Transcripts August ,September 1- 30, 08

[Blonde]

New Developments in Search for Caylee Anthony

Aired August 25, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Shocking, and I mean shocking new developments in the case of that beautiful three- year-old Florida girl named Caylee, last seen with her mother, Casey.
Little Caylee has been missing, as you probably know, for 10 long weeks. Bombshells tonight. More than 400 pages of key documents just released minutes ago reveal that while pregnant the missing girl`s mother, Casey Anthony allegedly wanted to give little Caylee up for adoption. Friends are also claiming that Casey has a history of doing drugs and you will not believe what Casey`s own mother allegedly said.

These hundreds of pages of documents, including arrest reports and witness interviews shed disturbing new light on what authorities are finding out during their investigation.

After 37 days in isolation, mom Casey Anthony is now out of jail. A California bounty hunter and bail bondsmen put up $50,000, predicting she`s more likely to talk about out of jail. Meanwhile, just hours ago, Casey Anthony leaves home confinement to meet with jail officials and undergo alcohol and, yes, drug testing. But tonight, the big question remains, where oh, where is Caylee Anthony?

Just released, 400 pages of eye-popping documents reveals stunning new information in the search for three-year-old Caylee Anthony. Not only did mom Casey Anthony give police the runaround, claiming she did not know what happened to Caylee, but now we learn when Casey Anthony found out she was pregnant, she wanted to give up her little girl for adoption.

A friend of Casey`s who was interviewed exclusively by the police told them that Casey often talked about what life would be like without Caylee. She said things like, she missed partying. This friend also revealed that when Casey was pregnant with Caylee, when she was only 19 years old, she wanted to put the child up for adoption, but her mother, Cindy Anthony, would not allow her to do that. This friend said Casey did drugs. He mentioned that she smoked pot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was there ever talk of Casey talking to you about giving up Caylee for adoption?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: The documents also reveal before investigators searched the Anthony`s backyard grandmother Cindy checked the shed and the grandfather checked the playhouse to check for any evidence of foul play.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said to me, Jose, I`m innocent. I`m going to walk out of this place with my head high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful three-year-old Florida girl named Caylee. The question, did mom Casey Anthony want to give up her little girl for adoption?

Shocking documents over 400 pages long reveal new details about the investigation. And it`s a bombshell. While pregnant with little Caylee, mom Casey Anthony told a friend she wanted to give her unborn child up for adoption. Casey Anthony also said she would have been better of and able to party more if she didn`t have a daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the day that little Caylee went missing or when Casey said she left Caylee with a baby-sitter, she gave very detailed information to the authorities about that day. But when they said, hey, can you give us some phone numbers, something to corroborate what you`re saying, she had trouble doing that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, DAUGHTER IS MISSING: You know I wouldn`t let anything happen to our daughter. If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy and George Anthony said they did some searching of their own, looking in the shed, picking up Caylee`s playhouse there in the back yard and it sort of indicates that maybe they suspect foul play.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she passed off the baby to somebody and the thing has compounded on her. It has grown out of proportion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter, when she came out of the bail, she kept her head up high in spite of everything because there`s nothing -- there`s nothing to hide. That little girl is out there.

C. ANTHONY: I just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now, is getting Caylee back. And you know what, that`s all I care about right now?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. Nothing to hide! Breaking news with stunning new developments that shed a whole new light on Casey Anthony, the mother of the missing little girl. Let`s go straight out to Mark Williams, news director at WNDB News Talk 1150.

Mark, you have been tracking this case from the start. What is the very latest with these 400 -- I`ve got them right here -- 400 pages of documents and how they relate to this stunning claim that Casey wanted to put her child up for adoption?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWS TALK 1150: Well, those 400 pages came from interviews conducted by the local sheriff`s office of friends, they released her MySpace page. Hell, they even released her arrest record in these 400 pages. But the shocking thing is fact that she wanted to give up Caylee for adoption. She went to a high school friend, as a matter of fact, the high school friend had a little money on the side so she said, I`ll adopt Caylee. I can`t have any kids, but I`ll take care of Caylee for the rest of her life. Obviously, that never did happen. She had Caylee and in essence she took her home to George and Cindy Anthony. Also, another shocking development. There`s a friend by the name of Ryan .

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We don`t need to use last names at this point.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ryan.

WILLIAMS: Ryan that says he`s known Casey since they were six years old. The deal was was he worked at the sports authority here in Orlando, in the Orlando area, Casey claimed that she worked there as well. And one day he got a call, or at least talked to Cindy Anthony, Casey`s mother, who said, stay away from her. She`s a psychopath. And for drug usage, pot. That`s about the biggest thing they`ve been able to find on Casey Anthony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mark Williams, I have to ask you and as I do, I want to show again. Take a look at this, 400 pages. Our staff has been going through this, reading -- speed reading trying to get ready for this show because they came in late this afternoon, one shocker after another. And Mark, the biggest shocker to me was what Cindy allegedly told a very good friend, the quote/unquote best friend of her daughter Casey, she`s a sociopath, Cindy said, of her daughter, Casey, and you should stay away from her?

WILLIAMS: That`s pretty much it. It`s all right there, contained in that 400-page report. I mean, I know of no other parent who would ever say that about their child. But apparently Cindy Anthony said that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Unbelievable. I think we need to bring in the shrink right off the bat. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, you are hearing it now, Janet, that according to these documents, Casey allegedly -- and let`s face it, these are just documents. We don`t know the truth. But according to these papers, a friend told cops Casey wanted to give her child up for adoption when she was still pregnant. How does that shed new light and give a new cast to this entire case of this missing child?

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, she was 19. She was unmarried, at that time, unclear if she worked. So it`s not unlikely that she would be ambivalent about her pregnancy, because that happens. So it may indicate her state of functioning, but doesn`t necessarily indicate her predictability for criminal behavior. I think it`s careful not to associate that feeling with that behavior.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector, when you look at this and you hear Cindy saying that he have nothing to hide and her daughter held her head high, but then you also, here in these documents that she`s describing her daughter allegedly as a sociopath, that her daughter is doing drugs, that her daughter expressed regret for having the child because now she can`t go out. The fact that we have her on videotape dirty dancing after the child went missing, what does this paint as a picture and can authorities use it to file more serious charges?

RON SHINDEL, NYPD: Well, it certainly has a cause for more investigation. We now know that she engages in some aberrant behavior that could cause her to do other things. That she`s not just a mother with a missing child at this point. The drugs, the statements, the opinions from the grandmother, if they`re proven correct, all lead to us a different light, that we need to look at her much more closely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We`re going to go to the phone lines momentarily. They are all lit up. Let`s bring in the attorneys, first of all, Mickey Sherman and Christopher Amolsch, I want to get your reaction to another chilling detail. According to an ex-fiance, he told authorities that Casey had deleted many photographs of her and her daughter on the Internet, which kind of dovetails with some of the other information coming in. Mickey, what`s your reaction to all of these stunning developments?

MICKEY SHERMAN, ATTORNEY: Usually, ex-fiances don`t say the nicest things about you. And don`t forget, they have that big, big thick document that you have. And you know what`s not there? Proof that she committed a crime such as murder or kidnapping or anything like that. They`ve got all that and it`s all one sided, don`t forget. They don`t have both sides of the story there. They have all the bad things, all the Catty or people who are her enemies say about her and all you can do is get her for dirty dancing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know about that. Chris Amolsch. She apparently also told one of her close friends that she hates her dad and that there was arguing in the house. So if you take all these little pieces and put them together, don`t you have something that is quite dysfunctional and it`s not just a girl leaving home and accidentally dropping her daughter off with a baby-sitter who kidnaps her?

CHRIS AMOLSCH, ATTORNEY: It sounds to me like you have a typical 19- year-old daughter having a tough time with her parents. She`s a 19-year- old, she`s having a child out of wedlock, not getting along with her parents and occasionally smoking pot. That sounds like half of the teenage population .

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chris, but they don`t have kids who are missing? This woman has a child who has been missing for 10 weeks.

AMOLSCH: I agree. But when you put all that together, and the fact that she understood she had options that relates to adoption, and that she was seen partying, if that`s what you want to call it, after her gone has gone missing indicates to me that she`s not worried about her daughter`s safety. She`s not worried about the fact that her daughter may be missing or has come to harm. I think she knows where her daughter is and her daughter is fine. That`s what it says to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s exactly what our bail bondsmen, Leonard Padilla has to say. We`re going to get to his story in just second.

But again, let`s go to the callers, there are so many of them. Tony in Florida, your question, sir?

CALLER: Yes, how are you?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m fine.

CALLER: I`ve been following this since day one, and my question is, we live not far from this area and my question is that this is a very secluded area where these cell phone pings were, there were approximately 32 of them in this area. This area is very difficult to get to. I know the area off the airport and it`s swampy and very heavily wooded and we haven`t heard anymore about this. Is this going to be in some of these documents, do you think, and would you or your panel happen to know anymore about this? We`re right here not far from there and we haven`t heard much more about this. It seems like it`s been kept under cover.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go back to Mark Williams, the news director that has been covering this for WNDB Radio. We`ve heard about these pings, all about the cell phones, but somehow the details still elude us, Mark, as to where she was at critical times when there were critical phone calls allegedly made to her by various parties.

WILLIAMS: What the Sheriff`s Department`s investigators are doing is that they`ve obviously hired some high-tech people to take a look at those cell phone bills and see where she was when she used that cell phone. They`re keeping this close to the vest due to the fact that they need to use this during their investigation, to build a case against her and they`re not going to release that to anybody. They`re just going to keep it within themselves.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, you`re the one that helped bail Casey Anthony out of jail. I`m sure that these documents are quite shocking to you as well. I mean, you had a theory that Casey had left the child with good friends because she really was sort of getting tired of her parent`s interference with her child rearing and she had split and left the child with good friends and that that`s why she`s unconcerned, because the child is OK. Now that you`ve heard all this, do you still believe that?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Oh, yeah, absolutely. It follows in with what I came from California with, and that was that she`s unconcerned, not because she`s a wacko, but because she knows exactly where her child is, that the people she gave her child to or left her child with are going to take care of her and she doesn`t have to be concerned about some problem befalling her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s funny, because I`m looking at this very same information and not reaching that conclusion. When her mom says she`s a sociopath, allegedly, according to these documents, that tells me that maybe she doesn`t care and is acting unconcerned, Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, because she just doesn`t care or she knows something untoward as happened to the child.

TAYLOR: Unfortunately, the information really points to the fact that the only thing he really cares about is herself which may fall into that sociopath or anti-social, narcissistic personality disorder that her mom is referring to. And therefore all the lies, everything she`ll do to cover herself to avoid blame and responsibility certainly fits into a personality disorder that`s capable of doing something and then hiding the truth.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector, you can`t say the cops weren`t doing their homework, because everybody was saying they`re so quiet. Well, look at this. Do you know what it takes to compile this much evidence and do this much investigation? Obviously the cops, the investigators are doing their job. What do you think this points to? At this point she`s only charged with child neglect and lying to investigators. Could this lead to more serious charges, in your opinion?

SHINDEL: Jane, I think so. I think the authorities here are doing a thorough investigation. They`re not rushing into any judgments. They`re compiling their paperwork, compiling their documentations, doing their interviews and they`re handling this as professionals. They don`t want to paint themselves into a corner at any one point, and that`s why they`re not releasing information that we could follow up on guesses and hunches that are out there in the media.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tony Padilla, you are the nephew of Leonard, you`re also a bail bondsmen, you helped bail Casey Anthony out of jail. As you hear all the shocking details that Casey wanted to give this child up for adoption back when she was still pregnant, what runs through your mind about what is going on really with this missing child?

TONY PADILLA, BAIL BONDSMAN: I`m concerned that everybody`s starting to lose focus here. The focus should be strictly with finding Caylee. I`m really concerned that everybody`s trying to make out Casey to be somebody that maybe she is like that, I have no idea. I haven`t spent much time with her. But the true focus here has to be on Caylee. And I think we`re all losing touch with the reality that we have to do something to find her, regardless of what Casey`s past is like and regardless of whether she`s a psychopath or sociopath or anything. And I want to clear this record that`s been bothering me for a while. Leonard is the bounty hunter, I am the bail bondsmen. Leonard is not a bail bondsman, OK.

I just wanted to get that off my chest. Thank you very much.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you`re an uncle and nephew team that has insinuated yourself in this case very effectively and we`re going to talk about what`s in it for you when we come back in a moment. But Mickey Sherman, your reaction to Tony`s comment that we`re getting away from the real issue, where is Caylee? Obviously they`re connected. If Casey wanted to give the child up for adoption, doesn`t that shed light on her possible motives and her possible behavior after this child mysteriously goes missing. Given that, she has told a pack of lies to investigators and that`s been pretty much documented.

SHERMAN: You can`t find her guilty of lying. That`s not exactly the most serious charge in the world. And isn`t that a common expression for young people, they want to give up their children for adoption, whether it`s postpartum depression or whatever. But it still doesn`t add up.

All that pile of material still doesn`t make the case for murder, manslaughter or anything else that`s more serious than dirty dancing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some had anonymously given us information, the vast majority think that the child is alive, that she is with friends of Casey.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s not concerned because she`s probably left the baby with that person before.

C. ANTHONY: I can`t sit here and be crying every two seconds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she goes around acting unconcerned because she`s not.

C. ANTHONY: I have to stay composed to talk to detectives.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love her and I support her and that I understand and that every day that goes by, I know exactly how hard it is that she`s giving up her life to protect her child.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. Page after page of stunning new information on Casey Anthony, the mother of missing Caylee. Friends interviewed by cops claim Casey wanted to put her little girl up for adoption back when she was still pregnant with her. Others claim Casey was smoking pot and drinking, which would not be a shock given the video we`ve shown you of her dirty dancing for lack of a better phrase, after the child went missing.

I know Drew Petrimoulx, reporter for WDBO Radio has been studying these documents. What`s the biggest shocker for you? Or one that we may have missed as we go through these as it headed to air.

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO RADIO, COVERING STORY: The biggest shocker for me is something you`ve kind of hit on already. One of her friends, Ryan, who was listed in her phone as best friend. Someone, again, who has known her since he was about five or six years old and he says this is something that Casey said a lot of the times. You know, she mentioned she wished she hadn`t had Caylee because she`s young and not able to do the types of thing she likes to do, like go out. That`s a pretty striking comment, when in the days after Caylee went missing, we see pictures of her partying and doing the things she wants to do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mickey Sherman and Christopher Amolsch, attorneys. It`s clear the attorney for Casey Anthony wanted to keep these documents from coming out. She actually filed a motion to get it stopped and he lost and they were released today because of a Freedom of Information Act. So obviously it`s damaging to their client.

SHERMAN: And don`t forget, it`s a one-sided document, like an arrest warrant, that`s not both sides. It only has one side, it`s all damaging, it`s all prejudicial and gives great fire for all of us to say, wow, what a scumbag she must be because she said this and she said that. So it`s not a weasel move on the attorney`s part, it`s the appropriate move because you don`t want to poison the perspective jury pool out there any more than it`s already been done.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead, Christopher.

AMOLSCH: I`m not necessarily worried about poisoning the jury pool. I mean, I think what Mickey said is pretty important on the fact that we`re now talking about what every 19-year-old who`s ever been pregnant probably says at one time in her life, maybe I shouldn`t have had a kid. How unusual is that? And now we`re talking about it as it relates to murder. We`re just stretching here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to keep on doing this until she`s home. I want her home tomorrow. I want her home tonight.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family spokesperson says she is now opening up to her parents, George and Cindy Anthony since she is not behind bars. He says she is speaking very freely, something she couldn`t do when she was in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Leonard Padilla had something a little different to say. He said that Casey is acting unconcerned, as one would if she knew that her daughter was with people that she knew.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. Once again, hundreds and hundreds of pages of shocking new developments, new evidence coming in in the Caylee Anthony missing persons case. Let`s go to the phones. Debra in Tennessee. Your question, ma`am?

CALLER: Yes. I have noticed in the past that someone that has this much not notoriety in the news media that this girl has had, there have been folks coming out of the woodwork to talk about them. Other than to not, in the things that you`ve read in this document, we`ve not seen or heard anything from anybody, whether it be good or bad .

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s really an interesting point, ma`am.

CALLER: Yeah. I wonder if anyone feels that`s strange. It just feels really strange to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Drew Petrimoulx, reporter WBDO radio, this lady`s making a good point. Where were all these people? Why weren`t they talking to the media about these claims?

PETRIMOULX: I can`t speak to why they weren`t talking to the media, but when you read through these transcripts, it`s obvious these people did talk. And another striking thing I`d like to hit on is some of the interviews that I`ve been reading through between the detectives and Casey, where they`re actually grilling her really hard. Saying, look, it`s one of two things. One of two things. You either killed this little girl or something bad happened to her and you`re hiding it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. How long has she been missing for?

CINDY ANTHONY: I have not seen her since the seventh of June.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Why are you calling now? Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I have been looking for her and has gone through other resources to try to find her, which was stupid.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: That girl was the last person to have her?

CASEY ANTHONY: She was the last person to have her. That was the last time I saw Caylee.

L. PADILLA: I believe that she made a mistake. I believe that her daughter was handed off to somebody. I believe that the daughter is alive.

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Do you think Caylee is OK right now?

CASEY ANTHONY: My gut feeling -- in my gut she`s still OK and it feels like she`s still close to home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Breaking news, in case you`re just joining us, the shocking developments come page after page as authorities released 400-plus pages of documents in the case of missing Caylee Anthony. One big shocker. A friend claims Casey`s mom Cindy told her -- told him her daughter is a sociopath and please don`t have any contact with her.

So how does all this impact the case?

I want to go to Kathy Reichs, who`s a forensic anthropologist and author of "Devil Bones."

You`ve been hearing all of this, Kathy, but it has to be put in perspective with the evidence that`s coming in, the fact that a cadaver dog hit on a smell in Casey`s abandoned car. The fact that cadaver dogs also hit on an area in the back of the Anthony home and a mystery stain found in the car along with hairs.

Put it all together for us?

KATHY REICHS, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "DEVIL BONES": Well, I`ve seen cadaver dogs that are good and I`ve seen cadaver dogs that are not so good. As far as a mystery stain in the back of the car, I`m sure almost all of us have a mystery stain in the back of our car. I probably have one in the trunk of my car.

What`s frustrating is we don`t really know what forensic evidence exists, if any. And we don`t know what the process of analysis of that evidence is. I don`t find that surprising. It can take a long time. Not necessarily to do the analysis, but to wait your turn in line to have the analysis done.

So we don`t know if they`re checking it to see, is it in fact bodily fluids or blood? That`s pretty quick. If it is, is it human blood? That`s pretty quick. If then they`re going on from that and testing it for DNA that can take a bit longer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And we have to also add in -- Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector -- some of the circumstantial evidence. The fact that a neighbor says that Casey borrowed a shovel.

Now, Cindy, her mom, says hey, it was to knock down bamboo sticks, totally innocent, but the family admits -- the family admits -- Casey stole gas cans from her dad, $50, approximately, worth of gas.

You know there`s one thing after another, Ron, and no thing individually is implicating, but when you put it all together, is a picture emerging? And what can authorities to do with that?

SHINDEL: Jane, you`re exactly correct. There is so much circumstantial evidence here of so many varying types and it leads in so many different directions that you just have to keep digging here. Because eventually it`s going to lead to a conclusion and eventually it may lead to finding the little girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go back to Leonard Padilla, who bailed Casey Anthony out of jail with the help of his amazing nephew, Tony.

Leonard, let`s talk about what I like to call the list of lies. On June 9th she claims she left the baby with this Zenaida Gonzalez.

L. PADILLA: No.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: There`s been a lot of Zenaida Gonzalez. The police can`t.

L. PADILLA: June 16th.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, no, no. She originally said June 9th.

L. PADILLA: OK. Originally. Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then what happens was that detectives confronted Casey`s mom with a videotape that was taken on June 15th, Father`s Day, where Cindy actually videotaped little Caylee so.

L. PADILLA: But was that Cindy`s statement? OK. Not defending anybody.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK.

L. PADILLA: But was that the statement of Cindy on June 9th, and then she retracted it? And said.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, that was the statement of Casey.

L. PADILLA: OK. All right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey said that.

L. PADILLA: OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, in other words, what`s happening is, we have a list of lies, and, I mean, it goes on and on. She said she left Caylee in an apartment. That apartment turned out to be vacant for months. She`s off on the dates as we just discussed.

Her dad, George, saw the baby June 16th. She told her parent she was going on a business trip. That was nonsense. She told her parents and others she worked at Universal. That was total nonsense.

She said that Zenaida Gonzalez, the alleged baby-sitter that nobody can find, had a roommate that worked at TGI Fridays. That was disputed by the restaurant. Cops alleged that Casey faked e-mails to make it look like she worked at Universal.

She told her boyfriend and friends that the baby was always with the nanny. And, of course, the big one, failure to report the lost child to law enforcement.

So when you hear all of this, your conclusion, Leonard -- I just want to see if I`m accurate -- is that she left the child with friends?

L. PADILLA: I think she left her or gave her to friends knowing that they would take care of her. And the reason for all the lies and everything else that she got caught up in is because she lies all the time about everything.

And doesn`t -- this is not new that she`s lying about this. She lies about everything and she definitely didn`t want a confrontation with her father or her mother about the baby. She definitely didn`t want that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, apparently, according to these documents, some friends are claiming that they had confrontations.

L. PADILLA: Oh yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to the phones. Kelly, Indiana, your question.

KELLY, INDIANA RESIDENT: Yes, I have a couple points to make. I wanted to know -- I know that there was a lot of time in between. I think she was trying to buy time by not reporting it. I know that they seized some of the computers in the family home.

Have they went to any of the local places in the area like the library? You can access information from the Internet at any time. Is it possible that she was shopping for parents for her daughter?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go to Mark Williams, news director, WNDB.

Mark?

WILLIAMS: Well, I know they confiscated all those computers from the Anthony home. No word if she went to any of the local libraries around town, because there are several in her neighborhood, which, of course, you have free Internet access.

Don`t know. And they haven`t talked about that, yet, if they`ve looked at other computers outside the Anthony family home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mickey Sherman and Christopher Amolsch, the defense attorneys here, what do you make of the fact that there was a vigil for her missing daughter right outside her home, the family home where Casey is staying, yesterday, Sunday, and Casey did not make it out to the driveway for the vigil.

SHERMAN: Remember, Scott Peterson went to his ex-wife`s vigil as well. It`s a no-win. Why would she want to show up there? It`s going to be a media opportunity.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: To support her daughter?

SHERMAN: To -- well, obviously, she can be supportive of her daughter by letting the people know where she really is or what happened, but just to do a photo op for the 47 satellite trucks out there and to do a perp walk, nothing is going to -- nothing good is going to come to her.

It would have been great for us. But not for her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well.

AMOLSCH: It sounds to me like she`s finally listening to the advice of her lawyer, which must be, stop showing up in public places and talking about this case, because people are looking for everything you say, they`re looking for inconsistencies and feeding it back to you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, speaking.

AMOLSCH: Sounds like she`s finally listening.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Speaking of inconsistencies, Leonard Padilla, her family said the reason she didn`t go out to the vigil was for security concerns, and yet those security concerns have not stopped her from getting in a vehicle and going to visit her lawyer and going to her case manager today.

So if you`re going to cite security concerns, stay home 100 percent, and have the lawyer come to you. Don`t say, well, I can`t go to the vigil for my daughter outside my house.

L. PADILLA: Believe me, I suggested that she not go anywhere today when she has that appointment with her lawyer. The case manager -- I don`t think she can bring to her house.

But I will tell you this, that prior to that vigil, there was a group of hard rock musicians out there with music loud enough to be heard down in Miami and they were just kicking up a fuss and all that.

And they said they`d be back for the vigil and, honestly, there was a sergeant from the local sheriff`s office came out there and we told him, is there any way you can have some additional security out here, because if those guys come back, it`s going to draw George and some people off that vigil and there`s going to be hell to pay and there`s no sense in that.

And I`m glad, honestly, that they kept her inside house.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Leonard, you said that you felt that she gave the child to friends because she was chaffing under the restrictions of her family and implied that she might have had a fight with her dad, George.

You`re there. Did George say, yes, I had a fight with my daughter and she was upset?

L. PADILLA: I have not -- I have not discussed that with George. I`m definitely not going to add to his problems right now. That`s my thinking. I`ve talked to some people that have said that, you know, she was -- in one instance, she was talking about that the parents were going to give her the house and this young lady was going to move in with her and all that.

All lies. There`s all sorts of stories out there that -- I mean, her friends -- she lied to them constantly. Not just about this particular incident, but about everything in her life. It was a constant lie.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and it makes it so difficult. We saw that in the Natalee Holloway case with Joran Van Der Sloot, so lied about everything and the question was, was he lying just about the terrible incident of Natalee Holloway going missing, or was he just lying because he`s a pathological liar and he lies about everything?

And it makes the case more complicated. I agree with you there.

Now, as we go to break tonight, we have a happy 17th birthday to a Las Vegas friend of the show, Miyun Clemens. Clemens bravely fighting sickle cell at a local children`s hospital.

Happy birthday, Miyun. Get well real soon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

L. PADILLA: What the media determines as a woman that`s callus and doesn`t care, I believe, is a woman that knows her daughter is with people that she`s been with before. In other words, she`s not concerned about her safety.

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half truths, but she is not a murderer.

HOLLY GAGNE, FMR. BABYSITTER TO CAYLEE: I`m right along with the rest of America going, I don`t understand. I`m confused. I just keep saying, what I know in my heart is that I can`t believe that she would hurt her child.

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m sick and tired of hearing, you know, she`s already tried and convicted.

L. PADILLA: I believe she was in love with somebody, she got herself head over heels, she got herself mislead, misplaced. And the next thing, it was totally out of control, then she started lying to law enforcement, then she got arrested.

Look at it. It snowballed out of control.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

A lot of theories and stunning breaking news in the case of missing Caylee Anthony. In case you`re just joining us, hundreds of pages of documents just came in paint a picture of, among other things, alleged drug use by the missing girl`s mom.

But that`s not even the most shocking part. The biggest stunner, a friend tells investigators Casey wanted to give up her child for adoption back when she was still pregnant with little Caylee.

Phone lines lit up. Tanya in Louisiana, what is your question, ma`am?

TANYA, LOUISIANA RESIDENT: Yes, what about the father and is the father or his family helping with the search for Caylee?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that`s a very good question. And actually these documents -- Drew Petrimoulx, reporter for WDBO Radio, do shed some light on this whole issue of who is the father and does anybody know?

PETRIMOULX: Well, they still -- the documents shed some light on it, but also are confusing, because some of the friends say that they have met the father, they didn`t know his name, but they met him at another time.

Some of the other people that were interviewed say that they -- that he had died in a car accident earlier in Caylee`s life. So while they do talk about the father of Caylee, they also are conflicting stories as to who he actually was.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And while we have you, I understand that you have some thoughts on the drug references in all these documents.

PETRIMOULX: Right, well, you`ve -- we`ve been saying and what I`ve heard you`ve been saying is that, you know, she said that -- there were reports that she was using drugs, but only pot and alcohol.

When the investigator was actually interviewing her friend, Ryan, who was listed as her best friend, he specifically asked if she was doing ecstasy or popping pills, it he says that it was a very good possibility that she was -- doing that so, you know, it`s not confirmation that she was, but her personnel list -- known as her best friend said that it`s a very good possibility.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I could say this as a recovering alcoholic with 13 years of sobriety, Janet Taylor, psychiatrist, substances change you as a human being. And people are capable of doing things on alcohol when they`re drunk or on drugs that they would be absolutely incapable of doing sober.

Is that not true? And does that not impact this case?

TAYLOR: Well, it impacts the case in the sense that it really points to the fact that her process, her psychological process in unraveling and disruption began before Caylee was missing, unfortunately, and there were so many inconsistencies and so many examples that it seems like nobody ever said, you need to get some help.

Hey, not once has anybody`s indicated that she had any professional intervention.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mark Williams, news director, WNDB, has she -- how many psychiatric evaluations has she had?

WILLIAMS: From what we can gather, at least one, possibly two. And those psychological evaluations were sent to the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals in Daytona Beach, because Jose Baez, her lawyer, wanted a second shot at a bond hearing, but those reports were never released to, of course, the general public or the media.

So they are under wraps right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hmm, fascinating. Marla from Oklahoma, your question, ma`am?

MARLA, OKLAHOMA RESIDENT: Yes. I think that the grandparents gave her an ultimatum to straighten her act up or they was going to file for custody of that baby because of the first 911 call where the mom says, we`ll get the court thing going.

And then I also want to know, who picked up the car that she abandoned or no?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it was abandoned, yes.

Mark Williams, clarify that, because, you know, one of the problems with this case, so much conflicting information, first, Casey says, oh, she left the child with a baby-sitter on June 9th. Then there`s videotapes that pops up showing the child with Cindy, the grandmother, on June 15th. The grandfather sees her June 16th. Then this car shows up abandoned.

Give us the time line for the car.

WILLIAMS: OK, the car allegedly ran out of gas and she parked it at an Amscot parking lot or one of the shopping centers here locally. The car was then picked up by a towing service who took it to their impound area.

They finally got a hold of the Anthonys and said, hey, come pick up your car. They did, they literally bailed it out, took it home. And when Casey became a suspect in all of this, or even a person of interest in all this, the police department, the Orange County Sheriff`s investigators confiscated the car and they took it to their impound area where they`ve gone over it with a fine-toothed comb, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the DNA results from what they`ve taken from the car -- the stains, the hair, and whatever else -- I know we ask this all the time, but when are they going to come back or are they back and being kept -- held by authorities?

WILLIAMS: Well, that is still up in the air. Two weeks ago, almost three weeks ago, investigators told us they expected the DNA evidence back then. We have not heard hide nor hair of the DNA evidence.

So who knows? And really when they got them back, they were going to keep them close to their chest, basically, because they didn`t want to release these things because they`re, again, still trying to build a case.

One thing we need to always keep in mind is that they should be -- they should be searching for Caylee and that Casey is innocent until proven guilty.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. She is only charged at this point with child neglect and allegedly making false statements to authorities. And I agree with you, she deserves the presumption of innocence.

But Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney, what about the fact that they released all these 400 pages of documents? If they had the DNA back, wouldn`t they have been forced to release those results as well as part of this freedom of information request by the "Orlando Sentinel" that was successful?

SHERMAN: I guess so, but you know what, Jane, there`s something wrong with that. I mean when the police make conducting an investigation and they`re trying to solve a murder, we, the public, the press, the media, we have no business seeing what the reports say.

How can they possibly preserve the integrity of the police investigation when they`re showing us reports as they go along. There`s something in that -- it doesn`t make sense. I could see the FOI, the freedom of information, kicking in afterward, but not during.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Christopher, what do you think? Because, obviously, Casey`s attorney didn`t want these released and fought like heck to keep them from coming out.

Why didn`t the DNA results if they were back come as part of this package?

AMOLSCH: One, I agree with Mickey. It`s completely weird and unusual that the FOI, and (INAUDIBLE) request would deal with this kind of information on an ongoing murder investigation and the reason the DNA results aren`t there is because they`re not back yet. That`s why.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

A question straight out to Kathy Reichs, forensic anthropologist and author of "Devil Bones."

Is this case going to boil down to the DNA results found in that car?

REICHS: Well, I don`t think it is, because one of the problems is, is that there`s a million explanations why Caylee`s DNA would be in that car, even if they found her hair in the trunk. OK, maybe they went on a picnic, Caylee was on the blanket, the blanket ends up in the trunk, so that you`ve got reasonable explanations why it`s in that car.

The trunk is a little bit more problematical than the body of the car. But I don`t think that`s going to boil down to it without a large network of additional -- evidence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely, it`s fascinating. We don`t know whether some of these tests can reveal whether the DNA is deceased -- from a deceased body or not. And that`s a big question.

Tony Padilla, your thoughts on whether or not you`re happy that you got involved with this case, given the bombshell information that came out tonight about Casey.

T. PADILLA: Well, there`s not anything in there that really doesn`t surprise me, other than the fact that she likes to use mistruths to whoever comes into her lives.

I don`t think that`s quite the big shocker that everybody thinks it is. As far as I`m concerned, I trust my uncle. I hope that he can find her. He`s very good at finding people and if he needs my help and support, whatever it takes to get Caylee back, that`s fine with me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I agree with you right there. Thank you so much for your thoughts.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../25/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

Fired for Lying About Relationship With Missing Toddler`s Mother

Aired August 26, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Shocking, and I mean really shocking, new developments in the case of that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee last seen with her mother, Casey. Little Caylee has been missing, as you probably know, for 10 long weeks. Now just in the last couple of hours, police announce one of their own has been fired for allegedly lying about his connection to Casey Anthony. A sheriff`s deputy reportedly had a sexual relationship and numerous on-line chats with mother, Casey, just weeks before little Caylee goes missing. This as more than 400 pages of key documents in the investigation are released.
And we have even more bombshells for you tonight, bombshells so big. the California bounty hunter who helped bail out Casey now says if he knew then what he knows now, he probably would not have come to Orlando at all. Yet another witness claims Casey abandoned car smelled just like a dead body. And it`s revealed mom, Casey, took little Caylee to adult parties and poker nights, drinking and partying just feet from where the little girl slept on a couch.

We already knew Casey Anthony stole money and gas from her own parents, but now comes word Casey actually stole -- get this -- money from her own 80-year-old grandma and allegedly cleaned out a friend`s bank account. Still tonight, the big question remains, where, oh, where is 3- year-old Caylee Anthony?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) speaking with (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s it about?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No comment?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former Orange County deputy Tony Rusciano did not want to talk to us about Casey or Caylee Anthony. The 24-year-old was only on the force for six months until he was fired on Friday. Deputies found out he was linked to the 22-year-old mother just a few weeks ago. When he was questioned about knowing her, he initially told them that he met her at a party and barely knew her. But he was terminated after detectives looked into the relationship a little further.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace tonight. Could this be the big break in the case we`ve all been waiting for? Shocking, really shocking new developments as more than 400 pages of key documents are released in the search for 3-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony. This as a sheriff`s deputy is caught lying during the investigation over his alleged sexual relationship with Casey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An Orange County sheriff`s deputy was fired just hours ago after it was proven that he lied about reportedly having a sexual relationship with Caylee`s mother, Casey Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They did a forensic search of Casey Anthony`s computer and typed in some key words. It led them to pages of chats between Rusciano and Anthony. They did talk about her daughter, Caylee, in those chats, but none of the chat was truly meaningful in terms of helping detectives find the missing three 3-year-old. We do understand that Rusciano and Anthony had a sexual relationship. Apparently, they were talking to each other around the end of May, which would be just weeks before Casey says she last saw her daughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. The big bombshell of the evening in the very same Florida sheriff`s department that is investigating the disappearance of little Caylee Anthony, word that a sheriff`s deputy has been fired for allegedly lying about his relationship with that missing child`s mother, Casey. The sheriff`s department isn`t revealing the nature of their relationship, but reporter Jessica D`Onofrio, of CNN affiliate WKMG, is reporting that the cop and Casey had a sexual relationship.

For the latest on this truly stunning development, let`s go straight out to that very reporter. Jessica, tell us everything you know about this alleged relationship.

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, what I know is that he was terminated five days ago. He wasn`t fired for having a relationship with Casey Anthony, he was fired for lying about it. Detectives got word that he might know her a couple weeks ago, so they started asking him questions. How do you know her? How long have you known her for? They actually interviewed him twice, and detectives say that he lied to them twice about the nature of his relationship with her.

Come to find out, they went into Casey Anthony`s computer that they had seized a while ago. They were able to put in some keyword searches. And then up pops a chat between Casey Anthony and Tony Rusciano, this deputy that was just fired. In the chat, you can see that they obviously had some kind of relationship. You can also understand that they are talking about Caylee at points in time in that conversation. But what I`m told is that there`s no reason to believe that there was anything in those chats that would lead them to find this missing 3-year-old.

I understand that he did have a romantic relationship with Casey Anthony. Of course, you know, he was fired because -- not because he had this relationship with her but because he lied about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jessica, how did they meet?

D`ONOFRIO: From what we understand, he met her at a party. Initially, he said he had met her at a party but he barely knew her. They looked through that computer and found out that wasn`t the case. And of course, when he was confronted with that, he `fessed up.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand that her ex-fiancee was also a cop and possibly he was the one who introduced the two of them?

D`ONOFRIO: I don`t have that confirmed. But Jesse Grund (ph) -- he is an Orlando police officer -- he recently resigned. She was dating him for a while, and I believe that there are some questions about whether he introduced Casey to this deputy.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is such a shocker. Let`s go to Mark Williams, news director at WNDB Newstalk 1150. You have been covering this from the very beginning. And let`s talk about this alleged sexual relationship between Casey and this cop who has now resigned. According to the timeline, wasn`t she also having a relationship with somebody else around the end of May, a guy named Tony?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Tony Lazaro she was having a relationship with, Jane. Here`s the deal, is that she was almost living with Lazaro at the same time when all this was going down when, all of a sudden, Caylee went missing. And Lazaro and she were basically living together. So basically, she was playing two people against each other, which is pretty interesting.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Marva Hinton, reporter for WDBO radio, also covering this case from the very start, let us tally up the number of relationships that we can attribute, at least allegedly, to this 22-year- old Casey. How many are we talking about, and who are we talking about?

MARVA HINTON, WDBO: Well, just since little Caylee has been missing, she was reportedly involved with four different men. We`ve mentioned some of them already tonight -- Tony Lazaro, Jesse Grund -- back at the end of June, they spent a weekend at the beach together. There`s also Ricardo Morales (ph). I think -- I`m not sure if we`ve mentioned him or not. But she was also spending time with him and with the deputy who was fired. So that`s four different men all while little Caylee was missing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And then, of course, we have the mystery of who is the father of Caylee, which apparently has not been solved whatsoever. Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing For Sport," there is nothing illegal about having relationships. But given the nature of this case and some of the other things that have come into play -- the allegations of drug use on the part of some friends that are in the documents -- and we have 400 pages here of documents which we first showed you last night that we`ve been going through all night long to get all the details -- so again, you know, having a relationship isn`t illegal. But do we have to bring in the issue or the question of promiscuity or alleged promiscuity into the mix? And what could it signify?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I think the most interesting thing about Casey`s many boyfriends after Caylee went missing is the simple fact that she wouldn`t have any time to look for her child if she`s got all these relationships going and that she would even have an interest in starting up one relationship after another when her child is missing. So that puts more validity in the fact that she had no interest in looking for her child.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, to add to what was just said, there is another huge shocker in this case -- and it seems like every page of that 400 pages had a shocker, another bombshell -- but reports the that after Caylee went missing, at least two friends told investigators that Casey asked them to go nightclubbing. This is after her little girl goes missing.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: If a person doesn`t have a conscience, they have no capacity for empathy and they don`t experience anxiety the way normal people do. They live in the moment, and they`re impulsive, just looking to serve their own needs. So if you don`t experience guilt, if you don`t have a conscience, if you`re basically a sociopath, then there`s no problem going out partying or having 25 lovers while your baby is out there alone and possibly dead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped get Casey out of jail, I understand that you have said today -- and we`ve seen it -- that if you`d known all along what you found out after these 400 pages were revealed, you might not have come at all to bail Casey out. Explain.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: After reading it, I don`t believe I would have talked my nephew, Tony Padilla, into posting the bond, and I certainly don`t believe that I would have come to Orlando after reading that. I mean, I`m still hoping that the little girl is alive, but there`s a lot of information in those 400 pages that would lead people to believe something different.

And then with these revelations about her mental state of mind -- I mean, it`s -- I place myself in a position of saying, OK, what would I do if my 3-year-old was missing, or even my 16-year-old? And I don`t know that I could survive something like that, much less go partying or do any of that kind of stuff. It`s just -- so this -- a lot of these things I interpreted as, Well, somebody that she knows and trusts has the baby, and therefore it`s not bothering her because she feels confident. I still deep down hope that that`s what it is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, I don`t have children, but I have three dogs that I love very much. And I would never not worry about my three dogs if I left them with somebody 10 weeks ago. Obviously, I`d be worried about them. So this whole idea that she`s not concerned because she left them with a friend -- I don`t buy that for one second, Leonard.

PADILLA: I -- you can beat me up. I mean, you know, I`ve got three dogs at home and I call home every day and I ask about them. I -- you know, and my 16-year-old, so I -- what can I say?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you are having second thoughts after all, after all that you`ve done.

PADILLA: I`ve lost confidence in a couple of the people that are working with me on this particular situation. I mean, you know, that report was an eye-opener, definitely an eye-opener.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Fascinating stuff. Let`s bring in the defense attorneys, Richard Herman and Ray Giudice. You`ve been listening to all of this, and we`ll start with Richard. Are we making too much of this? Is this piling on against this young woman who hasn`t had a chance to defend herself, or is this just one horrible revelation, one bombshell after another that points in one very disturbing direction?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hey, you know, Jane, I put a chart together. I list everything she`s done from the time that child went missing up to the present, all the lies, all the boyfriends, everything going on. You want to talk about a diminished capacity defense? This girl`s not just a sociopath, she has no clue what`s going on. I`m telling you, I don`t believe she can even perceive what is happening, that her kid`s missing, what`s going on. Her brain is gone!

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ray Giudice, you agree, or do you think perhaps this is a woman -- I mean, if you go to anybody and you interview all of their friends, you`re going to come up with some dirt. I don`t care who you are. People are going to say, Oh, yes, you were partying. I mean, so where do we draw the line? How do we know when we`re being fair or unfair?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the conversation tonight has been a very interesting psychoanalysis of this young lady, who we all know is deeply disturbed. But there`s been no shred of additional evidence. Those 400-and-some-odd pages just confirm everything we`ve known and assumed about this young lady, that she`s a sociopath, she`s a lousy parent, she`s reckless, which may have led to the harm to this child. But there`s not one more shred of evidence for a homicide indictment today.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport," investigators say Casey knows the truth. She`s the key to answering this. Now, she had clammed up despite more than 30 days in isolation in jail. Leonard Padilla said, I`m going to bail her out because once she has a hot meal and gets a manicure, she`s going to start talking. Apparently, that hasn`t happened. Do you think all these revelations are going to make her sort of come clean -- Oh, my God, look what everybody`s saying, I better tell the truth?

BROWN: Oh, no, not at all, Jane, because she is a psychopath. She`s not going to do that. She`s going continue what she`s doing because she`s hoping to buy more time. The more time that goes by, the more the elements will destroy all the evidence out there, the more decomp will destroy the elements. And she knows she can just sit there and let things go. And there`s no sense in her doing anything except wait it out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, let`s talk about a diagnosis. You just heard "psychopath." Cindy`s own mother has been quoted by a friend as calling her a sociopath. Another friend calls her bipolar. Experts on this program have said she suffers from anti-social personality disorder. Which one is it, or is it all of them?

SAUNDERS: Well, I haven`t interviewed her, so I can`t offer a diagnosis. But people use the terms sociopath and psychopath interchangeably. The anti-social personality disorder has some other features, where people habitually commit criminal acts or habitually violate the legal rights of others. So I think it`s more in the department of sociopathy or a psychopath, as Pat Brown was saying. The hallmarks of it are very shallow emotion, no anxiety, very poor bonding with anybody. This woman has a history -- alleged history of not really having any substantial relationships with anybody. And I fear that she doesn`t really bond with her baby.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But you know, I have to say -- and I say this as a recovering alcoholic with 13 years of sobriety. When I hear her talk about going clubbing after the baby goes missing, what I think about is somebody trying to escape because what is drugs, what is alcohol but a form of escape? And then you go to a club. And you know, there`s the music and the noise. And if somebody`s running away from a truth that they don`t want to face, isn`t that behavior they`re likely to exhibit as they sort of try to escape from the realities that would descend upon them if they sat alone in a room?

SAUNDERS: You`re making the assumption of a normal person who`s in recovery. Perhaps her escape is from boredom, which is something that the sociopath or the psychopath cannot tolerate. They`re constantly seeking stimulation and excitement. They`re an empty vessel with very little inside.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Marva Hinton, reporter with WDBO radio, what has she been doing today? Because you know, when she left jail, she said to her lawyer, I`m innocent, I`m going to walk out with my head high, as the reporters descended upon her during that storm, with the umbrella, that famous, now infamous shot. Well, apparently, going to and from her lawyer`s office, she`s running in and out. She`s not walking with her head high.

HINTON: That`s right, Jane. It looks like Casey really doesn`t want to be seen. She did go running to her car. One thing I thought that was very odd about today and very eerie is that Casey was wearing a T-shirt that had little Caylee`s picture on it. And that`s something that her parents have been doing, but just to see her do it and knowing all the evidence that`s come out, it was just very strange to see that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, my gosh. You know, I want to go back to Richard Herman and Ray Giudice. Ray, this deputy was not fired, as the reporter mentioned, for having a relationship but for allegedly lying about it. What`s the distinction there?

GIUDICE: Right. Well, he didn`t do anything wrong, first of all. He had a relationship with another adult, consensual, apparently. And this all took place, apparently, before the child came up missing. So he should have came in when he saw her name and her picture spread upon the news and `fessed up, and I think he`d still be working.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is the possibility this child is no longer alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. That can be concluded.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. And is Miss Anthony a suspect in that circumstance?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wouldn`t use the word suspect. I would use the word person of interest.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You have to tell me if you know anything about Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CHILD: You know I would not let anything happen to my daughter.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that she`s safe.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew where she was, this wouldn`t be going on.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She knows who has her daughter. She knows her daughter`s safe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m right along with the rest of America, going, I don`t understand. I`m confused.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. A stunning, truly unbelievable bombshell, the Florida sheriff`s department investigating the disappearance of little Caylee now says it just fired a deputy for allegedly lying about having a relationship with that missing girl`s mom, Casey. And one TV station is claiming they were doing the nasty. In other words, that it was allegedly a sexual relationship.

Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter CNN affiliate WKMG, you reported it was a sexual relationship. What information do you have to reach that conclusion?

D`ONOFRIO: Well, because that`s what I was told by one of my sources, is that the deputy who was terminated just five days ago had admitted at some point in the interview that he was romantically involved with Casey Anthony. So I heard it from one of my sources.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Rachelle, Alabama. Your question, ma`am?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I have a statement and one quick question. First of all, they keep saying she was passed off to somebody. She fell in love. She maybe brokered her. This little child`s face has been ingrained in everybody`s mind in the United States by now. Where are they keeping her if she`s been passed off? And second, Mr. Padilla now believes that he probably wouldn`t have put this money down. Can`t he revoke his bond?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, good question. Leonard Padilla, take it away.

PADILLA: Well, it`s not really my call. It`s my nephew. He`s the bondsman, and he has control of the bond. If he was to decide to revoke it, he could do that, yes. But normally, it`s not a thing that`s done because a bondsman is in the business of freeing people from jail, not guilt or innocence. And so I don`t think he would do that, no.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony admitted to the FBI that when he first smelled his daughter`s car, he thought it was the odor of a body.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING CHILD`S GRANDMOTHER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police also spoke with the facility manager of the tow truck company that was holding Casey Anthony`s car, and he told cops that the smell coming from Anthony`s car reminded him of the smell from another car where a man committed suicide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. A deputy now fired for allegedly lying about having a relationship, allegedly, according to some, a sexual relationship with Casey Anthony, the missing Florida girl`s mom. That shocker just in late this afternoon.

Lighting up the phone lines. Sheinna from West Virginia, your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not buying the whole fired because he has sex with that girl. There has to be more. I have a lot of friends who are in law enforcement. That`s just not enough to get a cop fired. We know officers are known for not having trouble finding women. There has to be something deeper, drugs, or maybe he knows something actually about the murder. They would not fire him just for lying about having sex with this girl.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Jessica D`Onofrio, you broke the story in part. What do you say?

D`ONOFRIO: Yes, I can answer that question. He was fired for lying to detectives about this. When they come to him and ask him a question, How do you know her, and he says, I don`t know her, he -- I only kind of knew her, and he provides incomplete answers, that`s a problem to detectives. So he was fired for lying to them, not for having this relationship with her.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Shocking documents, over 400 pages long, reveal new details about the investigation. And it`s a bombshell.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The shocking thing, she wanted to give up Caylee for adoption.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy saying that they have nothing to hide and her daughter held her head high. But in these documents she`s describing her daughter, allegedly, as a socio path, that her daughter is doing drugs, and her daughter expressed regret for having the child because now she can`t go out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She mentioned that she wish she hadn`t had Caylee because she`s not able to do the type of things she likes to do like go out. In the days after Caylee went missing we received pictures of her partying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a one signed document, it`s all damaging, it`s all prejudicial, and it gives great bother to all of us to say, wow, what a scum bag she must be because she said this and she said that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

The case of missing Caylee Anthony morphing by the second with shocker after shocker, bombshell claims of sex, drugs and hard partying by mom Casey.

Now we`re at the very same Florida sheriff`s department investigating the disappearance of little Caylee Anthony just fired one of its own deputy for allegedly lying about having a relationship with the missing girl`s mom Casey.

And beyond this, take a look at this, if you didn`t see it before, more than 400 pages of explosive documents in the case are released where at least two friends say Casey invited them to go nightclubbing after her daughter went missing.

But let`s go back to Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter with CNN affiliate WKMG about the big bombshell of the evening -- this reported relationship between Casey and the cop.

Bring us up to date again on the details, specifically why you think it`s a sexual relationship?

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, REPORTER, WKMG: Well, I heard that from a source that he admitted that when he was being interviewed by detectives. Again, he was fired just about five days ago from the Orange County Sheriff`s Office for having a relationship with Casey -- not for having a relationship, but just because he lied about it. That was the big problem.

And I want to point out something about the Orange County`s Sheriff Office here, too. If they are going after who they`re calling a liar, namely Casey Anthony, you can imagine that they would want to employ an admitted liar, a deputy on their own force.

So, you know, of course, in this instance it`s appropriate, it seems, that they let him go, especially because they are trying to pursue who they are calling a liar in this case, and that`s Casey Anthony.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jessica, just imagine how psychologically debilitating it has to be to all the investigators. Do you know how hard it is to compile these much evidence? All the people they interviewed, the evidence they collected, all the work they did, and then to have this undermine them has to make them crazy. And I -- I hope they recoup from it very quickly.

Jessica, I understand you have a question for Leonard Padilla.

D`ONOFRIO: Yes, I do have a question for Leonard Padilla. I mean, you know, we got these 400-plus pages of documents yesterday. And really it`s only going over a lot of what we found out in the initial affidavit that was handed out to all the media from day one on this case.

It`s just very curious to me, Leonard, how -- you know, you could have read that from the beginning, instead of coming all the way out to Orlando and being shocked by this new information yesterday.

It makes me question your motives for being out here.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, BAILED OUT CASEY ANTHONY FROM JAIL: Go ahead and question them. But I`m telling you this, you have to couple that with the fact that she has totally not cooperated with us.

We wanted to get her out because if she said if she got out, she wanted to go find her daughter. That was the prime reason for getting her out and that is, go find her daughter.

Sure, there`s a slight chance today that we can still find her alive. We`re still working on that. However.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard, did you really think that they were going to let her go off with you and go on some kind of hike to find her daughter? I mean when they release somebody under these conditions, they`re going to have an ankle bracelet monitoring them.
     
Were your expectations realistic given.

PADILLA: No, no, no, stop. I didn`t think they`d let her go with us. I thought she`d sit down and we`d talk in front of her attorney and she`d say, well, let me fill some of the blanks. Let me tell you the truth about what happened.

There was no Zenaida, there was no Apartment 210, there was no Blanchard Park. Here`s what I really did.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well.

PADILLA: Nothing -- she`s not be forthcoming about anything.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right, but it turns out that her lawyer won`t let her talk to you. I mean you could have called the lawyer and found that out from the get-go.

PADILLA: No, no, no. The attorney said -- the only time that he -- he would allow her to talk to us if she wants to talk to us, he`ll allow it. In his presence, he will allow her to discuss it with us.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let me ask you this question while we`re on this - subject, and I don`t mean to beat you up because you seem a little down.

PADILLA: No, that`s fine. Go ahead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But there are a lot of people who say, look, you`re going to get that $50,000 back that you posted for her bail when this case is finally adjudicated.

PADILLA: No, no, no.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So, basically, you got millions of dollars worth of free publicity as a bounty hunter.

PADILLA: Stop. You don`t know what you`re talking about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

PADILLA: I paid $50,000 for a half million dollar bond.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Right.

PADILLA: The 50,000 is spent. Now half million dollar bond gets exonerated when she goes back to custody or she`s exonerated. It hasn`t got anything to do with the $50,000.

You folks should learn about.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. Now I -- my understanding was that if the case is adjudicated -- let`s say, for example, the charges are dropped or whatever, she`s -- she walks scot-free that you get that $50,000 back. You`re saying nobody gets that $50,000 back.

PADILLA: Wrong. That`s spent money. It`s like your car insurance. Just because you don`t have an accident in the year doesn`t mean you get it back. The bondsman -- that`s how he makes his money.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. OK.

PADILLA: OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`ve clarified it and thank you for being a good sport.

PADILLA: Yes. That`s fine.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go to another very patient man, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, one of my favorites forensic scientist par excellence.

Another shocker, in these documents is that a manager at the tow yard who dealt with Casey`s car says that it smells just like another car he`s once dealt with where it turned out a man had committed suicide in that car and the body sat there for five days.

In other words, he smelled the smell of death.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes, that -- absolutely, Jane. I think the smell is very characteristic of decomposition. It`s something that once you`re familiar with it, you never forget it.

But I got to pull back and remind everybody that, although the case, as time goes on, looks worse and worse for Casey, you have to remember that, you know, the physical evidence -- the reports are not in.

We don`t have any serology, we don`t have any DNA. We don`t have the air sampling, so we really have no physical evidence. What we`re hearing about is the investigation is turning up facts that make us really suspicious.

But without having those facts, I would tell my students, don`t try to reconstruct the events of this possible crime until you`ve got it all together. There`s a lot missing here from the puzzle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Richard Herman, defense attorney, and Ray Giudice, do we have a motive? Because the big bombshell from yesterday was that a friend said that Casey wanted to give her daughter up for adoption back when she was still pregnant and her mother, Cindy, nixed that idea.

(CROSSTALK)

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m sorry. What was she 19 years old when she found out she was pregnant without a father? Come on, that`s reasonable.

I want to know -- what`s going on in Orlando where all these people know what dead bodies smell like? The mother, this guy at the car place? How do people know what dead bodies smell like first of all?

And why don`t you ask Mr. Padilla, who did he give the $50,000 to? Who did he pay that money to, to get that bond?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hmm, OK, well, Leonard, you want to answer that one?

PADILLA: Sure, I got no problem with it. It was paid to my nephew. He`s a bail bondsman. That`s what he does for a living.

HERMAN: OK.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. We got an answer to that question.

Jim, Indiana, your question, sir?

JIM, INDIANA RESIDENT: Hi, Jane. My question pertained to Mr. Padilla. And, with all due respect, at what point do you and your associates decided to cut your losses and hightail it back to California and get as far as away from this case as possible?

PADILLA: Hightail it -- we`re going to stick around until we either find a live Caylee or put a strong effort into finding a dead Caylee.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you even.

PADILLA: We`re not going to hightail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You`re out there in an RV outside their house, but do you have any contact with them whatsoever? Do you know what -- whether she`s watching TV and watching all this coverage?

PADILLA: No, I have no contact with her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what are you accomplishing being out there?

PADILLA: Well, the people that are there are actually working on a lot of information that we receive. I`m -- some of the time when I stop by there. But I`m not there on a consistent basis.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, where are you staying?

PADILLA: At a hotel here in town.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Boy, you know, you can`t make this stuff up. And I know you don`t have your cowboy hat anymore. You seem a little glum. Do you feel that this might come back to bite you, Leonard? This whole thing?

PADILLA: Absolutely not. If it wasn`t for me the media would have forgotten about it. It wouldn`t have got a second effort. Here`s my hat. So you don`t think I`m.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

PADILLA: . not wearing my hat.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. All right. Touche.

As we go toy break a special happy birthday to Millie in Palestine, Ohio.

We`re going to be covering a lot more in just a moment on this Caylee disappearance.

But right there, you have the birthday girl with her daughter Bev turning 90 years old today. Millie never, ever misses a show here on the NANCY GRACE show.

Happy birthday, Millie.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Disturbing new details about a missing 3-year- old Caylee Anthony and her mom. According to court documents released by prosecutors, Anthony wanted to give up her unborn daughter for adoption, but Casey`s mom insisted she keep the baby.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF CAYLEE: Caylee was born unexpected. My daughter was 19. We welcomed her with open harms.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On her MySpace page dated July 7th, about a week before Caylee was reported missing, Anthony posted, "What is given can be taken away. Everyone lies, everyone dies. Life will never be easy."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Chilling comments. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

So many stunning twists and turns tonight in the case of missing toddler Caylee Anthony. Now cops say one of their own had a relationship with the missing girl`s mom Casey. That as more disturbing claims surfaced about that young woman in more than 400 pages I`m holding right here of newly released documents.

Among the shocking claims, that Casey`s own mom Cindy told a friend that Casey stole not just from her, but from Casey`s own 80-year-old grandmother, by using routing numbers from a check that was a birthday gift.

And now, Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped bailed Casey out, just said moments ago on this show if he had known about all of this, he might not have come over and bailed her out.

But I want to bring Richard Herman, defense attorney, and Leonard Padilla, together for a second to debate this issue of the $50,000 and where it goes.

Richard, what are you saying? And let`s give Leonard a chance to respond.

HERMAN: Well, Leonard came off high and mighty before trying to belittle you about that $50,000. But that`s in his family. That stays in the family, that $50,000. He`s not losing that money, and he knows it.

He came out here for the publicity and now that she`s not talking to him, he`s got to keep his face up in the highlights.

Get out, stop making these comments about her. You`re jeopardizing the defense. You came, you posted the bond. That`s it now. Stop saying she`s not being forthcoming. Stop trying to destroy the defense of this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard?

PADILLA: I went to law school. I know he`s got to say that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, listen, you know, the $50,000 goes back to the bail bondsman, which is your nephew, so it stays in the family, is what he`s saying.

PADILLA: Well, let me tell you about my family. I have two sisters that haven`t talked to me in 10 years. I got a brother in the same business. He hasn`t talked to me in 10 years.

Believe me, we`re not -- we`re not a follow-the-sheep type family like that defense attorney probably is.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s move on to another bombshell aspect of this case.

Marva Hinton, reporter, WDBO Radio, there`s so many shocking charges in those 400 pages it`s hard to keep track of all of them. But one of Casey`s friends named Amy said Casey brought her 2-year-old daughter Caylee to adult parties.

Tell us all about that.

MARVA HINTON, WDBO RADIO REPORTER: Well, she was saying that when they would go out and they`d have these parties that she would just bring little Caylee. She put little Caylee her on a couch while the adults were doing what they were doing. And this is, just as you said, another disturbing detail that came out of those 400 pages.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to go back to Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, about the trunk of the car that was abandoned by Casey and the DNA test on them.

Is it all going to boil down to DNA? And also, can they tell from that DNA whether the DNA was from a dead body as opposed to a living body? Because, obviously, there would, in its explanation, for a living DNA of the family car.

KOBILINSKY: No, Jane. You really can`t tell if the source is living or dead. However, if there`s decomposition, which we will know when we get the results of the air testing -- if there`s decomposition of DNA you will get a breakdown of high molecular weight, good quality DNA into a degraded form.

And that may be the reason that it`s taking so long to get results. But the key here is, if there`s decomposition there, if Caylee`s DNA is there, I think there`s enough there to convict. You don`t need a body. You can`t put those two items together in the same place without the unmistakable conclusion that Caylee is no longer alive.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ray Giudice, defense attorney, they all saw no body, no case. But Larry Kobilinsky is saying maybe not.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I agree with the doctor. You don`t need a body to have a case. That`s been tried and trued over and over again. I also agree with the doctor that if we have DNA evidence of decomposing matter in that trunk of that car, that`s where they`re going to start to build the case.

All of this other stuff is just hypothesis and assumptions. DNA, (INAUDIBLE) forensic DNA will move the case forward.

But let me also say, if it`s negative, you`ve got a lot of people who think they know what the smell of death is, that don`t know what they`re talking about, and that`s going to come back to haunt the prosecution.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right -- Kathy from Alabama, your question, ma`am.

KATHY, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

KATHY: My question is, if the deputy that was fired had nothing to high, he would have no reason to lie. And could you ask Leonard if he could to elaborate on the two colleagues he was talking about. And also I`ve smelled a dead body in the woods and I didn`t know what it was, but it was totally -- you knew it was totally different from anything else.

Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

Leonard Padilla, why don`t you take it away?

PADILLA: There was two gentlemen that came out here. After I arrived they came out when they read parts of the report and all that. They said, hey, we`re out of here. So they went back to California. Probably in line with what your defense attorney there is saying.

But, by the same token, you know, they haven`t said whose DNA is in the trunk. If there was a dead body, it might be -- hey, there`s other people who might have.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, anything is possible, Leonard.

PADILLA: Right.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But what we`re saying is that is there a certain responsibility in coming up with theories that have some basis in fact.

PADILLA: That`s correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter, let`s talk a little bit about, you know, this whole issue of why this officer lied. He didn`t really have to lie. What was his motive for lying, do you think?

D`ONOFRIO: You know I don`t know what his motive for lying was. And I`m not here to defend this former deputy, but I will say, if you look at everybody who`s come forward in this case, people who`ve given interviews on various national news programs, after they give these interviews or after they admit to one thing or another or their name is released, a lot of these folks have received death threats.

They`ve gotten threats from all over the country. It seems that anyone who touches this case gets into some kind of trouble like that. And I`m not defending this deputy by any means. That`s not what I`m here to do. But I can see the apprehension from a lot of people who have -- who have had contact with Casey Anthony not wanting to say that they have.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in Nancy Grace.

Pat Brown, criminal profiler, what occurs to me is this deputy lost an opportunity to be a hero. If he had told his authorities, his supervisors, that he`d had this relationship from the outset, he could have been used to go in there and talk to Casey, and maybe get the truth and bring it back to his bosses.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": Well, I don`t think he would have gotten the truth anyway, Jane. That`s just not going to happen.

However, I think the caller that was -- earlier said there may have been some other reason they got rid of him. I don`t think it necessarily had to do with this case but he may have had some behaviors before that -- you know when this came up, this was just kind of a good opportunity.

So he may have had some, and I say, squirrelly behavior that was a little uncomfortable for everybody but it didn`t necessarily have to do with this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We only have a couple of seconds.

Let`s bring in the lawyers, Richard Herman and Ray Giudice. In these 400 pages, is there a smoking gun, yes or no, Richard?

GIUDICE: I didn`t see anything. Richard?

HERMAN: Absolutely not. Ray is right. There is no smoking gun and a lot of it is not going to admissible. The only evidence.

GIUDICE: It`s a rehash.

HERMAN: The only evidence comes in court, Jane. You know that.

GIUDICE: Yes. And it`s just a rehash.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but I mean, do you see a smoking gun?

HERMAN: No. Absolutely not.

GIUDICE: No, Jane. This is the same stuff we know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m not playing Perry Mason. I`m saying did you see one. I guess you didn`t. And you guys both agree and you`re both very good lawyers so I assume that you`re probably right.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../26/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Report Lab Says Dead Body Was in Tot Mom`s Car Trunk

Aired August 27, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Explosive developments in the case that all of America is watching. And unfortunately, it appears to be sad news. Tonight, stunning new forensic information just in as police investigate the disappearance of that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee, last seen with her mother, Casey. Little Caylee has been missing, as you probably know, for 10 long weeks.
A huge bombshell tonight as we go to broadcast. We learn air samples taken from Casey Anthony`s car trunk confirm human decomposition. This bombshell now backs a frantic 911 call made by the toddler`s grandmother, Cindy, saying that her daughter, Casey`s, car smelled like a dead body. And Cadaver dogs also hit on Casey Anthony`s car trunk.

As these shocking results surface, we learn an immunity deal is now on the table, authorities reportedly giving Casey Anthony until next Tuesday to give up key information that would help investigators find Caylee, all in exchange for a limited immunity. The clock now ticking. but will this be the big break we`ve been waiting for in the search for Caylee? Just hours ago, investigators meet with Casey Anthony at her lawyer`s office. But tonight, still no sign of 3-year-old Caylee. And the big question remains, Where is this little girl?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking developments just revealed in the case of missing 3-year-old toddler Caylee Anthony. Results from the lab known as the "body farm" reveal that a body was decomposing in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. After waiting for weeks and weeks, these are reportedly the first test results showing that a dead body was in tot mom Casey Anthony`s vehicle.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: WKMG, the CNN affiliate in Orlando, also reporting that the state attorney`s office has offered Casey some form of limited immunity, the state attorney`s not confirming that the immunity deal was offered, but saying Anthony was invited to their office to shed light on the disappearance of Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, bombshell after bombshell emerging in the search for a 3- year-old Florida girl, Caylee Anthony. And now shocking and really disturbing forensic results.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news released moments ago regarding the disappearance of 3-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Some of the lab test results on Casey Anthony`s vehicle are back, and it`s not good news for 22-year-old tot mom. The station claims that the University of Tennessee`s "body farm" laboratory discovered evidence that a body was decomposing in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. And she just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her myself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Anthony family meanwhile has maintained that the smell in the car was due to rotting pizza and cleaning fluid left in the hot car.

CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots and stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell alone is a good indication that it was not some type of pizza or food material. But this evidence certainly adds very good credibility to the fact that this is consistent with human remains.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace, with breaking news. The stunning developments are also quite heart-wrenching. Air samples from the trunk of Casey`s car reportedly reveal human decomposition.

For the very latest on this serious development, let`s go straight out to Jessica D`Onofrio, a reporter for CNN affiliate WKMG. Jessica, what is the very latest on these air sample results?

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, sources close to the investigation told me today that, of course, as you`ve been reporting, the results are back from the University of Tennessee`s body farm. That is a place where there are known to be experts on this kind of stuff. They have bodies scattered in different positions across a field in various stages of decomposition. And they`ve come back with their results, their preliminary results about these air samples that the Orange County sheriff`s office sent to them weeks ago, they took from Casey Anthony`s trunk.

Those air samples are returned, and from what we understand right now, as you`ve been reporting, as we`ve been reporting all afternoon and evening, that there was an indication that there was a decomposing body in the trunk of her car.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s another way of saying a dead body in the trunk of the car. Mark Williams, news director WNDB Newstalk 1150, you have been covering this case from the very start. This is obviously sad, heart- wrenching news. The whole country has been rooting for this gorgeous little girl to be found alive. And the obvious implication, but I think we need to state it, is that it`s much more likely now that this little girl, Caylee, is not alive.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, one of the developments this afternoon, Jane, was the fact that investigators -- John Allen (ph) -- Sergeant John Allen with the Orange County sheriff`s office, showed up at the attorney`s office, Jose Baez`s office in Kissimmee this afternoon. He was followed by three of his colleagues. There they met with Cindy Anthony, Casey`s mother, for a while. Casey showed up for just a short period of time. She left just before 3:00 o`clock Eastern. The investigators then left around 5:00 o`clock Eastern.

And what this leads to, Jane, who knows? I mean, they`re waiting -- they have these preliminary results back right now. They got them about 3:00 o`clock this afternoon. But now I think they`re waiting for the DNA tests to come in from the FBI and the FDLE to really confirm what the body farm has told them in their preliminary testing. And from that point on, you know, your imagination can only run wild. Could there be a murder indictment? Was this an accident? Could there be some leniency in this case? Jane, who knows?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter CNN affiliate WKMG, when we say the results are in showing human decomposition, i.e., a dead body, there is no identity attached to that human decomposition, is there.

D`DONOFRIO: That`s correct, Jane, because we are still waiting for those DNA results. Those were sent off to the FBI. Those are going to be from hair samples that were taken out of the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. So we`re still waiting back to hear about who those could be linked to. A lot of people are worried, of course, that that could be the 3-year-old girl. Of course, a lot of people are hoping that`s not the case. But we`re not sure right now if those results have been returned and the sheriff`s office is just holding them, or if they haven`t been returned yet and we have yet to hear about what their results are.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to the experts now. We have board- certified forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Arnall with us. Dr. Arnall, until this case, actually, I had never heard of air samples being tested for human decomposition. Is this a new technology, and is it a reliable technology?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It`s a new technology. The scientists at the University of Tennessee have published the results in scientific journals. And they`ve collected the air over decomposing bodies and they`ve characterized the compounds that one finds in that air. They`ve taken that air and they`ve put it through a relatively well established technology. That`s gas chromatography. But the new technology that they`ve brought to bear is they`ve characterized the specific compounds that are found next to a decomposing dead human body.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. And as we explore this, we have to dovetail it with another major development. Mark Williams, news director WNDB, this offer of limited immunity to Casey in exchange for what? Tell us all about that because these are connected.

WILLIAMS: Well, yes. And apparently, she visited the state attorney`s office, the office of Lawson Lamar (ph) here in Orlando. And there`s a couple of different -- they`re not confirming anything, of course. But there`s a couple of different stories out there right now. One of them is she has until close of business tomorrow afternoon to say it was an accident, and they go on their merry way. Of course, you`re saying that she has until next week. And the state attorney`s office still not confirming nor denying the report that she could be offered immunity. And of course, a lot of people have said this may be just a horrible accident and that that`s why they`re offering the immunity.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, let`s bring in the lawyers -- boy, do we need them tonight -- Doug Burns and Renee Rockwell. Doug, let`s start with you. Let`s talk about these air samples. Do you think they will end up being admissible in court, or will they be more like a polygraph, where it may indicate something but it`s not reliable enough to be admissible in court?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, that`s a good point. I think it`s going to boil down to the use of experts. In other words, Jane, they`ll prepare an expert report, they`ll give it to the other side. The other side will have an opportunity to have their own expert look at it and analyze it. It`s hard to say definitively. It`ll be up to the judge. I mean, if it`s a brand-new technology, maybe not. But I think it probably would be admissible.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Renee Rockwell, we`ve all covered these major cases where the big high-powered defense teams argue "Garbage in, garbage out." Imagine trying to establish a chain of custody for a jar of air. I mean, how could you prove that this air came from that particular trunk?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, to some jurors, it might sound a little bit like hocus pocus, and especially since it`s brand-new. I wouldn`t go on that alone. First you have to find out that somebody died. Then you have to find out who did it. So Jane, we`re a little bit far afield at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you the big question. Is this enough to prosecute for murder, or do we still have to wait for the DNA test results to come back with an identity to attach to the DNA, to then match up with the air sample?

ROCKWELL: Well, one thing that the world needs to know is you can absolutely charge someone with murder without having a body. But you have to prove that there was at least a homicide, and I think that the authorities would wait to prove that that was at least Casey`s DNA. Not to mean that it was a homicide, it could still be an accident. And we`ll be looking to se what happens in this immunity deal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Doug, how does this dovetail with the immunity deal? And the clock is ticking. The latest word we`ve gotten is that she has until Tuesday. They extended it. Why would they extend it? And what do you think they`re offering her in exchange for giving them information that will lead to Caylee`s whereabouts?

BURNS: The critical word that everybody has used tonight, Jane, is limited immunity. And what that means in simple English is they will not use the words that she utters to them in court. They agree to that. However, they do not agree that they will never prosecute her.

What I suspect is going on -- first of all, your first question is a good one. Why are they extending it? I think because, obviously, because they really need it and so they`re willing to extend it. But I think the reality of it is, is that at this point, with the pieces of the puzzle sadly falling into place the way they are -- and I think we all know -- I mean, they want to hear that this was an accident and that she panicked and covered it up, which I think is a pretty strong likelihood.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, two of her friends said that they thought she didn`t have the capacity to be malicious enough to do anything intentional to her daughter, but that they thought it was probably an accident and then she, quote, "freaked out," and did something to cover it up.

Donald Schweitzer, former detective, Santa Ana PD, how does this limited immunity work? I mean, we saw that -- the lead investigator going to visit the lawyers today. There`s a flurry of activity. Do they hand a piece of paper or do they walk in, like they do in the movies, and say, Hey, make a deal with us, you better start singing like a canary right now?

DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: It`s a very formal procedure. There are papers that are signed. The case goes before the judge. The judge makes sure that the person is entering into the agreement knowingly and intelligently. But it`s usually not a good idea for the prosecution because that person keeps speaking and speaking. It`s hard to tell what they`re relying on when they go to trial. So limited immunity is not always the favorite tool.

It tells me that they`re giving her a break and probably because they just want to put this case to rest. They want to -- they want to -- you know, (INAUDIBLE) the investigation to move on, is what it seems like to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have with us tonight Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped get Casey Anthony out of jail, who has since said right here on our broadcast that if he knew then what he knows now, after the 400 pages of documents that were released, he would not have bailed Casey out.

Your reaction tonight to this latest development, that evidence of a dead body in the trunk of the car has now been found.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Very sad, and my feelings for the grandparents are -- you cannot imagine how the grandparents are going to feel. I know that this afternoon, when I heard it, her mother, Casey`s mother, was en route to the house where Casey was with the -- with the family -- with Casey`s attorney. But George, Caylee`s grandfather, had not arrived yet. And I can only imagine that it`s going to just totally tear him up. It`s just a terrible thing.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, you`re the man who got her out of jail. She was in isolation for more than 35 days in jail. For all we know, she might have been on the verge of cracking. You have said, essentially admitted, that you made a mistake in getting her out of jail because thought she`d have a hot meal and a manicure and start talking, and she hasn`t.

PADILLA: Not a word. Not a word. She hasn`t uttered one word in the direction of, Let`s go find Caylee, Let`s look at this, Let`s do that, not one word.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, do you have a sense of remorse or regret or guilt that you got her out of the slammer, given everything that`s transpired, given everything that we know now, given that the whole key to this case lies in what is in her brain and that it might have been more pressure to keep her in jail to talk than to allow her to go home to a comfy bed and nice meals and the comfort of her parents?

PADILLA: Well, you know, you can go -- it can fall both ways. On the other hand, you know, she`s home now. What`s been done can`t be undone.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can`t it? Can`t it be undone? Can`t you revoke her bail?

PADILLA: Oh, yes, sure. But you can`t turn the clock back.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it can be undone.

PADILLA: Yes. You know, you can take her back to jail, and we have every right to now that the new circumstances have changed the terms of the bond.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, why don`t you?

PADILLA: Well, that`s my nephew, Tony Padilla`s, call, in Sacramento. He`s the one that -- he`s bail agent. He`s the one that`s going to make that call tonight sometime.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought -- oh, you mean make that decision.

PADILLA: Correct.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Not make that phone call, make that decision.

PADILLA: No, make...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I thought the buck stopped with you because you`re wearing the cowboy hat.

PADILLA: Well, yes, but he`s also the bail agent. I can sit here and say, Hey, I don`t want to be on the hook anymore, but it`s his call.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What are you going to tell him? What are you going to suggest? You`re the uncle.

PADILLA: He`s got to grow up. It`s time for him to make a decision like this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But in your heart, do you regret getting involved in this?

PADILLA: Yes. Yes, I do.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

PADILLA: It was obviously not the thing to do now that she -- because she didn`t talk. She didn`t say one word to anybody. I`ll tell you another thing. She didn`t say a word to me, she didn`t say a word to her mother or her dad or her brother.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely shocking. The phones obviously lighting up with these shocking bombshell developments. Mary in Maryland, your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. I have a question to the bounty hunter. Does he still think that Caylee is alive after all the results?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard?

PADILLA: No, I don`t think so. No. It would be -- I mean, you know, it could be -- right now, with the results from Tennessee, there -- you know, it could be another body, but let`s face it, on average, it ain`t going to be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) jumped up into the trunk, front paws, stuck his head in, backed back out, did the eye contact and moved to the right rear passenger side, rear fender, (INAUDIBLE) trunk, taillight area, and gave me a fine (ph) train (ph) on alert.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What does that mean?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He alerted to the odor of human decomposition.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony admitted to the FBI that when he first smelled his daughter`s car, he thought it was the odor of a body.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police officers spoke with the facility manager of the tow truck company that was holding Casey Anthony`s car, and he told cops that the smell coming from the car reminded him of the smell from another car where a man committed suicide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. More bombshells tonight, stunning word now that air samples reveal there was a decomposing human body, which means a dead body, inside the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. This is the mother of that gorgeous little toddler, Caylee, who has been missing for 10 weeks now. The news comes as authorities turn up the pressure on mother, Casey, offering her limited immunity in exchange for giving them the real story about where Caylee is.

But the biggest stunner, that evidence of a dead body, which dovetails, Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter for CNN affiliate WKMG, with what the tow truck driver said, with what Cindy, Casey`s mother, originally said, and with the cadaver dogs.

D`ONOFRIO: I mean, we`ve been waiting for this for a long time now because there`s been so much dispute over this. I mean, we`ve been talking about Cindy Anthony, and you know, her coming out and saying, Oh, no, it was rotten pizza in the trunk, that`s what the smell was from. And then just a couple weeks later, the sheriff`s office releases those 911 tapes and you hear a totally different story. You hear Cindy Anthony on the phone screaming, It smells like a dead body in this trunk. So we`ve been waiting now to hear what these results were going to be.

And now the University of Tennessee, which has a body farm there -- and they are experts at this -- they have returned these preliminary results. And you know, what they`re indicating is that there was a decomposing body in that trunk. Again, these are preliminary results. What I do understand from my sources close to the investigation is that they are going to try and do some more testing to solidify these results, and you know, dot their I`s and cross their T`s on all of this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do we have any idea when the DNA with the identity would come back to match up with these air samples? We`ve been waiting forever.

D`ONOFRIO: Right. Still waiting on that right now. They were sent out to the FBI. They`re processing those lab results. So you know, we`re waiting on pins and needles to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an overpowering smell (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At first glance, you thought this may be the smell of a body or decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a possibility, yes. I mean, it`s a possibility. I mean, maybe my daughter ran over something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time you saw Caylee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know for a fact it`s June 15.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the 15th, she told me at that time, I have not seen my daughter in 31 days.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Will Casey Anthony take the limited immunity deal and lead cops to her child now that the first forensic results, the very first, are in with bombshell results showing human decomposition -- i.e., a dead body -- in the trunk of her car. And we can tell you there is some breaking news just in. We hear now that Casey Anthony, who was supposed to go to her lawyer Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, has added another visit tomorrow.


So Renee Rockwell, is she hashing out a deal, do you think, with her attorney?

ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy -- not Nancy, but Jane -- I would think that that`s what`s going on. And don`t forget, they know a lot more than we know. They may have some test results. They may think that the child is dead but not necessarily know who killed the child. So I think the smartest move is the move she`s making, and that`s to go cut a deal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Doug Burns, with all the evidence coming in, with this hard evidence showing a dead body, why are they offering a deal? Why don`t they just go for the evidence they`ve got?

BURNS: Well, because I think, as you framed it out, Jane, I mean, there`s a huge distinction between a dead body, per se, and proof that somebody killed the person, as opposed to an accident. I think what`s really swirling around -- and I`m speculating -- is the notion that the prosecutors -- and I was one for nine years -- are comfortable enough that it might have been an accident that they`re willing to do this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They are saying that in the trunk of the car.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots. It smelled so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: To Tracy Sargent -- she`s here with her detection dog, Cinco, they`re both from Homeland Security.

Tracy, do cadaver dogs ever alert on food ever?

TRACY SARGENT, K-9 HANDLER: No, ma`am, they do not. That`s one of the training things we do with these dogs that any distraction we might find out there, they are trained also that they are only to alert to human remain scent.

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong, I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Bombshell developments tonight as the first, the very first forensic results come in in the Caylee Anthony disappearance.

The world appears to be caving in on Casey Anthony as demands intensify for her to come clean with the whole truth, that as forensic tests reveal air samples taken from Casey`s car show the presence of human decomposition which, of course, is a fancy way of saying a dead body.

Meanwhile, authorities dangle a carrot and a stick offering her limited immunity for giving them information that leads them to the little girl.

I am so delighted right now to be able to say Nancy Grace herself is on the phone with us.

Nancy, what do you make of all this?

GRACE: Well, I can`t say that I`m surprised in the least about today`s bombshell developments. We have suspected based on the circumstantial evidence all along that little Caylee is no longer alive.

But what is the astonishing news to me today is that there is a consideration of an immunity deal. Why? There`s no need for that. Let me remind everybody that not one but two independent and separate cadaver dogs back up the findings of the body farm, back up scientific evidence that there was a dead body in this trunk.

I mean, connect the dots, people. She leaves with her little girl. Her little girl is never seen again. She -- if you`ve read those 400 pages of documents tells people, hey, maybe one day I`ll get drunk and tell you what really happened to my little girl.

Now there`s scientific evidence there was a dead body in the trunk. Let`s add that in with the fact that she has lied through her teeth from the get- go to police and her own family.

This girl was out -- up and down a stripper pole, people, dating one guy after the next during the so-called search for her little girl. You give all that to a jury, you will get a murder one conviction.

And I ask the prosecutors in Florida do not give this girl immunity.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So why do you think they are?

GRACE: You know why? I really think they`re doing it from a sympathetic vantage in that they want closure for little Caylee. They want to be able to give the family a burial, to give them the end of the case.

I mean we`ve all heard of cases where the children were never found, which I think is really the most heartbreaking because the family never, never knows.

And anything this girl would say, are you kidding me? You`re going to give her immunity?

Renee Rockwell, Doug Burns, how can you look at the camera with a straight face? Give this girl immunity for what BS she may give the police to them what happened to the little girl?

I`m not buying her story it was an accident. If it was an accident, why didn`t she call 911 and get a paramedic to try to save the little girl`s life?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But, Nancy, it`s limited immunity, so what that means is they`re not going to give her transactional immunity, and say we`ll never charge you with the homicide.

What they`re going to do -- and I understand your point of view. I`ve been working with you a long time. But what I`m saying is, is they won`t use the words she says. They`ll reserve the right to make the homicide case, but they`re willing to bend a little to find the body.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And Doug, what if.

GRACE: Doug, I appreciate the tutorial from both of you.

ROCKWELL: But, Nancy, what if it`s.

GRACE: . but I understand limited and transactional use of immunity.

BURNS: I know you do. Right.

GRACE: But what I`m saying is I would not give her an inch. You let the camel`s nose in the tent, his tail would surely follow. I would not hurt the state`s case at all. And believe you me, put a tap on this girl`s cell phone.

BURNS: Right.

GRACE: . and her home phone, she`ll blab to somebody.

BURNS: But I`ll work right off your point which is that, you know, you have stood for victim`s rights for a long time. You need some closure for the family. That would be the only reason, as a prosecutor, that I would even consider giving any type of limited immunity so I could find the body for the family, as you said.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I know Renee wants to say something.

BURNS: I`m sorry.

ROCKWELL: I`m trying to say something, Miss Grace. What if she didn`t do it, Nancy? What if she`s covering up for some guy? Wouldn`t you want to know the truth? That`s why they`re doing it.

GRACE: Renee, Renee.

ROCKWELL: Nancy.

GRACE: I already know the truth. I just simply don`t know the MO. All right? This girl would sell anybody down the river. According to the evidence that we know so far she killed her little girl.

Based on what we know right now, I doubt very highly that she would go and get the needle, the Florida death penalty, and cover up for some guy. And believe me, he was one of many from what we are learning.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Nancy, you mentioned the death penalty. Florida is a death penalty state. And apparently they have executed women. They`re not shy about executing women, right?

GRACE: No. I don`t want to take away from the panel. I`ll let you go do your job, Jane Velez. And I`m just stunned at the possibility of even limited immunity.

But today, when I first read those scientific results, I don`t think that there was a dry -- dry eye in this house when we learned and we all suspected, but when we learned the truth.

I just hate it for the little girl`s grandparents. I just hate it so much for them.

But thank you, guys.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much, Nancy, for calling in.

And she makes such an amazing point about the hell that Cindy and George, the parents of Casey Anthony, and the grandparents of this gorgeous, adorable little girl must be going through.

And, you know, I want to read something that is believed to have come from Cindy. And there`s controversy because it was apparently posted on MySpace July 3rd. But listen to the heartbreak in this woman. This is the grandmother of this little missing child who, obviously, now there`s a lot more information that points to her being dead.

"My Caylee is missing. Current mood: distraught. This precious little angel from above gave me strength and unconditional love. Now she is gone, and I don`t know why. Jealousy has taken her away. Jealousy from the one person that should be thankful for all of the love and support given to her, a daughter comes to her mother for support when she is pregnant.

The mother says without hesitation, it will be OK. And it was. But then the lies and betrayal began. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning, and does not let her mother now speak to the baby that her mother raised.

Where did she go? Who is now watching out for the little angel?"

You know, Renee Rockwell and Doug Burns, you`ve been following this case. This is heartbreaking for this woman.

ROCKWELL: It is, but, Jane, I don`t know if -- these are my two cents. I don`t know if the grandparents didn`t somewhat just involve themselves too much and obstruct this investigation. That`s my opinion.

BURNS: Jane, I always thought that the grandparents were in a very tricky spot. And everybody said it and they were right, which is that if they know some parameters about what happened, they still have to protect their own daughter.

So they`ve been in a really tough spot.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s hard to lose your granddaughter and your daughter which is essentially what is happening to them.

The phone lines lit up. Ashley from Oklahoma, your question, ma`am.

ASHLEY, OKLAHOMA RESIDENT: Hi, Jane. My question is, if they`ve been holding these results for so long, why couldn`t they have kept her in jail? And can`t they take her back?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we`re going to go back to Leonard Padilla because he`s the one who came up with the bail. And again, as you hear this, as we ponder the heartbreak that this family is going through, well, in a way, perhaps this is their time with their daughter before they possibly lose her and she becomes incarcerated and faces more serious charges.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED GET CASEY ANTHONY OUT OF JAIL: If you`re asking me that, that`s a rationalization that a couple of my guys reached this afternoon, maybe it wasn`t all that bad.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From June 16th until July 15th, did you have any contact with Casey?

CINDY ANTHONY: Every day. Every day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you not tell the police that you were unable to get in contact with her for an extended period of time?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. There was a couple days where I didn`t get to speak to Casey. She had left me text messages or voice mail. There was contact every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Stunning, heart-wrenching news tonight, the first forensic results are in in the case of missing child Caylee Anthony. And air samples taken from the trunk of her mom Casey`s car reportedly reveal the presence of human decomposition, in other words, a dead body.

But, is it Caylee`s? And if so, where is she now?

Again, to Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter from CNN affiliate WKMG, why do you think it is that authorities revealed this information at this particular time? Couldn`t they have kept these results secret? And are they using it to pressure the mother, Casey?

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WKMG: I think that at this point the sheriff`s office can do whatever they want to do. They could possibly have those FBI results back on those hair samples and they`re just waiting for a specific time to release those.

You know, in investigations that I cover all the time, you see that different law enforcement agencies wait and they leak things or they release things periodically to possibly put pressure on the person that they`re investigating. And quite possibly that could be the case in this case.

I mean they`ve created quite a stir today by releasing this information, by talking about the immunity. I know through sources that this immunity deal has been on the table for quite some time, but this is the first time we`re really hearing about it. And a lot of people are really starting to talk about it.

So I think that in a way this really creates pressure on the Anthony family. It creates pressure on Jose Baez and it creates pressure on Casey Anthony to possibly talk.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, Jessica, for all we know, Casey is at home watching this coverage right now, because we heard while we were in the broadcast that she called for a request to see her lawyer tomorrow.

We know she watched herself while in jail. And it certainly makes sense that she`s tracking. So my question to the very patient psychologist Caryn Stark, who has been listening to all of this tonight is, do you think that the pressure will work?

Do you think that this woman who has shown such an ability to remain clammed up or tell lies will finally tell the truth?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Jane, let`s look at her personality. I really do think that this might work because it`s as though it`s up, the game is up for her. There`s no place else for her to go.

She`s a wonderful liar, a wonderful pathological liar. But if all this evidence is coming forward, she may feel backed into a corner. And this actually may do it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Doug Burns and Renee Rockwell -- and I`ll start with Renee this time -- is this really enough to back her up into a corner? These fumes have not been connected with the identity of any individual.

If this turns out to be all they have and they go to court with this, what would you do as defense attorney with a jar of air?

ROCKWELL: No, not just say to a jury that is not enough. If that`s all they have is air and a dog hitting on it -- what I think is going to move her more than anything is the fact that she has an attorney and the deal is on the table.

Now is her time to move while she might be able to cut some kind of deal if she`s innocent. And I`m talking about in the entire scenario. If someone else is involved and she can maybe extricate herself, now`s the time to move.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Doug Burns, OK, there`s a possibility -- obviously we`re talking hypothetically here. She`s not even considered a suspect in this case. She`s only been charged with child neglect and lying to investigators.

But, hypothetically, you could be talking about murder, you could be talking manslaughter, you could be talking about an accidental death. All of those would results in different charges. And the limited immunity offer would probably vary depending on what she says, right?

BURNS: Absolutely right. They want to give her an audience to come in and tell what she knows. They`ll agree they`re not going to use those words. I know I sound like a broken record. But they can still charge her with whatever gradation as you exactly set it out.

And you`re right, and that`s really not a bad way to go. I disagree with Nancy on that aspect of it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Michelle in Nebraska, your question, ma`am.

MICHELLE, NEBRASKA RESIDENT: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

MICHELLE: Thanks for taking my call. Why would any kind of immunity be considered? Based on these new results why isn`t the bail being revoked and placing her back in jail? Because basically what they`re doing is letting her off the hook just so she`ll give up the location of the little girl`s body.

It doesn`t make any sense.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped bail Casey out of jail, who is, I guess, a de facto bail expert.

Can the authorities -- let`s say your nephew decides, no, I`m going to leave her out. Can the authority say we`ve got some more serious evidence here, we`re going to yank that bail and we`re going to bring her back to jail?

PADILLA: Absolutely. There`s no doubt about that. And right now your experts are basically on the right track. The district attorney wants to take a shortcut, get closure on this, find out if there was an accident that, you know, that she panicked and was trying to be smart when she didn`t have to.

She compounded her problems. And the next thing is they`re offering her a limited immunity.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. You know what?

PADILLA: Now the other thing about this is bail can be pulled any time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We`re going to hold it to -- OK. We`ll discuss that in a moment.

PADILLA: Yes.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: To tonight`s case alert. Today marks the two-year search for missing Florida toddler, Trenton Duckett. Duckett vanishing August 2006, reported missing from his own bedroom at his Leesburg home.

At the time of his disappearance, little Trenton described as three feet tall, 30 pounds with brown hair and brown eyes.

If you have any information, please call crime line at 1-800-423-TIPS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: 911, what`s your emergency?

CINDY ANTHONY: I called a little bit ago. The deputy sheriff I found out my granddaughter has been taken. She has been missing for a month. Her mother finally admitted that she`s been missing.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What is.

CINDY ANTHONY: Get someone here now.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: OK. What is the address that you`re calling from?

CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Your daughter admitted that your -- the baby is where?

CINDY ANTHONY: The babysitter took her a month ago that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today but I can`t find my granddaughter.

And she just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Straight out to Caryn Stark, psychologist, in light of these disturbing developments about human decomposition, what do you make of Casey`s remarks on MySpace? "What is given can be taken away. Everyone lies, everyone dies."

STARK: Well, how interesting that she equated lying and dying. It makes absolutely no sense. That she believes that everyone lies, she`s talking about herself. And the dying is like a trail of a little bit of a clue.

It`s as though she`s giving us a clue to her inner thoughts about what`s going on.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Leonard Padilla, you`ve been out there in the neighborhood. What is the reaction and the mood as words filter out of this depressing result?

PADILLA: I came direct from the attorney`s office to the studio here, but my people that are on the security are now saying we`re going to have to do something even more to secure her safety, because there`s some type of a demonstration outside the house that people are talking about for Monday, and now the threats are starting to come in again that we were getting that had stopped last Saturday night.

So it`s a -- it`s a worrisome situation. Law enforcement is there. We`re there. But, you know, it`s a terrible problem for the parents also, because now they`re confronted with this, and having been around the parents for 10 days, I can only tell you this.

Cindy and George right now are thoroughly devastated. I mean, they are absolutely devastated.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, Leonard, I don`t think there`s any way that we can possibly put ourselves in their shoes and experience what hell they are going through, having it appears more likely to have lost a granddaughter and then facing the prospect of seeing their daughter quite possibly face justice.

What a horror story, and our hearts do go out to Cindy and George tonight.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../27/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE - Aired August 28, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET - PART 1/2
Hair Found in Car Trunk Reportedly Identified as Missing Toddler`s
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight, major bombshells as more disturbing forensic evidence comes back in the case that all of America has been tracking, the disappearance of that beautiful 3- year-old Florida girl named Caylee. She was last seen with her mother, Casey. Little Caylee has been missing for 10 long weeks.
Tonight, the case appears increasingly ghoulish and grim. The much- anticipated DNA results are finally in tonight and it is a bombshell. According to local affiliate WKMG, hair found in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk appears -- and I say, appears -- to be little Caylee`s and appears to show signs of human decomposition. And of, course that is a very bad sign. All indications now point to 3-year-old Caylee as quite possibly dead. This on the heels of air samples taken from that same car trunk that also confirmed human decomposition. Plus, cadaver dogs hit on Casey Anthony`s car. Investigators now set to hand over these DNA results to prosecutors.

The big question, will more criminal charges be next? And what do these results mean for that limited immunity deal now on the table? The state is reportedly giving Casey Anthony until next Tuesday to tell them the key information that would help them locate her little girl.

And is mom, Casey Anthony, heading straight back to jail? A California bounty hunter and bail bondsman say they`re close to revoking the hefty $50,000 that they put up to free Casey Anthony.

But tonight, the biggest question, the biggest one of all, still remains. What really happened to 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I actually went into the car to smell what the smell smelled like, and in my experience, the smell that I smelled inside that car was the smell of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fast-breaking developments right now, CNN affiliate WKMG reporting that DNA results are back from the FBI and all indications are that 3-year-old Caylee Anthony is dead. Hair found in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car now confirmed to be that of Caylee Anthony. And a bombshell tonight is the hair sample showed signs of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla told us that he wants to start the process of revoke her bond in light of the latest developments and threats he`s received in the last 24 hours.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: You can get off a bond any time you want. It`s not a problem. I mean, you have to have no reason. You don`t have to have cause or anything. It`s just, boom, You`re going back to jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for 3-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony. Bombshell! DNA results are in. The question, will more criminal charges be next?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After weeks of keeping a tight lid on DNA evidence in the desperate search for Caylee Anthony, the results are in and it`s heartbreaking, CNN affiliate WKMG now reporting that hair found in the trunk of mom, Casey Anthony`s, car show signs of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) jumped up into the trunk, front paws, stuck his head in. He alerted to the odor of human decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The hair confirmed to be that of little Caylee. This late-breaking bombshell, combined with cadaver dogs that also hit on the car and air samples confirming a dead body was in the trunk, all appear to lead to the same conclusion, that 3-year-old Caylee Anthony is most likely dead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy, did you want to say anything about the new developments?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Meanwhile, that California bounty hunter who believed he could get mom, Casey, to talk, now says he`s working to revoke her bond. Leonard Padilla says it could be just a matter of days before Casey Anthony heads straight back to jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does Casey know that this is a possibility, that this is going to happen?

PADILLA: Absolutely. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But how is she reacting to it?

PADILLA: She doesn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No reaction from Casey about going back to jail?

PADILLA: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. More bombshells in the Caylee case tonight. The shocking DNA results are finally back, and the news appears to be gut-wrenching. For the very latest on these stunning developments, let`s go straight out to Jessica D`Onofrio, reporter for CNN affiliate WKMG. Jessica, you are reporting some ominous results. Tell us what your sources are telling you tonight.

JESSICA D`ONOFRIO, WKMG: Well, Jane, it`s definitely not good. All indications point towards the fact that Caylee Anthony is most likely dead. Now, hair found in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car is likely that of her daughter, Caylee`s, but they haven`t completely ruled out the mom in that case. Now, we have confirmed that that hair sample pulled from the car did show signs of decomposition, but we want to be careful and let people know that there can be false positive results with this kind of testing.

But you know, you add all of that up with the cadaver dogs alerting to the back yard, two separate ones, and then you have cadaver dogs alerting to the smell of decomposition in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car, and then you add that, along with the air samples that were returned from the University of Tennessee showing signs of decomposition, that there was decomposing body in the trunk of that car, and it all adds up to no good.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It certainly does. We`re going to talk more about the forensics in just a moment. But more breaking news. Our producer, Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer on the scene in Orlando, Florida, at the Anthony home. I understand just in the last few minutes, there`s been a flurry of developments. Bring us up to date, Natisha.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Cindy Anthony just came out of the home a few minutes ago. She started hammering in these "No trespassing" signs. I`m not sure if you can see them behind me or not. But she started hammering in "No trespassing" signs on her lawn. She was also in the RV over here that Mr. Padilla has been in with his team. And she came out of that Reverend, and people asked her, Are you upset about Casey going back to jail? She said, It`s not happening. Casey`s not going back to jail.

When she was hammering in those signs, she was also giving a little bit of information, as well, too. She said if she was fearful for Casey being out of jail, she would not have Casey in her home. She said there was absolutely no odor in the car when it was towed on June 30, and possibly maybe a body was placed in the car after that. She said that she even went down to the tow yard today and spoke to the gentleman who gave the statement to police, who said that there was this odor, and he said that that -- he told her, anyway, that that smell did not start until a week after it had been at the tow yard.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But Natisha, I have to jump in here for a second because we all heard her on the 911 call saying, It smells like there`s a dead body in the damn car. And I think that`s almost an exact quote.

LANCE: She talked about that, too, Jane, and she said that she was just reacting. She said she didn`t know what she was smelling. And come to find out later, she said, it was the rotten pizza. Now, she said, despite all of these reports that are coming out with the DNA and the air testing results that came back yesterday, she still believes that Caylee is alive and people need to be out looking for her, even commenting on the presser that happened today with Captain Nieves, where he even said they`re still looking for a missing person and not a dead person.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Mark Williams, news director WNDB Newstalk, 1150, you have covered this from the very start. Obviously, we have compassion for Cindy. She is going through hell. It appears quite likely she`s lost a granddaughter, and of course, if her daughter goes to justice on this -- and we don`t know, she`s not charged in connection with the disappearance of her daughter -- she could lose her daughter, as well. So we have compassion for her.

But when she says there`s no smell in the car -- take us through the evidence that something untoward happened in that trunk.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the biggest thing, of course, is when they got the car, you know -- and we heard the audiotape of about the -- it smells like a damn dead body back there -- that`s number one. Number two, cadaver dogs hit on that car in the impound area when the police took that automobile. We have the tow truck operator saying that it smells like a body, there was a body in there, in his impound yard because just a week before, he had inventoried the car in which a man took his own life, which you know his body decomposed.

And this is just a sad state of affairs. Let me just go back to one thing. The information that Natisha just brought us is pretty -- is darn good information. Earlier today, the reason for the "No trespassing" signs is she got into her car, backed out of the garage, and the media rushed her while she was on her own private property, in her driveway. That`s why the "No trespassing" signs went out, because she does not like the media, all of a sudden.

Six weeks ago, she couldn`t -- she couldn`t find a camera she didn`t like. Now she just hates the media altogether. Again, last week, when the media crowded around, she dropped the F-bomb and told her son, Lee, to spray the media, to soak the media down with a hose.

Now, the other information, going into Mr. Padilla`s Reverend -- that`s just unconscionable. Where is she going with all this? And this is me just talking as kind of a journalist, looking at it as a -- from a vantage point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, being a journalist myself, who`s been on many of those stakeouts, I can certainly understand when you`re on the other side of it that you might feel persecuted or harassed when a huge group of people with cameras coming at you, can make you feel very intimidated.

But Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," the thing that really struck me is something she said much earlier today in response to a question involving the fact that the air samples came back yesterday and they showed signs of a decomposing body in the trunk. And she was asked about that and she said, There is no new development. Is she in denial?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, in my field, we call it "undoing." That`s when you notice something about another person that is so heinous, so undigestible, so difficult to comprehend that, in a flash, you know it`s true and then you quickly undo it as soon as you notice it.

So she says the body -- the car smells like there`s been a damn body in it, and then she blames the media for implying that her daughter might have killed her granddaughter. So that is undoing something that she already noticed. She denies, she disavows, she tells the truth, then she lies to herself and others.

Nonetheless, this must be a very difficult situation for her. and my thoughts and prayers really go out to the Anthony family at this difficult time.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We have so much breaking news to report on this story, it`s hard to know where to begin. We`re going to get through it all. We`re going to talk about the limited immunity. We`re going to talk about, and really dissect, these DNA results that are coming in as we speak.

But I also want to ask -- something Natisha just referred to, the mom, Cindy, is saying, My daughter, Casey, isn`t going anywhere. Well, let`s bring in the people who should know, Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter who helped get Casey Anthony out of jail with the help of his nephew, who we also have, Tony Padilla, the bail bondsman. Let`s bring both of these gentlemen up and let`s get the straight story.

Are you guys revoking her bail? Are you sending her back to jail? If so, when you are going do it?

PADILLA: Saturday.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Saturday?

PADILLA: Saturday. She`s going back to jail Saturday, only because she`s got appointments with her attorney in the meantime, and we don`t want to disrupt that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, wait a second. She`s been talking to her attorney. She could talk to her attorney in jail, Leonard.

PADILLA: Well, I know that, but I`m not going to let him have the excuse that, Oh, we had a very important meeting today and Leonard pulled the pin.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, why are you revoking her bail?

PADILLA: Just exactly what everybody`s talking about, the safety issue. Today, not only did Cindy have a problem with the reporters on the driveway, but one of my guys that was driving the young lady to the attorneys backed up. When we pulled forward, he hit a -- hit a cameraman. And we just cannot afford that. Plus, there`s threats coming in. And then there`s -- Monday morning, there`s this massive...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, but you know that sort of thing happens all the time. I mean, Britney Spears could tell you about, you know, running over the toes of...

PADILLA: Hey, I`m not Britney Spears and I`m not going to deal with that. I`m not going to deal with that. I want to put her back in jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you`re definitely not Britney Spears. But you just heard the mother, Cindy, tell the reporters, My daughter isn`t going anywhere. So have you told her what your plans are?

PADILLA: Sure. She knows.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, then why did she say that?

PADILLA: Well, she says a lot of things. She says her granddaughter`s not dead, and that`s total denial. I`m telling you, I`ve changed my mind 180 degrees. The little girl is deceased. I`m old- fashioned. I still believe in DNA. I still believe in air samples. And I don`t believe that somebody else put a body in the car and all of these dramatic theories, you know? I came out here thinking the little girl was alive, and I`ve gotten a hell of an education.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, you have. Well, you came out on your gut and your gut proved wrong.

PADILLA: Yes, it was wrong.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s bring in all the attorneys. We`ve got Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney and author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" We`ve got Peter Odom, another noted defense attorney, and our favorite prosecutor, Eleanor Dixon. The big question -- you`ve heard about this DNA evidence coming in. Is it enough for the medical examiner to say little Caylee is dead, Eleanor?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I think so. It`s just an important piece of the puzzle, Jane. You`ve got the DNA. You`ve got the air samples. You`ve got the cadaver dogs that hit. You`ve got so much -- the hair, especially, that links it to Caylee. I think they`ve got enough. And you can have a murder charge without having a body.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, let`s get the defense attorneys. Mickey?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know if there`s enough. I mean, it`s certainly damning, but you know, do we have her pulling a trigger, strangling somebody? You know, all we have is bits and piece of information that`s been leaked to us. We shouldn`t have this information. There`s something wrong with the fact there`s 400-some-odd pages of information about an active police investigation out there with the media just because the media asked for it.

And I got to go back to the bondsman for a second. That is unconscionable that they`ve taken her out and they`re going to put her back in because now they think maybe she`s guilty. That`s not what bail bondsmen do. You`re there to take people out, take the money, and if they say that they`re going to skip or not show up in court, and then you revoke the bond, but not just because you change your mind about their guilt.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and Leonard, your whole notion that you`re also putting her back in because of threats -- there were threats when she was in jail...

PADILLA: Right, but...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... when you bailed her out. And that`s why the parents were thinking of a safe house.

PADILLA: Yes. They`re totally, totally compounded now, and there`s a demonstration supposed to take place Monday morning and they`re talking about thousands of people. I don`t need that on my conscience if George comes out there and gets upset. And we`ve seen that he can get upset. The safest place right now for everybody, including the media, is the jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, don`t worry about the media, please. I mean, you know...

PADILLA: I`m not going to run over a media and get sued!

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... the audacity of you coming in and saying, Oh, we`re going to worry about the media, after you created this circus by taking her out of jail in the first place. It`s just mind-boggling!

PADILLA: The circus is created by what is happening. The fact that I believed that Caylee was alive was good because there was a lot of media. There was a lot of word out there about the reward and all that. There wasn`t anything wrong with it. There`s nothing wrong with the media right now.

However, when there`s a chance that somebody might get harmed at the demonstration Monday or because of the threats, then you take her back to jail and you reanalyze the whole situation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I`d like to get Peter Odom, defense attorney, in on this because I`ve handled many of those cases and been at many of those situations, and you don`t have worry about the reporters. They`re big boys and girls and they can handle themselves. Peter, do you buy what Leonard`s saying about his justifications for revoking the bail?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, with all due respect, no. I mean, Mr. Padilla, if you didn`t realize everything you needed to know about this case, you shouldn`t have put the money in and gotten her out in the first place. And to say that now it`s a safety issue -- well, that`s really not your decision. So no, I`m not impressed with what Mr. Padilla has to say.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to start with Anjali Swienton, president and CEO of Scilawforensics, because we want to get into the forensics. Let`s start with this possibility that this hair sample that has, in a preliminary fashion, been identified as Caylee`s hair. There`s also the off chance it could be Casey`s hair, even though, according to WKMG, that hair also shows signs of decomposition. Huh?

ANJALI SWIENTON, SCILAWFORENSICS, LTD.: Well, Jane, I haven`t seen the actual report. I`ve just heard I think what everybody else has heard, that the results are back. And if -- depending on what type of DNA testing was done, it could be that the hair is either Caylee`s or Casey`s. If mitochondrial testing was done, they would be the same. But if nuclear DNA testing was done, they would be able to uniquely identify it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. We`ll get to more of that in a second.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDMOTHER: ... that the baby- sitter took her a month ago, that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter`s been missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... inside the 400-plus page-turner the prosecution has against Casey Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of her close friends describe her as bipolar, a habitual liar. Her own mother calls her a sociopath.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She mentioned that she wished she hadn`t had Caylee because she`s young and she`s not able to do the type of things she likes to do, like go out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight`s bombshell developments in the Caylee case. DNA test results on the trunk of the car are now back, WKMG reporting that the hair sample found in the mom`s car trunk appears -- and we say, appears -- to belong to missing toddler Caylee. And they report it shows signs of decomposition. But is that enough for the medical examiner to declare the little girl dead?

Let`s talk to Anjali Swienton, president and CEO of Scilawforensics. Now, what about this possibility of a false positive? And I understand it`s like if you take a living person, pull their hair out and you get some skin and you put that in the trunk and the living person walks away and then you`d still have decomposition inside the trunk, right?

SWIENTON: That`s right, Jane. Biological material degrades over time, so any type of biological stain, even like a blood stain, that might have been made by a person that was alive, if there`s a long time in between the time the stain is deposited and the time it`s recovered and tested, that biological material is going to break down.

DNA testing itself can`t necessarily tell you whether the person was dead or alive at the time the stain was deposited, but there are some characteristics of hairs themselves that can be looked at to try to get those answers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you believe that there will be more charges against Casey, possibly murder charges?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you know, we certainly hope not. We are preparing for the worst and hoping for the best.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forensic investigators say they`ve found chemical evidence of human decomposition in the trunk of a car linked to Casey Anthony. And a law enforcement source close to the investigation also says the evidence may be the last piece they need to solve the mystery of Caylee`s disappearance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Stunning developments. Yes, local CNN affiliate WKMG says the DNA results show it appears to be Caylee`s hair in the car trunk, and that station also reporting the hair showed signs of decomposition, which is certainly ominous. But they also add this caveat, that there`s the possibility that it might be mom`s, Casey`s, hair.

Please clarify that for us, Jessica, because unless Casey pulled a chunk out of the head of her hair with skin attached and put that in the trunk and then walked away, how would you have Casey`s hair, plus signs of decomposition?

D`ONOFRIO: I mean, that`s a -- that`s a very good question, Jane. So all of this information -- when we talk about it being likely, you have to add up everything, all of the pieces of the puzzle, all of the -- the idea that this hair came back now, it shows signs of decomposition, right? Then you`ve got the cadaver dogs alerting to the trunk, alerting to the back yard. And then you have these air samples coming back, showing signs of decomposition in the trunk. And all of that added together adds up to no good.

Now, we have some issues here, of course, with these false positive results, and also not being able to rule out that it could be the DNA of the mother. Still all of this is still not exactly firm, but it`s all adding up to a very grim ending to this child.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, seemingly, didn`t want this child from the beginning. One of her friends told investigators that even, recently, she talked a lot about the fact that it was -- life was sort of a drag having this kid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s a friend by the name of Ryan. One day he got a call, or at least talked to Cindy Anthony, Casey`s mother, who said, stay away from her. She`s a psychopath.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED BAIL CASEY ANTHONY OUR OF JAIL: She`s unconcerned, not because she`s a wacko, but because she knows exactly where her child.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Court documents also quote one of Anthony`s friends as saying, "I think something accidentally happened. Casey freaked out. I don`t know how she solved that problem but then created this story in her head."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re actually grilling her really hard saying, look, it`s one of two things. You either killed this little girl or something bad happened to her and you`re hiding it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Bombshell developments to the case of missing toddler Caylee Anthony.

In case you are just joining us, CNN can now confirm the DNA test results from the trunk of the car used by the toddler`s mom are now finally in. Our local affiliate in Orlando reporting that hair appears to belong to little Caylee and they also report that hair showed signs of decomposition. Making it sadly, increasingly likely, this little girl is dead.

So many developments. We`ve got breaking news now out of Orlando, Florida. We have Natisha Lance, a NANCY GRACE producer who is at the Anthony home where there`s been a flurry of activity and a lot of attention.

Natisha, bring us up to date.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Cindy Anthony was here, as I said, mentioned earlier, talking about the note -- putting the no trespassing sign.

And another thing that she mentioned, Jane, that I didn`t mention before is that she does not talk to Casey about the case. She says that she tells Casey how much she loves her. They talk about how much they miss Caylee and they talk about all the madness that is going on out here.

But she does not talk to her about the case which is something that Leonard Padilla had mentioned as well earlier before, too, that she has not spoken to him about anything. She has not spoken to her family about anything, but is only speaking to her attorney, Jose Baez.

Another interesting thing that she said, which Leonard Padilla mentioned, is that Cindy says a lot of stuff. Well, Cindy said that Leonard Padilla says a lot of stuff in terms of Casey going back to jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it appears that there`s a rift there now between Leonard Padilla and Cindy Anthony, which I don`t think is very surprising.

Meantime, the phone lines have lit up. Everybody wanting to ask questions and comment.

Lauren, you`ve been quite patient from Utah. Your question, ma`am.

LAUREN, UTAH RESIDENT: Hi, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi.

LAUREN: You`re awesome.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thanks.

LAUREN: I`m just curious. Do you think, like, unconsciously, Casey was interviewing someone to help her? And do you think this police officer will take a poly?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Very interesting.

Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, of course, one of the shocking developments of the past week is that a deputy who was still on probation resigned from the very same sheriff`s department investigated the Caylee Anthony disappearance because it turned out he had allegedly had a relationship with Casey, the mom, and lied about it.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": If Lauren is saying, unconsciously, was she interviewing someone to get rid of the child? Is that what Lauren was saying?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I don`t know. We have to kind of -- Lauren, are you still there?

OK, well, let`s assume that that`s sort of what she`s saying. I mean she`s saying - she`s trying to understand the role that this officer might have played, if any.

MARSHALL: Well, I can say a couple of things about that. One is that, if your child dies accidentally, there is going to be a period of mourning where you cannot leave the house. You cannot get out of bed. You cannot talk to people.

You`re in such serious distress and one of the ways we know whether or not someone has perpetrated a homicide is after the victim is deceased there is a relief phase where they are so glad that that other person is gone that they go out and party.

Remember the minister`s wife last year that she shot her husband in the back and then she took her kids on vacation? Because there was actually some joy. Maybe -- maybe the phrase dancing on the other person`s grave comes from that.

I mean I`m not saying this is about Casey specifically. But that`s one way to think about homicide versus an accidental death.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s interesting and, of course, it`s important to remind our viewers that Casey is not considered a suspect in her daughter`s disappearance. At this point she is charged with child neglect and lying to investigators.

And, of course, we remind our viewers that she has pleaded not guilty to those charges and her attorney says she is innocent and deserves the presumption of innocence.

You know what`s really fascinating about all this is that there is a very good possibility since Casey watched her own coverage in jail that she is watching tonight.

I want to ask the attorneys, A, do you think that she is mulling over what her options are as this new DNA evidence comes in? Is she doing the math in her head, Eleanor Dixon? And if so, if Casey is watching, what are you telling her? What would you tell her?

Tell her what you want to tell her tonight, because there`s a limited immunity deal on the table.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: I know I would say go ahead, give it up. Tell what you know. It`s important for you, it`s important for your family. It`s important for people to have some closure. And then whatever happens from the statement happens. But she`s got that chance with the limited immunity.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mickey Sherman, is the clock ticking for her? Because the limited immunity that prosecutors or the state have offered her reportedly runs out on Tuesday.

But meantime, they`re still looking for Caylee. If they find her then that deal`s off.

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": And there`s no obligation on their part to even extend the deal or even to honor it, frankly.

But what she should be doing is telling her lawyer what`s happening. Not just spinning some kind of a BS story and not keeping silent but at least share the truth with her lawyer and let her lawyer advise her of what roads to go down or what`s the best way to approach it.

Not to lie. Not to cover anything up but at least let the lawyer know what`s going on and let him make the call for her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Peter Odom, talk to her as if she is watching because it is a very good possibility that she is.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I`m talking to her about how these facts are not looking good for her and I`m talking to her about getting the broadest possible immunity to get the most possible protection should the worst happen and the state is going to be very, very motivated to give that broader immunity because they can`t come up with the evidence to charge her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you know, Peter, she has spent hours upon hours upon hours in her lawyer`s office, so if she`s not telling which is -- what appears to be the case, at least from what we know, what are they talking about?

ODOM: Well, she might be telling. And Baez has no obligation to tell the public what she`s saying, because that`s privileged, as it should be. But I would be encouraging her to protect herself as best she can, as these facts unfold against her as they are doing every day.
NANCY GRACE - Aired August 28, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET - PART 2/2
Hair Found in Car Trunk Reportedly Identified as Missing Toddler`s
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Elizabeth from Texas, your question, ma`am?

ELIZABETH, TEXAS RESIDENT: Yes, Jane, you do a fabulous job. Would you ask the lawyers to explain the limited immunity? If she leads them to the body and then they later find evidence that she murdered the child or desecrated the corpse, or some other felony, how will that affect her future prosecution?

Can she, then, no longer be charged with murder because she led them to the body that she murdered?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s give that to the prosecutor, Eleanor Dixon.

DIXON: Yes, she could still be prosecuted for that, because, with the limited immunity, they can`t use her statement but they can use things they find derived from that statement. So she could still be charged with the murder.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to ask all of the attorneys -- Nancy Grace, we were delighted to have her on the show last night, calling in. And she said to the state, pull that immunity deal now. You don`t need it. You`ve got enough evidence. Let`s go after this young woman.

What do you say, Eleanor, to that suggestion? You`re a prosecutor.

DIXON: Well, yes, I don`t like those immunity deals. We only use them if we really, really have to and I agree with Nancy, we don`t have to in this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m sure that the defense attorneys might disagree. What do you think?

ODOM: Well, certainly if the state had enough evidence to charge her with anything other than child neglect and lying to the police, they would have. They`re in a desperate situation. That`s why they put immunity on the table.

And they`re thinking long and hard right now about giving even broader immunity that would protect her even if they found a body that gave her incriminating evidence.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Broader immunity? Mickey Sherman, broader immunity?

SHERMAN: Right, you know, it`s like in the movie "The Departed" when Jack Nicholson said, if you have evidence against me you would have already arrested me. If you could have, you would have.

And that`s what`s going on here. They`re keeping this stone wall, and granted, there was more evidence now that the child was killed or murdered but they still don`t have any hard proof that she is the one who did the murdering.

I mean, you go back to that Bobby Duress case in Texas. That guy was found not guilty even though he admitted that he chopped up his neighbor and threw him in the bay but he told the jury that, well, they had an argument and he was killed by accident.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, he was very rich.

SHERMAN: You never know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: He had the high-powered defense team.

We`ll talk more about that and the blood stain -- is it a blood stain? It`s some kind of stain, as we go to break.

A special happy 48th birthday to Joann from Trenton, New Jersey. There she is with our very own Nancy Grace.

Happy birthday, Joann.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On July 2nd, more than two weeks after Caylee Anthony was last seen, and two weeks before Casey Anthony reported the little girl missing, Bobby Lee Williams gave Casey Anthony a tattoo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get any sense whatsoever she was looking for a child, who`s concerned about her child, stressed out about anything?

BOBBY LEE WILLIAMS, FRIEND: No, not at all. She was saying something about a new boyfriend that was living in New York or something, living with some parents.

The subject the child never even came up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Stunning developments tonight that point to a very grim conclusion in a case that has transfixed the nation. Where does the case of the missing toddler of Caylee Anthony go from here now that the DNA results, CNN can confirm this, are in. And CNN Orlando affiliate is reporting the hair seems to belong to Caylee and show signs of decomposition.

What is the next shoe to drop?

Well, according to Leonard Padilla, the bounty hunter, who got Casey out of jail, it`s that is going back. So we have him and we have his nephew Tony Padilla, who is the bail bondsman, with us tonight.

Tony, how does this process work? And you also heard Casey`s mom, Cindy, say she`s not going back. So can she stop it?

TONY PADILLA, BAILED TOT MOM OUT OF JAIL, NOW CONSIDERING REVOKING HER BOND: Well, at this point, really, she has no impact as to what we decide what -- that we`re going to do.

What everybody`s overlooking here is that Leonard is the only person that stepped up, paid the $50,000 and he`s the only person that -- he`s the guarantor on the bond. And people don`t realize this, this happens quite often. It doesn`t happen all of the time like the defense attorney said.

But it does happen often where maybe the guarantor, the bond feels that the person is a flight risk, maybe they`re being threatened or things like that, and they do ask the bondsman to surrender the defendant back into custody and that is the case here.

Leonard is the guarantor. He has every right to tell me, Tony, I want her back in custody, and basically, I have to follow through on that. Until somebody steps up and is willing to take on the responsibility, the $500,000, Leonard has every right to tell me I want her back in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh that`s an interesting point. Somebody else could come forward and say, hey, I`m going to put up the $50,000 for the 10 percent of the bond.

Leonard, is there a rift between you and Cindy?

L. PADILLA: No, no. And I`ll tell you something else. She did not go into that RV to -- Rob, Dick and Bodine were in there and I was just leaving when she walked in. It wasn`t that she went in there, you know, secretively or anything like that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So.

L. PADILLA: She had some discussions that she wanted to do with the boys while I was leaving so.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You are guys fighting? It`s a simple question.

L. PADILLA: No. No. No. We`re discussing the situation, as I see it, and then.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Can she convince you not to send her daughter back to jail?

L. PADILLA: Absolutely not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Really?

L. PADILLA: Absolutely.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wow. Well, Cindy, if you`re listening, you heard it here first.

The phone lines again, are Rose Marie from Arkansas, your question, ma`am?

ROSE MARIE, ARKANSAS RESIDENT: Yes, my question is, if Casey Anthony has told Jose Baez the truth, he has an obligation to go to the police (INAUDIBLE) maybe or the truth and is going to protect her?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK, you`re breaking up. But I want to go to Vince Velasquez, homicide detective who`s been very patient.

It appears that the caller is saying, if the attorney for Casey knows the truth and it somehow nefarious and the clock is ticking. There`s -- God forbid, but it looks quite increasingly likely that there could be a dead body out there. Does he have any obligation at all to go to police? I mean he`s her attorney.

VINCE VELASQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: No, none whatsoever, Jane. He is going to work with her. And this immunity deal is, as Peter Odom said, is what he`s trying to work right through. He has no obligation to tell us that unless there`s -- the risk to the general public.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, put yourself inside of Casey Anthony`s head. What is going to make her tell the truth? Staying out? Going to jail? Talking with her lawyer? Talking with her mother? What?

MARSHALL: Jane, she has shown a severe -- a total incapacity to grasp the severity of the situation. She has not flinched. She has shown no sign of distress. So we`re going to discover something very important about her lying in the upcoming days.

Is she the type of pathological liar who lies because she cares about nobody but herself but when it comes time to save herself, she can tell the truth? Or, as I suspect, is she not fit to tell the truth at all because she has no sense of anxiety about the situation or the predicament in which she finds herself?

So even -- you know how some people sit on death row for 20 years and then they still insist that hey didn`t commit the crime and they insist on it in the face -- even though there`s no external incentive to lie anymore?

Is she that kind of pathological liar? We`re going to really find out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Mark Williams, news director, the next big piece of evidence that could come in is this stain, this mystery stain in the trunk, if it`s blood. What do we know when it`s coming in and what it might be?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, you know, Jane, as you know Orange County Sheriff`s Office investigators are keeping everything close to the vest. No word as to when the results will come in. And they have no obligation to tell the media or any of us when those results do come in.

And let me just backtrack just a second. You know we talked about Casey Anthony going to her attorney today. Apparently, there`s a lot of tension inside of the Anthony household right now. You can cut that tension with a knife.

She`s going to the attorney`s office just to -- as a pressure relief valve down there. Don`t know if she`s talking to Attorney Baez about anything but at least it gets her out of house during the day.

She left at 10:13, was back around 4:15. Has another appointment scheduled for tomorrow.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh boy, so you`re saying -- wait, Mickey Sherman, does a client ever come to your office and watch cartoons because they just want to get out of house? Because they`re under house confinement?

SHERMAN: No, it -- that makes no sense at all. God only knows what`s going on. That`s a lot of time to spend with your client to try and get them to tell you what`s going on. But I got to tell you. I still got to go back to the bondsman. It just bothers me that at somebody`s whim they can put -- lock them back up in jail.

As the younger Mr. Padilla said, you can lock somebody up, you can revoke their bond, if you have reason to believe that they`re going to show up in court. Is that what the older Mr. Padilla has to say?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But, you know, I understand what you`re saying, but couldn`t it be possible if she goes back to jail that she might see -- look around her and say, I better take that deal, I`ve got until Tuesday.

SHERMAN: That`s not -- that`s not the business of a bail bondsman or a bounty hunter. That`s the police`s business.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

More activity outside the Anthony home in Orlando. Let`s go to CNN producer -- NANCY GRACE producer, Natisha Lance, for the very latest.

LANCE: Tim Miller actually was (INAUDIBLE) who just left the home a few minutes ago. Now he just came down here and he is supposed to be helping out with the search. He`s meeting with investigators tomorrow morning and then will start his search tomorrow afternoon.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Vince Velazquez, homicide detective, if had you her in a room, what would you tell Casey in 20 seconds to get her to open up?

VELASQUEZ: I would tell her to tell the truth. Now is the time. Enough playing around. There`s too many -- too many people involved and there`s too many emotions, too many resources involved, and this family -- and not just her, but America needs some closure on this.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, all of America. That`s a very good point, Vince. All of America needs some closure. We`re all going through -- this is heart wrenching for all of us.

Tonight, let`s stop to remember Air Force Staff Sergeant Travis Griffin, 28, from Dover, Delaware, killed in Iraq. On his fourth tour -- fourth tour in Iraq and seventh tour in the Middle East. He was helping train Iraqi police officers. Awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart.

He traveled the world with his military family. Loved guitar and making others laugh. He leaves behind mom, Christine, stepdad Donald, father Larry, two brothers, widow, Crissa, and a 5-year-old son Elijah.

Travis Griffin, an American hero.

Thanks to all of our guests for their insight and thanks to you at home for tracking this very important case with us.

A special good night from Nicholas and Sara from Atco, New Jersey. And we`re going to see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp, Eastern. You know there are going to be new developments by them.

Meantime have a terrific and a safe evening.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../28/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

Anthony Family Members Served With Subpoenas

Aired August 29, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. More major bombshells as disturbing forensic evidence comes back in the case that has all of America riveted, the disappearance of that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee. She was last seen with her mother, Casey. Little Caylee has been missing for 10 long weeks.
Fast-breaking developments tonight, word coming in right now that a huge development in this case might happen during our show tonight. Meantime, there is mounting evidence that 3-year-old Caylee is likely dead. In the last hours, grandmother, Cindy, grandfather, George, and a neighbor are all served with subpoenas to appear as witnesses should there be a trial. This on the heels of disturbing reports from CNN affiliate WKMG that hair found in Casey Anthony`s car trunk appears to be little Caylee`s and appears to show signs of human decomposition. If proven to be 100 percent accurate, that stunning bombshell backs up air sample evidence that shows human decay, and cadaver dogs that hit on Casey Anthony`s car.

It`s a case that gets more bizarre by the minute. That bounty hunter who told us last night on this show that Casey Anthony`s bail would be revoked tonight says Casey Anthony will stay free, at least for now. We will grill him about his change of heart. Defense attorney Jose Baez says security issues have been worked out after that bounty hunter complained about death threats and protests.

But the big question tonight, will Casey Anthony take that limited immunity deal? The clock is ticking. She only has until Tuesday at 9:00 AM to tell investigators how to help locate her little girl. Tonight, there is still no sign of 3-year-old Caylee Anthony. Where, oh, where is this innocent little child?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony is now not going back to jail. The bounty hunter who helped bail Casey Anthony out of jail has changed his mind. First Leonard Padilla said he wanted to revoke her $500,000 bail, put her back behind bars. Says he won`t.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: We went to the attorney`s office, and he says, What can I do to prevent her going back to jail right now on a bail revocation? I said, Well, there`s about a half a dozen security and safety situations. So he read the list, and he said that he could comply with them and get it done immediately. And I said, Well, if you do that, she don`t go back to jail tomorrow.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: She`s not dead. No one`s found her yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With new evidence confirming traces of human decomposition in Casey Anthony`s car, some people, like bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, are finding this impossible to believe.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car was not my granddaughter!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. And remember, Nancy Grace back live on Monday, and she will have all the latest breaking developments in this case. But right now, more bombshells in the desperate search for 3-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony now not going back to jail. The bounty hunter who was going to revoke her bond basically pulled a 180 today, changed his mind, was going to put her back in jail, now not so.

PADILLA: I will put her back in jail.

Being out of jail is the big thing.

You can take her back to jail.

She said if she got out, she wanted to go find her daughter.

Not a word, not a word.

She`s sitting there at home. She hasn`t uttered one word and she says (INAUDIBLE)

She didn`t say a word to me. She didn`t say a word to her mother or her dad.

I believe the baby is alive.

The little girl is deceased.

I believe she passed it off to one of her friends.

I don`t believe that somebody else put a body in the car.

And I`m still hoping that the little girl is alive.

I don`t think she`s alive anymore, no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still estimate it will take you a week to get her back?

PADILLA: A week from today.

The little girl is deceased.

I don`t think the little baby`s dead.

I`ve changed my mind 180 degrees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Padilla has agreed not to surrender the bond. He`s going to stick to his word that he gave to me. I do believe...

PADILLA: I never gave you a word that I broke.

Bail can be pulled any time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He never broke his word because she`s still out.

PADILLA: I came out here thinking the little girl was alive, and I`ve gotten a hell of an education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You sure have. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. So many developments flooding in -- subpoenas handed down, fights breaking out in front of the Anthony home, protests reportedly being planned. And there`s the bombshell DNA evidence that points to human decomposition.

For the very latest, let`s go straight out to Mark Williams, news director WNDB Newstalk 1150. Mark, you`re tracking this case very closely. What is the very latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Jane, hour by hour, everything seems to change in this. But the big thing, of course, this morning -- - that happened this morning was Casey Anthony is not going back to jail any time soon. The bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, and Casey`s attorney, the - - Jose Baez, met this morning, Mr. Padilla, of course, escorting Casey Anthony to the attorney`s office. They spoke a little bit. They came out just before noontime, and it looked like it was a love fest out there due to the fact that they both held an impromptu news conference shortly before 12:00 noon.

Now, if that`s not enough to whet your appetite, George Anthony blew his stack today at two gentlemen from nearby Castleberry (ph) who decided to set up on his front lawn. And it`s just a little piece of ground between the sidewalk and the street. Saw the videotape a short time ago. George comes out and says, You`re on my property, and gets a little angry with these folks -- as a matter of fact, not a little angry, a lot angry -- and starts tossing their equipment that they had set up, basically, out to the street. A gentleman, his neighbor, came over, calmed him down, and he went on about his way.

And I`ll tell you, hour by hour, I mean, this is -- this is the biggest soap opera I`ve ever taken part in.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It certainly looks like that. And the kettle is boiling more and more with every passing moment. Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, you are outside that very home, the Orlando, Florida, home of the Anthonys. I understand there are protests going on and there is a flurry of activity. Bring us up to date.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Jane. A protest did start not too long before we went to air. Cindy Anthony did exchange words. You can actually see some of the protesters behind me here, holding up signs saying that Casey is a murderer. They think that Casey should go back to jail. They also wrote on the back of cars, indicating that they think that Casey murdered her daughter and that she should go back to jail.

Now, Cindy Anthony did exchange some words from one of the protesters. Her name was Kitty (ph). And she said she`s very upset. Cindy Anthony made a comment a few days ago about the media being parasites and feeding on this story. However, Kitty took this personally, thinking that this was something against her, and she says they have done nothing but try to support this family and try to pray for them. However, they feel at this point, they can`t support them because they don`t believe that Casey is telling the truth and that her daughter is, in fact, dead.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, this woman, Kitty or whatever her name is, is she a member of the media that she should take offense to something Cindy said about the media?

LANCE: No, she`s not a member of the media. She is a concerned citizen. And most of these people who are out here are not people who live in this neighborhood, but they live all over the Orlando area, who have come in. They met, apparently, on some type of blog site, got together and wanted to voice their concerns about this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Are you kidding me? I mean, who are these people? Get a life! I can understand if you`re going to go out there and search for the little girl. That`s one thing. I applaud you. I say go ahead. But to stand out there and protest in front of this family -- please let me remind you that Cindy Anthony is a grandmother who does not have her precious little granddaughter at this time. Ditto for George. He`s the grandfather. And the brother of Casey, Lee, is an uncle missing his niece. I mean, where is the compassion for these people who are in this pressure cooker, and understandably, I think, are flipping out at this moment?

And of course, we do have to remember at this moment that Casey is not charged with murder. She`s only charged with child neglect and she is also charged with lying to investigators. And she has pleaded innocent. But I just can`t get over this whole notion.

Mark Williams, I want to go back to you because you`ve been covering this. You`ve been on this story from the very beginning -- that these people feel the need to go to the home of these people -- and they`re not reporters who are on the clock working, they`re not investigators who are trying to find this child, they are simply kind of looky-lous and people who feel that they`ve got to give their opinion on this.

WILLIAMS: Yes, these people remind me of people that show up after floods or huge fires. They just want to gawk. They just want to be part of the action. This protest tonight, from what we understand, was organized through one of those social networking pages. It sounds like it`s a Craigslist sort of deal. And apparently, it originated just south of here in our neighboring county, in Osceola County, and it started from there with people looking for rides to go up to the Anthony family household tonight. You know, it just boggles my mind that people would even do this. And boy, you hit it on the head.

The sheriff`s department still believing that they have a missing person in Caylee Anthony, and Casey is innocent until proven guilty. I mean, she has just the two charges. No murder charges have been brought against her, despite the fact that tests have come back indicating that there`s been a decomposing body in the trunk of her car.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it certainly looks bad for little Caylee, but that should be a cause for grief, not a cause for rage. These remind me of the people who, you know, sit next to the guillotine, saying, The guillotine, the guillotine! I mean, it`s just -- it`s just -- psychologically, it just -- it blows my mind.

And you know, the man who some say is responsible for all of this -- and I`ll give him a chance to defend himself, maybe he is, maybe he isn`t - - is here with us tonight, the very brave Leonard Padilla -- because we have been really grilling you every single night. You`re the bounty hunter who helped get Casey Anthony out of jail.

Last night on our show, you said you were going to send her back to jail on Saturday. Then we all went to sleep and we woke up this morning and it`s a totally different story. In fact, we have a collage of your contradictions we want to play for you right now before you respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PADILLA: I`m going to put her back in jail.

Getting out of jail is the big thing.

You can take her back to jail.

She said if she got out, she wanted to go find her daughter.

Not a word, not a word.

She`s sitting there at home.

She hasn`t uttered one word.

And she says, Hey, here`s who has the baby.

She didn`t say a word to me. She didn`t say a word to her mother or her dad.

I believe the baby`s alive.

The little girl is deceased.

I believe she passed it off to one of her friends.

I don`t believe that somebody else put a body in the car.

I`m still hoping that the little girl is alive.

I don`t think she`s alive anymore, no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still estimate it will take you a week to get her back?

PADILLA: A week from today.

The little girl is deceased.

I don`t think the little baby`s dead.

I`ve changed my mind 180 degrees.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Padilla has agreed not to surrender the bond. He`s going to stick to his word that he gave to me.

PADILLA: I never gave you a word that I broke.

Bail can be pulled any time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He never broke his word because she`s still out.

PADILLA: I came out here thinking the little girl was alive, and I`ve gotten a hell of an education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a very tragic case, but you are providing some comic relief, Leonard Padilla. What is going on with you?

PADILLA: Practicing to run for president with all the flip-flops. Is that what you want to hear?

(LAUGHTER)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to know why you told us last night that she was going back to jail on Saturday, and this morning we wake up and we hear, Uh-huh.

PADILLA: Well, when I went to the lawyer`s office with the other fellows to deliver her, as a routine every day, he asked me into his office and he says, Why are you surrendering her? And I told her (SIC), I says, The safety situation out there and the security problems that we`re having is unbearable, and I don`t want her to get hurt. I don`t want her parents to get hurt. The threats are just inundating us since the air samples from Tennessee and the DNA came in, and it`s just going to erupt. And by Monday, it`s going to be worse than that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know...

PADILLA: He assured me that our concerns would be addressed and that he would take care of it and that everything would be corrected.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it doesn`t really make sense. How is the attorney for Casey Anthony going to have control over protests out on a public sidewalk? And are you contributing to the problem by talking constantly about how you`re afraid of these protests, basically, almost like issuing an invitation to people, Hey, come on down and protest?

PADILLA: No, they were on -- as Mark stated, they started out on some of these lists that promote these kind of things. And then the one tonight, as he said, didn`t even start here locally. It started out of county. We started noticing it two days ago, building. The first day that the Tennessee results came out, it started building momentum. And then the one that`s coming up Monday is even bigger. And boy, we didn`t say anything publicly about what our concerns were.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Leonard, are you having any kind of competitive competition with Tim Miller of Equusearch, who is down there? Because I heard you were concerned about whether you were going to have control over who was coming in and out of the house.

PADILLA: We were concerned about people that were driving up to the house, and we didn`t know who they were. And originally, there was some kind of an arrangement where -- in other words, if somebody was coming, we would be -- you know, we would be told. We`ve checked pizzas. We`ve checked gift deliveries and things of that nature that -- the pizzas were not ordered by the family.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, let`s forget about the pizzas. I wanted to know why you said she was going to jail on Saturday and now you`re, like, Never mind.

PADILLA: At that time, she was going to jail. What, I can`t change my mind? Only women can do that?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You can change your mind once or twice, but as you saw with that...

PADILLA: Once. I changed my mind once.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes. OK. Well, we have video evidence to the contrary of that.

PADILLA: On her going to jail, I changed my mind once.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now let me bring in Tim Miller, who is the head of Texas Equusearch, who says he is going to be searching for little Caylee. He, of course, very famous. This is the man who organized searches for Natalee Holloway when that young lady disappeared in Aruba.

Thank you for joining us tonight, Tim.

TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Thank you.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand that you have actually spent hours with the family, which is why I asked Leonard, since they haven`t been talking to Leonard, whet her he was maybe a little jealous of the fact that you`ve gotten the access you`ve gotten. Give us a sense of what`s going on inside the home. And we see what`s going on outside. It`s chaos out there. But inside the home, are they crying? Are they calm? What is the mood?

MILLER: You know what? I think everybody is basically in shock. We spent a lot of time with Cindy. We haven`t asked any questions about the search. We just let them know that what we`re going to be doing is going to be very difficult for them. You know, we`re still holding onto that hope that there`s going to be a miracle out there. We`ve seen many, many miracles after 900-plus searches and many of them came back safely that we gave up on. We have to remember Elizabeth Smart. That was a miracle.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: But don`t you...

MILLER: And we also...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Don`t you generally, as a rule, search for deceased bodies? Is that your track record?

MILLER: No. You know what? We have returned nearly 300 people home alive. Many would have been dead. I`ve actually myself handed three different children back to their parents that were Amber Alerts. So you know what? We`re going to start this search. We`re going to eliminate areas. And if something has happened to Caylee, you know, it`s very, very important that she be found. You know, we have recovered the remains of 84 people, and many of them would have never been recovered. So...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I understand the you`re going to be using drones and aerial. You`re going to go from the air and look down at these large swathes -- large areas of land and take still photos of them and try to create grids where then you can see if there is any kind of a body or any kind of a living person in those areas.

MILLER: Well, you`re correct. I mean, we`re going to be using horses and four-wheelers and ground searches. We`ve got two different areas. We`re going to use a boat with sidescan sonar. We`ve had tremendous amount of success with that drone airplane. We`ve actually recovered the remains of five people. And I guarantee you, three of them would not have been recovered.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right...

MILLER: And you know what? We`ve got a lot of resources and -- but we`re just hoping that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I understand about 25 people. You`ve got a whole big team coming in. So hang in right there. We`re going to get back to you in a second.

We have a reminder that on Monday, Nancy Grace herself back live and she`s going to bring you all the fast-breaking developments in the search for 3-year-old Caylee Anthony. We`re going to be right back with more on this case. We`ve got so many experts for you. Stay right there. Fast- breaking developments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is unconscionable that they`ve taken her out and they`re going to put her back in because now they think maybe she`s guilty. That`s not what bail bondsmen do. You`re there to take people out, take the money, and if they say that they`re going to skip or not show up in court, then you revoke the bond, but not just because you change your mind about their guilt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She said there was absolutely no odor in the car when it was towed on June 30, and possibly maybe a body was placed in the car after that. She said that she even went down to the tow yard and spoke to the gentleman who gave the statement to the police, who said there was this odor, and he said that that smell did not start until a week after it had been at the tow yard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Remember, Nancy Grace back live on Monday, and she will have all the latest breaking developments in this case, which seems to be veering toward a climax.

Case in point, subpoenas were handed down today to Cindy Anthony, George Anthony, the grandparents of the missing child, and Lee Anthony, the uncle of the missing child, and also to a neighbor who lent Casey Anthony, the little girl`s mother, a shovel.

Let`s bring in the defense attorneys. What do you make of these subpoenas? Let`s start with Alan Ripka and then go to Eric Chase.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think the subpoenas are really important. Obviously, at this point, the district attorney and the police officers believe that they`re going to be able to gain some information from what they get from those subpoenas. So that`s a big step, at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Eric?

ERIC CHASE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the subpoenas are a preventive measure. You issue these subpoenas at the beginning of a case to make sure you`re going to have your witnesses available. That doesn`t mean you actually think they`re going to give you anything. You have them there just in case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I think it`s bigger than that because of the shovel. They don`t need a shovel for a child neglect case. But if they subpoena the neighbor who lent Casey the shovel, I think that says something more. Ponder that, gentlemen, and we`ll talk about it.

As we go to break, remember, Nancy Grace back live on Monday, and she will have all the latest breaking developments in this case. And we`re going to be right back with more. We`ve got so much DNA evidence and circumstantial evidence to discuss in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hammering "No trespassing" signs on to her lawn, Cindy Anthony angrily denounced what she`s calling rumors.

CINDY ANTHONY: She`s not dead. No one`s found her yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But with new evidence confirming traces of human decomposition in Casey Anthony`s car, some people are finding this impossible to believe. The Orange County sheriff`s office would not confirm whether or not test results have come back, but adds...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We continue to look for Caylee every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Some flurry of activity outside the Orlando Anthony home. Natisha, what is going on out there?

LANCE: Well, two cop cars just showed up -- four cop cars actually just showed up. They are moving the protesters back. I`m not sure if you can see behind me, Jane. There`s also an unmarked police car that is driving up to the home right now. And there`s two detectives. Detective John Allen (ph), who is the lead investigator on this case, is going up to the door. There is also a car that just went onto the lawn of the home, and there are several other police cars have gone to the home, as well. John Allen going up to the front door. And there is absolute chaos going on out here, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is breaking news that you are watching as it`s coming in, a chaotic scene outside the home of George and Cindy Anthony. A bunch of people took it into their heads to protest outside the home of this family that has been going through hell.

And of course, Casey Anthony, the center of the storm, inside the house being monitored with an ankle bracelet. I don`t know if she`s peeking out the window to watch any of this, but this is pretty extraordinary. This is the kind of thing you usually see with a celebrity like Britney Spears. But you don`t see it when there`s a family in shock and grief waiting to find out what happened to their little granddaughter. It`s an obscenity. Breaking news, knuckleheads protesting.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Astounding breaking news outside the Orlando, Florida home of George and Cindy Anthony. Inside, Casey Anthony, at least four cop cars, as well as an unmarked car, showing up moments ago. The big question is why are they there? Are they there because there`s a protest going on or are they there for some other reason?

Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE`s producer, outside taking in this extraordinary scene. Are they going into the home as if they`re going in to talk to the Anthony family?

Natisha, can you hear me? Well, I can tell you what I`m seeing right now is the front door appears to be open. It looks like you`re looking at Casey in there -- possibility of Casey in there, as you see somebody behind the door and, obviously, there look like officials as well.

The door closes. We don`t know why they`re there. Of course, the obvious question that`s on everybody`s mind.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: I`m ready.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: . are they there to make an arrest? Possibly.

We don`t want to jump to any conclusions. There`s a protest going on outside. At first, the first moments we thought maybe they`re there because the protesters are getting out of hand and going on private property.

Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, where did the officers go?

LANCE: Jane, there are -- the lead investigator, John Allen, is inside the home right now with two other detectives who have been working on the case. There are six unmarked police cars, two of them which are parked on the lawn of the Anthony home, which I`m sure you can probably right now.

The protesters are blocking our view a little bit.

There is also a police officer who is standing in front of the protesters making sure that nobody goes past him. Now we don`t know what`s going on at this point, however, police cars, marked and unmarked, have blocked the way for anybody to get past the front of the Anthonys driveway aside from those who were already in front of it,

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Natisha, people are coming in and out.

LANCE: Now investigators -- now investigators are coming out of the Anthony home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m seeing what appears to be Casey in there. Is that Casey? Or is that.

LANCE: It is Casey. I can see barely, but it is Casey. I can see through the front door window. There are two investigators who are in front of her. And like I said before, the lead investigator on this case, Detective John Allen, is inside as well.

He is in this blue shirt standing closest to the door with the glasses. I`m not sure if you can see him from here or not.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I just saw Cindy as well. I saw Cindy Anthony. She is, obviously, involved in whatever conversation is going on between the authorities, the lead investigator, who appears to be opening the door right there and Casey and Cindy, all huddled in conversation.

LANCE: Casey Anthony is now exiting the home. Protesters outside here are cheering. We don`t know where she is going, but she is being led away with -- in what seems to be handcuffs.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Repeat. Is it Casey?

LANCE: Yes, it is Casey.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Casey being led away.

