Transcripts August ,September 1- 30, 08

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

More Formal Charges Against Casey Anthony

Aired September 19, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 13 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last 24 hours, new fraud charges come down against mom, Casey. Mom, Casey now facing 71 years behind bars. And there`s been another sighting of little Caylee? Is it legitimate? Mom, Casey, still digging in, refusing to cooperate in any way in the search for her little girl.

Tonight, more bombshell audiotapes released as investigators interrogate potential witnesses all the way out in California. We learn who and why, police zeroing in on an active duty Marine. Private cell phone records reveal mom, Casey, desperate to contact him in California, making late-night and early-morning calls obsessively, text messaging him every day during the time little Caylee goes missing.

The physical search for Caylee at a standstill, as grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony, insist the little girl is in Puerto Rico, Texas or Mexico. Why? What do they know? Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports said investigators want to interview California friends of mom, Casey, one of them Marine Mark Hawkins (ph). He told police Casey Anthony called him in early July to say she was planning a trip to California and needed to tell him something. She told Hawkins her mother and brother know, but she wasn`t sure how he would react.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn`t you call prior to today?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which obviously, I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved or my parents, which I know would have done the same thing -- just the fear of the unknown, fear of the potential of Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three more formal charges just filed against Casey Anthony for a total of 15. She now faces 71 years in jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I started bringing Caylee over to Zenaida`s apartment.

I would usually drop her off. For a few months, we would go over to Jeff`s house. He lived over in Avalon Park. That was a couple years ago, almost a couple of years ago.

I have tried to find out just information from people, going out to different places, like Fusian, Ultra Lounge, and a couple bars that I know Zenaida had gone to downtown before to see if -- just kind of random talk, if anybody had heard about my nanny or talked to her lately.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you tell anyone specifically that Zenaida took your child?

CASEY ANTHONY: The only two people that I specifically told were Jeff and Juliet.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I have nothing to go off of. That`s the problem. I have prospective ideas of maybe where she could go. At the same time, she could`ve gone back up to New York. She could`ve gone up to Jacksonville, where we have a friend, she could`ve gone down to Miami, where her mom and her sister live now.

She was nonchalant with me the morning of. Everything was perfectly fine.

My one goal is, regardless of how it happened -- the thing is, I don`t care. I will lie, I will steal or do whatever I can to find my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...

CASEY ANTHONY: I put that in my statement and I mean that with all of my heart.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams at WNDB. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, in Casey Anthony`s world, it`s something, I have to tell you. And she was at one time apparently planning to make a trip to see a Marine person, a person in the Marine Corps by the name of Mark Hawkins, and basically, she kept texting him from the 16th of June, feverishly, basically, I have something to tell you, and you may not like it.

And it came down to the point, she said in her text, her e-mail messages and on phone calls. that her mother, Cindy, and brother, Lee, knew what she was going to tell him. But she wanted to take that trip out to California to 29 Palms to tell him in person. We don`t know really what that is. He at one time -- Mark Hawkins at one time was a security guard at Universal Studios, where Casey allegedly worked at one time.

Also, a sidebar to the story. There is speculation circulating around the area that the father of little Caylee, missing since -- for the past three months, may have been fathered by a military -- a guy who is currently in the military.

Also just in, three more charges filed against Casey Anthony stemming from her arrest earlier this week, here in Orange County, those checks -- those charges stemming from when she allegedly took the check from her friend, Amy Huizenga. They were in her car. Amy let her borrow her car while Amy went on vacation. We`re now up to 15 formal charges against Casey Anthony, a whopping 71 years in prison if convicted on all charges, Nancy.

GRACE: Mark Williams, yes/no, is she going to be re-arrested on these charges?

WILLIAMS: That`s what happened on Monday. These formal charges...

GRACE: So these are those charges.

WILLIAMS: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: But now they`re formal.

WILLIAMS: Yes, they are very formal.

GRACE: OK. I want to go back to the Marine stationed out in California. So whatever she had to tell him, she had to travel to California to tell him?

WILLIAMS: That`s what she wanted to do. She apparently didn`t have enough -- how shall we say this -- enough gumption to tell him in e-mail or in texting or whatever. She wanted to tell him...

GRACE: Well, that`s amazing...

WILLIAMS: ... in person.

GRACE: ... because according to these phone records, she was texting him first thing in the morning and last thing before she would go to bed at night. And this woman, she would be texting and talking on the phone at the same time. And I mean, have you seen these phone records, to this guy, to that guy, to this guy and that guy, one after the next, some at the same time, to Tony, to Casey -- I mean, it goes on and on and on, to Sean (ph), to -- it`s all at the same time. That`s what I have hard time dealing with.

WILLIAMS: She apparently had -- had -- you know -- liked gentlemen. And she...

GRACE: Does she have any women friends?

WILLIAMS: I don`t think so. Just Amy. And of course, she considered Amy her best friend.

GRACE: The one she stole from?

WILLIAMS: What`s that, Nancy?

GRACE: The one she stole from?

WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes, that`s the only one. And she has obviously has screwed up that relationship big-time.

GRACE: I want to go back to this Marine. Natisha Lance, standing by there at the Anthony home, what more do we know about him? When was he ever in the same physical location with Casey Anthony?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we don`t know exactly when he worked at Universal Studios, Nancy. But what we can tell you is that he is a person who -- he actually contacted authorities and said, Hey, I knew Casey Anthony, just wanted to let you know I was speaking to her on a daily basis and this is the information that she gave me. He also went on to say that he believed that Caylee`s father is someone that Casey had a one-night stand with, and as Mark said, he worked in the military.

GRACE: We now have more bombshell tapes of police interrogation of Casey Anthony. Take a listen. And we`re taking your calls live.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back to your statement. You dropped off your - - you dropped off Caylee on June 9, and walk me through. You dropped her off to go work?

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Get off of work and -- go from there.

CASEY ANTHONY: I got off of work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee, like a normal day. And I show up to the apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers. So I called Zenaida`s cell phone, and it`s out of service. It says that the phone is no longer in service. Excuse me.

So I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if maybe it was just a fluke, if something happened. And time passed. I didn`t hear from anyone. No one showed up to the house. So I went over to Jay Blanchard Park and checked a couple other places where maybe possibly they would`ve gone, a couple stores, just regular places that I know Zenaida shops at and she`s taken Caylee before.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned something before we went on tape about your cell phones.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. I have two phones. I had just received a new phone through work, through Universal. The phone won`t keep charged, so I use my old phone that I actually had gotten again through Universal for work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did you lose the phone?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that phone, you`re saying, was a SIM card and the SIM card had the contact information?

CASEY ANTHONY: Actually, the SIM card is in my Nokia phone, but I know there`s numbers saved to the cell phone itself. So if we get the actual phone, I know I have one other number for Zenaida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they`re not in your SIM card?

CASEY ANTHONY: They`re not saved on the SIM card, they`re saved on the phone. I`ve been trying to figure out on that new phone how to save numbers from the phone to the SIM card and switch them back and forth so that I have everything all in one piece..

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, veteran prosecutor out of Atlanta, joining us in our Manhattan studios, Eleanor Dixon, Penny Douglas Furr, veteran trial lawyer joining us in Atlanta, and Peter Schaeffer, defense attorney out of New York.

Bottom line, Eleanor Dixon, as you were listening to her speak during the police interrogation, did you hear her say, Nobody showed up at the apartment? Police already knew. Nobody had lived in the apartment for months. Of course, nobody showed up!

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: This is a great statement for the prosecutors to use because it shows lie after lie after inconsistency. And it`s so against everything she says.

GRACE: What about it, Penny Douglas Furr? If she`s your client, how do you get her out of all of these lies?

PENNY DOUGLAS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, there`s no doubt she`s a liar, and I would come forward and I`d be the first person to admit she was a liar. And I would just explain that there`s is a long distinction between liar and murderer. A liar is not a murderer...

GRACE: Well, wait a minute! Penny, Penny, Penny, that`s OK if she`s lying about whether it`s raining or snowing outside or her age or something tangential. These are lies about where her daughter is.

FURR: No doubt she`s lying about where she is, but that doesn`t prove that she killed her, Nancy. And I firmly believe if they had evidence that she killed this child, she would be indicted at this point.

GRACE: Did you ever think, Peter Schaeffer, that they`re waiting for more evidence?

PETER SCHAEFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`ve got to be because the evidence they`re releasing now is weaker than the evidence that they had a few weeks ago. At least they had some forensic evidence. Now they`re telling you about interviews they conducted two months ago. Who cares about this guy in California?

GRACE: To Dr. Michael Arnall. What do you make of the hair that is allegedly Caylee`s that indicates she was dead when the hair was left in the trunk?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: That represents strong evidence that Caylee is deceased.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember the phone call you were telling us about? Is that true?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you actually talk with -- what day was that you talked to her?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You remember what time of day?

CASEY ANTHONY: Around noon. It was from a private number.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What did she tell you? What did your daughter say to you?

CASEY ANTHONY: She said, Hi, Mommy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s it?

CASEY ANTHONY: And she started telling me a story, talking to me about her shoes and books.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. So the phone where you have the number saved was lost.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. I filed an incident report.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, how did you end up keeping the SIM card?

