it, and we have, because we`re also out at Jay Blanchard Park as well.

GRACE: To Caryn Stark, psychologist, joining us out of New York -- Caryn, at this juncture, we have noticed that mom Casey is no closer to cooperating with cops in search for her daughter.

Do you really believe an additional charge, an additional criminal charge, such as theft, would change that?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: No, Nancy, because this woman is a pathological liar, and she doesn`t seem to be affected by the kinds of things we would be. She`s a narcissist, she doesn`t have the same kinds of feelings, and she seems completely indifferent to what`s going on around her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Did you speak with Caylee over the phone at any time?

CASEY: I did one time, yes, and that was actually the date that Mom has called the police.

L. ANTHONY: OK. Do you remember what time you spoke to her?

CASEY: Around noon, it was through a private call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight out to the lines, to Heather in Missouri. Hi, Heather.

HEATHER, MISSOURI RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question?

HEATHER: My question is, in the 911 call, the mother says that Casey has been missing for 30 days. Can the police use the phone records to find out where she`s been in those 30 days and who she was with?

GRACE: Absolutely, Heather in Missouri. She can -- they can find out where she`s been by pinging or triangulating her cell phone calls down to within a block. They can even tell the velocity at which she`s traveling in a car and the direction. So they will know from those cell phone calls where she was, even if your phone is turned on. It is sending a signal to the nearest cell tower, and that`s where they get the ping, off that cell tower.

So, yes, who is she with? Don`t know unless you call from a landline belonging to somebody else. But, yes, they can find that out where she was.

To Karen in Arizona, hi, Karen.

KAREN, ARIZONA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

KAREN: I just want to know where is Caylee`s father in all of this?

GRACE: Caylee`s father is deceased.

Very quickly to Nikki Pierce, what do we know about the biological dad? It`s very hard for me to believe the grandparents when they say they don`t know. Wouldn`t you say who`s the father if your daughter turns up pregnant out of high school?

PIERCE: Well, the short answer is, yes, I think you would say that, but as far as we know, the father is deceased, and the paternal grandparents don`t even know that they have a grandchild. So he`s not in this picture.

GRACE: At least that`s what we have been told.

Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Joseph Gamboa, 34, Yigo, Guam, killed, Iraq. Lost his life two weeks before finishing a second tour. Dedicated to family, loved spear fishing, hanging out with friends, karaoke, bowling. Leaves behind parents Cecilia and Francisco, eight siblings, widow Michelle, five children.

Joseph Gamboa, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us, and happy birthday to friend of the show, Steve Williams, and a special good night from Georgia friends of the show, Chris and Catherine.

Aren`t they beautiful?

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friends.

END


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../13/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

Exclusive: Associate Says Casey-Caylee Anthony Relationship Seemed 'Fantastic'

Thursday, August 14, 2008
  FNC

Clint House, ex-roommate of Casey Anthony's boyfriend, says he didn't see any red flags of trouble between the mom and her now-missing child Caylee.
Clint House, ex-roommate of Casey Anthony's boyfriend, says he didn't see any red flags of trouble between the mom and her now-missing child Caylee.







This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 13, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, we are live in Orlando, and for the first time ever, the jailed mother's June roommate goes "On the Record." Clint House spent many, many hours with Casey Anthony in the crucial days in June both before and after her daughter, Caylee's, disappearance. Clint was also a DJ at the infamous Club Fusian, where Casey was seen partying on June 20 while she says she was looking for her missing daughter.
Casey has been locked in a jail not far from here since July 16 for lying to investigators and failing to report her daughter missing for more than a month.
Moments ago, we spoke to Clint House.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: ... With Tony and with Casey in June, is that right?
CLINT HOUSE, FORMER ROOMMATE OF CASEY'S BOYFRIEND: I listened (ph) in.

Video

Watch: Casey Associate, Part 1
Watch: Casey Associate, Part 2
Links
Caylee Anthony Case: Full Coverage

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Back me up. How do you know Tony?
HOUSE: Me and Tony, we went to school together. We were business partners. We've been friends for, you know, about a year now.
VAN SUSTEREN: When did you first move into Tony's place?
HOUSE: A few months before he met Casey.
Watch Greta's Interview, Part 1 | Part 2
VAN SUSTEREN: So you remember meeting Casey.
HOUSE: Yes, I do.
VAN SUSTEREN: Where did you meet Casey?
HOUSE: At a party that we threw for a friend of ours May 24 was our friend's 24th birthday, and we had a party for him, and Casey came to it.
VAN SUSTEREN: How did Tony meet Casey?
HOUSE: I believe it was through Facebook they met.
VAN SUSTEREN: And this was some time before that.
HOUSE: Yes, before that, and Tony had told Casey to come to the party.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to Casey that night?
HOUSE: Oh, yes. We were playing, you know, drinking games together, and you know, all hanging out, and that's when we first met her.
VAN SUSTEREN: And as well as Tony? That's when Tony first met her?
HOUSE: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: What was your first impression?
HOUSE: She seemed like she was a great girl. I mean, I told Tony that, you know, he needed to -- I say rife (ph) her up because she seemed like she was a good girl. She was very nice. She was outgoing with all of our friends and everything, so she seemed like a good person.
VAN SUSTEREN: So on May 24, that first night that you spoke to her and drinking games, did she tell you anything about her?
HOUSE: Not anything, you know, out -- that didn't seem normal. She was just, you know, Hey, I work for Universal Studios. You know, she did tell us she had a daughter. Tony knew she had a daughter before he met her. So just, you know, random conversation, just nothing too serious.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did Tony seemed to like her, and she seemed to like Tony?
HOUSE: Oh, yes. Very much so.
VAN SUSTEREN: No doubt about it.
HOUSE: No doubt about it.
VAN SUSTEREN: That night, the May 24, did she go home?
HOUSE: Yes, she did.
VAN SUSTEREN: When was the next time you saw her?
HOUSE: The next time I can remember seeing her was when she came out to Fusian Friday night.
VAN SUSTEREN: What day of the -- what...
HOUSE: That would be a Friday.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember what part of June?
HOUSE: May 30 was the Friday that was the next Friday after the party that we had thrown for our friend.
VAN SUSTEREN: So six days later, she comes to the place. What -- did you talk to her then?
HOUSE: Yes, just, you know, Hi, how're you doing? What's going on? Just friendly conversation.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she -- how much did she have to drink that night?
HOUSE: I can't tell you. I have no idea.
VAN SUSTEREN: Was she drunk?
HOUSE: I can't remember. I was working and I was deejaying, so I don't really know.
VAN SUSTEREN: And Tony was there?
HOUSE: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she leave and go home, or did she go back to yours and Tony's place?
HOUSE: She came back to the place with Tony.
VAN SUSTEREN: Spent the night?
HOUSE: Uh-huh.
VAN SUSTEREN: So that brings us into May 31. Did she then stay at Tony's until you moved out? You moved out on July 1, right, or about then?
HOUSE: July 1, yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Did she stay at Tony's beginning May 31 until July 1?
HOUSE: It wasn't for another couple of weeks before she started really being over there for a long time, long periods of time, without Caylee. But up until probably the second week in June, she was, like, going back and forth, between, you know, I guess her grandparents' -- or her parents' home or a friend's house or -- you know, we -- she told us that she was always going, you know, somewhere, and we believed her, so...
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she say whether or not she got along with her parents? Did she like her family?
HOUSE: She said she liked her family, and she -- it seemed like she had a pretty good relationship with her parents because I know there was a couple times where she'd be on the phone with her mom. Seemed like they had a pretty good relationship.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you ever hear her lie to her mother?
HOUSE: Not about anything that I would know about, you know?
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So she didn't say on the phone, I'm in Jacksonville, and she was sitting there right there.
HOUSE: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nothing like that.
HOUSE: No, nothing like that.
VAN SUSTEREN: When did you first meet Caylee?
HOUSE: Met Caylee probably a week after the first time we met Casey. She brought Caylee over and introduced, you know, Tony to Casey, introduced -- to Caylee, introduced us to Caylee. So it was probably about a week after the first time we met Casey.
VAN SUSTEREN: So would that be about the 30th or is that beyond another week?
HOUSE: Probably the -- like, the 29th, 30th. It was right after we had met her.
VAN SUSTEREN: What did you think of Caylee?
HOUSE: The most precious little girl I've ever seen in my entire life. When she would be in a room, she lit the room up.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you spend any time alone with her?
HOUSE: Yes, I did. There was a couple times when Tony and Casey would be, you know, hanging out and doing something, and I would have Caylee in the living room, playing with her, teaching her words and watching TV with her. She loved "The Pink Panther."
VAN SUSTEREN: How would you describe Casey's relationship with Caylee in front of you?
HOUSE: Fantastic. As far as I could tell, they had one of the best relationships a mother-daughter could have. Casey never yelled at her. She always had a -- she had a little box of cards that she would always do, like, little flash with different pictures and different shapes and different colors that she would have Caylee name out in front of her. She -- she seemed like she was a very good mother to her.
VAN SUSTEREN: Never short-tempered in front of...
HOUSE: Never short-tempered. No, not -- nothing out of the ordinary. Like, maybe yelling, like, Don't go outside, you know, right now because Caylee would always try to run out the front door whenever they were getting ready to leave, and you know, Casey'd be, like, Come back inside. But you know, that -- nothing -- nothing too serious.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me pick an arbitrary date, June 15, which is the day before Father's Day, which was on a Sunday. Up until the time of June 15, did Casey, if you know, go off to work? Did she leave during the day?
HOUSE: Yes, she did.
VAN SUSTEREN: What time would she leave?
HOUSE: She would be gone right before I would leave. I would leave for school -- we would leave about the same time. I left for school -- I had to go to classes at 9:00 o'clock in the morning, so I would leave about 8:30. So she'd be getting ready to leave about the same time.
VAN SUSTEREN: Would she take Caylee with her?
HOUSE: Caylee never stayed the night over.
VAN SUSTEREN: So she just brought Caylee over during the day, and you met her, but otherwise, she stayed at the grandparents'?
HOUSE: Uh-huh.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever mention Zenaida Gonzalez?
HOUSE: Not once. Never heard that name at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: Have you seen the apartment on television, where supposedly she was living?
HOUSE: Yes, I have seen that apartment.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know that apartment?
HOUSE: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know if Tony knows that apartment?
HOUSE: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: So let's go to this arbitrary June 15 I picked, that Saturday before Father's Day. The next day is Father's Day. Do you remember Father's Day?
HOUSE: Yes, but I was up in Jacksonville.
VAN SUSTEREN: With your own father.
HOUSE: With my own father. Yes, ma'am.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to Tony or Casey and know where they are?
HOUSE: No, I was too busy hanging out with my dad and...
VAN SUSTEREN: When did you return from Jacksonville?
HOUSE: On Sunday, the 16th.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember if Sunday night, Casey was there?
HOUSE: I believe so, yes, she was there. Caylee wasn't there. You know, like I said, I was still staying there up until July 1. She was there a lot, you know? It's really kind of hard to put a number on the times that she was there, but she was there a lot.
VAN SUSTEREN: So when Caylee was there during the day and you met Caylee, would she then take Caylee someplace and then come back and spend the night alone?
HOUSE: Yes, ma'am.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you have any idea -- did she ever say where she was taking Caylee?
HOUSE: She said she was taking her home, and we all figured that "home" meant back to Casey's parents' house.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So fast-forward again to Father's Day, June 15. You returned later that day. You think Casey spent the night there, that Sunday night. Do you remember waking up that next day, the day after Father's Day?
HOUSE: Yes, Monday for class.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember seeing Caylee?
HOUSE: No, Caylee was not -- like I said, Caylee never spent the night over there, so...
VAN SUSTEREN: How about Casey? Was Casey there that morning, if you remember?
HOUSE: I can't recall.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember anything at all about June 16?
HOUSE: I mean, nothing out of the ordinary. Just a regular day to me.
VAN SUSTEREN: Between June 16 and July 1, when you moved out, was Casey still coming to see Tony and spending the night?
HOUSE: Yes, and it became more frequent and being almost every single night, she was staying there.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember that week of right after Father's Day? Anything unusual that week?
HOUSE: Nothing unusual, besides the fact that Caylee was never there anymore. We always asked her, you know, Where's Caylee at? Oh, she's with her grandparents, or, She's at the beach with the nanny. But nothing -- I mean, other than that -- it didn't strike me as unusual at the time, but other than that, nothing, no.
VAN SUSTEREN: All right. July 1, when you moved out -- did you talk to her in the days leading up to July 1?
HOUSE: No. I mean...
VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, like, the 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, did you see Casey?
HOUSE: Yes, I saw Casey.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did Casey mention Caylee, where was she then? Not at all?
HOUSE: Not at all.
VAN SUSTEREN: When did she stop saying that Caylee -- if you remember, about when -- when did she stop saying Caylee was at the grandparents'?
HOUSE: She never stopped saying that. That was the only thing she ever told us.
VAN SUSTEREN: So up until July 1, was she still saying that Caylee was with the grandparents? And what's your level of certainty that she was still up until July 1 saying that Caylee was at the grandparents'?
HOUSE: Positive.
VAN SUSTEREN: Positive?
HOUSE: Positive. She always -- any time we ever asked her, any time any of my friends over asked her where Caylee was, she always said she was with the grandparents.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Coming up, more of your interview with Clint House. Caylee's grandparents said they last saw Caylee on June 16. Did Casey ever talk about where her daughter was after that important date? You will hear.
And later: Casey Anthony is isolated, locked in a tiny cell most of the day. What does she do for hours on end? What does she eat? What is she reading? Everything Casey does is a clue. We will tell you the details.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VAN SUSTEREN: Caylee Anthony's grandparents say they last saw Caylee on June 16. We continue now with Clint House, who lived with Caylee's now- jailed mother and her boyfriend in June.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VAN SUSTEREN: After Father's Day, which is the 16th, do you know what car she was driving?
HOUSE: She had the white Sunfire.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever change cars?
HOUSE: No, she always had the same car.
VAN SUSTEREN: And you were under the assumption she was going to work every day.
HOUSE: Yes, ma'am.
VAN SUSTEREN: And that Caylee was at the grandparents'.
HOUSE: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: And there was nothing peculiar, no red flag.
HOUSE: No red flag, no.
VAN SUSTEREN: How about with Tony? Did he ever say anything was odd?
HOUSE: He never said anything was odd.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did it look like the relationship was blossoming?
HOUSE: It seemed like they were, you know, becoming pretty good, pretty tight in their relationship.
VAN SUSTEREN: Was Caylee a problem at all for Tony?
HOUSE: I don't -- no, I don't think so. But like I said, I don't really want to talk about Tony. I don't want to put any words in Tony's mouth. When Tony's ready to talk about anything, he's going to talk about it. But I don't want to discuss Tony.
VAN SUSTEREN: But did you ever see him -- did he ever make a crack about -- about Caylee in front of you or say anything that sort of...
HOUSE: No, nothing negative about Caylee.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nothing...
HOUSE: He liked Caylee. We all liked Caylee.
VAN SUSTEREN: So you moved out July 1. Between July 1 and July 14, did you have any contact with Casey?
HOUSE: No, ma'am.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to her?
HOUSE: No, ma'am.
VAN SUSTEREN: Was she going to that bar, the one where you were a DJ?
HOUSE: I stopped. I stopped doing the Friday nights with them at the end of June.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you see Tony at all during that period between July 1 and July 15?
HOUSE: No, I did not.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to him on the phone?
HOUSE: No, I did not.
VAN SUSTEREN: Why did you move out?
HOUSE: I needed my own place to stay. I was kind of staying at Tony's place for free. And I needed my own apartment, and I didn't want to really, you know, leach off of Tony. And so I needed my own place to go, and I found a place to live, so I moved.
VAN SUSTEREN: July 15 is the day the grandmother calls the police. She makes a series of 911 calls, and in one of them, notifies the police that her granddaughter, Caylee, is missing. How soon after that did you first learn that Caylee was missing?
HOUSE: The day of, or the day after everything -- as soon as I saw a news article that was released, that was when -- I think it was, like, July 16.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know -- did you talk to Casey after that point?
HOUSE: No, I did not.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did you talk to Tony after that point?
HOUSE: Yes, I did.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know how Tony learned about Caylee being -- had disappeared?
HOUSE: Casey was at his apartment whenever her mother came to get her.
VAN SUSTEREN: What was that scenario like, when the mother came?
HOUSE: I don't know. I wasn't there.
VAN SUSTEREN: Any problems, though? Was the mother mad?
HOUSE: I don't know. I wasn't there.
VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So that's how Tony learns about it, and you learn about it the next day. And since then, do you know -- have you heard anything from Casey or Tony about the missing Caylee?
HOUSE: Me and Tony have talked about it, of course. This is a pretty big story. But I have not talked to Casey, no.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know the relationship now between Casey and Tony?
HOUSE: No, I do not.
VAN SUSTEREN: So you don't know if it's still ongoing?
HOUSE: I'm pretty sure that it's not.
VAN SUSTEREN: He hasn't been to jail to see her.
HOUSE: No, he has not.
VAN SUSTEREN: So give me your overall view of Casey. If I met her someplace -- let's say that I met her out here and we were introduced, what would I think about her?
HOUSE: You'd probably think she was a good girl, like we all did.
VAN SUSTEREN: So how does this surprise you?
HOUSE: Wouldn't you be surprised if somebody that was hanging out with you and your friends, like, all of a sudden, her daughter's missing and she's out partying?
VAN SUSTEREN: Meaning on the 20th, when the pictures -- were you there that night?
HOUSE: Yes, I was.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember being on the 20th -- there on the 20th?
HOUSE: Yes, I do.
VAN SUSTEREN: Do you remember who took the pictures?
HOUSE: Yes, I do.
VAN SUSTEREN: Was she having a good time the 20th?
HOUSE: Yes, she was.
VAN SUSTEREN: Nothing peculiar?
HOUSE: Nothing peculiar, no.
VAN SUSTEREN: Now, she's been -- people have said that she's lied about things, lied about her job. You knew about that.
HOUSE: Yes.
VAN SUSTEREN: Surprise you?
HOUSE: That she lied to (INAUDIBLE)
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she lie any other way to you?
HOUSE: She did say that she was trying to go back to school. I don't think that was true, either. She did tell me a story about the father of Caylee that does not seem to be true.
VAN SUSTEREN: Which was?
HOUSE: That the father died in a car accident on the way to one of Caylee's birthday parties.
VAN SUSTEREN: When she told you this, she look you right in the eye and tell you this?
HOUSE: Yes, she did.
VAN SUSTEREN: And not for one second did you suspect her.
HOUSE: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: And she never said Casey (SIC) had been kidnapped? Or Caylee, rather.
HOUSE: You mean Caylee?
VAN SUSTEREN: Yes.
HOUSE: No. She never -- she never said anything to anybody.
VAN SUSTEREN: Did she ever act scared?
HOUSE: No. She acted completely normal.
VAN SUSTEREN: Everything was fine.
HOUSE: Everything was fine.
VAN SUSTEREN: Anything else you want to add about...
HOUSE: No.
VAN SUSTEREN: Strange, isn't it.
HOUSE: Yes, it is. It's very strange.

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Bounty Hunter Says He`ll Post Bond for Jailed Tot Mom

Aired August 15, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for eight long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. Mom, Casey Anthony, now set to walk out of jail within 72 hours from now, a California bail bondsman en route to Orlando to put up $50,000 bond. Tonight, he is with us live.

And stunning developments. Cell phone triangulation places mom, Casey, at a remote and isolated area near Orlando`s airport just one day after little Caylee last seen alive, heavily wooded, surrounded by ponds, this after police hone in on 72 hours just after Caylee was last seen alive Father`s Day weekend, including a mysterious flurry of calls from mom, Casey, to parents` work and cell phones.