LANCE: She just got into one of the unmarked police cars.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: OK. Casey is being led out of the home.

As you stay on this picture, let`s go to the defense attorney, Alan Ripka. As you see this, what do you think -- and again, we don`t have the information. But what are the possibilities? Is she being arrested? Did she agree to the limited immunity deal, which is up on Tuesday morning?

What do you think?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that if she`s being led away in handcuffs, chances are that the information that the police officers and district attorney`s office found from either the DNA or the air has led them to bring her back in.

If she`s not in handcuffs, then she`s coming of her own free will with her attorney, chances are she`s agreed to the immunity deal and they`re going to get together and talk about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Natisha, let`s confirm. Was she handcuffed or not as she was led out of the house?

LANCE: I`m trying to confirm that right now, Jane. I cannot see far enough to see if she was handcuffed or not. But what I can tell you is that protesters out here are cheering and she was led out by the lead investigator, Detective John Allen, along with two other investigators.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you see Cindy.

LANCE: She is now in that car and they are in the car and they are leaving the home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And you see Cindy Anthony right there in front of her home talking on a cell phone. But she seems relatively composed. She is not visibly distraught.

So, again, going back to Alan Ripka, defense attorney, as you see these cars pull away, in your experience as an attorney, would there be that many cars to take her away if it were not something significant?

RIPKA: No, actually there would not be that many cars. And I`ll tell you something else, Jane. If this was planned, her attorney would have been in the house and they would have been together and they would have left together if they were going to go talk about this deal voluntarily.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So what does that tell you, then, Alan?

RIPKA: It tells me that these officers, based upon this situation, and no attorney and potentially handcuffs, that they have new information or information that they think they could charge her with something new other than the child neglect and the obstruction.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re saying that it`s possible -- and I certainly don`t want to jump the gun. Again, this young woman has pleaded not guilty to child neglect and lying to investigators. She deserves the presumption of innocence.

But we`re talking about the possibility here that she might have been arrested for more serious charges, which could include, obviously, if they found her daughter`s body murdered.

RIPKA: Well, absolutely. Absolutely, Jane. You don`t go and take someone away after they just made bail and bring them back to the police station under the context of what was going on earlier, which was the potential deal of immunity and she had all weekend to think about it.

Obviously, they planned on Tuesday being the deadline so her and her attorney can discuss it and think about it. But, obviously, that`s been obviated by this complete action right now.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think if they found something more, they were like forget about -- as Nancy Grace suggested, forget about the limited immunity deal, we`re just going to come in and take you.

RIPKA: Well, there`s no doubt that if they -- the reason they offered the immunity deal originally was because they didn`t have enough and they were reaching for straws hoping they can get some clues.

At this particular time, if they have more evidence that they think they can win in court, they`re dragging her in and that`s the end of the immunity deal.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, doing a stellar job trying to make sense of the madness outside the Orlando, Florida Anthony home, what have you seen and heard since we last checked in with you moments ago?

LANCE: I do have confirmation that she did leave the home in handcuffs with the two lead detectives, Tim Miller, who has been on the show with us, also said that he will be talking to the lead detectives very shortly.

They`re supposed to be giving him a phone call. But at this point, all of the police cars have cleared out. The protesters are overjoyed. And Cindy Anthony did go back into the home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Casey Anthony left in handcuffs, Natisha? That is correct. All right.

Let`s go -- Andrew Scott, former chief of police, Boca Raton, Florida. You are a former police chief. You have watched this situation unfold. Give us your analysis. And, again, we don`t want to go into dangerous speculation that is unfair.

But we want to give our viewers a sense of what`s possibly happening to Casey Anthony tonight in this case that all of America is riveted on.

ANDREW SCOTT, FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE, BOCA RATON, FLORIDA: If Casey was left out of the house in handcuffs and accompanied by the law enforcement officers, clearly she was under arrest. If she was voluntarily going to the police department with the officers to give a statement of sorts or to provide additional information and she was not handcuffed, obviously, that would be a voluntary aspect of her going to the police department.

The fact that she`s in handcuffs, obviously, new developments have come, new evidence has been brought to light, and she is under arrest. They would not handcuff her unless she was under arrest.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Mark Williams, news director, WNDB Newstalk 1150, you`ve covered this from the beginning. This week has been filled with explosive developments. Air samples coming back showing a decomposing body in the trunk of the car, all sorts of other forensic evidence, hair that appears, the first test appeared to be Caylee`s and then, also, evidence that that hair showed signs of decomposition, although it`s not foolproof. It`s not 100 percent.

Do you think they have enough to charge her with something more serious, given what we know -- irrespective of did they find anything that we haven`t heard yet?

WILLIAMS: Well, let me put it to you this way. I`m surprised. Now I heard earlier tonight from a highly placed source that this was going to come down and that we could expect a bombshell coming any time during this show, which we all saw on the TV.

But the big thing is right now, I think they have enough circumstantial evidence to pick her up like they did just a couple of moments ago. They had the cadaver dogs hitting a couple of times both in the car, even in the backyard of the Anthony household.

They have the DNA and the sniff test which came back earlier this week. Again, as we talked about in past weeks, you know, people would ask where is the DNA test? I said, they`re trying to dot their I`s and cross their T`s which they`ve done.

They did it probably late this afternoon and they said let`s.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right.

WILLIAMS: Let`s go get them.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s an extraordinary event.

WILLIAMS: You bet.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And of course, so many other pieces of evidence, the circumstantial evidence, the habitual lies about where she left her daughter, a story completely that`s been completely discredited and the big fact we learned this week that she reportedly wanted to give her child up for adoption.

It appears the world is caving in on Casey Anthony tonight.

But happy news, a special happy birthday to Ann Lynch in Fayetteville, Georgia. There she is with Nancy and David`s daughter, little Lucy.

Happy birthday, Ann.

And remember, Nancy is back live Monday with all the latest breaking developments for Caylee Anthony. Monumental developments on this program. We`re going to bring you more in a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Extraordinary, breaking news happening on our air. Really, an extraordinary scene going on outside the Orlando, Florida, home of George and Cindy Anthony.

Just moments ago, approximately half a dozen cop cars -- some marked, some unmarked -- zoom up to the Anthony home in the middle of a protest. At first people wonder, well, was it happening to calm the protesters? Were they going on private property?

And then, no, they go right into the Anthony home. And the door is open. We see the lead investigator there. We see Casey Anthony, the mother of missing Caylee. We see Cindy Anthony, the grandmother of missing Caylee.

And then after a short discussion, you see the cops go on Casey Anthony and she is led out of that home into one of the squad cars. And those squad cars zip away.

And of course the implication is she`s under arrest. But the big question is for what? And I don`t think we should jump to conclusions just yet. We do not have a medical examiner saying that her missing child is dead, although the information coming in, the forensics coming in, are certainly quite ominous.

All of them point to the likelihood that Caylee Anthony is deceased. The air samples, of course, that show in the trunk of the car that Casey was driving -- there was signs of human decomposition. The hair sample that came back saying it was likely Caylee`s hair and it showed signs of decay.

Mark Williams, news director, WNDB Newstalk 1150, however, it doesn`t mean that they`re charging her necessarily with the big "M." It could be any other number of things -- obstructing justice, allegedly -- or anything else that she might have done in the course of the last 10 weeks where she -- her daughter was missing.

WILLIAMS: There`s just a whole litany of things they can go back on. One of the things that -- who went into the house was Uri Melich. She was the lead detective in the case as, obviously, well as John Allen, who`s a -- who`s one of the big guys downtown as we call it.

Also, when she was taken from the house, she was wearing her Caylee Anthony t-shirt. So isn`t that ironic that they put her in cuffs, put her in the back of a Ford Crown Victoria, and she`s wearing the t-shirt saying "Where`s My Caylee?"

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, doing a great job there on the scene, what were the emotions? Could you tell Casey Anthony - - was she stone-faced as usual? And what about Cindy Anthony?

LANCE: Casey was stone-faced as usual. There was no changed emotion. She didn`t look like she was sad. She didn`t look like she was angry. She just had a very straight face about her.

Cindy, the same way. As you have said earlier, Jane, she had a very calm composure. She was on the cell phone. She wasn`t crying. Didn`t see any crying. The only yelling or actual emotion that we saw was actually from the protesters out here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, Shannon Fox, family therapist and Momlogic.com contributor, when you see an extraordinary scene like this -- there`s protests going on outside the house of these individuals trapped in this horrific vortex, and then you see the woman at the center of the storm walk out totally stone-faced, what did that tell you about her?

SHANNON FOX, FAMILY THERAPIST, MOMLOGIC.COM CONTRIBUTOR: Well, you know, Jane, if she`s guilty, then she must be -- she must have some sort of sense of shame or fear, but the fact that she`s so stone-faced really indicates she`s not in the same universe.

She is -- she`s experiencing some sort of a psychosis or a sociopath experience where she feels like she`s above the law. She doesn`t even seem afraid of what`s ahead of her.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know it`s so extraordinary to me that this ordinary family -- George was once a cop. Cindy, I believe, has a nursing background.

Mark Williams, here they are in the center of something they could never have imagined, all because they had a daughter who is out of control. The -- Cindy herself described here as a sociopath to a friend. Others have said she`s bipolar.

Put this in perspective for our viewers. You live down there.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, I`m -- I`m not a psychologist or anything like that. But, you know, I think your last guest said, yes, she does live in her own universe, there`s no doubt about it.

She`s not showing any emotion over anything like the missing Caylee or anything like that. So it`s going to be interesting to see what transpires for the next few days.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, yes, we got more to come, that`s for sure.

As we go to break, a reminder, we`re broadcasting live Monday. Nancy will be back with the very latest developments of this investigation.

And now CNN "HEROES."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.

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LIZ MCCARTNEY, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: When Katrina hit, I was living in Washington, D.C. I couldn`t believe the pictures that I was looking at. I wanted to come down to New Orleans and volunteer.

I naively thought that six months later you`d see all kinds of progress, but the St. Bernard Parish looks like the storm had just rolled through. We realized very quickly that we were going to move to New Orleans. It was just something that we felt like we had to do.

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The St. Bernard Project can take a house that was gutted down to the studs, hang the sheetrock, put in new floors, we do all of that work in about 12 weeks for about $12,000.

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MCCARTNEY: Once you get one family back, other families are more confident and they are willing to come back as well.

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(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

Extraordinary breaking news just moments ago live op our air as a protest was underway at the Orlando home of the Anthonys. A fleet of squad cars pulls up, they go into the Anthony home and they cuffed Casey Anthony, the mother of the missing toddler, and they take her out.

They put her in a squad car and they zoom away in just about a half an hour from now. The sheriff`s department says they will hold a news conference to explain exactly why they arrested Casey.

The big question, of course, everybody wondering, does this mean that they found the little toddler, Caylee? We certainly cannot jump to that conclusion.

Natisha Lance, NANCY GRACE producer, outside the home, what is going on?

LANCE: Well, things have calmed down quite a bit, Jane, since the police came through. Right now we are actually just waiting for that sheriff`s press conference to start. As soon as we are off the air, I`m going to head over there and see what they are talking about with this re-arrest.

No one has come out of the home since they left in those cars, and things have been extremely quiet, so we`re just waiting to hear something at this point.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Anjali Swienton, president and CEO, SciLawForensics, obviously, the forensics this week have been extraordinary, pointing to the likelihood that little Caylee is no longer with us. What are those bullet points?

ANJALI SWIENTON, CEO, SCILAWFORENSICS, LTD.: I think we`ve got a bunch of things going on, Jane. There`s air from the trunk that the body farm reported, showed signs of -- of human decomposition. There was the hair evidence found in the trunk of the car that came back either Caylee`s or possibly Casey`s, but could be tied to the little girl.

There was some additional biological fluid in the car, which I don`t know if those -- if those tests have come back yet, but additional decomposition was suggested and then you`ve got the cadaver dogs that hit.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Suffice it to say, very bad news.

Well, we are out of time. It`s been an extraordinary evening. Nancy Grace, back here Monday. You know she`s going to have a lot of developments for you. So please join her Monday for the very latest on missing Caylee.

Thank you so much for joining us.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../29/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE - SEPT. 1, 2008

Investigators Confirm Belief Missing Florida Toddler Is Dead

Part 1/2

Aired September 1, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. Investigators go on the record, announcing there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old Caylee`s body. This as mom, Casey, back behind bars for cleaning out a so-called friend`s checking account, police hauling her out of her parents` home.

And a Sacramento bounty hunter comes off mom, Casey`s, $500,000 bond. We`re back at square one, Caylee`s mom still offering no clue as to the little girl`s whereabouts. Out on bond, mom, Casey, refused to attend vigils, talk to the cops, talk to the feds, or even help in the volunteer search for 3-year-old Caylee.

Right now, that clock is ticking on an immunity deal set to run out tomorrow morning, 0900. Experts now claiming strands of hair hold the key to this case. Why? As grandparents Cindy and George Anthony insist there must have been another dead body in the car trunk? Where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information that we`ve got back from the FBI lab indicating that -- you know, that she was in the trunk of that car and that she`s dead certainly is information we take very seriously.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The sheriff`s office searching for 3-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony drops a bombshell in the investigation. They say FBI lab evidence confirms human decomposition in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk. And we learn investigators now have additional evidence they are keeping a tight lid on, all of it leaning to what`s looking more and more like a grim outcome in this case, a strong possibility that little Caylee is dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the search for 3-year-old little Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For the first time, Florida investigators admit missing 3-year-old missing Caylee Anthony is probably dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have scientific evidence back from the lab, the FBI lab, and we have evidence that we have not yet made public that leads our investigators to believe that Caylee is deceased.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: FBI evidence from an abandoned car shows the trunk once held a decomposing body. A police investigator says it was probably the missing girl, last seen in mid-June. Caylee`s mom was rearrested on Friday. She faces new fraud and theft charges. Prosecutors say she has until tomorrow to accept a limited immunity deal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony is still fuming over her daughter`s rearrest Friday. She refuses to buy into evidence her granddaughter is dead.

CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots and it stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car is not my granddaughter! So why don`t you guys get your facts straight!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: More excuses as forensic evidence now formally indicates there was a decomposing dead body in the trunk of mom, Casey`s, car. So far, those accounts have been based on leaks and sources and reports, but now police coming out and formally announcing forensic evidence states that a dead body was in this woman`s car trunk. Tonight, where is 3-year-old little Caylee? The clock is ticking on an immunity deal offered to mom, Casey. It runs out 0900 tomorrow morning.

Let`s go straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, of course, the bombshell that was released late yesterday, the fact that lead investigator John Allen from the Orange County sheriff`s department saying, yes, their DNA evidence coming back from the FBI lab shows that a body was in the trunk...

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wait! You said DNA evidence? You believe this is DNA evidence? Because the announcement that I have says scientific evidence of human decomposition.

WILLIAMS: Well, we`re all led to believe it was DNA evidence. It could be scientific evidence -- you know, the scientific evidence coming, of course, from the body farm...

GRACE: Body farm, yes.

WILLIAMS: Yes, and of course, the cadaver dogs hitting. But John Allen...

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Answer me please, Mark Williams.

WILLIAMS: OK.

GRACE: Do you know something the rest of the world doesn`t know? Do you know that DNA evidence -- deoxyribonucleic acid -- points to a dead body? Because if that`s so, then they can pinpoint the dead body to little Caylee.

WILLIAMS: Well, John Allen, the lead investigator, said yesterday afternoon that they believe that it was little Caylee Anthony`s body in the back of that car.

GRACE: Yes, I know that. But do you know the scientific evidence is DNA and not hair evidence?

WILLIAMS: Well, one of the things they looked at was, of course, the hair evidence. I was going to get to that. But the...

GRACE: Yes, no. Do you know there`s DNA evidence?

WILLIAMS: It`s hair evidence that they have back and that matched...

GRACE: OK, I`m taking that`s a no on the DNA evidence.

WILLIAMS: Take -- do what you need to do on that, but it`s the hair evidence that came back. That`s one of the things. They checked the DNA of that, and they also checked -- obviously, they took samples from the comb and the toothbrush.

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! To Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist. Let`s just clear this up right now. Just because you have hair does not mean you`ve got DNA.

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: I agree. That`s a correct statement.

GRACE: OK. Back to you, Mark Williams. Give me the latest.

WILLIAMS: OK. You know, lead investigator John Allen said there was a body in the back of the car, more than likely it was Caylee`s. And so they think that -- they presume that Caylee is now dead.

Of course, one of the things that they`re doing is they have a search team in from Texas called Equusearch. They have beat the bushes all day today. They also beat the bushes yesterday, even using a sheriff`s department helicopter with infrared devices on it, ATVs they had on the ground, ground-penetrating radar. They have not been able to come up with anything. And one of the areas they searched was a wooded area near the Amscot (ph) store near where Caylee -- Casey left her abandoned car.

GRACE: You know, I want to go to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Drew, Mark Williams just said something that I find very probative. It means something. It proves something to me. The fact that we are now seeing formal searches, overhead searches by helicopters with radar by police -- so far, we`ve seen some volunteer searches. We`ve seen some blogger searches. We`ve seen a couple of cadaver dog searches. But they are out now with radar helicopters. They`re searching ground. What does that say to you, Drew?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, I mean, it`s hard to say what they`re thinking inside, but I think it`s important to note the places that they are searching. Again, one of the areas they`re searching is that area out by the airport. If you remember back, there was a lot of talk about the cell phone pings from Casey`s cell phone that took place in that area around July 17, 18, a time which is an important time in this case.

They also searched another place known as Moss (ph) Park, which is also close to the Anthonys` home. The third place that they searched is also important because it was near the Amscot where Casey actually abandoned her car, and it was found, of course, with this evidence inside of it.

One more thing, if I could just hit on what he was talking about, the DNA evidence and the discrepancy of what they found -- what they`ve said is hat they`ve gathered all this information, the hair, the DNA, the body farm, and it`s come back and it`s led them to believe that Caylee is dead. They`re not exactly giving specifics of what piece of evidence it was that made them believe that she`s dead. They`re basically saying the entirety of the evidence they`ve collected, as well as the testimony from her and her friends and just -- everything they`ve gathered in this case leads them to believe that Caylee is dead.

GRACE: Joining me, Mark Williams and Drew Petrimoulx, both from Orlando, Florida.

Everyone, we are taking your calls live.

I want to go out to the bounty hunter that made headlines when he got this woman, mom, Casey, a bond and got her out of jail. He swore to me up and down that he thought he could get this woman to talk to him and help find little Caylee. He was convinced at that juncture the little girl was alive. Joining me tonight, Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, helped get Casey Anthony out of jail. Mr. Padilla, thank you for being with us tonight. Why did you come off the bond?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, here`s what happened. That afternoon, Friday, I had a discussion with the attorney, he says -- because I had said the day before that the security was terrible around the house, we couldn`t control it, too many threats, too many people showing up at all hours of the day or night. He said, What does it take to keep her out on bond? I said, You`re going to have to let us do something different.

He says, OK, let`s do this. Let`s move the female that you`ve got in there with her 24/7 out of the house, and you can have your security people move into the house -- not in her room but in a different -- in a different room. And I said, That would be fine. And that way, we get rid of the Reverend, and our security -- we still have perimeter, but the two security people would be inside the house, and hopefully, that would eliminate the target -- the magnet, which was the RV. He didn`t get that done Friday.

The next thing is I see, is the law enforcement people rolling up because there was quite a crowd gathering outside. Cindy hit 911. Law enforcement came. I don`t know what Cindy thought, but obviously, they came with the intention of taking her to jail, which is probably the safest place for her to be right now. The bond at that time in Texas -- excuse me, I`m getting to that.

GRACE: No, no, no, no! No, no! You hold on. I think you came off that bond because you do not believe her. You think the little girl is dead.

PADILLA: Yes, I do.

GRACE: And not one time -- not one time, Mr. Padilla -- did this woman, mom, Casey Anthony, cooperate with you, try to talk to you, help you in the search for little Caylee. Yes or no?

PADILLA: Absolutely correct. You`re absolutely right. She never did lift a finger from the time she got out of jail at all. Nothing. But I didn`t make the call on pulling the bond. The company in Texas did it.

GRACE: Why do you think the little girl is dead?

PADILLA: Well, I think that what happened was subsequent to the 24th and before the 27th, there was some type of an accident.

GRACE: Accident.

PADILLA: I`m old-fashioned. I`m old-fashioned. I believe in Tennessee and I believe in the FBI lab. And I believe...

GRACE: Why do you say there was an accident?

PADILLA: Well, everybody that we`ve talked to, everybody that`s contacted us -- and it`s been dozens of people that knew her -- said that she would not harm her daughter purposely, that it had to be some kind of an accident and that the type of person...

GRACE: Sir...

PADILLA: Yes?

GRACE: ... you`ve been in this business a very, very long time...

PADILLA: Thirty-three years.

GRACE: ... probably as long as I`ve been in it. So if the camera guy there in the studio with you dropped down dead right now, would you rush and hide his body or would you call 911, Mr. Padilla? Please answer.

PADILLA: I would call 911. But I am not -- I mean, this girl is not -- her faculties aren`t all there. I can tell you that.

GRACE: Well, to Bethany Marshal, psychoanalyst and author, just because somebody is a pathological liar, does that mean they`re insane?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: No. I mean, what it really points to is that they have a severe personality disorder. I mean, think about our prison system. Our prison system is basically a warehouse for people with personality disorders. And I`m going to tell you...

GRACE: No, Bethany, our prison system is a warehouse for died-in-the- wool felons that prey on innocent people that are weaker or less cunning than they, such as 3-year-old Caylee Anthony!

MARSHALL: Well, and not only that, Nancy, but when a child under the age of 5 is a victim of homicide, in a third of the cases, it`s the dad. In a third of the cases, it`s the mom. And the mode of death is usually suffocation, strangulation or blunt force trauma with a weapon of opportunity because the parent gets out of control and hits the child.

GRACE: Liz, let me see the photo of little Caylee in her little swimsuit. Today we learn police formally announcing that there is scientific evidence of human decomposition in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. They state, quote, "This lab evidence, along with additional evidence that has not been made public" -- there`s the photo that breaks my heart every time I look at it. Please take down the Chyrons. I want to see it in full. This little girl that everybody has been looking for, police now say that they believe she is dead. It`s not from a source of a source of a source. Police are formally announcing that.

While mom, Casey Anthony, has been put behind bars for what? For cleaning out a friend`s checking account, a friend that loaned her a car. She gets their checks apparently out of the glove compartment and goes and writes checks to Target, the grocery store, for cash, you name it.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Alex Sanchez, Meg Strickler (ph). We are taking your calls live.

Out to Alheli in Canada. Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. I know you`ve been very good about defending the parents. I have no sympathy for them. They are woefully ignorant of the facts, and I can`t even believe they continue to defend their daughter.

GRACE: Well, I`ve got to tell you something, Alheli. I know from firsthand experience the suffering that people, victims` families, go through after a murder. And I understand where you`re coming from.

In fact, just today, Mark Williams, we hear more excuses. Now that we know that there has been a dead body in Casey Anthony`s car trunk, they say, Oh, well, somebody must have put another dead body in my daughter`s car trunk.

WILLIAMS: And that goes along with the pizza theory, that there was a pizza back there for 12 to 15 days and it had maggots on it and sweltered in the Florida sunshine, plus cleaning fluid back there. You know, my head just shakes every time when Cindy Anthony comes out and talks to the media or talks to the protesters, saying that Caylee is still alive and well.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: ... Caylee is missing and continue to look for Caylee. She is not dead!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do you deal with what they`re saying about in the trunk of the car?

CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots that stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you ever see bruises on Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY: I have a bruise. Am I abused?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) a month ago, that my daughter`s been looking for her. I told you my daughter was missing for a month. I just found her today, but I can`t find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she`s been trying to find her herself. There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mistruths out there, or half-truths, but she is not a murderer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy, did you want to say anything about the new developments?

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s no new developments.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, they`re saying now that Caylee is dead.

CINDY ANTHONY: No, they`re not. Why do you think they came and talked to me yesterday? Get the (DELETED) off my property.

I`m not blindsided. They`ve been doing this from day one, guys. You guys have fed right into their hands. Let`s just find Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Alex Sanchez, New York, Meg Strickler, Atlanta. Alex Sanchez, immunity deal ends 0900 tomorrow morning. Will they take it?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I`d have to know exactly what is in that immunity deal. What does it mean? Does it mean if she gives information about the whereabouts of Caylee dead or alive, they`re not going to prosecute her? I have not seen a written immunity...

GRACE: No, it`s a limited immunity deal -- I`ve got it right here in my hands -- where if she offers to help find the body, Meg Strickler, what she tells them in that narrow instance will not be used against her.

MEG STRICKLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, and I agree it`s not going to really help at this point. I think it might even be off the table with the new information that`s been given to...

GRACE: Well, can either one of you give me a straight answer? Alex, will she take the deal or not?

SANCHEZ: No, she will not take the deal because...

GRACE: Meg?

SANCHEZ: ... if she says anything...

STRICKLER: No, I don`t think...

SANCHEZ: ... it`s going to hurt her later on.

STRICKLER: ... she`ll take it, either.

Part 2/2

Investigators Confirm Belief Missing Florida Toddler Is Dead

Aired September 1, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: One good thing is, I`m going to a benefit today. Does anybody want to know -- on Clairmont (ph) and Winter Garden (ph) (INAUDIBLE) my granddaughter and also some other missing children. That`s the stuff that should be out there, instead of this other sensational that you guys are putting out. You guys don`t know. The person that was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car is not my granddaughter! So why don`t you guys get your facts straight!

(CROSSTALK)

GEORGE ANTHONY: And the next time, I will toss you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not here to cause a problem, George.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You`re on my property. This is my property. This is my property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not causing problems for you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, let`s take a look at what the grandfather said, Mark Williams, The person in the back of the trunk was not my granddaughter. Is there any other logical explanation?

WILLIAMS: None whatsoever, according to the scientific evidence that`s been brought forward, according to lead investigator John Allen, according to the cadaver dogs that hit on Casey`s car, as well as in the back yard of the Anthony household, and of course, the sniff test which came back from the University of Tennessee.

GRACE: I want to go back to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla joining us out of Sacramento, California. Mr. Padilla, what was it like inside the Anthony home?

PADILLA: Well, after she got out of jail, I was only in there one time. And basically, I was sitting there talking to her mother, and one of my associates was there. And she started in with the Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez thing, and I told her I didn`t want to hear that. I said, If you want to discuss something with me, tell me the truth. I don`t want to hear that. It`s bunk. It`s...

GRACE: OK. So you were straight with them. Everybody, with me, Leonard Padilla. We are taking your calls.

A quick break. And as we go to break, while I was gone last week, I met with the aunt of a 19-year-old girl who went missing. Here is Barbara McNair (ph). There she is with little Lucy, my little Lucy. She`s still desperately looking for answers in the search for who killed 19-year-old Pam Kinney, Apalachicola, Florida. She vanished 2005, last seen near Apalachicola. Three weeks later, her body discovered in a heavily wooded area. Take a look. This case is still unsolved, a $10,000 reward. If you have info, please, please help us. Call Franklin County police, 850-670- 8500.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: We need to start looking outside of Orange County. We need to start looking for a little girl that`s walking and breathing, that someone actually has her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. In that home, you sat down to try to get some facts about where is Caylee, and they started up with the whole, I left her with the nanny thing?

PADILLA: That`s right. And I certainly didn`t want to listen to that because I had read the police reports, I`d heard other people talk about it. And I figured that we had gotten her out. I`d traveled -- I told her, I traveled 3,000 miles, and you`re going to start with this? I`m not going to deal with it. And she says, Get out of my house.

GRACE: Wait. Who is this talking, Casey or Cindy?

PADILLA: Casey.

GRACE: She said, Get out of my house?

PADILLA: Yes. So I got up...

GRACE: From what I understand, it`s her parents` house and she`s been freeloading off them for 23 years.

PADILLA: Right. At one time, she was telling a lot of people, including her friend, Amy (ph), the one she stole the money from, that the parents were going to sign the house over to her. And she had a lot of people kind of on that kind of a schtick, you know, for a while there, until they actually talked to the parents. And the parents said, No, we`re not going to do that. We never even talked about doing that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED BAIL CASEY ANTHONY OUR OF JAIL: I`m going to put her back in jail. Getting out of jail is the big thing. I can take her back to jail. I can`t change my mind? She said if she got out she wanted to go find her daughter.

Not a word, not a word. She`s sitting there at home. She hasn`t uttered one word and she says here`s who has the baby. She didn`t say a word to me. She didn`t say a word to her mother or her dad.

What, I can`t change my mind?

I believe the baby is alive. The little girl is deceased. I believe she passed it off to one of her friends. I don`t believe that somebody else put a body in the car. Once, I changed my mind once. I`m still hoping that the little girl is alive.

I don`t think she`s alive anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you still estimate it will take you a week to get her back?

PADILLA: A week from today.

The little girl is deceased. I don`t think the little baby is dead. I`ve changed my mind 180 degrees.

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: Mr. Padilla agreed not to surrender the bond. He`s going to stick to her his word he gave to me.

PADILLA: I never gay gave you a word that I broke. Bail can pulled any time. Practicing to run for president with all the flip-flops.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: In the last 72 hours, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla has come off of that bond, this after meeting with mom Casey Anthony and other forensic tests coming in. He has decided the little girl in his mind is no longer with us. Now she is back behind bars. No bond to the rescue the way it was last time.

Mr. Padilla, in addition to the forensic evidence that has just been released, was her attitude, the way she treated you, your personal observation of her sitting there in her home with her, did that in any way affect your decision the little girl is no longer alive?

PADILLA: Well, I`ll tell you one thing. The biggest effect came from Wednesday, from the Tennessee tests and.

GRACE: Yes.

PADILLA: . the DNA from the FBI -- or the information from the FBI.

GRACE: Does she seem -- I mean, you have been sitting with her there in the kitchen of her home. Does she seem remorseful? Does she seem anxious? Was she crying? Was she talking about the search for Caylee? How can we find my little girl? Anything.

PADILLA: Never, ever once. I only sat there in the kitchen or in the room with her one time but I saw her when she was being transported to and from her attorney`s office, going in, coming out. I`ve sat in the attorney`s office on a couple of occasions. Not one tear ever.

GRACE: What was her demeanor?

PADILLA: Like nothing had ever happened.

GRACE: You know, Sanchez, Strickler, don`t start up about how people grieve in different ways, all right? Don`t even crank up that same sad, sorry song, all right?

So, Sanchez, what do you make of the fact that she shows no emotion, no -- nothing about the search for her daughter?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know what to make of that. But one thing I do know. I think this family seriously regrets ever getting involved with Mr. Padilla, because Mr. Padilla essentially acted like a spy.

GRACE: You know what? That`s not what I asked you.

Meg, want to answer the question?

SANCHEZ: You know why she`s not showing remorse, I don`t know. I have not spoken to her.

GRACE: Meg Strickler, do you want to answer the question?

MEG STRICKLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I hate to say it but I would say she`s in shock. I know that`s not grief but all this thing.

GRACE: OK.

STRICKLER: . has never -- has been in front of the media before.

GRACE: She`s in shock.

STRICKLER: Yes.

GRACE: Let`s talk about that, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst. We`ve already had one cop thrown off the force for a relationship with her on this investigation.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": It`s true.

GRACE: It`s just shock?

MARSHALL: No, it`s not shock. If the person has the capacity to murder a 3-year-old defenseless little child -- and you know how charming 3-year-olds are -- a person like that is not going to be persuaded to feel sorry, to feel remorseful, to crack or to cry, no matter what.

Not if they`re let out in front of an angry mob, not if they`re handcuffed. Not if they`re facing someone in a uniform or moved in and out of the prison system.

I`ll tell you what motivates her, according to Tim Miller. He spent hours in the home and she was on the Internet. That`s what she wants to do -- dance, party, chat with her friend. That`s what motivates her.

GRACE: Right now no charge of murder has been lodged against mom Casey Anthony.

Back to Alex Sanchez and Meg Strickler. This immunity deal -- the immunity deal is a limited immunity deal, which means tell us where she is, we will not use those words against you. But if we get any evidence from, say, her location or her body, that evidence will come in against you.

Is that the way you understand the deal, Alex?

SANCHEZ: That`s the -- if that is the deal, it would be absolutely insane for the attorney to go along with that, because, basically, you`re handing over a prime piece of evidence to the prosecution and they can indict her for murder and then prosecute her.

STRICKLER: Exactly.

GRACE: So Meg Strickler, you and Alex, you know, you`re chiming in, exactly, exactly, so you consider her body just a piece of evidence?

STRICKLER: No, I don`t consider it a piece of evidence in that sense. I know she`s a wonderful 3-year-old. I have a 2-year-old little girl and I totally can identify with that. But why would give a limited immunity is like an oxymoron. It doesn`t help us here.

There`s nothing that will help.

GRACE: OK.

STRICKLER: . the defense attorney here in accepting this immunity deal.

GRACE: So no.

STRICKLER: No.

GRACE: No immunity deal.

Out to the lines Bonnie in Canada. Hi, Bonnie.

BONNIE, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Hi, welcome back, Nancy Grace.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. What`s your question, dear?

BONNIE: Will the FBI be investigating Casey`s communication on the phone and on the computer since she was out until the time she returns back to jail?

GRACE: You mean were the lines tapped?

BONNIE: Yes. Or will they -- or will they -- I don`t know the legal term.

GRACE: You`re talking about can it become a federal case because wire, telephone or computer was used and possible transactions about this case.

Drew Petrimoulx, joining us tonight from WDBO, any suggestion that there has been a tap on the lines?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: No. I mean, obviously, that`s something that a lot of times in these type of investigations that investigators want to keep to themselves just, you know, for the integrity of the investigation.

We do know that the visits between her parents and her that were taking place at the jail were videotaped and those have been handed over to investigators and those haven`t been released to the public.

So that`s some information as to those conversations that we don`t know actually took place.

GRACE: To Alex Sanchez, if they`ve got probable cause, they can even have a bug, a wire inside the Anthony home.

SANCHEZ: They could. They`d have to go to a judge and they`d have to ask the judge to grant them permission to put a bug for a specific period of time. And then after that specific period of time is over, they have to remove the bug.

So, yes, they could possibly get a bug in this case.

GRACE: And Meg Strickler, they`ve been in the home plenty of times?

STRICKLER: True. They could have searched through the house and looked for evidence in this case. And it sounds to me that they have not been able to find very much evidence at all.

GRACE: I`m talking about a bug, Meg.

STRICKLER: Yes.

GRACE: They have plenty of opportunity to plant a bug..

STRICKLER: Absolutely.

GRACE: . if they want to catch her talking. I want to go out.

STRICKLER: They clearly haven`t found anything.

GRACE: We don`t know that yet. We don`t know what they found or what they overheard if there was a tap.

To Tim Miller, head of Texas Equusearch, searching for Caylee. He`s joining us tonight from Orlando, Florida.

Tim, it`s great to see you again, friend.

TIM MILLER, HEAD OF TEXAS EQUUSEARCH, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Thank you, Nancy.

GRACE: Tim, why did you pick these specific areas to search? What evidence do you have? What do you know that led you to these places to search?

MILLER: I didn`t pick these three areas. These are areas that law enforcement wanted us to search. These are areas they want us to search thoroughly. They want us to search them two or three times. And they want these areas cleared before we move on to other areas. And these are huge areas. And.

GRACE: Tell me in a nutshell, Tim, where the areas were police wanted you to search?

MILLER: I think it`s probably been made public that these are areas where cell phone activity was going off the towers.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Sherry in Kentucky. Hi, Sherry.

SHERRY, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I was wondering, have cadaver dogs ever been taken to the area where Casey`s car was found?

GRACE: Excellent question.

Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk 1150. Have they?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, one of the things that Equusearch did was search an area near the Amscot parking lot where her car was found. Apparently they used cadaver dogs, but nothing came up in their search today, Nancy.

GRACE: And the reason, I take it, Mark Williams, that they are looking in that area is because her car was there, apparently, ran out of gas. So they`re thinking if she had hidden Caylee somewhere, she couldn`t have gotten very far from that location?

WILLIAMS: So true. And if she ran out of gas she could have taken the body out of the car -- but again, this is pure speculation -- and put it anywhere in a wooded area in that general vicinity.

GRACE: To Scott Haines, sheriff`s office, Santa Rosa County, California, at this juncture, what do you believe police should be doing?

SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICE, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FLORIDA: I think they need to keep putting the pressure on Casey. Obviously, they`re going after these other charges trying to put pressure on her, put pressure on the family.

And I think they`ve done a great job so far and the evidence is coming together and despite the immunity deal, I think they`ll make a case even if she doesn`t want to go through with that.

GRACE: Well, she`s clearly not taking that deal. That was Scott Haines and Dr. Michael Arnall.

Taking your calls when we get back, but at your request, here are some pictures of the twins from this vacation while we were missing you. They were swinging by the sea. In the pool for the very first time, John David and little Lucy. On their way to the pool. She likes to play ball and he likes to control the remote. Here he is. Now, look. He`s starting to crawl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: There`s something wrong. I found daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots, it stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: My daughter has been missing for the last 30 days.

UNIDENTIFIED 911 OPERATOR: Do you know who has her?

CASEY ANTHONY: I know who has her. I`ve tried to contact her.

You know I would not let anyone happen to my daughter. If I knew where she was this wouldn`t be going on.

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have mistruths out there or half truths but she is not a murder.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Initial tests on the foul odor in Casey Anthony`s car have come back positive for human decomposition, the first scientific signal that a dead body was in Casey Anthony`s car.

CINDY ANTHONY: She`s not dead. No one`s found her yet. There are certain things that the family can`t say. There are certain things that we do know, there are certain things that Casey knows that she can`t tell.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Literally just hours left on a limited immunity deal offered to Casey Anthony. And, you know, I don`t know about this lawyer Jose Baez. I got a handful of e-mails and letters the state has been sending him.

Do you want the limited immunity deal? Can you call us back? Did you get my last e-mail? Hey, Baez, don`t spit into the wind. You`ve got the state trying to contact you. At least send an e-mail.

Also, this as we learn that apparently Casey Anthony deleted almost 200 photos of little Caylee.

To you, Scott Haines, joining us from Pensacola, Florida, is that circumstantial behavioral evidence? What does that say to you that she -- got rid of forever all of these photos of her little girl just before she went missing?

HAINES: Well, obviously, that`s not normal behavior for a parent to delete pictures of your 3-year-old child who is missing. You`d want as many pictures as you can. That makes absolutely no sense.

When it comes to computer forensics, all those can be recovered, as well as the times they were deleted. And that`s one more piece of evidence that the investigators have.

GRACE: Bethany.

HAINES: And on top of that.

GRACE: Go ahead.

HAINES: No, I was just going to say, every time this comes up with Casey wearing this shirt, "Have you seen me?" it just makes me nauseous to see her wearing that. Just -- it`s just another slap in the face.

GRACE: You know, Dr. Bethany -- in a nutshell, Dr. Bethany -- don`t throw a lot of psychoanalysis on me here -- deleting the photos.

MARSHALL: Well, what comes to mind is that one of the reasons parents murder their children is that they want the children out of the way so they can have the life they want. They think the child is a bother. And so when you delete the pictures, you`re deleting the child. You`re deleting the memory of them just like when you murder a child you delete the child.

GRACE: To Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensics pathologist, an expert in his field, joining us from Denver, Colorado.

Dr. Arnall, I want to talk to you about the hair. Many experts believe the key to this case is in the hair found in the trunk. We`ve got a lot of other evidence that they`re not releasing, a lot of -- other evidence we know about. But I have long maintained this hair could be the key to the case.

Explain to me how you can look at a human hair and determine whether it was shed pre or postmortem.

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The FBI has a publication on the Internet indicating that when a hair is shed from a decomposing body, there is a dark band, a dark coloration on the hair itself.

So when they examine that hair under the microscope, if they see that dark decomposition band, they`re going to conclude that this particular hair was shed from a decomposing body.

GRACE: So that`s the only way the dark ring can appear on the hair, Dr. Arnall, is after death?

ARNALL: That`s the only way that I know of.

GRACE: OK. And, Doctor, certainly you would know. You`re a forensic pathologist.

Dr. Arnall, explain to me in the most simple terms, how can a hair be confused as to identity, that the hair may be Casey`s or it may be Caylee`s?

ARNALL: They`re going to compare the length of the hair they found in the trunk as well as its shape and its coloration to pictures of Caylee and Caylee`s mother that were taken as close to the time of disappearance as is possible.

GRACE: What about DNA? What about DNA?

ARNALL: Well, the gold standard is going to be those little cells in the hair follicle. If the hair follicle is present.

GRACE: The root?

ARNALL: The hair root, that DNA will be a gold standard and that rule out.

GRACE: OK. What if we don`t have the root?

ARNALL: Well.

GRACE: Can you get mitochondrial DNA if there`s no root?

ARNALL: They can. Remember, these hairs are from -- are said to be from a decomposing body.

GRACE: Right.

ARNALL: And the hairs that fall out of a decomposing body fall out very easily and likely contain some cells. Now, whether the cells are so decomposed that it makes recovery of DNA impossible, we`ll wait to see.

GRACE: Well, wait it -- whoa, whoa, whoa. We`re missing the forest for the trees, Doctor. If we know the hair is from a dead body and we know the hair is either Caylee or Casey`s, then it`s got to be Caylee`s. Casey`s alive and with us.

ARNALL: That is correct.

GRACE: Out to the liens.

ARNALL: By process of exclusion, that`s easy.

GRACE: To Donna in Kansas, hi, Donna.

DONNA, KANSAS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. It`s good to see you back.

GRACE: Thank you. It`s good to be back.

What`s your question, dear?

DONNA: That swamp area out by the airport.

GRACE: Yes.

DONNA: Has anybody searched that?

GRACE: To Tim Miller with Texas Equusearch, I believe that area has been searched. Yes, no, Tim?

MILLER: Partially. We`ve had so much rain down here, we cannot any way possible search everything that needs to be searched until this water goes down. So we could have went right by Caylee and missed her until the water goes down so it`s going to be a long search. We are going to bring her home, though.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAEZ: I`ve spoken to top DNA experts across the country and they tell me, DNA is DNA. You can`t tell whether the person is alive or dead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, according to our expert tonight, Dr. Michael Arnall, you can tell whether the donor of hair samples was dead or alive.

Back out to the lines, Jennifer in Kansas, hi, Jennifer.

JENNIFER, KANSAS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

JENNIFER: How long had Casey been moved out of the house before Caylee turned up missing, and if they think that that was all part of her plan to move out of the house?

GRACE: Interesting.

Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: She had been out of the house and dating a lot of people from -- during the springtime.

GRACE: Boy, that`s putting perfume on a pig. And let me tell you, believe me, I`m not throwing the stones. No pot is calling a kettle black here.

But when you`re talking about during a murder investigation, the timeline is very important. She hasn`t officially moved out at the time she was missing -- Caylee was missing. She -- I thought she was just on a hiatus.

WILLIAMS: She was kind of living in and out with Tony Lazzaro, if you recall at one pointing, during June, during late May, early June.

GRACE: Right.

WILLIAMS: And that`s -- that`s pretty much it until she went on her hiatus for 30 days looking for her child.

GRACE: Everyone, the clock ticking down. That immunity deal set to expire in just a couple of hours.

Let`s stop and remember Army Major Stuart Wolfer, 36, Coral Springs, Florida, killed Iraq on a second tour. Also served Kuwait. Supported by a brand new Boy Scout organization in Iraq.

Devoted to his faith. A graduate of Washington University and Loyola Law School. Leaves behind parents, Leonard and Ester, one sister, widow, Lee Anne, and three little girls.

Stuart Wolfer, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friends.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../01/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

Missing tot’s grandmother clings to hope she’s alive
Cindy Anthony says police should be searching, instead of building a case


Grandma believes tot is alive
Sept. 2: TODAY’s Matt Lauer talks to Cindy Anthony, the grandmother of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony, about new developments in the case.
Today show


Even as evidence mounts that Florida toddler Caylee Anthony is dead, her grandmother insisted Tuesday that the 3-year-old is alive and that the child’s mother is only guilty of poor judgment and lying. “I believe Caylee is with someone that [her mother] Casey had trusted,” Anthony told TODAY co-host Matt Lauer on Tuesday. “And I believe that Casey has been, you know, betrayed.
“It’s unfortunate that it’s going to take the average citizen to bring Caylee back home to me alive and not the authorities.”

Orange County Sheriff’s Sgt. John Allen said Sunday that Caylee’s decomposing body was likely in the trunk of Casey Anthony’s car.Casey Anthony, 22, was released on bail on Aug. 21, but re-arrested on Friday for charges unrelated to Caylee’s disappearance.
Prosecutors have reportedly offered Anthony, who they are labeling as a “person of interest,” limited immunity in exchange for cooperation in finding the child’s remains, a deal that was set to expire today at 9 a.m.
However, family spokesman Larry Garrison said he has “not heard of any such deal.”
“Again, this goes to false information in the media and the spin that has been put on this case,” Garrison said.
Timeline of trouble
Caylee Anthony was last seen in mid-June and was reported missing to authorities on July 15.
Cindy Anthony had called 911 and said she had not seen her granddaughter in several days and that her daughter Casey’s car trunk smelled like a dead body.
She would later rescind the comment, claiming the smell to be from an old pizza and other trash in the trunk of the automobile.
Casey Anthony has only told investigators that she dropped her daughter off with a baby sitter and went to work. But detectives quickly said those claims were not true.
At a July hearing, detectives also said Casey Anthony’s trunk contained hair samples appearing to belong to Caylee and also a suspicious stain, which glowed under black light. They also said the car smelled strongly of human decomposition.
Allen told various media outlets on Sunday that there is a strong probability that Caylee Anthony is dead, based on FBI lab results from the findings in the truck and “additional evidence that has not been made public.”
“My reaction is that John Allen is speaking out of context,” Cindy Anthony told Lauer. “I believe that because I’m still getting phone calls of people who have seen Caylee and they’re frustrated because the authorities aren’t investigating.”

TODAY
Casey Anthony with her daughter Caylee, now missing.
But authorities say the investigation is ongoing. Orange County detectives have directed search teams to a wooded area near where Casey Anthony abandoned her car.
At the same time, some 150 volunteers helped Texas Equusearch on Sunday to try to find other evidence related to Caylee’s disappearance. That’s an organization which uses computer mapping and other technologies to establish evidence of missing persons.
“I’m getting phone calls from people saying why they’re not out looking in the woods - because they don’t believe Caylee is out there,” Cindy Anthony said. “They believe Caylee is alive and Caylee is with somebody, so that’s my reassurance.”
New charges
Investigators took Casey Anthony back into custody on Friday night on charges of fraudulent use of personal information and petty theft.
She is accused of stealing more than $600 from a friend, taking a checkbook from that friend’s car in July, before her first arrest.
As she was drawn from her house by police wearing a shirt bearing her daughter’s face and asking “Have you seen me?,” she was met by protesters calling her “baby killer.”
Garrison told Lauer he is fearful of the safety for Caylee and Cindy Anthony because of the anger of some protesters.
“First and foremost, the spin has gotten out of control,” he said.
“I’m not confident that the police are going to come and help them out. I really am not. They have not before and all I can say there are a lot of people out there that believe [Caylee] is still alive.”
Orange County officials say more charges unrelated to Caylee’s disappearance are in store for Casey Anthony.
Her attorney, Jose Baez, told reporters over the weekend: “This is nothing more than an attempt by law enforcement to play mind games with my client. They leaked the arrest to the media and deliberately avoided telling me so she could turn herself in a dignified fashion. They clearly wanted the media to capture my client is the worst possible light.”


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26507699/

[carpe noctem]

NANCY GRACE SHOW - Aired Sept. 2nd, 2008



Missing Toddler`s Mother Reportedly Turns Down Immunity Offer

Aired September 2, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. The deadline comes and goes, mom, Casey, turning down an immunity deal in the search for her own little girl. Translation, what she knows, she`s not telling.

Now we learn even more criminal charges expected against mom, Casey. And tonight, just released, recent 911 calls from the Anthonys to police. Grandmother, Cindy, shows up on national TV insisting Caylee is still alive and attacking police, claiming they are doing nothing to find the little girl. She claims forensic evidence pointing to Caylee`s death is out of context.

And tonight, mom, Casey, back behind bars for cleaning out a so-called friend`s checking account. This as investigators go on the record, confirming there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk, and all indicators are it was 3-year-old Caylee. Mom, Casey, digging in her heels tonight, still offering not a single clue as to the little girl`s whereabouts as volunteer searches go on yet another day today. Where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: 911. What`s the emergency?

GEORGE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S GRANDFATHER: I have protesters on my -- they`re knocking on my front door. They`re trying to come in. They`re breaking my door.

911 OPERATOR: You want to meet with a deputy?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes, ma`am. I need someone here to get these people off. They`re knocking on my front door.

911 OPERATOR: How many people? Approximately how many?

GEORGE ANTHONY: I have five people right now.

911 OPERATOR: Did you see any weapons with them?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Ma`am, I have no idea. I haven`t opened up the door because they`re trying to break in through our door, ma`am.

911 OPERATOR: OK. We`re sending someone out there as soon as we can.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Thank you.

911 OPERATOR: You`re welcome. Bye-bye.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: She`s not dead! No one`s found her yet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you asked your daughter, Where`s Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And where is she?

CINDY ANTHONY: She doesn`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?

CINDY ANTHONY: Because someone took her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The desperate search for 3-year-old Florida girl Caylee Anthony.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: 911. What is your emergency?

CINDY ANTHONY: I have about 50-plus protesters outside my house. They`re all on my property. I have "No trespassing" signs on. This is Cindy Anthony calling.

911 OPERATOR: OK.

CINDY ANTHONY: They`re all out there screaming "Murderer" and stuff. And I have people trying to come into my house and they`re disrupting them, and I don`t want a riot to start outside my home. So if someone could send a deputy by, I would appreciate it.

911 OPERATOR: All right. We`ll get someone out there as soon as we can.

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. Thank you. I don`t think they even have a permit for their protest.

911 OPERATOR: OK.

CINDY ANTHONY: All right. Thank you. Bye-bye.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you called in and says, It smelled like there`s a dead body in my daughter`s car, why did you say that for? Because you know there was a dead body there!

CINDY ANTHONY: No, I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re a liar! Why did you say it, then? Why did you say it!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the big story today, of course, Nancy, was the deal for limited immunity that expired at 9:00 o`clock this morning, basically, the opening of business at the county attorney`s office, and she did not take it, nor did her attorney, Jose Baez, take advantage of that.

And of course, as you know, Nancy, that the deal would have been if she would have talked about where she may have placed Casey`s (SIC) body or given the whereabouts of Caylee`s body, she would not have been prosecuted but they could have used any evidence gathered to use that against her in the investigation, and of course, any subsequent trial. That is the big thing that happened today. No movement there whatsoever. So she still remains in the Orange County jail.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Back to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. We just played a portion of a 911 call where the Anthonys are calling police regarding protesters there in their front yard. Now, we have heard intimations by the Anthonys, police are doing nothing to help them. Didn`t police show up in regard to that 911 call?

WILLIAMS: Four cruisers showed up that night. Several of them were unmarked cruisers. Most of them were marked. But they showed up. And that was before the arrest of Casey Anthony later that evening.

The deal is, the protesters showed up. It was an Internet sort of deal that they all got together on the Internet and they showed up Friday night. I don`t know if you need a permit to assemble there because it is on public property. There were about 50 protesters. Everything was fine. They -- the police presence, of course, kind of quieted things down, but it could have become really ugly.

GRACE: What exactly are they protesting, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Well, they`re protesting Casey Anthony herself. They were holding signs accusing Casey of being literally a baby killer, and that`s kind of what they`re thinking of. They think that Casey Anthony should come to trial, she should be convicted. But let`s just put it in context. A, the biggest thing is she is innocent until proven guilty. She has not been proven guilty yet.

GRACE: You know, Mark, I appreciate that tutorial on the law, but I was simply trying to find out what the drift is of the protesters out in the front yard. They are becoming increasingly angry. Also grandmother, Cindy Anthony, has shown up on national TV claiming that police are doing nothing to help find Caylee. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee is with someone that Casey had trusted. And I believe that Casey had been just, you know, betrayed. And you know, it`s unfortunate that it`s going to take the average citizen to bring Caylee back home to me alive and not the authorities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information that we`ve got back from the FBI lab indicating that -- you know, that she was in the trunk of that car, and that she`s dead, certainly is information we take very seriously.

CINDY ANTHONY: My reaction is that John Allen is speaking out of context. And if you would have had Commander Irwin`s (ph) interview later on in the day, he also stated that they`re following up evidence in their investigation that Caylee may be alive. And I believe that because I`m still getting phone calls of people that have seen Caylee, and they`re frustrated because the authorities aren`t investigating.

Equusearch wants to know why thousands of people aren`t out helping them look in the woods. I`m getting phone calls from people saying why they`re not out looking in the woods, because they don`t believe Caylee is out there. They believe Caylee is alive and that Caylee is with somebody. So that`s my reassurance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are seeing grandmother, Cindy Anthony, on NBC`s "Today" show. She is adamant that 3-year-old little Caylee is still alive. She claims that all of the statements police have made regarding the forensic testing indicating a decomposed body in mom, Casey`s, car trunk had been simply taken out of context.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Shirley in Florida. Hi, Shirley.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I`ve been trying to call for a month. My question is, with all the partying that Casey does, could she have been in a blackout? Could she have left Caylee in the car, in the heat, and she had died and then Casey, going into a blackout, panicking, putting her daughter in the trunk?

GRACE: OK. Let me ask you something. I`ve got Shirley in Florida on the phone with me. Shirley, you mean she`s still in a blackout when she puts the little girl in the car trunk?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, if she`s doing drugs and drinking, she might...

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! So a blackout from drugs and drinking. Let`s go straight to the lawyers, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta, veteran trial lawyer John Burris joining me from San Francisco. Correct me if I`m wrong, Ray Giudice, but voluntary intoxication or drug use is not a defense.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. It`s not a defense. However, it might get you into an involuntary homicide charge, as opposed to an intentional homicide charge. The difference is capital punishment versus maybe maximum 20 years.

GRACE: Absolutely incorrect! John Burris, either involuntary alcohol or drug use is a defense or it`s not. You don`t -- you`re not halfway in and halfway out. It is not a defense under the law. It does not negate intent, period, under the law.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that you`re right about that, but you have to deal with the whole question of, Is this a specific intent crime, premeditated, deliberate? And the answer is -- if it was under the influence of alcohol or drugs, the answer would be no. So it could get you out of a first or even a second degree murder and put you back in manslaughter.

GRACE: No, John. No, John.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: If that were true -- oh, I`m sure that would be what the two of you would argue. But if that were true...

BURRIS: And it would work.

GRACE: ... every person in a jail and a prison today would claim, I was drunk, let me out of here.

(CROSSTALK)

GIUDICE: ... if you can prove it, Nancy.

BURRIS: It`s not a claim. You`ve got to prove it.

GIUDICE: You`ve got to prove it.

BURRIS: You just can`t say it`s true.

GRACE: OK, and I want to go back...

BURRIS: And if you do prove it -- I think I will say this. Her case is hurt because of the fact that if she did do this under the influence of drugs, the cover-up is always worse and that will bootstrap this case to another level, even though it might not justify she didn`t report it at the time.

GRACE: You know, I think that we could use a shrink right about now. Let`s go to Jeff Gardere, psychologist and author. Dr. Gardere, in a nutshell, when you spot someone -- a dead body or someone in distress -- would your immediate reaction be to put the body into your trunk and go bury it in a swampy area? I don`t think so.

JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: The immediate reaction would be to call a police officer, get some help right away. If nothing else, you may panic, but we...

GRACE: Panic? Panic? Panic? Panic and try to save the child, not panic and try to bury the body.

GARDERE: No, no.

GRACE: That is incomprehensible!

GARDERE: That`s correct. Panic in that you would call 911. You may not be able to say exactly what`s going on because you may fall into some sort of an emotional state where you can`t explain yourself. But no, you would not bury the body in that kind of a situation.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Dan in Georgia. Hi, Dan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Hi, Nancy. How`re you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just had a question. The fact that her mom already had a dead body -- or pieces of a dead body in her trunk, you know, whether or not it`s Caylee or not, why hasn`t she been charged with driving around with, you know, pieces of a dead body in her trunk, a decaying body?

GRACE: You know, that is an interesting question. Let`s go back out to the lawyers. To John Burris. The forensic tests show that there was a decomposing human in that car trunk. What can authorities do with that?

BURRIS: Well, the only thing they can do is do the DNA and try to determine if they have some way to match up who that body belongs to. But I don`t think just because it`s there, doesn`t mean she did it. If it`s somebody else`s body, well, then, that`s even worse.

GRACE: Let`s just play this out...

BURRIS: You have to take that evidence...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Let me look at John Burris, please. Can you put him and Giudice up on the screen? I want to see these faces. Burris, let`s play out your scenario. So there`s somebody else dead in the trunk? Is that what you`re telling me, there`s another dead person?

BURRIS: I`m saying it could be. I mean...

GRACE: Who?

BURRIS: ... obviously, I would think...

GRACE: Who!

BURRIS: ... that you`d have the issue on the child. I mean, I don`t know. If it`s -- the point is...

GRACE: I don`t know.

BURRIS: ... the government has to prove that she has some connection to it.

GRACE: OK...

BURRIS: If it`s the child, it`s probably an easier case for them to prove than if it`s some other person...

GRACE: Right.

BURRIS: ... -because she has control of the child.

GIUDICE: Nancy...

GRACE: Ray, throw me a bone here.

GIUDICE: Well, look...

GRACE: I mean, Burris is drinking the Kool-Aid.

GIUDICE: Well, I mean, the problem is that from the defense standpoint, it`s a total uphill battle and all you`d be looking on the defense is to try to break that linkage and try to argue, Hey, it was some boyfriend that killed the child and threw it in the back of her car, or something to that effect. And obviously, John is looking for great defenses because this is a heck of a problem and a bad case.

GRACE: Well, I got a problem, and I`m going to throw it to Lawrence Kobilinsky. Everyone, renowned forensic scientist joining us out of New York, Lawrence Kobilinsky. Dr. Kobilinsky, it is very clear -- and I have the police statement right here in my hands. They state that forensic evidence shows scientific evidence of human decomposition in the trunk of the defendant`s car. They say lab evidence and additional evidence that has not been made public leads them to believe Caylee is no longer with us. What do they have, Koby (ph)?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, that`s quite an important statement. We haven`t seen any real reports yet. And we have to be sure that the testing is reliable. Now, we know mitochondrial DNA analysis has been shown to be reliable. But on the other hand, the air testing is something that we really need to learn more about. I mean, testing this and indicating absolutely that there`s human decomposition -- that`s a huge leap and could make the difference in this case.

GRACE: They`ve probably gotten that from the hair. We know that for a fact, that the hair is from a dead person.

KOBILINSKY: Well, again, I haven`t seen their physical evidence. But we do know that hair from somebody who was deceased will develop a banding pattern. And under the microscope, it looks like a dark band. It`s actually parallel lines of air sacs, very interesting. And the problem is, is there`s not a lot of research done on this. We really doesn`t know what other conditions might cause such a banding pattern in hair, although what we know now is that, certainly, it does form between 8 hours and 3 days. It gets darker and darker. So there`s a good indication that it comes from decomposition, but a lot of questions.

GRACE: Koby, isn`t it true that defense attorney Jose Baez has contacted you?

KOBILINSKY: That`s true. That`s true.

GRACE: About what?

KOBILINSKY: Well, you know, he`s -- has an uphill battle, as you just heard, and he wants some advisement on forensics. I`m a neutral person. Whether I`m contacted by the defense or prosecution, I`m going to say the same thing. So if I have something important to say, Jose will hear about it.

GRACE: So right now, she`s only charged with child neglect. She`s not charged with murder at this juncture. So why is he asking a renowned forensic scientist like yourself for advice?

KOBILINSKY: Well, I think a good defense attorney is going to look at all the physical evidence, and if there are issues about reliability as to whether the tests have been validated and properly performed, the only resort he has is to come to somebody like me who could give him some advice on that.

GRACE: What was his most grave concern?

KOBILINSKY: Well, I don`t think we really discussed anything in particular. I think it`s the whole case. It certainly looks like a case that the prosecution is going to -- the prosecutor is going to move forward with the claim that the child was murdered and that there`s decomposition. But I think you`ve got to prove that, of course, in a court of law. I`m not a lawyer, but from a scientific perspective, I`d like to be sure that the tests are reliable and validated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... refusal to talk comes just two days after sheriff`s investigators announced for the first time that forensic evidence from Casey`s car tells them that Caylee is no longer alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These things together lead our investigators to believe that Caylee is most likely deceased.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, did you kill Caylee?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And of course silence. She hasn`t uttered one word in the direction of, Let`s go find Caylee, not one word.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A fleet of squad cars pulls up. They cuff Casey Anthony. They put her in a squad car and they zoom away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey was stone-faced, as usual. There was no changed emotion. She didn`t look like she was sad. She didn`t look like she was angry. She just had a very straight face about her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. The deadline for the so-called immunity deal for mom, Casey Anthony, has passed. It has come and gone. We are taking your calls live.

Right now, I want to go to special guest, the head of Texas Equusearch, searching for Caylee, out beating the bushes to find the 3- year-old little girl. Tim Miller, thank you for being with us. It`s great to see you. How did the search go today?

TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: You know what, Nancy? The search went well today, but -- and I don`t watch a lot of media stuff. But right now, you know, it appears as though I probably need to pull off of this search.

GRACE: Why do you say that?

MILLER: Well, the reason I say that -- I don`t watch a lot of media stuff. I just -- like, I come in open-minded. And if Casey, in fact, gave that child to somebody that she trusted, I am very upset that she did not at least get their name and phone number because we`re getting calls from people across America that really want us to look for their child that`s really missing.

GRACE: OK, wait! Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait~! Wait! Why are you considering pulling off the search?

MILLER: Well, I am saying, if Casey got us out here and she gave that child to somebody she trusted and will not give up the name and phone number, and wasting our resources for somebody that really needs us...

GRACE: Do you believe that, Tim? Do you believe that?

MILLER: You know what? I will do anything for this family.

GRACE: Tim? Tim?

MILLER: I`ll do anything for any family. But I`m upset.

GRACE: Tim? Tim, do you believe Caylee is still alive?

MILLER: I am very open-minded. I met with Cindy today. And you know what? We have got people in...

GRACE: I understand she was very angry at you today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not blindsided. They`ve been doing this from day one, guys. You guys have fed right into their hands. Let`s just find Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor. I smelled rotten whatever it was, something decomposing in there. Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

I know what I know. Caylee is not dead. Air samples don`t mean anything.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight back out to Tim Miller, the head of Texas Equusearch. Tim, is it true that you are not getting cooperation and are therefore considering pulling out of the search?

MILLER: Well, you know what? If this is true, what is being said right now, that she gave that child to somebody she trusts -- I can`t imagine anybody giving their child to somebody they trust without getting at least a name and phone number.

GRACE: Oh, OK. Hold on.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: If you could just address -- are you getting cooperation?

MILLER: You know what? I`m not asking for cooperation from that family.

GRACE: Are you getting cooperation?

MILLER: They`re going through a very tough -- I do not ask them for anything. I understand -- remember, Nancy, I lost my own child. And you know what? I did not know...

GRACE: Tim...

MILLER: ... what to do at that time, so...

GRACE: Is it true that you told me point blank you are not getting cooperation from the Anthony family or their lawyers?

MILLER: Well, you know what? But I`m not asking for that. I mean, if they had any information to give, I would hope they`d come forward. And I`d believe them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you called in and says, it smelled like there`s a dead body in my daughter`s car, what did you say that for? Because you know there was a dead body there.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: No, I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have evidence that we have not yet made public that leads our investigators to believe that Caylee is deceased.

C. ANTHONY: There`s no new developments. Absolutely, she knows who has her. I know she`s alive and I know she`s out there. She`s coming home. She`s leading you to a place but she`s not telling you to the right exact location to which apartment it is because she`s afraid if someone walks in that something may happen to Caylee.

My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half-truths but she is not a murderer. There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots it stunk so bad.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cindy, but these dogs are trained to find dead bodies, Cindy.

C. ANTHONY: The same dog that cleared our house cleared them. There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child. She lived with me for three years. I`ve never seen anything. She is not dead.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Everything she says doesn`t make any sense.

C. ANTHONY: I don`t know. I`m not in Casey`s head. I`m not a psychiatrist. I thought I was here today to discuss Caylee, not to defend my -- what my daughter is doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Joining us right now is a very special guest, grandmother, Cindy Anthony.

Miss Anthony, thank you for being with us.

C. ANTHONY: Hey, Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good. And I want you to know that many of us are continuing to pray and think of you and your husband and Caylee.

I understand you want to respond?

C. ANTHONY: Well, yes. I was listening to Tim Miller. I`d like to answer the question that he kind of didn`t answer for you.

GRACE: OK.

C. ANTHONY: I`m the one that called Tim Miller and actually someone told me about him three or four weeks ago. And I thought all he did was body searches, you know, after, you know, people had been deceased or if you knew a specific area.

And I waited until the urging last week, again, from several people to call him because they said, no, he can do, you know, live searches, too. So Tim came out here with the understanding that, you know, we believe that Caylee is alive and that we wanted him to assist us in looking for her as a live person.

So we have been fully cooperating with him. In fact, I`ve given him many locations, including today, you know, locations in Dallas where we`ve gotten numerous tips verified from FBI today, numerous tips that, you know, have been reaching out since early -- you know, the first week after Caylee was found out she was missing.

In fact, some of them found out on your own show that she was missing and some of them haven`t been followed up. And now they`re being followed up. So I just wanted to, you know, assure you that we have been cooperating with Tim.

Casey was under full instruction not to speak to outside, you know, people, even including the family, so that we weren`t put in any jeopardy of, you know, obstructing justice if she told us something.

So she`s not going to cooperate with anybody other than her attorneys and maybe anybody he appoints on his staff that has confidentiality. So that`s going to kind of clear that up a little bit.

GRACE: Miss Anthony, I know that you want more volunteers to show up to search. Is that correct?

C. ANTHONY: No. Actually, I don`t. I think it`s a waste of time searching in the woods behind, you know -- back by the airport and all that because, you know, I know Caylee is alive.

I`ve gotten many people calling in and saying that they`ve seen Caylee. What I would like people to do is continue to get the word out and continue to look for her. And we`ve got -- I`ve gotten probably over 100 phone calls today from people that are supporting us and that are continuing in that -- those efforts just today alone.

So, you know, I`m not surprised that a lot of people aren`t showing up to search the woods, because a lot of people don`t believe that she`s out in the woods, that she`s buried. They believe that she`s alive and breathing. And that`s what we need to do is look for a little girl that`s out there, you know, maybe at a restaurant or a store or a park or whatever.

And if we continue to, you know, look at evidence that hasn`t been verified like your forensics specialist said, none of this has been verified. You guys are going to put the coffin -- Caylee in a coffin because eventually something is going to happen to her if we don`t find her.

So let`s not look at speculation. Let`s not convict someone before they`ve even been brought up on charges. Let`s look for Caylee because that`s what Tim is supposed to be here for and that`s what my goal is to get everybody out here looking for her.

GRACE: Well, Miss Anthony, I know that there are cases such as Elizabeth Smart.

C. ANTHONY: Absolutely.

GRACE: . such as Shasta Groene, where they have been written off as most likely dead and then a miracle occurs and they are found alive.

C. ANTHONY: Absolutely.

GRACE: However, in those cases, there were -- there was no evidence of a decomposing body in the car trunk.

C. ANTHONY: Well, again, your forensics specialist said none of that has been verified. You know who is leaking that? You know, people are leaking information -- Orange County said last week they don`t leak information.

They`ve been leaking information strategically. They leaked it last Wednesday because they thought Thursday was the deadline for her immunity, when, in fact, the immunity got pushed out until today. And then they pushed it again all this weekend, because they thought that Caylee -- Casey would break.

She`s not going to break when she`s telling them the truth that she does not know where Caylee is at.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know if it`s leaking. But Captain Angelo Nieves of Orange County Sheriff`s Office gave an official public statement stating the FBI provided scientific evidence of human decomposition in the trunk of Casey Anthony.

Point blank -- I just read it.

C. ANTHONY: Hair follicle or whatever, none of that has been verified.

GRACE: From the FBI lab?

C. ANTHONY: We -- you know, your forensics specialist himself said none of that`s been verified.

GRACE: No. No, no.

C. ANTHONY: You know, even that hair samples.

GRACE: He did not say -- he said some of the evidence. He would want to verify before he gave his expert opinion. But the FBI crime lab states point blank that there is scientific evidence of human decomposition in Casey`s car trunk.

C. ANTHONY: I would love to know what it is. Are we talking about urine? I mean, I myself put dirty diapers back there from Caylee until we`ve gotten home and throw them away. You know when the dog hit on Caylee`s play house, I asked them is it because she peed in her play house?

And they said possibly because they didn`t find anything buried under her play house.

GRACE: To Lawrence Kobilinsky, our forensic specialist joining us tonight, is there any way that a dirty diaper or a urine soaked diaper could show up as human decomposition in a test?

Could you please clarify what you said earlier? Maybe I misunderstood you.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: No, no, Nancy. I think a diaper urine would not be mistaken for decomposition. I believe that the kind of air sampling that was done.

GRACE: I`m not talking about the air sampling.

KOBILINSKY: I`m sorry. The hair?

GRACE: I`m talking about the hair, yes.

KOBILINSKY: Yes. Well, you know, if in fact they found hair with a banding pattern and if they can demonstrate that that comes from Caylee, then, you know, they`ve got some very strong physical, although circumstantial evidence.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, you`re one step ahead of me, because this report regarding the FBI crime lab does not state that the decomposing body was Caylee. It simply says, point blank, there is scientific evidence of human decomposition in Casey Anthony`s car trunk.

KOBILINSKY: Yes. Nancy, if they did mitochondrial DNA analysis, that`s not -- that doesn`t give you a unique profile.

GRACE: Do you have a reason to doubt the FBI scientific lab?

KOBILINSKY: Oh, I think they`re a fine laboratory. But even they will admit that the mitochondrial profiles are not unique.

GRACE: Nobody said mitochondrial.

KOBILINSKY: Oh well.

GRACE: I`m just asking you if you have a reason to doubt their veracity.

KOBILINSKY: I don`t know.

GRACE: OK.

KOBILINSKY: I have no reason to believe they would lie, of course not.

GRACE: Let`s go back to Miss Anthony.

Joining us is Caylee`s grandmother, Cindy Anthony. And I want to clarify, she believes the little girl is still alive and she wants help findings her alive.

C. ANTHONY: I do.

GRACE: Miss Anthony, now that I have gone back to Lawrence Kobilinsky, what do you think?

C. ANTHONY: Well, here`s my feel. No one`s 100 percent sure of anything, correct? Until they`re 100 percent sure of anything, why the heck are we not looking for Caylee as a live person? That`s my thing.

GRACE: Well, I`ll tell you why. I`ll tell you why. And this is just my lay person`s and trial lawyer`s opinion. And that is, it`s been very clear -- and you`re right. You stated a liar does not a murderer make.

But when you are lying about the whereabouts of your little girl who is missing, that has made the public doubt anything your daughter is saying.

C. ANTHONY: And, again, people are speculating that she`s lying about her whereabouts. Casey states and she`s maintained from day one without flinching that she does not know where Caylee is at.

In fact, one of our tips matches the descriptions of the people that took Caylee.

GRACE: Well, didn`t she tell people all.

C. ANTHONY: And that tip was a month ago.

GRACE: Did she tell all along that Caylee was at the amusement park, that Caylee was with you, that Caylee was at these various places and none of that was true.

C. ANTHONY: No. What she told the sheriff`s department all along was that she was kidnapped by Zenaida and, you know -- and that`s what she`s maintained. She told me, you know, some things during the month of June because she was trying to look for her and tried to get her back herself.

And when that didn`t work, that`s when, you know, she was -- you know, came clean with the other. But, again, the description of the person that she described to the police on July 16th is the same description of that Dallas tip.