CASEY ANTHONY: I had taken it out. I know I left the phone on my desk at work after I`d switched the SIM card back to my old phone because this was the phone that actually would keep charge. I want to be able to have a working phone instead of having a phone that would only stay charged for about a half hour and then it would die and I can`t make any more calls. It`s for me not practical.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So after you -- after you switched the SIM cards on the phone, what?

CASEY ANTHONY: I left it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CASEY ANTHONY: I know I left it on my desk. And I hadn`t been at work for at least three or four days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you said you made a report to Universal or...

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, with security.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When was that?

CASEY ANTHONY: Nine days ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine days ago?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: You don`t have a desk, all right? You don`t have a job. You haven`t had a job in years. You don`t have another cell phone that you switched the SIM card.

You know, to Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective now with Safe Now Project -- Bill, how do the cops contain themselves? They`re listening to all this BS, while the little girl could be getting further and further and further away, or decomposing. And this woman just goes on and on about losing her phone, and she filed an incident report at Universal when it was stolen off her desk. She doesn`t have a desk!

BILL MAJESKI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yes, it`s clearly a very frustrating situation for the police...

GRACE: How do they keep...

WILLIAMS: ... from the very beginning until now.

GRACE: ... a straight face?

MAJESKI: I`m sure they`re not. I`m sure they`re laughing among themselves. But it`s a difficult situation. Apparently, they still do not...

GRACE: I can`t keep a straight face!

MAJESKI: ... have enough evidence to...

GRACE: You know what? Hold on a moment, before I go there. But as I`m listening to her and thinking about all this time, Caylee has either been kidnapped and is being taken away mile after mile after mile as the car turns, or she`s decomposing. Those are our two choices. And the mom is sitting there, droning on and on about where she left her cell phone at work. There is no work, and the cops are just sitting there. I can hardly stand to listen to it.

WILLIAMS: It`s total denial. We can only hope that Caylee was taken away someplace and is still alive. But the other part of this situation is that if, indeed, the police believe that Caylee is dead, they apparently still don`t have a sufficient amount of evidence to go forward with it.

GRACE: OK. Hold on with that theory, Bill Majeski.

MAJESKI: OK.

GRACE: I`m glad you brought that up. Let`s unleash the lawyers again, Eleanor Dixon, Penny Douglas Furr, Peter Schaeffer. You know, Eleanor, you and I prosecuted together many, many years. And bottom line, if you think you`re going to get slapped with a speedy trial demand, you wait. You wait to file that indictment. You wait to take it to the grand jury until you are ready to put 12 in the box, to strike a jury of 12, because, like in this case, the case will probably get better over time. They`ll find out more the longer they have to investigate it.

If they indict right now, formal charges on murder or voluntary manslaughter, they could be forced to trial by the defense under the Constitution in about three months.

DIXON: Well, that`s true, Nancy. In Florida, I believe they have a statutory right to speedy trial. So the prosecutors are going to wait until they have it all locked down.

GRACE: What about that, Penny Douglas Furr?

FURR: Nancy, they should have waited, period, on all of the charges because then they could have kept her talking, they could have kept her confidence. As soon as they indicted her on anything, even the finance charges, she retained an attorney. He told her not to say a word. Then they couldn`t even talk to her. That`s where they lost this case.

GRACE: What about it, Peter Schaeffer?

SCHAEFFER: I don`t know if this woman has ever -- would have ever told the truth about anything. I mean, I still don`t think they have a case against her, but it`s obvious from listening to the tape...

GRACE: Peter?

SCHAEFFER: ... she hasn`t said anything that`s true.

GRACE: Peter, reality check.

SCHAEFFER: Yes?

GRACE: The hair belonging to the little girl in the back of the trunk, the hair has dark rings around it, according to sources, indicating it is post-mortem, after death.

SCHAEFFER: I agree, that evidence is horrific. However, it`s not enough. So you have that. Why haven`t they moved in? Why is she out?

GRACE: And you think that the cops are going to give her a "get out of jail free" pass because she managed to hide the body? I at least think that is their theory.

Let`s go out to the lines. Jill in Maryland. Hi, Jill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.

GRACE: You know what? Thank you very much. Could you pass that on to the defense bar?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, definitely.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, Casey`s mother and father have never gone out themselves to help find little Caylee with the search teams and the individuals that donate their time. But why have they never stopped and actually publicly thanked them for donating their time?

GRACE: You know, Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento -- Leonard, why is that? You know them better than the rest of us.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, I think they`re focused on their immediate situation with Casey, their immediate situation with the protesters outside the house. And I don`t think they give much thought to the rest of the world unless it`s something that agrees with them.

GRACE: Well, I have to say...

PADILLA: They`re very, very focused inwardly.

GRACE: ... as long as they shelter Casey Anthony in that home, their hands are full, all right, Leonard Padilla, with the protesters and the angry group, some would call it a mob, outside the home. The police are called there on a daily basis. And the reality is, they don`t understand why people are so angry. We`re angry because a little girl`s life could be hanging in the balance, or her body is decomposing right now out in a landfill or a swamp somewhere.

PADILLA: Absolutely correct. If they`d have gone along with a situation where they`d have never had Casey taken to that house, if she`d have been removed to a safe house, they wouldn`t have the problems out there.

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, do you think that the brother, Lee, is changing his story? I noticed at the beginning, he was saying he had never heard of nanny Zenaida Gonzalez, but now he`s saying he`s known about her for about a year.

PADILLA: Well, he`s obviously changed his story, and Rob Dick can tell you how many times he`s changed his story since we first met him.

GRACE: Oh, good thought. What about it, Robert Dick?

ROBERT DICK, PROVIDED SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Yes, he`s obviously changed. I mean, from the point of when he was there, you know, anything he could do to help us and telling us things, and down to towards the end there, where he was just flat lying. I mean, he was caught lying to our face.

GRACE: About what?

DICK: Well, for one thing, the attitude that Casey had about this whole thing. I mean, when the air samples came out, I know for a fact from a person that I have inside how she reacted when that came across the news.

GRACE: How did she react?

DICK: It didn`t bother her at all. You know, her comment was that a lot of people have had access to the trunk.

GRACE: You`re kidding?

DICK: And then in talking to Lee, Lee sits there and tells me, sitting across from me, how bad she acted, how upset she was. They almost had to call 911 because of her blood pressure, which is just complete BS.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the playground off to the right if you`re looking at the creek or the river?

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s two playgrounds.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which one did she play at?

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s played at both of them, but usually the bigger one that stops where the "Y" is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right. That`s the one she liked the most?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes because there`s more things to climb on and for her to run around. There`s usually a lot more little kids.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the fact that it was at the check-cashing place is just coincidental because you ran out of gas.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I ran out of gas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not like you went there...

CASEY ANTHONY: It wasn`t on purpose.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to cash a check.

CASEY ANTHONY: No, I...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn`t go...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... didn`t go...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to the store...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... there to cash a check. No, I didn`t go into the store.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: I wasn`t abandoning my car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: It just happened circumstantially I ran out of gas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: I had to call my boyfriend, Tony, to come and pick me up.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: It`s awfully early in the morning to run out of gas. Wasn`t her car spotted there at 7:00 AM, Leonard Padilla?

PADILLA: Correct. It was there at 7:00 AM. And to add something to that, there was a situation where somebody here mentioned about Mark Hawkins saying that there was another...

GRACE: The Marine?

PADILLA: ... military guy or something? Well, there`s a Brandon Snow (ph) that was a friend of hers that other people have alleged could be the father that went up to North Carolina recently. I think he`s in the Army.

But getting back to the car running out of gas, it was there out of gas at 7:00 AM. She`s on the phone to the Marine 11:00, 11:30 the night before. Last calls she made the night before were to the Marine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WELLS: It`s important that you tell me, I mean maybe there`s something in what she said that can help us figure out where she is. What did she say?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: I tried to ask her where she was.

WELLS: OK.

ANTHONY: And she just kept talking about the book that she`s been reading. We have videos of her reading the story. She was telling me the story.

SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: So she seemed happy.

(CROSSTALK)

ANTHONY: Fine.

ALLEN: Seemed fine, seemed happy.

ANTHONY: She seemed perfectly fine. There was nothing in the background.

ALLEN: Telling you about a book, telling you she -- no sign of any type of stress at all?

ANTHONY: Not at all.

ALLEN: Great. That`s wonderful. Now let me ask you a question. Your daughter hasn`t seen you in over a month, and she`s not.

ANTHONY: She was excited. She was excited to talk to me. But at the same time, it`s crazy that she didn`t get upset when she talked to me which.

ALLEN: Yes.

ANTHONY: . had it been my mom, I know it would have been totally different.

ALLEN: Is that another thing that makes sense to you?

ANTHONY: She never gets upset when she talks to me, whether I haven`t seen her for an entire day or I had to work late at night, I didn`t see her almost an entire day until the next morning.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. More of those bombshell audiotapes released of the police interrogation of mom, Casey Anthony.

Out to the lines, Alexa in Texas. Hi, Alexa.

ALEXA, TEXAS RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for keeping this case in the forefront.

GRACE: Thank you for calling in. What`s your question, dear?

ALEXA: I was wondering about Lee Anthony, her brother. Is there any way that he can be hauled in front of a grand jury and forced to reveal what he knows about his sister?

GRACE: Out to the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Penny Douglass Furr, Peter Schaffer.

Penny, there is no brother-sister privilege that would protect their communications.

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s true, Nancy. He can be called to the grand jury, and he would have to testify truthfully.