Just hours ago, grandmother, Cindy Anthony, behind closed doors at police headquarters. Local report, sources within police say little Caylee is dead. And police formally announce no evidence whatsoever to support mom, Casey`s, claims that little Caylee was kidnapped. But will a legal loophole prevent mom, Casey, from ever facing charges more serious than child neglect? The Anthony family hiring a spokesperson to handle media. DNA results are here and fluid discovered in mom, Casey`s, car still under lock and key. We learn investigators are testing 30 separate forensic samples. Tonight, where is little Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her mother, Casey, is going home from jail on Monday. Local reports say a California-based bail bondsman is flying to Orlando to put up the half million dollars required for her release.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 30 days in jail hasn`t worked. A person in jail is hard-pressed to get information from. However, you get them out to where they can talk and take a hot shower and get a good meal, and they become more pliable, more -- in discussing things that have happened.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The report places Casey in a remote, wooded area days after her daughter`s disappearance. No one has seen 3-year-old Caylee Anthony since mid-June.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`ve found a long period of time where the mother was at Orlando airport, and they want to know why did she spend so much time at Orlando airport? Why did she make a significant number of calls there? Well, that could have been the time she was burying a body or something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Caylee`s grandmother has stuck with Casey`s false story about Caylee`s disappearance a week earlier until detectives confronted her with pictures of Caylee visiting with her great-grandfather on Father`s Day, June 15.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: I have not seen her since the 7th of June.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you guys lying to investigators on purpose, misleading them?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Local media say that Casey Anthony is going to be bailed out of jail as of Monday. She`s charged with child neglect, obstruction and making false statements.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not believe that the young -- that the baby -- the 3-year-old is dead. We believe that she misplaced her, did something wrong, but we don`t believe that she`s dead. However, if it turns up that something happened, nothing is lost. I mean, she`s going to be under 24/7 surveillance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are acres of woods and scrub and water in this remote area less than five miles and less than a 10-minute drive from Caylee Anthony`s grandparents` house. Channel 9 has learned that for some reason, Caylee`s mother came to this area the day after Caylee disappeared. Very little traffic comes through this area, and at night it would be very dark here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There were a flurry of phone calls, a half dozen in all, starting at 3:03 PM that Monday afternoon, ending about 4:24 PM, to the mother`s cell phone, the father`s cell phone. Apparently, she even didn`t get any answers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey lied about the day, and the cell phone records are helping investigators find out what else Caylee`s mother has lied about.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So how come everybody`s saying you`re lying?

CASEY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S MOTHER: Because nobody`s (DELETED) listening to anything that I`m saying!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to talk to her because she is the last person to have seen Caylee that we can rely on to give us valid information. And she hasn`t done that to this point.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: They really think a warm shower and a little cable TV on the sofa will make mom, Casey, tell the truth? Out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, what`s the latest?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, breaking news, Nancy, huge developments today. As you`ve mentioned, mom, Casey, could get out of jail as early as Sunday. A famous bounty hunter and his bail bondsman nephew are headed here from California to bail Casey out and set her free.

GRACE: Now, what can you tell me about the bond amount, Nikki? Now, we`re hearing $500,000, but don`t they only have to put up 50 thou?

PIERCE: They would have to put up $50,000 normally, yes, but since this gentleman`s nephew is a bail bondsman, I don`t think they`re going have to.

GRACE: Let`s go straight out to the bounty hunter bailing out Casey Anthony, the mother of missing 3-year-old Caylee. Joining us tonight from Sacramento is Leonard Padilla. Mr. Padilla, thank you for being with us.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Good afternoon. How are you?

GRACE: I`m fine. Who contacted you about this case, sir?

PADILLA: The original contact came from a friend of mine in New York, who suggested that there was something that could be done here. And I myself and my family have gotten involved in high-profile cases in the past, and sometimes it required bailing a person out of jail so they could talk to somebody other than law enforcement.

Obviously, in this particular situation, he put me in contact with the attorney, and I discussed it with the attorney. And as long as there`s no interference with his defense of the young lady or interference with the law enforcement, I said to my nephew, I said, Look, if we get her out of jail, she`s liable to be more pliable as far as talking to somebody. She`s sat in there for 30 days. It hasn`t done law enforcement any good. Let`s take a run at it.

I`m looking at it like this. I don`t think that the 3-year-old is dead. I think she`s alive. I think Casey just handed her off to a baby- sitter. These young ladies, when they`re sometimes on drugs and things of that nature, they don`t remember from one day to the next what they`ve done, and I believe that`s what`s taken place here. Now, I would rather see my theory proved out than to find out that she died, you know, or she had an accident or whatever, you know? I`d rather find Caylee alive.

GRACE: With us tonight in his first primetime exclusive interview all the way from California, about to head en route to Orlando, is bail bondsman, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla.

PADILLA: Yes, I`m a bounty hunter, not a bail bondsman.

GRACE: You just stated that you believe Caylee is alive. Why?

PADILLA: There`s nothing that has been done that proves to me that she`s dead. Cadaver dogs don`t prove to me that she`s dead.

GRACE: Why?

PADILLA: Because I`ve been around this business for 33 years, and I`ve seen cadaver dogs hit on things that sometimes don`t turn out to be the person.

GRACE: When? When did you see that?

PADILLA: I`ve seen it in California on many, many homicides.

GRACE: What homicides?

PADILLA: One in California that was the most recent was a lady and her husband were in jail basically on child neglect charges, and it was a situation where in that particular instance, they found the child dead. They actually found the child dead, but the use of cadaver dogs didn`t prove that she was dead.

GRACE: Well, did the cadaver dogs hit on anything?

PADILLA: No, they didn`t at the time. And the child was buried in the back yard, and we bailed the lady out and she told us within a couple of hours what had happened. They`d killed the child, burned her in the fireplace and buried her in the back yard.

GRACE: So bottom line, the cadaver dogs did not hit on something incorrectly.

PADILLA: Correct.

GRACE: OK. So have you ever seen a cadaver dog, a highly trained cadaver dog, not one but two separate cadaver dogs, hit in the same spot and that spot not be accurate? Have you seen that, Mr. Padilla?

PADILLA: Yes. Yes, I have. Yes.

GRACE: When?

PADILLA: Yes. I can`t remember the last time, but I`ve seen it happen.

GRACE: You stated that you believe Caylee is alive.

PADILLA: Yes, I do.

GRACE: And your reasoning is because of the cadaver dogs?

PADILLA: No, no, no. In other words, if the situation was such that there was more than just what has happened as far as the cadaver dogs, you know, an eyewitness to a situation -- I mean, I understand that she went and borrowed a shovel from a neighbor and she had a couple of empty gas cans in the trunk of her car. These are all very incriminating things. I understand they`re that they`re looking at 30 pieces of DNA that (INAUDIBLE) at the lab.

All of these things individually don`t mean much. But now, if they really put something together, yes, they`ll charge her with a homicide. Me, I`d rather believe that the child is alive and that something has been overlooked.

GRACE: OK. You mentioned that you really firmly...

PADILLA: Yes.

GRACE: ... that Casey Anthony handed the baby off to a baby-sitter.

PADILLA: Correct.

GRACE: What baby-sitter?

PADILLA: Well, I would start with the -- Zenaida.

GRACE: They have started with Zenaida, Zenaida Gonzalez.

PADILLA: Is it the right Zenaida? Is it the correct Zenaida, the right Zenaida? My understanding is law enforcement showed Caylee (SIC) some pictures and she said no, that`s not her, and that they went and got a Zenaida, and she says, I don`t know her and I don`t know the baby.

GRACE: Mr. Padilla, you mentioned that a lot of young mothers on drugs, they hand their baby off. Do you have any evidence that Casey Anthony used drugs?

PADILLA: No. I`m just saying that her actions and her activities suggest to me that she possibly drinks past the point of reasonableness and that she possibly does drugs. Those are the things that I have ascertained by looking at her pictures and things on television. I could be wrong.

GRACE: And Mr. Padilla, you say that you believe getting her out from behind bars will soften her up and she will cooperate with police. Why?

PADILLA: No, she won`t cooperate with police. I don`t think she`ll cooperate with police. I think she`ll cooperate with somebody other than police.

GRACE: Such as?

PADILLA: Well, I have people that have done bounty hunting. We -- you know, we hunt criminals that are gone for sometimes six months to a year, and we have to talk to relatives. We have to cajole girlfriends, boyfriends. I mean, we`re in the business of talking to people and getting information.

GRACE: Joining me, everyone, tonight, in his first exclusive primetime interview, Leonard Padilla, the man heading to Orlando to get Casey Anthony out of jail.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Teresa in West Virginia. Hi, Teresa.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are my hero. I love you.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I disagree respectfully with the bounty hunter. I believe that this young lady has a narcissistic personality disorder, and I believe that her parents are being coached by profilers or someone. One of the comments the mother made was about her daughter being mother of the year when this all comes out.

I don`t believe her parents really are going along with everything she`s saying. I think they are trying to gain her trust, playing up to her ego and hoping that she will tell them the truth. And I was wondering, you know, you probably know more, you know, how the police get people to crack, how they get them to tell the truth. I think your mother and your father would be the first people that you would tell.

GRACE: You know, I think you`re absolutely correct, Teresa in West Virginia. So far, it hasn`t worked with the parents. And we learned about a web of lies told by mom, Casey Anthony, not only to her parents but to her brother, to the boyfriend she was living with intermittently while little Caylee went missing, and even to his roommates. The lies become more and more fantastic.

More breaking news. In addition to Casey Anthony set to walk free 72 hours from right now, we learn that reports have surfaced cell phone triangulation records point to a remote and isolated area near the Orlando airport the day after little Caylee last seen alive.

To Kathi Belich with WFTV. What is the significance? Why does that stand out to police that she was in that area?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, first of all, let me clear up that what I reported was documents showed that she was in that area. The reason it`s significant is I think there`s no reasonable or easy explanation for why she would have been in that area. We won`t name the street involved, but apparently, after having been there, there`s really nothing there. And if you go to the end of the street there`s really nothing. There`s a lot of woods, a lot of brush and a lot of water there. You just look at the area, and you can`t figure out what in the world she would have been doing there.

GRACE: Joining us there in Orlando, Florida, is Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, we`re showing the viewers right now footage of the area in which cops say triangulation places mom, Casey Anthony. Now, when you say there`s nothing there, we are seeing a very heavily-wooded area surrounded by ponds, is that correct?

BELICH: Yes, that is correct. What I mean by nothing is there`s not really a -- there`s not a restaurant, there are not businesses that most people would frequent. There`s no easy explanation as to what she might have been doing in that area. And from what I understand, it`s a break in her routine.

GRACE: Right. To Kathi Belich, joining us there in Orlando. Do we have any idea how long the cell records place her there?

BELICH: No, and I haven`t reported that cell records have placed her there, but I understand it was during the daytime, and that`s really all I know about that at this point.

GRACE: Nikki Pierce with WDBO also joining us. Anything you can add to that, Nikki?

PIERCE: Well, as you just heard from Kathi Belich, she exclusively got that information and did let everyone know about it last night. I know that police had said that there was really no way to prove the amount of time that Casey had spent in that area or if she was simply driving by. The airport is close, so she could have been picking someone up or dropping someone off, as we know she has done in the past.

GRACE: Well, I want to go out to our telecommunications expert joining us out of Raleigh tonight, Ben Levitan. Mr. Levitan, thank you for being with us. When they say they can`t tell how long she was there, can`t they ping or triangulate the particular call, and then as long as that cell phone is on, can`t they get a signal as to where it is?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, that`s right, Nancy. Basically, in that Orlando area around the airport, there are 31 cell towers, and there are on those 31 cell towers a total of 271 antennas. Now, if you`re out on the street, as we`ve described, she could probably get a signal to a cell tower and be connected to the cell tower, even if she wasn`t making a call. But if she walked into the woods, what would happen is every three minutes or so, the cell phone company pings your phone to see if you`re still there and update your location.

Now, if you don`t respond to about the third ping, it just considers you gone, that maybe you turned off your phone. So we could easily determine how long she spent in the woods by finding out in the records when the phone stopped responding to pings, which we would assume is the time that she was in that densely-populated area under a canopy of trees that would not let a signal go through, like being in an elevator with your cell phone.

GRACE: Right.

LEVITAN: And then when she came back out and then was in sight of a cell site again...

GRACE: It would pop back up again.

LEVITAN: ... it would pop back up. That`d give you, I would say, an accuracy of three minutes.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF MISSING TODDLER`S MOM: We love you. And you know, please think of anything that we can help find Caylee because as soon as we can help find her, it`s going to be, you know, open and shut to get you out of there, OK, darling?

CASEY ANTHONY: Absolutely. I know.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a continuous photo of (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look how large it is (INAUDIBLE) people can identify.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s the grandfather.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As for driving...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love it. Two small children? For a second, I`m, like (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your emotions are here, your heart starts beating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody has positive thoughts that little girl`s going to come home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Bombshell. Mom, Casey Anthony, is set to walk out of jail in 72 hours from now. And now we learn, apparently from a leak from within the police department, cell phone triangulation places mom, Casey, at a remote and isolated heavily-wooded area the day after little Caylee last seen alive, out of her normal routine.

We are taking your calls live. Straight out to Bernie Florida. Hi, Bernie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m also a grandmother of twins. And thank you for staying on the case. My question is, when I watch this Casey, it always crosses my mind that she is a pathological liar. I`ve heard it -- you know, referred to her as a pathological liar. My concern is, what creates a pathological liar? And also, what can parents learn not to raise a pathological liar?

GRACE: To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychoanalyst (SIC) and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Lillian, welcome. Tonight we`ve heard terms such as narcissistic personality disorder, pathological liar. Weigh in.

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, basically, you are seeing a lot of pathology with this young woman. She has lied, lied, lied. And you see the fact that there`s something suspicious really going on. There`s a lot of covering up by a lot of people.

GRACE: Lillian, do you really think if Leonard Padilla gets her out of jail, the bounty hunter from Sacramento, that she`s really going to tell the truth just because she gets a hot shower...

GLASS: Absolutely not.

GRACE: ... and a sofa?

GLASS: Absolutely not. And I thought that was rather naive, in listening to the bounty hunter because that`s not going to happen at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we now know is that almost 60 days have passed. What we want to do and are -- most importantly, what we need to do is keep the focus finding Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There are acres of woods and scrub and water in this remote area less than five miles and less than a 10-minute drive from Caylee Anthony`s grandparents` house. There are 37 cell towers in 10 miles around here. Casey lied about the day, and the cell phone records are helping investigators find out what else Caylee`s mother has lied about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Mom, Casey Anthony, is set to walk out of jail 72 hours from now. Joining us right now, the man who plans to get her out of jail, bounty hunter from California, Leonard Padilla. We are taking your calls live.

Mr. Padilla, earlier you said that you believe mom, Casey, may have, quote, "misplaced" Caylee.

PADILLA: That`s correct.

GRACE: What did you mean? How do you misplace a baby?

PADILLA: I think there`s...

GRACE: I mean, I`ve got two of them, and it`s very hard to misplace them.

PADILLA: Well, let me tell you, I walked out of Keisar (ph) Stadium in San Francisco after a soccer match in 1970, and I turned to my wife and I says, Where`s Julie? And she says, Don`t you have her? And it took us one hour of hell...

GRACE: One hour. Well...

PADILLA: ... of hell before a woman, a wife of one of the Brazilian soccer team players, took her away from a woman...

GRACE: Let me get back to...

PADILLA: ... took her away from a woman that was leading her away.

GRACE: Why do you think Casey has misplaced Caylee?

PADILLA: Because I think she`s on drugs and I think she drinks, and I think she passed her off to a baby-sitter so she could spend more time without being bothered, with her boyfriend. And the next thing is, she can`t find baby-sitter. And then when she does...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Miss Anthony, the court would say to you where is Caylee Anthony?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The timeline in this case before now has been unclear, June 15th. It is now the date detectives feel most certain the toddler was last seen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time you saw Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I know for a fact it was June 15th.

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: On the 15th she told me at that time I have not seen my daughter in 31 days.

C. ANTHONY: I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know what the timeline is. We know that when she called us and we know the date. That`s her timeline. I mean somewhere between that day and today that child`s still out there.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Where is Caylee Anthony?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYLEE: In my gut she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s close to home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: In addition to learning that mom Casey is set to walk free within 72 hours from now, we also learned that triangulation has placed Casey Anthony at a remote and isolated wooded area. Triangulation was the method used. We also learned that today behind closed doors grandmother Cindy Anthony meets with police.

Also, let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Penny Douglass Furr out of Atlanta and Hugo Rodriguez, former FBI agent, now a defense attorney, joining us out of Florida.

Welcome, attorneys.

Let`s go to the lines, Valerie in New York. Hi, Valerie.

VALERIE, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I am so consumed by this. Hi, friend. And your babies are beautiful. But I am very upset by this and I would do anything to protect my child. Wouldn`t you? And I think that is what the Anthonys are doing. And.GRACE: You know, Valerie, I thought I knew all about what victims go through, having been a crime victim myself until I had the twins. This makes Casey Anthony`s behavior even more incomprehensible to me.

What is your question, dear?

VALERIE: I would do anything to protect my child, and I think these grandparents are being treated terrible.

GRACE: You know, I agree they are being pilloried in the press and I think that they are reacting from a place of love, not only for little Caylee, but they love their daughter and they want to believe what she`s telling them, although many of us see it in direct contradiction to the evidence that we know of right now.

Back to the lawyers, Penny Douglass Furr and Hugo Rodriguez. There is legal speculation that because she is currently charged with child neglect, if a trial goes forward or there is a guilty plea in that, that she would be stopped from being charged with murder under double jeopardy.

Now, Penny Douglass Furr, I see additional elements to prove murder. So this would not be double jeopardy and she could face murder charges if a body were ever found. Do you disagree?

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I do disagree, and as a matter of fact, I understand in Florida this is a procedural matter and not double jeopardy. I`ve made the same argument based on double jeopardy and won, but if it`s the set of circumstances that deal with the disappearance of the child, if the death was also from that, then the state would need to do everything at one time.

If they don`t do everything at one time, Nancy, I believe they would not be able to pursue it later. So her attorneys -- if she did this -- would need to do a speedy trial demand and go forward immediately.

GRACE: Hugo Rodriguez, agree?

HUGO RODRIGUEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER FBI AGENT: I think she can be tried. In Florida, it has to be inextricably intertwined. Right now we have child endangerment and false statements. That can be proven without getting into any of the elements of a possible homicide, and I don`t think that any prudent prosecutor would jeopardize that and they well know that.

GRACE: Now -- so, are you saying, Hugo, that the state can go forward right now with the child neglect claim, then if Caylee is found dead, they can go forward with a murder charge in the future?

RODRIGUEZ: I don`t know exactly what the elements are and what they would be proving. I personally think they made a mistake in charging her right now, but that`s beside the point, because she`s not cooperating and I don`t -- and now she has Sixth Amendment and Fifth Amendment privileges.

But what you`re saying to me, we have false statements. Obviously false statements can be proven without.

GRACE: No. I`m talking strictly about, if they go forward with child neglect charges now, if Jose Baez files a speedy trial demand -- what that means, everybody, is the state`s got to put up or shut up. They`ve got to go to trial between three and six months from the day he files that speedy trial demand. It`s in the constitution. You got a right to a speedy trial.

Are you telling me, Hugo, that you do not believe, if they go forward with child neglect now, that later she could face a murder charge? Yes, no.

RODRIGUEZ: I think she could face a murder charge. I don`t think that the elements of child neglect.

GRACE: Yes, no?

RODRIGUEZ: No, she could face murder charges. She could face murder charges is what I`m telling you.

GRACE: OK. And Penny, you`re saying no, she could not?

DOUGLASS FURR: If the neglect led to the death of the child, it`s based on the same circumstances, then she can`t.

GRACE: No, no, no, no, no, no. But see, that`s where the facts are catching you, Penny Douglass Furr, because the neglect charge specifically points out the neglect is handing her off to a babysitter that is unreliable. Now the child`s gone. That`s the neglect the judge talks about.

A murder charge would require completely different elements. If this child`s body is found -- those are different elements to be proven in a court of law. It`s not just neglect tending her off to a babysitter. It is killing the child.

DOUGLASS FURR: I understand, Nancy, but the neglect led to the murder, Nancy, and they.

GRACE: No, no, no.

DOUGLASS FURR: And there is definitely an argument that they can`t go forward.

GRACE: Because the whole neglect charges would be a lie. There would never have been a babysitter.