GRACE: Miss Anthony.

C. ANTHONY: . and they`re just now following that up and that tip came up a month ago.

GRACE: . who is Zenaida Gonzalez? Every Zenaida Gonzalez police have searched into is not anywhere near what your daughter is saying.

C. ANTHONY: That`s not entirely true. There`s a lot of them that`s out there that we`re still investigating.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

GRACE: With us tonight is Caylee`s grandmother, Cindy Anthony. We are taking your calls live.

Back out to Miss Anthony.

Cindy, I understand that you yourself have been looking for Caylee. Where have you been looking and what tips have you turned up?

C. ANTHONY: Well, you know, I actually looked around some, you know, places here locally, ruled out a few places. But mainly what I`m going off of is what people call in to me and then I follow up on them.

Have to follow up on, you know, agencies that are supposed to be following up. I had one the other day that called missing persons in Dallas and the guy said he was waiting for Orange County for the last month to tell him it was OK to follow up on a tip.

So I spend a lot of my time chasing other authorities trying to make sure they follow up on tips people have called in. And I only have about three or four dozen tips called in to me that have already been called in to other authorities.

Orange County said there`s over 1500 tips. What I would like to challenge you guys is why can`t we make those public record so we can all follow up on them, make sure that they have been -- I mean, everything else has been out there, you know, with disclosure.

I mean the first 471 pages is out there. Why can`t we have some of these tips so that the people know where she`s been spotted and then the average person can go follow up and make sure that everybody is doing their job? And that way justice can be served for Caylee.

GRACE: Where -- Cindy, based on the information that you`re getting from tips, where are you looking? Where do you believe Caylee is?

C. ANTHONY: Well, right now, my gut is either she`s in Texas, Mexico or Puerto Rico. I think she`s somewhere down there. A month ago, I would have thought she might have been up around New York. But right now I think she`s somewhere in Texas or even Puerto Rico.

GRACE: Miss Anthony, what do you make of police saying point blank that they believe Caylee is deceased?

C. ANTHONY: Well, you know, when I asked them -- I asked them -- I asked them that last week. And they said -- I asked them, is there still a chance that she`s living and breathing and they said yes. I said, if there`s still a chance she`s living and breathing, then, you know, I want you to -- are you going to continue to follow every tip? And they said absolutely.

So with that in hand, if there`s still a chance that she`s out there living and breathing, all I`m asking is that everybody give Caylee that chance and actually continue to look for her. So until they can prove to me 100 percent otherwise, until all the evidence comes in and I actually know what the evidence is, and satisfy in my mind that she`s not out there, I`m not going to let her go as long as I have a breath in my body.

Because if she`s out there and no one`s looking for her and she`s missing us, I`m going to find her. I`m going to find her. And that`s what every good mother.

GRACE: You know.

C. ANTHONY: . or grandmother would want to do.

GRACE: Did you ever get a satisfying explanation as to why Casey did not report her missing immediately?

C. ANTHONY: Yes. She maintains that she was threatened, that Caylee`s life is being threatened. And I think that`s why she`s been very cautious with what she says. And, you know, some people don`t understand that. But I understand it with the people that she`s described to me.

A lot of stuff, you know -- a lot of stuff we can`t release out to the public, but what we can release is where we`re looking. And, you know, ask the detectives why they never did a -- put a description out there of people.

You know, they think that the person doesn`t exist, but they determined that at 12:30 on July the 16th, just a few hours after talking to her, without investigating any of the Zenaidas or anybody else.

And, you know, that`s very sad that this little girl for the whole months of July and almost all of August, you know, didn`t have someone actually going to bat for her.

GRACE: Well, and -- but you cannot discount.

C. ANTHONY: . because they were.

GRACE: But you cannot discount, Mike Brooks, that for a solid month police didn`t even know she was missing because the mom didn`t call her in.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Exactly. And, Nancy, she took police over to the apartment where she supposedly gave Caylee away to this -- the babysitter. But, Nancy, that apartment had been vacant for 142 days.

She also said that she, on July 15th, had received a phone call and talked to Caylee. Cell phone records say no incoming calls at all on that day. You know, it`s just been lie after lie after lie. And if she did give Caylee to someone that she, quote, "trusted," who is this person? She needs to cooperate with police.

That`s the bottom line, Nancy.

GRACE: Miss Anthony, response?

C. ANTHONY: He`s assuming that he knows the stuff. Why don`t he pull her phone record and see how many incoming phone calls she had that day? She`s going to be.

GRACE: Don`t you have the records?

C. ANTHONY: There was five phone calls, incoming phone calls during that time.

GRACE: Well, don`t you have the records, Miss Anthony?

C. ANTHONY: I have them. I see them -- those incoming phone calls.

GRACE: Well, then why don`t you release them?

C. ANTHONY: And you know what, we`re following up on those. Unfortunately we`re following up on those.

GRACE: But why don`t you release them? Show that police are wrong in this sworn affidavit that say those calls didn`t come in. I`ve got the answer...

C. ANTHONY: Well, yes, maybe we do need to start releasing some things. Let`s release some of the tips.

GRACE: I mean.

C. ANTHONY: Let`s release some of the other stuff so people can start looking on their own.

GRACE: Do you really think police.

C. ANTHONY: . to see what they have and haven`t done.

GRACE: . would lie about incoming phone calls?

C. ANTHONY: I`m not saying they`re lying. But the records speak for themselves. I have a copy of the phone records. And in fact some of my -- there are some of my calls to her that don`t even show up on her phone records.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: With us tonight, bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla. Weigh in.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED GET CASEY ANTHONY OUT OF JAIL: Well, here`s the situation, Nancy. I believe that when the FBI, who`s got one of the finest labs in the world comes back with the DNA it`s going to shock the world over something that Lee, Casey and Cindy have known since Wednesday when they released their preliminary.

GRACE: Which is?

PADILLA: . findings. And also the dumpster, a mile and a quarter down from the boyfriend Tony`s house, is going to play a big part in this.

GRACE: What do you say in response to Miss Anthony?

PADILLA: She`s living in total denial.

GRACE: Everyone, joining us tonight, Cindy Anthony.

Miss Anthony, again, our prayers are with you and your husband and, of course, little Caylee.

Let`s stop and remember Army Colonel Stephen Scott, 54, New Market, Alabama, killed, Iraq on a second tour. Awarded the Bronze Star and Purple Heart. Worked two years at the Pentagon before serving in Iraq where he helped train and equip the Iraqi army.

Devoted to family and fellow soldiers, loved fast cars, motorcycles, to jogging five miles every day. Leaves behind grieving parents, Patricia and Kenneth, sister Kathleen, brother Mark, daughters Rebecca and Rachael.

Stephen Scott, American hero.

Thank you to all of our guests. But our biggest thank you to you for being with us and happy birthday to a Vegas friend of the show, Miyun Clemens fighting valiantly sickle cell anemia. She is more of a hero in her short lifetime so far than many of us will ever be.

Happy birthday, little Miyun.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Chloroform Traces Said Found in Missing Toddler`s Mother`s Car

Aired September 3, 2008

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. Traces of the powerful chemical solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey Anthony`s, trunk. This while sources confirm mom, Casey`s, computer reveals multiple visits to Web sites on chloroform. Now we learn even more criminal charges filed against mom, Casey, for cleaning out a so-called friend`s checking account. This as investigators go on the record, confirming there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee.

Tonight, more lies uncovered by mom, Casey, these lies regarding the car, the car that has suddenly become the centerpiece of the state`s investigation. And what does it mean that today local sheriffs put up thousands of dollars to continue to search through swamps, through forests and bodies of water for little Caylee? Is a Sacramento bounty hunter actually reposting a $500,000 bond to get mom, Casey, out from behind bars? Why? All this while little Caylee`s grandparents insist she is alive and likely in Texas, Puerto Rico or Mexico. Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stunning developments tonight in the case of missing tot Caylee Anthony. Evidence reportedly shows traces of chloroform found in mother Casey Anthony`s car. Her computer, confiscated by police after her July arrest, shows someone was searching Web sites for information about chloroform.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony was on national TV saying that -- demanding an apology from the sheriff`s office.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I want an apology from Kevin Feery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It won`t happen. Won`t happen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re doing our job. What we need is credible information, especially from her daughter. And that`s a message I`ll send back to her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Also, a California bounty hunter says he will put up Casey Anthony`s bond for a second time if she says where little Caylee is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Regardless whether she`s alive or passed away, we need to find Caylee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Breaking news tonight. A source close to the investigation says there is evidence of traces of chloroform in the car of Caylee Anthony`s mother. Police confiscated Casey Anthony`s computer after her July arrest and found visits to Web sites with information about chloroform.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots and stunk so bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an overpowering smell (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have forensic evidence that has been returned to us regarding the vehicle. Preliminary evidence indicates that there is decomposition in that vehicle from a human body.

CINDY ANTHONY: Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Maybe my daughter ran over something.

CINDY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE)

If we continue to, you know, look at evidence that hasn`t been verified, you guys are going to put Caylee in a coffin because, eventually, something`s going to happen to her if we don`t find her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found hair samples in the trunk of the car that are similar in length and color to that of Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information that we`ve got back from the FBI lab indicating that -- you know, that she was in the trunk of that car and that she`s dead certainly is information we take very seriously.

GEORGE ANTHONY: The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car is not my granddaughter!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to the search command center. Standing by, our producer Natisha Lance. Natisha, this is some of the worst news that has come down regarding the chloroform story that you have confirmed. Explain to me, chloroform?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy. According to a source that I spoke to today, preliminary FBI lab results are saying that chloroform was found in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. And in addition to that, there was a history of searches on her computer that was confiscated by police that indicated that someone had been searching for chloroform.

GRACE: Out to famed forensic scientist Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky. Koby (ph), explain to us, what is chloroform?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, chloroform is a compound. Chemically, it has three chlorine groups. Essentially, it is a great solvent. It`s been used for the purpose of anesthesia in the past. It`s a known carcinogen. And it has a lot of different uses, one of which is the isolation of DNA. Laboratories that do DNA analysis use chloroform...

GRACE: Koby! Koby! Isn`t it true that many, many years ago, chloroform was outlawed for consumer use in the U.S.?

KOBILINSKY: That`s correct. Absolutely correct.

GRACE: Where do you find it?

KOBILINSKY: You can find it in hospitals. You can find it in forensic labs. You can find it in private DNA laboratories. Industry still uses chloroform as a de-greasing agent, but it is not available to the average person.

GRACE: In fact, it was outlawed back in the `70s, banned in the U.S. for consumer use. It is a solvent.

KOBILINSKY: That`s correct. And it`s a carcinogen. It`s very hazardous. It`s very volatile. You can easily breathe it in, and if you get too much, not only will you get dizzy, fatigued, but you will fall asleep. And ultimately, if you continue to breathe it in, your heart will stop and you will die.

GRACE: Back to our producer, Natisha Lance, standing by at the search command center. Natisha, you`re telling me that this is a result of the FBI report on what was found in mom, Casey`s, trunk. Chloroform in her trunk?

LANCE: Yes. This is according to the preliminary results that have come out so far.

GRACE: OK. Dr. Kobilinsky, can you give me one innocent explanation why chloroform would be in someone`s trunk? And they said chloroform. They did not say a pool cleaner. They did not say a solvent. They said the ingredient chloroform had been found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. Why?

KOBILINSKY: That`s a very tough question. There are instances where chloroform can form as a result of a combination of bleach and ethanol or other alcohols. It could be a very small amount. We need to know how much was found. And also, we need to know if it was simply a contaminant that was picked up on this test, a contaminant, meaning...

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Let me see Kobilinsky! Are you telling me that you want to see if the FBI laboratory contaminated a sample from mom, Casey`s, car trunk with chloroform? Did I -- did I -- please hold onto your good reputation~!

KOBILINSKY: OK. Chloroform is a very commonly used agent in crime labs. And I don`t think that the FBI made a mistake, but to err is human. The FBI has made mistakes before. I`m not saying they did in this case.

GRACE: Why are you doing a back bend tonight? You did it last night, too.

KOBILINSKY: No. No, I didn`t do a back bend.

GRACE: You`re doing a back bend to try to give an innocent explanation for something that is lethal, that is deadly!

KOBILINSKY: It certainly -- I agree with you. It does not look -- there`s no innocent explanation that I can think of, other than a contaminant or that it may have formed, you know, as a result of bleach and...

GRACE: How would that happen? How did you get bleach and ethanol? Did you just say bleach and ethanol?

KOBILINSKY: Yes. I`m not saying the probability is high that that happened.

GRACE: Now, how could that happen? How could you get bleach and ethanol in somebody`s car trunk, and suddenly, you have chloroform?

KOBILINSKY: Well, I think it`s an unlikely possibility, but it`s a possibility. You can get somebody trying to clean the trunk using bleach and perhaps in contact with ethanol. It`s not...

GRACE: Ethanol. Where would you get ethanol to clean a car trunk?

KOBILINSKY: Well, beer, wine...

GRACE: So you`re saying ethanol and bleach equals chloroform?

KOBILINSKY: Yes, I`m saying it`s possible. I`m not saying it`s probable, but it`s possible.

GRACE: OK. Give me the likelihood, Doctor -- give me the likelihood that that could have happened, that you could combine bleach with ethanol in a car trunk and get chloroform.

KOBILINSKY: I think the probability is low, but it`s a possibility.

GRACE: OK. You know what? Let`s go with that. Let`s unleash the lawyers. With me tonight, Atlanta defense attorney Renee Rockwell. Also with me, veteran trial lawyer out of New York Alan Ripka. Let`s just put that little scenario to a test and combine it with the computer search on Casey Anthony`s computer, seized by police, that shows multiple visits to Web sites, Alan Ripka, about chloroform.

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, obviously, it`s a tough one, Nancy. However, I think you have to go a step further and you have to wonder, What is she doing with chloroform? Why would she need it? Why would she use it? If you`re indicating that she ordered chloroform off the Internet in order to kill her daughter, I have to disagree with you totally. And I have to say...

GRACE: Why?

RIPKA: ... there`s a reasonable explanation for the chloroform.

GRACE: Really? What?

RIPKA: It`s not a likely scenario that -- if you want to kill someone, you don`t need to order chloroform to do it.

GRACE: No, no, no, no, no! Explain to me the innocent explanation of ordering chloroform, if that`s when she was doing, off the Internet.

RIPKA: Well, right now, we know we have no evidence that she ordered it from the Internet, but if she did...

GRACE: No, no! Just wait! You just said, Ripka -- you just said there`s an innocent explanation if she ordered it off the Internet. Give me the explanation.

RIPKA: I think there`s an explanation, Nancy, because...

GRACE: Right. And it would be what?

RIPKA: The alternate explanation is, is that she bought it to kill her daughter, which I think is highly unlikely and thus...

GRACE: Alan?

RIPKA: Yes?

GRACE: What`s the innocent explanation?

RIPKA: Well, whatever you can use chloroform for, other than killing, is the explanation...

GRACE: Cleaning a pool? It`s in some pool solvent?

RIPKA: Well, I don`t know. It is a de-greaser. It is used for different things. I don`t know what she was working on. I don`t know what she was doing with it.

GRACE: OK. Renee, give me your best shot.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s also a narcotic. But I can say this. In 28 years of practice...

GRACE: It is not allowed for consumer use.

ROCKWELL: That`s correct. But I have never heard the word chloroform except on the television, but you`re jumping to the conclusion that it was her that had the chloroform and that it was her that...

GRACE: Really? Well, it was her computer! It was her computer and in her car trunk. So give me...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Go ahead. You know, if you weren`t such a good defense attorney, I would advise you join Cirque du Soleil because you`re certainly doing a contortion tonight.

ROCKWELL: But Nancy, that does not mean that she`s the bad guy in this deal.

GRACE: Really? Somebody snuck in and used her computer?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, I`m pretty sure you`re not the only one that uses your computer.

GRACE: My laptop? Oh, yes, I am!

ROCKWELL: She might not be the only one that uses her laptop.

GRACE: OK. So now I guess you`re...

ROCKWELL: And she might not be the only one that...

GRACE: You`re roping in her parents into this thing.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Let me go back to Natisha Lance. I want to clear up what Renee Rockwell has just thrown out. Natisha, the computer that was seized of Casey Anthony`s, was it a laptop or was it a desktop?

LANCE: It was a laptop computer.

GRACE: I want to go back out to Nikki Pierce, who has joined us many, many nights from WDBO. Nikki, I also understand that searches, very intensive searches, have resumed today, and today the local sheriffs have put up thousands of dollars to help fund these searches. Where are the searches?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: The searches have been in several different areas. They checked Blanchard Park, which was a park that had been mentioned that Casey had taken Caylee to. They also searched a landfill. They searched some areas that were directed by the Orange County sheriff`s office by the Orlando International Airport because one of the cell phone records placed her out there in an unidentified area.

GRACE: Also with me tonight, Tim Miller. You all know Tim Miller. Not only is he a crime victim, he took that grief and became the head of Texas Equusearch. He is searching for little Caylee. Last night, I learned that Tim Miller wanted to come off the search, was going to pack up and go home. He told me that he was not getting cooperation from the Anthony family or from the lawyers in his search. Tim, you`ve decided to stay. Why?

TIM MILLER, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Well, I actually got a call this morning, Nancy, from the sheriff himself, and he said, Would you please do me a favor? And I said, Whatever I can do. And he said, Please continue this search. He said, We feel as though your organization is the only organization that`s capable of finding little Caylee`s body, if she is out there. He said the sheriff department is bringing in many airboats for us, many horses for us. He said, We know you`ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars on this, and he said, We want to go ahead and give you $5,000 to help you support this search.

And he did a huge plea to the community to get involved in this search, come out and help. And I think we are going to end up and have that search for this little girl that we was hoping we could have, with every resource in the world and a thousand people or more. So I`m optimistic. You know, I would like -- you asked me a question last night, Nancy, do I believe that Caylee`s dead? And I want to answer that. You know, I had some respect for this family at that time. And no, I do not believe that Caylee is alive. I believe Caylee is within three miles of where we are sitting right now, a three-mile radius. And we will cover every...

GRACE: Tim...

MILLER: ... single square inch...

GRACE: Tim, why do you say that? Why do you believe that she`s within a three-mile radius?

MILLER: I just think that. I mean, with the areas that we`ve got -- again, it`s no secret where the towers are that her cell phone went off of, and it`s putting it kind of close to where we are right now, so -- and there`s no guarantee of that, of course, but we will cover every square inch and then we`ll work out from there. But everybody is determined to focus on this and go ahead and see if we can bring this little baby home and...

GRACE: You are seeing the -- you are seeing the search locations where Tim Miller of Texas Equusearch is searching.

To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Drew, the local sheriff anted up thousands of dollars today to help pay for the search. Where`d they get the money?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: That`s actually confiscated drug money. And not only did he donate that $5,000, he helped organize a team of horseback- riding cops to search on mounted horseback, and also airboats, because if you look at the area out there, it`s a swampy area, and with the rains that we`ve had, there`s a lot of flooded areas out there where they can use airboats to search.

GRACE: And Drew, isn`t it true that various Moose lodges, the men of various Moose lodges, are joining together to help in the search?

PETRIMOULX: That`s not something that I`ve heard.

GRACE: What do you know about that, Nikki Pierce?

PIERCE: I`ve heard that some Moose lodges have been involved in the search. It was recently released that Moose lodge members from all over this area are going to be joining Equusearch to pitch in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The initial evidence, even though it`s not totally conclusive, has come back with some decomposition of a body. I hope that`s not the case because I`m a dad. But the bottom line is real simple. We need to try to find some closure on this case. That`s what we need to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I know what I know. Caylee is not dead. If you guys...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony feels her granddaughter Caylee is alive, even with test results indicating there was a dead body in the back of mother Casey Anthony`s car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s living in total denial.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have hope right now?

CINDY ANTHONY: Absolutely, just as much as I did last week.

Right now, I think she`s somewhere in Texas or even Puerto Rico.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Bombshell tonight. Tonight we learn from sources that in FBI reports, traces of chloroform, a highly, highly dangerous chemical solution, were found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk.

And also -- back to you, Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the search command center. What more can you tell me about those multiple searches on mom, Casey`s, computer about chloroform?

LANCE: Well, we don`t know exactly when those searches went through, Nancy. But what I can tell you is that this is a laptop that Casey had said to other people before that she used this for work purposes. So we don`t know...

GRACE: Work? Work? What work? I know of three jobs she`s lied about, the job at Universal, the job at the Fusian club and the job at Sports Authority. None of that was true.

LANCE: That`s correct.

GRACE: So what was she using the computer for, other than to go to Web sites about chloroform?

LANCE: She was also using the computer to go on Facebook and MySpace.

GRACE: OK, wa-wa-wa-wait. Forget about that. Was she searching about how to buy it, how to use it, how to create it. What were the searches, Natisha?

LANCE: Those details haven`t been released as of yet, Nancy, but we just know that there has been a history of chloroform searches on the computer.

GRACE: And we know that these searches were discovered on or around July 16 when police seized the laptop, correct?

LANCE: That`s correct.

GRACE: But we don`t know when the searches occurred?

LANCE: That`s correct.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s still a chance she`s out there living and breathing. All I`m asking is that everybody give Caylee that chance and actually continue to look for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

GEORGE ANTHONY: You guys don`t know. The person The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car is not my granddaughter! So why don`t you guys get your -- get your facts straight!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Amy in Georgia. Hi, Amy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I have a comment and quick question. I cannot believe that they were going to offer her limited immunity in case it was an accident. I hear stories on the news all the time about 4 and 5- year-olds calling 911 when a parent was in distress. So if it was an accident and she didn`t call 911, doesn`t that show that she certainly contributed to the accident or implicates her in any way?

GRACE: Amy, if I even see a fender bender, I call 911 from my cell phone. So I agree with you. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doesn`t that show that that -- you know, that she at least contributed maybe to the accident?

GRACE: To Leslie Austin. Dr. Austin, what do you think?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, no, I don`t think you can necessarily say that. But what you can say is -- observe her behavior. She`s not been forthcoming on anything here, so I don`t think...

GRACE: Leslie, why are you saying that? Because if you saw somebody pass out on the sidewalk, what would you do...

AUSTIN: Of course I`d call 911.

GRACE: ... go bury their body? You would call 911?

AUSTIN: Of course, I would.

GRACE: Then why are you applying a double standard to Casey Anthony.

AUSTIN: You can`t draw a conclusion about what she did or didn`t do. We don`t know. We`re speculating.

GRACE: Well, maybe you can`t, but apparently, Amy in Georgia can, and I bet you my bottom dollar that a jury would do the same thing as Amy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you asked your daughter, where`s Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And where is she?

CINDY ANTHONY: She doesn`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?

CINDY ANTHONY: Because someone took her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who has her? Do you have a name?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.

CINDY ANTHONY: Zeny is the baby-sitter that has watched Caylee consistently for the last maybe year and a half.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The Zenaida Gonzalez that has been talked to us by Casey is nonexistent to this point.

ZENAIDA FERNANDEZ-GONZALEZ, ALLEGED BABYSITTER OF CAYLEE: I haven`t been able to get a job, haven`t been able to do much of nothing because everybody is just judging me by my name.

LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Did you ever call the baby- sitter on your -- on your cell phone, ever receive a call from the baby- sitter on your cell phone number?

CASEY ANTHONY: I most definitely did.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The affidavit says Casey`s cell phone record show no numbers belonging to a Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez.

CINDY ANTHONY: That`s a misstatement.

CASEY ANTHONY: They arrested me because they said that?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, because they said that the person that you dropped Caylee with doesn`t even exist.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. The news is bad. We have confirmed reports that the FBI indicates chloroform was found in the car trunk of mom Casey Anthony. This along with evidence that multiple searches to chloroform Web sites were found on her laptop bode ill.

Out to the lines, Nancy in Florida. Hi, Nancy.

NANCY, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

NANCY: Well, I have a statement and a question.

GRACE: OK.

NANCY: And my statement is that I think that this whole story came to fruition about what happened to that little girl when the grandparents found that car. They knew at that point. And then when Casey made the remark that they were going to blame this all on me.

And my question is, I think, right now, that the grandparents are covering up for Casey and I think that they need to be charged.

Is there any way they can be charged for helping to cover this up?

GRACE: You know, that`s a toughy, Nancy in Florida.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta, Alan Ripka out of New York.

Renee, under our jurisprudence system, there is no duty to be a Good Samaritan. There`s no duty to voluntarily go to police and tell what you know. I get the impression from the parents that they believe their daughter -- or let me rephrase. They want to believe their daughter.

What say you about possible criminal charges, Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Perfectly natural for them to want to protect their daughter. And, Nancy, the only way they`re going to get in trouble is if they try to run the police down some dead end road and tell them a story.

So if they do nothing -- if they do not obstruct or lie under oath, there are no charges.

GRACE: Alan?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, obviously, obstruction of justice is probably the only charge and they would have to lie or make up stories, as Renee has indicated. I see that as the only way of them getting in trouble.

And, look, they`re family and all families are going to stand behind their children at this time, Nancy.

GRACE: To John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies" -- John, there is such a thing as accessory after the fact, but they would have to do a lot more than just believe what Casey Anthony is telling them. They would have to actively hide evidence or mislead cops, as Rockwell just said.

JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": Yes, like the time she pulled off pants out of the car and then washed them. She would have been locked up at that point.

GRACE: Now, now, I disagree with that. Yes, it may have held evidence, but at that juncture, why was she to believe that there was forensic evidence on a pair of pants?

LUCICH: Oh, wait a second, this is a car that this woman just said that she thinks there`s a dead body in there and the first thing she did was tamper with evidence. That`s exactly what this woman did when she pulled that pair of pants out of it, took it home, and washed it before the cops found out about it.

I think that that right there, they should have done something and for some reason, they didn`t. She tampered with the crime scene.

GRACE: Let me ask you this, John Lucich. I want to talk to you about the computer search. Is there a way -- we all know at this juncture that the FBI report indicates chloroform, a highly toxic chemical solution, it has been banned from use in the U.S. for consumer purposes, way back in the `70s, found in mom Casey Anthony`s car trunk.

We also know her computer shows multiple searches to various chloroform Web sites. Can, for instance, Yahoo! or Google or similar search engines be subpoenaed for her searches? How would that work, in a nutshell?

LUCICH: First things first. There is absolutely no innocent reason why she needs to possess chloroform whatsoever and I think you`re going to be happy with that answer.

If she needed to clean something up, she wouldn`t have tried to buy a -- an illegal chemical or tried to make an illegal chemical when bleach could have done.

OK, number two. There`s only two reasons she could have used chloroform was because if she wants to knock her daughter out or she (INAUDIBLE) did something, or she wants to O.D. this little girl and kill her like Kobi said before.

Now they don`t need to go to Google, because everything you do in a Web browser is stored right on your hard drive. It`s cached and people think that because they empty the cookies -- because they delete the cache, that that`s all going to make that go away.

Whatever they do at Yahoo!, Google, is on that hard drive and that`s what they found. There`s no reason to go to those people.

GRACE: OK, let me ask you this, Lucich. Say you take your laptop, you put it in the front driveway and you beat it with a hammer.

LUCICH: No.

GRACE: Can you still get the information from the search engine such as Yahoo! or Google?

LUCICH: Absolutely.

GRACE: OK.

LUCICH: If you beat that computer up really, really bad, even if you submerge it in water, the only it`s going to -- if you break those platters, you`re pretty much done, but if you just damage that drive, we can pull those platters out, get the data off and recover it, one, two, three.

GRACE: Got it.

Joining us right now is bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. He helped Casey Anthony get out of jail on a $500,000 bond, helped get her back in jail by coming off that $500,000 bond.

Padilla, you told me that you do not believe the little girl is alive. And yet I`m hearing rumblings you`re going to go back on the bond and get her out?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED PUT CASEY ANTHONY BACK IN JAIL: No, no, that`s not true. What we`ve said to her brother, Lee, who`s constantly on the phone to us, is that if she came clean and told law enforcement where the child was and law enforcement went out and regained the body, we would treat it just like any other person accused of a crime who would want bail pending the proceedings.

GRACE: But wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on. Don`t move, Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, joining us out of Sacramento, California.

Alan Ripka, Renee Rockwell -- to you, Renee, aren`t there certain crimes that allow no bond, crimes such as premeditated capital murder?

ROCKWELL: Absolutely, Nancy. But she`s not charged with that. (INAUDIBLE) they can charge.

GRACE: No, no, but, hold on. Put on the brake, Miss Rockwell.

Alan Ripka, my point is, yes, I know she`s not charged with murder. What I`m saying is, if Padilla gives her the bond and she helps them find the body, once she helps them find the body, if there is a body, she`s going to be charged with murder one. No bond.

RIPKA: Well, she -- well, that`s right and she`ll be back. But, obviously, when she turned down the immunity deal, she gave up the chance that she wouldn`t be arrested. However, at this particular time, she`s not going to help them with anything. Because as soon as she helps them find the body, she`s arrested and she`s in, and that`s the end of the whole story, Nancy.

GRACE: Out to the lines.

ROCKWELL: How can you say that?

GRACE: Because it makes common sense?

ROCKWELL: But, Nancy, what if the baby died of an accident and she just covered up the death?

GRACE: You know what? We can hear that affirmative defense at trial. Accidents, self-defense are affirmative defenses that say, yes, the accident occurred but I`m not guilty of the murder.

Out to the lines, Angela in North Carolina, hi, Angela?

ANGELA, NORTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I have some quick question. Was Casey and her parents on good terms when the baby -- when she came and got the baby for the last time?

GRACE: OK. Second question?

ANGELA: Her -- excuse me, Nancy, I`m so -- speaking to you.

Was her father, being an ex-cop -- is that why she is so good at lying to the police, because she`s been lying to her parents all this time?

GRACE: Angela in North Carolina, you could teach that Leslie Austin, psychotherapist, a thing or two.

Let`s take a look at these two questions. Number one, to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the search command center, was there a rift between the parents -- the grandparents and Casey Anthony?

It`s my understanding they were considering urging her to move out and get her own place, finally. She`s almost 24 years old.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. When I`ve spoken to Cindy Anthony, she said that there was no risk, that Casey was just trying to move out and get her own place, and actually mentioned that this woman who she says was keeping Caylee -- Zenaida Gonzalez.

GRACE: Yes.

LANCE: . was somebody that Casey had considered moving in with when she moved out of the house because they were close friends.

GRACE: Well, you know what? They can put perfume on a pig if they want to. It sounds to me like Casey was getting kicked out of the house. We know grandmother Cindy wanted her to take better care of little Caylee.

And on that second question, I`m going to through this one to you, Dr. Leslie Austin, why is she just a great liar? And when we come back from our break, we have information from the boyfriend about some of those lies.

Leslie?

DR. LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I don`t think it`s because she`s a child of a policeman, number one. But number two, she`s a practiced liar because she`s only out to save herself. She`s so narcissistic, she`ll do anything to get her own way and she`s good at it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s a case that gets more bizarre by the minute.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, where`s Caylee? At least where`s her remains?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And the kettle is boiling more and more with every passing moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What the hell is going on?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who are these people?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You called in and said, it smells like there`s a dead body in my daughter`s car. Why did you say that for? Because you know there was a dead body there.

CINDY ANTHONY: No, I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re lying. Why did you say it then? Why did you say it?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We`re taking your calls live, out to Nancy in Florida. Hi, Nancy.

NANCY, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

NANCY: Actually, I have two quick questions.

GRACE: OK.

NANCY: I would like to know why Casey is being portrayed as the victim when it`s actually Caylee who`s the victim. Also, I thought that I had heard Cindy was a nurse. And if this was true, could she have had something to do with obtaining the chloroform?

GRACE: Does she have something to do with what?

NANCY: Obtaining the chloroform.

GRACE: Obtaining the chloroform.

OK, first of all, don`t -- Nancy in Florida, stay right there. Who is portraying Casey Anthony as a victim?

NANCY: Well, it just seems to me that, you know, because she`s in protective custody and she continually lies one upon the other, the family, of course, is going to stand by her side, but Leonard Padilla and the Equusearch people and just many, many people just seem to be wanting to protect her.

She must be in danger, I`m sure, because of the threats, but I think the focus needs to be taken more off of her and.

GRACE: You know, Nancy, I think you`re right. And I`m going to go to Leonard Padilla. Let`s get it from the horse`s mouth.

Bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California, went on a $500,000 bond, came off it, now he`s talking about going back on it to let mom, Casey, out of jail, if she helps locate daughter, Caylee.

You know, you have talked quite a bit as if Casey Anthony is the victim in this case, Mr. Padilla.

PADILLA: That might be what it sounds like, but believe me, that`s not what`s in my mind and that`s not what`s in my heart. I`m only interested in Caylee.

GRACE: You said something extremely interesting last night. You told me that the dumpster near the boyfriend`s apartment may become part of this case. Why did you say that?

PADILLA: Well, it`s just an indicator, like you were talking about the laptop and the chloroform searches, and now they find traces of it.

One thing I might want to ask your expert, and I can`t remember, but isn`t there something about urine mixed with chlorine that might also create a chloroform situation?

GRACE: Very quickly, Kobilinsky, anything to that?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Again, I think it`s highly doubtful, very doubtful.

GRACE: OK. It`s not like you`ve got a laboratory set up in the woman`s car trunk, Mr. Padilla. But back to the dumpster quickly.

PADILLA: I believe that possibly the child drowned, she hurriedly picked her up out of the pool, the diaper had urine, the chlorine, throw her in the trunk, and then try and figure out, now what do I do? I`ve got a dead child, what do I do?

But that strictly speculation. The dumpster itself.

GRACE: You know, typically, when a child drowns in a pool, you call 911 or you try to revive him.

PADILLA: I absolutely -- yes, yes. Absolutely. I understand that. And we`ve tried to, you know, like the two hits in the backyard, where did they come from, you know?

GRACE: You know.

PADILLA: But anyhow, the dumpster itself is a situation where because where the car was found and because the dumpster was unique to the car -- in other words, the car wasn`t abandoned because it ran out of gas. She wouldn`t have parked next to the dumpster in that particular situation. Yes.

GRACE: Oh, I see. Near the Amscot.

PADILLA: Exactly.

GRACE: The dumpster near the Amscot.

PADILLA: Yes, exactly.

GRACE: OK. Speaking of the boyfriend, I want to go back out to Natisha Lance, our producer there at the search command center.

What did you learn from Anthony Lazzaro?

LANCE: Well, I spoke to Anthony Lazzaro today, Nancy, and he told me a little bit about the Amscot where Casey abandoned that car. He was actually the person who picked Casey up after she abandoned the car.

He said that she had called him late that morning, said that her car had run out of gas, that this is nothing that was unusual, her car had run out of gas before. He went to go pick her up. She was already standing outside of the vehicle with groceries in her arms.

He said, is there anything I need to look at? And she said, oh no, don`t worry about it, my dad was going to take care of it. He brought her back to the apartment and he said that she stayed there for the rest of the afternoon.

Now he went on vacation a few days after this and he even spoke to her again and asked her, did your dad, you know, take care of the car? And she said, yes, my dad took care of the car, he took it to a dealership, they`re working on it, they`re going to find -- I`m going to get a new car, they`re going to trade it in.

And he -- the interesting thing that he said is that she gave specific information, specific information in terms of where the car was taken, even the names of people who worked on the car.

But as we know, that car was never taken to any type of dealership to get worked on because it was at that Amscot, and it was towed away.

GRACE: That`s incredibly elaborate lies.

Very quickly, Renee Rockwell, Alan Ripka, don`t you just hate it? Don`t you just cringe when your client not only starts talking, Alan Ripka, but starts giving these elaborate, huge, honking lies?

RIPKA: Well, of course, we hate it. Because what happens, if it ever comes to the time where there`s a trial, sometimes a lot of this evidence comes in. The boyfriend will come in and discuss these.

GRACE: Oh yes.

RIPKA: . things and my client can lose credibility as a result of it in a close case.

GRACE: Yes, you`re only protected against what you say to cops if you don`t get Miranda.

To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO -- Drew, what is the family response to the discovery of chloroform in the car?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: You know, lately they haven`t been saying much at all to the media so we -- we didn`t get a response to them. The only thing we`re getting -- that we get responses from is her attorney Jose Baez and even he hasn`t responded to that.

GRACE: What about it, Nikki Pierce?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: I got to go with Drew. Haven`t heard a thing yet because this was breaking so late right before we went on camera. So we`ll wait to see what they have to say.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: To Sacramento, bounty hunter Leonard Padilla -- Mr. Padilla?

PADILLA: Nancy, have your producer go back and talk to Lazzaro about what time he picked her up with the groceries? Because the lady, Mrs. Sanchez that manages that store says the car was there at 7:00 a.m. that morning of the 27th.

GRACE: So her car was already there out of gas at 7:00 a.m.?

PADILLA: Yes. That`s what Mrs. Sanchez said in her statement to the law enforcement. So how did Lazzaro pick her up?

GRACE: How do you run out of gas at 7:00 a.m. unless you left your car late there the night before?

PADILLA: Correct. So have your producer go back to Lazzaro and ask him what time and -- you know what the groceries were about.

GRACE: Will do.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../03/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Missing Toddler`s Mother Released on Bond Again

Aired September 4, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. Mom, Casey Anthony, walks out of jail free, free on bond again, an anonymous party posting a $500,000 bond, this after significant amounts -- not traces, significant amounts -- of the powerful chemical solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk. Sources confirm mom, Casey`s, computer reveals multiple visits to Web sites on chloroform.

And tonight, grandmother, Cindy, goes on the attack, blasting not only volunteer searches led by Texas Equusearch but also attacks the original bounty hunter who got her daughter, mom, Casey, out of the jail the first time. Why?

Investigators now go on record confirming there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee. Volunteers searching through swamps, through forests and bodies of water for little Caylee. And now the grandparents hire a criminal defense attorney. Why? Caylee`s grandparents insisting she`s alive and likely in Texas, Puerto Rico or Mexico. Hours ago, sheriffs send out a desperate plea for volunteer searchers. Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony, who has remained on jail on $500,000 bond, is getting out of jail again. Two local bail bond companies have combined forces to spring Anthony from her 7-by-12-foot cell in protective custody where she has remained nearly a week, this after police issue a press release saying they have filed additional theft and fraud charges against Casey Anthony for allegedly stealing hundreds of dollars in checks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This young lady, who`s got some -- definitely got a bit of a criminal past.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I want an apology from Kevin Berry (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It won`t happen. We`re doing our job. What we need is credible information, especially from her daughter.

CINDY ANTHONY: I know what I know. Caylee is not dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s the message I`ll send back to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony has been in jail for nearly a week after being arrested on more charges. But now she`s getting out. Two local bail bond companies are posting Anthony`s $500,000 bond. Anthony is expected to be released in hours and will once again be fitted with an electronic monitoring device.

CINDY ANTHONY: When she came out of the jail, she kept her head up high because there`s nothing to hide.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not asking for cooperation from that family. I do not ask them for anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony released a statement attacking the very searcher that she called and asked to come to Orlando to search for her granddaughter, Caylee. Cindy Anthony claims both the head of Equusearch, Tim Miller, and the bounty hunter, Larry Padilla, came to Florida under false pretenses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do not believe that Caylee is alive. I believe Caylee is within three miles of where we are sitting right now.

CINDY ANTHONY: You guys are going to put Caylee in a coffin because, eventually, something`s going to happen to her if we don`t find her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Amazingly, going on attack, that was Cindy Anthony, Caylee`s grandmother, attacking the volunteer searchers who came to find Caylee.

Let`s go straight out to Adam Longo, standing by the at jail, Adam with WKMG. Adam, she`s getting out of jail again? What happened?

ADAM LONGO, WKMG: Right. Well, two different bond companies posted her bond this evening. They`re splitting it up. It is a $500,000 bond. One company`s putting up $250,000, another company`s putting up another $250,000. And you know, when you talk about who could have likely seen this coming, we did see leading up to today and into the afternoon, all of the other bonds having been posted on the various financial-related charges that she`s been facing, as well as the $200 on the charges of lying to investigators and obstructing an investigation -- that was posted this afternoon. It seemed to all set the stage for this bond to be posted late this afternoon, Nancy.

GRACE: Now -- Adam Longo with us from WKMG, standing by at the jail. Now, there is the possibility that at any moment, mom, Casey Anthony, could walk out of jail. We have heard it`s going to be in the early morning hours. That may or may not be true. There`s always a chance they could try to slip her in or out through a back door. We`re posted there at the jail in case that happens.

You keep saying, Adam Longo, that there is an anonymous benefactor that is springing for her to get out of jail, but yet you also say there are two bonding companies. Which one is it, or is it both?

LONGO: Well, it`s the anonymous party, Nancy, that`s actually putting up the $500,000 to these bonding companies in order for her to be literally brought out of jail. And if I could read for you just a little bit of a statement that we have? We know just a little bit about this anonymous party. This is a statement released tonight by a public relations firm that has been retained by Jose Baez, Casey Anthony`s attorney.

What it says is, "The individual posting the bond prefers to remain anonymous and is doing it because of the belief that Ms. Anthony`s constitutional rights have been grossly violated." So about this anonymous...

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa!

LONGO: ... person who`s putting up this money...

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait! Wait a minute! Adam Longo, a PR firm wrote that? Are you talking about this press release that`s full of grammatical errors, talking about her constitutional rights having been violated, going on and on about Leonard Padilla? Is that what you`re talking about?

LONGO: That was the statement I was reading from, Nancy.

GRACE: Is that actually from a PR firm?

LONGO: This was penned by the firm of Press Corps Media. Todd Black (ph) is the name that was attached to the release.

GRACE: Well, somebody needs to go back to English grammar in the 6th grade. But go ahead and give me the gist of it.

LONGO: Well, the gist of it -- as you said, it goes on, on several different points, the point I just made about the anonymous donor. It also talks about Mr. Padilla. Let me read a little excerpt of that. It says, "Though Jose Baez and his client appreciate what Mr. Padilla initially did, his latter unjustified retreat has clearly demonstrated he cannot be trusted. Mr. Baez nor Ms. Anthony will work with Leonard Padilla ever again on their case. Mr. Padilla is simply milking media time under the pretense of reposting bond, and that offer is rejected."

It also goes on to talk about the Baez -- go ahead, Nancy.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With me is Adam Longo, who broke the story. Mom, Casey Anthony, is set to walk free from jail again, an anonymous benefactor putting up the bond for $500,000 to set her free. In a PR release by the Jose Baez firm, Leonard Padilla, the original bounty hunter who put up the money, traveled from California to get out of jail, is attacked. They claim he retreated.

With me now is that bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla. Mr. Padilla, my understanding is you decided that your original theory that Caylee was alive was false. You got no cooperation from the Anthony family, according to you...

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s right.

GRACE: ... in trying to find the little girl. And then you made an offer. If you, mom, Casey, will help me find little Caylee, I`ll go back on your bond and get you out. But they refused to do that.

PADILLA: That`s correct. And I can understand Jose, the attorney, you know, posturing. But you know, I have to tell you this, that approximately an hour before I was informed that somebody was posting the bond -- and this was before the bond was actually posted -- I received a call. And I thought it a strange call, asking me if I thought that she was a flight risk in any way, shape or form. And I told the gentleman, I says, No, she`s not a flight risk at all, and I don`t think that she`d be a threat...

GRACE: A flight risk? She can`t even keep a tank of gas.

PADILLA: Right. So she`s not going to run. The only thing I suggested to the individual, I says, I don`t know if you`re suggesting that you`re going to get involved in bailing or...

GRACE: Why you are being mysterious? You`re on national TV. I`m asking you questions. Why are you saying, "the individual"? Who called you?

PADILLA: When I asked -- I don`t know. When I asked the name of the person, he said, well, he`d call me back later on and explain why he was calling, and that was basically the end the conversation.

GRACE: So you don`t know who were talking to.

PADILLA: No. No. No. I have an idea, but...

GRACE: Well, don`t you have -- you`re a bounty hunter and you don`t have caller ID?

PADILLA: Yes, I do. It was out of 615 area code.

GRACE: Which means?

PADILLA: Well, I think there`s a production company down there made a deal with the new attorney. And they`ve hired -- you know, they`ve gone the whole thing, book and movie rights and all that, and they`re the ones that are behind guaranteeing the bond.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Repeat?

PADILLA: I think that they`re behind guaranteeing the bond in exchange for some book and movie rights, or something to that effect. That`s the impression I have.

GRACE: Why do you think that? And of course, everybody, 615 is the Nashville area code. And this press media release, which I might add again, was horribly written, just -- long story short, they`re in Nashville. So you put two and two together, and you think it`s a book or movie deal?

PADILLA: I think so. I did not know where the -- this is the first I`ve heard of the press release. I wasn`t aware of that. But I think there`s something that`s going on, and that`s why Cindy has hired a new attorney.

GRACE: OK.

PADILLA: You can see these things unfolding in this direction.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Jackie in California. Hi, Jackie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I have a question.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A question and a comment.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: About the chloroform. Could she have gotten it from her grandparents` house? I ask this because when my boyfriend`s grandmother died, we found a bottle in her house, in her cabinet.

GRACE: How long ago was that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was last year that we found it. And the bottle was from 1949, `50.

GRACE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t hear you. The bottle was from where?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From 1949 through 1950 is the bottle.

GRACE: OK. Because my research has revealed, Jackie, that chloroform was banned by the FDA for consumer use in America back in `77 to `79.

Let`s go to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, a renowned forensic scientist. Koby (ph), chloroform -- you can`t get it over the counter. It`s very difficult to buy on line, although I believe it can be done.

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: That`s absolutely right, Nancy. Obviously, there are uses for chloroform. Laboratories, research laboratories, forensic laboratories, industry involving refrigeration, photography -- there are a number of uses for chloroform, and you can buy it if you have a legitimate use for it. But it is banned. The average person cannot go into the store and buy it.

GRACE: But on line -- you know, you can get Oxycontin on line.

KOBILINSKY: Yes, I don`t think you can get it legitimately because, you know, it`s a known carcinogen. And the FDA and other groups that study toxic chemicals, they`re not going to allow the public to purchase it. You`ve got to know how to handle it.

GRACE: Well, let`s think this through. Let`s think this through just a moment. Let`s go to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. All right, if it`s difficult to purchase chloroform as an individual -- see, we don`t know, Mike Brooks, what those Web sites were that apparently, mom, Casey, went to. But we know she went to multiple Web sites about chloroform. What if, like Jackie in California is saying, she found this old bottle of chloroform. What if someone happened upon chloroform, and the Web sites are how to use the chloroform, not necessarily buying it or creating it?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right. That`s what I`m hearing, Nancy, that she went there to look up chloroform and how to use it. Now, I spoke to a chemist friend of mine last night about chloroform, and he said that it`s not that hard to get. And you could probably go to a college or a high school lab and get chloroform there.

GRACE: You know, another thing we learned as we went to air, yesterday, it had been reported, it had been rumored that trace amounts of chloroform -- trace amounts of chloroform -- were found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. Not so. The FBI says significant amounts of chloroform found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk.

We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, veteran felony prosecutor out of Atlanta Eleanor Dixon, defense attorney, no stranger to a courtroom, Peter Odom out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Also with us, trial lawyer Penny Douglas Furr. Eleanor, weigh in.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, of course, if you`re just building pieces of this puzzle, Nancy, you`ve got the chloroform, odor of the dead body. You`ve got DNA linking it, and you`ve got her doing computer searches. It all points to one person.

GRACE: Peter Odom?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well it certainly all points to the fact that this child met with foul play. It doesn`t all point to Ms. Anthony. And there could certainly be someone...

GRACE: Oh, really?

ODOM: ... else involved.

GRACE: Who else does it point to?

ODOM: How about a boyfriend? How about a family member?

GRACE: How about the chloroform and the dead body not being in the boyfriend`s car trunk?

ODOM: How many people had access to that trunk? And that`s a question the police haven`t asked yet, Nancy. Why don`t we ask it tonight?

GRACE: And how many people had access to Casey Anthony`s laptop with all the Web site searches to chloroform, and who was with the child last? I mean, Peter, you`ve got tunnel vision. You`re seeing what you want to see...

ODOM: I think the police have tunnel vision.

GRACE: ... and refusing to see -- and why is that?

ODOM: The police have only looked at Casey Anthony. They haven`t looked...

GRACE: Really?

ODOM: ... at any boyfriends as suspects.

GRACE: Is that -- why do you say that? Because they have interviewed every single person that she was telling the truth about that was in her life, including the ex-boyfriend, who is extremely cooperative, Anthony Lazarro (ph).

ODOM: Well, as I said, Nancy, I think that the police need to expand their search. This could very well...

GRACE: No, no!

ODOM: ... be an identity case.

GRACE: You said police have not talked to ex-boyfriends. In fact, they have.

ODOM: They`ve rejected them all as suspects. As soon as they deny that they were involved, they move on and move right back to Casey.

GRACE: No. Those boyfriends have given complete and full cooperation. And not only that, today, Penny Douglas Furr, renewed searches funded by the sheriff`s department for Caylee Anthony. Now, how is that police not cooperating?

PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s my understanding they`re looking for the body of Caylee Anthony, they`re not really looking for Caylee Anthony. If they`re in the woods, they`re looking for a body, they`re not looking for the child, if she`s alive.

GRACE: And do you believe that that is not cooperation, just because they`re not going along with Cindy Anthony`s theory about what happened?

FURR: Nancy, until they know, I think they should follow every lead. Whether she`s alive or dead-...

GRACE: OK.

FURR: ... they should follow every possible lead.

GRACE: I want to go back out to Adam Longo with WKMG. I want to follow up on something California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla just told us, the possibility of a book or movie deal. Do you believe, Adam, that that`s who has put up the money to get her out of jail?

LONGO: Well, it`s not about what I believe, Nancy. I mean, I`m a reporter. It`s my job to report facts here. But I can tell you that I just got off the phone with Todd Black, who penned that release. I just got off the phone with him just about a half an hour ago. And I got -- the entire conversation was off the record, but I think it`s fair to say, my conversation with him, I got the impression that what his firm does is some sort of crisis intervention when it comes to high-profile cases involving the media like this.

So it would -- it would probably be my belief -- I think Leonard might be a little far-fetched on this. But if he`s still around, I want to ask him, you know, if he thinks that they`re out there making book and movie deals, what was he doing in this case to begin with?

GRACE: Adam Longo, since you said your beliefs are irrelevant, what exactly was the conversation that you had?

LONGO: I was just asking him about what...

GRACE: I asked you what was your conversation, the conversation you alluded to about the bail?

LONGO: The conversation?

GRACE: About the media release?

LONGO: Right. I was just speaking to him about what he`ll be doing for Mr. Baez.

GRACE: And what will he be doing?

LONGO: He`s going to be providing public relations support to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony was on national TV saying that -- demanding an apology from the sheriff`s office.

CINDY ANTHONY: I want an apology from Kevin Berry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It won`t happen. It won`t happen. We`re doing our job. What we need is credible information, especially from her daughter. And that`s the message I`ll send back to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... lack of usable or reliable reporting information by the defendant.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Why didn`t you call 31 days ago?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember, we had 30 days before we had this information.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been looking for her.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we want to accomplish is get to the bottom of Caylee Marie Anthony`s disappearance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Tonight, stunning development in the search for a little Caylee. Mom, Casey, is set to walk out of jail again. An anonymous benefactor is putting up the $500,000 bond amount, two bonding companies joined together to get mom, Casey, out of jail. As we saw last time, even when she was out of jail, she did not cooperate with police, did not attend vigils for her daughter and did not help in the volunteer searches. This as we learn not trace amounts but significant amounts of chloroform found in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk.

You know, Dr. Kobilinsky, it took one of our producers about 10 minutes to buy chloroform on line.

KOBILINSKY: That`s quite impressive. You know, again, my understanding is, is that you simply can`t buy it unless there`s some -- some explanation, some legitimate use.

GRACE: Well, she did have to go through and make a bunch of checks on the Internet, but once she finished making all the checks in the boxes, you can buy chloroform on line. It`s not that difficult.

I want to go to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who originally posted bond for Casey Anthony. What`s your response to Adam Longo?

PADILLA: Well, here`s another one for publicity purposes, I guess, Adam would say. I`m offering $50,000 cash if anybody provides information that will lead us to the body. I`m saying the body. I think she`s deceased. No questions asked. You don`t have to furnish a name, $50,000 cash if you provide the information to me as to where the body might be located.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: We have never, ever, ever told the police, Look, she`ll talk, but only if she`s released or granted immunity. And nothing like that ever transpired. I don`t know where it came from.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are your thoughts on immunity?

CINDY ANTHONY: She`s not accepting immunity. She doesn`t need immunity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Well, according to documents from the state attorney`s office that I`ve got in my hand, it was him, Jose Baez, the defense attorney, who originally asked for immunity for Casey Anthony.

We are taking your calls live. Bombshell tonight. Mom, Casey Anthony, set to walk out of jail again, an anonymous benefactor putting up the $500,000 bond for her.

To Natisha Lance, standing by at the jail. Natisha, what are the conditions for her bond?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the conditions are of her bond, she has to be fitted for that ankle bracelet once again, Nancy, as she was before. She also has to have that phone line in her home that has no features on it, which is still -- as we could assume, still working at the home.

Also, she has to meet with her home confinement officer. If she meets with her confinement officer, she can`t wear any type of revealing clothing. She has to have scheduled appointments in order to leave the house. These things have to be scheduled before she can leave. And she has to be home. If she has a job, she has to go straight to work...

GRACE: Oh, I don`t think they`re going to have to worry, Drew Petrimoulx from WBDO, about her having a job. What time do you think she`s going to get out of jail, Drew?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WBDO: Well, when we spoke with the person -- the jail spokesman, he said that usually happens mid-morning. So she`ll have to be processed early on, and you know, anytime mid-morning, she could walk out of that Orange County jail.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had higher hopes of finding her alive, and that hope is somewhat diminished.

TIM MILLER, HEAD OF TEXAS EQUUSEARCH, SEARCHING FOR CAYLEE ANTHONY: Right now it appears as though I probably need to pull off of this search.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: Tim came out here with the understanding that we believe that Caylee is alive and that we wanted him to assist us in looking for her as a live person.

MILLER: If Casey got us out here and she gave that child to somebody she trusted and will not give up the name and phone number and wasting our resources for somebody that really needs us I feel used.

C. ANTHONY: Right now my gut is either she`s in Texas, Mexico, or Puerto Rico.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need him to stay and after I talked to Tim this morning I think that he`s staying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line is they are going to be searching areas that we`ve got concerns with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things you we want to make sure is that we don`t lose focus on the overall investigation also, which is Caylee Anthony, a 3-year-old child that we`re trying to find.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Stunning development in the search for little Caylee Anthony. Mom Casey said she walk free in just a couple of hours at the very longest from the jail.

An anonymous benefactor has put up the $500,000 bond for her to walk free utilizing two separate Florida bail bondsmen.

Straight out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at jail.

Natisha, has anyone -- is anyone able to determine from public documents who the benefactor is?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, Nancy. At this time, it`s an anonymous source. Jose Baez is even saying that he wants to keep this person anonymous. The person wants to remain anonymous because of all of the scrutiny that has been surrounding the case.

GRACE: And could you tell me, Natisha, what time you expect her to walk?

LANCE: She could actually walk out any minute out of these doors right behind me here, but what they are saying is that they think it will be midmorning tomorrow.

GRACE: And do you believe -- back out to Drew Petrimoulx, standing by from WDBO -- she could walk out earlier. That could that be a ruse to avoid media scrutiny.

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, I mean, I don`t think that she`s going to be coming out tonight. The press release that we got from the jail was midmorning tomorrow. And he said that she would be coming out right out of front doors at the jail there, the same place that she came out last time when she was surrounded by media.

So from all indications she`s coming out the same place as she did last time and media will, you know, be there.

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author, joining us tonight out of Los Angeles.

Bethany, to me, the second verse same as the first. Last time she got out, she did nothing to help police. Did not meet with police. Did not meet with the FBI. Did not help in the volunteer search for her daughter. Did not search on her own.

Did not even attend vigils that were in her front yard. Over loudspeakers. You couldn`t help but hear them on the inside of the house.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I know, I know.

You know, she just doesn`t seem to have any of these human emotions that would motivate someone to tell the truth. She`s not scared about where her daughter is. She doesn`t seem to have a sense of loss, panic, anxiety, fear.

She was led out in handcuffs and she did not flinch. And if she killed her child -- I don`t know if she did, but if she did -- that is the most heinous of acts. After that, it`s all downhill from there.

Nothing else scares you, and what concerns me even more, Cindy Anthony, in attacking the searchers, the sheriff, Tim Miller, she is attacking the truth. And if she cannot tell the truth internally, how can her own daughter tell the truth?

If she`s not in reality, how can her own daughter be in reality? The level of pathological denials that I have observed in that family as this case progresses is beginning to rise to the level of Casey`s pathological denial of the fact that you do not leave your child with a stranger and then go out dancing and lie to everybody about it.

GRACE: Back to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at jail. Casey Anthony`s set to walk out free on bond, yet again.

Natisha, we are talking about attacks made by grandmother, Cindy Anthony, on volunteer Texas Equusearchers, as well as others.

In a nutshell, Natisha, what were the attacks?

LANCE: Well, in a nutshell, Nancy, she is saying that Tim Miller and his crew were out here just for publicity sake. Kind of likening him to Leonard Padilla in saying that he had ill-intention, saying that he`s misrepresented himself and also saying that he misspoke by saying that she is not cooperating in trying to search for Caylee and saying that he had promised her that he was going to look for a Caylee who`s alive and not dead.

GRACE: With us tonight is the leader of Texas Equusearch, Tim Miller. And I`d like to remind everybody that Tim Miller is a crime victim himself.

Laura Miller, his 16-year-old daughter, was abducted and murdered. North Galveston County, Texas, back in 1984. She was last seen at a convenient store midday. She was going to walk home a very short distance.

After nearly two years, her remains were found near three other dead girls. And many, many times, he has stated he wished that even just one person, one person, had tried to help him find his daughter.

Mr. Miller, what do you make of these attacks?

MILLER: You know what, Nancy, I understand where the family`s coming from. That`s the worst time of their entire life and there will never be a worse time. And we`re doing everything we can do to find Caylee alive.

And I know for a fact, firsthand, that we cannot get any help myself because the police department had everybody convinced that my daughter was a runaway and she was alive. And unfortunately, she laid out there for 17 months, and I hope that Cindy is right. That Caylee`s alive out there.

But you know what, from my experience, I`m going to look for Caylee because everybody said my daughter was alive also. So we`re going to do everything that we can do. We still had people in the Dallas area.

We`re still working with a company that delivers to all the grocery stores and stuff across the nation that try to get Caylee`s picture out there. Try to get more leads coming in. But until that time, we are going to search.

You asked me a question again the other night and I got a little upset. No, I do not believe that Caylee is alive. And I think the search we`re putting together is going to be the biggest search that`s ever happened for this poor little girl.

And you know what? If something has happened to her, we want to go ahead and bring some type of closure to this community. Right now, we`re thinking about this community. Everybody that`s coming out and helping us and given from their hearts.

And my concern now is, you know what, we had such a positive attitude with all of the searchers today. There was new adrenaline.

GRACE: I`ve got to say -- I`ve got to say, Tim, you have really amassed quite a crew of volunteer searches.

Tim Miller is with us tonight, the head of Texas Equusearch, a volunteer search team, who is combing the area, mostly areas that police have led them to.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Cindy in Alabama, hi, Cindy.

CINDY, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?

CINDY: Yes, my question is, with all the evidence against her, why does she keep making bail? I don`t understand that. With the evidence in the car, she should still be in jail.

GRACE: You know what, Mike Brooks, I agree with Lenore. The problem is she has not been formally charged with murder.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: No, she has not been charged at all. It`s all of the theft charges, you know, the child abuse charge. It`s -- she should -- she needs to be jail with the heat put on her by law enforcement.

If they didn`t do it -- she didn`t cooperate to begin with. Let her stay in jail. Let her stay in solitary confinement. You know, maybe she`ll one day crack but I tell you what Nancy, she may never.

GRACE: And back to Natisha Lance, standing by at the Orange County jail.

Natisha, what new charges is she looking at?

LANCE: She`s looking at two counts of uttering a forged check, two counts of petty theft, and two counts of fraudulent use of a personal I.D.

GRACE: And long story short, let`s unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Penny Douglass Furr.

Peter Odom, bottom line is she allegedly grabbed a friend`s checkbook, and went crazy. Sometimes signing her own name to somebody else`s checks.

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think that that just shows a pattern of behavior throughout this woman`s life that she`s a pathological liar.

GRACE: And Eleanor, bottom line, if she gets, say, 30 years for these -- all of these charges, one on top of the other, 15 to 30, she`ll still only do two or three years on theft charges, on bad check charges.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: That`s right. Why will the parole board keep her in when they have to keep in the murderers and hopefully she`ll be charged with that at some point.

GRACE: And very quickly, Penny Douglass Furr, what`s the state waiting on, on murder charges?

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, they do not have enough evidence at this point to convict her of murder. And so they can`t charge her until they have enough evidence. And they went to get a hot bond based on these little nonsense charges.

And they got a bond that was outrageous. And that`s why she`s getting out. She`s getting out because they don`t have enough evidence to charge this woman with murder.

GRACE: Very quickly, everybody, we are taking your calls live.

Mom Casey Anthony, set to walk out of Orange County jail. Standing by at the jail, our producer, Natisha Lance.

As we go to break, a very special happy birthday to two Georgia friends of the show - twins, teenagers, Nick and Zach Abram.

Aren`t the handsome? Happy birthday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROOKS: She also said that she on July 15th had received a phone call and talked to Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I actually received a phone call today from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter for about a moment -- about a minute.

BROOKS: Cell phone records say no incoming calls at all on that day.

CINDY ANTHONY: There were five incoming phone calls during that time.

GRACE: Well, don`t you have the phone records, Miss Anthony?

CINDY ANTHONY: I have them. I see them.

GRACE: Well why don`t you release them? Why don`t you release them? Show that police are wrong in this sworn affidavit to say that those calls didn`t come in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Mom Casey Anthony set to walk out of the jail within hours. An anonymous benefactor putting up the $500,000 bond for her to walk free.

You know, Bethany Marshall, as she cooperates anymore than she did last time, we`ll be still at square one.

MARSHALL: Well, I have a hard time knowing what would even motivate her to cooperate at this point because the type of pathological lying she engages in, it tends to have a life of its own over time. You`ve seen convicted felons -- they sit on death row for 20 years.

Even despite the fact that they`ve been convicted, they continue to lie. This is the kind of pathological liar she is. Nothing is going to change at this point.

GRACE: Back to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, renowned forensic scientist, joining us out of New York.

Koby, I`m shock that you think it so difficult to get chloroform online. I mean, bottom line, our producer was getting it for about 63 bucks. It took her 10 minutes.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, it`s not the price. The companies that supply this.

GRACE: Have you heard of that Internet thing?

KOBILINSKY: Yes, of course.

GRACE: You know, tick-tick-tick?

KOBILINSKY: Yes, I think that companies require that the purchaser demonstrate proof that they`re either an educational institution or a functional laboratory.

GRACE: Koby.

KOBILINSKY: Yes.

GRACE: All that you do is you put -- you type an X in a block and say, yes, I`m 18. Yes, I`m an institution. Boom. You get your chloroform.

KOBILINSKY: Well, it`s a carcinogen. It shouldn`t be available to the public.

GRACE: Should of, would of, could of. Don`t care. It`s in her car trunk.

KOBILINSKY: Well, if it`s there, we.

GRACE: And what is this you`re telling me last night about how it can be a byproduct of -- for instance pool cleaner?

KOBILINSKY: Well, I think you asked me what are the possible mechanisms for.

GRACE: Because you said it was possible.

KOBILINSKY: Well, I -- one of the original syntheses involved bleach and ethanol or acetone, things of that sort. So you can get traces of chloroform. And I`m not saying that`s the likelihood here.

If they really got significant amounts, that would change the story a bit.

GRACE: A bit?

KOBILINSKY: A bit.

GRACE: You`re darn right, a bit.

Explain that, Mike Brooks?

BROOKS: You know, Nancy, Dr. Kobilinsky -- he`s the expert in this. But, you know, just -- chloroform, just like my chemist buddies said.

GRACE: Well, I mean, chloroform is most often detected in movies and in books.

BROOKS: Yes, right, and you know.

GRACE: . where someone sneaks up.

BROOKS: Right.

GRACE: . with the chloroform rag, puts it over you, and you pass out just like that.

BROOKS: Right.

GRACE: That`s what chloroform is.

BROOKS: You know, and it echoes to the theory now, Nancy. You know there`s another speculation.

GRACE: You can actually die from chloroform inhalation.

BROOKS: That`s exactly right and now that goes to the theory now that some people are putting out there -- speculative theory at best -- that maybe she used that to try to put the baby to sleep so that she could go out and party, and then she -- she possibly overdosed the baby.

That`s one theory out there now.

GRACE: There are so many theories about what happened.

BROOKS: There are.

GRACE: To Linda in Michigan, hi, Linda.

LINDA, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

LINDA: I have two comments.

GRACE: OK.

LINDA: First of all, I cannot -- I simply cannot understand why Casey`s parents cannot convince Casey to explain her behavior regarding Caylee. As a parent myself, I`m sure I would try all avenues for my daughter to tell the truth. At least tell the truth to her mother or father.

Secondly, has there been a request for a polygraph to be administered of Casey?

GRACE: You know I want to go back out to Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by the Orange County jail.

Have they asked Casey Anthony to take a polygraph? Or has she offered to take a polygraph?

LANCE: No, offer to take a polygraph at this time, Nancy. Her attorney, Jose Baez, said, there`s no need for a polygraph because she`s not lying about anything and she`s been upfront and honest.

GRACE: Well, one thing about a polygraph if she passed it, it would help rule her out and police could then go on and look more intensely at other possibilities. By not taking a polygraph and it`s actually hindering the investigation.

To Jane in Florida, hi, Jane.

JANE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy. This case is very dear to my heart. I have a 3-year-old and I don`t live far from Orlando. But my question was -- I had a question for the psychoanalyst.

GRACE: Yes.

JANE: What does she think about Casey saying on her phone calls in the jail that she thought that Caylee was close by? Does that mean, with her a pathological liar that she could have twisted the truth and she could literally be close to home?

GRACE: Bethany?

MARSHALL: Well, I think that`s very insightful because the way Casey lies is she picks up on bits and pieces of the truth and she weaves them into the lie.

So when she says they`re close to -- she`s close to home, is she saying she killed her and she`s close to home? Or she passed her off and she`s close to home?

You know, you kind of have to weave that into the understanding of what she really meant.

GRACE: And very quickly, Eleanor, have you ever tried to interview somebody like Casey Anthony that just talks in circles no matter what you ask them?

DIXON: Oh yes. I`ve seen that many a time, and it`s sometimes very difficult to get to the small kernel of truth that`s in there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Mom Casey Anthony set to walk out of the Orange County jail. An anonymous benefactor putting up her bond.

Out to the lines, Lauren in New Jersey, hi, Lauren.

LAUREN, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. This is Lauren from New Jersey.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

LAUREN: I want to know as to -- if the family believes that the little girl is still alive, as to why there`s been, like, no AMBER Alert or anything like that has been put out?

GRACE: Interesting.

Mike Brooks?

BROOKS: Because right now it does not fit the criteria for an AMBER Alert because there is no lookout, there is no vehicle, there is nothing to -- nobody to look for.

GRACE: You know, Eleanor Dixon, Peter Odom, Penny Douglass Furr -- Penny, what`s the likelihood that there is a tap on the lines of Casey Anthony or in her home?

DOUGLASS FURR: I`d say about 99.99 percent that there is a tap on the phone?.

GRACE: Odom?

ODOM: Absolutely. The police are looking at everything and they`d be foolish not to be doing that. So, yes, they are.

GRACE: Eleanor?

DIXON: Well, of course, we all know there`s a wire tap. No question.

GRACE: And you know, bottom line, you can stand outside in somebody`s front yard and get their cell phone conversation. You practically don`t even need a tap for that but you have to go through the same legal criteria to get a cell phone tap.

Eleanor?

DIXON: Yes, that`s true. I mean you have to follow a certain procedure and have a judge sign that wiretap.

GRACE: Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Benjamin Brosh, 22, Colorado Springs, Colorado, killed Iraq.

Awarded the National Defense Service medal, Army Service Ribbon, and Global War on Terrorism Service medal. Adventurous, loved soccer with Iraqi kids, crabbing, fishing, golf and snowboarding.

Leaves behind parents, Jane and Barbara.

Benjamin Brosh, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And our thoughts and prayers with those searchers, searching for little Caylee in Florida.

I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/04/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Casey Anthony Released on Bond Again

Aired September 5, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, with evidence mounting against her, mom, Casey Anthony, walks out of jail surrounded by private bodyguards. That`s right, free on bond again. While a press release states an anonymous party posted the $500,000 bond because mom, Casey`s, quote, "rights have been violated," tonight we learn grandparents Cindy and George Anthony actually sign a promissory note backing by collateral that note to get mom, Casey, out of jail.

And sources confirm there was so much of the powerful chemical solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk, even the air within the trunk was saturated -- the air was saturated with chloroform -- mom, Casey`s, computer revealing multiple visits to Web sites on chloroform. Investigators on the record confirm there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee.

And tonight, volunteers told to search for a rolled-up rug, a duffel bag and bones as the search goes on -- swamps, forests, bodies of water. Where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened with your daughter, Casey?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is your daughter? What did you (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Caylee?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I support you, Casey. I support you! Hold your head up high!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony is now out of jail for the second time. She`s a free mom again for the second time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Baez this time had a couple of people in front of him, kind of blocking, almost bouncer-type people. We counted about 20 news crews that were here. There were helicopters overhead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They are right around the corner. As you can see, we starting to see the media trucks. So get ready. They are about to pull into their driveway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did confirm that it was George and Cindy Anthony who signed promissory notes with bond companies to get them to put up the $500,000 bond.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey Anthony arrived at her parents` home on Hope (ph) Spring Drive to a swarm of protesters and reporters. When I tried to find out how Cindy felt about Casey coming home again, she drowned out my questions with a loud alarm.

Cindy, did you want to say anything about Casey coming home? Cindy, did you want to say anything?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know that the last time when she was bailed out, she had eight days being home. We know that we didn`t get any forward movement into to where little Caylee is. After all, this is all about what happened to her daughter. So now I`ll be curious to find what`s going to happen next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Mom, Casey Anthony, walks free from jail -- again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The mother of missing Florida toddler Caylee Anthony is free again as we speak.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony was surrounded by media this morning. You can barely make her out there. She was escorted out of the Orange County jail wearing an ankle monitoring bracelet and a T-shirt with Caylee`s picture on it.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: We got a notice about the car on Tuesday, July 15. When I finally met up with Casey, she said that Caylee was with the baby-sitter, Zanny. Caylee wasn`t with her, like she had told me she was with her for the last month.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During that period of time, did you have any communication with the child?

CINDY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were denied that opportunity?

CINDY ANTHONY: It was an inopportunity (SIC), or there -- is all I can say.

She was kidnapped by Zenaida, and you know -- and that`s what she`s maintained. She told me, you know, some things during the month of June because she was trying to look for her and tried to get her back herself.

There was no reason to believe that Casey and Caylee weren`t together at any time.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: My next thing will be down to child (INAUDIBLE) things, and we`ll have a court order to get her. If that`s the way you want to play it, we`ll do it, and you`ll never...

CASEY ANTHONY: That`s not the way I want to play it.

CINDY ANTHONY: Well, then you have...

CASEY ANTHONY: Give me one more day.

CINDY ANTHONY: No, I`m not giving you another day. I`ve given you a month.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to our producer Natisha Lance, standing by there outside the Anthony home. It`s a madhouse. What`s happening?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, it was pretty quiet up until now. Protesters came in with signs. As you can see right behind me, they are protesting right in front of the Anthony house. And last week, Cindy Anthony had actually put down some "No trespassing" signs, which they actually tore through today. Neighbors came out, as well, and they were going back and forth with the protesters, saying, We live in this neighborhood, you don`t know this family. And they`re saying, We don`t care. We think that Casey is guilty and she needs to be back in jail.