GRACE: Eleanor?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Yes, he would have to, but he could always take the fifth if he was involved in something.

GRACE: Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute.

Peter Schaffer, just because she may have confided in him, there is no duty under the law to go forward voluntarily and tell cops what you know.

PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. I mean, there is a crime called misprisonel of felony. But it`s never really charged. But -- I mean he wouldn`t testify without -- you know having immunity, I would imagine.

GRACE: But just being told something, Penny Douglass Furr, that you don`t get charged for knowing about a murder or about a kidnapping. You don`t get charged for that.

DOUGLASS FURR: Definitely not.

GRACE: Now if you actively lie to police, that would be obstruction of justice.

DOUGLASS FURR: If you interfered with the investigation and you talked to the police and you were untruthful with them.

GRACE: Right.

DOUGLASS FURR: But if she just confided in him, there would be no privilege and he would have to testify if he was called to the grand jury.

GRACE: I want to go back to Mark Williams at WNDB Newstalk 1150.

Mark, what can you tell me about an alleged Caylee sighting?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: We`ve had two Caylee sightings within the past -- just over the past couple days. The first one was in Deltona in Volusia County. And both sightings took place there. One at a gas station, somebody thought they saw Caylee, they jotted down the license number, called police.

Police went to the house. They talked to the parents. The parents produced a birth certificate. Took a couple pictures. It was not Caylee. Close, but no cigar.

A second one, deputies surrounding a house late one night after they -- somebody called the sheriff`s office, telling them that they thought they saw Caylee. They knocked on the door, went into the house, woke up the little girl. This girl was 5 years old. Her name was Caylee, but her name began with a K instead of a C.

Again, case closed on that one.

GRACE: Tell me how -- how was there such a mix up?

WILLIAMS: You know, little girls, as you know, look a lot like each other. And there`s a lot of little girls out there, 3 to 5 years of age. Some of them have a lot of the same facial features until they grow older.

It`s tough to say. But, you know, people are out there on the street looking for Caylee Anthony right now, and nobody can seem to find her, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, joining us right now is the father of one of the little girls mistaken for missing tot Caylee Anthony.

Mr. Putkowski, thank you for being with us.

MICHAEL PUTKOWSKI, DAUGHTER WRONGLY IDENTIFIED AS MISSING TOT: Good evening, Mrs. Grace.

GRACE: What happened?

PUTKOWSKI: I was at the gas station, and a woman engaged my daughter in some conversation and was trying to get her to say her name. But my daughter wouldn`t say her name.

GRACE: And?

PUTKOWSKI: And I guess the woman jotted down my tag number and was in about, I`d say two hours, the Volusia County Sheriff`s Office was at my house.

GRACE: So this woman thought -- took it upon herself to call police and report the conversation she had with your little girl?

PUTKOWSKI: Correct, ma`am.

GRACE: Where were you guys at the time -- where was the gas station?

PUTKOWSKI: The gas station is about a half a mile from my house. But I didn`t go right home, because I had to pick up my oldest daughter from school.

GRACE: With me, everybody, is Michael Putkowski. His daughter mistaken for little Caylee.

So the cop show up on your front porch. What -- was that.

PUTKOWSKI: Yes, I was kind of -- I was kind of shocked by the whole thing. And they did a real good job -- you know, like I said, within two hours, they`re at the house, investigating and everything and Sheriff Don Johnson and his crew did an excellent job.

GRACE: Now, Mr. Putkowski, tell me again -- where is your -- where is the gas station in relation to where the Anthonys live?

PUTKOWSKI: I live in a community about 40 miles northeast of where the Caylee`s house is.

GRACE: You just saw another photo from an alleged sighting of little Caylee. As you can see, people all over the state of Florida and beyond on the lookout for little Caylee.

This is another -- this is the first missighting. This is Caylee here. Let`s see the missighting photo, Elizabeth, where it was reported little Caylee have been spotted.

So did cops insist on seeing your daughter?

PUTKOWSKI: No, no, they conducted everything real professionally. And they just wanted the facts, and they come in, and it was obvious to the deputy that my daughter was not Caylee. And she took pictures. And we -- we presented them with all of the other extra information as far as the birth certificate and all of that.

GRACE: Everybody, with me is Michael Putkowski, his daughter mistaken for little Caylee. This shows you how people are interested, how people care about the case, how people want to find little Caylee.

Another sighting goes bust.

Mr. Putkowski, thank you for being with us. Let`s take a listen to more of those audiotapes of the police interrogation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELICH: Do you have any of these phone numbers programmed into your SIM card that you kept into your other phone?

ANTHONY: No, I do not.

MELICH: How long did you have this old phone?

ANTHONY: I`ve had the Nokia for almost a full year.

MELICH: OK. So after a full year of dealing with Zenaida and having her babysit, you don`t remember.

ANTHONY: Switching the numbers back and forth. Zenaida`s number has changed a couple different times. She switched services between having Sprint and having AT&T or Cingular.

MELICH: What about Jeffrey? You`ve known him for at least four years.

ANTHONY: His numbers changed a couple different times from when he moved from Orlando up to North Carolina and back down to Jacksonville. I know I do have a current number for him.

MELICH: How would you get that number?

ANTHONY: If we can find that other phone or I might have it online, I may be able to access it off the Internet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Dr. Glass, thank you for being with us. Have you noticed that all of her explanations are extremely elaborate?

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "I KNOW WHAT YOU`RE THINKING": Yes, Nancy. And you brought that up earlier. That was very astute of you, because that`s what people who lie do. And when you listen to the tape, she goes on and on, and she gives a little bit too much information and too much detail. That`s off on a tangent. And that signifies lying.

Also, it`s very significant, it`s the tone of her voice. It`s very monotonous. Very matter of fact. And that`s causing concern, as well.

GRACE: What does that mean to you?

GLASS: Well, it means that she doesn`t have a lot of emotion tied into this. You wonder if indeed there is some sociopathy going on. Is she a socio path or what? The voice certainly tells a lot.

GRACE: Out to Robert Dick and Leonard Padilla, joining us from Sacramento.

Robert Dick, you met with police. They traveled all the way up to California to see you. Why?

ROBERT DICK, FORMER HEAD OF SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Well, to explain the difference in the story, where it changed in the park, as well as my interaction with her.

GRACE: And you were telling us about her reaction when it was revealed the air sample in her car trunk revealed human decomposition. Repeat that, please.

DICK: Well, I was told from the person that we had with her inside the house -- we were in communication. And it was related to me that it didn`t bother her, and that she showed no emotion over it when she saw it on the news, which was in contradiction to when I brought it up the same day later with Lee.

Lee gave a completely different picture of it.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, they also met with you about what?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Basically, the same thing. They wanted to know the difference between the story where she turned the baby over at the Saw Grass Apartments to Zenaida versus what her mother and she told me about Blanchard Park.

GRACE: Everybody, a quick break. We are taking your calls, but as we go to break, a very happy 87th birthday to the number one fan of the show, Evelyn Addison.

Happy 60th anniversary to (INAUDIBLE) Georgia friends of the show, Betty and Morris Gaines(ph). Betty Gaines was the first female deputy in all of Georgia.

Everybody, these three never miss a show.

Happy anniversary and happy birthday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLEN: I want to go through this, and I want you to stop me at the part that isn`t the truth, OK?

You take your daughter and you drop her off on June the 9th. OK? At somebody -- at a babysitter`s house. OK? Now this is a babysitter that lives at this apartment, OK? That`s been vacant.

ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.

ALLEN: OK.

ALLEN: You just waked her -- you dropped her off.

ANTHONY: I walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times, besides just that day.

ALLEN: OK. And when you dropped her off, who took her at that point?

ANTHONY: Zani did. She took her that point.

ALLEN: So you left her in Zani`s care on June the 9th, OK? So far that`s right?

ALLEN: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And no one named Zenaida Gonzalez ever lived at those apartments, much less in that vacant apartment.

We are taking your calls live.

Back to Mark Williams at WNDB. I want to talk to you about this incident report with the Orange County Sheriff`s Office. It says that Casey Anthony was planning a trip to California. That she needed to tell this marine, Mark Hawkins, something that she had already told her mother and brother, and, quote, "she did not know how he would react about what she had to tell him."

Now, this is while little Caylee is missing.

Who is this guy, and why does she have to travel all the way to California? At the time she should be looking for Caylee.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, she`s had that 31-day search for Caylee, she says. But one thing I do want to correct is Mark Hawkins never worked at Universal Studios.

GRACE: Right.

WILLIAMS: However he had heard that Caylee`s father was a security guard.

GRACE: Father was a security guard. Yes. Just there`s so many rumors about who the baby daddy is.

WILLIAMS: You need a Philadelphia lawyer.

GRACE: You know, I`ve given up on that. And I`ll tell you who knows. George and Cindy Anthony know. You cannot have her march in one day and say, guess what, I`m pregnant. And then I`ll say, who`s the father? Of course, she probably lied to them, too, so.

WILLIAMS: Yes. And here`s the other thing, Nancy, is that the news almost had to be terrible that she may have been telling him, again, this is just speculation.

GRACE: I have something I have to tell you and I can`t tell you on the telephone?

WILLIAMS: Yes, all of a sudden you`re the father.

GRACE: My stars, she texted him morning, noon and night obsessively. Why couldn`t she just -- why?