DOUGLASS FURR: So then the state would be liable for charging her when there was no evidence, that there was any neglect? Is that what you`re now arguing?

GRACE: The only evidence is her own statement

DOUGLASS FURR: I believe if.

RODRIGUEZ: Nancy.

GRACE: So your client is in a whole heap of trouble now. Hugo?

RODRIGUEZ: Nancy, you`re not going believe this, but I agree with you. They way it`s charged now.

GRACE: Yes, I don`t.

RODRIGUEZ: . I think they can go. I think they could both go forward on a homicide charge whether it be murder or some type of a manslaughter.

GRACE: Well, you know what?

RODRIGUEZ: . but the way the -- case is now filed they could prove all those elements without, I think, impacting on the (INAUDIBLE) and homicide part.

GRACE: I think between the three of us, we just proved to viewers why lawyers argue all of the time.

Back out to the lines, Paula in Florida. Hi, Paula.

PAULA, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I just want to tell you I watch you every night. Love your babies.

GRACE: Thank you.

PAULA: You are my hero. My son and I watch you every night.

GRACE: I don`t deserve that, but thank you. What`s your question, dear?

PAULA: Well, I don`t understand two things. I don`t understand why she`s going to be able to get out on bail. I`ve been following your story every night, but I don`t understand that for number one.

And for number two, do you think that she`ll flee if she gets out of jail and I don`t think -- I don`t understand why the parents seem to be so gullible as to anything she tells them that they believe.

GRACE: She has a right to a bond in a case of child neglect. For a judge to set a bond, she`s got a right to that. The judge set a fairly high bond of $500,000, but bottom line -- to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who is going to bail her out of jail from Sacramento, California, you don`t have to put up $500 thou.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER BAILING OUT CASEY ANTHONY: No.

GRACE: How much do you have to?

PADILLA: No. My nephew -- my nephew will put up a bond in the value of $500 thou. He has a line of credit and a line of guarantee with a surety company out of Houston, Texas. And he`ll post a bond through a local bondsman.

GRACE: How much does he have to put up?

PADILLA: $500,000 in value. In other words, if she was to fail to appear he would then have 90 days in which to bring her back into court or he would lose $500 thou to Orange County.

GRACE: So you don`t have to put just 10 percent?

PADILLA: No, no, he`s got to put up a bond worth 500 grand.

GRACE: Worth 500 grand.

PADILLA: Yes. But Nancy, let me -- add something to the conversation about prosecution. You also have federal civil rights violations that could be invoked by the federal government if she`s tried on the local charges.

GRACE: Civil rights under.

PADILLA: That doesn`t -- double jeopardy does not attach.

GRACE: . under what theory since she is not in a protected class. What civil rights?

PADILLA: Excuse me?

GRACE: A child at this juncture is not deemed a protected class such as a minority or a woman.

PADILLA: Well.

GRACE: . or a handicapped person. So what is the protected class?

PADILLA: I am saying that it could be invoked. I`m not saying that the federal government would get away with it, but I am saying is the federal government might come along and invoke something like that because, you know, you never know.

GRACE: I need a yes-no answer from the lawyers.

Penny Douglass Furr, possible or not possible?

DOUGLASS FURR: Nancy, I think it`s not possible.

GRACE: OK.

DOUGLASS FURR: But I think he`s a lay person and where he`s going is he`s doing something under 1983.

GRACE: Hugo, agree or not?

RODRIGUEZ: I`m going to disagree at this time. I don`t think there is any.

GRACE: OK. Got it.

RODRIGUEZ: . 1983 civil rights violation.

GRACE: Very quickly, I want to go Vince Miller with Chromosomal Labs.

Vince, big question to me. Soil was taken out of the back of the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. Could they determine where that soil came from even if it`s similar to the Anthony`s backyard?

VINCE MILLER, VP & CHIEF TECHNICAL OFFICER, CHROMOSOMAL LABORATORIES: Possibly. There may be some residues, say, for instance, in this case, at the airport area. There may be something that`s associated with the airport that would make it more indicative of -- as opposed to the soil in her backyard. So they may be able to identify it. They may not be able to.

GRACE: With me, Vince Miller, the chief technical officer of Chromosomal Labs in Phoenix, Arizona.

We are taking your calls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY: I just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back. And you know what? That`s all I care about right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: Where is Caylee Anthony?

CINDY: There`s something wrong. I can`t find my granddaughter. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

UNIDENTIFIED JUDGE: You left your 2-year-old child, Caylee Anthony, with a person who does not exist and at an apartment you cannot identify.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER: The gas can situation was someone had broken in to my shed, stolen my two gas cans.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was it your daughter then that you found had taken them?

G. ANTHONY: All I can say is it was in front of her car. That`s all I can tell you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What can you say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead or might be in an accident?

G. ANTHONY: Shut up!

CINDY: Quit publicizing that stuff. She`s out there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing to indicate that she`s not alive. We are hoping that this child is alive and we would love it if this child is alive and well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Straight back out to Vince Miller, VP and technical officer at Chromosomal Laboratories. I want to go back to the soil, soil found in mom Casey`s trunk. You`re telling me that if they got the right soil to compare it to, they can determine where it came from?

MILLER: Possibly and possibly not. It really depends on if there`s any specific trace elements that are unique to that area. They may be able to trace it or at least be able to eliminate some other areas so there are some possibilities.

GRACE: And what factors will determine how well remains are preserved?

MILLER: Well, the biggest enemy for preservation of remains is water, and obviously, where they live there`s a lot of moisture and water, so remains will tend to degrade fairly quickly, and that, obviously, impacts that.

GRACE: I want to go to Brian Reich, deputy chief with Bergen County Sheriff`s Office.

Brian, thank you for being with us. If investigators are able to narrow down from this cell phone triangulation where she was, will it be an easy matter at that juncture for dogs to locate remains?

BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well it`s going to be very difficult as the last guest just said. There`s a lot of water there and the water`s definitely going to inhibit a lot of the detection by the cadaver dogs. So they`re going to have to set up a perimeter. They`re going to have to do a grid search and they`re going to have to go parcel by parcel and narrow it down. But it`s going to be difficult because of all of the water that`s there.

GRACE: Now the cell phone records are indicating she was at a very heavily-wooded area near the Orlando Airport. What`s the cops` next step, Brian?

REICH: Well, they`re going to want to -- they`re going to want to search that area. You know they`ve already narrowed down possibly where she`s been and they can`t really come up with an explanation of why she was in that airport area. So they`re going want to do a search.

They`re going want to set up a perimeter and like we just talked about, try to find some soil that can maybe be compared that was found in her house or found on some of her shoes, some trace evidence, and if they can match that up and she can`t give an explanation of why she was there or during her interview or other statements lied and said, no, I was -- I never was there, and they found soil that puts her there, and they have triangulated cell phone records, historical data from her cell phone that puts her there, then that`s also, I think, some good evidence for a circumstantial case, to the very least.

GRACE: And back to Kathi Belich with WFTV, speaking of soil, remember in the car? Not only were those gray slacks found that smelled like a dead body, but her boots. Now we know the mom, unwittingly -- Cindy Anthony, the grandmother in this case -- washed the gray slacks, what about the boots? Could they have soil remnants on them?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, WFTV: I did ask about that and I was told that those boots were not hiking-type boots. They were maybe dancing, stylish- type boots so I got the impression that they did not -- that they would not bring.

GRACE: Right.

BELICH: . any evidence such as that.

GRACE: Kathi Belich, you`re right.

Kathi, joining us, WFTV.

Back to Brian Reich, deputy chief with Bergen County Sheriff Department.

Brian, you now know the locations just as we do. They`re all in close proximity of the Anthony home, the check cashing place, the Orlando Airport, what do you make of it?

REICH: Well, it looks like we have a -- we have a perimeter set up here. It`s a very large area, it`s a very large perimeter, but I think those cell phone records are going to be key that puts them in that area, and if I had to bet, I`m going to say that we`re going to start seeing a lot more concentration on this area here around the airport, and I think they`re going to be concentrating their efforts there, not only with interviews, with going to the airport, witness accounts, but also with searching and trying to come up with some physical evidence that`s going to be derived from this area in here.

GRACE: Now to Natisha Lance, our producer joining us there at the Anthony home in Orlando, Florida.

Natisha, thank you for being with us tonight. I understand grandmother, Cindy Anthony, at police headquarters today. What happened?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: She was at police headquarters today. And once again they do have that standing appointment on -- Monday, Wednesday, and Friday hoping to keep the lines of communication open. This time we -- they were able to get her on camera whereas her meeting on Wednesday she kind of snuck out the backdoor and nobody saw her.

GRACE: Any idea what they`re meeting about, Natisha?

LANCE: Well, we do know that Cindy Anthony is doing her own investigating. She could possibly be giving them information that she has with her following up on tips as well. She is receiving tips at her home so I`m sure she might be passing them along to police.

GRACE: And, Natisha, 20 seconds before break, what did you learn about -- at Fusion Nightclub about the possibility -- Casey Anthony was on drugs?

LANCE: Actually, I spoke to the owner of Fusion Nightclub and he said there was absolutely no indication that Casey Anthony was on drugs, nor her friends. He actually runs a very tight club there. He doesn`t even let people walk in with cigarettes on their -- on their ear.

GRACE: Everybody, we`ll be right back taking your calls, but now "CNN HEROES."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is "CNN HEROES."

CHANDRASEKHAR SANKURATHRI, MEDICAL MARVEL: 1985, my wife and two children were killed by a terrorist act. I was really lost. I did a lot of soul searching, and finally I come to the conclusion that I can be useful to other people.

I am Chandrasekhar Sankurathri.

In memory of my wife and two children, I am providing eye care to several thousands of people in India. Here, I see the need for the work that I do.

Our medical team goes to a specific village. We screen all the people and if they need any surgery, we bring them back to the hospital.

Our mission is to provide quality eye care with compassion, which is affordable to all.

She cannot believe that she`s seeing again.

It is so nice to see how much we can change their lives. What I do brings me a lot of satisfaction. At the same time, I feel very close to my family. I feel they are here with me, too. That gives me a lot of strength.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved. CNN.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: "CNN HEROES" is sponsored by.

Get involved at CNN.com/heroes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories, and more important, the people who touched our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

G. ANTHONY: Have a small cake inside. It got a number three on it. We`re going to light it. This is a tough day for us. If you guys have children, if you`re grandparents, you`re going to understand. These days like today don`t come around very often, when they do, they mean more to you than anything.

GRACE: According to reports, mom Casey Anthony behind bars had said, had long said her daughter would be home for her 3rd birthday. That day comes and passes this Saturday.

If you`re like me, I thought about that throughout the day on Saturday. Will little Caylee come home?

G. ANTHONY: We`re not giving up. We won`t give up until we find she`s home with her. And if I have to drive this thing around every day until she come home, I`m going to do it. The awareness has got to be out there every single day.

I`m not talking to anybody. Stay out of my property.

CINDY: He`s been angry every day.

G. ANTHONY: If you don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way.

CINDY: And to the fact that Caylee`s not home.

G. ANTHONY: You don`t care about my granddaughter.

CINDY: We are helpless.

G. ANTHONY: You people have no idea what we`ve gone through. You guys don`t give -- you don`t care about me, you don`t care about her. Shut up! Shut up! I`m talking. I am talking. Shut up!

CINDY: We`re falling apart.

G. ANTHONY: You don`t care about what I have to say.

GRACE: There you see the grandparents of little Caylee in an angry outburst at media, this after police sources within, deep within police, say little Caylee is, in fact, dead.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant David Williams, 26, Tarboro, North Carolina, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. Dedicated to family, loved baseball, fast cars, leaves behind mom, Susan, sister, Mary Beth, and nephew, Damien.

David Williams, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room.

Good night, Chris, Rosie.

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../15/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

Casey Anthony's Bondsmen 'On the Record'

Augest 15,2008

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 15, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, we could be just a few short hours from jailed mother Casey Anthony walking right out of jail. The jailed mother has a $500,000 bond on her head right now, but in moments, you will meet the bounty hunter and the bail bondsmen planning to post Casey's big bond. Casey has been behind bars since July 16, the only person of interest in her daughter, Caylee's, disappearance.

Leonard and Tony Padilla are headed to Orlando, Florida, this weekend and plan to have Casey out of jail as early as next week. The question is why. Joining us live is Leonard Padilla, and on the phone, his nephew, Tony Padilla.

Leonard, let me go first to you. You want her out of jail?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I think she'd be a lot easier to deal with and possibly supply information that would be more helpful than having her, you know, in that 7-by-12-foot cell. I got to believe that -- it hasn't worked for 30 days, so let's try something different.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, why do you care? You live in California. She's locked up in Florida. There are a lot of bail bondsmen between California and Florida. Why you?

Watch Greta's interview

LEONARD PADILLA: Well, as I explained -- I'm not a bail agent, I'm a bounty hunter. And I explained to my nephew sometimes, you know, these impossible tasks take a one-sided situation. Nobody, I believe, is looking for her as if she is alive. I believe she's alive . I somewhat believe that, in her own mind, the mother has given up some truths in the statements she's made.

I'm not saying the police department doesn't know what they're doing. I'm just saying, let's look at it from out-of-the-box type thinking that maybe there's a lot of truth, or some truth, in what she has said and there is a lady out there by the name of Zenaida, and she did turn the baby over to her. And God only knows what Zenaida decided to do once she had the baby. I mean, she's a cute little girl, and a 3-year-old would fetch a pretty penny on some markets in this world.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me go to Tony, who is an actual bail bondsman. Leonard, you're the bounty hunter. Tony...

LEONARD PADILLA: I'm the bounty hunter, he's the bail agent.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Tony, what are getting as collateral for this?

TONY PADILLA, BAIL BONDSMAN: Basically, the financial terms of this - - there's nothing financially that we're involved with or anything. We're just basically getting her out, and the most important thing here is the result of getting Caylee back home or finding out exactly what's going on in the case. And that's -- Leonard has a very unique way of doing things like this, and I think Leonard's the right man for the job and I trust -- all my confidence...

VAN SUSTEREN: Tony? Tony, someone's got to -- someone's got to write a check for $50,000, right?

TONY PADILLA: No, that's not...

VAN SUSTEREN: Or $500,000. No one's -- then what's -- how much is it -- what's it going to take to get her out?

TONY PADILLA: It's going to cost -- basically, I'm putting up $500,000 to get her out.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you're pulling the full freight. If she doesn't pay -- typically, she gets to pay you 10 percent of the $500,000, right, the $50,000?

TONY PADILLA: That's correct.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now -- so you have nothing -- you're not asking for $50,000 being put up.

TONY PADILLA: Basically, we're paying for the bond costs and everything like that and flying out there all on our own money.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you spoken -- Tony, I know that you haven't to Casey. Have you spoken to Casey's parents?

TONY PADILLA: I haven't spoken with anybody other than Houston (ph), getting all the paperwork done so that we could get the bond and get it posted.

VAN SUSTEREN: Leonard, have you spoken to the grandparents?

LEONARD PADILLA: No, I've only had contact with one person, and that's Jose Baez, the defendant's attorney.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, do either of you know Larry Garrison, who will be joining us in a minute?

TONY PADILLA: No, I do not.

LEONARD PADILLA: I've crossed paths with him on occasion.

VAN SUSTEREN: What does that mean?

LEONARD PADILLA: I've heard of him and I've seen him, and I know what he does.

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you ever met him?

LEONARD PADILLA: I don't think so. The name rings a bell, but not to the point...

VAN SUSTEREN: Your voice sounded rather sober with that, and I'm wondering if that was...

LEONARD PADILLA: Oh, no, no, no, no, no! I don't know that I know him. I was thinking, because I think I -- I mean, I meet a lot of people, and sometimes, I can remember a name. But I -- I remember the name, but I don't know if I've met him, no.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Leonard, do you think that she has nothing to do with the disappearance of her daughter? And by "she," I mean Casey.

LEONARD PADILLA: Well, I think she has this much, and that is, she entrusted somebody with her child. And then I think she was out there, trying to get her child back and didn't say anything to people. And I believe -- I believe her when she says that she was looking.

VAN SUSTEREN: How do you believe it? Why do you believe that? I mean, like, I tell you, you're the one. I mean, I -- there aren't a lot of people who do think that, I mean, because most people would expect that the mother of a missing child would be talking and cooperating and helping the police. That's not happening, according to the sheriff's office.

LEONARD PADILLA: No. No, I've seen -- I've seen situations where people don't contact the police because they're told, If you contact the police, then we're going to kill your child. And they don't. They just don't. And there's -- here's the thing. Let me tell you something, Greta. I'm a Mexican, and I know that if you're going to come up with a phony name for a nanny, Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez is not too simple. You're going to come up with Rosa or you're going to come up with Patricia or Anjelica. That is too complicated a name. There's got to be some truth in that thing.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So the fact that we know of no ransom note or demand for the child is insignificant to you. The fact that the child disappeared on or about the 16th of June and she's out partying on the 20th in a club and seems to -- everything's normal, that doesn't bother you. The fact that when her mother finally catches up with her on July 15 and says, Where's my granddaughter, and she says she'll be home tomorrow, and that was a lie -- none of that bothers you. You're still willing to believe this version.

LEONARD PADILLA: I still believe that the child's alive. And I think that in her own mind, there was a certain amount of comfort zone for her to still go out and party and all that because originally, I believe she gave up the child to a baby-sitter that she probably didn't know that well so that she could go partying -- she could go with her new boyfriend. That's what I think has happened.

VAN SUSTEREN: Tony, where do you -- where do you -- what do you think in this?

TONY PADILLA: You know, Greta, basically, I'm the bail agent posting the bond. As far as bounty hunting and thoughts like that and being able to insight into that, that's all Leonard's gig. I'm not very good at that, to be honest with you.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know what's sort of interesting, Tony, is that if you post $500,000 and she hits the road, you're on the hook for $500,000. You've never met her. You've never talked to her. You don't know anything about it. I frankly don't think she'll run. I mean, I really don't think you're at risk, but nonetheless...

LEONARD PADILLA: Greta, let me -- Greta?

VAN SUSTEREN: Yes?

LEONARD PADILLA: Let me interrupt you, Greta. The court has ordered electronic monitoring 24/7 for her. She can't leave the residence. It has to be hooked up through the phone. She cannot...

VAN SUSTEREN: I don't think she's -- you know, I don't think she's going to run, either. You and I are on the same page.

LEONARD PADILLA: No. And I have 24/7 people with me that are going back there besides me and Tony that are going to be 24/7 with her. We're not letting her out of our eyesight.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know, as suspicious as I am, that's the one thing is I'm not suspicious she's going to run. You know, it's unusual -- the odd thing is, is that people who do get out of jail, most of them don't run.

LEONARD PADILLA: Here's the thing. If something happened and people started jamming her about her granddaughter -- excuse me, about her daughter -- and she believed, OK, I've done this, I've, you know, burned the body, buried it out here in the swamp -- if she was going to run, she'd have been long gone. She didn't have to wait to go to jail and then get out and then run.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So Tony, you're unwilling to go out on a limb with Leonard on this that you buy this version of the baby-sitter, the kidnapping and the whole works, right?

TONY PADILLA: Honestly, Leonard and I haven't had very much time to talk about the details of that. We've been mostly -- I've been doing the negotiations behind -- about getting the bond and making sure that all the paperwork is posted properly.

VAN SUSTEREN: But wait a second, Tony. I mean -- I mean, like -- you must have some interest in this because you want to make sure she doesn't run. I mean, why do you -- why are you posting a bond for someone who lives all the way across the country? And you don't -- you haven't spoken to her, you haven't spoken to her parents. It's not secure. I mean, like, you -- I mean, I could at least understand if you were committed to the fact that she was being wrongfully suspected or something.

TONY PADILLA: Well, whether she's being wrongly suspected or anything like that, that's really none of my business. The most important thing for me is the daughter, the girl. I have two daughters myself, and this thing's been dragging on for two months. Leonard's been making mention of it. And he seems to have a pretty good insight into this. And basically, I'm going off the confidence of my uncle. I've seen him do some miracles before, and I'm hoping he can work another one.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you guys arrive on Sunday. When do you expect, Leonard, she'll be walking out the door? What's your best estimate?