It actually turned a little bit violent. One of the neighbors took a sign from a protester, and that kind of ensued into a little punching match back and forth. Police did show up on the scene and they did try to quiet things down, but the protesters, as you see right behind me, are still right back at it.

GRACE: Tell me, is there a group that is pro-Casey Anthony and a group that is wanting her back in jail?

LANCE: There was a group earlier here today, Nancy, that was pro- Casey Anthony, and they were over at the jail today, too, when she was released. And earlier today, there was a bit of a traffic jam in front of the house and they were exchanging words back and forth, saying that they didn`t think Casey was guilty, and then the other side was saying they did think Casey was guilty. So it`s -- just as it`s playing out in the public, in this neighborhood, it`s affecting people very seriously, too.

GRACE: Natisha, you were there at the jail when Casey Anthony walked free. What happened?

LANCE: Well, it was almost identical to her release before, not only in terms of time but also in terms of the weather. They did take a few more precautions this time, though, Nancy. They had an area roped off with yellow caution tape because they didn`t want to have a reoccurrence of what happened before. So media was not to go past this yellow line.

And once they did -- once Casey did come out of the jail, she had two bodyguards who were with her, also with Jose Baez. She was scrunched down behind them, still wearing that "Where is Caylee?" T-shirt that she was arrested in last Friday. They got in a Dodge Durango with very dark-tinted windows and they were off to the parents` home.

GRACE: We`re taking your calls live. Out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO radio. Nikki, we had learned from a press release of some sort yesterday that there was an anonymous benefactor who got Casey Anthony out from behind bars because, quote, "her constitutional rights" were violated. In my hand right here, I`ve got two bond documents that state, in fact, the Anthonys, George and Cindy Anthony, signed a promissory note, backing it up with collateral to get her out.

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s true. It does seem to be contradictory evidence. Yesterday, someone allegedly gave at least part of the money, saying that her constitutional rights had been violated. Today, as the -- as you just noted, the bond documents say that the Anthonys put up a promissory note. Now, I`m not entirely sure how that works, if they had to put up any part of the bond, but it`s still a little unclear what the truth actually is. But of course, the bond documents are probably more likely to tell the true story.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Joanne in Iowa. Hi, Joanne.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I was wondering, does Casey feel that if Caylee isn`t found that then, they can`t proceed to put more charges upon her?

GRACE: Excellent question. Let`s unleash the lawyers tonight. Veteran trial lawyer out of the California jurisdiction Daniel Horowitz is with us, along with Joey Jackson out of New York, also a veteran trial lawyer. What about it, Daniel?

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, we just had a case in Oakland, California, where Hans Reiser was convicted of murder, and they never found his wife`s body. They just found a little bit of trace evidence in the car. The jury convicted him. And after conviction for a lesser sentence, he led them to his wife`s body. So you don`t need a body to get a conviction.

GRACE: Absolutely not. In fact, Joey, it is very common for murder cases to go forward without a body.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No doubt, Nancy. That`s the reality of our time. You know, unfortunately, prosecutors oftentimes do not have a body in order to prosecute. Would it make a more probable case and more likely case to get a conviction? Well, yes, it would. However, you do not need a body to prosecute, and prosecutors have been successful in past cases in securing convictions without one.

GRACE: Daniel, do you believe that she figures if they don`t find little Caylee, she`s going to walk scot-free on this thing?

HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, there really is not much evidence against her. You know, there`s a lot of problems with this chloroform evidence appearing to magically...

GRACE: Really? What`s the problem?

HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, nobody smelled chloroform. On your show, I heard about the officer smelling a dead body. Thirty days later, you smell chloroform in the car or...

GRACE: Nobody smelled -- no, no, no. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Nobody smelled...

HOROWITZ: You find it chemically? I mean, you find it chemically?

GRACE: As I was trying to say -- as I was trying to say, Daniel Horowitz, the samples to the FBI and the air samples apparently to the "body farm," a very high-tech lab in Tennessee, show not just traces but a significant amount of chloroform. And Daniel, I`m glad you brought that up.

HOROWITZ: I don`t buy it. I don`t buy it.

GRACE: I`m sure you think it was all planted. Let`s go...

HOROWITZ: Thirty days later, it`s going to remain there, Nancy? Come on. OK, go ahead. I`ll shut up. I want to hear this.

GRACE: Let`s go to -- now, that`s a first. I`m going to an expert on this subject, when none of us are. To Jeff Flowers. He is chemical and technical director of Flowers Chemical Laboratories, joining us out of Orlando. Jeff, explain, would a -- just a nose test by a human detect chloroform in the car trunk?

JEFF FLOWERS, CHEMIST, FLOWERS CHEMICAL LABORATORIES: Probably not. These tests were conducted probably using gas chromatography analysis. So no noses were involved.

GRACE: Explain to me -- when you say how significant this is that the air, even the air in the car trunk was saturated with chloroform, what does that mean and why is that so significant to you?

FLOWERS: Well, chloroform is a very volatile chemical, but it is a liquid at room temperature. However, in a car trunk, it`s going to be sealed. It`s going to be not exactly air-tight, but it`s going to be close. And it would be retained on the surfaces of the rug and so forth that`s in the trunk.

GRACE: The fact that the air was saturated, what does that mean to you, evidentiary?

FLOWERS: The question that it brings up -- I mean, chloroform, of course, is an anesthetic. But it also acts -- it`s much more dense than air. So if a child was placed in the trunk and the room -- and the trunk sealed and it was saturated with chloroform from the rag that was used, there would be no oxygen at the bottom of the trunk.

GRACE: I don`t know what that means. You`re speaking to a layperson. As far as proving a case at trial, what does it mean the air was saturated with chloroform, even the air...

FLOWERS: It would be difficult to breathe in the trunk.

GRACE: OK. OK. How much chloroform would it take to cause the air in the car trunk to be saturated with chloroform?

FLOWERS: The liquid chloroform that would be present on the rag would be -- would continue to release itself as a vapor, and that would continue to push away the oxygen from the bottom.

GRACE: OK. Now I understand. Let`s go to Alexis Weed, our show staffer researching chloroform. Alexis, how difficult is it to buy chloroform on line?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: In fact, Nancy, it wasn`t difficult at all. Within a matter of about 10 to 15 minutes, I was able to conduct an on-line research and find chloroform and a vendor that was willing to sell it to me.

GRACE: Alexis, what kind of a search -- did you go to Google or Yahoo!? What did you plug in to pop up buying chloroform on line?

WEED: Nancy, in this case, it was a Google search. And I typed in "purchase chloroform," and that generated a number of chemical and laboratory supply companies, on which I clicked and followed links until I found one that was willing to sell the product.

GRACE: How much?

WEED: I could get anywhere from 100 milliliters all the way up to 20 liters.

GRACE: How much did it cost?

WEED: $63 for the 100 milliliters and upwards of $700 for 20 liters.

GRACE: Would they allow you to take a credit card, if you wanted to use a credit card?

WEED: In fact, that was the only way by which I could make the transaction go through. I needed to select a type of credit card, type in my name, the expiration date and sign an acknowledgement that I understood I was only using the product for limited purposes of research, development, manufacturing, and then I could complete my purchase.

GRACE: To Jeff Flowers, chemist and technical director of Flowers Chemical Labs in Orlando, can you believe that? Anybody can go on line and buy chloroform, a very dangerous chemical solution.

FLOWERS: Well, it`s not just chloroform. I mean, after 9/11, you would have thought that these types of chemicals would have had limited access to the marketplace. It`s abhorrent to me that this continues.

GRACE: I want to go out to the lines again. Debbie in Florida. Hi, Debbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, she seems to be pretty devious to me. I was wondering, knowing from past cases where people know that the towers are going to hit from their phone cells -- cell phones, I mean -- could she have, like, maybe dropped the baby off towards south, and then headed north in the opposite direction, making calls, knowing that the tower is going north or what they`re going to find, when she`s actually done something in the opposite direction?

GRACE: To Donald Schweitzer, former detective with the Santa Ana PD. What about it, Schweitzer?

DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: I think that this particular suspect isn`t that sophisticated. Now, she may have an accomplice that`s unnamed that may think of all those things. But look at this woman. She can`t even tell a straight -- or a lie to convince the police that she was working at a particular place. So she doesn`t seem to be sophisticated enough to do something like that.

GRACE: Well, not only that, she had a little gasoline problem, Detective Schweitzer. She ran out of gas. And that is really interesting.

To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of California who first put up the bond to get Casey Anthony out of jail. You brought this to my attention. Her car was spotted at 7:00 AM, I believe, by the workers at Amscot, a check cashing place, which means either she was out there at 7:00 AM or she had left the car there out of gas sometime during the night, correct?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s correct, yes.

GRACE: Now, what do you make of this bond being put up today? You`re our bounty hunter. What do these documents mean from the bonding company, where the Anthony family has signed promissory notes to get her out of jail?

PADILLA: Well, that basically means that two companies each put up a $250,000 bond. They split the $500,000 into two $250,000. And the Anthonys are on the hook for the premium, which is $50,000. And I haven`t seen the documents, but I`m assuming you`re looking at something that says that -- it`s a promissory note. So they have to pay $25,000 to each company when it comes due.

GRACE: And let me go to Nikki Pierce of WDBO. Nikki, is it true that shortly after little Caylee goes missing, that Casey gets a tattoo that says, La bella vita, the beautiful life?

PIERCE: That is true. She got that tattoo. It seems like it may have been a memorial, but no one really knows.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: My daughter`s been missing for the last 31 days. I know -- I`ve tried to contact her. Her name is Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. She`s been my nanny for about a year-and-a-half. I`ve been looking for her and have gone through other resources to try to find her, OK, which is stupid.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Mom, Casey Anthony, walks from behind bars on bond again. You are seeing a scene outside the Anthony home, Casey Anthony inside the home, a fight actually breaking out between the protesters in front of the home. That is the scene as we go to air tonight. Now we learn the chloroform was so dense in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car, it actually saturated the air.

Out to Michael -- Dr. Michael Arnall, board-certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver. Doctor, what does that say to you regarding the chloroform?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, if chloroform was used on this child, the child could have died in a couple of different ways. The anesthetic itself could reduce her breathing or suppress her breathing. Also, if a person held some type of a cloth over a child`s face for perhaps a minute or two, the child could actually asphyxiate. And of course, the child could vomit because sometimes the anesthetics cause an uneasy stomach. So a child could vomit and inhale that food. So there`s several ways that that anesthetic could have caused death in a child.

GRACE: Generally speaking, we`ve only seen chloroform depicted in movies, on TV and books as being held over your nose with a rag or something, and then the person goes unconscious. Is that how it works, Doctor?

ARNALL: It certainly can work that way. If the concentration of chloroform is high enough in the trunk and a child enters the trunk, that also could cause loss of consciousness. But in this case, remember that the dogs actually hit on an area of the yard, suggesting the possibility that there was an initial clandestine burial in the yard and then a secondary placement of a body into the trunk. If that`s actually the way this unfolded, it suggests that the body may actually have died outside the trunk and in some location where the child was first put into the yard and then into the trunk after it decomposed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s becoming a circus over here. I mean, I look down the street and I see nothing but news trucks up and down, helicopters hovering all over at times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: The only way they`re going to find Caylee is if they actually listen to what I`m saying.

I gave them things multiple times.

Nobody (DELETED) believes anything that I`m saying. I`m trying to help them and they`re not letting me help them.

The officer I gave the same information at least two or three times.

They haven`t listened to a (DELETED) thing that I`ve said.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist. We saw Casey Anthony do absolutely nothing to help in the search for Caylee, her own daughter, last time she was sprung from jail. Now she`s out again as of a couple of hours ago. You`re seeing what happened at the jail just hours ago. Do you expect anything different, Patricia?

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: No. There`s no reason -- there`s no motivation for her to do anything different. I don`t think that her behavior is going to change, Nancy. But I wonder if we aren`t seeing an escalation in the intensity of denial in her parents, Cindy and George. They can only stretch that denial so far.

GRACE: To Mandy Albritton, joining us there tonight there in Orlando. She`s the deputy director of Equusearch and she is searching for Caylee. Where have the latest searches been?

MANDY ALBRITTON, TEXAS EQUUSEARCH: Well, Nancy, we`re focusing our efforts in and around the airport. All of our locations are based on law enforcement`s investigations and their leads.

GRACE: Mandy, I understand you desperately need more volunteers.

ALBRITTON: We do. However, the Orlando community is coming out. They`re supporting this child. We expect 500 to 1,000 volunteers tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey sat in the back of the SUV with her attorney Jose Baez. They pulled right into the garage so that we couldn`t ask any questions. Two guys who appeared to be private security guards were right behind them. George and Cindy Anthony had already driven their vehicles out of the garage to make room for Casey`s return. When I tried to find out how Cindy felt about Casey coming home again, she drowned out my questions with a loud alarm.

Cindy, did you want to say anything about Casey coming home? Cindy, did you want to say anything?

Orange County deputies were around to make sure that the situation didn`t get out of hand. But the people we believe were private security guards left, and so did Casey`s attorneys. One of the Anthonys` neighbors have already put up yellow tape around their home and a no trespassing sign.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, CNN HN HOST: Straight out to the Anthony home, I understand, Natisha Lance and that police are at the home and the defense attorney Jose Baez.

NATISHA LANCE, CNN HN CORRESPONDENT: Hold on a minute I`m being asked to step out of the street by the police behind me. Could you say the question again?

GRACE: Yes, tell me what`s happening.

LANCE: Right now police, as you saw, who asked me to step out of the street, are here. They had asked the protesters, who are still in front of the house, that they can stay there, but they cannot scream and make noise and disturb the other neighbors in the neighborhood. And the police officers are still patrolling up and down the street trying to keep the peace as best they can. There are other protesters who are across the street from the Anthony home still holding their signs but silently keeping a watch on the home and silently doing their protesting.

GRACE: I understand that defense attorney Jose Baez is also there?

LANCE: Yes. Jose Baez did actually just arrive at the home. He went inside. He didn`t even look across the street over at media. Didn`t look at the protesters. Went to the door. Cindy Anthony opened the door for him and he went right inside.

GRACE: Any idea why?

LANCE: You know, it`s anyone`s guess, Nancy. He -- Casey came out of jail today. So possibly they are discussing some things for the future, maybe setting up some appointments. She does have to meet with her home confinement officer on Monday. So maybe she has to give them a schedule, so maybe they are trying to figure out what that schedule will be so that she can give it to them on Monday.

GRACE: Back to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, who first sprung Casey Anthony out of jail. You were there in the home shortly after her release the first time. What was it like inside that home? What are they going through right now?

PADILLA: Well, right now probably Jose is huddled with Casey in one of the rooms by himself with her because he can`t have anybody else in there. Otherwise, it destroys the attorney/client privilege. And I don`t know if George is home. He might still be at work. But Cindy, herself, will be in the kitchen fixing dinner and I don`t know if the brother Lee is there or not.

GRACE: Leonard, you actually talked to them on numerous occasions. Do you think the grandparents really believe Casey Anthony?

PADILLA: No, no. They know the truth. Casey`s already divulged it to Lee. Lee has informed Cindy. As far as George, that I wouldn`t know. He`s the guy that`s really, you know, sometimes kept out of the loop and I feel real sorry for him.

GRACE: What do you mean she`s divulged the truth?

PADILLA: I believe that after the samples came out from the Tennessee and the FBI a week ago, more than a week ago, 10 days ago, that she probably told Lee, who told Cindy, because their whole attitude changed dramatically the very next morning. Thursday morning, it was kind of an offensive attack on she`s alive, she`s alive. Somebody put a body in the car and all that kind of stuff started coming out real strong.

GRACE: But if they really believe that it was another body in the car, not little Caylee, then that seems that they`re buying Casey Anthony`s story.

PADILLA: No, no, they`re not buying her story. They know what happened. They`re trying to make the best of it. They lost a granddaughter. They don`t want to lose a daughter.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Mike in Florida. Hi, Mike.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. How are you?

CALLER: I have a question about the searching. I know Equusearch is out here searching for Caylee`s body, whether she`s dead or alive. And my question regarding the family, you know, they`re claiming that nobody -- or people aren`t doing enough for this search. Why aren`t they out there volunteering their time to help Equusearch search for their grand daughter.

GRACE: Interesting question. Mandy Albritton is with Equusearch. She`s been searching for Caylee. Why isn`t the family out searching?

MANDY ALBRITTON, EQUUSEARCH: Interesting question, you`re right. It is unusual that they`re not out. I can`t answer that. Most parents are out beating the bushes with us every day.

GRACE: Now, you`re having a search tomorrow morning, right?

ALBRITTON: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: For people that want to volunteer, where should they go?

ALBRITTON: 6317 McCoy road. Our command station is set up. They can come any time throughout the day and we`d be glad to put them on a team and get them out to help.

GRACE: And that`s there in Orlando?

ALBRITTON: Yes.

GRACE: What hours do you guys search?

ALBRITTON: Well, we search -- we start at 8:00 a.m. And send our last teams out about 5:00, 5:30.

GRACE: Where do you believe the search will be tomorrow?

ALBRITTON: It will still concentrate in and around the airport.

GRACE: Mandy, why are you searching around the airport?

ALBRITTON: Based on the law enforcement investigation, that`s where they believe we need to look. We`re not sending searchers out into a random field. I`m not going to jeopardize anyone`s health or safety in an area where we don`t think she is.

GRACE: Back to Natisha, what is happening there at the home?

LANCE: Well, police are still staying around the area, Nancy, kind of patrolling up and down the street. We don`t know exactly what they`re doing. It seems as if they`re still trying to keep the peace with protesters over here, trying to make sure that they stay out of the middle of the street and on to either side of the sidewalk, either on the side that is the Anthony`s` home is on or on the other side across the street.

GRACE: Natisha, just for a moment, let me get you to switch gears, everyone. Natisha Lance joining us there at the Anthony home. Cindy Anthony, the grandmother, is totally supporting her daughter. But as the evidence mounts, many people find it difficult to believe she has walked free again. The evidence mounting. The state building a case of murder against Casey Anthony. Tell me what these new charges are specifically, Natisha.

LANCE: Well, the new charges specifically, Nancy, it`s two counts each of uttering a forged check, petty theft and fraudulent use of a personal I.D. And those come from Casey Anthony`s friend Amy Huizenga, who said she went out of town, she left her car with Casey, she had her checkbook in the car. Casey apparently took her checkbook, went on a shopping spree of sorts, went to Target, started writing checks out and cleared her banking account out of about $700.

GRACE: To the lawyers, Daniel Horowitz out of San Francisco, Joey Jackson out of New York. Daniel Horowitz, do you believe that this is part of a police strategy? Because police knew about these checks several weeks ago. I read about them in a sworn affidavit that went with the search warrant. But, yet, they let her be released, then rearrested.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, you know how it is. They don`t want to arrest her for murder until they`re ready. Otherwise, the clock starts ticking and they will be forced by Mr. Baez, who is a smart attorney, to trial before they`re ready. So they`re letting her out. Then when public pressure mounts, they`re putting her back in. But they really don`t have a murder case. I disagree with you when they say they`re putting together a murder case. You have a child that`s missing. But to me it`s either an accidental death or maybe a crime of passion. They have no sign of premeditation.

GRACE: Let me see Horowitz just a moment. Horowitz, what did you do, look in your crystal ball and determine how the murder took place? I see you shaking your head yes. That`s good to know.

HOROWITZ: Well, first of all, listen to the nonsense .

GRACE: You can add clairvoyance to your ad in the yellow pages.

HOROWITZ: I don`t have an ad in the yellow pages. I listened to that nonsense about the chloroform. You know what that was? Cleaning. She cleaned the trunk. The child died in the house, buried the child in back, transported it and cleaned it.

GRACE: No, no.

HOROWITZ: Yes.

GRACE: Daniel Horowitz, do your research. Chloroform has been banned for consumer use since around 1977 by the FDA.

HOROWITZ: I know, but she looked it up and it`s a cleaner. It`s a good cleaner.

GRACE: If you want to do cleaning, hop on down to the Piggly-Wiggly and get some Lysol and some 409. You know, Joey Jackson, don`t give me second verse same as the first.

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, listen, let me just say this. Here`s the reality, Nancy. Here`s my concern. If they want to charge her with murder, they should charge her with murder. I do agree that they are building a case. But at this point apparently there`s some lack of confidence with the case and they`re reluctant to go forward. The other issue is .

GRACE: You know what, you don`t know that, Jackson, lack of confidence. But I do agree with you. The longer they have to build the case, the better for them.

JACKSON: And of course you don`t want to jump the gun, so to speak, and proceed too early when there could be other evidence that needs to be unearthed. But at this time clearly they`re building a case. They`re not yet ready to move forward with it. But if they want to arrest her, stop speculating about chloroform, arrest her.

GRACE: Well, they have plenty to arrest her on, all these bad checks for now. Everybody, let`s take a quick break. As we go to break our thoughts and prayers tonight to CNN`s Jack Cafferty and his family. Jack`s beloved wife of 35 years, Carol, passed away unexpectedly. Besides her devotion to her husband, her family, Carol Cafferty extremely devoted to and loved animals.

If you want to make a contribution in her memory, go to the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals at aspca.org. Tonight, our prayers are with Jack, with his daughters, Leslie, Leigh, Julie, Jill, and their grandchildren.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CAYLEE ANTHONY, DAUGHTER IS MISSING: Sitting in jail, I got arrested on a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) whim today. Don`t even (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste your time coming up here. Calling you guys, a waste, huge waste. They`re blaming me for something that I never would do. I just watched the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side. I can`t sit here and be crying every two seconds like I want to. I just want Caylee back. I called to talk to my mother and it`s a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) waste.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re not telling me where she`s at.

ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Nobody in your family is on your side? I`ve got in my hands where your family, George and Cindy Anthony, put up promissory notes with collateral backing probably their house to get you out of jail. Straight back out to Leonard Padilla. These documents, what do they mean?

PADILLA: Well, they mean that somebody either paid $25,000 for each bond, which is a total of $50,000, or somebody`s on the hook for $50,000 payment down the road. So that is somebody that has not abandoned her, I can tell you that, because the way the Anthonys live, they don`t have $50,000 just laying around to spend on a bail bond.

GRACE: Well, not many people do. Back to Natisha Lance, our producer at the Anthony home. Mom Casey Anthony now behind closed doors in that Orlando home. Police have had to come to the scene to break up fights in fronts of the Anthony home. What is the movement there? And is Jose Baez, defense attorney, still in there?

LANCE: Jose Baez is still inside, Nancy. The movement still -- there`s still protesters around. Police are still trying to make sure that they stay on either side of the sidewalk. And they are still in front of the house with their signs. As you can see right behind me right here. And it doesn`t seem like anyone is moving. And they have told me that they are planning to be back here again tomorrow after they go searching in the morning, here in the afternoon to do their protesting all over again.

GRACE: Back to Donald Schweitzer, former detective with the Santa Ana P.D. You know, Donald, the evidence is mounting, especially with the turn of events regarding significant amounts of chloroform in the trunk and then the chloroform web search on Casey Anthony`s laptop. Question. With the evidence mounting to this degree against her, why was she allowed out of jail?

SCHWEITZER: Well, Nancy, maybe she was let out of jail so that she could further her search for her daughter. You know, but seriously, she was let out of jail because I think that the law requires her to be out at this point. And it shows me that the family wants to bring her back so that they can maybe protect somebody else. I`ve always held that there`s another person involved here. And maybe they`re still conspiring to protect somebody else.

GRACE: OK. You know what, there are a million theories on what happened to little Caylee. Out to the lines, Cathy in Arizona. Hi, Cathy.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: First I have a statement. You know, I just heard you say that the Anthonys may have put up their home for Casey.

GRACE: Yes.

CALLER: She had said and told all of her friends that they were going to give her their home. So there you go. But, anyway, my question is, with everything going on with the trunk and with the searches on the Web site, should they not find a body, they could consider it murder, would it be premeditated?

GRACE: Well, I think, in light of the searches online for chloroform, that would show planning. And let me remind you that premeditation can be formed in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye. In the time it takes you to raise a gun up and pull the trigger. Isn`t that true, Daniel Horowitz.

HOROWITZ: It`s true, Nancy, but you have no indication that the chloroform was not a cleaning agent. You always have Luminol, right, Nancy? It finds blood after you use Clorox to clean it. So she`s probably looking to clean up. So do not say it`s premeditation. There`s no evidence of premeditation.

GRACE: If she wanted to clean up, why was she looking up chloroform online? Why not use a cleaning agent?

HOROWITZ: Because you want a solvent that strips it right out of the fiber, not just something that oxidizes it.

GRACE: Obviously I know Daniel Horowitz, that doesn`t clean house. To sherry in Florida. Hi, Sherry.

CALLER: My question is since she left her car near the dumpster, it makes me wonder if anyone has tried searching our local dumpsters here.

GRACE: What about it, Nikki Pierce?

PIERCE: As far as we know, we don`t know specifically if they have or they haven`t, but I know that Orange County has conducted extensive searches of all of the areas that have been involved in the investigation. So I would surmise that they have. I would assume, but, you know, you know what happens .

GRACE: Everyone, we`ll be back. We`re taking your calls live but very quickly, tonight, CNN "Heroes."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN "Heroes."

TOM HENDERSON, CREATOR OF SHELTER BOX: As we speak, around the world, there are thousands, sometimes millions of people displaced by disasters and war. There will be no power, no buildings of course, very little water. So that the whole situation of disaster means people have been overwhelmed.

My name is Tom Henderson. I created a product called Shelter Box. It`s to help victims of disasters around the world. We`re inking of the whole package. Mosquito nets, blankets, cooking pots and pans, a 10-person tent. Shelter Box is designed enough so two people with carry it but it has to be large enough to get enough equipment in for 10 people. It`s a simple package of aid delivered to the most needy of people in the shortest amount of time.

A huge cyclone struck Myanmar in May of 2008. It was the largest recorded disaster in that country. Millions of people left homeless, over 130,000 killed.

We were one of the first aid agencies into the country delivering our Shelter Boxes. We want this to last for years to come, not just to get through the disaster, perhaps as a springboard for moving forward.

If people have lost everything, why should they lose their dignity as well? We were very keen to deliver aid, to give people their dignity. Put them back in control.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved. Cnn.com/heroes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and more important, the people who touched our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Breaking news tonight. Deadline comes and goes. Mom Casey turning down an immunity deal in the search for her own little girl.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not accepting immunity. She doesn`t need immunity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information we got back from the FBI lab indicating that she was in the trunk of that car and she`s dead is certainly information we take very seriously.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to start looking for a little girl that`s walking and breathing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s living in total denial.

GRACE: Bombshell tonight. Mom Casey Anthony walks out of jail free. Free on bond again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An anonymous party posted Casey Anthony`s $500,000 bond. Her first bond rescinded after new charges of check fraud and theft were filed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was George and Cindy Anthony who signed promissory notes with bond companies to get the note.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is chaos, a big mess as you can tell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First forensic evidence suggesting that Casey Anthony`s decomposing body was at one time in the trunk of the car and chloroform was in that trunk too. It`s possible Casey used chloroform used intentionally but her child`s death was an accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Accidental or not, there`s a crime that`s been committed and someone needs to pay for it, and the fact that no one`s paid for it, that`s a problem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../05/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

Casey says She Left Her Daughter In Park

ORANGE COUNTY, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) -- The public story that has been most often attributed to Casey Anthony concerning the disappearance of her daughter Caylee may not be the same one she is telling privately.

According to the man who drove Casey Anthony around during the time she was first released on bond said Friday that Casey told him she left three year old Caylee with her babysitter at Blanchard Park in East Orange County.

Rob Dick is a bounty hunter who took Casey Anthony to and from her parent’s home in East Orange County to the jail for appointments and her attorney’s office in Kissimmee.

Dick said that Casey was very talkative during the rides and spoke of her missing daughter in the present tense. And even though he wasn’t allowed to ask her any questions about the case, she gave him several names she said were involved in the disappearance of her daughter.
VIDEO: --Person who spent time with Casey Anthony talks about what she said

“She would try to, you know, give me leads and things to look into,” he said. “A lot of confirming of her story that she gave police.”

Dick also said that Casey never really showed any emotion.

“There was no crying,” he said. “There was no frustration other than the fact it seemed like it wasn't getting anywhere. She was telling a story and nobody was believing her.”

Caylee Anthony has been missing since the middle of June. Casey didn’t report her disappearance until July.

According to investigators the story she told them, and the one most often quoted in the media, was that she left Casey with a babysitter named Zanida Fernandez -Gonzalez at an apartment in Orange County. But when investigators went to the apartment, no one by the name lived there. Shortly after Casey was arrested and charged with child neglect making false statements and obstructing the investigation into her daughter's disappearance.

Investigators eventually did find a woman matching the name who had visited the apartment Casey named, but she said she didn’t know Casey Anthony or the child.

According to Dick, the story Casey told him was that she had left Caylee with Zanida Fernandez –Gonzalez and Gonzalez’s sister Samantha at Blanchard Park in East Orange County, and according to Dick, Casey Anthony was given a ‘script’ to use for 30 days that would be used to explain Caylee’s disappearance to Casey’s parents and the authorities.

Early in the investigation, Sheriff’s department investigators repeatedly said that Casey was a habitual liar and had told them numerous mistruths and the original story concerning the apartment.

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pa...Y&pageId=1.1.1

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Police Confiscate Gun in Car at Anthony Residence

Aired September 8, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 11 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Reports that mom, Casey, has created a new and elaborate story full of details about the day little Caylee went missing, something completely different. Police arrive at the Anthony home in the early morning hours to confiscate a gun, that handgun reported to police by a tipster. This as reports emerge that grandmother, Cindy, on the verge of kicking mom, Casey, out of the Anthony home just before little Caylee goes missing. Texas-based Equusearch suspends search for 3-year-old Caylee. Why?

And all this as sources confirm there was so much of the powerful chemical solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey Anthony`s, car trunk, even the air in the trunk was saturated with chloroform, mom, Casey`s, computer revealing multiple visits to Web sites on chloroform. Investigators confirm there is forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee.

And tonight, tensions mounting outside the Anthony home, protesters demanding justice for Caylee, refusing to leave, grandfather George now facing potential battery charges after shoving two of the protesters. At this hour, mom, Caylee (SIC), refusing to meet with cops or feds to help find her little girl. Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do the right thing! Do the right thing (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Every day (INAUDIBLE) join me to look for my granddaughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God is going to tell you...

CINDY ANTHONY: She`s alive.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You should know better!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just been a crazy scene at the Anthony home ever since Casey was released.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George Anthony facing criminal charges, two counts of battery, accused of shoving two protesters outside his home and while clutching a hammer. And that`s not all. Cops also seized a gun from his car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Channel 9 has learned that an intense fight right before Casey left with Caylee in mid-June was over money that Casey had stolen from her own grandparents, from an account dedicated to paying for assisted living expenses. Tensions had been building over the theft.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: OK, what did the person do that you need arrested?

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter.

911 OPERATOR: For what?

CINDY ANTHONY: For stealing an auto and stealing money.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Channel 9 has learned Cindy Anthony had gone to a counselor who told her to kick Casey out. Cindy Anthony was worried that Casey would take Caylee with her, so the counselor told her to try to get legal custody of Caylee. Before that could happen, Casey and Caylee left, and Cindy believed Casey kept Caylee out of touch just to punish her. Relatives say Caylee was much more attached to her grandmother than she was to her own mother.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: You don`t know what my involvement is and stuff?

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey...

CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.

CINDY ANTHONY: What? No, I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me?

CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, don`t waste your call to scream and holler at me.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officials suspended their search for Caylee Anthony, saying wet conditions are making it hard to clear areas, but search crews plan to return when conditions are better. Meanwhile, bounty hunter Rob Dick says Casey Anthony told him she left Caylee in Blanchard Park with baby-sitter Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzalez. Dick drove Casey to and from her parents` home to appointments at the jail and with her lawyer. Dick says Casey Anthony was very talkative but showed no emotion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to the Anthony home. Standing by there in Orlando, Florida, our producer, Natisha Lance. Natisha, a gun removed from the home?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. Early Saturday morning, there was a gun. Police received a tip saying that there was a gun under the spare tire of George Anthony`s car. Police came to the home. They did find that gun. It was removed.

Now, the issue comes in because it is against the conditions of Casey`s home confinement to have a gun or any weapon in her presence, on property. Now, according to the judge, he`s not going to revoke Casey`s home confinement because she was not aware of this gun being there. She had nothing to do with the gun. But the gun was removed, and now no weapons are at the Anthony home.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us out of Atlanta -- excuse me -- out of LA tonight, Darryl Cohen, veteran defense attorney. Also joining us out of New York, Carmen St. George, also a trial lawyer. Darryl Cohen, I know that the terms of her being on home arrest are no weapons in the home, but under the legal theory of cartilage (ph), wouldn`t that include the garage, the toolshed, the car? If there`s a weapon in any of those locations, wouldn`t that violate the home arrest?

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Of course, Nancy, it violates the home arrest. But the fact that she didn`t know it, the judge is going to give her just a little more leeway just because she`s under home arrest, and it`s probably as good as it`s going to get for the moment.

GRACE: Right. Right. She didn`t know about it, Carmen St. George, just like she didn`t know how to break into that toolshed and steal gasoline, she didn`t know how to get into her grandmother, who is near 90 years old, into her rest home bank account and steal from it?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you really have to consider that her father was a deputy. He`s a former officer. And the court considered the fact that she didn`t have any knowledge that the gun was there. She wasn`t intending to use it. She had no connection with it. And really, it was a pass that the court gave her in consideration of the fact that this really technically could violate her, but they`re not going to use it to violate her.

GRACE: I`m going to go back to the theory, what we`ve learned recently, that just before little Caylee goes missing, Cindy Anthony, according to reports of a local affiliate, was on the verge of kicking Casey out, mom, Casey, out, and making her actually get a job like the rest of us. In fact, tensions had mounted so high, according to a local reporter, that grandmother, Cindy, had actually gone to a therapist about mom, Casey, stealing money out of her grandmother`s assisted living fund.

Out to Drew Petrimoulx, reporter with WDBO. What can you tell me about that?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Yes, well, there are those tensions that were building over some money that she had taken out of an account that was actually intended for her grandparents` assisted living. And it`s not just that. There was also MySpace records, where Cindy Anthony was talking about some of the ways that her daughter, that she had provided for, that she had provided Caylee and then talking about how her daughter had actually stabbed her in the back and keeping the daughter away from her. So through what we`ve learned, it`s obviously -- obvious that there was some tension there around the time that Caylee went missing.

GRACE: So she had actually sought out a therapist to deal with mom, Casey Anthony, stealing?

PETRIMOULX: That`s right. And the therapist actually said that she should try to get custody of Caylee and kick her out of the house. Of course, before any of that was able to go through -- you know, we`re not sure if she was going to go through with that, but before any of that could happen, Casey, you know, left.

GRACE: Left with the little girl. And back out to our Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by just outside the Anthony home. Isn`t it true that grandmother, Cindy, thought Casey kept Caylee away from her just to spite her?

LANCE: According to this local report, that`s true, Nancy, that she felt that Casey was trying to punish her in some type of way, ran off with Caylee to punish her.

GRACE: Out to the lines. To Linda in North Carolina. Hi, Linda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) this story.

GRACE: I`m sorry, Linda. I couldn`t hear you. Repeat?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I said thank you for following this story.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A quick question. Casey had reported that she ran out of gas and that was the reason for leaving her car. Have they verified that, in fact, she did run out of gas, or did she actually just park the car there?

GRACE: Interesting question. What do we know about that, Drew?

PETRIMOULX: That`s a great question and something that we haven`t learned yet. You know, we know the car was actually towed to the tow place and hen the parents came up and picked it up after that. I imagine if there was no gas in it, at some time, somebody would have had to put gas in it. But you know, we haven`t learned from investigators if they tested to see, you know, when gas ran out, if it ever did.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. I want to go out to California bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, who first got this woman out of jail. You are putting up $50,000 for anyone that can help find little Casey (SIC). Is that true?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s correct.

GRACE: Little Caylee. Why?

PADILLA: Well, I believe it`s important to find the child, give her a decent funeral because I believe that she is deceased, and somebody has to step up. So I`m hoping that somebody realizes that maybe they saw something at the Anthony residence on the 18th or they saw something between the 27th and the 30th, while the car was parked at the store. And incidentally, the car was -- the car was out of gas.

GRACE: It was out of gas. I thought you may know about that. Everybody, this $50,000 put up by Leonard Padilla for help in finding little Caylee. And tonight we learn that mom, Casey, has come up with a whole new scenario about the day little Caylee went missing.

And she apparently told the story to Robert Dick, who was providing security for Casey Anthony. What did she tell you, Robert, about leaving little Caylee in a park with numerous people?

ROBERT DICK, PROVIDED SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Well, basically, it just changed a little bit. The story is still kind of the same, but instead of the Sawgrass...

GRACE: The only thing that`s the same is the alleged Zenaida Gonzalez was there. Tell me.

DICK: That`s right. Yes, that she met her at Blanchard Park instead.

GRACE: So let me get this straight. It`s my understanding that you and mom, Casey, were in the car and that she told you she was at the park with Zenaida Gonzalez, her sister, Samantha, Samantha`s children and little Caylee, and that they took little Caylee at the end and said, We`re taking her and we`re giving you a script to read to police and anyone that questions her whereabouts. A script?

DICK: That`s what she related, yes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The evidence that`s out there is circumstantial. (INAUDIBLE) out there is being drawn up in someone`s mind. Just because something looks like it`s going the one way, it could be going in a totally different way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People want to know why won`t your client talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re assuming she`s not talking, and you`re also assuming she does not know where Caylee is.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I know who has her. I tried to contact her.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`d be standing right here by all of us. She`d be out searching, if she could.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now is getting Caylee back.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A new and elaborate story by mom, Casey Anthony, as to where her little girl is. With us tonight, the security guard that she apparently told this story to. Robert Dick, is with us. Now, let me get this straight. She said she left little Caylee in Jay Blanchard Park?

DICK: Well, she said she met with Zenaida in Jay Blanchard Park. During he meeting, while they were talking, little Caylee got in the car with the other two kids of her sisters, and when she said, Hey, where`s Caylee going, supposedly, Zenaida had held her back and told her that she was going to have to read this script and follow an outline.

GRACE: What became of the script and the outline?

DICK: Unknown. It`s just that she had an outline to follow, and that`s why she led the police on a wild goose chase.

GRACE: Back to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Drew, that is in complete contradiction of what she told cops earlier about taking little Caylee to Sawgrass apartments and leaving her there with Zenaida Gonzalez.

PETRIMOULX: Yes, and they`re on, you know, not the same side of town. So there`s a difference between where she dropped them off, Zenaida Gonzalez`s apartment, and then this Blanchard Park is on the east side of town. It`s a swampy, wooded area, so similar to the place where they were searching. There were some searches conducted in Blanchard Park, and you know, it`s the same kind of swampy, wooded area.

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author. Weigh in, Bethany.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, I`m not so surprised that she told Robert Dick a whole new story. After her daughter went missing, what does she do? She`s dates four different guys. She`s out on a stripper pole. She`s partying. That is the type of thing that has motivated her, not the loss of her child, not wishing to search for her daughter. It`s being with men. She`s boy crazy. So what`s going to happen when she`s in a car alone with Robert Dick? She`s going to try to impress him with a whole new story.

And I`ve said several times on your show that I don`t believe she`s motivated in terms of telling the truth to find her daughter. I don`t think she`s motivated by some external incentive, like helping her parents or saving her own skin. I think she`s motivated by flirtatious men and the idea of the idealized life that she felt her daughter was holding her back from.

GRACE: You know, Bethany, what importance, if any, do you attach to the revelation that just before little Caylee goes missing, grandmother Cindy apparently -- and it was about time -- gets tired of her, as she says, mooching and leaching, living at the home, not contributing anything, wanting her to move out? I think I get the understanding that she wanted her to move out, but she, Cindy Anthony, wanted to take care of little Caylee herself.

MARSHALL: Well, I think it tells us that she`s so callous and remorseless that she used her own daughter as a weapon against her mother. And I think many grandparents in the United States find themselves in this position, where they have children who are neglecting their grandchildren either because they`re drug abusers or they have personality disorders. And I would tell those people, before you make any big changes, use the legal system to protect the grandchild. If your daughter uses the grandchild as a weapon, protect the grandchild before you stand up to the parent of the grandchild.

GRACE: Joining us right now is a special guest, Patricia Young, who has filed charges against grandfather, George Anthony. Miss Young, thank you for being with us. What happened?

PATRICIAN YOUNG, FILED ASSAULT CHARGE AGAINST GEORGE ANTHONY: Oh, hi, Nancy. Thank you for having me.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

YOUNG: While we were here protesting, we came over to -- here for the search, and we ended up that evening in front of the Anthony home protesting. And there were about six or eight of us, and George pushed -- ended up pushing a male first and then myself. And he had told to us get off his property, and we were not on it. And anyway, he ended up pushing us. He had a hammer in his hand. And his son, Lee, came out and wanted to -- he took the hammer from his father and tried to steer him towards the garage.

GRACE: Miss Young, why were you protesting? What do you hope to gain by protesting?

YOUNG: I want to see Caylee brought home. That is the whole object of this, as far as I`m concerned. There were over 2,500 people out searching, and then the protesters here. We all feel the same way. We want little Caylee to come home.

GRACE: What do you make of Casey Anthony being free on bond?

YOUNG: I`m not for that at all. I think she should be put back in jail.

GRACE: You know, I want to go back out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport." Pat, under what conditions do you believe, if any, that mom, Casey Anthony, will ever tell where little Caylee is?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Nancy, I think she`ll tell when it will be worth something to her. And I want to bring this up about the Blanchard Park incident. She may just be telling a story to seek some attention, or she may be trying to distract the search team away from Blanchard Park. But at the same hand, she may be worried that the search team is going to find the body of Caylee in Blanchard Park, and therefore wants to place Caylee with Zenaida in Blanchard Park, say, See? I left her with Zenaida in Blanchard Park, so it wasn`t me, if you found her body. It wasn`t me who did her in, it was Zenaida.

GRACE: But you know, the deal Pat Brown, is that that`s not at all what she told police. This story, this fabrication that she told to Robert Dick, is that she was there, that Zenaida Gonzalez was there, Gonzalez`s sister, Samantha, her children. They were all playing in the park. They had been there for some period of time. They all got ready to go. And Zenaida Gonzalez puts Caylee in her car.

And Casey Anthony goes, Why do you have Caylee? She says, I`m taking her, and here`s the script that you need to read for about 30 days if anybody asks you where Caylee is. Have you ever heard such a ridiculous story in your life, Here`s your script?

BROWN: Well, no, it is a ridiculous story, but she is trying to explain away all of her own behaviors. And when something doesn`t work for her, she`ll change the story to the next thing that works. And the only reason she will give up any information is because she thinks that is going to protect her, so we have to listen very carefully to what she says.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s people out there looking, spending their time, spending their days looking for her daughter, and she knows where she`s at. That`s ridiculous. She needs to start talking. This has been what, 60 days now? It`s a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Caylee is missing, and continue to look for Caylee. She is not dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our concern is to find Caylee.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Whatever you guys want to take from my house, you want to take the shingles off the roof, I don`t care. You do what you need to do to bring my granddaughter back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every conversation we have revolves around finding Caylee.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where my daughter is. Yes, that is the truth.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Americans can think what they want, as long as they continue to look for my granddaughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, the revelation that Casey Anthony has a whole new story about what happened to little Caylee, extremely disturbing, daunting the hopes of so many people that have been searching for her, donating their time, their money, their resources to find her.

Back out to Natisha Lance there at the Anthony home. Natisha, how many volunteers came out to look for little Caylee this weekend?

LANCE: There are over 1,000 volunteers from all over the country, Nancy, looking for Caylee, even Patricia, who you spoke to. She came from two hours away just to be a part of this search.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla. You were in the home the last time she made bond. What are they doing in there? Did they ask her about where little Caylee is, or do they act like nothing`s happening?

PADILLA: The time that I was in there, she acted absolutely like nothing had happened. It`s almost like Cindy handles her with kid gloves. George walks a wide circle around her. And Lee just treats her like a little sister.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no right to live her here.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It`s the case that gets more bizarre by the minute.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A brawl broke out in front of Casey Anthony`s home as protesters refuse to leave when angry neighbors ask.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Baby killer! Baby killer!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of our neighborhood.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: The safety situation out there and the security problems we`re having is unbearable.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Deputies rushed over to break up the angry mob but they didn`t force the protesters to leave and that got neighbors even angrier.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve been putting up with this for six weeks. You know? My kid can`t play outside. We can`t leave the house without people trying to run us over. It`s ridiculous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) a bag of trash. You make her feel like she`s a bag of trash. Not giving (INAUDIBLE) her proper burial. What kind of mother are you? Do you love her or what? If I loved my granddaughter like that, she wouldn`t be laying somewhere where nobody can find her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s all about money and you know it. You know it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She deserves better than this. She deserves better than this from her grandmother and her grandfather who love her so much. How much do you love Caylee? How much do you love Caylee? You say you love her? Show us how much you love her. We love her, too. We fell in love with that little girl.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Tonight, apparently mom, Casey Anthony, refusing to meet with police or the feds, the FBI, about the little girl.

Straight out to the lines, Winifred in Louisiana. Hi, dear.

WINIFRED, LOUISIANA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

WINIFRED: Nancy, I`d like to know if anyone ever checked the dumpsters at J. Blanchard Park or even the landfill where the trash was taken to?

GRACE: Excellent question.

To Natisha Lance, standing by there at the Anthony home -- Natisha, what do we know?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we do know that when Casey first left her boyfriend`s house -- Tony Lazzaro`s house -- police did come because she had left her cell phone there. Now when they came, they picked up the cell phone and they also searched the premises at his apartment complex.

As to whether or not they searched the dumpster, we don`t know. But we also do know that Equusearch was searching close to a landfill that -- the dumpster at the Amscot where Casey left her vehicle would have been dumped, and that`s all that we know at this point in terms of searching dumpsters.

GRACE: To California bounty hunter, Leonard Padilla, you believe that there is a dumpster that could have revealed information?

PADILLA: That`s correct. If she didn`t bury her daughter in the backyard on the 18th and put her back in the trunk of the car like myself and Rob Dick believe, then the car -- when she pulled into the store, ran out of gas, and she couldn`t pull away from the dumpster.

My belief is that she put the child in the dumpster on the evening of the 27th -- excuse me, the evening of the 26th. Rob, on the other hand, believes that he put -- she put the child, if at all, in the dumpster on the evening of the 28th.

GRACE: You`re seeing exclusive home video from ABC News and "20/20." That`s mom Casey Anthony and little Caylee. You saw them playing in the pool and there they are inside.

Back out to the lines to Chris in Maryland, hi, Chris.

CHRIS, MARYLAND RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, thank you for your great coverage on this case.

GRACE: Thank you.

CHRIS: My question to you is, the car was left with no gas at the check cashing place and the footage that you`ve shown show many surveillance cameras. Has anyone gotten the footage -- those surveillance camera tapes? Have there any footage of that dumpster where she left that car perhaps, I believe, she did put the child in the dumpster.

Is there any cameras on that dumpster?

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, do you believe that there are cameras on the dumpster?

PADILLA: I believe that there`s cameras but I also believe that if there were film or anything like that, law enforcement would have it.

GRACE: You know, the problem with that -- to Pat Brown -- is that very quickly those cameras tape over.

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": That is a problem. I want to mention something else. It`s also possible she dumped the child, came back into town and then ran out of gas, so we can`t be sure that that dumpster has anything to do with it.

Good idea, though.

GRACE: Well, Pat, what about the theory of them pinging her cell phone out to that swampy area near the airport?

BROWN: Well, that is -- certainly something that`s rather fascinating, isn`t it? And that`s why you have to look at every possible location that child could be and follow through.

GRACE: Well, you know, another issue with that -- to Dr. Bethany Marshall -- is that was outside of her normal route. That was outside her going back and forth to the boyfriend, back and forth to Blanchard Park. So to me that waved a red flag.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": I think so and when you observe this girl, Casey, she really engages in a very narrow range of behaviors.

Even as a mother, I mean, I watched this video and she`s smiling at her daughter and she`s -- you know, she seems so enamored with the daughter and you really wonder if she sort of put on the mask of sanity.

She`s acting like she cares about the daughter or gravitating towards the attention that the daughter gives her like she may have been gravitating toward Robert Dick`s attention and made up a big old story to make him happy.

But that deep down she`s really a deadened individual who doesn`t have the capacity to attach.

GRACE: Back to Robert Dick who was providing security for mom Casey Anthony. She told him this bizarre new story about leaving the little girl with Zenaida Gonzalez at a park and Gonzalez giving her an alleged script to read to police and others that question where Caylee was.

What was her demeanor when she told you this story?

ROBERT DICK, PROVIDED SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY, SAYS TOT MOM TOLD HIM SHE LEFT CAYLEE AT PARK: Well, she has a very outgoing personality. It`s never down, always seems happy. And.

GRACE: She was happy?

DICK: It`s my belief she was giving leads, in her mind, at least, that would point me in a direction to confirm her story, though different still trying to give out the same Zenaida, the kidnapping, you know, in that direction.

GRACE: You said she was upbeat?

DICK: As far as just our normal contact it was just like any day with any other person.

GRACE: So her demeanor was not upset about Caylee. She wasn`t talking about the search? What else did she talk about?

DICK: To be honest, she just talks the whole time. I mean.

GRACE: About what?

DICK: . and it`s about anything. I mean the weather, the way some place used to be and now let`s -- you know, different stories there. I mean just about anything.

GRACE: What did she say about Caylee?

DICK: Caylee didn`t come up a lot in discussion. Now understand that I`m not allowed to ask her any questions. I`m just there. I -- it`s part of an agreement, I couldn`t question her.

GRACE: Right.

DICK: Or ask her anything, so I`m just there hearing what she has to say and she, like I said, is trying to tell me things to look into as far as Zenaida, the sister.

GRACE: Like what? What does she want you to look into?

DICK: To try to find them, to try to prove that her story is true.

GRACE: But like what? What lead did she give to you try to find Zenaida Gonzalez?

DICK: Well, nothing special. That`s what I`m saying. It`s nothing out of the ordinary that`s already in the police report.

GRACE: Got you.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, Darryl Cohen, veteran trial lawyer out of Atlanta, joining us from L.A., Carmen St. George, in the New York jurisdiction.

Darryl, don`t you just hate it when your client yak, yak, yak about nothing? Oh, that`s where the old Sears and Roebuck building used to be in. Now there`s a Winn-dixie there and they go on and on. Oh, by the way, you know what really happened the day my daughter went missing?

A whole new story, Darryl.

DARRYL COHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`s the old story. If you`re going to tell the truth, you never have to remember what you said. This woman cannot tell the truth. She needs to keep her mouth shut.

She needs to listen to her lawyer and shut up, (speaking in foreign language), let it be, because the more she talks, the more she says, the more out there she is and the more out there she is, the more obvious it is that she`s concealing it and I`ve got a feeling we`re never going to find Caylee at this juncture.

GRACE: With me right now famed forensic scientist Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky.

Dr. Kobilinsky, thank you for being with us. Kobi, you can`t tell me the DNA, all the tests are not back. They`re back. They`ve got to be back.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I -- honestly, I have no idea, I haven`t seen the reports, I haven`t seen anything official. I`m hearing a lot of things that the media are reporting but I haven`t seen any reports as of yet.

GRACE: Did I ask you have you seen a report? No, I did not. I asked you do you believe the DNA results are back?

KOBILINSKY: Oh, sure. I think the results are in but they just haven`t been made public yet.

GRACE: Because apparently what was taken out of the back of that trunk, and there are other samples, many, many samples, we just know that there was a possible blood stain, a stain in the back of the trunk. We know the hair was there, some type of fluid.

There`s got to be results back on that, Kobilinsky.

KOBILINSKY: I would think so. Presumptive testing for blood is very rapid. Hair analysis is very straightforward. Microscopy and then DNA. And we know about the air analysis by the body farm the University of Tennessee.

So, I mean, these results have to be in. We just haven`t gotten any reports back yet from these different labs.

GRACE: So Carmen St. George, what are they waiting on?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, I think everything has to be disclosed at a proper time. At this point she`s the subject of an investigation. That`s why she`s not giving any statements. They`re not releasing their hand. They`re investigating in hopes of finding the missing child, which is the focus at this time.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: If you don`t want to be knocked down, get out of my way. You`re on my property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not on your property.

G. ANTHONY: Would you please remove this gentleman, please? He`s on my property. Leave me alone. Do not come past here. Please, do not come past here.

Out of respect to these other people for a change. Honor them. Listen, old dude, I don`t care how big you are, how tall you are, you want to get off my property?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am not on your property.

G. ANTHONY: Get off my property.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t touch me. Don`t touch me.

G. ANTHONY: I can touch you. I just touch you. Next time I see you or anyone else on my property I will file charges. Do you think I`m kidding? I am not.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: What can you say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead in an accident?

G. ANTHONY: Shut up. Shut up. Shut up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: A powder keg waiting to blow outside the Anthony home. George Anthony trying to keep people out of his -- out of his yard, off his property.

Tonight with us is Patricia Young who has filed an assault charge against George Anthony.

Miss Young, you keep protesting, wanting justice for little Caylee. What do you make of Texas Equusearch going home? They`re not searching today.

PATRICIA YOUNG, FILED ASSAULT CHARGES AGAINST GEORGE ANTHONY: Well, they said it was too wet, that they couldn`t search anymore because they could do more damage than good.

GRACE: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO -- Drew, do you believe Equusearch will come back and continue the search or is this it?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, the thing is, they`re waiting for the floodwaters to go down. I`m sure you remember Tropical Storm Fay came through the area and dumped a lot of rain on central Florida and actually it`s a swampy area already with the amount of rain.

It`s actually -- you know, cut a lot of the area that they`re able to search by foot off. And what they are, they`re afraid that they might go over some of the remains of Caylee and actually, you know, further impede the search for her.

So, until all the floodwaters recede, they`re calling off the search for now.

GRACE: You know, Dr. Bethany, it must be so difficult, for instance, for the grandparents or other people, they are holding out hope Caylee`s alive to hear us talking about her remains being underwater or disturbing her remains.

You know, I was thinking about what Leonard Padilla said earlier about the way they treat Casey Anthony when she gets out of jail like they gingerly -- why can`t they see what other people see about the facts of this case?

MARSHALL: Well, I think, and I said this on a former show, it`s almost like pathological denial. They have to deny what`s right in front of them.

But, you know, Nancy, even if they did see it, even if they said our daughter`s a pathological liar, potentially she dispensed with our granddaughter and she used her as a weapon in a cruel and horrible way, what can they really do about it?

If the police are helpless, if the police can`t get her to tell the truth, even moving her in and out of the judicial system, how are two little old parents going to get her to tell the truth?

I mean there`s really true helplessness and in terms of the powder keg of rage that`s spilling over to the protester on the front lawn, in a way, they`re like the Greek chorus speaking the truth. The Anthonys denying it, the Greek chorus speaking the truth and it`s a huge clash of reality.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Allison in New Jersey. Hi, Allison.

ALLISON, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

ALLISON: Regarding Casey`s chloroform searches online, I was wondering if police have traced her credit or debit card histories or even those of her parents in case she took theirs just to check for possible searches online or purchases?

GRACE: I know that they have gotten all the information off the computer.

Pat Brown, how much more difficult is it to actually pin down a search for a purchase?

BROWN: Well, I don`t know that it`s going to be hard if it was done online. The real question is could it have been done some place else, like could she have accessed something to the hospital through her mother, through some other method?

That would be a little trickier.

GRACE: Well, bottom line is you can buy chloroform for about 60 bucks online. Just put a bunch of checks and questions. It`s not very difficult at all.

Out to Eden in California, hi, Eden.

EDEN, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you? I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you for watching and for calling in. What`s your question?

EDEN: I was just wondering if Cindy Anthony is going to be charged for tampering with evidence when she washed Casey`s pants that were found in the car.

GRACE: Good question. What about it, Darryl Cohen?

COHEN: Charge with tampering with evidence. That`s just such a minor charge compared to what she is really going to be charged with.

GRACE: Wait, we`re talking about grandmother Cindy.

COHEN: Oh grandmother. I`m sorry. No, she`s not going to be charged. She did what she should have done, she washed the clothes. And I think grandmother and grandfather desperately want that child back definitely.

GRACE: What about it, Carmen?

ST. GEORGE: I would agree, Nancy. I think that there`s nothing suggesting that the grandparents had any involvement in this case. We can`t let this turn into mob justice. The criminal justice system has to take place and at this point there`s an investigation going on.

GRACE: Carmen, Carmen. Carmen. It is working. Don`t you see her out on bail a second time?

ST. GEORGE: Nancy, it reminds me of the Joran Vander Sloot case where we had him going in and out. At this point, the criminal justice system has to take place. There has to be an investigation. We have to keep our heads up and keep looking forward to the fact that hopefully we`ll find the body in this case.

And keep in mind that the defendant is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

GRACE: OK, you know what? All I asked you about was the grandmother going to be charged. For this time I agree, with Carmen St. George and Darryl Cohen. She`s not going to be in charge -- be charged. She unwittingly, I believe, washed the pants even though they and the car did smell like a dead body.

Out to the lines, Michelle in Florida. Hi, Michelle.

MICHELLE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. My question is if there was evidence of a decomposing body in Casey`s trunk, how long would a body have had to actually be dead to find that kind of evidence?

GRACE: What about it, Dr. Kobilinsky?

KOBILINSKY: Well, you know, the early part of decomposition involves the development of vapors and we talked about (INAUDIBLE) and cadavering.

GRACE: How long?

KOBILINSKY: Not long at all. A matter of.

GRACE: An hour, a day?

KOBILINSKY: A day or two. Yes. And actually, decomposition begins upon death but it takes time for the vapors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. ANTHONY: What do you mean I don`t know? The person who is in the back of my granddaughter`s car was not my grand daughter. So why don`t you guys -- get your facts straight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Back out to the lawyers. She is free to go to her lawyer`s office from 10:00 to 4:00 every day to talk about what, Cohen? Six hours?

COHEN: I can tell you this. She`s going to use that if she possibly can just to stay away from the press. Because if she doesn`t stay away from the press and stay away from all of these friends and these guys that she`s flirting with, she`s going to open her mouth one time too often.

GRACE: And very quickly, Carmen St. George, apparently, a cop has been released from the force after having a relationship with mom, Casey. How badly does that compromise the investigation?

ST. GEORGE: It doesn`t compromise this investigation, I don`t think, Nancy. He was.

GRACE: What?

ST. GEORGE: He was released from the force because he himself made false statements about his relationship with her. It really should have no effect on her.

But, on the other hand, in regard to your question of how long she`s meeting with her attorneys, I got to give it to you, Nancy, this case presents some serious defense challenges.

GRACE: Darryl Cohen, can you actually say with a straight face having a relationship with a cop on -- on the force that`s investigating you for a potential murder is not a problem?

COHEN: Nancy, that`s my story. I`m sticking to it.

GRACE: Come on.

COHEN: No, I can`t say that.

GRACE: They can have a field day with that.

COHEN: No. It`s a major problem. If this case ever gets to a jury, heaven help the assistant state attorney who`s trying this case.

GRACE: The defense will have a field day -- a field day.

COHEN: You got it.

GRACE: He needs to be picking up trash on the side of the interstate for his next job.

Let`s stop and remember Army Private First Class Shane Penley, just 19, village, Illinois, killed, Iraq. Awarded the National Defense Service Medal, Iraqi Campaign Medal and Army Service Ribbon.

With a smile that lit up a room, loved wrestling, football, working out, playing basketball with his father. Leaves behind grieving parents David and Dana, three sister -- sisters, Crystal, Ashleigh, and Amber.

Shane Penley, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, happy birthday to the real star, our director, Brett. Just 21.

Happy birthday, Brett.

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/08/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Casey Anthony`s Former Roommate Speaks

Aired September 9, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 12 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Investigators launch a new and intense search of a completely different area, heavy woods near UCF campus. Why? This as reports emerge a whopping $1.5 million offer on the table for mom, Casey Anthony`s, story.

Tonight, mom, Casey`s, roommate at the time little Caylee went missing is with us live. What was her demeanor? What did she say about little Caylee? We obtained a list of items found by police in mom, Casey`s, car, including a knife. Clothing and bones found in a nearby park. Are they connected?

And angry citizens take the law into their own hands, mounting their own searches for Caylee, protesting nearly around the clock, even digging through the Anthonys` trash for clues, while grandfather, George Anthony, facing possible criminal charges after an angry confrontation with two protesters. Sources confirm so much of the powerful solution chloroform discovered by the FBI in mom, Casey`s, car trunk, even the air in the trunk was saturated. Investigators announce forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3- year-old little Caylee. Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony met with her attorney for most of the day today, leaving one local Orlando station to theorize that Anthony may be afraid to speak inside her own home. The station suggests that Casey Anthony is remaining silent because she fears that the Anthony family home has possibly been bugged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Curiosity -- that`s what tempted Lorraine (ph) to drive to the Anthonys` Hope Spring Drive home and take a bag of trash. She wanted to do her own Casey Anthony investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zanny the nanny is really Xanex. She drugged the baby so she could go out and party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An independent searcher also reportedly uncovered some clothes and bones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: What do you mean, it`s not your fault, sweetheart? If you`d have told them the truth...

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, why aren`t you trying to help investigators find your little girl?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want to slap her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just one curious woman named Lorraine, who was determined to help with the case by searching through the Anthonys` trash. Lorraine, knowing it was trash day, stopped by the house, grabbed one of the bags on the corner and put in the back of her SUV, determined to find something incriminating that Casey Anthony may have left.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she`s on the computer 24 hours a day, maybe she printed stuff. Maybe they threw it away, they didn`t shred it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tot mom Casey Anthony attended a scheduled meeting with her attorney, Jose Baez, today. A local Orlando station is theorizing that the reason behind these long meetings is that Anthony feels her home may be bugged and does not want to speak inside the home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was also MySpace records talking about how her daughter had actually stabbed her in the back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "What does a mother get for giving her daughter all these chances? A broken heart. The daughter who stole money, lots of money, leaves without warning and does not let her mother know how to speak to the baby that her mother raised, fed, clothed, sheltered, paid her medical bills."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: So your daughter stole money from your car?

CINDY ANTHONY: I want to bring her in. I want to press charges.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. Mark, tell me about this new search. It`s an entirely different area.

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Nancy, this may be the break we`re waiting for in this case, which has drawn on for -- since at least mid- July. Apparently, investigators looking into a wooded area, a heavily wooded area filled with water, near the University of Central Florida campus in east Orange County. They call it an area of interest. It`s an out-of-the way place, again, heavy wooded, lots of water in the area. And Casey at one time was apparently out there, which would have basically not been in her usual, everyday routine. Could they find the body of little Caylee Anthony in this wooded area?

GRACE: But wait. How do we know mom, Casey, was in the area? Was she pinged off her cell phone there?

WILLIAMS: They`re keeping that close to the vest right now. There`s no indication that they -- that they have cell phone records from that area. But it`s very -- it`s an area very similar to the Orlando International Airport, where searchers were at before, as well as Jay Blanchard Park, which is near the Anthony home.

GRACE: Well, let me ask you this. You say it`s near UCF campus. Didn`t she lie about attending classes, but wasn`t that at Valencia Community College?

WILLIAMS: Believe it was. As a matter of fact, you know, this is just her web of lies that she has, Nancy. She said she worked at Universal for a period of time. She hasn`t worked there for nearly three years. So this would just fit into her pattern of lying.

GRACE: Liz, let`s see that map. OK, so now cops are zeroing in on an area around University of Central Florida campus. They obviously have either gotten a tip that she was in the area or pinged her cell phone in that location.

Now, Mark Williams is with us, WNDB Newstalk. You state they`re searching, but it`s flooded. How can they search with all the water?

WILLIAMS: Well, they have various ways to do it. They have ATVs, which they can go in there. They can do foot searches. So those -- they have several different means of doing it because, remember, Sheriff Kevin Berry (ph), even though we don`t have Equusearch anymore to talk about, he donated money, and he has an airboat brigade that he has.

GRACE: Joining us right now, CNN affiliate WFTV`s Kathi Belich. Welcome, Kathi. What can you tell me about this new area cops are searching?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: What I know about that area is, apparently, it was cell phone records that show that Casey had visited three areas, one near UCF, a couple of days after Caylee disappeared, and that those three areas were not normally areas she would frequent, which is why they caught the investigators` attention.

GRACE: Kathi Belich is with us. Kathi, when they say this is off the beaten path, in other words, not one of her regular haunts, how far away is it?

BELICH: Well, the area, as far as I can say, is easy to get in, easy to get out off of a toll road. But there are areas there that are wooded, somewhat remote, not a lot of traffic in those areas, much like the area near the airport, not a lot of traffic, remote, no obvious reason for her to be there, and again, certainly out of her routine.

GRACE: Take a look at this dense foliage we`re showing you right now. You can see how difficult it is for searchers to dig through this heavily wooded area. The news tonight, cops are now focusing on a brand-new area for search. There`s a heavily wooded and right now flooded area near University of Central Florida.

Back to Mark Williams. Mark, how far away is this new area they`re searching from her home?

WILLIAMS: From what I can gather, Nancy, it`s at least four to five miles. But it`s well within traveling distance by her car. So it`s not -- it`s not a far drive whatsoever.

GRACE: Weigh in, Mike Brooks.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It sounds like the cell phone records are now coming into play in this case. We heard about it earlier in that area near Orlando airport.

One of the other things, too, Nancy, every time we`ve seen her car with evidence technicians around it, you notice that there is a paper underneath that car. One of the things they can do, if they were able to get to this area, is to take soil samples and up into the joint areas and see if it compares with the soil and the kind of terrain that`s where -- in the area where they`re searching right now.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. Big news tonight, the cops have now, apparently based on cell phone records, pinging, triangulating the particular phone calls someone makes from a cell phone -- when you use your phone, it bounces of a particular cell phone tower. They have now launched a new search in a heavily wooded area near University of Central Florida.

Everyone, with us tonight is a very special guest. Joining us tonight exclusively is a young man who was a roommate along with Caylee in the time -- along with little -- with Casey when little Caylee had gone missing. Thank you for being with us, Nate. This is the roommate of Tony Lazarro (ph). Nate, were you there in the apartment in the days following what we believe to be the time little Caylee went missing?

NATE, FORMER ROOMMATE OF CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, Miss Nancy, I was staying with Tony. I was in between leases, and we were going to get a new place as soon as his lease ended. So I was staying with him until his lease ended and we moved out. So I was there for the entire time that Casey was staying there full-time.

GRACE: Now, I`m talking about the time after Father`s Day weekend, around June 16 -- that`s a Monday -- and on.

NATE: Yes, ma`am, I was there.

GRACE: OK. What was Casey`s -- mom, Casey Anthony`s, demeanor?

NATE: I mean, she seemed like everything was normal. There was nothing that drew any red flags, certainly not on our end. I mean, no reason for us to be suspicious of anything. I mean, she went about her business every day. Some days -- you know, we`re in class 40 hours a week, Tony and I. We both go to a school that demands that we`re in class 40 hours a week, so we`re constantly in and out of the apartment.

But you know, when she was there, nothing seemed out of the ordinary. She always seemed like she had a smile on her face. You know, if there was laundry to be done, she would take care of that. You know, she would cook dinner sometimes in the evenings and...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. So while her daughter was missing, she was cooking up dinners for her new boyfriend?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Like what?

NATE: I mean, just normal dinners, you know? She would make, you know -- for instance, I think one night she made pasta for everyone. Just you know...

GRACE: Did she ever mention over the pasta dinner that her 2-year-old girl was gone?

NATE: No, ma`am. She did not mention to us that Caylee was missing. We were under the impression that -- that Caylee was -- that she was with the nanny. When she would ask us certain questions, you know -- or we would ask her about it, then we would just move on because it seemed normal to us, she was with the nanny, she wasn`t at our place, so...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Angry protesters nearly around the clock outside the Anthony home. That was a shot of one of them.

Everybody, with us tonight, a very special guest, Tony Lazarro`s roommate. He lived there with mom, Casey, after the time little Caylee went missing. Nate, thank you for being with us. You stated that she never once mentioned little Caylee was missing?

NATE: No, ma`am. She didn`t. There was a point where -- you know, we had asked her a couple of times, Hey, you know, how come we haven`t seen Caylee in a while, because when Tony and her first started dating, Caylee would come over to the house a few times, they would go down to the pool, or you know, whatever, Tony`s taking them out to dinner and stuff.

And so after a point, we -- she just hadn`t been coming around, and we even asked her, Hey, you know, how come you haven`t brought Caylee by lately? And it was always, Oh, she`s with the nanny, they`re at either the beach or they`re over at Disney World or they`re at Universal. And you know, to us, it is summertime. We were under the impression that Casey was working. So I mean, during the summer, children are, you know, off doing things, so (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: How often -- how often was Casey Anthony there at the apartment, every day?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Every night?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: She spent the night there?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: With Tony Lazarro?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: And during that time period, little Caylee was not spending the night with her?

NATE: No, ma`am.

GRACE: Where would she say Caylee was?

NATE: She said that Caylee was at the nanny`s. But when she started staying with us full-time, she had said that, you know, there were some problems at home, she didn`t want Caylee being subjected to it.

GRACE: What problems?

NATE: I`m not exactly sure on the specifics. I`m not sure if it was problems between her parents or if she was having problems with her parents. I`m not exactly sure as to the nature of the problems -- but that she did not want Caylee to be subjected to the environment. So she brought Caylee -- she told us that she brought Caylee to the nanny`s and that she was going to stay with us in the evenings, which -- I mean, we`re an apartment that`s on a 24-hour schedule. There`s constantly people in and out.

So to us, it did not seem like a good idea to have Caylee at our apartment full-time, so we thought she was doing the good motherly thing. You know, she didn`t want to impose herself on the nanny also, so Caylee would stay there in the evenings, and she would stay with us in the evenings.

GRACE: And nobody thought it was weird that the little baby would stay, would spend the night at the nanny`s instead of with her mother?

NATE: Not really. I mean, a 22-year-old single mother -- I`m not sure as to the habits of what a 22-year-old...

GRACE: OK.

NATE: ... single mother does every day. So we weren`t, you know, thinking along those lines as, Well, why isn`t she with her child every evening?

GRACE: Did she seem to have a job?

NATE: She did. Like, you know, we`re gone in class quite often...

GRACE: Yes.

NATE: ... so we don`t know if she was going actually to work. But she would, you know, bring home groceries from time to time. She didn`t seem like she was ever in need of money or anything like that. So it seemed to us like she had had a job.

When we would ask her about it, you know, if she was sitting home in the afternoon or something, she would, you know, say, Well, I`m working from my laptop today here at the house. And you know, she -- she told us she was an event coordinator. So those type of things -- it`s one of those things that you would think that someone could do with a laptop and a cell phone. They wouldn`t necessarily have to be in an office every time.

GRACE: Did she tell you guys that she was considering going back to college?

NATE: Yes, she had told us that.

GRACE: Where?

NATE: She had said that she had already attended Valencia for some time and that she was thinking about continuing her education at UCF.

GRACE: So she did say she planned to go to UCF.

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Are you aware that police are now searching heavily wooded areas there at University of Central Florida for little Caylee?

NATE: No, ma`am, I was not until just a few moments ago.

GRACE: You know, Nate, were you there the evening or the day -- I`m not sure of the timeline -- when grandmother, Cindy Anthony, shows up at Tony Lazarro`s apartment to find her daughter, Casey Anthony?

NATE: Yes, ma`am, I was there.

GRACE: What happened?

NATE: It was approximately late, late afternoon, early evening. Tony and I and Casey were all sitting on the couch. Tony and I were playing video games, waiting for the all-star game to come on for the evening. And there was a knock at the door.

GRACE: Well, hold on. Wait. Casey Anthony was sitting on the sofa, watching video games and waiting for the all-star game to come on?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: While her daughter is missing. OK. I was just getting the mental image. Go ahead.