WILLIAMS: You know, who knows? I mean I would have gotten on an airplane and gone to California or met at a halfway place someplace in like, Carnie, Nebraska, saying, let`s meet someplace, I have something to tell you.

You know but she never had the means, really, to go any place, because, you know, she was allegedly stealing from Amy Huizinga. She was allegedly stealing from her parents. And I think a trip to California was just one of her Web of lies, Nance.

GRACE: To Bonnie in Nevada, hi, Bonnie.

BONNIE, NEVADA RESIDENT: Hi, thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

BONNIE: I would like to know if the little girl was ever issued a Social Security card, and if so, has there been activity on it or a passport issued?

GRACE: Interesting.

Natisha Lance, what do we know?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, we do know that she has a birth certificate, so we can assume that she probably has a Social Security card. As far as a passport, no, there has been no indication that Caylee actually had a passport.

GRACE: To our Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified pathologist, joining us ought of Denver. You know, Dr, Arnall, we all know the DNA results, the lab testing should have been in a long, long time ago.

I believe they had around 30 pieces of evidence to test? Unless they have DNA of little Caylee, what more could they possibly hope for?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: In terms of -- are you asking in terms of.

GRACE: Correct. Yes, in terms of proving the case.

ARNALL: My guess would be that they still have a hope of finding a body. There`s been some discussion of shovels used. If the -- if the child`s body is buried, there is still a chance that if they find that body, it may be moderately well-preserved, even at this time.

GRACE: You know, to Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective and now a (INAUDIBLE), I think Arnall is right. I think they`re holding out to find her remains.

BILL MAJESKI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Well, that`s a real possibility. That is certainly something that`s open to them, but as a couple of your guests mentioned, you know, there is -- an amount of time that they can now use to further their investigation in terms of talking to people.

In terms of this -- all of these text messages where she said she had to go out to California, I look at that, and I say that all she wanted to do was get a free trip out to California, hoping that he would say, well, let me send you the money, if it`s that important, come on out here and fly out and tell me what`s going on.

And she would have nothing to say to him. I`m not quite sure that he`s as much of a connection to this whole thing as a lot of people are starting think so.

GRACE: Yes, you know what, Bill? It`s probably just another lie, another guy she`s going to go live with or mooch off, like this whole list we see in these cell phone records.

Everybody, a quick break, and tonight, CNN HEROES.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.

WALT PETERS, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: All right. There we go. God speed. Come home safe. We love you all.

If it wasn`t for our soldiers and our veterans, we would not have this beautiful country. They are our freedom. It`s important that they know how proud this country is of them for their service.

My name is Walt Peters, and I`m often the last person a soldier sees when he boards a plane.

Be safe, we love you and take care.

And I`m often the first person they see when they return.

Welcome home, young man. We`re proud of you.

A friend got me involved with greeting the flights through the Red Cross. Now I`m one of the leaders, and I train my volunteers.

Three miles out, let`s go. Pull the wheels down.

When the soldiers come through, I walk around and talk with the soldiers.

Guys, it`s so good to have you all back home. I`m a combat veteran. I serve a lot of time in Vietnam. They know I can relate to them.

If you stay scared, you stay alive. You know what I`m saying?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, sir.

PETERS: Sometimes it breaks your heart because you ask yourself, which one of these beautiful people are not coming home.

I see the roots of our country and our future in every one of these soldiers.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved, CNN.com/heroes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtroom. Take a look at the stories and more important the people who touched our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Casey Anthony back behind bars for yet the third time. Will it stick?

WILLIAMS: Well, Casey got her third get out of jail free card today.

GRACE: Ridiculous.

WILLIAMS: Hey, you know, no doubt about it, but she`s allowed to do that (INAUDIBLE) bail bondsman posting $1250 to get her out of jail free.

GRACE: Audiotape just released of police interrogating mom Casey Anthony about the disappearance of her little girl, 3-year-old Caylee Anthony.

MELICH: Did you cause any injury to you child Caylee?

ANTHONY: No, sir.

MELICH: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried if we find that out that people are going to look at you a wrong way?

ANTHONY: No, sir.

MELICH: You`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and haven`t returned her.

ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.

GRACE: Tonight with us, bounty hunter from California, Leonard Padilla. Your theory is there is an accomplice. What`s your theory and why?

PADILLA: Well, the situation is that she ran out of gas at the check cashing store on the 26th.

GRACE: Right.

PADILLA: And there was a tremendous amount of communication on her phone on the evening of the 26th and also on the 27th, when she called her boyfriend to come pick her up, that the car had run out of gas. And it goes on into the 28th, then it stops. So there had to be somebody giving her a hand at that time.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant Shaun Tousha, 30, Hull, Texas, killed, Iraq, on a third tour. A country boy, loved outdoors, playing horseshoes, riding bulls, football and dancing.

Leaves behind grieving aunt and uncle, Deb and Chester, widow, Cristy, two children, Colton and Maycee.

Shaun Tousha, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, a special good night from the New York control room. Take a look. There`s Brandon. There`s Brett, Elizabeth, Rosy, a.k.a. evil, oh and Stacy.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Easter, and until then, good night, friend.

END
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/19/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Father of Casey Anthony`s Ex-Fiance Speaks Out

Aired September 22, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 14 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Is there a new and legitimate Caylee sighting? Tips lead investigators north to Tennessee. Does grainy surveillance video from a local McDonald`s catch 3-year-old Caylee and mom, Casey, just before Caylee goes missing? And a man accused of fathering little Caylee -- that`s right, the man named by mom, Casey, as Caylee`s biological father -- we hear his family`s story on little Caylee exclusively tonight, and along with that, a highly disturbing web of lies by mom, Casey, that they experienced.

She now faces 71 years behind bars on multiple fraud charges. And more bombshell audiotapes released of mom, Casey`s, police interrogation, the state`s attorney now investigating trust funds set up to find Caylee. And why did the Anthonys abruptly cancel the candlelight vigil? Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The family of Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance is breaking their silence tonight, speaking out. And Nancy Grace obtains exclusive new photos showing mother, Casey Anthony, like you`ve never seen her. Will these pictures show insight into the mindset of tot mom Casey Anthony? And more interrogation tapes, as we hear Anthony`s web of lies unraveling.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everything you`ve told me is a lie, correct?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: Not everything that I told you.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: You`re not telling me where she`s at.

CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (DELETED) know where she`s at!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I`m not sitting here (DELETED) crying every two seconds!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) purposely (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You purposely misled us...

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I got arrested on a (DELETED) limb (ph) today.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you telling me that this is the story you want to stick with?

CASEY ANTHONY: It`s the truth. It`s the story I`m going to stick with, yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, police on high alert for four little children in extreme danger, Missouri.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police also searching for their mom, 39-year-old Shirley Riggs (ph). Riggs had a visit with her kids over the weekend and never returned them. They range in age from 14 to 7. Police say she fled to Oregon once before, and may be doing it again. They say she was afraid of losing custody at a hearing scheduled for earlier today. A warrant was issued for her arrest, with bond set at $500,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tonight, Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance`s family is speaking out, breaking their silence with Nancy Grace. This, as exclusive new photos released showing the tot mom like you`ve never seen her before.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: It is the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s not the truth. You need to tell...

CASEY ANTHONY: Absolutely the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not the truth. We can`t get past that unless you go ahead and tell us the truth.

CASEY ANTHONY: There`s nothing to get past because that is the truth.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s (DELETED) (INAUDIBLE) that I`m saying. (DELETED detectives (DELETED) (DELETED)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I do not know where she is. The last person that I saw her with was Zenaida.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) sitting in, oh, the jail?

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure you do.

CASEY ANTHONY: If I knew (INAUDIBLE) any sense where she was, this wouldn`t be happening at all.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I just watched the (DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: This is so heart-wrenching because there was never a sign...

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I called to talk to my mother and it`s a (DELETED) waste. Oh, by the way, I don`t want any of you coming up here when I have my first hearing for bond and everything else. Like, don`t even (DELETE) waste your time coming up.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, my God. Calling you guys -- a waste, a huge waste.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She always seemed like she had a smile on her face. You know, if there was laundry to be done, she would take of that. I think one night, she made pasta for everyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In these surveillance photos, a young girl resembling Caylee Anthony is seen inside a McDonald`s restaurant in Murfreesboro, Tennessee, on July 10.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I just want my daughter back.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk. What is the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Nancy, well, you are going to make news on your very own show tonight. The father of Casey Anthony`s ex- fiance, Jesse Grund, will be breaking his silence for literally the first time on nationwide TV. He`ll tell you more about Casey Anthony`s web of lies, such as at one time, when Casey was pregnant, she told Jesse that he was the father. It turned out not to be true. Unbelievable stuff, Nancy.

Secondly, the fiance had a paternity test performed, and it showed that he was not the father. But he fell in love with little Caylee. And then thirdly, you`ll show some very rare pictures of Jesse Grund, Caylee, and of course, Casey Anthony, all together.

GRACE: Yes, we`re showing those right now.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: With us tonight, everyone, is a very special guest. We are very happy to have with us Richard Grund. This is the father of Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance, Jesse Grund. We`ve all heard a lot about Jesse Grund. A lot of people have pointed the finger at him as being involved in Caylee`s disappearance.

I`ve got right here with me the police copy of Grund speaking with them freely and voluntarily. He voluntarily immediately signed up for a polygraph test and passed.

Sir, thank you for being with us.