LEONARD PADILLA: I'm thinking that the attorney will meet with us Monday morning and he will inform the court that there's a bond to be placed. The court will then issue written instructions as to what they want, and then the bond will be put down. And it could be Monday afternoon or Tuesday.

VAN SUSTEREN: Tony, got all the paperwork done, ready to go?

TONY PADILLA: All the paperwork's done and ready to go. We're just waiting to see what the demands are going to be as far as the ankle monitor and surveillance and things like that.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, I actually think, Tony, your money is safe. I don't think she's going anyplace. But there are other things I disagree at least with Leonard about. I'm a little more suspicious than Leonard. But anyway, Leonard, Tony, good luck. And I'm sure we'll catch up -- can we see you Monday night? Will you come back here Monday night?

TONY PADILLA: Sure thing.

LEONARD PADILLA: We'll be there Sunday afternoon.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Good. Well -- but you're going to come back on the show Monday night, right? Right, Leonard?

LEONARD PADILLA: Well, I -- that's -- I think so, yes, Greta. I believe so.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Good. All right. I've booked you before millions of people, so there's your word. Anyway, thank you both, gentlemen.

TONY PADILLA: Thanks, Greta.

LEONARD PADILLA: Very good.

VAN SUSTEREN: Yesterday, Caylee's grandparents, Cindy and George Anthony, visited their daughter, Casey, in jail. Casey's parents left the jail understandably upset. They were visibly upset. Cindy was in tears. A tape of that jailhouse visit has not yet been released to the public.

And joining us live in Orlando is Holly Bristow, a reporter for WOFL. Holly spoke to Cindy and George Anthony after they visited Casey in jail. Holly, what did they say to you?

HOLLY BRISTOW, WOFL: Well, they said that they had a good visit. Obviously, it's not an easy for them to go in and see their daughter behind bars. They said it was a very emotional visit and very sad, but at the same time, a good visit, sad in that, again, that she's behind bars, but good in the fact that they actually got to lay eyes on her for the first time in several days.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now the controversy over the pinging off the cell towers. Have you been able to confirm that investigators are looking at pinging off cell towers in a particular area?

BRISTOW: You know, we've been hearing lots about this pinging off the cell phones, and I haven't gotten the same answer out of more than one person at the sheriff's office. So at this point, I really can't give you an accurate answer on that.

VAN SUSTEREN: What do you -- what are you hearing on the ground? And I understand hearing -- I realize it's a lot different than proof, but what's the word on the ground?

BRISTOW: You know, some people are saying that they're in an area over by the airport in the woods. The next thing you know, we're hearing that that's not happening. It's just kind of a back-and-forth, back-and- forth. They've really gotten to the point that there have been so many rumors surrounding this case that they've really kept a tight lid on things today and really haven't told us where in terms of the investigation and where they're searching.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Has it been a blockbuster announcement that two men are headed to Florida, one has got a bond ready to go, ready to spring her?

BRISTOW: It was definitely a pretty big surprise. In fact, I talked to Cindy Anthony shortly after I had heard about that. She hadn't heard anything of it. I'd been text-messaging back and forth with Casey's brother, Lee. That's the way he usually communicates. And he said that he had heard nothing of it. And I said, For real? Are you being serious? Are you being truthful, or are you kidding? And he said, This is honestly the first time I've heard of this.

So obviously, the parents are just learning about this for the first time. And last time I had actually spoken with them about the possibility of her coming home, before anybody had even come up with this bail money, you know, they said that it's going to take a lot. They don't know if they're going to feel comfortable bringing her home to this house. Obviously, they're pretty much living in a fishbowl, at this point. We're here, you know, pretty much 16 hours a day, between all the networks and the local stations out here. So you know, they're going to have to find a place to keep her that they can keep her away from the media, and you know, keep her in a location that it's not going to jeopardize the investigation.

VAN SUSTEREN: Indeed. Holly, thank you.

Coming up: Well, you just did hear the bombshell news. Casey Anthony could be a free woman in just a matter of two days. Her parents react to this bombshell news coming up.

And later: There is other big news tonight. We are following another developing situation in Florida. It's the pings. Could the pings from Casey's cell phone lead investigators to a crime scene before she's ever had a chance to even walk out of jail? We're going to tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Could jailed mother Casey Anthony be just two days away from walking right out of jail? A bounty hunter and a bail bondsman are headed to Florida this weekend to post the jailed mother's $500,000 bond. Casey, as you know, is in jail, accused of child neglect and lying to investigators after failing to report her daughter, Caylee, missing.

It was the child's grandmother who ultimately reported little Caylee missing, and that report came more than a month after the toddler supposedly vanished.

Joining us live is Larry Garrison, spokesperson for the Anthony family. And that's a new title for you tonight, isn't it, spokesperson for the Anthony family.

LARRY GARRISON, ANTHONY FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Yes, it is.

VAN SUSTEREN: What will you be doing? ...

GARRISON: How are you?

VAN SUSTEREN: I'm very well, Larry. What will you be doing?

GARRISON: Well, basically, there's been a spin going on out there, and I'm going to try and give the family their lives back.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. The spin being what?

Watch Greta's interview

GARRISON: There have been so many people that have reported erroneous things, and it seems like this is being tried in the press when, in essence, it's deterring people from coming forward. There have been three people just recently who have stepped forward with sightings of this little girl, and it's a shame that there's a spin out there right now and that the press is trying this case on TV.

VAN SUSTEREN: Larry, nothing -- there's nothing I would like more than to have my suspicions be totally wrong in this case. I would love to have that because there's nothing I like -- there's nothing -- I mean, having a child harmed, having a mother in jeopardy, all of it. However, is it spin when you look at the facts? Facts are different than spin. We know that on the 16th, the grandfather says he saw the child. She then leaves for approximately one month, and the child is missing. And she lies to the mother on the 15th of July, saying the child is coming home the next day. Is that spin? Is the fact that she acts perfectly normal and goes to a club and acts like all is well and lies to the roommate that she's living with in June as to where Caylee is -- is that spin, or are those facts?

GARRISON: Well, let me ask you a question.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

GARRISON: If you lie about something, does that make you a murderer? Does that afford the ability of the press to leap to certain assumptions that are not true?

VAN SUSTEREN: I totally agree with you. It does not. You know what? Being a liar doesn't mean you're a murderer. I totally agree with you on that. However, the thing that's so distressing to so many people is that this woman in jail won't cooperate with the police. She says the child's been kidnapped, but she wants to keep it a secret. She worries about herself and not the child. That's what's got everybody up in arms.

GARRISON: And who gave you that information? How do you know she's not cooperating right now? How do you know...

VAN SUSTEREN: The sheriff's department.

GARRISON: ... That Cindy Anthony and -- how do you know that Cindy and George Anthony aren't cooperating right now...

VAN SUSTEREN: They are.

GARRISON: ... With the police?

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, Cindy -- I've spoken...

GARRISON: Well, they...

VAN SUSTEREN: Cindy -- I've spoken to Cindy and George. Cindy's the one who reported the child missing. Cindy's the one who called the police, even called the police later to come in and come get clothes. I'm not saying Cindy and George. I'm telling you that the sheriff's department told four or five days ago told me that Casey, the mother, is not cooperating. That's my source.

GARRISON: Well, you know, that may be your source, but I'm privy to a lot of information here which affords me the ability to feel that this little girl is still alive. I'm wearing this bracelet right now, and I believe that there's a modicum of chance here that this spin is going out of control. I worked on the Aruba case, when people thought that Joran Van Der Sloot -- he came here. He went on national TV. He smoothed everybody over. In my opinion...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Let me ask you a quick question. We got to go. Let me ask you a quick question. Give me something, give me some fact to operate on so that I can get rid of this horrible suspicion I labor under. Tell me one fact.

GARRISON: I'll tell you a few facts. One, this ping -- they live not too far from an airport and the woods, so the rumor you're hearing about the phone, it's erroneous.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. And...

GARRISON: And if your little girl...

VAN SUSTEREN: Give me another one quick.

GARRISON: I'm going to. The clothes in the trunk and DNA -- if your child had a dress on and there was a hair on the dress, then there's DNA in the trunk. Let's not lead to something that's not fair. Most important...

VAN SUSTEREN: We're going to...

GARRISON: ... Is there are three people -- Greta, there are three people that have come forward with sightings of this child.

VAN SUSTEREN: And I've got to go.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Larry. I'll see you -- come back Monday night, Larry. We'll finish this, OK?

GARRISON: All right, Greta. Thank you.

VAN SUSTEREN: Nice to see you, Larry.

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Bounty Hunter Arrives to Bail Out Missing Toddler`s Jailed Mother

Aired August 18, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for nine long weeks, last seen with her mother. Bombshell developments tonight. Casey Anthony set to walk out of jail within the next 48 hours. A California bounty hunter arrives in Orlando to post $50,000 to bond out Caylee`s mom. He says 3-year-old Caylee is still alive and believes he can get mom, Casey, to talk. Tonight, he`s also with us live.
Also, mom, Casey, shuts down two more jailhouse visits with her family, first with her brother, Lee, then her own dad. Why is that? All the while, the family, the Anthony family say they have received three new credible sightings of little Caylee.

Also tonight, an independent search team scours a heavily wooded area, finding clothing and other items. Now, that`s close to where mom, Casey, abandoned her car. That evidence now in the hands of police. But are these items connected to Caylee`s disappearance? Tonight, where is Caylee Anthony?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla plans to free Casey Anthony from jail. He`s convinced he can get the 22-year-old to tell him where she left little Caylee.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: And I don`t think anybody is going to get anywhere with her while she is in custody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators say Casey continues to tell them lies. Padilla thinks she needs a friend.

PADILLA: If you`ve been in jail for 30 days and somebody comes and gets you out, you`re going to say, That`s my friend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he succeeds in freeing Casey, she`ll be required to wear a ankle monitoring device. Padilla`s team will also monitor her 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, to make sure they`re not stuck paying the half a million dollar bail. Padilla met the Anthonys for the first time at their weekly prayer vigil. He says Caylee is still alive and says his team will find her in one week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Thanks so much for being with us. Where is that beautiful little girl that police are searching for, that little girl named Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone`s stepping in to try and bail out the mom of the missing 3-year-old, Caylee Anthony. And it`s reality TV bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. He and his nephew have flown to Florida. They`re going to put up Casey Anthony`s bond, fully $500,000, that is, to get her out of jail. She`s charged, again, with child neglect, lying to authorities, lying, stonewalling police. And her 3-year-old still missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have her in jail for a reason, because she lied over and over and over to authorities. She was out partying approximately five days after her daughter was missing. She didn`t report it, only her mom a month later. Now, this guy is coming in from California with a reality show -- so you know, we all know what his agenda is -- trying to get her out. He`s basically interfering with an investigation.

PADILLA: Do you all agree with this, that she`s the last person that had that baby in hand? OK. Do any of you have any doubt in your mind that if she killed the baby and buried it, that law enforcement will find the baby eventually? Is there a doubt in your mind about that? If that happened, she goes back to jail. I don`t believe that happened. I believe the baby is alive. I believe she passed it off to one of her friends. (INAUDIBLE) baby, I`ll be back in a couple of days. That person, for whatever reason, is down the road with the baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This woman home free? Will we ever know what happened to her little girl?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: Hello again. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. It`s the big mystery. Let`s go right to Mark Williams, news director, WNDB Newstalk 1150. Give us the latest.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Pat, the latest is Casey Anthony still remains in the Orange County jail, in her 7-by-12 isolation cell. Of course, over the weekend, Leonard Padilla and his -- who`s a bounty hunter, and his nephew, a bail bondsman by the name of Tony Padilla, flew into Orlando from Sacramento. They want to spring Casey Anthony from jail. They say they have the wherewithal to do it.

As of late this afternoon, Allen Moore (ph), who`s a spokesman for the Orange County jail, says they have not heard from any third party trying to get Casey Anthony out of jail. That is the very latest. Also, Leonard Padilla...

LALAMA: OK. All right. Go ahead, very quickly.

WILLIAMS: OK. Leonard Padilla says if, in fact, he springs Casey Anthony out of jail, he will have an associate with her 24/7. She`s not going anyplace. He says that associate can pry some information out of her. And also, that Padilla plans to do his own investigation this week, hoping to come up with Caylee because he says she`s alive.

LALAMA: It`s no doubt an uncommon execution of release. I want to go to Nikki Pierce, reporter WDBO radio. It doesn`t look like, if this happens, it`s going to be really in the next few hours. I mean, she`s in that jail tonight for sure.

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: She`s in for tonight, that`s correct, Pat. They have to do a couple of different things before they release her. The clerk of courts has to be notified. There are three different holds that have to be cleared before she`s released. And one of them, which is all built around the electronic monitoring device that Mark Williams mentioned, is going to take a while.

LALAMA: OK. Well, guess what? Sitting right next to me is the aforementioned Leonard Padilla. I got to know you a little bit today. You`re quite the colorful character. I like to say he`s made more splash around here than Sea World. And you have -- Mr. Padilla, you actually said to me today -- I said, Where`s the bondsman, who is your...

PADILLA: I said a lot of things to you. Why are you picking on this?

LALAMA: Now, hold on. Now, hold on. You said tonight -- I said, Where is the bondsman? Why is he not here? And you said, Because I am the media whore. You said those words.

PADILLA: Yes, I did.

LALAMA: I`m going to come right out of the gate.

PADILLA: Absolutely.

LALAMA: There are a lot of people who think you have only self- interest here.

PADILLA: Well, the thing about it is, I can`t stop people from thinking those thoughts. My thinking is, the little girl is alive. She can be found. It`s a different theory we`re working on. And furthermore, there`s a $250,000 reward out there. What I`m saying is, Look, you`ve got the baby. For whatever reason, you didn`t return her. You`re panicky about law enforcement arresting you for kidnapping. Bring her in. You can have that reward. I`m only interested in Caylee being brought back home. That`s all.

LALAMA: Mr. Padilla, why could not a completely credible sufficient bondsman in the city of Orlando come forward? And why -- I`m from California, so you know, thanks for being here with me. But why did it take you and your nephew 3,000 miles and $50,000 of your own money to come here and execute the release of this woman?

PADILLA: How do you pronounce cojones?

(LAUGHTER)

LALAMA: I`m asking.

PADILLA: Or lack of.

LALAMA: You`re saying -- you`re insulting all the bondsmen and women of Orlando, Florida. Why do we need...

PADILLA: You want me to do it one at a time?

LALAMA: Just give me a statement. Why do we need...

PADILLA: They don`t have the wherewithal. The company that we deal with in Texas is allowed to post $500,000 bonds just about in any state in the country. Most of the bondsmen in this town write to companies that do not allow them to post a bond of this nature, of this amount, without $500,000 in security. If the people had $500,000 in security, they`d go to a bank and borrow the money and not have to pay the 10 percent to anybody.

LALAMA: You know what? Just because you are sitting here, we have more calls than normal, I`m sure. And let`s take one. Wendy in California. Hello, Wendy. What have you got for me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Pat. Something is really bugging me. I haven`t heard anyone discuss the fact that very early in the case, it was reported that there was a tip the baby Caylee was sighted at the Orlando airport. So I`m wondering where exactly that tip came from, where`s the origin? Did it come from within the Anthony family, because they knew eventually cell phone records would show momma Casey was near the vicinity of the airport?

LALAMA: Well, let`s ask news director Mark Williams. Do you know about that tip, Mark?

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, we`ve talked about that tip over the past couple of weeks, Pat. The deal is, there`s been...

LALAMA: Give me a quick answer on where do we stand with that tip.

WILLIAMS: Well, it`s not credible. There`s been no security tape brought forward. There was also -- and every time we walk into the Orlando airport, as you know, you`re videotaped with security cameras. Secondly, there was an unconfirmed sighting in the Georgia mountains, at a restaurant in White (ph) County, Georgia. That did not turn out to be credible, either. So there`s no videotape. There`s no nothing. They`re just not -- they`re unconfirmed.

LALAMA: Let me get back to the issue at hand, which is the presence of Mr. Padilla. I`m very curious. Joe Episcopo is a defense attorney here in Florida. What do you think about this guy coming into your turf? You got a problem with him being here doing this?

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that -- I don`t have any problem with any bondsman coming in here and bonding someone out. It`s a question of who`s putting the $50,000 up, and is it really being put up or is it being given back? I suppose there may be some issue there. But no, I don`t have any problem with any bondsman coming from anywhere to help bond somebody out, especially if it was my client.

LALAMA: Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, weigh in there.

HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: I got to tell you, I don`t think this woman should be out on bond. This fellow is only looking for publicity for himself, Pat, let`s be honest. He wants his face on TV. He`s got a new show coming up. He wants to promote it. This is great free advertising. He doesn`t have any...

(CROSSTALK)

LALAMA: He admits that.

HUGHES: He doesn`t have any independent evidence that this child is alive, and he`s going to come in and post bond so his face can get out there. And Casey`s not going to cooperate with him because, let`s face it, she hasn`t told the truth so far. She`s not going to start now.

LALAMA: All right. You know, you bring up a very good point because here`s what I find interesting, Mr. Padilla. You`re essentially working with the defense. Now, your job as a bounty hunter is that you bring people in. You drag them in. I mean...

PADILLA: What, I quit being a citizen because I`m a bounty hunter, when I see something that cries out for help?

LALAMA: Why about -- what is it about this case that makes you...

PADILLA: No one wants to admit that she`s alive. Everybody wants...

LALAMA: Why are you...

(CROSSTALK)

LALAMA: Now, let me make this point. Here`s a woman who`s done nothing but, let`s just say it, lie, who becomes righteously indignant when anybody challenges her. What makes you think she`s going to go to you and go, Oh, Mr. Padilla, thank God you`re here, let me come forward with the truth?

PADILLA: Why shouldn`t she?

LALAMA: Well, why should she?

PADILLA: Because it`s happened thousands of times. I`ve chased skips for 33 years. They all lie. Their parents lie. Everybody lies, and eventually, we get somebody that gives us a grain of truth out of a thousand of lies and we follow that up and I -- you know?

LALAMA: All right, let`s go to Bill Majeski. He`s a former New York Police Department detective. I`m curious, your point of view from a police officer`s frame of mind. What do you think? I mean, do you think this guy is going to get magic out of her?

BILL MAJESKI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, going back to my law enforcement days, very infrequently would someone like Mr. Padilla come into a situation and help the situation. Clearly, he`s motivated by his own -- well, he has his own motivation for being here. But the reality is, I think there`s a greater probability of interference with the investigation by the law enforcement agency than there is anything else.

In terms of getting or extracting information from her -- listen, any time you want to get a lot of publicity, you want to get notoriety, you come out with an opinion that`s in direct contrast with the vast majority of opinions. I would like to hear just one bit of evidence or even one clue that leads him to believe that this little girl is still alive, and secondly, how he can go about then extracting this information from the mother to help him, you know, find where this child is.

PADILLA: That`s not -- law enforcement hasn`t charged her with a murder, attempted murder or any kind of a homicide. What more do you need?

LALAMA: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," is there a psychological component? I mean, Mr. Padilla obviously believes he`s got something up his sleeve, he`s got some trick, some ability to make this woman, who has basically been a punk in many ways in her attitude towards people -- I don`t know whether she hurt anybody or buried anybody or did anything. And let`s keep in mind, she is a person of interest in terms of anything more foul than a disappearance. So let`s keep that in mind.

We don`t know what she did. But she acts pretty darn-self righteous. What is it about Mr. Padilla that thinks he`s going to get something out of her nobody else has gotten?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I do hope he ends up being the criminal whisperer. But if she`s not bonded enough to her own child to tell the truth, how is she going to bond to a guy in a 10-gallon hat? I mean, let`s keep in mind why pathological liars lie. They lie even when there`s no long-term incentive. That is essentially a feature of the disorder. So whoever is going to get her to tell the truth is going to have to incentivize her.

I tell you what would incentivize her is maybe the promise of being with a boyfriend, the promise of an ideal life, somebody who can get her to talk and talk and talk, and as Padilla did point out, pull out, you know, a grin of truth in the midst of all the lies. But without any external incentive, she`s really not going to tell the truth.