NATE: And there was a knock at the door. Casey got up to answer the door. It was Amy (ph). I had never met Amy. I don`t...

GRACE: Amy Huizinga (ph)?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: Now, Amy Huizinga is allegedly the woman who loaned Casey Anthony her car and Casey Anthony allegedly took all her checks and wrote them to Target, to all over the place?

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK. Go ahead.

NATE: So...

GRACE: So Cindy Anthony, Amy Huizinga show up at the door. What happens?

NATE: Well, just Amy showed up at first. All we saw was Amy.

GRACE: OK.

NATE: Amy told Casey that she needed to speak with her, so Casey and Amy stepped outside...

GRACE: Did Casey Anthony look like she was upset?

NATE: Not right at that moment. But they walked outside to discuss something. I do not -- I cannot attest to what was actually discussed outside. They came back in the house, Amy and Casey, followed by -- who we did not know at the time, that that was Casey`s mother, but now we know. They were followed by Cindy Anthony back in. Cindy asked Casey...

GRACE: OK, let me get something straight. When Huizinga shows up at the door, she asked Anthony to come outside?

NATE: Yes, and talk to her.

GRACE: OK. Could you hear them or their raised voices?

NATE: No, ma`am. I -- we could not hear anything from that conversation.

GRACE: OK. So then they come back in, and with them is grandmother, Cindy Anthony.

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK, then what happened?

NATE: Cindy asked Casey to get her stuff and to leave with her. And Casey, you know, said that she did not want to leave but she would go outside and talk to her. The three of them then exited the apartment, and that was the last time that we, either me or Tony, have seen Casey.

GRACE: Did you hear Cindy Anthony ask, Where`s Caylee?

NATE: No, she did not ask that question while she was at our apartment, no, ma`am.

GRACE: Did she seem upset?

NATE: She did seem a little upset.

GRACE: Cindy Anthony or Casey Anthony?

NATE: Cindy seemed a little upset.

GRACE: So did Casey Anthony say why she didn`t want to leave?

NATE: No, she just said -- her mother said, Get your things and let`s go, and Casey replied, I`m not leaving. If you want to talk, let`s go outside and talk.

GRACE: So during this time, did she ever ask you or her boyfriend, Tony Lazarro, to help find little Caylee?

NATE: No, ma`am.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Suzie in Arizona. Hi, Suzie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I want to thank you for everything that you do for victims.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is there anything that law enforcement could have done differently or might learn from this case? I know they have very limited access to information because of this mother, but do you think they`ll learn anything from this?

GRACE: What about it? To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter, joining us out of California who put the bond up for Casey Anthony the first time. What do you think?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I didn`t quite understand the question, to be honest with you. I was...

GRACE: Will law enforcement do anything differently?

PADILLA: No, law enforcement`s doing a great job. I`ve worked with law enforcement on things like this before. The toughest job they`ve got is the stonewalling going on by George and Cindy and Lee. They`re protecting Casey to the full extent, and it`s mercilessly. What they`re doing to the system right now, they`re just taking advantage of law enforcement.

GRACE: Did you hear about that $1.5 million book offer?

PADILLA: That was no secret when we left Orlando, that there was some secrets in the seven-digit numbers that were coming up. And when people were asking us about it, we were saying, you know, We heard the same rumor that you guys heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She acted absolutely like nothing had happened. It`s almost like Cindy handles her with kid gloves. George walks a wide circle around her. And Lee just treats her like a little sister.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. Joining us tonight is the former roommate of mom, Casey Anthony, during the time her little girl was missing. Nate, after you discovered that she is a person of interest in little Caylee`s disappearance, did either you or Tony Lazarro speak with her?

NATE: I have not spoken with her. To my knowledge, Tony has not spoken with her, either. However, I`m not 100 percent on that detail.

GRACE: Did police search your apartment?

NATE: Yes, ma`am, they have. They have searched twice, actually.

GRACE: Did you know what they were searching for?

NATE: The first time, they had asked if they could search to make sure that Caylee was not in the apartment. We allowed them to do that. The second time they searched the apartment, I was actually out of town for the weekend.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: That was mom, Casey Anthony, coming out of her home the second time she was arrested. She is out on bond again, and now we learn there is a $1.5 million offer for, apparently, a pay-per-view special, probably rolled in with book and TV rights.

What can you tell me about it? Natisha Lance is joining us there outside the home in Orlando, Florida.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, actually, there is a $1.5 million offer on the table, Nancy. However, Casey Anthony`s camp is saying that they are not -- they`re just listening to these offers right now. Nothing has been taken up on these offers.

However, they are listening because they are trying to build a defense fund for Casey. So possibly if they don`t raise enough money for this defense fund, then maybe we can see some of these offers being turned around and her taking them.

GRACE: To Mark Williams, WNDB Newstalk, it`s my understanding that the Anthony camp has stated they don`t want to publicize these money offers.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, that`s apparently it. However.

GRACE: Then why did they send out a press release?

WILLIAMS: Well, first off, they`re also building a Web site, from what we understand, according to Attorney Jose Baez` spokesperson, Todd Black, who`s from a Nashville PR firm, who showed up just a couple of days ago.

But apparently they`re building a Web site, looking for donations. Also, you know we.

GRACE: Donations?

WILLIAMS: For her defense fund.

GRACE: Her defense fund, as opposed to donations to help find Caylee?

WILLIAMS: That`s about it. You know, because, I mean.

GRACE: That`s some good PR advice.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, well, let me tell you one other thing that I just found out is that the "Orlando Sentinel" is reporting that Mark DeJane(ph) who`s been retained by Cindy and George Anthony will be going to New York City, obviously, on a publicity trip, starting tomorrow, hoping to drum up some more interest nationwide if they don`t have enough already.

GRACE: Interest in what?

WILLIAMS: Interest in finding Caylee, Nancy.

GRACE: Interest in finding Caylee.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: Well, that I can understand, but trying to raise money for a defense fund, as opposed to money to get volunteer searches and continue to search for little Caylee? I find that very disturbing.

We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers, joining us tonight, Susan Moss out of New York, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, and joining us from Las Vegas, high-profile Seattle lawyer, Anne Bremner.

Susan Moss, this is a fine mess.

SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: Oh, my goodness. After her daughter goes missing instead of looking, she`s cooking? This is outrageous. It`s unbelievable. At least she wasn`t cooking up a good alibi, because she has none.

The facts in this case continue to mount. The air samples showing that there was a dead body in that car, the chloroform, all of the hits by the cadaver dogs -- all of the evidence is coming together and it`s pointing to one person, mom, Casey.

GRACE: What about this pay-per-view deal, Ray Giudice, $1.5 million?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, there`s no law that prohibits her from gaining any profit from this money prior to conviction of any crime, and of course, she has not been convicted.

So they may be negotiating. I tend to believe that that`s not going to be fruitful for them. The last thing you want to let this woman do is give any kind of interview or public statement.

This case -- and I think Susan is right.

GRACE: Come on, Ray.

GIUDICE: The circle of closing.

GRACE: She blabs every time she gets a chance. Why not get paid for it? I believe that`s the attitude. Did you hear what that body guard said last night? Blah, blah, blah.

GIUDICE: Hey, Nancy, as her defense lawyer, I`m trying to keep her from getting convicted and I think Susan is right, the circle is closing.

GRACE: Well, Anne Bremner, my point is, she yacks every chance she gets. In fact, the theory is, she spends all day -- I think it`s from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m., something like that -- shacked up at the lawyer`s office, yacking, yacking, because they`re afraid the home is bugged.

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they`re probably yacking about the book. But the thing is, Nancy, I wouldn`t leave my dog with her for the weekend, but that`s not enough to show that she`s a murderer of her own child.

GRACE: You know, I want to go back to Susan Moss on the possibility of a pay-per-view special. I guess that would be an interview with her, where she goes around and around and around.

Have you heard those phone calls? I mean, she never makes a point and she always has a very detailed answer.

MOSS: If she takes this mill for her divorce -- this defense till, it`s going to be -- it`s going to cause the entire jury pool to absolutely despise her. Maybe she`ll take that money and try to pay someone to act as Zenaida Gonzales because that`s the only chance she has.

GRACE: You know, to Lauren Howard, psychotherapist -- Lauren, what do you make of asking for money for a defense fund as opposed to money to help search for Caylee?

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: There`s nothing to make of anything that has any sort of substantial understanding. The thing that is most disconcerting about this case is this dysfunctional mother/daughter relationship that has begot an obviously dysfunctional mother/daughter relationship.

We -- there`s no -- no question in anybody`s mind that the mothering that went on of Caylee was not appropriate. Who`s responsible? Is Caylee responsible? Is Cindy responsible? And why is Cindy taking cover?

Why is everybody running for cover? Money to find Caylee? Do these people want to find Caylee? I don`t think so, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, I`m convinced that Cindy and George Anthony do want to find their daughter. As far as Casey goes, absolutely not. I agree with you on that.

I want to go back to Nate. This is Tony Lazzaro`s roommate, and Casey Anthony`s roommate during the time little Caylee went missing.

Did you see any change, Nate, in her demeanor before June 16th and after June 16th?

NATE, LIVED WITH TOT MOM CASEY ANTHONY WHEN CAYLEE WENT MISSING: No, ma`am, no change in her everyday demeanor at all. She didn`t seem -- you would think that even when we asked her, you know, why haven`t we seen Casey -- Caylee at all, you would think that a mother dealing with a missing child underneath that stress would, you know, break down at some point.

And, you know, there was nothing, no changes that we noticed in her behavior at all.

GRACE: Nate, what was her explanation as to the car running out of gas that very last time? Didn`t she have some elaborate explanation to Tony Lazzaro?

NATE: I`m not exactly sure. I don`t know what her story was to him about the car. I just know that Tony had left that morning at approximately -- between 11:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m., and I don`t know exactly when, and he went and picked her up want but I never asked what exactly was wrong with the car.

She never asked us to go down there and look at it or anything like that.

GRACE: And so every night that little Caylee was missing, she would be there at the apartment, go out partying, cook dinner, troop off to the back bedroom to Tony Lazzaro, wake up the next morning, have a cup of coffee like nothing is wrong.

NATE: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: OK. We are taking your calls. To George in Florida, hi, George.

GEORGE, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy, I would like to personally thank you for the awesome work that you do.

GRACE: Thank you.

GEORGE: But my question is, with the money that was stolen or, you know, the money that she acquired from the Target or (INAUDIBLE) or whatever it was, did anybody trace what she did with that money or investigate what that money went to? Did she pay somebody off? Did she buy chloroform? But definitely didn`t buy gas, but, you know.

GRACE: She certainly did not buy gasoline, George. That`s true.

To Kathi Belich with CNN affiliate WFTV -- Kathi, what do we know about her spending habits?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV: The only thing I can tell you -- one thing that I have heard was that she bought things that you would expect a 22-year-old woman to buy. I don`t -- you know, I have no information that she bought anything out of the ordinary, or that there`s evidence that she bought anything out of the ordinary, based on credit card receipts.

GRACE: I mean, Kathi Belich, let`s take a look at -- from whom she stole. Running up her parents` credit cards, stealing from her friend, Amy Huizinga, even going into her grandmother`s fund for her assisted living home.

I mean, there`s no telling how many people this woman ripped off, in an effort to keep up a lifestyle, as if she were working.

BELICH: Yes, that`s a good guess, as to why she was stealing that money. And I believe the big argument that occurred the weekend before Caylee disappeared was, in fact, about that money that Casey had stolen from her grandmother and grandfather`s account that, as you said, was being used to pay for his assisted living after he had a stroke.

Somehow, I understand that Cindy was able to talk the grandparents not into prosecuting, but there was still a lot of tension over that and I think Cindy -- between the money that was stolen from her and her parents, that was the -- you know, the.

GRACE: That was the straw that broke the camel`s back, you`re absolutely right.

With us Kathi Belich.

And to Mark Williams, isn`t it true that Cindy Anthony actually went to a therapist about how to deal with her daughter being such a mooch?

WILLIAMS: Yes, she did. She is a health professional herself, but she had to go to a counselor. And the deal was, the counselor advised her to take -- to kick Cindy -- Casey out of the house and then to take custody of Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Casey is not on trial. Right now, Caylee is missing. And that`s the word that I want to get out to everybody. Caylee is missing.

This little girl needs to be found. So instead of thinking that she`s already dead, there`s no answer yet. We have to find that answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s just been a crazy scene at the Anthony home. There are lots of protesters out there. I mean I`m talking about just people filling the sidewalks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not just out here because we want to be, we`re concerned for, you know, the toddler.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What kind of people are you? Where do you come from? Where in the hell do you all come from? Ohio? You need to go back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She killed an innocent angel baby, just so she can go out and be a party girl. I just want to slap her and the parents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For a mother not to even come out in the front yard to come to a candlelight vigil, it`s unforgivable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live and joining us tonight, the roommate of mom, Casey Anthony, during the time little Caylee went missing.

Back to Nate, joining us from Orlando, Florida. Nate, tell me about your observations of little Caylee.

NATE: Caylee is a very sweet girl, very smart girl. You know, Dora Explorer is her favorite TV show. So, I mean, she can count to 45 in Spanish, which, you know, Casey told us that she`s learned from watching Dora the Explorer.

She loved to watch "The Pink Panther," I mean we would -- the few times that she was over, we would sit there in the living room from time to time and watch "The Pink Panther" or "Dora the Explorer."

She would sit down -- I`ve sat down with her, you know, at my laptop before and she can -- you know if you asked her to type some letters out she can find those letters from the keyboard and type them out, which to me is -- I mean, a really smart girl for, you know, a 2-and-a-half-year-old, a 3-year-old, and, you know, she was cool.

Her favorite phrase that she would say to everyone walking in, be "What up, dude?" That was the phrase she always uses. It`s "what up, dude?" Anytime anyone would come in the door, "what up, dude?"

And I distinctly remember one time where Cameron and I -- another friend of ours -- we had fallen asleep in the living room for an afternoon nap and she had gotten Tony`s drum pad that he`d given her and a set of drum sticks, and she sat there in the living room, tapping on the drum pad, just kind of chanting, "wake up, Nate, wake up, Cam," I mean just an adorable child.

GRACE: When you learned she was missing, what was your first thought?

NATE: My first thought was, how can she be missing? She is supposed to be with the nanny? I mean, we never -- I mean thought that she was -- when they said, missing, missing as in missing now.

GRACE: Did you ever see the nanny?

NATE: No, ma`am, I`ve never met the nanny or spoke to the nanny.

GRACE: Did -- were you ever there when the nanny called Casey Anthony on the phone?

NATE: No, ma`am, I`m not sure who would call her.

GRACE: Did you ever observe Casey Anthony on the phone with the nanny, to your knowledge?

NATE: Not to my knowledge, no, ma`am.

GRACE: Did you ever see Casey Anthony drop the baby off with the nanny, or the nanny come pick her up?

NATE: No, ma`am.

GRACE: What did she say about the nanny?

NATE: That she had been using the nanny for a few years. You know, that she takes her over there during the day sometimes, if, you know, she had things to do. And just along that -- I mean just a typical, almost like babysitter that she would use and that she had been using for seemed like a fairly good amount of time.

GRACE: Very quickly, back to Natisha Lance joining us in Orlando, what can you tell us about the recent discovery of bones and clothing in a nearby park?

LANCE: Yes. Police are now looking at these bones. They think that it`s probably an animal. However, they are looking into them. And not only was it bones that was discovered, but also some clothing with these bones, too, Nancy.

GRACE: To famed forensic scientist, Doctor Lawrence Kobilinsky -- Kobe, can forensic experts distinguish easily between animal and human bones?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Absolutely. Forensic anthropologists are trained to look at skeletons and make those determinations. I think it gets a little dicey, though, if the bones are only fragments of bones. Then they need to do more intense work. But there should be no problem identifying it as animal or human.

GRACE: And Kobe, if remains were found now of little Caylee, would we be able to tell whether she had been exposed to chloroform?

KOBILINSKY: Probably not. You know, if -- just in general, when a body is out in the field for a period of three months, there is no soft tissue. I don`t think any kind of toxicologist could make that determination.

GRACE: So it doesn`t stay in your tissue?

KOBILINSKY: Oh, no, in fact, it vaporizes and it`s gone quite rapidly.

GRACE: Do you believe, Kobe, that it is realistic that if Caylee were found now that she could be identified or that the cause of death could be identified?

KOBILINSKY: Well, again, just in general, when you`re talking about a body that has undergone decomposition and all you have left is a skeleton, it becomes very difficult to determine the cause of death. So that may be something that will never be determined.

GRACE: And back out to Mark Williams. Mark, I understand items in Cindy Anthony`s car were itemized. What was in her car?

WILLIAMS: Well, what was in her car was a backpack. It was a laptop computer, and it also included, of all things, a kitchen knife. And that kitchen knife was of interest to police, but that kitchen knife has since been washed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things we want to make sure is also that we don`t lose focus on the overall investigation, also, which is Caylee Anthony, a 3-year-old child that we`re trying to find.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Back to Raymond Giudice.

What about the possibility that their lines are tapped? There in the Anthony home?

GIUDICE: Yes, Nancy, I think law enforcement would be wise, go get a search warrant, do it properly, put a tap on that phone.

GRACE: What about it, Anne Bremner?

BREMNER: Absolutely. And they`ll probably try and do something to do additional wire tapping in the house. But it`s really hard to get as we know. But any suspect should think that the walls have ears.

GRACE: Well, I don`t think.

BREMNER: Especially.

GRACE: . a wiretap is that difficult to get, it`s just like a search warrant with probable cause.

GIUDICE: That`s right.

GRACE: It`s a little more invasive. Ray?

GIUDICE: That`s right. But just do it right so it`s not attacked by the defense.

GRACE: And Susan Moss, no way can you put a tap on the lawyers` office?

MOSS: Absolutely not. But if the lawyer is speaking while a third party is there, there`s no expectation of privacy.

GRACE: And Raymond, explain why no tap on the lawyer`s office?

GIUDICE: Oh Nancy, that`s just absolutely privileged. I mean that -- that would be a total violation of.

GRACE: So it`s privilege.

GIUDICE: It`s absolutely privileged.

GRACE: . for her to kick back and watch HBO at the lawyer`s office all day?

GIUDICE: It`s statutory privilege. It`s not even worth discussing. It`s -- nobody would go there.

GRACE: Bremner, what do you make of the $1.5 million offer? You know, in Florida, a convicted felon cannot make money off the crime, including child neglect.

BREMNER: But the problem here -- she talked so much. The only way she gets a good book deal is if she tells where Caylee is.

GRACE: Oh believe me.

BREMNER: It`s like a Catch 22.

GRACE: By the time that comes around she`ll have a whole new story, Anne Bremner.

BREMNER: Well, yes, he`ll go all the way around. But, Nancy, the only way they`ll give her the money is if it`s going to sell. And it`s not going to sell if it`s the same thing we`re hearing.

GRACE: Everyone let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Matthew Morris, 23, Cedar Park, Texas, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart and National Defense Service Medal.

Dreamed of college and being a teacher. Marrying his high school sweetheart. Loved motorcycles, video games, trips to the lake, trying out new barbecue recipes. Leaves behind grieving parents, Lisa and Glenn, one brother, one sister, fiancee Julia.

Matthew Morris, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but our biggest thanks is to you for being with us and inviting us into your home.

And tonight, a special good night from Lawrenceville, Georgia, friend of the show, Chris. Isn`t he handsome?

Everybody, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../09/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Attorney for Missing Toddler`s Grandparents Speaks

Aired September 10, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 12 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. Is mom, Casey, headed back to jail? Charges expected at any moment. And in a stunning move, the defense team demands all testing -- repeat, all testing -- of scientific evidence in the Caylee investigation be stopped immediately! The FBI discovers so much of the powerful solution chloroform in mom, Casey`s, car trunk, even the air in the trunk itself was saturated. Investigators announce forensic evidence of human decomposition in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. All indicators are it was 3-year-old little Caylee.

Grandparents Cindy and George Anthony hire a criminal defense lawyer, who goes on the attack, insisting little Caylee is still alive. Tonight, he is with us live. Mom, Casey, sits all day behind closed doors while volunteers continue to search for her little girl, a whopping $1.5 million offer on the table for mom, Casey`s story, a Web site in the works to solicit money for mom, Casey`s, legal defense fund, not money for the fund to search for her little girl.

And angry citizens protesting nearly around the clock, even digging through the Anthonys` trash for clues while grandfather, George Anthony, faces possible criminal charges after a confrontation with protesters. Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It smells like there`s a dead body in my daughter`s car. Why did you say that for? Because you know there was a dead body there! You liar!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lawyer hired by Caylee Anthony`s grandparents says people are blurring the lines between the couple and their daughter, Casey. He says accusing George and Cindy Anthony is the worst kind of judgment here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Families are victims. And we`ve forgotten that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More details emerge in the ongoing mystery into the whereabouts of 3-year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. Tot mom, Casey Anthony`s, attorney has filed a motion asking the court to preserve forensic evidence in the case and wants the court to consider additional testing. Also breaking today, a source believes local police will file some new check fraud-related charges against Casey Anthony in the next few days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: What did the person do that you need arrested?

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter.

911 OPERATOR: For what?

CINDY ANTHONY: For stealing an auto and stealing money.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you asked your daughter, Where`s Caylee?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And where is she?

CINDY ANTHONY: She`s (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?

CINDY ANTHONY: Because someone took her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: High-profile central Florida defense attorney Mark Nejame is lashing out against those who are going after his clients, George and Cindy Anthony.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say they`re in denial. So what? Allow them. If that`s what they need to process and grieve -- no, excuse me. If that`s what they need to process and grieve, then that`s what they need to process and grieve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nejame said one of the problems he`s trying to iron out is people are blurring the lines between his clients and their daughter, Casey. He says George and Cindy are working with authorities, answering calls about possible sightings of the little girl, but they aren`t digging up dirt, looking for bones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have anything to say about the new theory that Caylee might be dead, it might have been an accident?

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Shut up! Shut up!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They believe, they desperately believe, that Caylee is still here. And that`s their right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There has been speculation of possible book deals with the Anthonys. Nejame says the family has no intentions of doing that. Also, he says, the family did not pay one penny to bond their daughter out of jail last week, but they did sign a promissory note to look after her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the person leaves -- clearly, the Anthonys don`t have this kind of net worth, and that means the bondsperson will have something to go after and take everything that the people own.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With us tonight, a special guest, the attorney for Cindy and George Anthony, the grandparents in this case, the grandparents of little Caylee, now missing for 12 long weeks. Mark Nejame is with us. Sir, thank you for being with us.

First, I want to go to Mark Williams with WNDB. What`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, Nancy, as we`ve talked about earlier, tot mom, Casey Anthony, could be arrested at any moment. That`s what sources close to the investigation are saying. Apparently, she has passed some additional bad checks to area businesses, such as Winn-Dixie, which is a supermarket chain here in the South, AT&T and some other places of interest, as well.

These checks came her friend`s car, Amy Huizinga (ph). If you recall, Amy went on vacation to Puerto Rico, allowing Casey to use the car, and she allegedly took some checks. She`s passing this bad paper. She was arrested two weeks ago on fraudulent charges, as well. So that`s the big thing. Again, sources close to the investigation say that Casey Anthony could be busted at any moment, Nancy.

GRACE: Now, let me ask you this. If she is busted, as you say, will she go straight back to jail?

WILLIAMS: It`s my theory that she will be processed in, but the deal is, she`s already out on the $500,000 bond. She will have to be arraigned, of course, make a first appearance, and she will have to be let out on bail on that, if somebody wants to put bail up for those charges, which last time, if I recall, was only, like, $2,500 or so.

GRACE: Straight to Mark Nejame, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony. Sir, thank you for being with us. Everyone, Mr. Nejame is a veteran criminal defense attorney, no stranger to a courtroom. It`s a pleasure to have you on.

And at the very outset, sir, let me advise you that many of us continue to keep George and Cindy Anthony in our prayers, along with little Caylee. Their distress over her disappearance Is obvious to everyone on our show. We do not think they are part of any plot regarding little Caylee.

I am curious why they fell they should hire a criminal defense attorney.

MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE AND CINDY ANTHONY: First of all, thank you for having me.

GRACE: Yes, sir.

NEJAME: And I appreciate the kind words. At the risk of sounding patronizing, who are they expected to hire, a real estate lawyer? So this is...

GRACE: No, a PR person, if you`re intending a PR blitz, like the one you have conducted.

NEJAME: No, that`s not what we`re doing. What`s happened is, is that this is a complex legal system. There are more twists and turns in this case than probably any case I`ve seen in my 28 years of practice.

GRACE: Not for them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes, very much so. There`s been suggestions that George would be arrested for everything from the gun to the trespass case that`s existing. There`s comments all over the place. And I appreciate your comment because a lot of people don`t understand it, and that is that they are not suspects. They are not people of interest. In fact, the Orange County sheriff`s office, who`s conducting a very intensive investigation, extremely professional in the way they`ve been talking and dealing with me, have indicated that they are not to be involved in any way, that they have not been involved in any way.

Many, many people don`t believe that. If you read the blogs, if you read the e-mails, if you listen to a lot of the news reports, many people believe they are suspects. And I appreciate greatly your confirming that because the Orange County sheriff`s office has stated exactly what you said. They are not suspects. They are not people of interest.

GRACE: So they are hiring you, a criminal -- a veteran criminal defense attorney, because of the pending charges against Mr. Anthony?

NEJAME: No, not at all. It`s completely -- it`s about everything. We are veterans in dealing with the media. It`s something that we`ve been doing for many years. So there`s a media aspect to this case, obviously. I think this case has turned into the three-ring circus that it has for many reasons, and one of those reasons has been the mishandling of the media. These are just simple grandparents...

GRACE: I think -- all due respect, sir, but I think the mishandling of the media should be the least of concerns in this case. And Mr. Nejame, certainly, you have tried to tell your clients, George and Cindy Anthony, the reason the public is having this reaction to them, because they, many people believe, have the power to convince Casey Anthony to tell the truth about little Caylee.

NEJAME: Do you think that there are any people in this earth that want to find Caylee more than...

GRACE: No, I do not.

NEJAME: ... than George and Cindy? So do people not think they have done anything within their human power to do that? But...

GRACE: I do not think they have. And I`ll tell you what I think is lacking...

NEJAME: That`s speculation, though, because they have.

GRACE: You just asked me, sir, and I am giving you an answer! And the reason I don`t think that they have done everything that they can is because they are turning away from the truth, number one. I do believe those two, Cindy and George Anthony, love this little girl more than anybody else on this earth and want to find her more than anybody, including their daughter, Casey Anthony. But by precluding the possibility that little Caylee is deceased, they are prolonging a search for her.

NEJAME: We couldn`t disagree more. There`s been a lot of misstatements concerning that. People have wondered why they`ve not been out there in the fields digging with many of those wonderful volunteers who are going out there, who believe different than they do. They believe that Caylee is no longer with us. They bless and support those people. They just disagree with the conclusion.

Now, what we are asking for is for people to stop attacking them so they can go about the business, which is another path. They have hope. And people said there`s only a 1 in 100 chance that little Caylee is with us. But somebody has to be that one. So for them to hold on hope, is that a terrible thing?

GRACE: No.

NEJAME: It`s not.

GRACE: It`s not terrible.

NEJAME: It`s not. And for them to stick a shovel in the ground means they`ve surrendered to the universe and to themselves that Caylee is no longer with us.

GRACE: OK...

NEJAME: And they`re not ready to do that, and that should be respected and understood.

GRACE: What about the fact that by not encouraging and fully supporting the search for little Caylee, dead or alive, by turning away from the evidence, they are prolonging the search and prolonging volunteers, police, money, people`s prayers, their thoughts?

NEJAME: What`s been -- what`s been prolonging that are the distractions which we`re attempting to stop.

GRACE: OK, take a listen to this. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odder. I smelled (ph) rotten whatever it was, something decomposing in there. Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

I know what I know. Caylee is not dead. (INAUDIBLE)

GEORGE ANTHONY: You guys don`t know. The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s (SIC) car is not my granddaughter! So why don`t you guys get your -- get your facts straight!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: We got a notice about the car on Tuesday, July 15. When I finally met up with Casey, she said that Caylee was with the baby- sitter, Zanny.

Caylee wasn`t with her, like she had told me she was with her for the last month.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: She was kidnapped by the nanny and -- you know, and that`s what she maintained. She told me, you know, some things during the month of June because she was trying to look for her and trying to get her back herself.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There was no reason to believe that Casey and Caylee weren`t together at any time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: With us tonight, a primetime exclusive, the criminal defense attorney for Cindy and George Anthony, grandparents of little Caylee, Mark Nejame. He`s joining us live in our Manhattan studios. He`s a veteran trial lawyer.

I just played you a tiny bit of sound of your clients, George and Cindy Anthony, suggesting that another dead body was placed in their car trunk. This screams of denial. And the reason I believe so many people are venting at them, are venting at your clients, is because it`s perceived that they can get answers out of Casey Anthony.

NEJAME: And if they could, they would. But you know, denial -- many people have said that they`re in denial, but the reality of it is, is whoever our creator is has given us this wonderful thing called denial. It allows us to process great pain and great loss in our lives. And you know, you`ve got a psychologist on, I understand. The Kubler-Ross model -- you know, the first stage is denial of grief. The last stage is acceptance. And it`s surely not a linear process.

So for people to process as they need to, why should anybody be angry at them because it is taking them whatever it takes to figure out what they need to figure out? They believe today that she is alive. God bless them for that.

GRACE: I assume that that is not a rhetorical question, sir, and I will answer you. The reason they are angry is because a life, potentially, could hang in the balance. That`s why in every day that passes, either Caylee Anthony, a 3-year-old little girl, is in more and more danger alive, or 3-year-old Caylee is decomposing somewhere and may never be found. There`s no time for denial.

NEJAME: But they agree with both roads to be traveled. They agree that anybody that believes she`s no longer with us continue to conduct those searches. God bless those people. But for those that take another path and believe that she`s still with us -- you know, they`ve gotten over 20 different cities, people from 20 different cities in the last several days, who are wanting T-shirts and posters and everything else to be sent out for those who are still in search of a live Caylee. So they`re not impeding anything. In fact...

GRACE: You stated that there are two new leads in the search for Caylee. What are they?

NEJAME: I`m sorry, I don`t -- no, I said...

GRACE: I understand that there are two new leads?

NEJAME: No, I...

GRACE: Since you`ve been on the case.

NEJAME: No, I`m sorry. I`ve gotten -- in fact, there`s four now. I`ve had -- we`ve had four different people contact us concerning information they have as to having seen her. So we pass them...

GRACE: What is it? Where is she?

NEJAME: They`re different cities. We turned them over to law enforcement.

GRACE: Well, what are they?

NEJAME: We`ve spoken to law enforcement as recently as...

GRACE: Well, why don`t you want the public to know what the new leads are?

NEJAME: I would like to. I`m respecting law enforcement, which I know you surely want to do, and they`ve asked us not to state any of this on the public, not state it on the airwaves because it might impede, in fact -- it might, in fact, impede investigations. And the person that I spoke to was the chief with the Orange County sheriff`s department. So we confirmed that, but I`m not going to jeopardize...

GRACE: OK, I respect that.

NEJAME: ... any investigation. And I think you would. So we`re not going to go there.

GRACE: Let me ask you this, sir. How long had Casey Anthony been freeloading off her parents, stealing from her parents unstopped, unchecked, it was allowed?

NEJAME: And that has really nothing to do with what I`m talking to you about today.

GRACE: That may be true, but my question...

NEJAME: And if it`s true, I`m not going there because where I am going is the fact that there`s been these -- too many of these diversions, which are irrelevant and they`re sensational and they have nothing to do with finding Caylee. Caylee needs to be found, wherever she may be. And all we`re saying is let`s stop this media circus and let`s allow those who believe she`s still with us on this earth -- and if there`s only a 1-in-100 chance, then God willing, she might be that 1.

Let`s not forget about Joe Benet Ramsey (SIC) and that type of case...

GRACE: JonBenet Ramsey.

NEJAME: JonBenet -- I apologize for the mispronunciation. You know, the fact of the matter is, for 10 years, that poor mother was vilified and chastised and crucified in the press and by law enforcement officers and by the public...

GRACE: Well, sir...

NEJAME: ... and then she passes.

GRACE: ... many people still believe...

NEJAME: And then she passes. No, allow me to finish, please. And then she passes. And two months after 10 years, then she was exonerated. It can happen. It does happen. And if people believe that little Caylee is no longer with us, then God bless them for helping out.

GRACE: Sir, we`re going to have to go to commercial break, so please hold the sermon.

Let`s take the calls. To Donna in Ohio. Hi, Donna.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good. Hey, I have a couple questions. Has anybody questioned Casey about the chloroform that was found in the vehicle? And also, the woman on the television the other night said that it would be traced -- or the only way to order it was with a credit card. Has anybody traced anything, you know, back to a credit card where she ordered it?

GRACE: Out to Natisha Lance, our producer, standing by at the Anthony home. What about it, Natisha?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, if anybody`s asked her about it, we do not know about it. The only person that Casey has been talking to about this case is her attorney, Jose Baez.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. In addition to Mark Nejame, the attorney for Cindy and George Anthony, joining us live tonight and taking your calls, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta, Alex Sanchez out of New York.

To you, Renee. There`s no way that law enforcement has asked her about the chloroform. It was discovered after she got a defense attorney.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right, Nancy. And that was the smartest thing she could have done because she doesn`t need to say anything else. She is a suspect. I don`t care what anybody says.

GRACE: Alex?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: An operation (ph) of law, the police simply cannot speak to her unless they get permission from Mr. Baez, and I`m sure Mr. Baez is not giving permission.

GRACE: Back to Mr. Nejame, attorney for George and Cindy Anthony. He`s joining us here from our Manhattan studios. He is a Florida criminal defense attorney, practices in multiple jurisdictions. Have your clients acknowledged the chloroform in the car? Do they have any idea where it may have come from?

NEJAME: And again, that goes to an area that we`ve been specifically asked not to get into it by law enforcement. But I need to make one point very clear.

GRACE: OK.

NEJAME: It won`t be a sermon. I`ve never met Casey Anthony. I`ve never met her lawyer. I`ve never spoken to either of them. I`ve never had any communication with them whatsoever. We have nothing to do with that case. We have everything to do with assisting the Anthonys and their quest to find Caylee.

GRACE: Sir, many people have suggested, I believe erroneously, that Cindy Anthony, with a nursing background, may have had the ability to somehow get her mitts on chloroform. So that is a real issue for you.

NEJAME: Well, it`s an issue for people who choose not to believe law enforcement, who`ve clearly gone through all these issues and with hours and hours of discussions with my clients, and have made a determination that they have had nothing to do with this. They are not people of interest and they are not suspects. So anybody that wants to take these wild...

GRACE: OK...

NEJAME: ... horrifically...

GRACE: I asked you about the chloroform.

NEJAME: They`re wrong.

GRACE: I think that was a no. Everybody, with me, Mark Nejame, attorney for George and Cindy Anthony.

Quickly, we are asking for your prayers for attorney Sandy Schiff in the fight of a lifetime against leukemia. I`ve got some good news to report. Her bone marrow transplant a success. She is now producing red blood cells, indicators she is engrafted. She has another bone marrow test set. Sandy, please stay strong.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROOKS: During that period of time, did you have any communication with the child?

CINDY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you inquire?

CINDY ANTHONY: Every day. Every time I spoke with Casey, I asked if I could speak with Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you were denied that opportunity?

CINDY ANTHONY: I didn`t feel like I was being denied anything. It was an inopportunity, or there -- that`s all I can say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: With us tonight, the criminal defense attorney now working for George and Cindy Anthony, Mark Nejame.

We are taking your calls. Shirley in Iowa. Hi, Shirley.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to say your babies are beautiful and I (INAUDIBLE) pictures.

GRACE: I`ve got to tell you something. Number one, thank you. And Number two, since we started covering this case, all during the night, I`m in there just checking on them and just -- it is`s an effect on a lot of people. What is your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, us, too. Is there any way the mother can be charged, since she is the one that washed the jeans in the back of the trunk?

GRACE: Highly doubtful. You would have to show intent, and we`ll answer the question when we get back. We are taking your calls live, everyone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When you called in and said it smells like a dead body in my daughter`s car, why did you say that for because you know there was a dead body in there.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: No, I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have evidence that we have not yet made public that leads our investigators to believe that Caylee is deceased.

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s no new development.

Absolutely, she knows who has her. I know she`s alive and I know she`s out there. She`s coming home. She`s leading me to a place but she`s not telling me to the right exact location to which apartment it is because she`s afraid if someone walks in, that something may happen to Caylee.

My daughter may have some mistruths out there or half truths, but she is not a murderer.

There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car, full of maggots it stunk so bad.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Cindy, but these dogs are trained to find dead bodies, Cindy?

CINDY ANTHONY: The same dogs that cleared our house. There is no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child. She lived with me for three years. I`ve never seen anything.

She is not dead.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Everything she said doesn`t make any sense.

CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know. I`m not in Casey`s head. I`m not a psychiatrist. I thought I was here today to discuss Caylee, not to defend my -- what my daughter is doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With us tonight, the criminal defense attorney for George and Cindy Anthony. Right now charges expected to be handed down against mom, Casey, at any moment. This would require a re-arrest back behind bars.

Also, the defense team, unusual strategy, insisting that all forensic testing be stopped in the investigation in the search for little Caylee. This while a $1.5 million offer is on the table for basically a tell-all of Casey Anthony`s story.

We are taking your calls live.

I want to go out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What can you tell me about this claim, this motion the defense has filed to stop all the forensic scientific testing on the evidence?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Yes, well, her attorney, Jose Baez, basically wants the forensic testing to stop because he says he`s not getting to have a say of who`s testing it and where it`s tested.

He is worried that it`s not a controlled environment and that, you know, some of the findings might be skewed.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Mark Nejame, the defense attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta, Alex Sanchez out of New York.

Renee Rockwell, why should he have a say?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Because, Nancy, he ought to have a chance to have a crack at it himself.

GRACE: Well, he should have a say where it`s tested?

ROCKWELL: But maybe he could have somebody there at the place and they may not give him access to the testing.

GRACE: Well, Alex Sanchez, he absolutely can ask for his expert to be there during the testing. But to ask for all testing to halt is ridiculous.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, the reality is that motion is doomed to fail because this is not proper protocol. The protocol is that the items get tested and if she`s indicted, then she can hire an expert to examine those items herself and that is the proper protocol.

To take a preemptive strike like this is simply inappropriate at this stage.

GRACE: To Mark Nejame, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony, joining us tonight in our Manhattan studios, isn`t this putting the cart before the horse? I mean, if you ask Baez over and over, they say she`s only charged with child neglect.

So why are they gearing up for a murder trial?

MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR CINDY AND GEORGE ANTHONY: I`m not part of that defense team, couldn`t tell you.

GRACE: Wise answer.

What about it, Renee Rockwell?

ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy, you always have to prepare for the worst.

GRACE: Aha. OK. That`s the best you got. Sanchez?

SANCHEZ: Well, listen -- the defense attorney is doing what he can to make some type of a defense for his client. But there are times not to make motion and there are times to make them. He`s a little bit too early in the proceedings right now to make that motion.

GRACE: He certainly is. And the motion has no merit. He`s going to be laughed out of court to stop the state from testing its evidence?

I want to go back to the question from Shirley in Iowa. I`m going to direct this to Mark Nejame, the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony. The washing of the pants which clearly smelled like the car -- by your clients` admission, the car smelled like a dead body.

Many people have suggested that your client did that knowingly as if she intended to get rid of evidence. I have a problem with that theory, but I`d like to hear your response.

NEJAME: No, I agree with you completely. There`s beyond problems with the theory. Not only do you and I have problems with that theory but so does the -- do all the police detectives in the Orange County Sheriff`s Department.

So people that, you know, want to hide behind the anonymity and accusations on blogs and other places without any evidence, I don`t think we should go ahead and justify their speculation with any more comments.

GRACE: Let`s go to Caryn Stark, psychologist joining us in our New York studios.

Caryn, the reality is that when she opened the car, it was out of gas there at the check cashing place. She said it smelled like a dead body. The clothing of Casey Anthony, which could have been forensic evidence for the state -- pants and shoes -- also smelled the same, wreaking of human decomposition. Cindy Anthony washed the pants.

I suspect, and I would suggest that at that time she was in such a maelstrom of emotions about her granddaughter being missing and many, many other issues, that she didn`t consider her daughter`s clothes to be forensic evidence.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, I would suspect she didn`t consider anything to be forensic evidence. She couldn`t have been thinking that clearly. Obviously, she was in shock.

GRACE: They`re still in denial. So why would she have thought it then?

STARK: The denial is a good point because the denial is a suspension of belief. And when people are in shock, they can`t tell the difference between right or wrong. They`re not emotionally prepared to accept what`s going on.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Dana in Florida. Hi, Dana.

DANA, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi. I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear. What`s your question?

DANA: I just have a quick question. Now the chloroform that they said they got out the air samples and the smell of the dead body and the chloroform that was linked to the computer, wouldn`t that be enough to keep her in jail without bond?

GRACE: They would have to charge her, Dana in Florida, with murder if they want to no bond or higher bond. And it`s my belief at this juncture they`re waiting to get more evidence for a rock solid case of murder.

Why? Because, Dana in Florida, once the state formally charges, once they file an indictment, the defense for Casey Anthony can be in slap mistake with a speedy trial demand, making them go forward with a trial in three to six to nine months depending on the jurisdiction.

So when they finally charge her, they better be ready to go to trial in about two months.

Agree or disagree, Sanchez?

SANCHEZ: Absolutely agree with you on this point, Nancy. Besides, what`s the rush? She`s not going anywhere. Everyone knows her whereabouts, so there`s no need to rush and go to trial at this juncture. Wait until all the evidence is in.

GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI -- weigh in, Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Nancy, you know, they said there`s a lot of evidence that has not been made public. And I think there`s a lot that we don`t know yet in reference to this evidence.

You know -- and also, the chain of custody, they`re keeping very, very close eye on all of the evidence that they already have. The evidence custodian for Orange County, he`s making sure -- he or she is making sure the T`s are crossed and all the I`s are dotted and the chain of custody is very, very important. And they`re maintaining that chain.

GRACE: To Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, a famed forensic scientist joining us -- Kobe, you and I both agree that by now police do have the response, the results on the DNA tests out of the back of the trunk.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes, yes, Nancy. Not only do I think they have the DNA results. I think they have completed all of the other physical evidence testing. They`re just not making it public as yet for whatever strategic reasons they`ve got.

GRACE: Kobe, what else could they hope to gain by waiting to find a body?

KOBILINSKY: Well, I think a body can reveal a great deal depending upon its state. That`s what an autopsy is all about -- determining cause of death, manner of death, and approximate time of death.

So there are also may be clothing on the body that will have trace evidence. There`s a lot more potential evidence out there. They could be waiting for that.

GRACE: To Mark Williams, WNDB, what about this $1.5 million offer? Is that legitimate? What is it for? A pay-per-view interview, like a boxing match?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: No, Nancy, the last thing that we heard was the thing that you heard that they had an offer for a $1.5 million book, multimedia deal when it came right down to it.

Lawyer Jose Baez.

GRACE: Last time I paid for a pay-per-view was when Holyfield got his ear bitten off and, you know, that took about three minutes. I`m not doing it again.

WILLIAMS: I understand where you`re coming from. But right now Jose Baez says they`re taking all things into consideration. They have not struck up a deal or anything else.

GRACE: $1.5 million.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: I`m going to go. When we get back from this break -- to George and Cindy Anthony`s attorney, Mark Nejame is with us. $1.5 million. His clients have been bailing out Casey Anthony for plenty of years.

Quick break. We`ll be back with Mr. Nejame.

But as we go to break, a special happy birthday to one of the sweetest people I know with a heart of an angel, Donna Abrams.

Happy birthday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there is a dead body in the car.

There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots it stunk so bad.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: There was an overpowering smell of death.

CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have forensic evidence it has been returned to us regarding the vehicle, preliminary information indicates that there is decomposition in that vehicle from a human body.

CINDY ANTHONY: Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Maybe my daughter ran over something.

CINDY ANTHONY: Hair samples don`t mean anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They found hair samples in the trunk of the car that are similar in length and color to that of Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The information that we`ve got back from the FBI lab indicating that -- you know, that she was in the trunk of that car and that she`s dead. Certainly it`s information we take very seriously.

GEORGE ANTHONY: The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s car is not my granddaughter.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: With us the attorney for Cindy and George Anthony. Mark Nejame is with us, joining us in our Manhattan studios.

Sir, how are your clients dealing with Casey Anthony being in their home? They`re not allowed to speak to her about the case, correct?

NEJAME: They`re not supposed to be speaking about the case. And we have been, again, asked and I really wish I could say more but I have to respect, as I know you will, Orange County`s sheriff`s office request not to get into any of that.

GRACE: Have they tried before they got this directive from police to make her come clean? To make her tell what happened?

NEJAME: Everything humanly imaginable. People forget, Nancy, that it was Cindy`s call that initiated this entire investigation.

GRACE: And it was Cindy Anthony that went looking for her and dug her up at her boyfriend`s place. Went over there and found her along with Amy Huizinga and confronted her and brought her home, and started the search for Caylee.

I have not forgotten that.

NEJAME: Exactly. And so many people have. The fact of the matter is, is that what the focus seems to be is, why are these people not admitting what other people -- some other people believe?

Well, how can anybody process this? You lose your granddaughter, your beloved granddaughter. Your daughter is looking at who knows how much time in prison. Your family implodes in front of you. Hard enough under the best of circumstances, if there were any, to process this.

Now how do you work through this when you have threats and you have protesters and you`re being barraged by the media and microphones hanging in your window from the moment you wake up and lights flash in your face from the moment you go to bed?

GRACE: Speaking of microphones .

NEJAME: How? Give them the opportunity.

GRACE: . do your clients believe their home is bugged or their phones are tapped?

NEJAME: It doesn`t make any difference to them. They`ve got nothing to.

GRACE: Is that why Casey Anthony spends the whole day, kicked back at her lawyer`s office?

NEJAME: You got to ask them because my clients have got nothing to.

GRACE: I know you`re not part of that. OK.

NEJAME: But.

GRACE: Save your breath.

NEJAME: But we don`t care. We don`t care because they`ve got nothing to hide.

GRACE: OK. You`re not part of it.

NEJAME: About what they`ve got to say.

GRACE: And you don`t care.

Alexis Weed, attorney who has researched possible profits for Casey Anthony, what can you tell me about the possibility of a $1.5 million deal?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE STAFFER ATTORNEY, RESEARCHED POSSIBLE PROFITS FOR CASEY: Well, Nancy, if Casey Anthony did enter some sort of a deal, all of the profits in whether she could keep them would turn on whether she was actually convicted of a felony.

Florida has a statute that prohibits convicted felons from keeping proceeds derived from accounts of a crime for which they are convicted.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Morgan in California. Hi, Morgan.

MORGAN, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi there.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

MORGAN: Well, I`ve been wondering since yesterday when you had the roommate on, he had mentioned that Casey had brought Caylee to the apartment on numerous occasions. And he even recalls things that she had said.

Now I`m wondering if anybody had bothered asking him when did Casey stop bringing Caylee to that apartment. Was there a timeline.

GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, do you recall the last time he saw her?

PETRIMOULX: I don`t remember the exact date but, you know, he`s not the only friend. We`ve also heard from another friend that lived with them at the time. And they both expressed that she would be over there all the time and then she just kind of -- you know, stopped coming over at all.

And you know, Casey always had some kind of excuse that where -- she was either at Universal Studios or with a nanny or at the beach. So they just kind of said that, you know, Casey stopped bringing Caylee over.

GRACE: You are right, Drew. And they said it made perfect sense and she would always have this elaborate story, Mark Williams.

WILLIAMS: Yes. She always had a story of some sort. And, you know, that just goes back to she`s -- you know, this Zenaida Gonzalez who apparently doesn`t exist. And that`s pretty much it, because nobody saw Caylee after this 15th or 16th of June.

GRACE: Natisha Lance, do you recall the last time the roommate saw little Caylee?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It was actually on June 2nd, Nancy.

GRACE: Yes.

LANCE: And that`s the last time the roommate, as well as Tony, saw Caylee.

GRACE: So shortly before she definitely went missing on June 16th.

To Mark Nejame, the attorney for the Anthonys, did your clients ever meet, talk to, spot, see, drive by, this Zenaida Gonzalez person?

NEJAME: I sure wish you`d stop asking about the case. You know I`m not allowed to answer it. And I`ll go anywhere but I can`t get into that.

GRACE: Just yes or no. One syllable.

NEJAME: No, no, no. The answer is improper.

GRACE: Can you just shake your head?

NEJAME: Improper.

GRACE: Out to the line, Sue in California. Hi, Sue.

SUE, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Yes, I`m just wondering if it`s possible that Casey Anthony was using the chloroform to drug her child to -- like a baby sitter and.

GRACE: What about that theory, Mike Brooks? I`ve heard that floated.

BROOKS: That`s one of the new theories that`s out there. That possibly she could have used the chloroform to knock the baby out so she could go out and party, do whatever else she usually does, and maybe she had overdosed.

That, you know -- early on we`re talking about an accident.

GRACE: Well.

BROOKS: . possibly with the pool. Now they`re talking about a possible accidental overdose with the chloroform or an intentional overdose.

GRACE: To the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Alex Sanchez.

Renee, even if that were the scenario, it would still be murder one.

ROCKWELL: Absolutely, Nancy, because it`s an aggravated assault and she accidentally killed a baby, murder one.

GRACE: Alex?

SANCHEZ: I disagree. I think if she accidentally killed the child it`d be -- may qualify as manslaughter.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa. But that`s an agg assault. You can`t put chloroform on someone and claim it`s an accident?

SANCHEZ: You can`t, but it wasn`t for the intention of trying to hurt the child. The intent is try to put the child to sleep.

GRACE: That`s just like you pull a gun on me to scare me.

ROCKWELL: Alex, Alex.

GRACE: And whoops, it goes off.

SANCHEZ: You`re right. And you know what? That may result in a lesser charge.

ROCKWELL: No, but Alex, if you`re putting somebody to sleep and they go to sleep forever, that`s murder.

SANCHEZ: Well, I disagree with that analysis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Mike Brooks, apparently, Casey Anthony about to be rearrested on fraud charges. Is that part of the police strategy to a revolving door?

BROOKS: You know, it seems like there is a revolving door there, Nancy, with Orange County sheriffs. But I don`t think it`s part of the strategy. I think they would rather have her in jail, keep her in jail, to put some pressure on her.

But having her come in, then having her bonded right back out, don`t put any pressure on her at all.

GRACE: None, she`s just kicking back watching HBO.

BROOKS: That`s it.

GRACE: . and cable at her lawyer`s office.

To Dr. Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist, we cannot ignore the fact of the flooding in the Florida area. How will that affect anything they find?

KOBILINSKY: Well, if anything -- certainly complicates the issue. Immersion in water will slow down decomposition. What the flooding will do will make it more difficult to find a body if it`s there. Certainly complicates the search.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, do you believe the Anthony home is tapped?

BROOKS: Absolutely. I believe that there is a title three wiretap on their phone. They probably know every key stroke she`s making, every cell call that`s made to and from that house. As part of an investigative strategy, that would be something I definitely would have done and they`re probably doing it.

GRACE: And very quickly, Caryn Stark, any hopes, psychologically, that she will break down and tell the truth?

STARK: I doubt it. I doubt it. She doesn`t have real emotions, Nancy, no. She won`t do it.

GRACE: Everybody let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Jeremiah McNeal, 23, Norfolk, Virginia, killed, Iraq on a second tour. Loved basketball, eating at Golden Coral with his little boy, a computer geek, so devoted to his faith. Fellow soldiers called him preacher man.

He leaves behind his parents, grieving parents, three siblings, widow Nikita, 4-year-old son, Jordien.

Jeremiah McNeal, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight happy birthday to super shrink Caryn Stark. She`s finally 21.

Happy birthday.

And a special good night from friend of the show, Jacobi Hudson, a second year law student at John Marshall, and good night from David Schumer. He`s helping to raise funds in the fight against pancreatic and liver cancer in memory of his mother Ellen.

The Ellen Schumer Pancreatic and Liver Cancer Fund`s golf tournament, October 13th at Suburban Country Club, Baltimore. For info go to www.ummsfoundation.org/ellenschumerfund.

Everyone, thank you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../10/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Casey Anthony Police Interrogation Tapes Released

Aired September 12, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DIANE DIMOND, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight, just-released tapes of suspect Casey Anthony as she`s confronted by police. Wait until you hear what she said. Meantime, police continue to desperately search for her beautiful 3-year-old daughter, Caylee Marie.
Tonight, bombshell audiotapes as we take you behind closed doors to hear the actual police interrogation of a mother who waited more than a month to tell police her daughter was missing. Listen in as detectives press Casey Anthony for answers, their questions, her admissions as she`s confronted head on, the tapes that capture Casey Anthony spewing lie after lie to police. We`ve obtained every minute of them, and tonight, you hear them right here.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: (INAUDIBLE) at the apartment, at the stairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So you just walked her -- you dropped her off and...

CASEY ANTHONY: Walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times. It wasn`t (ph) just that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And when you dropped her off, who took (ph) her at that point?

CASEY ANTHONY: Zanny did.

I got off of work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee, like a normal day. And I show up to the apartment, knock on the door, nobody answers. So I call Zenaida`s cell phone and it`s out of service.

After about 7:00 o`clock, when I still hadn`t heard anything, I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic, and I went to a neutral place. I didn`t really want to come home. I wasn`t sure what I`d say about not knowing where Caylee was. And I ended up going to my boyfriend, Anthony`s, house.

She`s with someone that I absolutely do not trust, and I am absolutely scared that...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you don`t trust, yet was baby-sitting your daughter for a year?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t trust her now because of what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At what point did you stop trusting her?

CASEY ANTHONY: The moment that her phone was cut off and I couldn`t get in contact with my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you thought, Man, something ain`t right.

CASEY ANTHONY: Something is wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you started thinking that something was wrong, which police agency did you call first, us or the city police? Or who did you call first? Who did you go to first to help try to find her?

CASEY ANTHONY: No one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No one. OK. All right. OK. Well, I`m glad we got that straightened out.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DIMOND: Unbelievable. Good evening. I`m Diane Dimond, sitting in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, breaking news, explosive police interview tapes of Casey Anthony just released.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you talk to anyone about Caylee, about (INAUDIBLE) INAUDIBLE) Caylee, or about that she`s missing?

CASEY ANTHONY: Outside of a couple of people, a couple of mutual friends.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who did you talk to about it?

CASEY ANTHONY: I talked to Jeff, Jeffrey Hawkins (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who else did you talk to?

CASEY ANTHONY: I talked to Juliet Lewis (ph). She`s one of my co- workers at Universal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She works -- you still work at Universal?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do at Universal?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m an event coordinator.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What does Julia -- what position does she

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s also an event coordinator. We work in the same department.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You (INAUDIBLE) to Universal, where you said you were in an office to try to help find stuff that will help us find your daughter. (INAUDIBLE) so far, OK? And we get here, we get down to the hall, and they tell us you even don`t work here. You don`t have an office here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: until about two months ago

CASEY ANTHONY: No, he hasn`t worked here for quite a while.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ten months? How long?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s been at least two months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. He got fired in 2002. He hasn`t been an employee since 2002.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the girl?

CASEY ANTHONY: Juliet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. What about her?

CASEY ANTHONY: She left two months ago. That`s exactly what she...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juliet Lewis never worked at Universal Studios.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our purpose of coming here was to do what? Go where?

CASEY ANTHONY: I guess there wasn`t a purpose. There wasn`t a purpose whatsoever to come up here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So we`re wasting time, valuable time that ought to be spent looking for your daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unless we start getting the truth -- unless we start getting the truth, we`re going to announce two possibilities with Caylee. Either you gave Caylee to someone and you don`t want anyone to find out because you think you`re a bad mom, or something happened to Caylee and Caylee`s buried somewhere or in a trash can somewhere, and you had something to do with it. Either way right now, it is not a very pretty picture to be painted.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DIMOND: Sometimes the best thing a show host can do is get out of the way of the material, and tonight is just such a night. We have obtained the tapes police made during their one-on-one interviews with Casey Anthony, the mother of missing 3-year-old Caylee, who`s been missing now for 12 long weeks.

There are two interviews, both recorded on July 16. One early in the morning, about 4:00 o`clock in the morning, and it was recorded at the home of Casey Anthony`s parents. Now, the second interrogation was recorded later that same day, as Casey Anthony takes police to Universal Studios in Orlando.

Now, she told them that she worked there. She didn`t work there, and they knew she didn`t work there. Yet she boldly marched them past the Universal security desk to show police her office. They followed her down long hallways, waiting for her to crack, waiting for her to tell the truth.

Finally, Casey Anthony dropped her shoulders and she admitted, well, no, she didn`t work there. She had been fired in the spring of 2006. So that`s when detectives took her into a nearby conference room and turned on the tape recorder.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But here`s where it needs to end. Here`s where the truth needs to come out, OK? No more lies, no more bull coming out of your mouth. We`ve been very respectful. We`re taking our time and talking to you. We`re tired of all the lies. No more lies. What happened to Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do know. What happened to Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know where she is. That is the God`s honest truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Where was she last time that you put her somewhere? Where was she?

CASEY ANTHONY: The last time I saw her was on those steps, at that apartment that I took you to this morning, the same apartment that I took the other officers to last night.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you didn`t give her to anyone while you were there.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen. Listen. Listen to me. We even pulled the surveillance video from the apartment complex. And they have to keep this by law for several days, OK? And we`re not seeing you over there. We`re not seeing you there at all that day. You think that we`re stupid and we`re not going to do this stuff?

CASEY ANTHONY: I know you`re not stupid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we`re not seeing you there. So now if you`re not there and you`re not being seen there and somebody`s already saying that you`re not there, then everything else you told us is a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DIMOND: Boy, this is real fly-on-the-wall stuff as those police detectives sit with Casey Anthony inside a closed conference room at Universal Studio, and really, for the very first time, start grilling her.

Parenthetically, I should tell you this is the last time the police ever got to interrogate her.

Let`s go out to our guest, Scott Haines. He is a sheriff`s officer with the Sarah Rosa County, Florida, department (SIC). Scott, I guess you`ve probably had interrogations like this, but this woman is one tough nut to crack.

SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL, SHERIFF`S OFFICER: Absolutely. The investigators did a great job interviewing and interrogating this woman. They used some great tactics. Unfortunately, this woman is sticking to her series of lies and is doing absolutely nothing at all to help investigators find her child.

DIMOND: Sergeant, what do you do with somebody like this? She ostensibly is sitting there because she wants help in finding her missing daughter. Yet she`s lying and lying and lying. What do you do as a police interrogator to try to crack someone like that?

HAINES: Exactly what the investors continue to do. They stayed very focused during that. When she tried to come back with, No, I didn`t, just basic things like that, they stayed on her, stayed focus on their interrogation tactics. And unfortunately, when you have someone that continuously lies and is a pathological liar about everything that she seems to have told law enforcement, there`s nothing that you can do but continue your investigation, try to obtain enough evidence to pursue a case against her without her cooperation.

DIMOND: Yes, it`s pretty tough when she refuses to talk to you anymore. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst on the panel tonight. Bethany, we now hear her. We hear how she dodges and weaves, and when they catch her in one lie, she then begins to weave a tale going in the other direction. What kind of personality are we dealing with here?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, let me first say the investigators were brilliant. And there`s a saying in my field, If you ask a question, all you`ll get is an answer, meaning if you just say, Well, did you kill your child, and, Where is she...

DIMOND: Right.

MARSHALL: ... and you ask rote questions, you get rote answers. They did something very different. I listened to the whole tape. They supplied all the answers before they asked the questions. They spent about 20 minutes in set-up, saying, Look, there`s two possibilities, either you`re an evil monster and you`re a cold-blooded killer and you got rid of your daughter, or there was an accident and now you`re afraid.

DIMOND: Yes, but Bethany...

MARSHALL: Maybe she`s in a dumpster...

DIMOND: ... she didn`t bite on that. In fact, let`s go back to some of this tape. I want to play as much of it as we can today...

MARSHALL: OK.

DIMOND: ... tonight. Here, one of the police detectives starts telling her that it`s like a snowball rolling down a big hill and she`s at the bottom of that hill and is going to get crushed. Listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You roll about halfway down that hill, three quarters down that hill, and it`s a pretty big snowball, which means that there`s a lot of stuff going on right now. And I can tell you just for a certainty that everything you`ve told me so far has been a lie. I can tell you that with certainty. And let me explain why. Since I left you this morning, I`ve gone to every address that you told me. I looked up every name. I`ve talked to every person that you`ve (INAUDIBLE) to talk to, or tried to. I`ve reached out. I`ve talked to your ex-boyfriend. I`ve talked to Amy. I`ve talked to Tony. I came over here. I`ve already talked to all the employees and found out all these names that you`ve given me are people that either never worked here or have been fired (ph) here for a long time ago, OK?

So where we are right now is in a position that doesn`t look very good for you. And this is going to be your escape hatch, so to speak. This is going to be the point where you stop all lies and you stop all the fibs and you tell us exactly what`s going on.

I`m just being -- you know, being straight with you.

CASEY ANTHONY: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because obviously, I know and you know that everything you`re telling me is a lie, correct?

CASEY ANTHONY: Not everything that I`ve told you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Pretty much everything that you`ve told me, including where Caylee is right now.

CASEY ANTHONY: That I still -- I don`t know where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, you do. And you know...

CASEY ANTHONY: I absolutely do not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, let me -- let me...

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DIMOND: It gets a little bit heated there. Bethany Marshall, jump back in here. This woman looks right at these police officers as they`re saying, We think you`re lying. You know where your daughter is. And mostly, she just goes, Uh-huh, uh-huh.

MARSHALL: Well, see, but what they are doing is they are supplying the answers. They`re saying, These are all lies. That`s an answer. They`re saying it`s like a big snowball going down a hill. That is an answer that she can bite on or not bite on. Now, think of it like a big multiple choice questionnaire. She can start ticking off the things that apply or do not apply, and then they can begin to see, do the various responses match up? They can go into the various answers, see if one goes with another.

DIMOND: Yes. And that...

MARSHALL: And so it`s a very sophisticated process. It`s not just confronting her on lying, it`s giving the answers and then saying, This doesn`t match up with what you said before.

DIMOND: In 20 seconds, Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, is a woman who could do this also capable of killing someone?

MARSHALL: Well, pathological lying is associated with extreme disregard for the rights of others. So yes, the two do correlate.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you`re more afraid...

CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again, and I don`t want to think about it.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we found the nanny today and we found your baby, what`s your biggest -- what`s the next biggest hurdle for you in your life as far as maybe explaining something to somebody, or who -- what`s the next biggest concern? I know your major concern now is finding your baby.

CASEY ANTHONY: Honestly, that`s all I care about at this point.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DIMOND: Good evening, everyone. I`m Diane Dimond, sitting in for Nancy Grace. And we are revealing to you the behind-closed-door interrogations of Casey Anthony just released and bringing them all to you.

The Nancy Grace producer Natisha Lance has been outside the Casey Anthony home. She`s with us now. Now, Natisha, I understand that Casey Anthony has just gotten a visitor? Who is it?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, her attorney, Jose Baez, just arrived at the home. Now, there`s also two security guards who are at the home, too. They are backed into the driveway. I`m not sure if you can see over my shoulder here. But these also look just like the two security guards who were with Casey when she was released from jail most recently. They were sitting outside the house when Jose Baez arrived. They went over to the car. One of them escorted him to the door. Cindy Anthony opened the door, let him in. One of the security guards went inside with him and then came right back out and assumed his post right outside house, up against the garage.

DIMOND: OK, now, Natisha, I`ve got to wonder, all these rumors are rampant that she may, indeed, be arrested again on more check forgery charges. Do you think that that might be what`s about to happen there?

LANCE: Well, it could be a possibility because when she was arrested last time, her attorney, Jose Baez, talked about how he was very frustrated with the way in which it went down because he had contacted the police officers and told them that if they were going to arrest her, he would do it in a dignified manner, he would bring her down to the sheriff`s office and surrender her. So this time, he`s saying once again that if they`re going to re-arrest her, which it seems as if they are going to do that very soon, that he wants to do that in a dignified manner and surrender her himself.

DIMOND: Interesting -- on the very day that all of these interrogation tapes of her have been released.

Let`s go out to the phones now, taking your calls on these breaking developments. Shirley in Iowa. How are you, Shirley?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, Diane. How are you?

DIMOND: I`m great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have two questions, ma`am. The first one is, have they found out about the bones and clothing yet?

DIMOND: Oh. OK. And what`s your second question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The knife they found, did they check it for DNA?

DIMOND: OK, two good questions. Nikki Pierce is a local reporter there. Nikki, do you know the answer to either of those? Do we know about the bones and the clothing and the knife?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: We don`t know about the bones and the clothing yet. They were found in a park that is actually mentioned by Casey in one of these tapes, Blanchard Park. And if they`ve been investigated, we don`t have that information just yet. But it could be released any time. What was the second question?

DIMOND: On the knife? A knife has been located?

PIERCE: I`m not familiar with a knife being located.

DIMOND: Yes.

PIERCE: I know that a gun was located in George Anthony`s trunk, and that was taken out. And that was while Casey was out of jail, but it did not affect her status on home confinement.

DIMOND: Right. Now, I try to watch the NANCY GRACE show every single night, but I hadn`t heard about a knife, either, so -- all right, thanks for that.

Lawrence Kobilinsky is our resident forensic scientist. Dr. Larry, let me ask you here. Twelve weeks -- if something horrible, if the worst- case scenario has happened to this little girl, she`s buried somewhere in the wet ground of Florida after all these hurricanes, will there be much left to test?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: That`s a good question, Diane. And I think after three weeks, when a body is under the ground for that length of time, I think decomposition is all but complete. Skeletonization can occur in that time. It could be longer. It depends on a lot of conditions, the acidity of the soil, scavengers and whatnot.

DIMOND: Sure.

KOBILINSKY: But the likelihood is that the soft tissue would be expected to be gone.

DIMOND: Now, stand by, Dr. Larry, because I think Andrea in Texas has a question for you, too. Hi, Andrea. What is your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Ms. Dimond. Thank you so much for taking my call.

DIMOND: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So on the chloroform searches that they found on her laptop, can a computer expert look at the laptop and see if -- on the Web site, if she placed an order, if it was billed to a specific credit card, the shipping address, anything to that effect?

DIMOND: Gotcha. Dr. Larry, forensically speaking, I would think that a computer expert would know those things.

KOBILINSKY: There`s no doubt about it. The one thing that we are good at is documents and looking at hard drives on computers. If the search was performed on that laptop, the police know about it. If the order was made on a credit card, they know about it. If the order was delivered, the police know about it.

DIMOND: Yes. Forensically, you leave a footprint.

Let`s squeeze in one more phone call here. Rhonda in Florida. Hi, Rhonda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello. You`re doing a great job on covering the story.

DIMOND: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is to your psychologist. Has anyone noticed that -- (INAUDIBLE) -- when you get a new baby or a new brother or sister, you`re real jealous. Seems like Casey is maybe real jealous?

DIMOND: Oh, Bethany Marshall, jump in here. Psychoanalyze this in 30 seconds. Do you think maybe that`s what it was?

MARSHALL: Well, I think what Rhonda is referring to is Casey being jealous of Cindy Anthony`s attention towards her own child.

DIMOND: Oh.

MARSHALL: And yes, I think there is a possibility. When you think of criminality, sociopathy, antisocial behavior, that type of personality, they want all the attention for themselves. So they love other people as long as they`re need-satisfying objects, but they`ll slice them and dice them as soon as the attention is turned away. So I think that`s a brilliant question on Rhonda`s part.

DIMOND: All right. More of this tape when we come right back.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zenaida give you any money that day?

CASEY ANTHONY: No. I would not have sold my daughter. If I wanted to really just get rid of her, I would have left her with my parents and I would have left. I would have moved out. I would have given my mom custody.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the main thing you want to do is find your daughter and you don`t think lying to us is going to help us find her, why would you do that?

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I`m scared and I know I`m running out of options. It`s been a month.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you scared of?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m scared of not seeing my daughter ever again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And if you`re scared...

CASEY ANTHONY: And I`m honestly petrified...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you`re scared of not...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... of not seeing her again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... seeing your daughter again, OK, I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to solve that problem and help find your daughter quicker.

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s not.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DIMOND: Yes. Wait until you hear what else Casey Anthony says she`s petrified of. Good evening. I`m Diane Dimond, sitting in for Nancy Grace.

Let`s go to the attorneys. Doug Burns, criminal defense attorney, what do you do with a client like this? You`re Jose Baez. You go over to her house. All these tapes are out now. Can you ever get a fair trial?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, it`s very hard and it raises a lot of interesting issues, such as being able to get a fair jury, you`re right, and maybe having to move the case to a different jurisdiction on what we call a change of venue motion. Very, very difficult situation. The case, unfortunately, Diane, is being tried in the media, let`s face it. And it`s very hard to defend against that.

DIMOND: Yes. Joe Lawless, jump in here. You`re also a defense attorney. What do you do with a client like this, who has obviously lied, lied, lied, lied, oh, yes, and lied some more? What do you do to get her credibility back, or do you just wait for the trial?

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Diane, it`s not a question of the client`s credibility. What you have to do is challenge what the police did here, which is lock a 22-year-old girl in a conference room, aggressively...

DIMOND: Now, now, they didn`t look the door.

LAWLESS: ... brow-beat...

DIMOND: Didn`t lock the door.

LAWLESS: Diane -- Diane...

DIMOND: Just closed it.

LAWLESS: This is the most blatant violation of someone`s constitutional rights I`ve seen in years. This is why the 5th Amendment is there, to protect someone`s rights. And then to leak the tapes, to give the tapes to the media...

DIMOND: This was a Freedom of Information that -- you know, they were...

(CROSSTALK)

LAWLESS: ... to try to taint...

DIMOND: They were sent, I`m presuming, to the defense...

LAWLESS: ... the jury panel to deprive this woman...

DIMOND: ... and then to us.

LAWLESS: ... of a trial, if she`s indicted. Whether or not -- the police have absolutely every right to keep evidence in a criminal investigation to themselves, if they want to. They chose not to. The only reason for it is for shows like this to come on and accuse this woman of "spewing lies" about something that we don`t have any of proof of yet.

DIMOND: Doug Burns, jump in here. Was it OK for them to take her into a conference room at Universal, close the door, not lock it, like Joe said, and question her?

BURNS: Well, I`d rather frame it just in terms of what the legal standard is. The standard is if they create a truly coercive atmosphere, if you put somebody...

LAWLESS: They did that.

BURNS: And Joe knows this. I think he even wrote a book on this. But if you put somebody all the way in the back of a room with people hovering, it`s a question of fact.

DIMOND: But there`s a 3-year-old little girl missing!

BURNS: Yes. I don`t know the exact configuration in the room. But the other point is, is that, you know, you have the case for lying versus the homicide. They have no proof on the homicide. So it`s a mix.

DIMOND: And she hasn`t been charged with anything, folks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLEN: Our purpose in coming here was to do what? Go where?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I guess there wasn`t a purpose. There wasn`t a purpose whatsoever to come up here.

ALLEN: So we`re wasting time, valuable time that ought to be used to find your daughter.

C. ANTHONY: I`m trying to think of places where I know she`s been.

ALLEN: No -- you`re not answering my question. Do you want us to help.

C. ANTHONY: Yes.

ALLEN: Do you want us to help find your daughter?

C. ANTHONY: I do want you to help.

ALLEN: Well, then you need to help me. A good starting point would be to answer the questions, OK? If I say you were here because, and then you just ignore that, as if I never asked it and go off in some other direction, is that answering the question?

C. ANTHONY: No.

ALLEN: OK. All right. Let`s go through this again. We`re here because - - we got here how -- to do what?

C. ANTHONY: Because I lied, because I brought you up here. And honestly, I was reaching for another avenue.

ALLEN: And I`ll stop right there. I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to help us find your daughter.