RICHARD GRUND, FATHER OF CASEY`S EX-FIANCE, JESSE: Thank you, Nancy, for having me.

GRACE: What was your first reaction when you learned little Caylee was missing?

GRUND: Shock, distraught, and just complete bewilderment.

GRACE: How did your son, who by all accounts is a fine young man -- how did he get tangled up with Casey Anthony?

GRUND: Well, thank you for that compliment. The same way everybody else does. You see something in Casey that makes you want to like her, makes you want to love her, makes you want to overlook the lies and the problems. He met her at Universal Studios, when he was doing loss prevention, and she was actually working at Kodak during that time.

GRACE: And what happened?

GRUND: They met. They dated briefly. She kind of scared him away with the immediate word "Love", I`m in love with you, within two weeks and latched on, and it kind of scared him away and they broke up.

GRACE: You know, that seems like a recurring issue that she has, immediately moves in with someone, immediately is there every single night, is in love, the whole shebang. Now, let`s get right down to the brass tacks. How did it come about that Casey Anthony names Jesse Grund, your son, as the bio dad of little Caylee?

GRUND: Well, of course, we`d have to start with the fact that they got together and were intimate. They broke up. And Casey actually showed up at our house. First time I met Casey was summer of `05. I want to say June. She helped my younger son get a job at Kodak. I spotted right then and there she was pregnant, but she was telling everybody she had female problems and she wasn`t pregnant.

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wait. You could tell she was pregnant, but she denied she was pregnant?

GRUND: Yes. Yes, Nancy. the minute my son came in and I asked who was that, and he told me that, That`s Casey, the girl that I dated briefly, and I said, Well, son, she`s pregnant. Oh, no, no, she`s only got female problems. I asked her about that, that`s what she`s told everybody, including her family. And I said, No, I know a woman who`s pregnant, and she was pregnant.

GRACE: Then what happened?

GRUND: Well, about a month later, he gets a phone call from her and she says, I need to talk to you. But Jesse is in the middle of a seminar for a new job. He says, I can`t talk to you right now, send me a text message. And so while he`s sitting there in the middle of this seminar, he gets a text message says, I`m pregnant and you`re the father. That`s it.

So he calls us up, tells us the situation. He`s a little embarrassed because he knows, based on our values, this is really not something I want to hear on the other end of the telephone. But he`s my son and I love him and I`ll support him. And he immediately steps up and says, I`m going to take responsibility for my actions.

He meets with Casey and basically says, Look, both of us are too young to be parents. Let`s put this baby up for adoption to somebody who wants a baby that can`t have one. And Casey said, That`s not an option, that`s not going to happen. So Caylee is born August of `05, as we know. Jesse gets the call the minute she`s born, goes to the hospital and requests a paternity test, which we had all said, Best thing to do before you put your name on the birth certificate, let`s make sure you`re really the father.

GRACE: Now, let me ask you about the birth certificate. With us is Richard Grund. He is the father of Jesse Grund. Was he a -- in law enforcement?

GRUND: No. Well, actually, at that time, he was in loss prevention at Universal Studios.

GRACE: Yes. Did he go into law enforcement?

GRUND: Yes, he did. He went to the police academy and was with the Orlando Police Department for a brief period of time and then came to the mutual conclusion that maybe being a police officer...

GRACE: Was not for him.

GRUND: ... was not for him.

GRACE: Now, at the time Caylee was born, it`s my understanding that Casey Anthony wanted to put his name on the birth certificate.

GRUND: Almost immediately.

GRACE: And what happened?

GRUND: He said, No, let`s wait and do a paternity test first.

GRACE: Did she want a paternity test?

GRUND: No, she did not. She was actually angry with him about it.

GRACE: And said?

GRUND: That she just didn`t want -- didn`t want to do it. But she had no choice.

GRACE: Everybody, you are seeing photos Mr. Grund provided to us. This is baby Caylee shortly after her birth.

Now, your son, even after he learned he was not the father, the bio dad, he wanted to raise little Caylee as his own. And in fact, Casey, to my understanding, would leave Caylee at your home from early in the morning until late in the day all the time.

GRUND: Well, not all the time, but during the period of time where she lost her regular baby-sitter, Jesse would watch her one day and then we would watch her another couple of days during the week. But most of the time, Casey and Caylee were at our house. She spent as much time as she could with us.

GRACE: Did you learn whether mom, Casey, actually had a job? Where was she going?

GRUND: Up until April of `06, she actually was going to Universal and working at one of the Kodak kiosks, you know, shops there...

GRACE: Right.

GRUND: ... for taking pictures. So she actually did have a job up until April `06.

GRACE: Taking pictures? Excuse me. She did what?

GRUND: You know, some of the rides people come off and they have their picture taken, and then they convince you to buy the ride (ph) of how silly you look as you come down? Well, that`s what she would do for Kodak.

GRACE: What happened to event planning?

GRUND: Yes, it wasn`t a part of her life then.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zenaida give you any money that day?

GRUND: No. I would not have sold my daughter. If I wanted to really just get rid of her, I would have left her with my parents and I would have left. I would have moved out. I would have given my mom custody.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s had at least three different phone numbers in the last almost four years that I`ve met her. And I know that she was on two different phone plans at...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) she`s lived in...

CASEY ANTHONY: ... two different times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... two different places since...

CASEY ANTHONY: Well...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that you know of?

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s lived at a couple of places.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since she`s been watching your child?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, she`s lived just in Orlando since I`ve met her. But she had just moved here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At Andover Lakes she lived -- was she watching your baby there?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.



GRACE: With us tonight, a very special guest. Jesse Grund was accused of being the biological father of little Caylee. In fact, mom, Casey, insisted he put his name on Caylee`s birth certificate. He demanded a paternity test. With us tonight, his father, Richard Grund.

Mr. Grund, how did your son react when he learned he was not the biological father?

GRUND: Well, it was eight weeks after Caylee was born, and by then he was emotionally invested. And while most guys would have been happy, he was emotionally devastated.

GRACE: Who`s the father?

GRUND: What Casey told Jesse was that the father was a one-night- stand who, apparently, a year later, dies in some mysterious car accident. And so the answer to your question is nobody really knows, except for Casey.

GRACE: Do you buy that story?

GRUND: About the one-night-stand and the car accident? No, I don`t.

GRACE: What do you think?

GRUND: I think it`s somebody that she either doesn`t want people to know or doesn`t want that person to know that they were the father.

GRACE: Did your son have any idea she was having a relationship with somebody else at the same time she was with him?

GRUND: That didn`t happen until just at the end of their engagement, and he found that out after the fact. I kind of found it out on my own almost immediately. It didn`t take much of an effort to go to her MySpace page and see comments from somebody else that were a little bit too affectionate, and then go to his page and see a comment that says, It`s official, I miss you, two months before they break up. So it was kind of the beginning of the pattern. Casey always has the next person lined up before she moves on.

GRACE: So she`s always one step ahead of everybody.

GRUND: It would seem that that`s her pattern. As I was discussing with Mark, I think Casey lives in her own reality. And in that reality, she -- it`s almost like her own TV show. You know the movie "The Truman Show," where everybody -- this guy was living a real life, but it was a fake life? I think that`s Casey. And I think that`s why we`re not getting the answers that we want because she`s in her own reality.

GRACE: Did she stay on good terms with Jesse?

GRUND: After the break-up, they didn`t talk for 10 months, which is understandable. But then Jesse kind of realized, If I shut Casey out, I shut Caylee out. So they began to speak again. They began to become friends again. And then, actually, in November of `07, they tried to date again to see if maybe they could make it work, but it didn`t.

GRACE: When you first learned of little Caylee`s disappearance, what did you believe happened?

GRUND: I had two theories, which I shared with George Anthony and I also shared with law enforcement and also Leonard Padilla. My first theory was, Casey seemed to be breaking ties with her mother. To do that, she needed her own financial source. She might have gotten involved in something that went bad and they had taken the child. Or something happened by accident and Casey cracked.

GRACE: Casey cracked. But you know, with your theories, how do you explain the saturated air of chloroform in the air of the trunk and the Web searches on her computer for chloroform?

GRUND: Well, what I think -- and again, this is just my opinion and speculation. Something happens to cause Casey`s life to spiral out of control. I`m going to give away my age here. When I was growing up, I used to watch Ed Sullivan, and there was this guy that had this act where he`d spin plates on a bowl and he`d have to move to the next pole and go back to the first pole, and eventually, all the plates would crash. Something happened in Casey`s life to cause the plates to crash because up until May and June of `08, her controlled mess of a life was running fine.

GRACE: Isn`t it true that your son agreed right up front to take a polygraph?

GRUND: Yes. He`s agreed with anything and everything law enforcement...

GRACE: And he passed.

GRUND: Yes, he did.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. With me is the family, the father of Jesse Grund, accused of being Caylee`s biological father.

To Abbie in New York. Hi, Abbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey, Nancy. How`re you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I have a question that comes from me and my three granddaughters.

GRACE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK? We want to know about the script. Has anyone seen the script that she was supposedly given to tell the police for 30 days? And where is it?