LALAMA: Ronald Singer, forensic scientist. I know whether the bounty hunter can get her to talk is not up your alley, but I`d like your opinion anyway.

RONALD SINGER, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, I think that any time that you have differing people going at cross purposes to one another, even though the outcome or the end result -- the end goal may be the same -- I think that it opens the door for interference and it opens the door for losing evidence or losing investigative leads that might otherwise be brought out by a coordinated single effort by one agency.

And I`m less concerned with Mr. Padilla than I am with some of these other amateur groups that are going out searching for evidence.

LALAMA: Interesting. And we will get to that. That`s very important that you bring that up. But let me just finish up with this line of questioning.

Nikki Pierce, reporter for WDBO radio -- you know, Mr. Padilla, you indicated to me today that the family was sort of all behind this and willing to have 24/7 bodyguards and people at their house, but a spokesman for the family is saying nothing has really been etched in stone in that regard. Is that true?

PIERCE: Well, that`s entirely possible.

PADILLA: Yes, indeed...

LALAMA: Hold on. Hold on.

PIERCE: I have heard grumblings that the Anthony family has agreed to have one person from Padilla`s team inside the home 24/7.

LALAMA: OK.

PIERCE: They had previously indicated that they may want to put her in a safe house. But it does sound like they`d like to have her at home and have at least one member of the team inside, although I guess anything could change at this point because so many things are up in the air.

LALAMA: I just have a few seconds, Mr. Padilla, before we go to a break. But is she better off at home? Wouldn`t it be better, if everyone`s so concerned about her protection, that she go some place that we don`t know where to find her, where to bug her or anyone who claims they want to hurt her could hurt her?

PADILLA: It`s a toss-up. The media would find her, no matter where we have her. It wouldn`t matter. They would find where she was. Also, I think the court feels much more comfortable if she`s at home with the parents. I`m not saying that from a knowledgeable source. But I do know that the parents do want her home.

LALAMA: Joe, just very quickly. I`ve got 15 seconds. Yes or no. You, as a defense attorney, would you mind the bounty hunter being in the same geographical area with your client?

EPISCOPO: No, not at all. They`re trying to help. They`re here to help us, and I`d take all the help I could get.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PADILLA: (INAUDIBLE) I want to see the baby come home. And there`s - - you know, I`ve been asked the question, Well, there`s a $250,000 reward, is that what you`re doing it for? I`ve -- look, I`ve said this and I`m going to repeat it. Whoever`s got that baby, bring it in. I`m not a cop. I don`t have to give up any information to anybody as to who gave me the baby. And you can have the $250,000 reward. I don`t want a penny of it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Do you personally believe that you have had visions of where Caylee is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody has a vision and everybody has feelings about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody has a right to their own opinion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very easy to watch this play out day by day and form your own opinions (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`d use any tool I could to find my missing children or grandchildren.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) it`s only as good as the people that have information in front of them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. We`ve got lots of calls on this one, and we`re going to go right to Veronica from my home state of Ohio. Hey, Veronica.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Pat. Hey, my question is for Mark Williams. I wanted to know about the carseat, Caylee`s carseat. Has it ever been found? Was it in the abandoned vehicle? And did they ever check consignment shops in case she sold those, since she needed money?

LALAMA: All right. Well, let`s go to Mark. Mark, did you hear that question about the baby`s carseat?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Pat, as far as I know, there was no baby`s carseat that we know of, and it hasn`t turned up in any of the consignment shops in the area that police have reported. So we don`t know what happened to the carseat, even though Caylee`s picture was taken at one time in a carseat. That remains a mystery to us tonight.

LALAMA: OK. You know, all through the break, Joe Episcopo bugged me to death because he wants to argue about how high the bond is. So I`m going to give you a chance right now to go ahead and weigh in on that, Joe.

EPISCOPO: Well, normally, a bond on charges of this nature, a five- year offense and a one-year offense, probably carry about $3,500 total. So $500,000 is a bit excessive. Now, I know that this was originally set when she was a murder suspect, and I can see a high bond then. But since then, the charges have been filed, and I think the bond really needed to be set in relation to those charges.

The bonding process is not a punishment process. You don`t put somebody in jail on bond and hold them there because, We think they did it. That`s not what it`s all about. A bond is to ensure appearance in court and safety for the community.

LALAMA: OK. All right. So now, remember, she`s not a murder suspect at this point. Holly Hughes, former prosecutor, what`s your retort to Joe?

HUGHES: Well, Joe, what`s happening is she created the situation herself. She has lied over and over and over. You know, it`s the old joke, How do you know she`s lying? Because she`s opening her mouth. If she`s talking, she`s telling a lie to the cops. And that is why they are trying to keep her locked up right now. That`s why the bond is excessively high.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PADILLA: We have somebody watching the child. That person, for whatever reason, went, took the child with her. She`s afraid to tell the truth until her mother jacks her up and says, I want to know where my granddaughter is, I want to know what`s going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: Every focus that`s on Casey takes effort away from Caylee.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: I have no clue where my daughter is? Yes, that is the truth.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there a moment that you`ve ever thought for a second that maybe Casey had a hand in Caylee`s disappearance?

CINDY ANTHONY: Why go through all of this? Why put us through all of that? Doesn`t make sense. She wouldn`t do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Let`s just clarify a couple of very important things. You know, Casey is, of course, a defendant in, you know, child neglect. But she is a person of interest in the disappearance of her daughter because of the lies, because of what police believe is decomposition, the smell of decomposition. OK, let`s get that straight.

Now, I want to go to Nikki Pierce, reporter, WDBO radio. This process of release is not immediate. It takes a while. Just tell us very quickly what happens next.

PIERCE: Well, very quickly, they would have to go to the clerk of courts, which would have to notify the jail. First of all, the jail would have to notify the Orange County sheriff`s office, which is the charging institution. They also would -- there`s a second hold that is secret, as far as we know. They won`t release what that is. And the third one is that they have to make sure that there`s a phone line, an appropriate phone line, to keep the electronic surveillance going in the home. It can`t have any voice-mail or call waiting or anything that would interrupt the data stream. Once that`s proven, then she can be released.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A bounty hunter says he`ll post bond for the mother of the toddler missing in central Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s convinced he can get the 22-year-old to tell him where she left little Caylee. Investigators say Casey continues to tell them lies.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: What we don`t have is information on exactly where Caylee was last. The one person that has that information, Casey Anthony, is not providing information that`s accurate to us.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He thinks Caylee is still alive and says his team will find her in one week.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE ANTHONY: I just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I just got to feel that there`s some humanity in that woman that would not allow her to kill that cute little girl.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace. Thanks so much for being with us.

Back to Mr. Padilla very quickly. You told me earlier today you admitted you feel that Casey is withholding information, that there are things she`s not telling us.

PADILLA: Absolutely. She told the police that this Zenaida Fernandez -- Hernandez-Gonzalez was the babysitter and then she led them on some kind of a wild goose chase because she said, well, I told some other people trying to reinforce her story down at Universal or somewhere. So she ran them around in a -- you know, in a circle, getting absolutely nowhere.

I agree with you. She`s been lying to them. There`s no.

LALAMA: Would you take on a case knowing that a person could be lying right to your face?

PADILLA: I do that all the time. Fugitives that run -- and over 4,000 some, maybe 5,000, that I`ve brought back to justice from all around the world lied. Their mom lied. Their brother lied, their sister, their wife, they all lied. We have to get one little grain of truth to follow up as a lead.

LALAMA: Mr. Episcopo, as a defense attorney, you don`t have any issue with someone sort of stepping in and taking a little bit of an investigative approach here, which is what Mr. Padilla is doing.

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Of course not. Why would you object to someone.

LALAMA: Because he`s the bounty hunter.

EPISCOPO: So what? That`s just a title. He goes and finds people.

LALAMA: Why are you yelling?

EPISCOPO: You know? He goes and finds people. What`s the big deal about that?

LALAMA: Holly Hughes, what do you think?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Well, Pat, I agree with Mr. Majeski, our NYPD expert, who`s saying every time you get another person involved, especially a lay person -- and from perspective of law enforcement, this guy hasn`t been trained, he hasn`t been to the police academy, he hasn`t been to law enforcement or FBI academy.

I think the more people you get into it the more you`re going to confuse the issue. There`s the likelihood that information is going to get messed up. It`s not going to be relayed to the proper authorities. I mean the Anthonys are out there conducting their own investigation. Casey has - - her own investigation. We now have a psychic team doing their own investigation.

Nobody`s turned up anything. So I don`t think that this particular man coming in right now is going to work any magic.

LALAMA: Bethany Marshall, people say, gee whiz, if she`s not sitting in that horrible cell, she`s more likely to cooperate. What do you think?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": You know, I -- something that I thought was interesting is that apparently she turned down one of the jailhouse visits because her attorney had advised her. And it surprised me that she followed her attorney`s advice, given that she lies so extensively.

So I think that if anyone is going to get through to her, it might be the attorney. I mean I think it`s very omnipotent and grandiose for the bounty hunter to think that he can do it. And why do bounty hunters bring back the bad guy? Not so they can have a truthful meeting, a come-to-Jesus meeting, or a meeting of the minds. They do it because they have some external reward. He has a TV show coming up. That`s why he wants her out of jail.

LALAMA: Bill Majeski, does it compromise the case having the bounty hunter so closely involved with this person?

BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE BOARD MEMBER, SAFE NOW PROJECT: I would say absolutely yes because you have a man that`s doing an investigation that could very well interfere with the police investigation. Any time you have that additional person in between, you`re losing something.

You know, as an investigator over the years in law enforcement and in the private sector, one of my expertise is body language. Going in and talking to someone, 75 percent of what is not being said, 75 percent from the body language alone is what communicates messages to you. What you`re doing is you`re allowing a bounty hunter in there to talk to them and then perhaps give information to the police based on their interpretation of what`s being said.

Now another issue is that clearly if this woman is allowed to go back home, there`s always a real possibility that she will become looser in terms of her dialogue if perhaps she consumes some alcohol or things like that. That is perhaps one of the issues that our bounty hunter may be thinking about, that if he gets her in a very relaxed environment, she may be more inclined to slip up in terms of what information she does have.

But clearly she is the key to this entire investigation. She is the one that has information. And she knows exactly what happened.

LALAMA: All right. I have to shift gears just for a couple of minutes and we`ll get back to this matter.

But Wyatt Locke is a person who participated in a weekend search for Caylee.

Wyatt, thank you so much for being with us. Now, you did turn over material to police. This is important because they did accept it and this is sort of along the lines of Mr. Singer talking about interference with investigations.

We -- everyone appreciates what you do. It`s incredibly altruistic. Tell us first what you found, where it went, and then we`ll discuss the merits of that.

WYATT LOCKE, AT SEARCH LOCATION, PARTICIPATED IN WEEKEND SEARCH FOR CAYLEE: I`m sorry. Can you -- I didn`t catch the last part of the question.

LALAMA: All right. Well, just tell us what you found and where it went.

LOCKE: Well, we did find two knapsacks out in the wooded area, in the Econ Soccer Complex linked to Jay Blanchard Park. One with a pink flowery knapsack and the another one was a solid red knapsack along with some female clothing that matched the size that was described on the Orange County Sheriff`s Department warrant of stuff removed from the Anthony home along with a couple of articles of children`s clothing.

LALAMA: All right. This is significant. You did call police. They did accept it?

LOCKE: That is correct. As soon as it was found and we determined it might be something relevant, the entire group was called out of the area and law enforcement was notified immediately, in which when they arrived, they went and collected the knapsack and then went back and also collected two large brown bags of other stuff and loaded it into their vehicle, took our information, and then they left and let us know if they need anything else, they would be back in contact with us.

LALAMA: You know I have to ask people like you who take time out of your own lives to do something like this for a little girl you didn`t know. What gives you that incentive? And bless you for doing it. But what gives you that incentive?

LOCKE: Well, a bunch of us in the group, we -- you know, some of us have family connections. They have grandchildren, they have children and that`s their incentive.

My incentive is really just because, you know, it`s a little child, it`s a defenseless little child and, you know, I live in Orlando. I see the story on the news every night. And it`s something that I`ve become very, you know, entangled with. You know I`ve been watching the story. I see the pain that the family is going through.
   
I see the pain that the community is going through and the nation as a whole and they want to see this little girl found. And at this point we figured, you know, why not go out there and look for this little girl and see if we can maybe help?

LALAMA: Well, it is an incredible thing.

And Ronald Singer, as a forensic scientist, I know you also probably believe it`s an incredible thing when people try to get involved. But your concern is that things can be compromised.

RONALD L. SINGER, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Absolutely, I agree. As laudable as their desire to assist in this matter is -- and I think it is very laudable and they deserve credit for that -- I think that going out on your own, no matter how cautious you try to be, without the scientific knowledge or the training that a crime scene investigator or others would have in these instances, only opens the door for contamination, possible contamination at least, and the destruction of evidence that they don`t even know exists.

The stuff that they were able to see, from what I heard just now, they handled in the most appropriate way. They backed off and called the police.

LALAMA: Right.

SINGER: Let them come in to collect it. But what they didn`t see was what they may have walked on when they got there. And without the training and the expertise that is required to do that kind of job, I`m very, very concerned that groups like this that go in operate at cross purposes to what law enforcement is trying to do.

LALAMA: Very quickly, just a few seconds, Mark Williams, news director, WNDB, what about this forensic evidence that we`re waiting so patiently or not so patiently for with bated breath? When do we expect it, hear about it, and will we hear about it r at all?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, here`s the deal. We were supposed to hear about this nearly two weeks ago. A week has gone by. Nothing`s allegedly come in. We`ve waited another week. Nothing has come in. And there`s always been debate within the sheriff`s office whether any of the information from the DNA tests will ever be released. That`s soon to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PADILLA: I find it hard to believe that the mother of a 3-year-old child would harm her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Come on. You`re a bounty hunter. You have never heard of a mother harming their children?

PADILLA: Yes, yes, but I still want to believe that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CASEY: I know Mom will understand this better than anyone that there is that type of bond that you have with your kid.

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY: Right.

CASEY: And it`s -- you know, it`s unexplainable.

CINDY: You know that gut feeling that maybe call for help.

We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.

It`s the same gut feeling that I know she`s out there. And that`s why I keep calling for help from the public.

CASEY: In my gut, she`s still OK and it still feels like she`s close to home.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: This is the child we`re trying to find. And we`re, again, hopeful and prayerful that we`re going to find Caylee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LALAMA: Good evening. Again, I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.

Mr. Padilla, very quickly, I want to ask you, how do you notify -- do you made your official notification to.

PADILLA: That`s not my job. That`s Tony Padilla, my nephew`s job.

LALAMA: All right. What`s the next step? What happens next?

PADILLA: They -- tomorrow we`ll have to find out if -- and from what I understand, the monitoring system the court requires is in place. They have to get the monitoring people then to talk to her. There has to be some kind of a shrink evaluation and then there`s a couple other -- there`s one hold that`s a secret hold that they haven`t disclosed. I don`t know what it is.

LALAMA: When you talk about a psychological evaluation that will be ongoing or that`s something has to be done before her release?

PADILLA: I`m not sure. I`m not sure.

LALAMA: Joe, do you know the answer to that? Joe Episcopo, about it.

EPISCOPO: No.

LALAMA: . a psych -- why would they need a psychological evaluation before her release?

EPISCOPO: I don`t know. I`ve never heard such a thing. And that`s just.

LALAMA: Bethany Marshall, any clues why she might need a psychological evaluation before they release her?

MARSHALL: The only thing I can think of at this point is to determine whether she`s a harm to herself or others. I mean one of the things.

EPISCOPO: Exactly.

MARSHALL: . that`s associated with pathological lying is antisocial personality disorder. What`s associated with that besides disregard for the -- for the rights of others is really reckless disregard for the safety of others. But I really think it`s whether she`s suicidal or homicidal at this point.

LALAMA: All right. So we don`t know, it could be Tuesday. It could be Wednesday. We`re just not sure at this point what`s going to happen.

Ronald Singer, I want to talk about forensics in this matter. You know, we`re going to get a response, but we may never get it. You know, from your expertise, is this something that the public should be privy to, from a scientific -- you`re coming from a scientist`s perspective. Is that something the public needs to know about?

SINGER: Well, I think eventually the public will know about it, but not at this point. You know, it`s been -- the point has been made several times already tonight that Miss Anthony hasn`t been charged with anything yet in the way of a homicide.

And I think that this is -- as an ongoing investigation, I think that whether the police have the DNA results right now or not, they`re playing it very close to the vest because they`re continuing their investigation. I think that if and when she`s charged with homicide, then I think that all of this will become public. And at that point, I think that the public does have a right to know, of course.

LALAMA: Holly Hughes, as a former prosecutor, does it hurt the state`s case or help -- you know, harm it? And what does it do if the public is privy to what the investigation reveals?

HUGHES: Well, at this point, I think they`re keeping it close to the chest because they haven`t filed the homicide charges yet. They don`t want people going out there destroying evidence. They don`t want -- especially now that Casey is looking to get out, they don`t want her destroying evidence if, in fact, they found something that links her to homicide, Pat.

So it`s not going to affect the trial. The DNA results are the DNA results. You`re not going to mess with the science. And the great thing about what we always say is science doesn`t lie. You might have a witness lie but science doesn`t lie. So they`re keeping this close to the chest so that they can complete their investigation, go out there and find anything else that`s going to help them prosecute.

And, of course, once they`ve done that and filed those charges, we`re all going to know what the DNA results are and it`s not going to affect admissibility at trial, Pat, not at all.

LALAMA: Joe Episcopo, you got any kind of feeling one way or the other about this?

EPISCOPO: Yes. There`s a rule on this. Generally, evidence isn`t released until the arraignment. It`s given to the attorney. Once it`s given to the attorney then it`s released to the public. That`s generally how it`s done. There`s nothing that says they -- we have to get that information right away. It`s really involved in the case and the defense attorney.

LALAMA: You know, my question for Bill Majeski is, you know, what if -- you know, what if all of a sudden after she -- her release is executed, then they file charges? What does that do? She goes right back to jail? Give -- explain the process for us.

MAJESKI: Yes, I mean, she would absolutely go right -- once charges are filed, if she has been released and is on a bond, they would immediately bring her back to jail and re-arraign her on the current charges. But the thing is.

LALAMA: All right. Joe is arguing with you silently.

EPISCOPO: No, no, no.

LALAMA: Let`s -- Joe, do you dispute that?

EPISCOPO: No, listen, if she`s bonded on child neglect.

MAJESKI: Yes.

EPISCOPO: . and lying to the police, she`s not going to come back to jail.

MAJESKI: No, no, wait a second.

EPISCOPO: If she`s charged with a new crime.

MAJESKI: I said if she`s -- that`s exactly what I said. If she`s charged with another crime then absolutely.

EPISCOPO: Another crime.

MAJESKI: . they would bring her right back.

LALAMA: That`s what I`m saying, she`s charged with murder. Absolutely, they would bring her right back.

EPISCOPO: Of course, of course.

LALAMA: All right. And then all that.

EPISCOPO: She`d be rearrested on the new charge.

MAJESKI: Absolutely, re-arraigned. Absolutely.

LALAMA: And, Mr. Padilla, what happens -- all right, well, OK.

You know, Holly Hughes, I`ve been wanting to ask this all night. You know people are waiting, they`re waiting, they`re waiting, are there going to be more charges? You know from a state -- from the state`s perspective, what`s that one thread -- we all know circumstantial cases are winnable, so we know that`s, you know -- that`s in the card.

What`s the weakest possible case to take to the public here? Do you what -- do you follow my question?

HUGHES: Well, I do, Pat.

LALAMA: What`s the least amount of evidence do you need for the state to go to the D.A. or the district attorney here go OK, we`re ready, let`s go file.

HUGHES: Well, I tell you what. What you want to do is investigate fully because you don`t want to go forward with a case when you think there`s more possible evidence out there. Because once you try that person, if they`re acquitted that`s it. It`s called double jeopardy. It`s a legal concept...

LALAMA: Right.