C. ANTHONY: It`s going to.

ALLEN: Huh?

C. ANTHONY: It`s not right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIANE DIMOND, GUEST HOST: Boy, she finally got that right. It doesn`t help to lie to the cops, if you need help finding your daughter.

Good evening, everybody, I`m Diane Dimond, sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight.

At one point, the police detectives, who have taken Casey Anthony into a conference room at Universal Studios to talk to her, they flip on the tape recorder, and at one point, I want you to listen to this piece of the tape, they ask her, point blank, if she has hurt her daughter in any way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?

C. ANTHONY: No, sir.

ALLEN: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried that if we find that out that people are going to look at you in the wrong way?

C. ANTHONY: No, sir.

ALLEN: You`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and never returned?

C. ANTHONY: She is the last person I have seen with my daughter, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: That doesn`t help, at all. We also get some insight into what the police are thinking from some of this tape. They say there are two possibilities with Caylee. Either you gave her to someone that you don`t want anyone to find out about, because they`ll think you`re a bad mom, or something happened to Caylee, and Caylee is buried somewhere, or in a trash can somewhere.

Not even that statement cracks this mother.

Let`s go out to the phones now. Phyllis is calling in from Pennsylvania. Hi, Phyllis.

PHYLLIS, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi.

DIMOND: What`s your question, my dear?

PHYLLIS: I have a question for the psychologist.

DIMOND: OK.

PHYLLIS: I listened to both of these tapes on the Web this afternoon, thoroughly. Toward the end of the second one, Casey refers to Caylee in the past tense. She`s talking about things that she liked to do, and she went to Blanchard Park, and she referred to her in the past tense.

DIMOND: I get you.

PHYLLIS: I wondered if this would be like a show of guilt in itself.

DIMOND: Let`s go out to Sergeant Scott Haines. He`s with the sheriff`s department in Florida there, Santa Rosa County.

What do you think about that, Sergeant? Did you pick up on that?

SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FLORIDA: I actually did pick up on that count. And that`s a great point that she brought out. Any time that somebody refers to somebody as what they used to like to do, or anything in the past tense, investigators definitely pick up on that.

And that`s basically the subconscious coming out and saying things. There were a lot more things that she said in her interviews like that that she would catch herself when she said and she would try to change it.

In that same interview, she made a statement about, I would never harm my child, or I never dreamed I would harm my child or allow someone to hurt my child. She changed it. There`s all kinds of things throughout that entire interview that definitely, I`m sure, raised a lot of concerns and questions in those investigators` minds.

DIMOND: Yes. And it`ll -- it may come up if this thing goes to court. I say if. I think probably when.

There is another very interesting piece of tape. Rosy, I want you to cue up number six here. In this point, Casey Anthony almost apologizes. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: I`m sorry I`ve given you guys the run-around.

WELLS: Well, we`re not trying to be big, scary guys. We`re just trying to.

C. ANTHONY: Oh, I know.

WELLS: We`re just trying to make sure we get the accurate information, so we have something to work off of.

C. ANTHONY: I understand that. I just wish -- I honestly had more things to help with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Yes, well, Bethany Marshall, again, what is it going to take to make her spill all of the beans?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, she certainly doesn`t spill it here. And I think this dove tails with the last caller`s questions, referring to Caylee in the past tense.

What she does towards the end of this interview is she starts to get chummy with them. She says, look, you can look at my computer. Thanks, guys, I hope I didn`t give you a hard time.

It`s like she started to bond with them a little bit. And she`s going to give them a little gift at the end. Give them a little few clues, and people who are disturbed often have what we call context-dependent thinking.

They get wrapped up in the moment of what`s happening and they do not think about the larger picture. So she could have been thinking about how fun it was to be talking to these burly policemen.

DIMOND: Yes.

MARSHALL: . and not thinking about the possibility that this was being taped and she might go to jail.

DIMOND: Well, she almost sounded to me a little bit flirty there.

MARSHALL: Yes.

DIMOND: And I think the spotlight of attention is something that she is not shying away from.

Let`s take another phone call. Shelly is calling in from Tennessee. Hi, Shelly.

SHERRY, TENNESSEE RESIDENT: It`s Sherry.

DIMOND: Oh, hi. I`m sorry. What`s your question?

SHERRY: I was wondering, they said that Casey had used Amy`s car and stole the checks out of it. Have the police department and sheriff`s department checked that car for DNA?

DIMOND: Well, that`s a very good question.

Nikki Pierce is a reporter with WDBO Radio there.

Nikki, what do we know about Amy Huizinga`s car? Did they check it?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: We don`t have that information on whether or not it`s been checked. But at the time that Casey borrowed that car, it was about a week before she got arrested, which means that she had already abandoned her car at the Amscot.

DIMOND: I see.

PIERCE: It had already been recovered. It had the smell and everything already in it. We do know that Amy Huizinga has been very cooperative with police so if investigators asked to check it, then she certainly allowed them to.

DIMOND: I see. You know, one other piece of tape that I would really like to get to is number eight there, Rosy, if you can get that ready. We think of Casey Anthony as being such a tough cookie, so to speak. And I guess she is for being quiet for so long.

But at one point in this conversation with the police, she starts to talk about what she is really petrified of. And I want to go to Natisha Lance, who is sitting outside the Anthonys` house and that`s where Casey is with her parents right now.

Natisha, before we listen to this, I want to ask you, what kind of relationship do you see that Casey has with her mother?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, a lot people have asked that question, Diane. And actually, from people who are very close to the family, they`ve said that they were always very close, they were close friends.

However, there was a little bit of a different picture when Cindy Anthony came to pick Casey up from her boyfriend`s house, Tony Lazzaro. They said that Cindy was a little upset. It seemed like they, you know, may have been strained for a short period of time.

When Casey did spend time over there, she never spoke to Cindy over the phone in their presence. She would always leave the apartment and speak to her. So it seemed like there was some type of strained relationship, at least at that point in time. However, in the past, it seemed like they did have a pretty close relationship.

DIMOND: Yes. Well, Natisha, listen to this, and everyone out there, listen to this. When the police start to question Casey Anthony about what she`s really most afraid of.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: So you`re more afraid -- so wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?

C. ANTHONY: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself, because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again. And I don`t want to think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Yes, well, you know, that -- your mother always has the strings on you, no matter what. And maybe they should get Cindy Anthony more involved in questioning her daughter. That might get it off the dime.

Let`s go to another phone call, real quick here, Diane in Missouri. Hi, Diane. Nice name.

DIANE, MISSOURI RESIDENT: When they checked the trunk of the car -- the cadaver dogs -- did they check the dumpster and the landfill?

DIMOND: Oh, that`s a good question.

Nikki Pierce, do you know the answer to that, the dumpster that was right next to the car when they towed it away?

PIERCE: Actually, they did check the landfill. As it was explained to me the truck that took the garbage from that dumpster had a GPS on it and they knew exactly where to check in the landfill. It had a certain grid where it dumped so.

DIMOND: So they didn`t find anything.

PIERCE: They did check and didn`t find anything.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: My mom flat out told me yesterday, she will never be able to forgive me and I even told her, I`m never going to forgive myself.

Every day, I`ve been beating myself up for this. Every single day.

WELLS: Right.

C. ANTHONY: Not knowing where to go, what to do. Running in circles, literally, because that`s all I can do at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELICH: Remember we had those two people that we were talking about. The person who had an accident or made an accident or made a bad decision? And a person who`s just a cold-blooded callous monster?

That`s telling me that you are the second person, this cold-blooded callous monster.

C. ANTHONY: I`m not.

MELICH: . who doesn`t care and doesn`t want to help, because she`s afraid that something so heinous happened, that everyone is going to look at her and say she`s a monster, she deserves to go away, she deserves never see the light of day. This bad thing should happen to her.

I don`t want to believe that right now. But you`re not giving me no choice. You understand you`re giving me no choice.

This is -- listen, this is going to be the opportunity that you have, right now, no matter how heinous you think that what happened was to Caylee, this is your opportunity to tell us. This is going to be your only opportunity to tell us because what`s going to happen, we`re going to find out. There`s not going to be a question, we`re going to find out, OK?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Welcome back. I`m Diane Diamond, sitting in for Nancy Grace.

Let`s go back out to the attorneys, Joe Lawless, Doug Burns. All right, we have been listening all this time to this very explosive audio tape of this woman being interrogated.

Joe Lawless, say it gets to court. Say she is charged with murder. Do you try to get these tapes kept out of court?

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT": Oh, absolutely. And that`s going to be one of the biggest problems that she faces, Diane, because this is now so emblazoned on the public`s mind. It`s like I`m ringing a bell.

But I think what has to happen is her lawyers will file a motion to suppress and the circumstances under which this interrogation was conducted will be examined. I don`t think the tape is going to help the police in this instance, because it`s a very aggressive, coercive, brow-beating kind of confession over an extended period of time.

And I`ve gotten confessions and statements that were incriminating thrown out for a lot less. And I don`t think these statements would hold up if they were examined by a judge at that point.

DIMOND: Spoken like a true defense attorney.

OK, Doug Burns, let me ask you. This is a serious question now. This woman may be arrested again on some more check forgery charges. She`s been in prison, out of prison, in prison, out of prison.

Don`t the authorities in Orlando run the risk of looking like they`re really picking on her while she is down if they arrest her again?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I mean, it`s like a ping-pong match, I mean, back and forth, back and forth. Bail bondsman and bounty hunters showing up and bailing her out only to have her go back in. In and out, in and out. So you`re absolutely right.

How the public is going to perceive it, it`s hard to say. But, at this point, my understanding was that, the recent round of charges just formalized the earlier, you know, sort of complaint charges and that she`s still on bail.

But if they arrest her again and she goes in again, I think people are going to say, wait a minute, what is going on?

DIMOND: Yes, make up your mind.

BURNS: Right.

DIMOND: Either charge her or you don`t.

Let`s go out to the phones again. This time, South Carolina, Marge. Hi, Marge.

MARY, SOUTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: Mary?

DIMOND: Oh, Mary, is it Mary?

MARY: Yes.

DIMOND: I`m sorry, Mary in South Carolina. What`s your question?

MARY: I want to know, how does lying make this woman a murderer or even -- I mean maybe she`s telling the truth. Maybe she truly does not know where her daughter is.

DIMOND: Well, you have a point there, Mary.

Bethany Marshall, a liar does not necessarily equate into a killer.

MARSHALL: No, it doesn`t. But she -- I have listened to the whole interrogation. She did not aid at all in the search for her daughter. She didn`t give them one tiny little clue that led anywhere.

Is that a mother who`s concerned about her daughter? And Joe Lawless said that this is a hard-nosed interrogation? They -- this was not that hard- nosed. All they did, consistently, all the way through, was present conflicting realities that did not go together and forced her to make a choice.

For instance, they said, boy, you said you`re really concerned about your daughter, but you`re lying and lying. Now, which is it? So those two things don`t go together.

DIMOND: Yes.

MARSHALL: Or if you lie and lie and lie, and you -- don`t go to jail, you know, people are going to see you as a cold-blooded killer. Which way is it? So they kept contrasting this choice, that choice, this choice, that choice.

I thought it was a really good strategy.

MARSHALL: Sergeant Scott Haines, who is with the sheriff`s department in Florida, jump in here. When you hear attorneys attack the way you interrogate someone when you`re trying to look for a missing child, you get a little angry?

HAINES: I don`t get angry. I`ve dealt with plenty of defense attorneys on very serious crimes before during trials. And that`s their job and we have our job. I don`t think there`s going to be any issue whatsoever. These statements will not get suppressed. I`m sure there was Miranda read beforehand. This was not hard-nosed.

One thing that definitely concerned me during the interrogations was any time an innocent person is innocent and allegations are made that they did something heinous such as killing their child, they will make strong denials that -- to the point where they will get angry and sometimes even combative.

DIMOND: You know, Sergeant.

HAINES: That`s how angry they`d get.

DIMOND: , that is a very good point. And not one time in all of these transcripts that I`ve been reading all day does she get her back up and say, hey, wait a minute, now I am trying to help you. I am not a liar.

One more quick point I want to get out here before we run out of time. Let`s go to Natisha, our producer on the scene there.

Natisha, let me ask you one thing about something she said in this transcript about -- when asked about the baby daddy, the father of Caylee. She talks about having his obituary, well, somewhere at home.

Do we really know if this man is dead or alive?

LANCE: Well, it seems as if police are satisfied with the story that Casey has given that the father of Caylee is, in fact, deceased. His name was never on the birth certificate. She said that this is someone who was a close friend of hers that she had known since she was about 5 or 6 years old.

But then we`ve heard other stories that it may be possibly somebody who she went to high school with. So it`s still kind of unknown. However, police are still satisfied with the story that she has given to them.

DIMOND: Well, maybe. There has been so much said and disproved and, you know, we never know.

All right, Natisha Lance, great job you`re doing out there, by the way, my dear.

Time now for CNN HEROES.

This is CNN rows.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.

NINA CHARLSON, MOTHER OF FIREFIGHTER: There was excitement in his voice that his crew was going to be flown out into a remote area.

SCOTT CHARLSON, FALLEN FIREFIGHTER: Hey, it`s Scott. I just got called out to a fire in California. Just calling to let you guys know.

N. CHARLSON: And that was it.

KIRAN CHETRY, CNN ANCHOR: Eight firefighters are presumed dead after a helicopter crashed in northern California.

N. CHARLSON: I don`t think there`s any words of wisdom that you can give somebody when they just found out that their son or daughter has burned to death. There`s a lot of things that need to be done for those families.

VICKI MINOR, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: I`m Vicki Minor, and I take care of injured and fallen firefighters and their families.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Southern California is starting to burn now.

MINOR: It`s not good.

Our firefighters rarely die or get injured in the state they live in. So the foundation raises money to get families to the bedside of those injured to and to help bring other family members in when a firefighter is killed.

JONATHAN FROHREICH, CRASH SURVIVOR: She actually showed up in my hospital room the day after it happened. She`s there to do anything for me.

MINOR: We provide their motels, we give them money. Whatever is needed, we`ll do.

I hope they feel they can go on and fight that fire and know that we`ll take care of their family and their friends.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved. CNN.com/heroes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIMOND: Well, we have heard some bombshell tapes of Casey Anthony. But then again, it`s been a whole week of dramatic happenings in this case. Time now to take a look back at the week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Tot mom Casey Anthony could be arrested at any moment.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The state attorney`s office has just issued 10 formal charges against tot mom Casey Anthony for allegedly forging three checks belonging to a friend.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Whoa, whoa, wait. First I`m hearing of this.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Yes.

GRACE: I`ve asked you 50 times what goes on in the house and suddenly, I`m hearing they asked the Anthonys to take a lie detector test and they did not do it?

PADILLA: That`s correct.

GRACE: Mr. Nejame, I -- certainly, you`ve tried to tell your clients, George and Cindy Anthony, the reason the public is having this reaction to them, because they -- many people believe -- have the power to convince Casey Anthony to tell the truth about little Caylee.

MARK NEJAME, ATTORNEY FOR CINDY AND GEORGE ANTHONY: Do you think that there are any people in this earth that want to find Caylee more than they do?

GRACE: No, I do not. Whoa, wait a minute. Wait a minute. So while her daughter was missing, she was picking up dinners for her new boyfriend?

NATE, CASEY`S FORMER ROOMMATE: Yes, ma`am. I think one night she made pasta for everyone. Just you know.

GRACE: Did she ever mention over the pasta dinner that her 2-year-old was gone?

NATE: No, ma`am. She did not mention to us that Caylee was missing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DIMOND: Well, before we go, let`s stop to remember Army Sergeant Timothy Smith, 25 years old, South Lake Tahoe, California, killed, Iraq. Among Smith`s many honors, he was awarded the Purple Heart and the Army Commendation Medal.

He had a big heart, loved snow boarding, four-wheeling and cooking for his wife, Shana. His friends describe him as a young man full of life and energy who could always make you smile. He leaves behind grieving parents, Michael and Patricia, brother Tommy, sister Jackie, and his wife Shana, and his son Riley.

Timothy Smith, American hero.

Well, thanks to all of our guests tonight. And of course, our biggest thank you, always, is to you for being with us and inviting us into your homes. We`ll see you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Good night and stay safe.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../12/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Casey Anthony Arrested for Third Time on Forgery Charges

Aired September 15, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last hour, Casey Anthony turns herself in, and at this hour, is back in isolation behind bars for yet a third time. Mom, Casey, goes before a judge 08:30 tomorrow morning, just one day after declaring herself not guilty on 10 counts of fraud. Translation: The new charges could land mom, Casey Anthony, 67 years behind bars. This after bombshell audiotapes surface, Casey Anthony repeatedly stonewalling investigations just after little Caylee is reported missing. Mom, Casey, tells police lie after lie after lie, even laughing at times.

Tonight, more stunning audiotapes released. Mom, Casey`s, defense demands to see the state`s evidence against their client. When will the search for little Caylee finally resume? Why the slowdown? What do cops know they`re not telling us? Tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony, the mother of the missing 3-year- old Orlando girl, Caylee Anthony, has been arrested for a third time. Anthony turned herself in to Orange County authorities today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you for a certainty that right now, looking at you, I know that everything you`ve told me is a lie, including the fact that, you know, your child was last seen about a month ago and that you don`t know where she is. You know, I am very confident, just by having talked to you in this short period of time, that you know where she is.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do. And here`s the thing. We need to get past that because we can sit here and go back and forth all day long about, I don`t, I do, I don`t, I do. It`s pretty obvious that with everything that you`ve told us, nothing has been true. You know where she is.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anthony`s attorney arrived at the Orange County jail and drove his client to the booking and release center where the deputies were waiting. Casey Anthony was handcuffed and placed under arrest. She was first arrested in mid-July on child neglect charges after she reported her daughter, Caylee, missing. Anthony said she`d last seen Caylee in mid-June but she was too scared to report her missing immediately.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: After about 7:00 o`clock, when I still hadn`t heard anything, I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic. And I went to a neutral place. I didn`t really want to come home. I wasn`t sure what I`d say about not knowing where Caylee was, still hoping that I would get a call or, you know, find out that Caylee was coming back so that I could go get her. And I just was going to my boyfriend Anthony`s house, who lived in Sutton Place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you talk to Anthony about what happened to Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, I did not.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you started thinking that something was wrong, which police agency did you call first, us or the city police? Or who did you call first? Who did you go to for help first to help try to find her?

CASEY ANTHONY: No one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no one. OK. All right. OK. Well, I`m glad we got that straightened out.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Mom, Casey Anthony, is back behind bars again. But this time, will it stick?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony arrested again. The mom of missing toddler Caylee Anthony turned herself in to cops today.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re...

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... worried that if we find that out that people are going to look at you the wrong way?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the reason you didn`t call the police before?

CASEY ANTHONY: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously, I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved, or my parents, which I know would have done the same thing. Just fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Either in a dumpster or now she`s buried somewhere. She`s out there somewhere, and her rotting body is starting to decompose because what you`re telling us -- and here`s the problem. The longer this goes, the worse it`s going to be for everyone. Everyone. The worse it`s going to be for everyone. Right now, everything you`ve told us, we`ve locked you into a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Meanwhile, it was a crazy scene outside of the Anthony home last night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no, no. Come on, let`s go. No! (DELETED)

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One more time, I`m going to -- (DELETED)

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That is the scene outside the Anthony home. Right now, Mom, Casey, Anthony, back behind bars for yet the third time. Will it stick? Straight out to our producer, Natisha Lance, standing by there at the jail. Tell me about the new charges.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, the new charges, Nancy, is one count of petty theft, one count of fraudulent use of an ID, and one count of uttering a forged check. Now, Casey came for her scheduled meeting with her confinement officer this afternoon, and then Jose Baez, her attorney, showed up not too long after that. Then they both exited together, came around to the book and release part of the jail, where Casey surrendered herself into jail, being re-arrested for the third time on those three charges that I just gave to you.

GRACE: So did it end up to be a more smooth event than the other times that she was arrested?

LANCE: It did. Absolutely. And most of the media was over on the other side for her confinement meeting this afternoon. And they left, came around to the other side. And this is a huge complex. So they had to go all the way around. So most of us were stuck in traffic, trying to get back around, didn`t really catch her getting back re-released since jail. Some of the media started (ph) to broke down a little bit early, came around earlier, so that they could get a shot of her going in. But they did it pretty smoothly, and Jose Baez, like he said, he wanted to surrender her with dignity and not have the, quote, unquote, "spectacle," as he called it, as last time.

GRACE: Well, they could avoid that spectacle if they would come clean about where little Caylee is.

We are taking your calls live. Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Why is she in isolation?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, that`s the way she`s been ever since -- you know, she`s been arrested three times. Every time that she`s been to jail, she`s isolated from the other prisoners, just on her conditions. That`s what jail officials have decided. She sleeps alone, eats alone. Any exercise, entertainment purposes that she does in there is all done in solitary confinement.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Jason Oshins, veteran trail lawyer joining us out of New York. Also in New York, trial lawyer Michael Mazzariello. Jason, why is she getting special treatment, being in isolation? That is privileged treatment.

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, it`s for her protection, as well as for the county`s protection. I mean, they don`t want such a high- profile defendant to, you know, befall some evil from anyone else in prison with her. I mean, it`s her own protection, as well as for theirs. It`s sort of prophylactic in how they`re looking at it.

GRACE: You know, bottom line, Michael Mazzariello, she is getting preferential treatment. You know what? Fine. Let`s talk about the charges. What do you make of them, Mazzariello?

MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they`re going to be difficult to defend because, apparently, they have her not only signing the checks, writing her own name and using a fake name, not -- other than her own, but they have her in the bank cashing the check. So she`s got an uphill battle here.

As far as the isolation, I agree with Jason, Nancy. It`s for the jail`s protection and for her protection.

GRACE: You know, she is looking at 67 years behind bars on these charges.

Out to Alexis Weed, researching the Florida sentencing guidelines. Even though she could get a sentence of 67 years behind bars on all these fraud charges -- we`ve got 10 charges, the charges piling up against mom, Casey Anthony -- how much time would she really do, if she were sentenced to the maximum?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE STAFFER: Well, Nancy, that`s really uncertain. While the charges keep stacking up and while we are currently looking -- Casey Anthony is currently looking at these 67 years, she could get as little as probation under these current charges, if she were convicted.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait. If she gets sentenced to the 67 years, how much will she really do?

WEED: That`s up for debate, Nancy. It really depends on whether she were convicted on all of the charges that she`s currently facing. And even then, there are a number of circumstances which I`m sure you can ask the defense attorneys about, which may bode in her favor and give her the ability to serve not quite that many years. The probability of her serving 67 years is highly unlikely.

GRACE: Jason Oshins, the reality is, on theft charges, she`s looking at maybe two or three years.

OSHINS: Tops, Nancy. I mean, assuming that this is the only charge that she`s facing -- first time offense. Throw out the other charges, the other two arrests that she`s charged for, just isolating on this. News media outlets are always, you know, very forward about facing how many years. First time arrest, this is a misdemeanor...

GRACE: These are not misdemeanors.

OSHINS: They`re not misdemeanors?

GRACE: There are felonies in here.

GRACE: Yes, but the amount that`s at, say, $250 to Bank of America...

GRACE: But there are still felonies. The bottom line, Michael Mazzariello...

OSHINS: The courts are going to look at that, Nancy, very lightly. Really. First time offender, very lightly.

GRACE: The court doesn`t have anything to do with it, Michael Mazzariello. The judge can actually sentence her to the full 67 years. That is charge after charge after charge running consecutively, one after the other. But what happens is, you go in the system, and pardon and parole -- the pardon and parole board then determines how long you`ll really do. It`s a grid. Are you a first offender? Is it a violent offense? Bottom line, she could be out in just a couple of years on these.

MAZZARIELLO: She could actually do a split, Nancy, which is what I think will happen, six months jail, five years probation. Because it is a felony offense, I think she is going to do some time just because it`s a high publicity case and she walked into a bank and cashed a check.

GRACE: Out to the lines. To Sandra in South Carolina. Hi, Sandra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening, Nancy. Watch your show all the time.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question and one statement. Put her in general pop, and they know her dad`s a cop or was a cop. They`d get the answers. Now, my question. Many people in this country have been charged, tried and convicted on circumstantial evidence and they are serving time. Why isn`t she?

GRACE: You know -- to Sergeant Scott Haines with Santa Rosa County there in Florida. Sergeant Haines, arrests have been made on less evidence than what we know right now.

SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FL: Absolutely, they have. I think the investigators in this case want to make sure that they get as much evidence as possible before they take this before a judge and a jury. And I think that`s a smart thing to do.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: The horrible thing that happened is -- this is the honest to God`s truth of everything that I`ve said. I do not know where she is. The last person that I saw her with is Zenaida. She`s the last person that I`ve seen my daughter with.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know that`s not the truth. That can`t be the truth because if that were the truth, everything you would`ve told us would`ve been on the money. The addresses you would`ve taken us would`ve been on the money. Everything else would`ve matched. If you had told us the truth, we wouldn`t be here at Universal Studios, at a place that you`ve been fired since 2006, with you trying to explain to us, you know, you got an office and all that stuff.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: You are hearing audiotapes just released -- some came out Friday, more today -- of police interrogating mom, Casey Anthony, about the disappearance of her little girl, 3-year-old Caylee Anthony, now missing 13 long weeks.

Let`s take a listen to more of that interrogation.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re about halfway down that hill, three quarters down that hill, and it`s a pretty big snowball, which means that there`s a lot of stuff going on right now.

And I can tell you just for a certainty that everything you`ve told me so far has been a lie. I can tell you that with certainty. And let me explain why. Since I left you this morning, I`ve gone to every address that you`ve told me. I`ve looked up every name. I`ve talked to every person that you -- you wanted me to talk, or tried to.

I`ve reached out. I`ve talked to your ex-boyfriend. I`ve talked to Amy. I`ve talked to Tony. I came over here. I`ve already talked to all the employees.

And I found out all these names you`re giving me are people that either never worked here or been fired here for a long time ago, OK? So where we are right now is in a position that doesn`t look very good for you.

And this is going to be your -- your escape hatch, so to speak. This is going to be the point where you stop all lies and you stop all the fibs and you tell us exactly what`s going on. I`m just being -- you know, being straight with you.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because obviously, I know and you know that everything you`ve told me is a lie, correct?

CASEY ANTHONY: Not everything that I told you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Pretty much everything that you`ve told me, including where Caylee is right now.

CASEY ANTHONY: That I still -- I don`t know where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, you do. And here`s...

CASEY ANTHONY: I absolutely do not...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen to me. Let...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... know where she is.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Did you hear that? Well, not everything I said was a lie.

To Leonard Padilla, California bounty hunter that first got Casey Anthony out from behind bars before coming off of that bond. When you were in the home after she was first released from behind bars, is that the way she answers everything, just goes round and round and round and none of it makes any sense?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Absolutely. She just -- you know, that`s her story and she sticks to it. And you can`t -- you can`t budge her off of it. I mean, you`ve seen better than two hours of law enforcement interrogation. They did a great job.

GRACE: Well, did you hear that part where they`re actually over at Universal Studios?

PADILLA: That`s correct.

GRACE: And -- and she`s led them all the way over there. They go through security. They go all the way up to where she says she works, and then she comes up with some lame story that, well, the reason she really went there is because she thought maybe security people would have seen Caylee. But whoops, she forgot to mention that while she was there with security.

PADILLA: And she also said that people that she had discussed Caylee being missing was Juliet Lewis (ph) and Jeffrey Hopkins (ph) and those folks. Jeffrey is a friend of the family and Juliet`s is a movie star in "Natural Born Killers," and she just takes a little truth and she builds around it and she runs you around in a circle.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. To Yolly in Florida. Hi, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey. We missed you Friday.

GRACE: Likewise. Likewise. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) when she said that she was at Universal and she had left work to go pick up Caylee, and after all the interrogation they established that she never worked at Universal, so where was she? Where did she work?

GRACE: She did work at Universal several years ago. To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. It`s my understanding all of this time, she hasn`t had a lick of work.

PETRIMOULX: No (INAUDIBLE) And in fact, it seems the way she`s been getting money is stealing from her parents and her friends. Multiple friends said that -- you know, that she stole money from them. I remember reading through those 400 pages, where one of her other friends that she actually called her up out of the blue and borrowed more than $200 from her. So while she hadn`t been working at Universal for over two years, she was finding other ways to get money, it seems.

GRACE: And she lied about working at TGI Friday`s and Sports Authority. I mean, there`s -- oh, at Fusian bar and lounge. She goes on and on.

Everybody, just released, more of those stunning audiotapes, mom, Casey Anthony, being interrogated by police. We are taking your calls live. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can tell you now that everything you`ve told me is a lie. Everything that you`ve told me this morning, from Zanny, from the addresses, from Universal, from all these people that you`ve talked to, including people that you never told me their names and I found them and talked to them.

You know everything that you`ve told me this morning is a lie, every single thing. There`s one of two options right now. You need to tell me the truth, and we can work with that. Or if you continue down this path and continue lying, I can tell you that when this snowball gets to the bottom of the hill, the only person who`s going to get hurt is you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not true. A lot of people around you get hurt.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your parents.

CASEY ANTHONY: A lot of people are hurting right now and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you know what? One person could put a stop to that.

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve been trying.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember the phone call you were telling us about? Is that true?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you actually talk with -- what day was that you talked to her?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember what time of day?

CASEY ANTHONY: Around noon. It was from a private number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did she tell you? What did your daughter say to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: She said, Hi, Mommy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s it?

CASEY ANTHONY: And she started telling me a story, talking to me about her shoes and books.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Back to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. I`ve seen the search warrant, the sworn search warrant by police, and it states that based on the records, that phone call never happened. And then the other night, Cindy Anthony, grandmother Cindy Anthony, told me in person, yes, it had. She`s got the phone records. Why don`t they release them?

PETRIMOULX: You know, that`s not something that they`ve answered to reporters right now. And as you know, the Anthony family is, you know, not answering questions. A lot of what we hear comes through their lawyer. So she`s not really answering many questions.

GRACE: Back to Natisha Lance, standing by at the Orange County jail. Natisha, any movement on George and Cindy Anthony taking a polygraph? Leonard Padilla tells us he was there when they agreed and then reneged on taking a polygraph, the grandparents.

LANCE: No movement on that as of this point yet, Nancy.

GRACE: Everybody, we are playing for you audiotapes just released of the interrogation of Casey Anthony. And we`re taking your calls live. To Angelo in New York. Hi, Angelo.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My question is this. They have her on videotape and they have definite proof of a lot of these charges they have against her, and enough to put her in prison, not in some isolated, cushy jail cell, I mean in real prison.

GRACE: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And as long as they have definite proof, they can put her in prison and convict her. Why don`t they do that, let her sit in prison while they come up with plenty of evidence to charge her with murder, if that`s what is eventually going to happen? So this way, while she`s in there, maybe she will, exposed to real prison life, crack.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: The biggest mistake was not calling you guys right off the bat. I understand all of that. It`s the biggest slap in the face, and I did that to myself. But the worst is I`ve done this to my daughter by allowing her to still be with someone else.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, she`s not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about her?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now, she`d be in the best place. She`s not. She`s with someone that I absolutely do not trust. And I`m absolutely scared that...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you don`t trust, yet was baby-sitting your daughter for a year?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t trust her now.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Dr. Lisa Boesky, psychologist and author. Doctor, what about the fact that on a couple of occasions, she actually laughed during this interview?

LISA BOESKY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, what`s amazing is, most people when they are being questioned by police would be uncomfortable, would be nervous, would even -- hearing these stories, they`re kind of saying, you know, You could be someone that killed your daughter. Being accused of that would make you upset. She is acting like they are talking over bacon and eggs. She is chatting with them, or non-responsive at all, completely abnormal and very scary.

GRACE: Lisa, what does it mean that her lies are so elaborate?

BOESKY: Oh, it`s -- she`s been doing this for years. She`s been telling people she`s been working at Universal for years, I`m sure of it. She is no amateur.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WELLS: Well, if you were in our shoes, what could we do to help you find your child?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I don`t know.

WELLS: What more can we do? Do you have a computer at all?

C. ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

WELLS: Did you ever send -- what`s the nanny`s name?

C. ANTHONY: Zenaida.

WELLS: Did you ever send any e-mails or did she.

C. ANTHONY: Her e-mail account bounced back. I`ve tried twice. I tried.

WELLS: Does she.

C. ANTHONY: Twice this morning.

WELLS: Does she -- have you.

C. ANTHONY: She had e-mail.

WELLS: Even when you all were in good times, does she -- would she send e-mails back and forth?

C. ANTHONY: On occasion. We would talk online. Not usually through e-mail, though.

MELICH: So you stayed at your ex-boyfriend`s that 9th of this month when you`re staying at your other boyfriend`s house, Tony, the rest of the month?

C. ANTHONY: He`d been out of town so I was staying over at another friend`s place while he was gone. I wasn`t staying at his apartment. I was staying with Amy and Ricardo and JP. JP and Ricardo own the house.

MELICH: So why didn`t you tell us you were staying there? We drove right by the house this morning, didn`t we, when we went today? OK? And you`re putting us in this folks` home which is another lie, right? Because Amy never lived there, am I correct?

C. ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

MELICH: OK. Why were you pointing at this old folks` home and saying Zeni lived there at one point when she didn`t?

C. ANTHONY: Because she had gone there before.

MELICH: You mean she went to the old folk`s home?

C. ANTHONY: Yes.

MELICH: But you never dropped your kid off to her at an old folk`s home. You never went into the old folk`s home. You went to the apartment with her.

C. ANTHONY: No.

WELLS: Is the baby`s daddy actually dead?

MELICH: That`s a good question.

WELLS: Would you -- how do you.

C. ANTHONY: I have a copy of the obituary at home.

WELLS: All right. Well, you`ve told us so many untruths right now, I`m confused.

C. ANTHONY: That`s.

WELLS: Would your parents be upset if you had given the baby back to the daddy and for his parents to take care of?

C. ANTHONY: He passed away last year. We hadn`t even talked much before that.

WELLS: So let me ask you this. So is the obituary in your office?

C. ANTHONY: No, I think I have a copy of the obituary at home. There was no office, so there is no anything anywhere. We have gone through that already.

WELLS: Right.

C. ANTHONY: So if I have a copy of it still, it would be on my computer at home. I`m pretty sure I kept that. I don`t think that`s something I would have gotten rid of.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Man, she can tell a whopper. You are hearing more of the just-released audio tapes of police interrogation of mom, Casey Anthony.

Mom, Casey Anthony, in case you haven`t heard, is back behind bars right now. She is facing charges piling up, a total of 10 charges, that could land her 67 years in the penitentiary.

What`s the holdup?

Let`s do, as an Angelo in New York says, take her to trial, get her some hard jail time, see if she cracks. Is that the only way we will find little Caylee?

We are taking your calls live and playing you this audio tapes just released.

Now very quickly to the lawyers. Did you hear that? Did you hear her say, yes, she took my daughter? She`s had her now for over a month. And I tried to e-mail her twice, but, oops, it bounced back.

Jason Oshins, thoughts?

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Listen, she is obviously very good and polished at what she is doing. I think you are right. Law enforcement`s intent is to get these small minor felony offenses against her and perhaps they could get her to crack when she`s in.

GRACE: I don`t need a lawyer to tell me that. Angelo in New York just called that one in.

OSHINS: Exactly.

GRACE: But what`s the likelihood she`s going to crack, Mazzariello?

MICHAEL MAZZARIELLO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, HOST OF "CLOSING ARGUMENTS": I don`t think she`s going to crack. She`s smooth. What I didn`t like about the tapes, Nancy, between the first interview and the second interview, they deemed her to be a suspect at that second interview.

It was an interrogation. She was entitled to an attorney. They should have Mirandized her, they did not. That bothers me.

GRACE: You know what? They did Mirandize her.

MAZZARIELLO: I didn`t hear that.

GRACE: I hear you chiming in, good point?

MAZZARIELLO: Well, that was at the end. At the end of that.

OSHINS: At second interrogation.

MAZZARIELLO: At the end they swore her -- they swore her, Jason.

OSHINS: Exactly.

MAZZARIELLO: . and said, is this true. They didn`t Mirandize her.

GRACE: They Mirandized.

OSHINS: At the end.

MAZZARIELLO: Is it true?

GRACE: . her at the beginning.

MAZZARIELLO: I didn`t hear that. They didn`t swear her until the very end.

GRACE: That`s because I`ve only played a few moments.

MAZZARIELLO: No, Nancy.

GRACE: As a matter of fact.

MAZZARIELLO: We heard the whole thing. We heard both tape.

OSHINS: At the end.

MAZZARIELLO: We heard -- in the entirety.

GRACE: There is a signed Miranda form. I assume she can read. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: So wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?

C. ANTHONY: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself. Because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again. And I don`t want to think about that.

MELICH: We need to stop this lie. Your mother has called me countless times today, OK? And that`s why our phone keeps going off. Countless times. Because your mother knows, your father knows.

Everyone around you knows that you have lied, completely and absolutely, from the get-go. Everyone knows. Why you`re not coming out with it and why you`re not telling us the truth, no one has an answer to.

The only person that has an answer to that is you. And this is what we`re trying to implore upon you. You need to tell us the truth about what happened to Caylee. It`s not as if she is with someone and you didn`t call -- that`s not the truth.

C. ANTHONY: It is the truth.

MELICH: That`s not the truth. You need to tell us.

C. ANTHONY: Absolutely the truth.

MELICH: No, it`s not the truth. We can`t get past that unless you go ahead and tell us the truth.

C. ANTHONY: There is nothing to get past, because that is the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines to Sharon in Wisconsin, hi, Sharon.

SHARON, WISCONSIN RESIDENT: Hi. I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

SHARON: I want to know is -- her mother keeps claiming that they`re getting leads in Mexico on little Caylee.

GRACE: Yes.

SHARON: Why aren`t they over there checking Mexico out? And is there any proof to these phone calls that her mother has been getting?

GRACE: To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there at the Orange County jail, why aren`t they in Mexico following up on those leads? And what about the rest of the question, Natisha?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Cindy Anthony says that these are tips that she has turned over to the Orange County Sheriff`s Department. However, they have not followed up on these tips.

But according to them, they said that they are following up on every tip that is credible.

GRACE: Let`s go out to famed forensic scientist joining us tonight, Lawrence Kobilinsky.

Kobe, thank you for being with us.

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Pleasure.

GRACE: Question. Every day that she stone walls and Caylee`s remains are not found, is another day of decomposition. What does it mean to you?

KOBILINSKY: Well, it means that, as time goes on, as a body decays, evidence is lost. I mean, if the child is deceased and it`s been three months, then valuable evidence is being lost on clothing, on the body, cause of death may never be known.

And the case now hinges on physical evidence that is available, rather than the evidence that is not available.

GRACE: We are taking a look at some of that evidence right now. It is called behavioral evidence.

Take a listen to what mom Casey Anthony says in these newly-released audio tapes of her interrogation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: Our purpose in coming here was to do what? Go where?

C. ANTHONY: I guess there wasn`t a purpose. There wasn`t a purpose whatsoever to come up here.

ALLEN: So we`re wasting time, valuable time, we ought to be spending looking for your daughter.

C. ANTHONY: I`m trying to think of places.

ALLEN: No, I.

C. ANTHONY: . where I know she`s been.

ALLEN: You`re not answering my question. Do you want us to help.

C. ANTHONY: Yes.

ALLEN: . find your daughter?

C. ANTHONY: I do want you to help.

ALLEN: Well, then you need to help me -- a good starting point would be to answer the questions, OK? If I say you were here because and then you just ignore that, like as if I never asked it, and go off in some other direction, does that answer the question?

C. ANTHONY: No.

ALLEN: OK. All right. Let`s go through this again. We`re here because? We got here how? To do what?

C. ANTHONY: Because I lied. Because I brought you up here. And honestly, I was reaching for.

ALLEN: No, stop right there. I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to help us find your daughter.

C. ANTHONY: It`s not going to.

ALLEN: Huh?

C. ANTHONY: It`s not going to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter from California who first helped Casey Anthony get out behind bars, then came off that bond, the sound we just played a few moments ago where police confronted her about pointing to an apartment and being able to say, well, she also lived there. It`s an old folks` home.

And my question is, even if there really is a Zenaida Gonzalez, which there`s not, that she left the baby with, if that were true, why would she tell police the wrong address for the woman?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, HELPED PUT CASEY ANTHONY BACK IN JAIL: Well, the -- reason she took them and told them about Apartment 210 is because she has friends that live at 218. There`s also another thing that`s very interesting. That just came up here in the last week.

There is a William Waters that works at a restaurant down the street from where her boyfriend Anthony lives, and somebody linked Zenaida Gonzalez, who was the one that filled out the application at the Saw Grass Apartments.

GRACE: Saw Gras Apartments.

PADILLA: They linked her through a Laura Rose, trying to make it look like she had communication with Lee and Casey through William Waters. I don`t know exactly what that means, and I don`t know if law enforcement has checked that out. But, obviously, it was a ruse to see...

GRACE: Leonard, you have been in the home. I believe that Cindy and George are getting these tips. Are they?

PADILLA: No. No.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELICH: Zeni has never worked here. How do you explain that?

C. ANTHONY: She has an ID, she has ID with her name on it.

MELICH: Just like you have an ID?

C. ANTHONY: I do have an ID somewhere at my house. Both of my parents have seen it. Both of my parents knows that I work here?

MELICH: Just like you have an office?

C. ANTHONY: I used to have an office.

MELICH: Now. Just like you have an office?

C. ANTHONY: No, I don`t have an office now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELICH: Everything you`ve told us is a lie. You`re looking me in the eyes, you`re looking at -- everything you`ve told us is a lie. Every single thing. And you can`t.

C. ANTHONY: No, it isn`t.

MELICH: Yes. And you can`t keep sitting here and telling us the same thing and getting constantly over and over and over again. We disproving everything that you`re telling us. You`re telling us that you lied to us. You`re telling us you`re giving us misinformation. Everything you`re telling us, OK? This needs to end.

C. ANTHONY: The truthful thing.

MELICH: This needs to end.

C. ANTHONY: . is I have not seen my daughter. The last time that I saw her was on the 9th of June.

MELICH: And what happened to Caylee?

C. ANTHONY: I don`t know.

MELICH: Sure, you do.

C. ANTHONY: I don`t know.

MELICH: Something happened to Caylee. We`re not going to discuss the last time you saw her. I`m guessing something bad happened to her sometime ago and you haven`t seen her. So that part is true, if you say you haven`t seen her because she`s somewhere else right now.

C. ANTHONY: She`s with someone else.

I`m sorry I`ve given you guys the run-around.

WELLS: Well, we`re not trying to be big scary guys.

C. ANTHONY: Oh, I know and.

WELLS: We`re just trying to make sure we get accurate information so we have something to work off of.

C. ANTHONY: I understand that. I just wish I honestly had more things to help with.

The biggest mistake was not calling you guys right off the bat. I understand all of that. It`s the biggest slap in the face and I did that to myself. But the worse is I`ve done this to my daughter, by allowing her to still be with someone else.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Even now, still lying. She tells cops the last time she saw her daughter was the 9th? We all know it was the 16th, at least, if not later, the day after Father`s Day, back in June.

We are taking your calls live, out to Cheryl in Nevada. Hi, Cheryl.

CHERYL, NEVADA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I have a quick question. I wanted to know, are the police still physically looking for this little girl in Florida?

GRACE: Excellent question. Out to Natisha Lance, standing by at the jail. What`s the slow down in the searches? When is it going to resume?

LANCE: Well, Nancy, one of the things that`s slowed down the search has been the water levels. And they`re saying that the -- the areas have not looked the same as when Casey would have presumably went missing. So it`s making it difficult for them to search right now.

And they were a little bit afraid of going over these areas, and if -- her body is out there, possibly, messing up any type of evidence and possibly pushing her body down into the mud a little bit more. So they are still taking in those tips, as they come in. And if there are any credible leads, they are following up on them.

GRACE: Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, that really doesn`t make sense. They`re not searching because it doesn`t look the same because of the water level?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, you know, the other thing is that they have basically said that based on the evidence they have found that, you know, they think she is dead.

So, you know, that`s the worst she could be. She could be anywhere. They have already looked through a lot of the wooded areas that are by her house where, you know, those cell phone records pinged off of. We also have the people from Texas, the Equusearch.

You know they were out there for days, searching through the area. There`s a lot of wooded area around central Florida here and for them to just blindly search, I would say, would seem kind of pointless at this time, unless they had some hard evidence as to where they thought they were.

And as we know, Casey is not saying anything as to that.

GRACE: Yes, a blind search would be fruitless.

Back to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. Leonard, I told you that I believe the Anthonys were getting tipped and you said no, they`re not?

PADILLA: I don`t think they are getting any tips. If they were, they would be forwarding them to law enforcement immediately. When I talked to them when I was originally there, there was a couple of tips that we ourselves followed up and law enforcement had followed them up and then proved to be fruitless.

GRACE: So what`s all this about Mexico and Puerto Rico and Texas?

PADILLA: The thing about is that -- it`s wishing beyond reality by Cindy. It`s a distraction right now to law enforcement. George and Cindy know the truth. Lee has no doubt told Cindy the truth that has been relayed to him by Casey. So it`s a -- it`s a total distraction. They`ve lost a granddaughter. Now they`re hoping against hope.

GRACE: Why so you so convinced they know the truth?

PADILLA: Their attitude took a complete change after the University of Tennessee and the DNA results came out. Their whole attitude changed and went into a defensive posture for Casey.

Prior to that, it had been a situation where they were willing to see if Casey would talk to somebody, do something. After that, it became totally defensive on behalf of Casey. There`s other things.

Let me explain something to you. There`s also an individual that on the evening of the 26th, Casey had several conversations with him. A fellow by the name of Mark Hawkins, a Marine stationed at 29 Palms.

It would be very interesting for him to talk to somebody about those conversations he had with Casey the night before her car was found at 7:00 a.m. at that check-cashing place.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right. And we have no reason to believe cops haven`t spoken to him. Do you?

PADILLA: I don`t know if they have or if they haven`t. But it would be very interesting to see what a Marine would have to say, because if there is anybody that she trusted to tell the truth to about what happened to her daughter, it would be Mark Hawkins.

GRACE: I don`t see her telling anybody.

To Chris in Florida, hi, Chris.

CHRIS, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi, how are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear, what`s your question?

CHRIS: Caylee was supposedly -- is supposedly -- supposed to have been a kidnapped child. Why wasn`t the FBI ever brought in, and if so, with all their resources, couldn`t they cut through all of this baloney?

GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx, it`s my understanding the FBI has been brought in.

PETRIMOULX: That`s right, from the very beginning. The FBI and FBLE were involved in this case. So, you know, we would assume that the vast expansive resources of the FBI have been available since the beginning.

GRACE: Take a listen to more of the interrogation of mom Casey Anthony. These audio tapes just released today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: So, wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?

C. ANTHONY: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself because there`s that chance that I might not see Caylee again. And I don`t want to think about it.

MELICH: So why did you do it?

C. ANTHONY: Honestly, I wanted to come up and try to talk to security. Maybe pass around a picture of Caylee. I legitimately have not seen my daughter in five weeks. I didn`t let anything happen to her, except I trusted her with somebody.

Somebody that has been taking care of her, that had been taking good care of her. Somebody that she was comfortable with, that I was comfortable with.

MELICH: What about -- what about Jeff? You said Jeff worked here until about two months ago?

C. ANTHONY: No, he hasn`t worked here for quite a while.

MELICH: Ten months? How long?

C. ANTHONY: By at least 10 months.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: If the main thing you want to do is find your daughter, and you don`t think lying to us is going to help us find her, why would you do that?

C. ANTHONY: Because I`m scared and I know I`m running out of options. It`s been a month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: That doesn`t even make any sense, Doctor Boesky, why are you lying to us? Because I`m scared? She should be scared and go to police to find her daughter.

LISA BOESKY, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "WHEN TO WORRY": Absolutely. The only time we heard any emotion out of her voice is when she was talking about her mom. And I think with her mom, she`s just afraid that her mom is finally going to be done with her.

Her mom knows all the bad things she`s done and she supported her all this time. I think she`s worried that her mom is going to leave her and she will be alone. She is right about what she said, though, she is running out of options.

GRACE: To Shelly in Canada, hi, Shelly.

SHELLY, CANADIAN CITIZEN: Hi, Nancy. How are you this evening?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

SHELLY: My question is, I don`t understand how she has so much free time to be, you know, going to her lawyer`s office, hanging out for hours. And why isn`t she in the police station, still being interrogated.

GRACE: You know, to Drew Petrimoulx, not only being interrogated, well, once you have a lawyer and invoke your Miranda rights, they can`t -- they cannot question you anymore. But is she doing anything to help find her daughter, Drew?

PETRIMOULX: No, we really don`t know what exactly she is doing. I mean she comes out of her house, she goes into her lawyer`s house, she comes back, gets right in the car and, you know, she`s swept away and right back into her house at home.

So, you know, besides from what we see for those brief seconds, we have no idea what she`s doing.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Major Mark Rosenberg, 32, Miami Lake, Florida, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. A graduate of Florida International University and New Mexico Military Institute.

Remembered for an infectious laugh, loved scuba, playing Wii, dancing, spending time with his big sister Laurie, the two so close they had their weddings one day apart.

Leaves behind grieving parents, Burton and Sheila, brother Neal, widow Julie, toddler boys, Maxwell and Joshua.

Mark Rosenberg, American her hero.

Thanks to our guests but mostly to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night for a New York friend of the show, talented graphics artist, Shannon Vamershik, And special happy birthday to our show`s star, the executive producer, Dean Secoli(ph).

Happy birthday, friend.

Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/15/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Casey Anthony Released From Jail for Third Time

Aired September 16, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. After yet a third arrest, in the last hours, mom, Casey Anthony, walks free, free on a measly $1,250 bond. The judge orders mom, Casey, to stay away from the fraud victim, the so-called friend whose checking account Casey Anthony wiped out, Anthony ordered not to even have contact with the victim. This while meetings between the Anthony family and investigators come to a screeching halt. Why?

The investigation leads detectives to travel out of state. With mom, Casey, facing new charges that could land her 67 years behind bars, she continues to stonewall police. Tonight, more stunning audiotapes surface of police are interrogating her. We hear in her own words her refusal to cooperate, even laughing at times, offering no clues as to her little girl`s whereabouts.

The defense in a corner, lashing out, attacking highly sophisticated forensic results and even suggesting police and lab techs don`t want the truth. And now reports emerge polygraphs have been taken. By whom? And why haven`t the Anthonys stepped up for lie detector tests themselves? Shouldn`t they be the first ones in line? As we wait for formal charges in the disappearance of the little 3-year-old, tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once again, 22-year-old Casey Anthony bonds out at the Orange County jail. With her attorney by her side and two bodyguards, she never utters a word.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why won`t you tell what you know about Caylee?

JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: I think the reason behind it is nothing more than police intimidation. I think we`re all seeing the games that are being played. I`m not intimidated, not in any way, shape or form.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your daughter in a better place?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: No, she`s not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you worried about her?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m absolutely petrified. If she was with her family right now, she`d be in the best place. She`s not. She`s with someone that I absolutely do not trust. And I`m absolutely scared that...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That you don`t trust, yet was baby-sitting your daughter for a year?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t trust her now because of what happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What point did you stop trusting her?

CASEY ANTHONY: The moment that her phone was cut off and I couldn`t get in contact with my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you thought, Man, something ain`t right.

CASEY ANTHONY: Something`s wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And when you started thinking that something was wrong, which police agency did you call first, us or the city police? Or who did you call first? Who did you go to for help first to help try to find her?

CASEY ANTHONY: No one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, no one. OK. All right. OK. Well, I`m glad we got that straightened out.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. For a third time, mom, Casey Anthony, walks free from jail. Ridiculous!

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on count one, 150 on count two, 100 on count three, and no contact with the victim, Amy Huizenga. Do you understand, Ms. Anthony?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony out of jail again. Casey`s lawyer furious by this whole revolving door thing. He says the sheriff`s department is just playing games by arresting Casey over and over again.

BAEZ: If the state of Florida wants to play these games, they want to waste your tax dollars and your resources, you know, I think that`s for everyone to stand up and complain about. They sent their top cops in there. They questioned her for hours without an attorney. They got nothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I purposely misled you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so you purposely misled us. This was all an attempt to help find your daughter, right? That makes sense to you, correct?

CASEY ANTHONY: Again, and in a backwards sort of way, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a backwards sort of way?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m coming back to places that are familiar to me that I know are familiar to her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That makes sense to you? It makes sense to you that, I`m trying to help the police find my daughter by giving them a bunch of bad addresses? That makes sense to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: That`s what I said, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I`m asking you. That makes sense to you? My attempt...

CASEY ANTHONY: That part of it, no, not at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My attempt to help him find my child -- OK, what I`ve done to help him find my child is I`ve given him a whole bunch of addresses to go to that are bad addresses. That`s what I did to help him try to find my child. That makes sense to you?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newsradio. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSRADIO 1150: Well, Casey got her third "Get out of jail free" card today.

GRACE: Ridiculous!

WILLIAMS: Oh, hey, you know, no doubt about it. But she`s allowed to do that. The Kissimmee bail bondsman posting $1,250 to get her out of jail free.

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! And what`s all of this business about the defense attorney talking about how wise the judge is for giving a low bond? The state didn`t ask for any more of a bond.

WILLIAMS: That`s normal bond in a case like this.

GRACE: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: So why is he acting like the prosecution tried to get a huge bond and the judge said no? That`s not what happened.

WILLIAMS: No, of course not. Again, you know, these are normal bond procedures for these sort of charges. I mean, we`re just talking fraudulent check charges, basically, from -- brought by Amy Huizenga.

GRACE: Well, you know...

WILLIAMS: This is -- this is...

GRACE: ... I wonder if you`d say that if it was your checking account that got cleaned out. I wouldn`t be to happy.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, this is just posturing, I think, by Jose Baez because he`s trying to put the best spin on this that he can.

GRACE: Oh, and speaking of the defense and their motions, have you seen this motion suggesting that the crime lab technicians don`t want the truth? Have you seen this?

WILLIAMS: I`ve just -- it just crossed upon my desk just a couple of minutes ago. But I think the crime lab techs want to get to the bottom of this, like the investigators do. And I would think that Jose Baez would want the same thing, justice for his client.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Mom, Casey Anthony, has waltzed back out of the Orange County jail.

To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the Anthony home. What happened?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, they had a larger area blocked off today so that media could not get very close to Casey right until the very end, when she was able to get into the car. Jose Baez went in with those two security guards that were with him last time when Casey was released. She went into the -- they went into the jail. She came out, security guards in front, Jose Baez behind. Casey walked out head held high. She seemed much more confident this time, wearing sunglasses as she was arrested in, her "Find Caylee" T-shirt and rosary beads, and they were off once again...

GRACE: Rosary beads?

LANCE: ... to the house...

GRACE: Are they Catholic?

LANCE: Rosary beads. No. From my information, no, they are not Catholic.

GRACE: She`s got rosary beads?

LANCE: Yes. From what I`m hearing, they were given to the family by some close friends to help them pray in the search for Caylee.

GRACE: OK. She came out wearing dark sunglasses with her head held high? Did I just hear that?

LANCE: Yes, that`s correct.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight, Raymond Giudice out of Atlanta, veteran trial lawyer Joe Episcopo out of Tampa, Florida. Dark sunglasses, head held high? What is this, like the paparazzi is chasing her? What about it, Episcopo?

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, that`s what you got to do. You got to keep that posture. Let`s face it, she has not told anybody what she did with this child, and that`s the reason they`re having difficulty bringing the charges. They don`t want to bring charges and have her beat the case, like Blake did out in California because there was no smoking gun. She`s not told anybody. You know how hard that is for a human being to not tell anyone?

GRACE: Very.

EPISCOPO: And that`s the reason why they can`t solve this case.

GRACE: You know, Ray Giudice, even Susan Smith -- remember her?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I sure do.

GRACE: Even Susan Smith, who killed all her children, managed to squeeze out a couple of tears for the public.

GIUDICE: Yes. Look, there`s been no question in the release of all her taped conversations while she was in custody, she`s pretty cold- hearted. She`s pretty emotionless and she`s totally defensive in her conversations. That`s explicit in all these tape recordings and interviews that keep coming out. She`s a strange bird. I think the other folks that have testified -- or commented on your show psychologically have proven that to us.

GRACE: Well, "She`s a strange bird" ain`t going to cut it at trial.

GIUDICE: I understand that.

GRACE: Although in this case, I do agree with you.

Everyone, we`re taking your calls live. The defense in a corner, filing motions claiming they want unbiased people working on the case in an unbiased lab. Do they think the crime lab technicians are going to get a raise or a promotion based on the outcome of this case? No, they`re not.

Out to the lines. To Jody in Connecticut. Hi, Jody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A question and a quick comment.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The question is, were the backpacks ever found? I remember the grandfather saying the last time he saw Casey and Caylee, they left with backpacks. And I know that one of the shows, backpacks were found by the Orlando airport.

GRACE: Yes. Yes. A backpack was found. I`m going to get that description for you. It didn`t match the description of little Caylee`s backpack. But what was your comment, Jody?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The comment -- not that I want to compare these two, but if you went to compare Natalee Holloway`s mother, Beth Twitty, and Casey, you can clearly see how Beth Twitty went to the ends of the earth to try to find her daughter and Casey...

GRACE: You know what? You`re absolutely right. And to this day, Beth Twitty is still working that case.

You know, let`s talk about the backpack. Out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, I recall a backpack was discovered, but it did not match the description of Caylee`s backpack.

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s correct. The description of Caylee`s backpack was that it had a monkey design on it. It had monkeys on it. And this was deemed not to be not the same and potentially not involved in the case.

GRACE: Let`s go out to famed forensic scientist, Doctor Lawrence Kobilinsky. Koby (ph), this motion that was filed, where -- and I`m quoting -- they want "unambiguous or least biased analysis, which is not the primary concern of law enforcement or prosecution." They are attacking the government crime lab, as if the biology and chemistry majors and doctors over there at the crime lab want to frame Casey Anthony. As a scientist yourself, how do you respond to that?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, first of all, attorneys obviously have to be zealous advocates, but forensic scientists have to be neutral and unbiased and they shouldn`t be concerned with guilt or innocence.

GRACE: This says to me the defense is on the run.

KOBILINSKY: I think they need to develop the facts and let the juries make decisions about what happens to Casey or not.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: My mom flat out told me yesterday she will never be able to forgive me, and I even told her I`m never going to be able to forgive myself. Every day, I`ve been beating myself up for this, every single day...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... not knowing where to go, what to do, running in circles literally because it`s all I can do at this point.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: The stuff that she says, the thing that she said -- she`s been right about everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What kind of things did she say?

CASEY ANTHONY: She told me that I took advantage of her, and she`s right because...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how?

CASEY ANTHONY: ... for a very long time...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How did you take advantage of her?

CASEY ANTHONY: By using credit cards. When I had my own money, I still used some of her money. I went and bought material things for nothing...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... whether it was things for myself, going out to eat...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... spend a little bit of time with friends or went and took Caylee shopping. For whatever reason, I was extremely selfish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: I was extremely selfish for a few years, quite a few years.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And not just mooching off her mom and dad, now new charges of fraud could land mom, Casey Anthony, 67 years behind bars, allegedly wiping out a so-called checking account, a friend that was kind enough to loan mom, Casey Anthony, her car.

We are taking your calls live. To Wanda in Alabama. Hi, Wanda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I was wanting to find out -- I know that this young lady has been arrested on three occasions.

GRACE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. That is a waste of taxpayers` dollars.

GRACE: True.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What other alternatives will the investigators have in trying to find any tips leading to this young lady? Because obviously, her parents are protecting her to no end.

GRACE: You know, a lot of people, Wanda in Alabama, believe that these re-arrests are part of a strategy by the state to get her behind bars, to get her to break her silence. In fact, the defense has now attacked the state because of this last arrest, claiming that they are playing games, that they are part of a big conspiracy against Casey Anthony.

Take a look. "I think the reason behind it is nothing more than intimidation. Games are being played."

Ray Giudice and Joe Episcopo, the prosecutor didn`t steal the checks. The prosecutor didn`t march into Target and write checks or write checks to the bank to -- to themselves, all right? Nobody`s playing games. These are legitimate charges with videotape and forged documents to back them up, Raymond Giudice.

GIUDICE: Yes, that`s right. I disagree with attorney Baez on this. This is a normal processing. She got picked up. She turned herself in. She made her bond. She did 8, 12, 15 hours, whatever it is. That would be the case for anybody else that forged some checks or stole a credit card.

GRACE: What about it, Episcopo?

EPISCOPO: Look, the state, I believe, has enough evidence to go ahead and try a manslaughter case. I really do think they have that. And that`s what they should do. That`s basically where this is going to end up. If they try a murder charge, it might be difficult, but I think they can convict her of manslaughter. That`s a 15-year offense. She`s not going to get 67 years on the check. She only scores about three years on a score sheet. So that`s not the way to go.

And you know, you can`t use the bond process to get people to talk. That`s an abuse. That`s a constitutional right to bond. You can`t use that to waterboard information out of them.

GRACE: Well, there`s no -- thank you. Thank you. But there`s no suggestion that the bond process, as you call it, is being used as some tactic. The bottom line is...

EPISCOPO: That`s what you want to do! You want to use the bond process to put her in jail to force her to talk.

GRACE: News flash!

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: News flash! I`m sitting in a studio in Manhattan. I`m not using anything to keep anybody in jail.

EPISCOPO: You would like to see that. That`s what you want.

GRACE: No, what I would like to see is a result in this case. I would like to find out, Where is Caylee? Is she dead or alive? And if you disagree with me, that`s your problem.

EPISCOPO: No, what you have to do then...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Out to the lines. Lana in Florida. Hi, Lana.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. You are a lady tiger with lipstick, honey. You go, girl!

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you.

GRACE: Thank you, I think! Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, why didn`t Cindy and George Anthony -- I know they`re more worried about finding Caylee, but why didn`t they go through with filing their charges when Casey stole their credit cards and took money out of their bank account and took the grandparents` money out of their bank account? I mean, you know, Cindy could put pressure on Casey by filing charges, getting her to pay for those crimes. I mean, it`s tough love. You`ve got to do it, even if it`s your kids.

GRACE: To bounty hunter from Sacramento Leonard Padilla, joining us tonight. Remember, he first put up the bond, a whopper, a $500,000 bond amount to get her out of jail. He came off that bond when he became convinced that she was not cooperating with police and that little Caylee may be deceased.

You were in the home. You saw them interacting. Why aren`t George and Cindy one, filing any kind of charges when she stole from them and out of their own grandparents` retirement home fund? And two, is it true what you -- what you told us, that they are not -- they are refusing to take polygraphs?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: As far as I know, they`re still refusing to take polygraphs, even as of today. And as far as defending their daughter, I think, mentally, they`re at a stage where they`ve lost a granddaughter, they don`t want to lose a daughter. And I think they`ve -- they`ve thrown -- they`ve drawn that line and they`re not going to retreat from it. They`re going to defend their daughter, no matter what.

GRACE: Until the bitter end.

Everybody, new and disturbing audiotapes have been released of the interrogation of Casey Anthony. They just keep pouring out. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You pointed at the third floor window and you said, Well, that`s whatshername`s bedroom, and Zanny`s bedroom is right below -- is on the other side. That`s what you told me. So that was a lie?

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that was going to help find her now, telling - - lying about -- lying about that bedroom and where Zanny`s bedroom`s was. That was going to help find her how?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s not helping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then why would you do it? Because we are -- I mean, that`s what we`re here for, right, finding her?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know what else to do anymore! If I knew where she was, if something had happened...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, let me ask you this...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... I would have admitted that a long time ago!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think -- do you think -- do you believe thinking up more lies to tell us will help us?

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s get past how we got to Universal Studios. Let`s get past why you talked to your daughter yesterday on the phone, having no idea where she`s at and haven`t seen her -- having not seen her for five weeks and you didn`t call anybody. Did you just think that one day, she`s just going to show up at your house?

CASEY ANTHONY: No. I sat around yesterday, trying to figure out what to do. I`m glad that I ended up seeing my mom, that all of that stuff happened, happened for a reason because (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re glad you saw your mom. Let me ask you this. You could`ve saw your mom five weeks ago, said, Mom, I don`t know where -- you could have called your mom five weeks ago.

CASEY ANTHONY: I was scared.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What does that mean?

CASEY ANTHONY: I saw my mom`s reaction right off the bat, and it would`ve been the same from the get-go.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We even pulled the surveillance video from the apartment complex. And they have to keep this by law for several days, OK? And we`re not seeing you over there. We`re not seeing you there at all that day. You think that we`re stupid and we`re not going to do all this stuff?

CASEY ANTHONY: I know you`re not stupid.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we`re not seeing you there. So now, if you`re not there and you`re not being seen there and somebody`s already saying that you`re not there, then everything else you told us is a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: More stunning audiotapes have been released of the interrogation by police of mom, Casey Anthony. This as she walks free from jail yet a third time, obviously not helping in the search for little Caylee.

Back out to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. It`s my understanding police detectives are traveling to California to speak to you in person about what you know about the case. Why?

PADILLA: Well, I believe that Melich (ph) and the FBI agent, Nick Savage (ph), are coming out here basically to go over what we observed, the story she told us about what she had in her mind as far as what happened at Jay Blanchard Park, rather than at the department...

GRACE: What story?

PADILLA: Well, she told myself -- she told her mother and her mother related to me, and then she herself told me, and then she also told Rob Dick, that Zenaida and her sister, Samantha, had taken little Caylee away from her at Jay Blanchard Park, got in the car and drove off, and then Zenaida gave her a list of things to tell law enforcement for the next 30 days. I think they want to get...

GRACE: A list? Written list?

PADILLA: A written list of things to tell the cops, yes.

GRACE: And you know, it`s amazing, Leonard Padilla, that there is a Zenaida Gonzales with a sister named Samantha. So now we`ve got a co- conspirator in the kidnap of little Caylee, Samantha Gonzalez?

PADILLA: Well, she just -- she will start with one slight thing. And I think she came upon the name Zenaida Gonzalez while she was at the Sawgrass Apartments because there was a lady that went there on the 17th and requested some information on an apartment. And that`s how she got involved.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can leave, but you can`t sit here and take the consequences, can you?

(CROSSTALK)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: I can face whatever comes my way. I can face (EXPLETIVE DELETED) just like you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter killed.

CINDY ANTHONY: I spend out here many nights.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know your daughter did it.

CINDY ANTHONY: When Caylee comes home, you will go to hell.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter to killed her, you know it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your daughter`s going to go hell and rot.

CINDY ANTHONY: You don`t know anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the bodyguard says that Casey.

(CROSSTALK)

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m right here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I`m right here (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

ALLEN: So wait a minute. So you`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom will never forgive me. I`m never going to forgive myself, because there is that chance that I might not see Caylee again and I don`t want to think about that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: You know, never do we hear any reports of her trying to help find little Caylee.

You are hearing stunning audio tapes just released of mom Casey Anthony`s interrogation by police.

We are taking your calls live.

Straight out to Natisha Lance standing by there at the Anthony home. I understand police are there? Why?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Police are here, Nancy, just simply trying to control the protesters who are in the area. And actually, a few minutes ago, I was handed this motion for reconsideration of denial and temporary injunction.

There was an injunction that was requested to have protesters move further away from the Anthony home, and in addition to trying to control the hours of which they could be here. That was denied.

But now there is this reconsideration. Police are out here trying to control the area, making sure that nobody gets hurt and making sure that the protesters stay pretty calm.

GRACE: Which lawyer is filing the motions?

LANCE: That would be Karen Wonsettler(ph). And she is with the law firm of Karen Wonsettler.

GRACE: You` are seeing a live shot now outside the home. Police back on the scene.

I want to go to John Van Achen, bail bondsman, who`s standing by also there at the home.

Mr. Van Achen, thank you for being with us. You know, today, Casey posted bond again and what I don`t understand is why her prior bonds have not been revoked, because she has been re-arrested.

Isn`t that a violation of bond?

Hold on. I`m going to come back -- OK, go ahead. Isn`t that a violation of the bond?

JOHN VAN ACHEN, BAIL BONDSMAN, ON LOCATION AT TOT MOM HOME: Well, it is, Nancy, if -- if it -- if the incident happened after she was arrested the first time.

There`s an administrative order here that says that if somebody is out on bond, then they get arrested again, they will go before the judge under a no-bond on the new charges.

Generally, what happens -- and that`s what happened to her last night -- she was given a no bond. She went before the judge are today, and the judge set the bonds that would typically off the bond schedule that we have here in Orange County.

But because those incidents happened prior to when she got arrested for the child neglect, then that didn`t count as far as the other bond being revoked. And it`s up to the bondsmen now. The bondsmen could have come off for bond and done what`s called an endorsed bond.

But they didn`t, they chose to.

GRACE: Mr. Von Achen, I.

VON ACHEN: . pledge this other bond.

GRACE: From what I understand you`re saying is she would have to have committed the forgeries and the bad checks after the initial arrest?

VAN ACHEN: And in order for her bond.

GRACE: To be revoked.

VAN ACHEN: The first bond to be revoked.

GRACE: Got it. Got it.

With me is John Van Achen, bail bondsman, standing there outside the Anthony home.

Mr. Van Achen, another question. Why is it that bail bonds people are coming forward now to get her out, when they wouldn`t come forward on that -- in the original $500,000 bond?

VAN ACHEN: Well, I think there`s two things. First, I think somebody else is behind the bond. I know that I have seen the bonds, and the Anthonys are the indemniters on the bond.

GRACE: Right.

VAN ACHEN: And they have -- they had no -- equity in their house. So I think there`s an outside source here. But the second thing is that she`s -- she`s very visible. And if she runs, she -- where is she going to go?

GRACE: Good point. Good point. So you do not consider her a flight risk.

Everybody, police have just shown up outside the Anthony home. It`s become quite the scene. There are protesters all over the place.

Just released, more audio tapes of police interrogation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: I want you to tell me, OK, this is a -- I mean, is it that there is something other thing more important in your life right now?

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

ALLEN: Maybe that -- no, but you were just weren`t kind of -- you just weren`t really focused on what you were saying when you told us? So - - yet kind of just accidentally told us you had an office here and we needed to be here because we might find something that would help or did you lie to us purposely? Or did you purposely mislead us? Which of those two was it?

CASEY ANTHONY: I purposely misled you.

ALLEN: OK. So you purposely misled us. This was all an attempt to help us find your daughter, right?

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

ALLEN: That makes sense to you, correct?

CASEY ANTHONY: Again, in a backwards sort of way, yes.

ALLEN: In a backwards sort of way?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m coming back to places that are familiar to me that I know are familiar to her.

ALLEN: When the police do get involved, OK, when your parents involve the police in an attempt to locate your child because they`re worried, the first thing you do, OK, is you lie to the detective whose job it is to try to find your daughter and get her back into safe hands, OK?

You give them all kinds of bad addresses to look at, right? OK? So far I`m on track, correct?

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

ALLEN: OK. Then you bring us out to Universal, where you say you worked in an office to try to help find stuff that would help us find your daughter. And we`re on track so far, OK? And we get here, we walk up and down the hall to where you tell us, you don`t even work here. You don`t have an office here, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

ALLEN: So far what I have said is true, correct?

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

MELICH: We even pulled surveillance video from the apartment complex and they have to keep this by law for several days, OK? And we`re not seeing you over there. We`re not seeing you there at all that day.

Do you think that we`re stupid? And we`re not going to do all this stuff?

CASEY ANTHONY: I know you`re not stupid.

MELICH: OK? We`re not seeing you there. So no, if you`re not there and you`re not being seen there and somebody is already saying that you`re not there and everything else you told us is a lie.

WELLS: I can tell you for a certainty that right now, looking at you, I know that everything that you told me is a lie, including the fact that, you know, your child was last seen about a month ago, and that you don`t know where she is.

See, I am very confident, just by having talked to you this short period of time that you know where she is.

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t.