GRACE: Straight out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter in Sacramento, California, who has become part of this case when he first put up the bond for Casey Anthony, $500,000. What about that script? You and your security team are familiar with one of the stories Casey Anthony told, that she was in Jay Blanchard Park with Zenaida Gonzalez, the nanny -- doesn`t exist -- and her sister, Samantha. And they put Caylee in their car and said, Here, here`s a script for you to tell people about for 30 days after we have Caylee. And they left. What about the script? Has anybody ever found the script?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: If such a script exists, neither myself nor Rob Dick nor anybody on -- in my group of people have seen it.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney Doug Burns. Out of New York, Christopher Amolsch joining us, veteran trial lawyer out of Washington D.C. What about that? Don`t you think that`ll be a little problem for your client, Doug Burns, the script she claims the nanny gave her? Whoops! I guess the dog ate the homework.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, no. There`s no question about it. I mean, it`s not only just the script, the whole series of statements that she`s made amounts to what prosecutors are going to call consciousness of guilt. The only defense point at this in this investigation, though, is they`re really sort of between probable cause and beyond a reasonable doubt.

GRACE: Christopher?

CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree with Doug. I mean, Doug`s spot on. I mean, the longer she keeps talking, the more that comes out, the more lies that come out. They just don`t have enough to charge her with it right now, and I don`t know if they ever are going to, to be honest with you.

GRACE: I want to go back to Richard Grund, the father of Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance, Jesse Grund. Mr. Grund, do you believe there is any chance Caylee is still alive?

GRUND: According to my beliefs, I walk by faith and not by sight. So until I know for sure, absolutely beyond a doubt that Caylee is gone, then I will hold out the hope that she`s going to come home.

GRACE: You can`t even bring yourself to say dead, the word dead, can you.

GRUND: Well, again, in my opinion, Caylee`s either going to come home or she`s already gone home.



GRUND: My one goal is, happened regardless of how it happened, the thing is, I don`t care. I will lie, I will steal or do whatever I can to find my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well...

CASEY ANTHONY: I put that in my statement, and I mean that with all of my heart.





CASEY ANTHONY: Even with the boyfriend that Zenaida had last year...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: ... I saw him maybe twice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: right.

CASEY ANTHONY: They only dated a couple months. It was never anything serious. She never had him around Caylee or the other children she baby-sat, so it was never an uncomfortable situation. But this is so heart-wrenching because there was never a sign, never a single sign that this was going to happen.



GRACE: That is mom, Casey Anthony, in new recordings released of the police interrogation of Casey Anthony. She is referring to what many people believe to be an imaginary nanny named Zenaida Gonzalez.

Back to the father of Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance. Richard Grund is with us. Did you ever are know of this nanny, see her, talk to her, hear of her?

GRUND: I never saw her or spoke to her, but I did hear of her. I heard of her in April of `06, when Casey lost her regular baby-sitter. As I said, Jesse would watch her. I would watch her. She tried to get my high-school-age son to watch her, which meant I watched her because I have an office in my home.

Finally, one day when Casey came home from work to wait for Jesse and hang out with us, I kind of greeted her at the door with, What are we going to do about this baby-sitter thing? And she says, I found one. I have a nanny. Her name is Zanny, and I got her from Jeffrey Hopkins, who has a son named...

GRACE: But none of that is true. Jeffrey Hopkins says that`s not true.



CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: What`s the reason you didn`t call the police before? Since right now we`re here because your grandparents or your parents asked you about the child, and they were concerned and didn`t get an answer as to where the child was, they called the sheriff`s office.

Why didn`t you call prior to today?

CASEY ANTHONY: I think part of me was naive enough to think that I could handle this myself, which, obviously, I couldn`t. And I was scared that something would happen to her if I did notify the authorities or got the media involved or my parents, which I know was dumb to think that -- just fear of the unknown.

Fear of the potential Caylee getting hurt, of not seeing my daughter again.



NANCY GRACE, HOST: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. We are taking your calls live.

With us tonight, the father of Casey Anthony`s ex, accused of being the biological father of little Caylee.

Out to the lines, Lucy in South Carolina. Hi, Lucy.

LUCY, SOUTH CAROLINA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Ironically, my question speaks in the same vein as Mr. Grund and your guest.

GRACE: OK.

LUCY: With -- I`m an RN with psychiatrist nursing experience, and I notice in all of the interviews with Casey that she keeps mentioning that she can`t wrap her -- brain around this, and that she has this horrible fear of not ever seeing her daughter again, and she repeats about how she can`t accept that she won`t ever see the child again.

Why couldn`t it be -- Mr. Grund talks about this traumatic experience. That she was asleep, and the child got in the pool and drowned. And when she found the child and couldn`t revive her, she just snapped, and she blocked it out of her mind, and she went and buried her and put her in the car and took her and buried her somewhere, which would have account for the stuff in the car, the chloroform in the car, or whatever.

And that she just can`t wrap her brain around it, and she`s just gone off into some fantasy. She can`t face her mother.

GRACE: OK, Lucy -- are you possibly mistaking chlorine in a swimming pool for the deadly narcotic chloroform?

LUCY: Well, that could have been drugs. I don`t know. But.

GRACE: No. No, no, no. That is drugs. And Lucy, stay with me. How in your scenario would her multiple Web site searches on chloroform fit into the swimming pool accident theory?

LUCY: You`re doing premeditation. Yes. I can see that.

GRACE: OK. So are you saying it does not fit?

LUCY: I guess not. I just.

GRACE: OK. I know. And Lucy, I`m going to go to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." I understand what Lucy in South Carolina is doing.

When you suspect a mom of murder, you look for reasons, why. Why would she do this? Is there any other explanation, other than cold, calculated murder? Why?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": Well, I wish Lucy`s theory was true. But as I listen to Mr. Grund, I think that Casey`s lying is actually a form of thievery amongst other things.

She wants Jesse Grund of the capacity to decide whether he wants to date a pregnant woman or whether or not he wants to bond to a child that may or may not be his. She steals men`s hearts by lying. She steals her mother -- from her mother, robs from her mother, the capacity to spend time with the granddaughter.

She steals this little girl`s future in her life. As the investigators are asking her questions, she steals precious moments that could be used to find her daughter. It`s a grand form of thievery and manipulation.

Even those 9-11 calls, she`s using words like surveillance and there`s an altercation and we`ve had an incident. She robs a few moments of glory to pretend she is a part of the police team. It`s all about her and what serves her needs.

GRACE: I want to go to a special guest joining us tonight, Marc Klaas. You all know Marc, child advocate, the founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Not only that, a crime victim himself, after the kidnap and murder of his precious girl, Polly.

You know, Marc Klaas, I want to ask you in a different vein tonight. We know that Jesse Grund, who is accused of being the bio dad, his family is with us tonight. Immediately, just like you did, Marc, said, take my polygraph, I insist, because then you can start -- stop wasting time on me and then go find my daughter. Find Caylee. Find whomever the subject may be.

Tell me about your experience, Marc. Explain why it is so important that, for instance, we have been told by Leonard Padilla that the Anthonys refuse to take a polygraph. Why is it so critical, in your experience, Marc Klaas, that they do that?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, BEYONDMISSING.COM, FATHER OF MURDER VICTIM POLLY KLAAS: First of all, Nancy, the clock of fear starts ticking the moment you realize that your child is gone, and you have no idea where that child is.

You then are working against the clock, realizing that if somebody has taken them, they could be disappearing at the rate of a mile a minute, and that every minute that child is gone, the chances of recovering that child become less and less.

Therefore, you will take any steps necessary to help recover that child. The most important one being eliminating yourself from any kind of suspicion. Therefore, you go to law enforcement, you say, I want to take a polygraph, I want to eliminate myself.

I want you to be able to put the full force of your investigative resource on to whatever did happen to my child so that we can recover my child and this can be done one way or the other.

This Casey woman is an absolutely odious creature. You see -- it`s like concentric circles in a pond. She is leaving victim after victim after victim after victim. I see this wonderful man, Mr. Grund, almost come to tears on your program over something over which he had absolutely no control, and should not have been involved in ever.

GRACE: You know, Marc, a lot of people claim that if you`re upset, if you`re anxious or frustrated, sad, on a particular issue, it will make you fail a lie detector. That you took a lie detector in the midst of the drama surrounding your little girl.

And you passed it.

KLAAS: Well, you know, you hear this from television, and you hear it most especially from defense attorneys. Or, in fact, any attorney that`s representing you will most likely tell you not to take a polygraph exam.

But at some place, you have to put your faith in truth. And really, this is always a quest for truth. And if the truth is that you had nothing to do with the disappearance of your child, or whatever the issue may be, then you take the polygraph, and you -- you deal with those issues as they come up.

I don`t know anybody -- and I know when we were talking about sociopaths and psychopaths, et cetera, there is an ability, sometimes, because there is no conscious to pass these things, but that`s a small subset of society.

And I think that anybody that takes one of these polygraphs, if they have nothing to hide, they will not be falsely implicated.

GRACE: And back to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, are you absolutely certain that Cindy and George Anthony had agreed to take a polygraph and then, Lee, the son, talked them out of it?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH MISSING TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: That`s correct. And then you can verify that through Rob Dick, because he was in more conversation with Lee than I was. But that`s exactly true.

And what Marc has just said about lie detector tests -- I`ve had a lot of experience with them -- is very accurate. Very seldom is there a mistake made that implicates you, if you`re really innocent of the situation.

GRACE: Out to famed forensic scientist, Lawrence Kobilinsky at John J. College of Criminal Justice, who has now signed on to be a consultant to the Casey Anthony defense team.