HUGHES: . that says once you charged him you can`t go back and charge him more later. So I think what they`re doing is being very cautious. They`re making sure -- you know, they`re out there. They`re looking for a body. They`re looking for those DNA results. If that is, in fact, decomposition, what other dead body was in her car?

You know why did she dump that car in the first place? I mean, she didn`t have any other vehicle to get around in, so why ditch it? Why get rid of it? There`s so much that doesn`t make sense in this case. And we need to give investigators time to figure all that out.

And one other thing I want to point out tonight, Pat, the first thing this woman said is they`re going to pin this on me. That`s why I didn`t report it. That tells me a whole lot about what her number one concern is, and it`s herself, not her baby.

LALAMA: 15 seconds, Mr. Padilla, your response to that.

PADILLA: That`s people working on a homicide. I`ve got no involvement in that. I`m looking for her like she`s alive.

LALAMA: Do you plan on sitting down and talk to her, face to face?

PADILLA: Oh sure, once she`s out. Yes. I have no involvement in the homicide investigation or any part of it. That`s not my gig.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.

Now let`s just remind ourselves and the viewers. She has been charged with child neglect and making false statements and nothing else at this point.

Mr. Padilla, your first order of business when this release is executed? Are you -- I`m trying to get back to where I was before. Are you going to sit down and say, now, come on, Casey, let`s have a talk? How are you going to go about this?

PADILLA: I`m just going to ask her to make my life easy.

LALAMA: Give me a quick line.

PADILLA: That`s it. Make my life easy. Look what you`re putting me through. You got 150 of these guys on television accusing me of being a sensationalist. Help me out.

LALAMA: Real quickly, Mr. Episcopo, you want to make a point about the speedy trial laws in this state. Very quickly.

EPISCOPO: Well, one thing of the reasons that they`re not charging her with anything else if they are going to do that is because there`s a speedy trial rule and she has to be brought to trial within a maximum of 190 days on a charge that`s filed against her.

That`s the speedy trial. They don`t have enough evidence to file other charges to get around that rule. And that`s the reason why I don`t believe she`s charged.

LALAMA: All right, you know what there? We`ve got a big week ahead. And there`s so much more. We`re going to be waiting patiently or not so patiently for what happens next with Casey. We`ll be here and we`ll have it all for you. And you`re going to come back. You guys promised you`ll be back.

PADILLA: Yes, I promise.

LALAMA: All right. Terrific. OK.

PADILLA: I want the public to realize that you invited me.

LALAMA: I did invite you.

PADILLA: I did not impose me here.

LALAMA: Yes, that`s the truth.

PADILLA: Or whatever these folks.

LALAMA: OK. That is the absolute truth.

PADILLA: OK.

LALAMA: Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Corporal Joshua Molina. He is 20 from Houston, Texas, killed in Iraq. A sports fanatic, he loved playing basketball and watching football with his sister. Remembered for his great stories and making others laugh. He dreamed of college and being a Border Patrol or FBI agent. He leaves behind parents, Jose and Maria, sister, Paula, and brother, Manuel.

Joshua Molina, a true American hero.

Thank you so much for being with us tonight. I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy.

Thank you for the opportunity, Nancy. All of you have a great evening. Back tomorrow 8:00 p.m. sharp, Eastern. I`ll see you then. Please be here with me. Good night.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../18/ng.01.htm

[Blonde]

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 18, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: This is a "FOX News Alert." Republican sources are telling FOX News Channel that John McCain will announce his vice presidential running mate on August 29 in Dayton, Ohio. Now, that is the day after Senator Barack Obama will officially accept his party's nomination at the Democratic convention in Denver. We are expecting Senator Obama to announce his vice presidential running mate this week. Reports say Senator Obama could announce his pick as early as Wednesday. Stay tuned. FOX News will have all the news as it unfolds.

And tonight, the countdown. It's on. Could jailed mother Casey Anthony be just hours away from walking out of a Florida jail? Casey is being held in jail on $500,000 bond, the only person of interest in her toddler daughter Caylee's disappearance. Now a bail bondsmen and bounty hunter have arrived in Florida to post Casey's bond.

The bounty hunter will go "On the Record" in moments, but first, joining us live is Joe Baez, Casey Anthony's lawyer. Welcome back to the show, Jose.

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY'S ATTORNEY: Thank you, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: First of all, how's your client doing?

BAEZ: She's hanging in there. She's doing the best she can under the circumstances. And she's certainly excited of the possibility of getting out.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, you say the possibility of getting out. Is there any risk that the prosecutor's going to add a few more charges, raising the bond, so that posting $500,000 bond isn't going to do it?

BAEZ: Well, if they're going to add the charges or increase them, our way of looking at it is -- you know, what we want to do is -- what could be a positive outcome of this is if they decide to file, obviously, more serious charges, we'd be forcing them to do something that they are not exactly ready to do yet. And any time you can get them to do something they don't want to do, it's certainly a wise move, and we're looking at that as a positive aspect of this.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Obviously, you're hinting around that they would seek the most serious charges, some form of murder charges or something. But short of that, one of the charges she's charged with is lying to investigators. And I take it that there was more than one investigator present when she allegedly lied so they could trump it up that way. They could simply add another count of lying to investigators.

BAEZ: Well, they could. I think they would look rather silly in doing so. But I would certainly be ready to argue that that's part in parcel of the same offense and it is a continuing transaction of the original offense. Therefore, I would strongly be arguing against that. And that's certainly something we're prepared to do.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Jose, the million-dollar question. Your client says she has information about where her daughter is. Why isn't she helping the police?

BAEZ: That's a little incorrect, Greta.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

BAEZ: She has stated on numerous times she does not know where her daughter is. And if she did, I'm certain she would have come forward. She would have told me about it. She would have told law enforcement or her family.

I think her getting out can only be a positive thing because I think it would allow, A, me to have certainly more access to her and open access to her, where I can actually speak to her frankly and we don't have to worry about third parties listening in, and she can actually partake in part of the investigation and help finding Caylee. I really only think that that -- that can only be a positive.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. I know from talking to, you're a good lawyer. You're not going to betray your client's confidences and tell me any attorney-client relationship information. I'm confident of that, so I'm not going to ask it. However, let me ask you this...

BAEZ: Thank you.

VAN SUSTEREN: Has she given you information to suggest -- or has she given you information that satisfies you why she didn't go to the police when the child first vanished?

BAEZ: She has. And I think when the facts come out, you're going to hear a very compelling reason as to why she acted in the way she did and why she made some of these statements that she made. And unfortunately, I have to save that for my opening statement. What everyone wants to know, it's not going to be in the court of public opinion, it's going to be in a court of law.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, supposedly her -- the mother, the grandmother of the child on the 15th of July was told by your client that the child would be coming home the next day. Was that a lie?

BAEZ: You know, I wasn't part of that conversation and I haven't spoken to Ms. Cindy Anthony about that, so I really can't comment on it. I'm not aware of that statement made by her.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have an expectation as to when the money will be posted and the paperwork completed and she will likely walk out the door, assuming that everything goes as planned?

BAEZ: Well, I would expect that to take place possibly within the next 24 hours. There are some -- there is quite a bit of red tape because of this case's unique situation and some of the orders that were put in place. But we're ready to get through them and we're ready to cut through that red tape and finally get her out, so maybe we can just get a little bit closer to finding Caylee. And that we're very excited about.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Jose. I know that tomorrow's going to be pretty chaotic. And if she gets out tomorrow, will you come back tomorrow night?

BAEZ: I can't make any promises, but I'll certainly do my best. I think your show is a very informative one and it's an objective one, and it's certainly one that we like appearing on.

VAN SUSTEREN: Jose, thank you, and you know, with luck on our side, we'll see you tomorrow night. Thank you, Jose.

BAEZ: Thank you, Greta. Have a good night.

VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us live is bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Welcome, Leonard.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Good evening, Greta. How are you?

VAN SUSTEREN: And Leonard, just to satisfy all the viewers that are mad at me, you pronounce your last name Padilla, right, not "Pad-iya."

PADILLA: In English, it's Padilla. And if you were speaking in Spanish, I'd say "Pad-iya."

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, OK.

PADILLA: But for this show, it's Padilla.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Great. All right. Are you ready to bail Casey out of jail?

PADILLA: In speaking to my nephew about an hour ago, it seems as though in the meeting with the attorney this afternoon, a lot of the details were worked out. As the attorney said and stated, it's a situation where there's a lot of red tape involved and you have to take it a step at a time. And obviously, here we are, and he...

VAN SUSTEREN: Give me an idea...

PADILLA: He's ready if...

VAN SUSTEREN: Give me an idea what this red tape is because, typically, what you do is you just show up and you give the bond and you sign the papers and it's a done deal. What's the red tape?

PADILLA: Well, there has to be notification -- I don't know what the rules are, but what I understand, there has to be notification to the court clerk who notifies the investigating agency. There has to be a home monitoring device in place, which I believe will be in place tomorrow. And I think there's -- there's one thing on there -- if you go on the computer, and it says something about a hold that they haven't described, in other words. So somebody obviously has to find out what that hold is. It doesn't explain it when you look on the booking in the computer.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Have you had a chance to meet with Casey's parents?

PADILLA: I met with them yesterday.

VAN SUSTEREN: What's your thoughts?

PADILLA: (INAUDIBLE) After the vigil.

VAN SUSTEREN: What's your impression?

PADILLA: A hundred percent better than, you know, what I thought it would be. They're a very, very distraught family. They're just totally gut-wrenched. They have a lot of distrust for what's going on. My own personal opinion is that I think something that hasn't been emphasized enough, there's a $250,000 reward out there for the safe return of the little girl. I've said it this morning, and I'm going to say it again here on your show. It's a situation where I'm not interested in the reward. If somebody turns her loose at a grocery store, we're not interested in prosecuting or anything. That's law enforcement.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, let me interrupt you for one second...

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: When you were here on Friday night -- when you were here on Friday night, you conveyed to me, at least if I have it right, that you believe that the child is alive and can be found.

PADILLA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: At least -- OK. What -- I mean, a lot of people don't have that view. What is the basis or the support for that view? How do you arrive at that?

PADILLA: I arrive at it because there's no proof that the child is deceased. None whatsoever. If there was, believe me, law enforcement would have charged her mother or somebody with a homicide, manslaughter, something to that effect. But also, I look at her as a young lady that tells half-truths at times, and I believe that there's somebody out there that has that child that she allowed to baby-sit it, and then the child was not brought back for whatever reason. That's the way I'm looking at it.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. But basically...

PADILLA: I sincerely believe...

VAN SUSTEREN: Basically, you buy her version of the events, but what you agree is that she tells half-truths, which some people, frankly, might call lies.

PADILLA: That's correct.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

PADILLA: In the bounty hunting business, we call them half-truths because sometimes mixed into a thousand lies or falsehoods, there's just one grain of truth. And you have to use that as a lead, as a jumping-off place to start your investigation, to lead to something else.

VAN SUSTEREN: Got it. All right. Got it. So I hope you'll come back, as well, tomorrow night, Leonard. I just checked to see if Jose would come back, Jose Baez. I hope you'll come back, as well. Thank you, Leonard.

PADILLA: You're welcome. You're very welcome.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now for your "On the Record" live vote this evening. Go to Gretawire.com and answer this simple question. If Casey Anthony makes bond, do you think she will try to flee, yes or no? We'll read your results at the end of the hour.

And coming up: You just heard from the bounty hunter. Now you will see what happened when the bounty hunter met with Casey Anthony's brother, Lee, for the first time. Lee responds to the news that his sister, Casey, could be walking out of jail. You will hear from Casey's brother next.

And later: "On the Record" is on the ground in Orlando, digging for answers in this disappearance. Will the jailed mother's cell phone records lead police to a crime scene? We're going to show you where pings from Casey's cell phone may have been picked up shortly after her daughter vanished.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Our "On the Record" team is on the ground in Orlando, investigating the disappearance of little Caylee Anthony. Caylee Anthony's grandfather says he last saw the toddler on June 16. And according to reports, the very next day, Caylee's jailed mother's cell phone records show that someone was in a densely wooded area with the mother's phone. "On the Record" producer Justin Wells went to the area of Orlando Casey may have gone that day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUSTIN WELLS, FOX NEWS PRODUCER: Here we are. We are just a little bit off of state road -- it's a toll road, 417. Now, 417 is a main road in central Florida. Right there, you see a car pull by, but it's one of the first that we've seen in a little while out here. "On the Record" has checked out many different areas southeast of the airport where we feel these cell phone calls came from. We've talked to many sources, and they say on the 17th, Casey did make phone calls from a wooded area southeast of the airport.

There are many cell phone towers around here, and then as you can see, just less than a mile away from state road, the toll road over there, 417, we pull off. That's our car there "On the Record," and within just a few seconds, you cross that little fence there. It's easy to get through, and you're in the middle of some thick brush and definitely plenty of water around.

Watch the 'On the Record' report

Now, here we are near the airport. There's a plane taking off right there. So you can tell we are in very close proximity to where the airport is. This is a bridge that is just a little ways away, and it goes over a body of water right here. Now, once you cross this body of water, you really get into a thick brush, a wooded area. And that wooded area is just full of all kinds of canals, all kinds of waterways.

And most of it, when you go along the airport area, is gated. You see throughout these big fences and you see the "No trespassing" signs everywhere. But it is not an electric fence. It's actually not going to be that difficult to get through to the area. As you can see, you just walk down an area like this, which is for drainage off the bridge. And when you walk down, there are many areas of the fence that are just completely collapsed and have fallen down. So it would be very easy to park a car, like we did just up there, up the road, walk down at any point, and you can make your way into the brush.

When people think of Orlando, they think of Disney World, they think of, you know, big hotels and family fun. What they don't realize is there's a lot of wooded areas, a lot of different types of canals and waterways in the area, and that's because in central Florida, you are right in the middle of the Everglades. You are right in the middle of a lot of nature and a lot of really isolated areas.

And we're talking here only a few miles away from the airport. As you can see, there's nobody here. It's the middle of the afternoon, and there's nobody in this area. All you hear is nature and some of the planes that are above.

Now, as we've walked just a little further from the road now, you can see that there's more water. There's more areas that are really a little ways away from this road right here. That road you see there, we only see a car come down -- I would say one or two cars every five minutes or so. So you can imagine late at night or once it's dark, it would be hard to see anyone once they're this far out in the middle of everything. There's just brush everywhere, flies, gnats, of course, as you'd expect. And then when you look out here, you see waterway after waterway.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: "On the Record" producer Justin Wells joins us live from Orlando. Justin, looking at the video that you guys shot, it's massive, the area that at least looks, you know, like, I don't know, just barren or full of nature. Have there been extensive searches in this area?

WELLS: You know, there have been many searches. And you know, some of them are done by police, but now the new thing that's happened since they talked about this pinging of the cell phone towers in the area, we're seeing other people go out and search. Internet bloggers are now going out and searching in various areas. We've got other little groups of people that are going out and they're searching the woods, they're trying to find something. One group even found a pair of sandals. They found some other clothing this past weekend.

So one thing we're seeing is, it's law enforcement that's searching, and in many cases, we've got just individual citizens who are out there searching, trying to find something, as well.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. The pinging that we understand, at least we've been told by some sources is in that area, is from her cell phone -- her being Casey, the mother who is in jail. Now, it's possible somebody else had the phone. Is there anyone who puts that phone in her hand on the 17th? Or I guess another way to say it, did she herself use the phone in the days after? Do we have any sort of corroboration at all?

WELLS: That's the problem we have right now. There's no corroboration right now that she even used that phone. There's been talk of other phones. There was a Samsung Black Jack that disappeared. The phone situation has been just completely -- you don't know what's going to happen next because one second, you've got her with this cell phone, the other cell phone. You know, the baby-sitter may have had a cell phone with this area code.

As far as, you know, a typical person that has a phone and they have everybody in their phone book, well, this girl's all over the place with her phones, and you know, the people she's calling, too. It's been very, very difficult to track all of the cell phone records in this. All we've gotten so far is them pinging that cell phone to that wooded area.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. We've got 20 seconds left. Do you have any update on when it's likely that she's going to be bailed out, assuming it all goes through?

WELLS: You know, we're hearing right now from our sources on the ground at "On the Record" that it could happen first thing in the morning. There are many things that have to happen for that to take place. There's a second protocol, after they take care of the money. That could involve some kind of evaluation, we're hearing right now, some evaluation of her state of mind, perhaps. Once that's done, that is when they will probably move on to the next process, which is getting that lock on her and putting her in home confinement.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Justin Wells on the ground for us in Orlando. Thank you, Justin.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,406001,00.html

[Blonde]

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 19, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight: Well, she's not out. Yes, the jailed mother of the missing toddler is still cooling her heels in jail. Casey Anthony expected to get out of jail today, but tonight she's still there, stuck in jail for at least one more night. Why? Well, it does seem perplexing. A bail bondsman and a bounty hunter are in Orlando, claiming they are ready and able to post Casey's $500,000 bond. So why is she still in the slammer? Casey has been locked up since July 16 for allegedly lying to investigators and failing to report her toddler, Caylee, missing. And remember, Caylee never was reported missing by her mother. The child's grandmother reported it.

Meanwhile, detectives returned today to the home of Caylee Anthony's grandparents. FOX caught up with the lead detective in the case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty resilient being out here in a tropical storm.
Related

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us what you're doing here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just talking with the family (INAUDIBLE) swing by whenever we have information we went to share with them. You guys be careful in this weather.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us live is bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Good evening, Leonard.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Good evening. How are you?

VAN SUSTEREN: I'm very well, Leonard. OK, I don't get it. Why isn't she out? That's my question number two (SIC). And question number two, are you having some sort of bond war with a Tampa, Florida, bondsman? What's the...

PADILLA: No, no, no, no, no. He's fine. He's on board. He's here to post the bond. But what happened is some competitors basically out of the Miami area, Russell Favish (ph) and his boss, are sitting there, going through the insurance code book. And they say that in order for a California posting to be legitimately posted by a Florida bondsman that the agreement (ph), which is $50,000, has to be paid to the Florida bondsman, when I've already paid the $50,000 to my nephew. That's never happened before. That's never been brought up before.

Watch Greta's interview

So tomorrow, Bob Sabel (ph), from the company in Houston that supplies the bonds, has to contact the insurance commissioner's office out of Florida for an interpretation. But these folks didn't want the post the bond. They didn't want to post the bond. They didn't want to do anything for the family. Somebody comes in from California, and there's this hue and wail from these folks down there. They're screaming bloody murder about, We're going to get the Padillas arrested. We've got influence with local police departments. There's all sorts of that stuff.

That doesn't bother us. It doesn't bother me, for sure. It's just a matter of the company calling the Florida insurance commissioner and saying, Look, if there is such a regulation, you've never enforced it. Why all of sudden is this being done?

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. So what is the back story? Is there -- I mean, you know, when you got bail bondsmen now apparently, you know, at war a little bit, you know, shooting in each other's direction...

PADILLA: No, no, no. They're just...

(CROSSTALK)

PADILLA: They're just jealous.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Trying to prevent...

PADILLA: They're just jealous.

VAN SUSTEREN: What are they jealous about?

PADILLA: They're jealous.

VAN SUSTEREN: What are -- because you're not even supposedly making money on this, so what are they jealous of?

PADILLA: That they didn't do it. They don't want to -- we used to have a hog when I was a kid, and she wouldn't eat but she wouldn't let the piglets eat, either.

(LAUGHTER)

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, moving on, we got -- at least we got that established. So when is she getting out?

PADILLA: Well, right now, Bob Sabel is going to contact the Department of Insurance in Florida and say, Hey, their interpretation of this is wrong. Our agent from California has come to our agent in Florida, which is -- his first name is Al. Al is ready to post the bond. This regulation here that the people in Miami brought to your attention is wrong. Now, I would like to see Russell Favish sitting here, saying, Yes, this is the way it's interpreted in Florida. This is what has to be done.

VAN SUSTEREN: So what's your...?

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: So what's your expectation as to when she's going to walk out the door? Because, I mean, the only thing that's holding her is that $500,000 bond...

PADILLA: Correct.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... And some monitoring requirements, which I'll get to later on.