WELLS: You do. And here`s the thing. We need to get past that, because we can sit here and go back and forth all day long about I don`t, I do, I don`t, I do. It`s pretty obvious that everything you`ve told us, nothing has been true. You know where she is.

Now my question to you is this. We need to find Caylee. I understand that right now Caylee may not be in very good shape. You understand what I`m saying? She may not be the way we have already -- the way your family last remembers her.

We need to find out from you where Caylee is. This right now is just -- this has gone so far downhill and this has become such a mess that we need to end it. It`s very simple. We just need to end it.

CASEY ANTHONY: I agree with you. I have no clue where she is.

WELLS: Sure you do.

CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew any sense of where she was, this wouldn`t have happened at all.

ALLEN: How old is she?

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s almost three.

ALLEN: She`s almost three. What do you think she`s just going to take a cab here? I mean.

CASEY ANTHONY: I know she`s not.

ALLEN: How did you think she`s going to get here?

CASEY ANTHONY: Because she`s with someone else. If I could find her, if I could.

ALLEN: She`s with someone else.

CASEY ANTHONY: . track her down.

ALLEN: Wait. She`s with.

CASEY ANTHONY: This wouldn`t be happening.

ALLEN: OK, hold on a second. Let`s put this together where it makes sense, OK? She is with someone else who`s hid her from you for five weeks.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

ALLEN: Who let her call you on the phone yesterday, but then hung up. But you brought us here today because she might be here.

CASEY ANTHONY: She could be anywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Dr. Janet Taylor, psychiatrist -- Doctor., when you`re being confronted with the fact that your daughter could be decomposing and you just sit there and say, uh-huh, uh-huh. Uh-huh, what is that?

DR. JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, you know, there are a couple of things that really jump out. One is the complete lack of emotion. And this is right after she has reported Caylee missing. There is no emotion, no remorse.

And the other thing is, she says uh-huh, but she is confronted and caught in these lies. She never says I`m sorry, which indicates she has no remorse at all, and just such little capacity for how she has hurt people. And it`s extremely selfish and an immature response.

GRACE: You know, I just had twins. And when I think of one of them being missing, I can`t even think about it.

TAYLOR: Right now, she is more a movie star than a mournful mom. And you know, with the sunglasses and the t-shirt tied up, it just -- somewhere in her life, she has been hurt so badly that she just does not have the capacity to care for anyone else.

GRACE: Are you making an excuse for her? Are you saying she was hurt?

TAYLOR: Absolutely not an excuse. But people like Casey just aren`t born necessarily. They -- you know, certainly, they evolve and things have happened to them.

GRACE: I don`t know, Doctor.

TAYLOR: Traumatic (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: I was with you until you got to that hurt thing. I think some people are just plain mean and selfish.

We`ll take it up after the break.

Everybody, AMBER Alert. There is a search right now for three siblings, age 3, 4 and 6, missing, West Valley City, Utah. Xiomara, Pablo and Alicia Hernandez, last seen August 31 with their dad. He does not have custody. He vanishes with the children.

Israel Hernandez believed to be on the run with the kids, possibly to Mexico. Police on the lookout for a black Escalade or a maroon Chevrolet Corsica.

Please take a look. If you have info, call West Valley Police, 801- 840-4000.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELICH: What`s the reason you didn`t call the police before? Since right now we`re here because your grandparents or your parents asked you about the child, and they were concerned and didn`t get an answer as to where the child was, they called the sheriff`s office.

Why didn`t you call prior to today?

CASEY ANTHONY: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which, obviously, I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her. And if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved or my parents, which I know was dumb to think that - - just fear of the unknown.

Fear of the potential Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.

WELLS: It`s important that you tell me. I mean maybe there`s something in what she said that can help us figure out where she is. What did she say?

CASEY ANTHONY: I tried to ask her where she was, and she just kept talking about the books that she`s been reading. We have videos of her reading the story. She was telling me the story.

ALLEN: So she seemed happy.

(CROSSTALK)

CASEY ANTHONY: Fine.

ALLEN: Seemed fine, seemed happy.

CASEY ANTHONY: She seemed perfectly fine. There was nothing in the background.

ALLEN: Telling you about a book, telling you she -- no sign of any type of stress at all?

CASEY ANTHONY: Not at all.

ALLEN: Great. That`s wonderful. Now let me ask you a question. Your daughter hasn`t seen you in over a month, and she`s not.

CASEY ANTHONY: She was excited. She was excited to talk to me. But at the same time, it`s crazy that she didn`t get upset when she talked to me which.

ALLEN: Yes.

CASEY ANTHONY: . had it been my mom, I know it would have been totally different.

ALLEN: Is that another thing that makes sense to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: She never gets upset when she talks to me, whether I haven`t seen her for an entire day or I had to work late at night, I didn`t see her almost an entire day until the next morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: If you had to work late at night? You don`t have a job. Why do you -- you know.

To Brian Reich, deputy chief, Bergen County Sheriff`s Office, have you seen this motion -- I don`t know if you have or not -- the defense motion to preserve forensic evidence and for the court to consider additional testing? Where it, basically, the defense attacks the state and even the crime lab?

Like the chemistry majors, doctors and masters over at the state crime lab want to frame Casey Anthony? Have you seen that? Have you heard about it?

BRIAN REICH, DEPUTY CHIEF, BERGEN COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: I have heard about it and I think it`s pretty absurd to think that the -- you know, the state is trying to frame her.

Nobody gets a bonus at the end of the day of trying to prosecute somebody and get a conviction for a crime they didn`t commit. Those people are dedicated to justice and I think they`re just reaching to try to put some spin on this case.

GRACE: Well, Brian, another issue.

With me is Brian Reich, deputy chief, Bergen County Sheriff`s Office. Another thing is the defense is now whining that they have not gotten discovery. Maybe I`ve been wrong all these years of practicing the law, but doesn`t there have to be an indictment before the discovery process kicks in?

Investigators are under no duty to say, come on over to our office and take a look at all our files.

REICH: Yes, I mean, that`s correct. In fact, to be quite honest, I`m surprised that, as much information has been released -- has been and I think that the defense has benefited from that.

And certainly, once they`re charged, once she is formally indicted, they`re entitled to all of the information, all of the notes and all that is discoverable. And they want to control the information. And that`s a very important part of any investigation, controlling the info that goes out.

GRACE: Out to the lines, to Donna in New Jersey. Hi, Donna.

DONNA, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

DONNA: I would like to know, with them trying to get this Web site up to get money for the defense, and the ridiculous statements that the defense attorney is making, who is paying for his representation?

GRACE: Who is paying for the defense attorney`s representation?

DONNA: Yes.

GRACE: Natisha, who is?

LANCE: That`s a really good question, Nancy, and one that nobody seems to be able to answer. There have been those rumors, however, about video possibly being sold, and Jose Baez benefiting from that and somehow brining that into the defense.

GRACE: Nikki Pierce of WDBO, any idea who`s footing the bill for this defense time?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: It has never been made clear whether he took the case pro bono, or he`s being paid. No one really knows how he`s been paid.

GRACE: Well, Mark Williams of WNDB, let`s go through the process of elimination. Does Casey Anthony have a job? No.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: No.

GRACE: Are the parents footing the bill? That`s the only possible alternative.

WILLIAMS: They don`t have any money. When it comes right down to it, from what we understand, they refinanced their house back in 2005. And, obviously, they couldn`t come up with the $500,000 bond or security when she was first arrested.

So who knows? Remember, there`s that Web site that has yet to go live.

GRACE: Right.

WILLIAMS: . asking for donations for her defense fund.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Raymond Giudice, trial lawyer out of Atlanta, Joe Episcopo, defense attorney out of Tampa, Florida.

Ray Giudice, this is premature for the defense to start jumping up and down and screaming. They haven`t gotten discovery.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well.

GRACE: Discovery means when the state gives you part of their evidence.

GIUDICE: You`re technically, absolutely, right. You don`t get discovery until the indictment is filed. You can also get discovery by asking for and conducting a preliminary hearing.

Everything else is being released. But he is trying to set the stage for when these crime lab reports come in or try to come into evidence at trial, he can say, judge, a year ago, I asked for these to be independently evaluated and observed. That was denied by the state. Don`t let these test results in.

I think that will fail, but that`s the foundation he`s laying.

GRACE: OK. At least you`re honest, that there`s not a legitimate precedent for that to work in court. But you`re right. You`re right. Raymond, he is laying that foundation.

But Joe Episcopo, it`s a two-edge sword, double up sword, because if he got -- be careful what you ask for because you might get it. If he got an independent scientist to watch the testing, then they couldn`t claim in court the testing was contaminated or a sloppy condition. There was mistesting.

They completely lose all those arguments.

JOE EPISCOPO, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. You don`t want to do that.

You know there was a scandal in the FBI lab in the mid `90s, involving certain agents and blood and hair. Cases were reversed and agents resigned.

GRACE: When was that?

EPISCOPO: So he`s - FBI in Washington, D.C.

GRACE: When? When?

EPISCOPO: In the mid `90s.

GRACE: So.

EPISCOPO: The mid `90s. Yes. It was a huge lab scandal.

GRACE: Over 10 years ago?

EPISCOPO: They haven`t really recovered from it.

GRACE: That`s the last time you know the FBI made a mistake?

EPISCOPO: I`m just telling you that maybe that`s where he got the idea.

GRACE: Thanks.

EPISCOPO: By the way, his legal fee is the publicity he`s getting. He was an unknown lawyer from Kissimmee, Florida. Now everybody knows him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: To famed forensic scientist, Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky -- Kobe, bottom line, what do you make of this motion the defense has filed attacking the crime lab techs, the police, investigators, why?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, if the state is to mount a homicide case without any body, they`re going to have to base on it physical evidence. And therefore, testing is critical for reliable and accurate results.

And the defense is entitled to independent testing. And I do understand why the defense is asking for this.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Rachel in Florida. Hi, Rachel.

RACHEL, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question?

RACHEL: Well, I have a question then I wanted to say a couple of things after.

GRACE: Quickly.

RACHEL: My question is, who is paying for her bodyguard for this entourage?

GRACE: OK. To Nikki Pierce, WDBO, who is paying all those VP body guards? I think they`re the ones that Britney Spears fired.

PIERCE: Well, we did speak to one of them. We managed to speak to one of them several weeks ago outside of Jose Baez`s office. And he said that he was paid by the Anthonys.

Now this new prop, the two gentlemen that walked her out of jail both times, we`re not familiar with them. But I`m assuming it is coming from the Anthonys.

GRACE: To Janet in Florida, hi, dear, what`s your question?

JANET, FLORIDA RESIDENT: Yes, my question is, Casey had stated that she was petrified of her mother and her mother would never forgive her. Don`t you think this is a clue that she knows where Caylee is and she`s afraid because of her mother?

GRACE: What about it, Dr. Taylor?

TAYLOR: Certainly it could indicate that she does have a clue. So, clearly, she`s the last one to see her. But I think it also highlights the difficult relationships between she and her mother and that`s something that we really need to look at.

GRACE: Doctor, you`re absolutely correct. Thank you for being with us, by the way.

Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Michael Lilly, 23, Boise, Idaho, killed, Iraq, on a second tour. He put army and country first. Loved football, guitar, golf, boxing, cookies.

Dreamed of opening a restaurant. Favorite music, heavy metal. Leaves behind parents, two brothers, and one sister, widow Lucida.

Michael Lilly, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And good wishes to our star, Alexis, a.k.a. Superstar, heading back to Northwestern to finish her masters.

Walk tall and hurry back, friend.

Everyone, we`ll see you tomorrow night, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/16/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Bounty Hunter Thinks Casey Anthony had an Accomplice

Aired September 17, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Mom, Casey, walks free out of jail after a third arrest. And a stunning theory emerges. Did mom, Casey Anthony, a person of interest in Caylee`s disappearance, have an accomplice? Sources say yes.

And tonight, more bombshell audiotapes released of mom, Casey`s, interrogation by police just after little Caylee reported missing -- lie after lie, her refusal to cooperate, even laughing at times, offering no clues to her own little girl`s whereabouts. We hear her lies about the nanny, about the cell phone, about her so-called search for Caylee.

And tonight: Did mom, Casey, have romances with more than two cops? How will that compromise the case? The investigation leads detectives out of state, this as grandmother, Cindy Anthony, goes on Spanish TV, insisting Caylee is alive and likely in Texas, Puerto Rico or in Mexico. Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking developments in the case of missing 3- year-old Florida toddler Caylee Anthony. A bounty hunter who initially helped get tot mom, Casey Anthony, out of jail says he has a theory that Casey Anthony needed help in disposing of her daughter`s body. Leonard Padilla believes that Casey Anthony had an accomplice and needed someone to confide in and help her. Anthony remains free on bond as police continue to release more evidence, including the audio of two interviews between police and Casey Anthony stretching over 90 minutes.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything you`ve told us is a lie. You`re looking me in the eyes. You`re looking at -- everything you`ve told us is a lie, every single thing. And you can`t...

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Not everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. And you can`t keep sitting here and telling us the same thing and getting constantly -- over and over and over again, we`re disproving everything that you`re telling us. You`re telling us that you lied to us. You`re telling us you`re giving us misinformation. Everything you`re telling us. OK? This needs to end.

CASEY ANTHONY: The truthful thing...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This needs to end.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... is I have not seen my daughter. The last time that I saw her was on the 9th of June.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what happened to Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure, you do. You need...

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Listen, something happened to Caylee. We`re not going to discuss where the last time you saw her -- I`m guessing something bad happened to her some time ago, and you haven`t seen her. So that part is true, if you say you haven`t seen her, because she`s somewhere else right now.

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s with someone else.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: That`s right. We are taking it apart, line by line. Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: More new details emerge in the case of missing 3- year-old Caylee Anthony. Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla, who had previously assisted in getting Casey Anthony out of jail, now has a new theory and believes that an accomplice was possibly helping tot mom, Casey Anthony. Padilla says that it is his belief that Anthony need someone to confide in and tell what really happened and that this person someone helped Anthony cover up what happened to little Caylee Marie.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to stop this lie. Your mother has called me countless times today, OK? And that`s why my phone keeps going off -- countless times because your mother knows. Your father knows. Everyone around you knows that you have lied completely and absolutely from the get- go. Everyone knows. Why you`re not coming out with it and why you`re not telling us the truth, no one has an answer to. The only person that has an answer to that is you. And this is what we`re trying to implore upon you. You need to tell us the truth about what happened to Caylee. It`s not that she`s with someone and you didn`t call...

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not the truth.

CASEY ANTHONY: It is the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not the truth. You need to tell...

CASEY ANTHONY: Absolutely the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not the truth. We can`t get past that unless you go ahead and tell us the truth.

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s nothing to get past because that is the truth.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Drew, what`s the latest?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, the latest, as you`ve been mentioning, is that -- this new theory coming from someone very close to the investigation, someone who actually bonded Casey out of jail. Bounty hunter Leonard Padilla says that she would have needed an accomplice to dispose of little Caylee`s body.

We`ve also seen a quote from her friend, Christina, that said that Casey is the type of person that would be able to connive a friend into helping her out. There`s also been theories that Casey dumped the body in one of our many alligator-infested lakes, specifically Lake Jessup (ph). Now, investigators say they haven`t searched there as of yet, but this is one of our most alligator-infested lakes. And I can tell you, just driving over it, you see many alligators swimming out there every time you drive by.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Stunning theory develops. Did Casey Anthony have help, an accomplice, in the disappearance of little Caylee?

Out to the lines. Susan in California. Hi, Susan.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your program.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that there`s been discussion about whether or not Casey Anthony should have a lie detector test and what that might reveal. But I was wondering if she couldn`t fool a lie detector test because she lies with such facility.

GRACE: You know, that`s an excellent question. And tonight we have with us Jack Trimarco. He is a former FBI polygrapher, the chief of the LA bureau and polygraph for the FBI. Jack, thank you for being with us again. Can you beat a polygraph?

JACK TRIMARCO, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: The short answer to that, Nancy, is no. People can be great liars externally, but you have to remember what a polygraph is measuring is physiological response, deviation from your physiology. Things change internally when a person decides to tell a lie, and that can`t be masked and it can`t be controlled.

GRACE: Are you talking about heartbeat, perspiration, what, body temperature?

TRIMARCO: I`m talking about respiratory cycle. When we decide to tell a lie, our breathing changes in a predictable way. We sweat instantly, and our pulse rate might change. But more importantly, blood pressure goes up and comes down, all within a five, six, maybe even a seven-second window.

GRACE: Tonight with us, bounty hunter from California Leonard Padilla. Your theory is there is an accomplice. That theory is shared not only by you but one of Caylee`s -- by one of Casey -- mom, Casey Anthony`s, very best friends. What`s your theory, and why?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, the situation is, she ran out of gas at the checking cashing store on the 26th. And there was a tremendous amount of communication on her phone on the evening of the 26th and also on the 27th, when she called her boyfriend to come pick her up, that the car had run out of gas. And it goes on into the 28th and then it stops. It just stops. No communication with hardly anybody. And the car naturally got towed off on the 30th.

So there had to be somebody giving her a hand at that time because if you`re dealing with a body in a garbage bag, it`s, like -- you know, it`s an awful thing to say, but if you talk to a coroner or somebody that`s handled cadavers, they`ll tell you it`s like having 30 pounds of stew in a garbage bag. And if you have a bone breakthrough, it`ll just literally cover the trunk of the car with fluids. So you basically have to have somebody with you to help you keep somewhat your composure and also to get it over into the dumpster.

GRACE: To Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, famed forensic scientist. Would that explain evidence of human decomposition in the trunk of mom, Casey Anthony`s, car?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Nancy, let me just set the record straight. Thirty pounds of feathers or 30 pounds of lead is still 30 pounds. What they call dead weight is still the weight, living or dead. Now, the answer to your question is, there may be some indicators, looking at physical evidence, indicators of decomposition which would support the theory that there was a dead body in that trunk. That`s really the issue. Are the tests reliable? Are they complete? Are there other explanations for finding these things? That`s what we have to focus on.

GRACE: Back to bounty hunter Leonard Padilla. You keep talking about the phone records. Have you seen them?

PADILLA: Yes, we -- we have a complete set of her phone records that go from around the 10th of June all the way out to the end of July.

GRACE: Where did you get them?

PADILLA: We got them from Lee, her brother.

GRACE: OK. Mr. Padilla, in the sworn search warrant, it states point blank the so-called phone call that mom, Casey Anthony, got from nanny Zenaida Gonzalez, where she put little Caylee on the phone right before they hung up -- did that phone call come in?

PADILLA: No, no. There`s absolutely no record of any such phone call. And we`ve gone over and over the phone bill, and it`s just not there. There is no...

GRACE: So you have the phone records right now. You`ve got them.

PADILLA: On me. No, I don`t have them with me.

GRACE: At your office. At your office.

PADILLA: I`ve got them at my office, yes.

GRACE: What else did you learn from the phone records?

PADILLA: Well, that she`s constantly on the phone, constantly, constantly, constantly. The night of the 15th, when we believe she had a big blow-up with the family because her mom had come back from the Father`s Day and she`d found out that she stole money from the grandparents -- I believe at that time is when she left the house, not the following day on the 16th. And that is because the phone calls and the pattern of phone calls is such that it doesn`t seem like she was making them out of the house, although the towers that cover the house would also cover a hotel where she might have been spotted.

GRACE: Well, if she were in the house, she wouldn`t be talking to her mother on the cell phone, anyway.

PADILLA: Well, no, she wasn`t talking to her mother. She was talking to her boyfriend and other people.

GRACE: Oh, I see. OK. So you think she may have been in the house at that time?

PADILLA: She might have been. But I think shortly afterwards, she left, which would be in conflict somewhat with...

GRACE: OK.

PADILLA: ... you know, her having left on the 16th.

GRACE: Did you see any evidence in these phone records of phone calls from or to a nanny?

PADILLA: Absolutely none. And I can tell you this, that we`ve gone over every phone call and identified every one of them. And there is no Zenaida on there whatsoever. None.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. A stunning theory emerges. Did mom, Casey Anthony, have help in getting rid of little Caylee?

Also tonight, more of those blockbuster interrogation audiotapes have been released.

Out to Mike Brooks. Weigh in, Mike.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, you`re putting all these pieces of this timeline together now, Nancy. And you know, we`re -- I -- you look back, and even the roommate, Nate -- he says that it was on the 15th that she was there, 15th, 16th, during the all-star game, and it`s the 15th that she alleges that she received that call that never happened from Caylee.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By failing to notify somebody, you`ve put your daughter at greater risk.

CASEY ANTHONY: Even bigger risk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You put your daughter in terrible danger by just letting this drag out five weeks and not telling anybody. That`s -- you`re right. I`m not going to argue with you there.

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ll offer up my computer in a heartbeat, just like with my phone logs and everything else, anything that could possibly help. That`s why we set up Web sites and have been making phone calls and trying to get ahold of people. I had such a limited number of people that I was actually trusting at that point, thinking maybe they could help, maybe they`d have some insight. I didn`t want to involve a bunch of people that maybe didn`t know the situation.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked you this at the onset and I asked you before we went on tape, and I`ll ask you again just to make sure we`re clear. Is there anything about this story that you`re telling me that is untrue?

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or is there anything that you want to change or divert from what you`ve already told me?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re...

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission...

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and hasn`t returned her?

CASEY ANTHONY: ... the last person that I had seen with my daughter, yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: She used to talk about people all the time but never used specific names or really go into any detail about anything, and it never seemed weird. Some people are just very particular about giving out details or specific details about other people. So I understood all of that. But looking back at stuff now -- the privacy, the way she was a little bit changing phones and -- it just -- it didn`t seem right whatsoever.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: More of those blockbuster audiotapes released. We are taking your calls. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically, if you`re trying to fabricate a story to kind of make something look a little bit better, now`s your time to tell me. Are you telling me that this is the story you want to stick with?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s the truth. It`s the story I`m going to stick with, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. In your own words -- let`s go back. Your daughter`s name is Caylee, C-A-Y-L-E-E?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marie Anthony. She was born August 9?

CASEY ANTHONY: 2005.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And according to your statement back on August 9 -- I`m sorry -- back on June 9, 2008, you took Casey (SIC) to a baby-sitter`s house.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And who was this baby-sitter?

CASEY ANTHONY: Her name is Zenaida Fernandez-Gonzales.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long have you known Zenaida?

CASEY ANTHONY: Almost four years. It`ll be four years Christmas this year.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where did you meet her? Who did you meet her through?

CASEY ANTHONY: A mutual friend. His name is Jeffrey Michael Hopkins. I met him at Nickelodeon at Universal. I met her through him. She was his son`s nanny at the time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does Jeffrey still work at Universal?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, he does not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long has it been since he left?

CASEY ANTHONY: About 9, 10 months, give or take.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he move back to Jacksonville?

CASEY ANTHONY: He moved up to North Carolina for a short time and moved down to Jacksonville within the last three months.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was the last time you spoke with him?

CASEY ANTHONY: About a week-and-a-half ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Do you know a telephone number for him?

CASEY ANTHONY: I can find a number for him. I don`t know a number off hand. No, I do not.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back to your statement. You dropped off your - - you dropped off Caylee on June 9, and walk me through. You dropped her off to go work?

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Get off of work and -- go from there.

CASEY ANTHONY: I got off of work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee, like a normal day. And I show up to the apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers. So I called Zenaida`s cell phone, and it`s out of service. It says that the phone is no longer in service. Excuse me.

So I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if maybe it was just a fluke, if something happened. And time passed. I didn`t hear from anyone. No one showed up to the house. So I went over to Jay Blanchard Park and checked a couple other places where maybe possibly they would`ve gone, a couple stores, just regular places that I know Zenaida shops at and she`s taken Caylee before.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned something before we went on tape about your cell phones.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. I have two phones. I had just received a new phone through work, through Universal. The phone won`t keep charged, so I use my old phone that I actually had gotten again through Universal for work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did you lose the phone?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that phone, you`re saying, was a SIM card and the SIM card had the contact information?

CASEY ANTHONY: Actually, the SIM card is in my Nokia phone, but I know there`s numbers saved to the cell phone itself. So if we get the actual phone, I know I have one other number for Zenaida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they`re not in your SIM card?

CASEY ANTHONY: They`re not saved on the SIM card, they`re saved on the phone. I`ve been trying to figure out on that new phone how to save numbers from the phone to the SIM card and switch them back and forth so that I have everything all in one piece..

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So the phone where you have the number saved was lost.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. I filed an incident report.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, how did you end up keeping the SIM card?

CASEY ANTHONY: I had taken it out. I know I left the phone on my desk at work after I`d switched the SIM card back to my old phone because this was the phone that actually would keep charge. I want to be able to have a working phone instead of having a phone that would only stay charged for about a half hour and then it would die and I can`t make any more calls. It`s for me not practical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So after you -- after you switched the SIM cards on the phone, what?

CASEY ANTHONY: I left it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CASEY ANTHONY: I know I left it on my desk. And I hadn`t been at work for at least three or four days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said you made a report to Universal or...

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, with security.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?

CASEY ANTHONY: Nine days ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine days ago?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: All of that, lies. She hasn`t worked at Universal in years. She didn`t leave her phone on her desk. None of this happened

I want to go out to Robert Dick, former head of security for Casey Anthony. In fact, detectives are flying out to California to interrogate, to question him about what Anthony told him. That is not the story that she told you, Robert Dick. What did she tell you when you two were in the car together?

ROBERT DICK, FORMER SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Well, Nancy, that -- she said Jay Blanchard Park, like she said in the report, but the story had changed, that she said she had went straight to Jay Blanchard Park, met Zenaida and her sister, and the sister, Samantha, had played with the kids and taken Caylee away while Zenaida held her back. I mean, it`s a complete different story, just using the same people with the addition of Samantha.

GRACE: But in your story, she never went to Sawgrass Apartments. She met the at Jay Blanchard Park. They were all playing. And there was a mention that Zenaida Gonzalez gave her a script to go by?

DICK: Right. She kept feeding me lines to -- in her mind, supposedly, to help me confirm her story. But you know, knowing most of these answers ahead of time, you could see the lies that they were trying to unravel and trying to help stop going into roadblocks where law enforcement was proving she was lying.

GRACE: Did Casey Anthony tell you the nanny told her what to say when asked about where Caylee was?

DICK: She told me that she was given a script, that she had certain lines to say to law enforcement and whoever asked questions for the next 30 days.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: My one goal is -- regardless of how it happened, the thing is, I don`t care. I will lie, I will steal or do whatever I can to find my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...

CASEY ANTHONY: I put that in my statement, and I mean that with all of my heart.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did Zenaida give you any money that day?

CASEY ANTHONY: No. I would not have sold my daughter. If I wanted to really just get rid of her, I would have left her with my parents and I would have left. I would have moved out. I would have given my mom custody.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And there`s the issue of pillow talk, how many people she spent time with -- Tony Lazarro, Ricardo Morales, Jesse Grund, Tony Rusciano (ph). Will that come into evidence? Is there any privilege that would keep what she told her various lovers about the scenario -- take a look at what she said to Jesse Grund.

"I remember a phone conversation I had with Casey. I asked her to come to the nightclub. I asked where was Caylee. She said she was with the nanny at the beach for the week, or the weekend. Later on, Casey says, If my mom or dad try to call you, don`t answer. I`ll explain later."

There are a lot of guys that police have to interrogate. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Renee Rockwell out of Atlanta, Alan Ripka out of New York. Is there any privilege, Alan Ripka, that would keep their testimony from coming in at trial?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely not, Nancy. Anything that`s asked of these people, if they want to respond, they can and they will. And they`ll be called to court to refute anything she has to say.

GRACE: Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Doesn`t come in, Nancy, just like all that rambling in the police department doesn`t come in, either, I don`t think.

GRACE: Well, why wouldn`t what she said to her boyfriend come into evidence?

ROCKWELL: I`m sorry, there`s no way to keep it out (ph) from coming in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: Do you have any of these phone numbers programmed into your SIM card that you kept into your other phone?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: No, I do not.

MELICH: How long did you have this old phone?

ANTHONY: I`ve had the Nokia for almost a full year.

MELICH: OK. So after a full year of dealing with Zenaida and having her babysit, you don`t remember.

ANTHONY: Switching the numbers back and forth. Zenaida`s number has changed a couple different times. She switched services between having Sprint or having AT&T or Cingular.

MELICH: What about Jeffrey? You`ve known him for at least four years.

ANTHONY: His numbers changed a couple different times from when he moved from Orlando up to North Carolina and back down to Jacksonville. I know I do have a current number for him.

MELICH: How would you get that number?

ANTHONY: If we can find that other phone or I might have it online, I may be able to access it off the Internet.

WELLS: So we might be able to track her. We might be able to track her.

ANTHONY: If I check my logs we could probably find her through instant messaging.

WELLS: You know what would be great is if we could have our forensic computer guy take your computer with your permission and search it and he can probably track her by her AOL or whatever account and maybe see -- because she`s got to set up another account somewhere where she goes.

ANTHONY: Oh yes. She`s going to set up another account.

WELLS: Would that be something you`d be willing to do?

ANTHONY: I`m OK with that.

WELLS: Yes.

ANTHONY: Because I know that I have documentation on my computer somewhere.

WELLS: OK.

ANTHONY: I have to.

WELLS: Well, he can find it. He -- what he does, he makes a copy of what`s on your computer so you don`t lose anything on your computer.

ANTHONY: Yes. That way he can just pull it.

SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: Why would a person who has hid your daughter from you for give weeks, OK, bring her to the building that you used to work at?

I mean did you think we`d walk in here she`d be sitting in the lobby or.

ANTHONY: No.

ALLEN: OK. Well, you brought us here to find her, right? Because you thought maybe some weird sort of what you said backwards way that we`d find her here, that this would her, so I`m asking you.

ANTHONY: Maybe she`s been here within the last five weeks. Maybe they have something from up front her coming through the turnstiles. I don`t know.

ALLEN: So you think that this person who`d hid her from you for five weeks, OK, that had her call you on the phone yesterday and tell you about this book she was reading then hung up, would bring her to Universal Studios? And in this office in particular?

ANTHONY: Not in this office. Coming to this office.

ALLEN: Well, this is where you brought us.

ANTHONY: It wasn`t.

ALLEN: I mean, you didn`t take us to the turnstiles, did you? You brought us here, right?

ANTHONY: You`re right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: In fact, she claims that she has known Zenaida Gonzalez for four years that she met the so-called nanny through a coworker named Jesse Michael Hopkins.

Hopkins was questioned. He did, in fact, once worked in the vicinity of Casey Anthony, but there were only hi and bye. They didn`t know each other and no Zenaida Gonzalez ever worked for him.

Everything she says is a lie.

Out to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by there in Orlando -- Natisha, what can you tell me about reports that she had relationships with more than two cops?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, actually, according to the PIO I spoke to at the sheriff`s office, they are not aware of any other relationships that she had with more than one officer, other than Jesse Grund and Anthony Ragusa.

GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell and Alan Ripka, those reports are throwing.

How, Allan, will that affect the investigation?

ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s going to be really bad, because, obviously, the defense, as I would claim, that the police officers having a relationship with her can`t have possibly done a thorough investigation and been objective in this investigation.

And who knows what information she told them and who knows what information is going to be claimed they got rid of on her behalf?

GRACE: What about it, Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t see a police officer getting rid of any information. I think the bigger problem is that they`re just trying to throw that in to defame her. I think she`s done enough on her own. I don`t think that had any bearing.

GRACE: I don`t think she needs any help to get defamed. I guess you two are living on another planet from me.

Mike Brooks, it is a horrible compromise of an investigation for police officers to actually be romancing -- and I`m putting that euphemistically -- a person of interest in a potential murder case.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Right. It depends on which time, when they were romancing her, as you call it, Nancy, because if they have gone ahead and taken a polygraph and been cleared by the department of any involvement in this, then it really shouldn`t matter that much to the case.

GRACE: If only we had that missing -- that cell phone. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY: After about 7:00 when I still hadn`t heard anything I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic. And I went to a neutral place. I didn`t really want to come home. I wasn`t sure what I`d say about not knowing where Caylee was. Still hoping that I would get a call or, you know, find out that Caylee was coming back so that I could go get her.

And I ended up going to my boyfriend Anthony`s house who lived in Sutton place.

MELICH: Did you talk to Anthony about what happened with Caylee?

ANTHONY: No, I did not.

WELLS: Did she ever make any funny, oh like I love this child, you know, and I wish you were mine or anything like that? Or.

ANTHONY: Never that I have witnessed or anybody else had ever told me. She used to just say how much she loved Caylee and that she was such a good kid. And you know, she was very, very proud of how she was being raised.

WELLS: Right.

ANTHONY: It was always good praise but more of things that I heard from other friends, nothing that sounded out of the ordinary that was ever strange or weird.

WELLS: Right.

ANTHONY: But then this just happened. And she was nonchalant with me in the morning of. Everything was perfectly fine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Taking your calls, out to the lines, Tamara in California. Hi, dear.

TAMARA, CALIFORNIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. You are doing a wonderful job and nobody could do this better than you.

GRACE: Thank you.

TAMARA: And my question is, she is saying that she has known Zenaida for four years. Now she lived with her mom and dad for quite some time, so had they ever met Zenaida or heard about Zenaida prior to this happening?

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, what do we know?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, BELIEVES TOT MOM HAD AN ACCOMPLICE: In several conversations that I had with Zenaida she definitely does not.

GRACE: Right, you did not have a conversation with Zenaida.

PADILLA: Yes, I have.

GRACE: Zenaida Gonzalez.

PADILLA: The Zenaida Gonzalez that applied for the apartment.

GRACE: Oh, the real Zenaida Gonzalez, right.

PADILLA: Well, the.

GRACE: The question is.

PADILLA: I`m talking about the -- I`m talking about the Zenaida Gonzalez.

GRACE: Did Cindy and George Anthony ever meet or see the nanny?

PADILLA: No. No.

GRACE: That`s the question.

PADILLA: No. No.

GRACE: OK. You met the real Zenaida Gonzalez that has never met Casey Anthony.

PADILLA: Correct. The one that applied for the apartment...

GRACE: Correct.

PADILLA: . at the Saw Grass, yes.

GRACE: OK. Got it. So the bottom line is, no, the grandparents never saw in all those years or spoke to Zenaida Gonzalez.

Out to the lines, Dena in Indiana, hi, Dena.

DENA, INDIANA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, I love your show and your twins are absolutely beautiful.

GRACE: Thank you.

DENA: My question is, actually, to Mr. Padilla. When he was doing security for Casey, when he was still on the bond, did he have any sort of listening device or anything in the home? Because he seems to be dropping little hints here and there.

Did he overhear something?

GRACE: Well, he was in the home.

Leonard Padilla, please respond.

PADILLA: No, we -- we didn`t have any listening devices and we had several conversations with Cindy and George prior to Casey actually getting out of jail. We got there on a Sunday, and she didn`t get out until Thursday. So we were in constant communication with each other.

We were in and out of the home. We were talking to each other. And even up until the conversation that I had with Casey that morning, I still spoke with George and Cindy sometimes outside the house. I never went back in the house. And they`d come out into the RV and talk to us. Or in the driveway.

GRACE: So you learned everything pretty much from them.

Leonard Padilla is with us tonight.

PADILLA: Correct.

GRACE: Robert Dick, as well. Police now heading out to interrogate, question them, about what they know about the case. We know from Robert Dick, Casey Anthony gave him a different version of what happened to little Caylee.

Leonard, why are they interrogating you?

PADILLA: Well, I believe it`s because of the same conversation I had with Cindy. When she told me that her daughter had told her the story about she went to Blanchard Park, and Zenaida and Samantha, her sister, took the baby away, gave her a scripted 30-day statement to make to police, and then when Casey herself gave me that statement about half an hour after the mom had given it to me.

And I think they just want to tie it down and make sure that they`ve got it face-to-face. I`m positive that`s what it is. Plus, they might also be going down to 29 Palms to talk to a fellow by the name of Mark Hawkins, a marine that`s stationed there, who had two conversations on the evening of the 26th when her car ran out of gas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WELLS: You`re our biggest help. You`re going to be our biggest help in solving this.

ANTHONY: I have nothing to go off of. That`s the problem. I have perspective ideas of maybe where she could go.

WELLS: Tell me.

ANTHONY: At the same time -- she could have gone back up to New York. She could have gone up to Jacksonville where we have a friend, could have gone down to Miami where her mom and her sister live now.

She could have gone anywhere.

WELLS: Did she have any children?

ANTHONY: No.

WELLS: And we`re talking about the babysitter, right? She didn`t have any children?

ANTHONY: No.

WELLS: Could she have children? Is this something that she could have done and.

ANTHONY: I`m pretty sure that she could. That was never anything that came up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELICH: OK. Who else did you talk to about this besides Jeffrey? You said you tried to call Zenaida`s mom?

PADILLA: Uh-huh.

MELICH: You talked to Jeffrey? Who else did you talk to?

ANTHONY: I talked to Juliette Lewis. She`s one of my coworkers at Universal.

MELICH: She works -- you still work at Universal.

ANTHONY: Yes

MELICH: What -- what do you do at Universal?

ANTHONY: An event coordinator.

MELICH: OK. What is Juliette -- what position is she? Where does she work?

ANTHONY: She`s also an event coordinator. We work in the same department.

MELICH: You have a number for Juliette?

ANTHONY: Off hand, I can`t think of one.

MELICH: She in your SIM card?

ANTHONY: No, she`s not. Some of them are recent numbers. Her number just changed because she just moved back up north. She -- within the last two months has finished moving up to New York.

She`s been subleasing her apartment.

MELICH: So Juliette doesn`t work at Universal anymore?

ANTHONY: No, she does not.

WELLS: When she was watching your baby, she helped you for a year and a half?

ANTHONY: Almost two years.

WELLS: Almost two years. Was she always in that same building?

ANTHONY: She`d been at a house over in Andover Lakes for a while. That was one of the main things.

WELLS: Was it her house or was it one she was sharing?

ANTHONY: No, it was a friend`s house.

WELLS: So it probably wasn`t in her name?

ANTHONY: No, it was not.

WELLS: Do you remember how to get to that house? So we can get the address, maybe do a title search or -- but she was probably just renting a room or.

ANTHONY: I think she`s just renting a room there for a while.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Man, she`s so convincing and lies in such elaborate detail.

To psychotherapist Stacy Kaiser joining us out of L.A. -- Stacy, welcome.

STACY KAISER, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Hi.

GRACE: What do you make of her demeanor? She`s so calm and all of her lies have so much detail. I mean the way she tells it, it`s so believable. But she knows -- we know that none of this is true. None of these people admit that they had these conversations, that they worked with her. Nothing.

KAISER: Part of what we know about people who are pathological liars is that they go into a lot of detail. So all of the little details, how she is talking about, oh, I sat on the step, and I do this and I do that, that`s part of the indicator that she is not telling the truth. She is trying to make it more elaborate so it sounds like she is telling the truth.

GRACE: What do you make of her demeanor?

KAISER: I would say that her affect is completely flat. That she is completely disassociated from the whole experience and not feeling much of anything at this time.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Samantha in Kentucky. Hi, Samantha.

SAMANTHA, KENTUCKY RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

SAMANTHA: I have actually two questions. First one is, with her sleeping with that cop, could he have gotten access to the chloroform that was found in her car, maybe? And the second question was, how she had stated she left work from Universal to pick up Caylee. Now, isn`t it true she hasn`t worked for Universal in a couple of years?

GRACE: In years. In years she hasn`t worked there. All of this business about losing her phone there and filing an incident report with Universal. She hasn`t worked there in years.

Out to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI, a cop getting chloroform? I don`t think so.

BROOKS: No, I don`t think so, either, Nancy. That just doesn`t add up. And also, on the whole investigative side of things, I seriously doubt if he would have any access to any of the investigative files in this case at all, too.

GRACE: To Jack Trimarco, polygraph expert, formerly fed with the FBI.

Jack, we understand the grandparents are now refusing to take a polygraph. Very often, we hear people opt to take a private polygraph arranged by their lawyer. Why?

JACK TRIMARCO, POLYGRAPH EXPERT, FORMER FBI POLYGRAPH UNIT CHIEF OF L.A.: Well, Nancy, quite frankly, the lawyer will never be sure that the client can pass the polygraph test.

And so any credible defense attorney in the country is going to first polygraph their client privately to be sure that he can pass the exam before he turns them over to law enforcement for the law enforcement polygraph exam.

In the world of polygraph, if two experts are testing the same issue, you should turn out with the same results. And thus, it`s going to be a positive for that person cooperating with the authorities.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, you met and spoke extensively with the grandparents. Why do you believe they`re not taking a polygraph?

PADILLA: Well, I don`t really believe it`s their decision not to take it. I think Lee is the one that didn`t want to take a polygraph. And at the time, I believe he influenced them to say, no, we don`t want to take -- the fact is, I think that he`s the one who voiced the objection to taking the polygraph on their behalf.

I think he strenuously objected to it and they just kind of went along with it.

GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, now we learn that Lee Anthony`s statement has been released. What do we learn with what the brother told the cops?

DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, what the brother told the cops, I`m not really sure, I wish you`re hitting on that one as something more specific?

GRACE: Well, I understand -- Natisha, are you familiar with his statement to police?

LANCE: Yes.

GRACE: Natisha Lance, what did he say?

LANCE: Lee Anthony, he -- the statements that he gave to police is that he hadn`t seen his sister in weeks. She hadn`t been around. Also, he talked about the same thing that she had been with the nanny.

GRACE: You know, I`ve got his statement right here in my hands. And he describes Casey began to break down and told me she doesn`t know where Caylee is, hasn`t seen her in 31 days.

You know, it`s basically the same story about the nanny. But that she actually breaks down and shows emotion that one time.

To Pam in Tennessee, hi, Pam.

PAM, TENNESSEE RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for keeping this on the front burner.

GRACE: Thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

PAM: My question is, I cannot understand how Casey Anthony came up with that very specific name of the woman who, from what Mr. Padilla said, has applied to that apartment complex for an apartment. Never lived there but yet she went to that apartment. Does she have connections in that rental office or somewhere to come up with that name?

GRACE: Leonard, what about it? How do -- where did she get that name? Zenaida Gonzalez did come to that apartment complex.

PADILLA: She did go there on the 17th, she did fill out an application. And the information is accurate. Her phone number is the same phone number that she has as of yesterday.

And I think what it is that Casey has friends in Apartment 218, Andy Downey and Dante, and I think somehow, she got a hold of that application.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY: My one goal is regardless of how it happened, the thing is I don`t care, I will lie, I will steal or do whatever I can to find my daughter.

WELLS: Well.

ANTHONY: I put that in my statement and I mean that with all of my heart.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO, what can you tell me about grandmother, Cindy, going on Univision?

PETRIMOULX: Yes, you know, we haven`t heard much from her lately. This one of the first time that we heard from her. She said she wanted to do an interview with a Spanish speaking audience because of theory that she has that Caylee is missing in Puerto Rico.

We`ve heard her mentioned Puerto Rico, Texas and some other places, so she said she did this interview to try to reach a Spanish speaking audience specifically in Puerto Rico.

GRACE: Leonard, why is she focusing on Puerto Rico?

PADILLA: Well, some of the friends of Casey went down there and I even suggested that she do that prior to the results from the Tennessee and FBI lab coming out.

Obviously, my thinking changed completely at that time, but I had suggested at that time that she go on Spanish speaking because of the friends that had gone down to Puerto Rico.

GRACE: Weigh in, Mike Brooks.

BROOKS: I`ll tell you, Nancy, they`re doing all this. Are they still in denial? I mean, I think Leonard will say yes, I think that the Anthonys are still in denial, because everything points to Caylee being deceased, unfortunately.

GRACE: To Renee and Alan - Renee, she`s not going to crack, is she?

ROCKWELL: Well, no, not as long as she`s out. And if she would have stayed in jail, maybe she would have cracked but not as long as she`s out, going in and out.

GRACE: Alan Ripka?

RIPKA: And I`ll tell you this, if she doesn`t crack and everything stayed the same, they would have no homicide charges in this particular case.

GRACE: Everybody, let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Jason Kazarick, 30, Oakmont, Pennsylvania, killed, Iraq. Awarded the Bronze Star, Purple Heart, dreamed of being in the Special Forces.

Remember for a kind and generous heart, even picking flowers. Leaves behind grieving mom Susan, brother Taylor, sister Marissa, fiancee Suzanne and her son Tim.

Jason Kazarick, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/17/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Anthonys Clash With Protesters Outside Home

Aired September 18, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell. We obtain mom, Casey`s, private phone records. They totally debunk mom, Casey`s, story, her timeline, her excuses, her entire interrogation. And it`s all caught on tape. It`s all in cold, hard, black and white phone records. She lied.

The phone records reveal not a single call to or from the so-called baby-sitter. Casey Anthony claims she spoke to both the nanny and little Caylee herself after Caylee goes missing. We now find out just who Casey Anthony was really calling during those crucial hours.

And tonight more bombshell audiotapes released. At this hour, investigators conducting interviews out of state. And just hours ago, mom, Casey, makes a stunning 911 call demanding police rush to the Anthony home. Why? Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: 911. What is your emergency?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Yes. There are protesters still outside of our home. We already called about an hour-and-a-half ago. It took over 30 minutes for the officers to get here. The protesters are now banging on our garage door. They`ve still been throwing things at our windows and our garage. And now the media`s here. My father`s going outside and there`s going to be a fight. So please, can you send people down here because -- there`s now a physical altercation. You need to send vehicles immediately.

911 OPERATOR: It`s getting physical?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, it`s getting physical right now.

911 OPERATOR: Do you see them physically fighting?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, I see them physically fighting. We have surveillance.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey Anthony remains holed up in the house nearly three months after her daughter, Caylee went missing. She is charged with child neglect and lying to authorities in the case of her missing daughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What about the baby`s dad`s parents? Would you have left her with them, too?

CASEY ANTHONY: I haven`t talked to them since we were probably 6 or 7 years old, since we were little kids. That was probably the last time I saw...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t have a phone...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... or talked to them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... number for them?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, I do not. I would not have let anything happen to my daughter, except I made the mistake of trusting another person with her. That`s it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You -- you -- no, no. Stop. You -- you...

CASEY ANTHONY: That...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You -- you made...

CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve made a lot...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... of mistakes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`ve made a lot more mistakes.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, NFL Hall of Famer turned double murder suspect O.J. Simpson back in court, facing life behind bars in a Vegas armed robbery. Hey, Simpson, buckle up! You`re not in LA anymore.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

O.J. SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of this room. (DELETED)! Think you can steal my (DELETED) and sell it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

SIMPSON: Don`t let nobody out of here. (DELETED)! You think you can steal my (DELETED)?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judgment day for O.J. Simpson. Simpson back on trial, this time for allegedly leading a personal sting operation in a Las Vegas casino, holding up two sports memorabilia dealers at gunpoint.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at this (DELETED)!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get over there~!

SIMPSON: You think you can steal my (DELETED)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Backs to the wall~!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was trying to get past you!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Walk your (DELETED) over there!~

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simpson facing a slew of charges, including kidnapping with a deadly weapon, robbery with a deadly weapon and assault, charges that could put him behind bars for the rest of his life. But Simpson maintains he didn`t ask anyone to bring guns into the room and just wanted his stuff back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Do you know if there`s any weapons?

CASEY ANTHONY: I don`t know if there`s any weapons. I know that my father`s outside, and so is my mother. So please send as many people as you possibly can.

911 OPERATOR: And who is this?

CASEY ANTHONY: They need to be arrested because this can`t keep happening. We already had six or seven officers out here (INAUDIBLE) 45 minutes, and they didn`t do anything. And these are the same punks that were out here all night throwing stuff at our house.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the line with me, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: I absolutely will. But they need to hurry up. They were -- they just left not that long ago.

911 OPERATOR: The police officers?

CASEY ANTHONY: The police officers just left about 1:00 o`clock, yes.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the line.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That makes sense to you? It makes sense to you that, I`m trying to help the police find my daughter by giving them a bunch of bad addresses? That makes sense to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: That`s what I said, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, I`m asking you. That makes sense to you? My attempt...

CASEY ANTHONY: That part of it, no, not at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My attempt to help him find my child -- OK, what I`ve done to help him find my child is I`ve given him a whole bunch of addresses to go to that are bad addresses. That`s what I did to help him try to find my child. That makes sense to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: I took him to the last place that I`ve seen my daughter. Besides that, I took them to other places that I`ve seen...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, when you brought us here -- when you brought us here to go look in your office, that was supposed to help us how? Because everything we`re doing here is about finding your daughter, OK? So I want you, OK, to explain to me how coming here to go to an office that you don`t have -- I want you to tell me how that`s helping us find your daughter.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB 1150. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the latest, of course, it looked like a battle royale overnight in the east part of Orlando last night. Around midnight, Casey -- or Caylee -- Cindy Anthony called 911, the dispatchers there, saying the protesters had been in front of her house and they started to throw things, of course, at the house. They turned out to be coins. The cops came out. They shooed the protesters away. About 1:30 then, the protesters returned again. Casey, Casey Anthony gets on the phone...

GRACE: Mark -- Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Yes, sir? Yes, ma`am?

GRACE: Aren`t you a little surprised Casey Anthony didn`t launch her own investigation for the next 31 days, like she did trying to find her missing daughter?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know...

GRACE: This is her demanding police, going all valley girl on the police on 911 -- I`m about to play it for you -- insisting they come back out there, Somebody needs to be arrested. But yet when her own daughter is missing, she didn`t call police?

WILLIAMS: She was very indignant on...

GRACE: Somebody throws a nickel...

WILLIAMS: ... that phone call...

GRACE: ... at their house and they call police?

WILLIAMS: Yes. And she sounded very indignant on those phone calls. We`ve all listened to them just a couple of moments ago, and I`ve heard the full version of them. And it`s, like, I won`t help you, but you`ve got to come out here and help me.

GRACE: You know what? You`re right. Let`s take a listen right now, Mark Williams.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: About how many people are out there?

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s at least a dozen people, and now two media vans. And there`s actually more people walking in from across the street.

911 OPERATOR: How many people are actually involved in the alteration?

CASEY ANTHONY: I already did! I already did!

Channel 2 news has everything on tape already.

GRACE: OK. How many people are involved in the altercation?

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s at least a dozen people. My mom`s out there now, spraying people with the hose, or my father is. They`re trying to get them off the property. They`re also trespassing on our property besides. I know...

911 OPERATOR: And it`s still happening? They`re still...

CASEY ANTHONY: They`re still standing on the property, yes. They`re out there recording it.

911 OPERATOR: Well, what about the physical altercation? Is it over?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s already over. Yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: It`s no longer physical?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s no longer physical, but it was already physical...

911 OPERATOR: Is this a protester, or is this a resident?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s the protesters.

911 OPERATOR: No, I`m saying, Who are you?

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m the resident. We have everything on tape, thanks to Channel 2, and also our home surveillance.

911 OPERATOR: Was there any weapons involved?

CASEY ANTHONY: Not that I could see, no.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Are both your parents outside?

CASEY ANTHONY: Both of my parents are outside, yes.

911 OPERATOR: Are they separated (ph) or are they throwing (ph) a verbal?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s still verbal. And there`s still at least a dozen people on our property. Mom`s bringing my dad inside, so at least my parents aren`t outside, but their (INAUDIBLE) get taken care of immediately.

911 OPERATOR: Are they inside now?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, my parents are inside right now.

911 OPERATOR: What happened?

CASEY ANTHONY: Both of my parents were hit by two of the protesters. As you heard from both my parents, Channel 2 has it on video.

911 OPERATOR: OK.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: So can we get people out here immediately.

911 OPERATOR: There`s somebody on their way. I just need you to stay on the line, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: OK. I`ll stay on the line until somebody comes. No problem.

911 OPERATOR: All right, we have several units on the way.

CASEY ANTHONY: OK. Thank you.

911 OPERATOR: Just stay on the phone just (INAUDIBLE)

CASEY ANTHONY: I will. OK. Thank you. Well, one of the vehicles just left (INAUDIBLE) have the tags. He just left. You already have the tag.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, the guys just left. They just got in the car and left. I`m watching the street.

My mom went outside and got the tag information for the vehicle that had been out in front of our house for the last three-and-a-half hours.

911 OPERATOR: OK. So that`s the people that were involved in the physical?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, they were the people that were involved in the physical altercation. We have the make and model of the vehicle and also the tag numbers.

911 OPERATOR: OK. The make and model is...

CASEY ANTHONY: It was a white Ford Expedition.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Was it a Florida tag?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, it was a Florida tag.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Man, for somebody that doesn`t know her nanny of four years` phone number, she sure can retain a lot of information about people she`s only seen for a few moments.

Back to Mark Williams, WNDB. You know, what I hate is that George and Cindy Anthony are having to live through this and go through all this torment. But there`s a way that Casey Anthony can get all these people to leave herself, and that is by telling the truth.

WILLIAMS: Well, you hit that right on the head. And when Casey made mention of the fact there were no weapons involved, Cindy Anthony was in a league of her own last night when she came out with an aluminum baseball bat. She was ready to do business. And this is the second time this week, Nancy, we have seen her in a confrontation. The first time, of course, over the weekend, when she and a woman got into it in front of their house. I mean, it`s -- the violence is escalating.

GRACE: You know, as much as I would love to continue talking about somebody pulling a water hose and throwing quarters at the house, let`s talk about the missing girl for a moment. Let`s talk about Caylee. Remember the 3-year-old girl that is missing? What did you learn in these phone records, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Well, first off, the phone records that your show had obtained exclusively, and they shared them with me, was the fact, like, on June 9, Caylee -- Casey made a call to Zenaida that morning, and then on the 12th, she claims she received a call from Zenaida, and then July 15, allegedly a call from Caylee. Those records don`t match with her statements she gave to police at all, Nancy.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who`s going to be the next hurdle in your life, as far as trying to explain, No, I`m not a neglectful mother, I`m not, you know -- is it going to be your mom?

CASEY ANTHONY: Myself. No, it`s going to be saying that and proving that to myself every day.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She finally talks to her mother after five weeks. You`re -- you ask her where she is. You begin asking her these questions, and she just wants to talk about the book. She`s happy. She`s not worried, doesn`t seem upset.

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s always like that. You can even ask my mom. She`s the same way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Let me go back to the -- when was the last time you didn`t see her for five weeks? When was the last time something like this happened, where she was gone and you didn`t see her for five weeks? The last time this happened when?

CASEY ANTHONY: Never.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so this is the first time, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY: This is the first time I`ve been away from her for more than a day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. This is the first time you`ve ever been away from her for more than a day, and she wasn`t a little bit upset...

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... when you talked to her on the phone that day.

CASEY ANTHONY: She wasn`t the least bit upset when I talked to her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She went on about, You know I miss Mommy, none of that. I just -- she talked about -- like you said, she talked about that book and all that stuff, right? That`s it?

CASEY ANTHONY: And when I asked her to give the phone to another adult, to somebody else, she was fine. She was willing to do it, but the phone hung up. She doesn`t hang up phones.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to go through this, and I want you to stop me at the part that isn`t the truth, OK? You take your daughter and you drop her off on June the 9th, OK...

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... at somebody -- at a baby-sitter`s house, OK? Now, this is a baby-sitter that lives at this apartment, OK, that`s been vacant...

CASEY ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CASEY ANTHONY: At those stairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you just walked her -- you dropped her off and...

CASEY ANTHONY: I walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times besides just that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And when you dropped her off, who took her at that point?

CASEY ANTHONY: Zanny did. She took her at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you left her in Zanny`s care...

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on June the 9th, OK? So far, that`s right?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Do you think if you`re talking about the last day you ever saw your daughter alive, you could get the date straight? We already have placed little Caylee at her grandparents around Father`s Day, which was the next week.

Not only that -- out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California, scheduled to meet with investigators tonight. Mr. Padilla, we have combed through this thick stack of phone records, Casey Anthony`s personal phone records of her cell phone. That is all complete BS, complete, total. Not a shred of it is true. Not one phone call -- and it`s about an inch thick -- not one call in here is to a Zenaida Gonzalez. There`s no incoming call from Zenaida Gonzalez, not on that day, not on any day.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: That`s absolutely correct. She just, you know, made this person up. There just happened to be a person with that name that went to the Sawgrass on the 17th of June, and she`s been running with it ever since. I even provided a children`s storybook today, which is "Double Double Trouble," or something to that effect, and it has to do with Zanny who was a baby-sitter for a family. And like I say, I provided it to the FBI agent that`s here from Orlando to explain to him that that`s where I think she picked up that name of Zenaida Gonzalez. Zanny the baby-sitter, Zanny the nanny.

GRACE: You know, it`s incredible where this is all coming from. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Peter Odom, veteran defense attorney out of Atlanta, Georgia. Also with us, trial lawyer Richard Herman in New York.

To Richard Herman. I don`t know if you`ve gotten a chance to come through this inch stack of phone records -- no such thing as Zanny Gonzalez. No incoming calls from Zenaida Gonzalez, no outgoing, no nothing. Especially disturbing is what she tells cops, which we just played for you, Richard and Peter -- her telling cops with a straight face she called and put Caylee on the phone, Caylee was talking about a book she read. That call didn`t happen.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you know, maybe the phone was in someone else`s name. Not everybody has a phone in their own name. I don`t know...

GRACE: No, no! Wait! Before you say anything else, OK, just try and make it believable, just a little.

(LAUGHTER)

HERMAN: Not everybody who uses a cell phone has that phone registered in their name.

GRACE: It`s her phone! This is her only phone! All that stuff about a Blackjack extra phone that she swapped the SIM card, that was a lie, all right? She said she lost it at Universal. She was at Universal, like, four years ago.

HERMAN: Look, she`s a serial, compulsive liar. Everything she says is all over the place.

GRACE: I don`t care!~

HERMAN: She`s blown a fuse...

GRACE: Don`t care if she`s lying. All I care is about is why is she lying about where the little baby is?

HERMAN: She can`t tell the difference between the truth and a lie right now. She`s gone, Nancy. It`s ridiculous. Any shrink will tell you that on her.

GRACE: Peter Odom...

HERMAN: Bethany will tell you that.

GRACE: Peter Odom, insanity is when you don`t know wrong from right. If she didn`t realize what she had done is wrong, she wouldn`t be lying about it. That defense is not going to work~!

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, all I can -- and I`m no expert on psychology, but I can tell you this...

GRACE: Well, you better be if you want to comment on this case.

(LAUGHTER)

ODOM: This woman has some kind of a mental defect or a disorder.

GRACE: I don`t care. I don`t care.

ODOM: She cannot tell the truth to save her life.

GRACE: All right. You know, you guys are very flippantly throwing around disorder, insanity. To Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." Bethany, the definition under the law of legal insanity is you don`t know right from wrong at the time of the incident.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Right.

GRACE: If she didn`t know what she did with Caylee is wrong, she wouldn`t be lying about it right now.

MARSHALL: Well, pathological lying is associated with antisocial personality disorder. It`s not associated with mental illness like...

GRACE: Antisocial? Did you see how many boyfriends she had, including two cops? She`s not anti-social. She`s very social.

MARSHALL: Well, it`s -- I mean, it`s a misleading term. Anti-social means lack of regard and empathy for others. But the person with antisocial gravitates towards others as need-satisfying objects. The other thing they do...

GRACE: What do you -- what does that -- what?

MARSHALL: OK. It`s a double-edged sword. They see others as marks and...

GRACE: Here`s some more antisocial pictures. I hope you can see them on your monitor.

MARSHALL: Well...

GRACE: That`s her with the stripper pole.

MARSHALL: I believe that what happened to Casey is that because of disorder, she targeted other people to meet her needs, whether it`s with her grandmother`s checkbook for the routing number, her mother to cook meals, to steal gas and money from her, her daughter -- to get rid of Caylee, so she could have an idealized life, and that the elaborate lying is because she understands...

GRACE: Bethany...

MARSHALL: ... on some level...

GRACE: Dr. Bethany...

(CROSSTALK)

MARSHALL: ... but not because she feels guilty.

GRACE: Bethany?

MARSHALL: Yes?

GRACE: Does she think that "Sex and the City" is real, that people really live like that? What idealized lifestyle does she want? Enough to get rid of her baby? I mean, I don`t know if you`ve had a chance to comb through these records...

MARSHALL: Yes, I have.

GRACE: ... but when I look through them and realize there`s not a single call in here to or from any nanny (INAUDIBLE) she`s conducting her own investigation.

MARSHALL: Well, it`s all to her boyfriends, her friends and her mom, and it`s all during lunch hour. It`s like she`s sitting around all day long, or the wee hours of the morning, waiting for them to have their lunch breaks, and then she starts calling. And it`s a minute, a minute, a minute. It`s like she`s a serial caller, trying to get other people`s attention, which is the fundamental basis of antisocial personality disorder. The person doesn`t attach to others, but they want all the attention from others.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These chairs aren`t very comfortable?

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You lay way back.

CASEY ANTHONY: Exactly. I`m not comfortable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel like I`m going to...

CASEY ANTHONY: (LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the nanny ever take...

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... the baby to the doctor?

CASEY ANTHONY: The only people that were on the list was myself and both of my parents.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you cause any injury to your child, Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re...

CASEY ANTHONY: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission...

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... and hasn`t returned her?

CASEY ANTHONY: ... the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Roberta in New York. Hi, Roberta.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. God bless you and your family.

GRACE: Thank you very much. I`m just -- you know what sticks in my head, Roberta, is that when Caylee was missing, she was cooking that big pasta dinner for her boyfriend and she sat there and ate it. If I didn`t know where Lucy was this minute -- I checked on her during the commercial break.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Amen. God bless you.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, could it be possible that Casey sold her daughter for money, since she has not worked for years, and that`s why she`s saying that she feels that her daughter is safe/kidnapped? And she really knows who has her daughter.

GRACE: Mike Brooks, what about it?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, Nancy, that`s one of the theories that was going around in the very, very beginning. And you know, is that a possibility? Because her parents say she`s either in Texas...

GRACE: I don`t think so!

BROOKS: ... Puerto Rico or Mexico. But I don`t think so, Nancy.

GRACE: (INAUDIBLE) the phone bill? It had been discontinued. Did you see it at the top, it had to be a reconnection fee?

BROOKS: Unbelievable.

GRACE: She doesn`t have any money.

BROOKS: No. No. None at all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: We got to throw these lies outside. OK? All these lies are out. We know that everything you told us is a lie.

Tell us what happened to Caylee. Tell us what happened to Caylee.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I dropped off Caylee. And that was the last time that I`ve seen her. I dropped her off.

MELICH: Where did you drop her off?

ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.

MELICH: No, you didn`t.

ANTHONY: That`s exactly where I dropped her off.

MELICH: No, you didn`t. And who`d you drop her to?

ANTHONY: With Zenaida.

MELICH: No, you didn`t.

ANTHONY: She`s the last person.

MELICH: No. That`s not true.

WELLS: The last time you saw her June 9th.

ANTHONY: Ninth. A Monday.

WELLS: Do you remember what you all did on June the 8th?

ANTHONY: It`s a Sunday.

WELLS: I can`t think of what I did, but anything significant?

ANTHONY: I think I might have been at Tony`s. I think my mom took Caylee up to see her parents in Mount Dora. She either took her up there that Saturday or that Sunday.

WELLS: What`s Tony`s.

ANTHONY: It`s my boyfriend`s apartment.

WELLS: Oh OK. So it was a day visit?

ANTHONY: For my parents or for my mom, yes. My mom goes up there and even just by herself or with my dad or I go up there with her.

WELLS: Your baby went up there with your mom to see her parents.

ANTHONY: See her great grandparents.

WELLS: Yes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. To Gayle in Georgia, hi, Gayle.

GAYLE, GEORGIA RESIDENT: Hey, Nancy, how are you? You look so.

GRACE: I`m good. Thank you and thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

GAYLE: Well, I just want to say I have a daughter right now at (INAUDIBLE) George Law School that wants to be a victim`s advocate next to you when she graduates.

GRACE: More power to her.

GAYLE: Oh, thank you. Thank you. My question is this, George and Cindy Anthony have known their daughter for a long time, her manipulations are nothing new to them. Since she -- since Casey is not helping them with the search as they had hoped.

Can`t they eliminate their problems with the protesters and so forth that they`re having by refusing to house her and coming off the conditions of the bond and sending her back to jail with a.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, can they come off the bond? Would they do that? You know them better than any of us.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MEETING WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Well, the thing about it is when we bailed out of Orlando it was because of the safety situation that was starting to increase and nobody believed us. And the thing about it is they can get off that bond any time, remove her, send her back to jail and it`s a lot safer for her and everybody else.

Now, something that came up earlier about the investigators that are out here right now. One thing that I do want to mention that took kind of a strange turn. The attorney for the young lady that was with Casey for nine days in the house and rode with her to the attorneys and back and forth, her attorney won`t let her discuss anything with the investigators that are here from the FBI and Orlando Sheriff`s Office because she didn`t discuss it with Orlando Sheriff`s Office before she left and he`s afraid that they might want to prosecute her for withholding information on some of the things that, I guess, Casey had told her.

So I just wanted to straighten that out over and above what I had said before about them coming out here to talk to everybody.

GRACE: So, Leonard, bottom line, the female security person may know something that actually jeopardizes her own legal stat us?

PADILLA: In talking to her attorney today, he said he could not, in good conscience, allow her to discuss anything, specifically some things that Casey had told her regarding Caylee, without talking to their bosses tomorrow in Orlando.

And so he -- she`s not going to have the meeting today that was supposed to take place and I didn`t want you to think that I lied to you about that.

GRACE: I didn`t.

To Robert Dick, former security with Casey Anthony scheduled to meet with investigators, when you are in Florida, did you ever talk to law enforcement about what Casey Anthony said, Robert?

ROBERT DICK, FORMER HEAD OF SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY, MEETING WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: No. I had no conversations with law enforcement.

GRACE: But you`re set to speak to them now?

DICK: Yes. I have no problem talking to them.

GRACE: When you compare what she told you about Zenaida Gonzalez and her sister Samantha taking the baby there at Blanchard Park, what impression does that leave you with? It`s a completely different story than what she told cops.

DICK: Well, I knew the entire thing was a complete lie. It`s just that my part in that is just to sit there and listen, and let her tangle this web even further. I mean, it`s just -- she`s not smart enough to keep ahead of her own lies.

GRACE: Why do you think, Robert Dick, that Lee Anthony gave you the phone records?

DICK: You know, that`s a big question in my mind. I mean it`s not.

GRACE: I mean, how did it get brought up? He just walked out of the house with the phone records?

DICK: Well, he knew -- I mean that`s something from an investigator`s standpoint is very important.

GRACE: Yes.

DICK: I mean we want to know who they`re calling. We want to know what`s going on.

GRACE: So you don`t know why he gave them to you?

DICK: I don`t. And that`s what`s troubling. I mean I don`t know why he thought of giving.

GRACE: Has Lee Anthony ever heard -- this is Casey`s brother -- ever heard of Zenaida Gonzalez before?

DICK: Well, if you look back at the police report even Amy says that she was talking with him and it was news to him that had only been brought up in the last 30 days and then he starts swearing to us that it`s been around for a year, year and a half. I mean, it`s all a complete lie.

GRACE: So Leonard Padilla, are you telling me that the brother Lee Anthony is backtracking and changing his story to protect his sister?

PADILLA: I think he`s backtracking to protect himself more than his sister because his involvement goes all of the way back to July 3rd when his mother asked him to go out and find Casey, and if you look on those phone bills there is a call in there that goes back to Lee`s own phone.

So it`s not like he hadn`t seen her, like he said in a couple of statements, in over 30 days. He had, obviously, contacted her. I don`t know if it was just strictly on the phone or in person, but Lee is also the one that talked to parents into not taking a lie detector test after they`d agreed to it and that is very damaging to his credibility from there -- if you have nothing to hide you take a lie detector test.

You`re not going to flunk it. The FBI knows what they`re doing, and there are specialists at that, but when Lee goes back into that house that day and tells the parents don`t take a lie detector test, he`s using that to include himself in not taking the test. He`s the one that didn`t want to take it.

GRACE: Let`s go out to a famed forensic scientist joining us tonight. Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, is it possible additional forensic testing could be ordered at this juncture? Do they have enough of the samples for more testing, do you believe?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, again, there may be other evidence that we haven`t even heard about yet that they may have either tested or perhaps it`s yet to test, but there is certainly sufficient evidence for the state to begin their case.

The charge, of course, would depend upon whether or not they could prove that there was a dead body in the trunk, but there may be evidence that we don`t even know about, we haven`t heard about yet, and that`s a real, real possibility.

GRACE: To Mike Brooks, what do you make of the 911 call from Casey Anthony demanding police to come out right then to make an arrest? That`s a far cry from what happened when Caylee went missing.

MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, you know, they -- maybe we`re making a little bit of progress here, Nancy. It`s the first time -- first thing we`ve ever heard come out of her mouth that was the truth.

You know, so -- but you know, this whole -- circus, if you will, at the Anthony house has got to stop. I mean these people last night they were way out of line, going to the property, banging on the garage door. Police need to come out there and lock somebody up.

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce, tell me about the scuffle at the house last night.

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, right after midnight some protesters started chucking things at the house and turns out that they were coins.

Cindy called police and said it sounded like rocks so the police came out and the protesters scattered, then they left and apparently the protesters came back. They went on to the property. They went and tried to bang on the garage.

George came out and got in an altercation. I believe, one of them actually grabbed him by his shirt and pulled him down the hall -- pulled him down the driveway. It ended with him turning the hose on them.

GRACE: And to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the Anthony home. What is the scene now?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The scene now, Nancy, is that the Guardian Angels actually just showed up and they are the people who wear the red berets. They`re around to keep the peace.

Two of them are posted down at the end of the Anthonys property and two of them are on the driveway. If you can see over my shoulder right here, there is a small group of protesters who are out here. They have their signs.

There is some -- there is one woman who actually has a baby doll with her saying that she can`t have her own children and it just disgusts her that Casey is not looking for her own.

GRACE: You know, Natisha, you`re there every day, has it dawned on Cindy and George Anthony, that if their daughter told the truth the protesters would go home?

LANCE: Well, I think that -- we don`t know what`s going on inside the home, but I do believe that George and Cindy are doing the best that they can to cope with the protesters.

At certain points Cindy has spoken to them. She has heard what they`ve had to say. She heard their frustrations and they`ve gone back and forth. However, what the protesters really want is for Casey to come outside and to help or say something that would help people find Caylee.

GRACE: I don`t think that would help anything for her to come outside.

Everybody, we are taking your calls live.

That was the scene outside the Anthony home, and very quickly, as we go to break a very special happy birthday wish to L.A. friend of the show Simon.

Happy birthday, Simon, and thanks for watching.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY: I didn`t know what to do. At that point, I`m thinking, OK, they haven`t been gone that long. Maybe I can find them. Maybe I can track them down. At first.

SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: They haven`t been gone that long. This is yesterday, right?

ANTHONY: No, that very first day when all of this happened that I went to pick up Caylee and she wasn`t there, initially my thought is that they went out to do something for a little bit.

Maybe I just missed a phone call.

ALLEN: Right.

ANTHONY: Maybe I didn`t get the call or the text message. Maybe something fell through the cracks. It`s happened before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You are hearing audiotapes, mom Casey Anthony`s interrogation by police where she just heaps on the lies and lies and lies.

Mike Brooks, every single thing she told them was a lie. Everything.

BROOKS: Everything, Nancy, and it`s just -- and it`s amazing. It`s amazing the detail she goes into with these lies. It`s just -- you know, the more I hear, the more I just cannot believe what she`s talking about.

It`s just -- you know, but, also, Nancy, we`re talking about the phone records. You know it`s all well and good that we have all the names and all the times, but the thing that is going make this case, I think, or help to make a case against her and put together all of the gaps in this time in this all-important timeline are the locations of the hits, the pings on the cell phone towers from June 9th all the way.

GRACE: Right.

BROOKS: . to the day she was arrested. That is what`s going to help break this case.

GRACE: You are absolutely correct and those phone records from Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter in Sacramento, California. He and his associate Robert Dick set to meet with investigators tonight.





I left out the  O.J. Simpson. news



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