You know, Kobe, I have been wondering, after knowing you all of these years, after reading your work and admiring you, why you were waffling around, slippy slidy, on a lot of questions I was asking you. Now it`s become apparent.

Now how do you plan to help the Anthonys on, for instance, these 71 years worth of fraud charges? What exactly forensically are you going to do on a bad check case?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE TEAM: Well, first of all, Nancy, I think you recognize that not only is this case that we`re discussing, Caylee Anthony, a forensic case dealing with physical evidence, but even the check fraud deals with document examination, handwriting analysis.

And that is not my expertise. I am here, I think, to talk to the public about forensic scientist in general. But to Mr. Baez, I think he, as a good defense attorney, is entitled to know what the science says. And I don`t make things black, white and white black. But I have to give him the best that science can offer.

GRACE: With us, Lawrence Kobilinsky from John J. College of Criminal Justice.

Quick break, everyone. We`re taking your calls live. But I want to let you know that high-profile crime journalist and author, Dominick Dunne, and crime victim, rushed from a Vegas courtroom to a local hospital, complaining of pain.

It was in the middle of the O.J. Simpson armed robbery trial. He has covered -- Dunne has covered some of the biggest last trials of the last 30 years and is battling bladder cancer. He`s headed back to New York in the next few days. And we are praying for him.

Dominick, our friend, stay strong.


(NEWSBREAK)



SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: You first called the police about this when your mother and father, OK -- actually you called the police to report your daughter missing.

What happens is your parents find their car has been towed from Amsoct and your parents ask you where your daughter is and you tell daughter or your parents, you haven`t seen your daughter for over a month, right?

That`s true, OK, so I haven`t told you anything -- so far I haven`t said anything that`s not true, OK?

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TOT CAYLEE: That`s all true.

ALLEN: That`s true, OK? Sounds -- true sounds reasonable to you, correct?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to our producer standing by the Anthony home, Natisha Lance.

Natisha, why did the Anthonys abruptly cancel the vigil for Caylee?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, they said that they were concerned about the safety of not only themselves but other people in the area who were going to be attending the vigil because of the protesters that have been out here and they did not want another confrontation that they`ve had over the last couple weeks, as -- once again.

GRACE: And to Mark Williams of WNDB, what can you tell me about this alleged sighting of little Caylee?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: July 10th, a piece of videotape surfaced from a Murfreesboro, Tennessee McDonald`s. Murfreesboro was right near Nashville. The -- one of the restaurant workers there said she saw the tape, she sent it to the FBI, the FBI is discounting it all together because there have been other video sightings, nothing`s turned out.

GRACE: To John Lucich, former investigator and author of "Cyber Lies," what do you make of the sighting? Here it is.

JOHN LUCICH, INVESTIGATOR, AUTHOR OF "CYBER LIES": Well, it`s not a sighting, Nancy. It`s actually hard evidence. It`s going to come back either or another -- it`s going to come back that it is Casey or Caylee, or it`s going to come back and says it isn`t.

But if they`re discounting it, I think they`re discounting it because they`ve already taken a look at the video. They would not discount it right off the top.

GRACE: I want to go back to Richard Grund.

Richard, I know that you recall the very last time that you were with Caylee. I know you recall holding her in your arms, taking care of her, day after day after day. Have you been in contact with mom, Casey, at all since she went missing?

RICHARD GRUND, DAD OF CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE, JESSE GRUND: No, I haven`t.

GRACE: How about Jesse?

GRUND: No.

GRACE: So as close as you al were to little Caylee, she has not called you or had anything to say to you about Caylee`s disappearance?

GRUND: No, she might have called Jesse, but you have to understand, when this all happened, Jesse was the first person to come forward to give a statement. He was the first person to help law enforcement, and I would suspect that Casey feels betrayed, and she probably wouldn`t call him.

GRACE: What do you think happened?

GRUND: Again, I`m going to hold out hope, but either -- I believe that something happened, and it`s possible that something happened and Casey snapped. And I heard what were Klaas said, and I understand where everybody is coming from.

And I`m not here to defend Casey Anthony.

GRACE: I understand that.

GRUND: But I want people to understand that the Casey we knew that spent all of the time with us and watched Sunday football, and the pictures that you have is not the Casey you see right now.

And I think the clue to finding Caylee is what bridges the Casey we knew to the aberration we have now. If we can figure out what causes her to become, as Mr. Klaas said, the monster she is now, I think we find out what happened to Caylee.

GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live, but I want to alert you about four children that are in danger tonight. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Took the children right there, and she got scared. She panicked and ran -- because she thought she was going to lose them.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And she`s worried about the well-being of her daughter, 39-year-old Shirley Riggs, and her grandchildren. Grandsons, Spencer and Kelley, and granddaughters Raven and Rhiannon.

Shirley does not have custody of her children. They`re currently in foster care. Police say on Friday night during an unsupervised overnight visit at her house, she put the kids in a maroon Dodge Caravan with Missouri like this one with Missouri plates MB6 C8M and drove out without telling anybody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I`m worried. I`m worried about it all. I have to imagine where she is at and are they eating. But I`m sure she -- she will manage.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: These four children in extreme danger, according to authorities.

Out to Aisha Sultan, home and family editor with the "St. Louis Post- Dispatch." Thank you for being with us. What happened?

AISHA SULTAN, ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, WWW.STL.COM/PARENTSTALKBACK: She picked these children up for an unsupervised visit on Friday and she was supposed to bring them back on Saturday. But when there was no sign of her, it raised a red flag, especially since there was a history the previous year of her not returning the kids after her visits.

GRACE: Is that where she got the four charges of interference with custody?

SULTAN: That`s exactly right. And she`s facing those charges. But that was unrelated to a hearing, a custody hearing coming up on Monday. And there is some speculation that perhaps she panicked about whether her custody rights would change, and just took off.

GRACE: What were her custody rights?

SULTAN: It seems as though she was allowed some unsupervised visits, but apparently they weren`t very lengthy, because she was only allowed to be with them from Friday until Saturday. So it`s unclear right now.

GRACE: Now, what are the ages of the children, Aisha?

SULTAN: 14, 12, 10 and 7. Her oldest was a teenager boy and the younger three were girls. There is some real concern about where they might be going or whether she has the supplies necessary to even take care of them for any amount of time.

GRACE: Why didn`t she have custody of her own children?

SULTAN: That is, I think, remains to come out in the custody hearings that were supposed to happen on Monday.

GRACE: Is she under any mental treatment?

SULTAN: The police authorities did release a statement saying that they are concerned about the welfare of these children, particularly because there may be some psychiatric issues involved in this case.

GRACE: What about it, John Lucich?

LUCICH: As far as what, Nancy?

GRACE: Well, as far as finding the mom and the children?

LUCICH: Well, they`re going to be watching everything that she does. They`re going to be looking at her credit card receipts. They`re going to be doing -- watching, maybe even pinging her cell phone if she`s got them. They`re going to watching all the activities with the ATM.

You know, in some states, we have it here in New York and New Jersey, we actually have -- cameras that have license plate recognition software built right in where they can actually identify that. So they`re going to be doing a lot of different things to find this woman.

GRACE: To Doug Burns and Christopher Amolsch -- Doug, she`ll never get custody now.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, absolutely. I mean it was.

GRACE: Not that I want her to, but.

BURNS: No, of course, but I mean it was well explained. She`s got a hearing coming up Monday at which her rights might have been compromised. So it seems like she panicked, definitely.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Four children clearly in danger tonight. Their mom, who did not have custody, has made off with them.

To Marc Klaas, what do you suggest?

KLAAS: Well, I suggest that they start modifying the AMBER Alert. We knew certain things, that they may be heading to Denver, they may be heading to Oregon. Now if they were heading to Denver in this vehicle, it`s a 618 miles shot. Straight across Highway 70.

All they would have to do is e-mail or fax the fliers of these missing persons to every highway service station, convenient store, fast food outlets, highway motel, and truck stop, and somebody who have recognized them and put a stop to this immediately.

The same thing if they were going to Oregon. It would have been Highway 80 to Highway 84. It would have twice as long a trip, but still they could have done -- they could have done a targeted distribution and put a stop to it very quickly.

GRACE: Bethany Marshall, weight in.

MARSHALL: These children have been raised by a mother who`s paranoid and mistrustful of authority figures, probably wants to alienate them from the other parent, probably has a little insight into their needs. Otherwise, she would have been the custodial parent.

And in terms of psychiatric issues, she looks very thin, which makes me think of either anorexia or substance abuse. These children are probably terrified at this point.

GRACE: Tip line, 816-325-758. Please help us.

I want to stop and remember Army Specialist Jeremiah Hughes, 26, Jacksonville, Florida, killed, Iraq. Fulfilled his dream of serving and protecting his country. Loved reading history. Favorite TV show, "24."

Leaves behind grieving parents and two younger brothers, also serving the army, widow, Angie.

Jeremiah Hughes, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. And tonight, happy 90th birthday to New York friend of the show, Iris. She never misses a show.

Happy birthday, Iris.

And Dominick Dunne, please get well.

I`ll see you tomorrow at 8 o`clock sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/22/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

More Police Documents on Caylee Anthony Case Released

Aired September 23, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 14 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Bombshell tonight. In the last hour, over 600 pages of stunning documents released -- details, interviews, witness statements, hundreds of mom, Casey`s, obsessive text messages -- all from inside the police investigation released. - And in black and white, Casey Anthony spins yet another story, claiming she left her 2-year-old girl willingly with a nanny for a month to go job hunting in Tampa.