PADILLA: Yes. Yes. That's -- I don't think that -- I don't think that's difficult to overcome.

VAN SUSTEREN: That's not (INAUDIBLE) But $500,000 -- you've got -- you've got the bond ready to go, the $50,000...

PADILLA: Al's got the bond. Al's got the bond. He's been in town for two days.

VAN SUSTEREN: Has the prosecutor weighed in on this at all? Has the prosecutor said anything like, I'm going to...

PADILLA: I haven't talked to him...

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Raise the charges? Nothing?

PADILLA: I have not talked to him. The company has not talked to him. My nephew has not talked to him.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Have you spoken to the grandparents?

PADILLA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: In the last 24 hours, have you spoken to them?

PADILLA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What are they saying?

PADILLA: When's she going to get out?

VAN SUSTEREN: That's it?

PADILLA: Yes. I mean, you know, no, we don't discuss any particulars of the case with them. You know, Hey, how's it going? What's happening, you know?

VAN SUSTEREN: Have you made any effort to meet Caylee -- or Casey, rather?

PADILLA: No. No. I'm more interested in sitting here and explaining to people and saying, Bring the child back. Tell them that her mother said, Baby-sit this child for two months, you bring her back, you can claim to reward and you don't go to jail.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have any explanation -- why would a mother want someone to baby-sit a child for two months? Bring the child back...

(CROSSTALK)

PADILLA: I don't think she wanted her baby-sat for two months. I think it was a couple days.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. All right. All right -- and what happened?

PADILLA: And somebody ran off with her.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. What's the factual basis that gives rise to that conclusion of yours? I mean, there's a difference between having some sort of, like, fanciful thought and having reasonable inferences based on...

PADILLA: She told the police department that she had taken her to Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez to be baby-sat while she went for work. There's got to be a grain of salt that's truthful, a grain of sand that's the truth amongst all those lies. And I do believe that she took the child...

VAN SUSTEREN: Why?

PADILLA: ... To somebody to baby-sit, and I think that person left.

VAN SUSTEREN: But why does there have to be a grain of truth? I mean, it could be all lies. It could be part lies. It could be a little bitty lie. But I mean, it's -- you know, this -- you know, what would possess her to -- I mean, why -- why do you believe any part of this?

PADILLA: Greta, Greta, I've chased fugitives and been involved in situations like this, and there's always some truth that you look for, and from there, you get your lead, and from there, you follow it up.

VAN SUSTEREN: Maybe the truth is that that's her daughter and the rest of it is lies. I mean, if you're going to -- if you're going to, like, grab for some truth -- if you think there has to be some truth there -- I mean, I'll give you that one, that it's her daughter. What I'm having a hard time understanding is why -- upon what do you make your sort of -- your conclusion that...

PADILLA: I just told you. I don't want believe she's dead. I really sincerely and honestly believe she's alive.

VAN SUSTEREN: I don't, either.

PADILLA: I think the story is out there about the reward. Let's keep pushing that. And let's get somebody to be convinced that they should bring her in.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have any theory why she isn't talking to the police, based on facts? I mean, are there -- I should say give me facts to explain...

PADILLA: You know, it's -- I've seen in the past where right away, when somebody lawyers up, they say, Don't talk to the cops, don't day nothing. Be careful with the other people in the cellblock because of snitches. And if the person -- if an attorney has client control -- you're an attorney. Client control is important. They don't talk to anybody about anything while they're in jail. They don't even trust talking to their own attorney most of the time because they figure the room's bugged and the cops are going to cheat.

VAN SUSTEREN: You know, I -- Leonard, I just -- I just have a really hard time understanding a mother with a missing child is going to think of her own neck in those circumstances, unless she's up to her eyeballs in it, that she's going to worry about whether she makes an incriminating statements, if she thinks that someone's run off with her child. I just have a hard time...

PADILLA: Attorney -- an attorney...

VAN SUSTEREN: I mean, I have a hard time believing that one.

PADILLA: Do you understand that the attorney has told her not to speak to anybody?

VAN SUSTEREN: Of course. Of course. And that's the advice I would give her. But do you also understand that if the mother is missing a child, that mothers typically want to find that child and don't think about keeping -- they don't think about keeping the agreement with the lawyer, they think about finding the child.

PADILLA: She did a stupid thing going in, and now it's compounded by lying to the cops, and now maybe she has this fear that, What if I caused - - if the cops go after this individual, it causes my child's death or harm? I mean, I don't know what she's thinking, but I'm speculating anything that fits with the child being alive.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, you know what, Leonard? I so hope that you are right and that I'm dead wrong...

PADILLA: I hope so, too.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... In my -- I mean, I'm wrong in my suspicions. All right.

PADILLA: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So Leonard, anyway, I'll see you tomorrow night, right? You'll come back after we find out what happens with this whole mess with the bonds tomorrow?

PADILLA: You got it.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. I'll see you tomorrow night.

PADILLA: Listen, get Russell Favish in here. He's the one that's causing all the stink.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, I'll work on that one, as well. I'll work on that. Leonard, I'll see you tomorrow night.

All right. For more than a month, Casey has been sitting behind bars. If she gets out tomorrow on bond, what will be the first thing Casey sees when she walks out of jail? "On the Record" producer Justin Wells is on the ground in Orlando.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUSTIN WELLS, FOX PRODUCER: Here we are outside the booking and release center, and "On the Record" has learned some exclusive details on what will happen once the bond is posted, if Casey actually does get out.

Now, the guys are going to go in this door. They're going to post the bond. And then the process takes place. What happens next? Well, we've just found out that Casey will actually come out a blue door. You seek the fence right there. And if you look in, you can see the blue door, the fencing. She'll walk around there. There's a big desk right here. She'll walk around that desk, she'll come out this door, right through the front, according to the jail, and then she will walk down the sidewalk.

Now, the Sidewalk is normally not blocked off to media, but with a high-profile case like this, they know there will be plenty of media around. Because of that, they are going to take some extra precautions. They say it's not because this is a special circumstance. It is very simple. They need to keep the door free and clear because it could be a fire hazard.

The other thing that's at play here is, you know, the media's going to swarm in. People need to get in and out because they have issues to take care of here at the booking and release center. So the fencing is going to be a little rope, and it's going to go down all the way down here. It's going to probably stop, they tell me, somewhere around here, once we get to the parking lot. In the parking lot, the fencing stops.

That's where the jail is telling me tonight that the protection of Casey on their end will stop. That's when the bond team takes over and takes over her protection. They could from here -- maybe they park the car over here, maybe they parked it back there, and she may be walking across the parking lot. Chances are, the car will just be pulled up right here, and she'll pop in and they'll take her away.

That's what we've learned exclusively about the set-up here at the booking and release center, if and when Casey does walk out of here, potentially tomorrow or sometime this week.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: If Casey Anthony does get out of jail, she is going to be wearing an ankle bracelet, one that will monitor her movements. Well, how do these ankle bracelets work? Are the bracelets reliable, or could it be easy for Casey to simply hit the road?

Joining us live is Alan Velasquez, vice president of operations for Sentinel Offender Services. Now, Alan's company is not handling Casey Anthony's case, but works with similar bracelet technology. Welcome, Alan.

ALAN VELASQUEZ, SENTINEL OFFENDER SERVICES: Thank you.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Tell me, first of all, who puts this bracelet on an offender's leg?

VELASQUEZ: The majority of the time in these types of programs, there'll actually be a correctional officer that is required to install the ankle transmitter on the participant's ankle.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you happen to have one with you, by any chance?

VELASQUEZ: Yes, I do. I have one right here. They're all quite similar in design. It is a radio frequency-based transmitter that emits an encoded signal that is received by the home monitoring unit which is issued to the offender, which is connected at the offender's residence and reports all of the activities of the ankle transmitter 24 hours a day.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you wear this bracelet. You're in your house and you can move freely around the house. It's when you leave the perimeter of the house? Is that when it goes off?

VELASQUEZ: That is correct. The home monitoring unit is connected to the participant's residential telephone line and it uses a toll-free 800 number to contact the national monitoring center that is monitored by a monitoring company. And that is the system that processes all the alarms that are received from the participant wearing the device.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you sleep in it, you take a shower in it, the whole works. The offender, the person who's wearing it, or the person accused of a crime who's out on bond doesn't take it off at any time.

VELASQUEZ: That is correct. It is designed with a tamper-proof strap so that if the participant decided to cut the device or remove it without authorization, it will automatically issue a tamper alarm, which is received by the home monitoring unit and it is related to the national monitoring center for prompt notification to the correctional agencies involved in handling the supervision of the participant.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. And I don't mean to be obsessive, but I mean, you wear it in the shower. I mean, you just literally wear it at all times. It's waterproof, it's everything.

VELASQUEZ: It's waterproof. It's shock-resistant. It is hypoallergenic. It is designed so that the offender can wear it 24 hours a day without any health concerns.

VAN SUSTEREN: Alan, thank you.

VELASQUEZ: Thank you.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,406804,00.html

[Blonde]

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 20, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight: Jailed mother Casey Anthony's $500,000 bond has been posted. So now the jailed mother can go home, right? Wrong. Casey Anthony is still locked up tonight where she's been since July 16, the only person of interest in her daughter, Caylee's, disappearance. How is this possible? The bounty hunter who posted Casey's bond goes "On the Record" in just a few moments.

But first, joining us live in Orlando is "On the Record" producer Justin Wells. Justin take me back to earlier today, before the bond was posted. Give me the -- you know, the play-by-play. What happened?

JUSTIN WELLS, FOX PRODUCER: Typically, it's not so complicated to post a bond, but today, it was quite a scene. It started with a very secret meeting that only "On the Record" knew about. And that was back just a few blocks away, over at an IHOP. It's not far away from the jail here.

Then after that secret meeting, which was with both lawyers, Jose Baez, Michael Walsh, the co-counsel, the Padillas were also there. They were there, as well as the bond people that were working on this deal -- Al Estes. Al Estes is from over in Clearwater, Florida, which is about a two- hour drive away from here, in the Tampa Bay area. He came over. They all met up over at the IHOP.

Watch Greta's interview

Once they got over here, well, things changed because first, we saw Leonard. Of course, you couldn't miss him with the cowboy hat, and of course, his team of security, led by Rob Dick, who is heading up the security for them. Now, once those guys got here, they were over on the corner, waiting for several minutes. The other people, the Baez team and the bondsman from the Tampa area, hadn't made their way over from the secret meeting here to the booking center at the Department of Corrections.

So they waited on the corner I'd say about 20 minutes. And then, all of a sudden, the bondsman pulled up. Well, he pulled up. He came in here. He was ready to go. The media was in a frenzy. While that was going on, we've learned that Jose Baez, the counsel for Casey Anthony, went to the back of the jail. There's a separate entrance where he meets with his clients. And he had a meeting with Casey Anthony as this was all ongoing today.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why didn't she get out?

WELLS: Well, you know, it's a very complicated process. The first part is done, the money. But that really, with her specific situation, has to be done in the morning in order for her to get out the same day. Why? Because there's a couple other steps after the bond is posted. The bond wasn't posted until late in the afternoon.

Step two involves what the jail calls a confidential situation. "On the Record" has learned through our sources that that step two is actually some kind of evaluation of her state of mind.

Now, once that's complete -- that can be processed rather quickly -- they move on to the third part, which is the confinement device. Typically, that parts needs to be done during business hours. When you're posting around 4:00, 5:00 o'clock in the afternoon, the people that usually strap that on somebody's ankle, they're going home for the day.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. I don't want to put you in the position of being an apologist for everybody else, but I mean, it wasn't like this was a big surprise. Is there any reason why the lawyer, the bondsman and the security people couldn't have gotten there at 9:00 o'clock this morning, instead of going over to the IHOP and having their meeting?

WELLS: Well, a lot of things had to be worked today, quite a few things. And we're learning small details about what possibly has taken so long to get this resolved. The guys showed up Monday. Since then, it's been like the movie "Groundhog Day," like every day with Bill Murray. I wake up at 5:00 AM. It's the same day. Is she going to get out? We're making our calls. We're checking in with our sources. By the end of the day, nothing happens.

So we weren't really sure what to expect today. But this time around, you know, it seems like we're hearing -- at least, what we heard from Jose Baez today -- that there were some agreements that needed to be worked out. When Leonard arrived here, he initially said, I'm going to get the answers, I'm going to find out what happened to that girl, Caylee. Well, now Jose is coming out and saying he's instructed his client -- he can't talk to the Padillas. He cannot talk to them whatsoever. She's going to now have to only talk to her parents and him. The Padillas are only there to protect the bond which they've posted.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right, Justin, thank you, as always.

Now, this is a secret meeting that Justin witnessed and just talked about between Casey's legal team and the men who later posted her bond.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WELLS: The car on the right you see right now is actually Mr. Padilla's car and his team. On the left, it is the legal team's car. We saw Jose Baez get out of that car. They are having a secret meeting just before they head down to the jail. Now, from here to the jail, we would say it is just a few blocks. This is right next to the jail. It is the closest restaurant, and they are having a secret meeting right now to discuss what's about to take place.

There they are right now, walking out of their secret meeting -- this is exclusive video right now -- the lawyers and also Mr. Padilla. Here they are right now. They're driving over as we speak. We're going to follow them out. They're about to post the bond any minute here.

Leonard, what's about to happen?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: They're going to be driving the bond over there in just about two minutes.

WELLS: About two minutes? Are you going to head over with them or...

PADILLA: (INAUDIBLE)

WELLS: So everybody's going to head over, and then you're going to speak to the media about what's just happened.

DINA EDWARDS, BAIL AGENT: Regarding the bail being posted for Casey Anthony, I quote FDS (ph) senior vice president Robert Sabel (ph). "Personally, I believe there is no punishment too severe for anyone that harms a child. However, I also believe in our Constitution and the vital function our industry serves in helping individuals with their constitutional rights."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As far as -- how could you phrase this, as far as Casey Anthony now getting out of jail, the process you just went through for 20 minutes? Where does that put her walking out of jail?

AL ESTES, BONDSMAN: Whenever this -- whenever the jail releases her, whatever time it takes them, well, then, that's -- that'll be the process. It's up to the jail next. They'll have to go to work doing what they are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So most likely tomorrow, sometime around mid- morning, mid-afternoon? Who's (ph) going to be walking out of jail now, thanks to what you just did?

ESTES: Oh, I wouldn't begin to even say when she'll be released because there's just no way of telling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, once the jailed mother, Casey Anthony, is released, will the men who posted Casey's bond have any special access to her? Earlier, FOX News spoke to Casey Anthony's lawyer, Jose Baez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY'S ATTORNEY: First of all, they will not have access to her. They just have one person who'll be staying in the home. They are not to question her. I have specific instructions for the bondsman and the bounty hunters, and they are not to question her in any shape or form. And my client knows. My client is not a fool. She knows that she is not to speak with these people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VAN SUSTEREN: Joining us live is bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Leonard posted Casey's bond today. Welcome back to the show, Leonard.

PADILLA: How are you?

VAN SUSTEREN: I'm very well. So Leonard, one of the criteria for her to -- (CELL PHONE RINGS) You got to get that? Got that?

PADILLA: No, I don't have to.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK. Good. All right. One of the criteria for her to get out is that the money be posted. That has now been done, right, completely, all the papers signed?

PADILLA: The bond was posted this afternoon. There was also two smaller bonds posted for a couple of other items. I don't know exactly what they were. They were $100 each.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she have other charges?

PADILLA: And she'll be...

VAN SUSTEREN: Wait a second. Did she have...

PADILLA: I don't know what they were. I don't know what they were. They posted a $500,000 bond and two $100 bonds. I don't know what the $100 bonds were for.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. We'll have to check that. All right...

PADILLA: And she'll be released tomorrow.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, the state of mind evaluation, which is another criteria, apparently, that Florida has -- do you know if that's been completed?

PADILLA: No, it doesn't take place until the morning.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you have any idea how long it is supposed to take?

PADILLA: No. It's basically an evaluation. We just found out what it was -- what it meant this morning because it was a secret hold. It takes place within a couple of hours before she's released, and it has to do with her safety, more than anything else. In other words, is she suicidal or anything like that?

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, you may have just heard Justin describe this meeting at the IHOP as sort of a secret meeting. I guess it's secret because, you know, not many people knew about it. Is that how you would characterize it?

PADILLA: No, no. It was just the closest place to the jail where they could all sit down and do the paperwork and stuff that had to be done at the last minute before they went over to the jail.

VAN SUSTEREN: No reason why it wasn't done in Jose Baez's office or your hotel or any other reason? I mean...

PADILLA: No, no. I think it was just -- it was just a handy place. And Al said something, that there was an IHOP there. I didn't go there for the meeting at all. I just went by there and shook hands with Al and his people and went on over to the jail.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, Al is the bondsman from Tampa?

PADILLA: He's the local bondsman from Florida. And it was actually the young lady that walked (ph) and posted the bonds.

VAN SUSTEREN: Was Mr. Baez, Casey's lawyer, at this meeting at the IHOP?

PADILLA: I believe he walked in just as I was leaving, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, did you have a conversation with him?

PADILLA: No. No. I just said, Hi, how are you doing? And he and Rob, and I believe, were just -- he walking in with his partner and we were leaving.

VAN SUSTEREN: Once she is bailed out, once she walks out the door and has this evaluation, do you -- what happens? I mean, are you going to take her someplace? What's the plan?

PADILLA: No, we are going to -- we are transporting her to her mom's and dad's house. The people with the home monitoring device will run some tests and checks and -- to make sure that everything is working. I might be there. I might not. I don't know if I'm going over to the residence or not. I have a couple of other things to take care of tomorrow. So it just depends on what the day looks like.

VAN SUSTEREN: Has the monitoring device at her house already been set up?

PADILLA: The line has been set up, but when she walks in the house, they have to make sure that the signal transmits properly, and those folks have to make sure that everything's fine.

VAN SUSTEREN: Now, previously, you've told us that one of the reasons why you wanted to bail her out (INAUDIBLE) is because you thought that she would talk and help find her child and her child -- whatever...

PADILLA: Exactly. Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: OK.

PADILLA: Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, her lawyer says you're not going to be able to talk to her, so now what?

PADILLA: She -- I can't question her, but if she wants to volunteer information, that's up to her.

VAN SUSTEREN: And if she doesn't, that sort of diminishes your very purpose of getting her out.

PADILLA: No, no, no. People that get bailed out usually have conversations. You don't have to have a conversation about the case. You could have a conversation about anything you want.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, I guess I'm trying to understand, is usually people -- usually, bondsmen get a fee. You're not getting a fee at this time, right?

PADILLA: I'm not a bondsman. I'm the bounty hunter. I'm the guy that paid the fee. I paid it to my nephew.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. All right. So you're out 50 grand?

PADILLA: I paid $50,000, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: So your nephew is not going to give you that back.

PADILLA: No. He's got his own family to support.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So what would possess you to pay 50 grand out of your pocket to your nephew to bail her out?

PADILLA: Because I think she has the information required to find the little girl. There's a $250,000 reward out there, and every time I get on one of these programs, I want people to understand that the little girl can be dropped off at a drug store, and two days later, the guy can come in and claim the reward. And I'm not a cop. I'm, you know, not law enforcement. I'm not trying to make a case on it. Now, one of the early -- one of the...

VAN SUSTEREN: But let me just -- let me just (INAUDIBLE) Leonard.

PADILLA: Sure.

VAN SUSTEREN: Either you're going to get your $50,000 back from that reward, or you're going to eat $50,000, right?

PADILLA: Oh, I'm not going to eat $50,000. I'm...

VAN SUSTEREN: Where are you going to get it?

PADILLA: I'm a successful -- I'm a successful bounty hunter, believe me. If I can get this little girl back and it only costs me $50,000, it's worth it. Now...

VAN SUSTEREN: And if you can't?

PADILLA: ... if you feel bad about it...

VAN SUSTEREN: If you can't...

PADILLA: If Rupert...

VAN SUSTEREN: If you can't...

PADILLA: If Rupert Murdoch feels bad about it, why don't he reimburse me half of it?

VAN SUSTEREN: I don't think -- what's got Rupert Murdoch into this? But all right. All right...

PADILLA: Well, he owns FOX. Hell, they're representing him, just like that idiot Bo Dietl does.

VAN SUSTEREN: I -- I don't -- I'm not sure I get this. But anyway -- we've deviated a little bit. All right. Are you willing to eat $50,000 in case you don't get...

PADILLA: I spent $50,000 on a worthwhile cause...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well...

PADILLA: ... To get the word out, and hopefully, get information from her mother that will bring her back safely.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Well, hopefully...

PADILLA: That's not eating $50,000.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Is the instructive word. All right, Leonard. Well, thank you. I hope you don't lose your $50,000. More than anything else...

PADILLA: I'm not losing $50,000!

VAN SUSTEREN: ... I want you to be right on this.

PADILLA: It's spent very worthwhile.

VAN SUSTEREN: So be it, and I hope that I am so wrong about this, you know, because that would only be good news. Thank you. And you got a call to pick up, Leonard. Thank you.

PADILLA: Very good.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,407742,00.html

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Casey's Home

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 21, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Tonight, Casey Anthony is free. The most infamous jailed mother in America walks out of the slammer after a bail bondsman and a bounty hunter post her $500,000 bond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Hey! Back off, you guys! Let her through! You'll get your chance. Back up. Get out of the way. Come on, give her a break, you guys!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VAN SUSTEREN: Casey's been locked up since July 16 and remains the only person of interest in her toddler, Caylee's, disappearance. Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla and his bail bondsman nephew posted Casey's $500,000 bond. Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla joins us live. Leonard, so what time did your day start this morning?


PADILLA: Herding cats at about 10:28.

Watch Greta's interview

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. Now, did you go over to the jail?

PADILLA: Yes. That was me hollering at the media there to get back.

VAN SUSTEREN: What -- when was the -- is that the first time that you met the woman for whom you posted bail? I guess she's not your client, but...

PADILLA: That's the first -- that's the first time I saw her in person, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did she say to you when she met you?

PADILLA: We just exchanged pleasantries. And I was too busy making sure that there was no traffic alongside of us or in back of us or ahead of us that would cause a problem because we've received a tremendous amount of threats.

VAN SUSTEREN: When you came out, I mean, it looks like it's -- it looks like chaos. And did the police and the sheriff's department not sort of help do any crowd control, and did the media rush you and...

PADILLA: No. They were supposed to -- they had told the attorney they were going to form a cordon on both sides, with half a dozen officers on each side walking down to the van. They told us to wait at the van and they would walk the attorney and their client down. They put her outside the door, and then she was on her own.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she say anything to you about the crowd as you got into the car?

PADILLA: It wasn't discussed at all. There was no mention of it, no. I mean, it was kind of like -- she was like a deer in the headlights, you know? I mean, it was, like, Wow, what happened?

VAN SUSTEREN: Where was her lawyer at this point?

PADILLA: He was with her. He's the one carrying the umbrella. And in the van, he was on one side and his partner was on the other side.

VAN SUSTEREN: What did she say in the van as you drove her home?

PADILLA: You know, nothing, really. She exchanged some pleasantries, said some thank yous. But like I said, she was in back, so I was focused on the windshield and the side window. I wasn't paying much attention to the discussions.

VAN SUSTEREN: What was your impression of her? Because this is the first time you're meeting her and you just posted a $500,000 bond for her. What was your impression?

PADILLA: You know, it's the same as I've been watching her -- scared, confused, and obviously, like, What's going on?

VAN SUSTEREN: Once you drive into the driveway and you go into the garage, the door comes down and you enter the house...

PADILLA: Correct.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Through the garage door, did her parents come out into the garage and meet her? Was there -- you know, were there tears? Was there joy? How do you describe it?

PADILLA: The dad -- the father immediately came to the side door where she was sitting on, opened the door. She got out. She says, I love you, Dad. They hugged. She then came around quickly to her mom. By that time, there was tears in her mother's eyes, in her eyes. They hugged. I said, You better get her inside. She might need a shower. And her mother says, Oh, my God, I think I will," and they were off into the house.

VAN SUSTEREN: And between the time you met her at the jail and the time that she walked into the home through the garage door, did she ever mention Caylee?

PADILLA: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: How long were you inside that...

PADILLA: I say that -- - let me -- let me -- let me say that with a caveat. I could hear discussions in the back, but I was not intent on listening to that as much as I was with the windows and the media that was trying to get alongside of us or in back of us in their vehicles.

VAN SUSTEREN: So it's fair to say that you never heard her mention Caylee.

PADILLA: No, I did not.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she -- how long were you with her, or how long were you at the house today?

PADILLA: On the way to the house, it was about 30 minutes, and then I probably spent another hour at the house.

VAN SUSTEREN: In that 90-minute period, did she ever mention Caylee to you?

PADILLA: Other than when she was in the van, she wasn't really in my presence in the house. Her and her mother was off in the bathroom showering and in the bedroom, and the attorney was over there talking to her. So it wasn't like I had her in my presence. I saw her fleetingly a couple times when she walked across the doorway, and that was about it.

VAN SUSTEREN: So -- but she did thank you for bailing her out.

PADILLA: Yes, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: What's the plan now? She stays at the house. She has some monitoring. Do you expect to see her again?

PADILLA: I'm not looking to see her until maybe Sunday.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why Sunday?

PADILLA: Well, I've got some work to do between now and then and some stuff that I have to take care of. So I have no reason to see her before Sunday. And they'll have a vigil, and I'll go to the vigil.

VAN SUSTEREN: When you have been on this show before, you have mentioned that you thought that once she got out, she would help the police, give them information or cooperate. Do you still believe that?

PADILLA: Yes, I do. Yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Did she mention -- in your presence at all did she say, Now I can talk to the police, or, I look forward to talking to the sheriff's office, anything like that to suggest...

PADILLA: No.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... She's interested in doing that now?

PADILLA: No. I didn't -- I did not have -- no, I was not aware of anything like that.

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything that surprised you today about her demeanor in the 90 minutes that you were in the area of -- you know, in the house, or on the way to the house?

PADILLA: No. She's like a young mother, without experience in these type of matters, and much the same as I thought of her when I first saw her on television, in -- you know, in the scenes in the jail and things of that nature. I have not changed my awareness of her or my thinking about her. I still think the child is out there. I still think she did something stupid as far as handing her to somebody, and now it's a matter of getting the child back.

Now, let me say this. There's a $225,000 reward out there. Let's get her back, drop her off at a drug store, go away for two days, call and get your $225,000 reward. We ourselves are not interested in that. This is about Caylee and getting her back. It hasn't got a thing to do...

VAN SUSTEREN: Is there anything that -- here's where you and I lock horns every night because I'm really having a hard time...

PADILLA: Good.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... Understanding that...

PADILLA: Tell me.

VAN SUSTEREN: ... All right -- is that I don't understand where you get this theory that she handed someone -- you're rather specific that she handed her off to someone. Where do you come up with that? Where is it anywhere grounded in any fact or any fact with a reasonable inference that you can draw from it? Where do you get that?

PADILLA: Here's where I get it, OK? There's a situation where these people that are fugitives or liars that I've dealt with over 33 years, they tell half-truths. They'll tell a story -- I handed her Zenaida Hernandez or Fernandez Gonzalez, OK? I don't think she did. I think it was somebody else. We just don't know who...

VAN SUSTEREN: Let me stop you right here...

PADILLA: ... The somebody else is.

VAN SUSTEREN: Why couldn't it be a half-truth -- let me say hypothetically that she did that. A half truth is that she didn't hand her to someone, but that the half-truth being is that she didn't hand her to someone but that she did something to her. That's a half-truth.

PADILLA: That's the law enforcement's job, and so far, they haven't come up with enough to arrest her on anything like that. So that's their job. I'm looking for her alive. They're looking for her dead. That's the difference.

VAN SUSTEREN: I think they'd love to find her alive, but I think what they're finding is that they're not...

PADILLA: Absolutely.

VAN SUSTEREN: They're not getting cooperation from her. And unfortunately, everyone would like to have the faith that you have, but it's really hard to have the faith that you have when you've got a mother who won't cooperate and you don't have any sort of corresponding facts. Even this Zenaida -- if Zenaida Gonzalez came forward and said, you know, She brought the child to me, we'd feel better about it, or it would seem more reasonable to have that inference drawn...

PADILLA: That's why -- I don't believe there's a Zenaida Gonzalez. I think she handed it off to one of her friends that she was in that little clique with. Could even be the...

VAN SUSTEREN: But why?

PADILLA: ... Poor child's father.

VAN SUSTEREN: But I mean...

PADILLA: Why?

VAN SUSTEREN: Look, Leonard, I'd love to have that thought. I would absolutely love to have that thought. There's nothing more than anything I'd love to see that little girl alive. And you know, I want to be so wrong on this. I just don't have anything that I can sort of, you know, sink my teeth into that makes me think, like, yes, in fact, she did that, when her behavior has been one to not cooperate with the police and to tell a web of lies, and to go out partying with her daughter missing. I mean, there's just nothing that's rather -- that gives me any comfort in sort of believing what you believe.

PADILLA: Now, when the DNA, 30 pieces of evidence that they're investigating, comes back and you're right, then I'm wrong. But until then, I'm going to pursue the fact that the child is alive. I really -- now, four days ago, you know, as some of these critics say, Oh, they're not going to get her out of jail. I mean, is the man going to buy us all a steak dinner tonight? She's out of jail.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, we'll get him to -- we'll make sure that we get that dinner, but -- and I -- and I must say...

PADILLA: Are we going to get that dinner?

VAN SUSTEREN: And I must say one thing, Leonard, is that under the law, she is presumed innocent. And should she ever be charged, then she should -- you know, she should have that constitutional right, presumption of innocence. It's just very difficult when her behavior is such to be able to -- at least for me -- to develop that presumption of innocence, although I'm certainly not sitting on a jury in which she is facing charges. But nonetheless...

PADILLA: We today are looking at her charged with the same charges that the gentleman in Massachusetts, when his wife came back and said, Where's the baby, or the 7-year-old, and he says, I don't know, they arrested him for child neglect, and he's got half a million dollar bond also.

VAN SUSTEREN: Well, Leonard, like I say every night, that this is a case where I so want to be wrong, but I'm having a hard time. That's why I grill you for the basis of your view because I'd like to be able to have -- I'd like to be able to think like you do on this, but you and I just don't -- you know, I can't get there.

PADILLA: And believe me, I understand. All I'm saying is the law enforcement has not charged her with any more than what she's charged right now, and it's been better than 30 days since they collected most of that evidence.

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So what's the plan, is that she's going to stay in this house for the next -- or she basically -- or she goes to the court on the neglect and the lying allegations, right?

PADILLA: Obviously, right now, there's a trial set in November. And unless law enforcement does something different, that's -- you know, that's where she's at. She's got a 10-page booklet that she has to follow regulations. And we're providing security. We increased it because of the threats. I mean, it's just crazy. It's just crazy and insane.

VAN SUSTEREN: Are the threats to you or to her?

PADILLA: Threats to us, threats to her and threats to the family.

VAN SUSTEREN: Like, can you be specific? Like -- you know, like what kind of threats?

PADILLA: Well, to us, it's because, you know, If you're going to do this, we're going to make sure you pay for this in the ultimate way. To her, it's, We're going to kill the bitch as soon as she gets home. And to the family...

VAN SUSTEREN: Are these -- are...

PADILLA: ... We're going to burn the house down.

VAN SUSTEREN: How are the threats coming in? Are they coming in by e-mail, by telephone?

PADILLA: Some come e-mail -- some come e-mail, some come on the phone, some come on -- you know, just all over the place. All over the place.

VAN SUSTEREN: Has that been turned over to law enforcement?

PADILLA: And they come in -- and they come in from all over. Yes, I've contacted the FBI regarding the threats, yes.

VAN SUSTEREN: Leonard, thank you, and I hope you'll come back as the case develops. Thank you, Leonard.

PADILLA: You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank you very much.

VAN SUSTEREN: "On the Record" producer Justin Wells spent a large part of his day at the home of Casey's parents, and not surprisingly, Justin was not alone.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUSTIN WELLS, FOX PRODUCER: We're outside the Anthony home right now, and the media is completely camped out. So inside, you've got her brother, you've got her parents, you've got the bounty-hunting team. This truck just pulled up late this afternoon. This truck is part of the bounty hunting team. We saw Rob Dick, who's heading of security. It's a pretty big trailer here, and their team is basically monitoring what's going on inside of the house, talking to the female that's inside handling security.

Up here, you can see that one of the cars is in the driveway. Usually, they have their two cars in the driveway. That's because they've left one spot open so people can get in and out of the house rather quickly. And back here, the media -- you see the trucks just strewn all along, all the way down. You see a satellite truck. That's one of the networks. The local media is here. They're doing live shots here.

Over here is our FOX News crew and the FOX News tent. We lost one tent today. It blew right over because Fay is still hitting us, band after band after band. Now we've had about six, seven, at one point, twelve people were holding down the tent while they were preparing to do a live shot at 6:00 PM. Now they're getting ready for "The Fox Report" at 7:00 o'clock. And still, the winds just keep coming in band by band by band.

Media is all around. That's the FOX News sat truck. The other media organizations just pulled out just a few minutes ago because the weather was just too bad, but these trucks and cars all up and down the street are the photographers. They're all sticking around, just in case something happens. But it's very difficult to go live right now in these conditions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)


 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,408604,00.html

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Disturbing New Info About Missing Caylee's Mom 'On the Record'
Monday, August 25, 2008

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record ," August 22, 2008. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Casey Anthony enjoys her first day as a free woman. The once jailed walked out of jail yesterday.

But she is not completely free. She is being monitored, including wearing an ankle bracelet to track her movement.

She may not be in the slammer tonight, but the now released mother is still the only person of interest in her daughter Caylee's disappearance.

Earlier a spokesperson from the Orange County Sheriff's office in Orlando went "On the Record" with producer Justin Wells.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUSTIN WELLS, PRODUCER, "ON THE RECORD": Captain, Casey is out now. What does that mean for you? Does it change how you guys operate in any way?

CAPT. ANGELO NIEVES, ORANGE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: Not necessarily. Our continued focus has been on getting as much information as possible regarding the whereabouts of Caylee. That is what is most important to us, and we continue to stay focused in that direction.

WELLS: Everyone is talking about the evidence that was collected, the DNA evidence in the car. Most people say that with the tests that you guys have to send those out to do, that that evidence would typically be back by now.

Is it back, and are detectives looking at it and just at this point not releasing that?

NIEVES: The information -- again, the testing processes, whatever the testing is right now, what level they are at, that is information that is privileged. That is information that the detectives will hold close the vest.

And then they will make a determination on when it is proper to release that information, whether it be through a court proceeding, or any other information that needs to be released in furtherance of this case.

WELLS: The bounty hunters that have come in and made a big splash. It has actually taken some of the eyes off of what you are doing, because everyone has been focused on that. What has your communication been with that bounty hunting team that is now watching over Casey?

NIEVES: Again, that is something that is not something that we are involved in. Part of the monitoring phase is something that is done by the community corrections division.

So they are part of that. We do not have any involvement in monitoring Casey Anthony at this point. That is the corrections division, and they also have the information regarding her whereabouts, her schedules, and so forth.

WELLS: Do you provide any kind of protection whatsoever, or is that not your responsibility?

NIEVES: Again, when she is bonded out, that is a right that she has. And, again, that is part of the monitoring responsibilities of the corrections department.

WELLS: If they had an issue at the house, as far as they say people are sending pizzas there and they are afraid they are poisoned, they are saying all kinds of things-if they contacted you guys, it would just be like any other citizen contacting you to file a police report, correct?

NIEVES: That is correct.

WELLS: So there is no special attention being paid to that home right now by your department?

NIEVES: Again, we have a situation in which the entire country, basically, is looking for Caylee. So there is some interest regarding the residents and so forth.

But our agency, law enforcement, and deputies that respond there for anything will do so and conduct themselves professionally within the law.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: "On the Record" has obtained disturbing information about Casey Anthony you will not hear anywhere else. An inside source tells us that apparently not all has been rosy in the Anthony household for some time.

According to our inside source, Casey took money without permission from her disabled grandfathers' banking account, money that was supposed to pay for the nursing home where receives care and lives.

When confronted, Casey told her grandmother that she had borrowed the money for an expense related to her job at Universal and that Universal would reimburse the money.

However, there is a problem. The statement about a job at Universal proved to be a lie. According to our source, Casey was so irresponsible with running up debts that her mother Cindy had to go into her own 401K to bail out her daughter financially.

That's not all. Our source says Casey also lied about her pregnancy with Caylee. Casey denied to relatives she was pregnant for the first seven months of her pregnancy despite obvious physical signs, and that her mother Cindy backed her up and told family she believed her daughter's denials about being pregnant.

The baby was born two months later.

Then there is the issue of Caylee's father. Our inside source says that some family members simply do not believe Casey's story that Caylee's father died in a car accident. Our source says that some family members have are and have been perplexed at Cindy, her mother's, willingness to believe everything her daughter Casey says.

So what did Casey Anthony do today with her first 24 hours of freedom in 37 days? Joining us live are bounty hunters Leonard Padilla and bail bondsman Tony Padilla. Leonard and Tony posted Casey's $500,000 bond. Welcome both of you, and, Tony, let me go first to you. How did she spend her day? Do you know time she got up and what she did?

TONY PADILLA, BAIL BONDSMAN: Greta, I have not heard a word about what she did today. I know that she visited with her attorney Jose Baez. And I did not see her at all today. Other than that, that is about all I know.

VAN SUSTEREN: Tony, did you have dinner with her last night?

TONY PADILLA: I was at the Anthony house last night. And I did have a bite to eat and shared some words with not only her but the family. She filled out some paperwork and I was out of there.

Watch Greta's interview

VAN SUSTEREN: What was her demeanor?

TONY PADILLA: Very somber, excited. It was a various range of emotions from Casey yesterday.

VAN SUSTEREN: Leonard, do you have any idea how she spent her day today other than going to see her lawyer?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: No. I just heard that she went to see her lawyer. I did not see her or have any contact at all. Other than that--which would be normal for somebody to get out of jail and go see their attorney right away. But other than that, no.

VAN SUSTEREN: Do you know, Leonard, if there was any discussion or effort to reach out to investigators to find the child today, whether it was Casey through her lawyer, through her parents, directly?

LEONARD PADILLA: I don't have any knowledge of anything like that, nor did I have a conversation with anybody about that.

VAN SUSTEREN: So Tony, what's the plan? Are you going to stay there until next court appearance? What's the story.

TONY PADILLA: No, Greta. I have been trying to leave, but because of the storm I am a little bit scared to fly. So I hope the weather is better tomorrow and hopefully get back home.

VAN SUSTEREN: I think we all understand that.

Tony, when you spend time with her and a family yesterday, did she mention her missing daughter Caylee to you?

TONY PADILLA: Yes she did. We talked a couple minutes about that. And I explained to her that this is the most important thing is Caylee. It is not about Leonard's ego nor my ego nor her ego nor her being out of jail. It is all about a girl.

And I think that is one of the parts of this whole thing that everyone is overlooking, is that we are not here for the publicity or the hype or any of this stuff. We are here to find a girl.

And Leonard and I talked last week, and that was probably the biggest part of our conversation was let's not do this for anybody but the girl.

VAN SUSTEREN: And when you had that conversation with her, did Casey say, "Yes, I get it, it is about my daughter Caylee, and-" let me be a little sarcastic for a second and say "where is the phone so I can call the investigators and tell them what I know?"

TONY PADILLA: I think she is still a little bit scared about being on the outside, whom she can trust, whom she can talk to. The family is there, but I think she is just getting over the fact that she has been in jail for 35 days.

It was not about getting the investigators, but she did look at me, and tears came to her eyes, and she said that "I understood." So it is hard for me to get a read on her. I didn't spend a whole lot of time with her, but, hopefully, she gets it. We are begging that she gets it, for Caylee's sake.

VAN SUSTEREN: Leonard and Tony, thank you. And, Tony, good luck with that flight. I know how you feel.

TONY PADILLA: Thanks, Greta, I appreciate it.

VAN SUSTEREN: Thank you both.

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