And found abandoned in the car, left behind, little Caylee`s favorite baby doll, a doll she refused to go without day or night. And highly probative. When mom, Casey, left home, she took her own things, everything for her, but nothing -- no shoes, no PJs, no clothing, no toys, no dolls -- nothing taken to provide for little Caylee. Why?

We learn mom, Casey`s, plan to party hearty nearly every night, out for expensive manicures, her bizarre obsession with men, and blaming the smell of human decomposition in her car on a dead animal. That`s right, mom, Casey Anthony, acknowledges decomposition in her car and blames a squirrel! All this after little Caylee goes missing.

Investigators confirming forensic evidence of human decomposition and huge amounts of the chemical solution chloroform in mom, Casey`s, car trunk. We learn the grandparents, George and Cindy Anthony, were terrified to open the car trunk, afraid they`d find their granddaughter dead. Casey Anthony complaining non-stop little Caylee slows down her social life. And she admits she`s an unfit mom. Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking information revealed inside nearly 600 pages of documents. Casey Anthony`s friend, Amy Huizenga, tells detectives Casey Anthony told her it smelled like something died in Casey`s car. But Anthony eventually went on to say there was definitely a part of an animal plastered to the frame inside the car. According to Amy Huizenga, before George and Cindy Anthony opened Casey`s impounded car, they were terrified that Casey or Caylee would be inside the trunk.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: There was a bag of pizza for what, 12 days, in the back of the car, full of maggots, and it stunk so bad. You know how hot it`s been. That smell was terrible.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was an overpowering smell in the back.

CINDY ANTHONY: there was no odor in the car when it was towed out to the towing company.

No odor. Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cindy Anthony also allegedly told Huizenga that if Caylee didn`t turn up soon, Cindy Anthony would sue for custody of her granddaughter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody is saying anything bad about you. Your family is with you 100 percent.

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: No, they`re not. That`s (DELETED) because I just watched the (DELETED) news and heard everything that my mom said. Nobody in my own family is on my side.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, they are. Nobody has said...

CASEY ANTHONY: They just want Caylee back. That`s all they`re worried about right now, is getting Caylee back. And you know what? That`s all I care about right now.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a beautiful 3- year-old Florida girl, Caylee. In the last hours, 600 pages of bombshell documents from inside the police investigation released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New details in the Caylee Anthony case. Florida prosecutors are releasing nearly 600 pages of new documents, including transcripts of interviews, text messages and phone records.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everyone who was interviewed talks about the smell from that car. Immediately, Casey`s mom, Cindy, thought it smelled like death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: There`s something wrong. I found my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was worried that perhaps something had happened to Caylee or Casey. And her friends, before the car was abandoned, they all wondered about the smell. And she explained that it was a dead animal.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I think my daughter ran over something.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tony Lazarro (ph), the boyfriend that Casey had when all of this was going on, he said that in July, early July, she started having all these nightmares and she would just wake up in these cold sweats. And he would ask her, you know, What`s wrong? What`s this all about? And she would say things like she was worried about their relationship.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: What did the person do that you need arrested?

CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter.

911 OPERATOR: For what?

CINDY ANTHONY: For stealing an auto and stealing money.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy Anthony, the day when she went over to confront Casey, also told Tony that, Hey, I hope you`re rich because she`s probably going to just, you know, rob you dry here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Tony have anything to do with Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, Tony had nothing to do with Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, why do you want to talk to him?

CASEY ANTHONY: Because he`s my boyfriend, and I want to actually try to sit and talk to him because I didn`t get a chance to talk to him earlier, because I got arrested on a (DELETED) whim today, because they`re blaming me for stuff that I never would do, that I didn`t do.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB. Mark, what`s the latest?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Nancy, a bombshell this afternoon, the state attorney`s office here in Orlando releasing 600 pages of documents, those documents including interviews with boyfriends and good friends of Casey Anthony. They shed light and they show the emotion and the stability of that 22-year-old Casey Anthony.

One of the things, of course, the smell coming from the car. She told her friend, Amy Huizenga, that she thought her dad borrowed her car, he ran over a squirrel, and basically, the squirrel died under there, later telling Amy that she found the bodies of the squirrels plastered to the frame.

GRACE: Well, according to neighbor Brittany Schrieber, no one has used that car in about a year-and-a-half other than mom, Casey Anthony.

Everybody, in the last hours, this stack of police documents from inside the police investigation have been released. This stack has been released by the state`s attorney`s office, and it is a bombshell, a treasure trove for prosecutors. It details the fact that mom, Casey Anthony, acknowledges the smell of death in her own car. This isn`t something her grandmother, Cindy Anthony, dreamed up. She herself says it and blames it basically on her father running over a dead animal.

Not only that, Mark Williams, she comes up with a whole new story as to what happened to little Caylee.

WILLIAMS: She does. As a matter of fact, she says she was going to go to Tampa to search for a job for a month and that Caylee was headed of to the baby-sitter. But the big thing is the fact that Cindy Anthony went into her room, found things missing from Casey`s articles that she always had, but there was nothing taken for little Caylee. And if you`re going to go to a baby-sitter, you usually pack a pretty big bag, especially if you`re going to be away for a month, Nancy.

GRACE: To Kathy Belich, joining us tonight, with CNN affiliate WFTV. She`s there in Orlando. Kathy, I find it highly probative, the items found left behind inside mom, Casey`s, car.

KATHY BELICH, WFTV: Yes, apparently, a baby doll that Caylee would go nowhere with (SIC), a carseat. She -- and no indication that there was any plan -- any legitimate plan to leave Caylee in someone`s care.

Also, about the smell of that car. Casey told her brother that that smell first showed up in that car June 5, which was their mother`s birthday. And Lee didn`t believe it because he said she would never drive around in that car for that long with that smell, nor would she put Caylee in that car with that smell. He also said that their father, George, was meticulous about keeping that car clean. So she has told, obviously, numerous stories about that smell, but also that it started back on June 5, which doesn`t seem to make sense, either.

GRACE: Very disturbing, Mark Williams with WNDB, is that the grandparents, when they go to finally get the car, they find out from the towing service, I believe, the car is still sitting there outside an Amscot -- they go to get it, and the stench is so overwhelming -- they don`t have the key to get in. They are terrified, according to these documents, that their granddaughter or daughter was dead in the trunk.

WILLIAMS: That`s correct. And the big thing is, the towing company didn`t have the key, so George and Cindy Anthony went down there and they opened up the trunk, and this odor just came out of the back. And one of the things that the guys at the towing yard said is just a couple of days before, they had to clean up a car that -- and the individual took his life in. So they knew the smell of death, as well. So I mean, that stench is just overpowering.

GRACE: You know, the fact that she basically acknowledges it, number one, the smell of decomposition, blames it on her father running over an animal, leaving the favorite baby doll behind, the doll that little Caylee would go nowhere without -- interesting -- back to you, Kathy Belich -- the fact that when mom, Casey, leaves her home, her -- the grandparents` home, her parents, she takes her belongings but leaves everything belonging to Caylee behind.

BELICH: That`s right. That seems to be an indication she was not planning to take a trip with Caylee anywhere, leaving the important articles, and of course, as we said, Caylee`s favorite baby doll behind. And she told so many different stories about what she was planning to do during that month, this is just one more story that doesn`t make sense.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining me tonight in our Manhattan studios, veteran prosecutor Eleanor Dixon. Her specialty, crimes on children. Out of Atlanta, defense attorney Raymond Giudice. Out of New York, high-profile lawyer Richard Herman.

Eleanor, weigh in.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I think they probably released these documents to show the evidence that has mounted up against Casey Anthony, as well as to maybe put some pressure on her. At some point, maybe she`ll have to explain these things to the public.

GRACE: Ray?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let me just say this. I haven`t gone through all 600 pages of alleged bombshells and treasure troves, but 600 pages hasn`t produced a one-page indictment for homicide yet.

GRACE: I don`t know about that. Richard Herman, agree or disagree?

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I completely agree with Ray. If they had it, Nancy -- I believe the DNA`s degraded. This 600 pages are meaningless. If they had the DNA, they would have indicted her.

GRACE: So let me get this straight, Herman. The fact that she`s made up another story about voluntarily giving Caylee away for a month to go job-hunting?

HERMAN: That goes to her mental state. That`s going to be the defense, Nancy.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Caylee?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you hurt Caylee or leave her somewhere and you`re worried that if we find that out, that people are going to look at you the wrong way?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you`re telling me that Zenaida took your child without your permission and hasn`t returned her.

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s the last person that I`ve seen with my daughter, yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something about a car at Amscot?

CASEY ANTHONY: My car...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What -- what`s up with that?

CASEY ANTHONY: ... ran out of gas. I was driving actually to different places...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Your car?

CASEY ANTHONY: My car, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CASEY ANTHONY: The car that I bought from my brother three years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CASEY ANTHONY: Sucks because I ran out of gas. My gas gauge is obviously reading wrong. The sensor could be wrong.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

CASEY ANTHONY: It showed I had half a tank of gas, but it was empty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When did it run out of gas? Was that before or after your baby is missing?

CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, it was definitely after.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

CASEY ANTHONY: It was definitely after.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Six hundred pages from inside the police investigation released. We learn, Mark Williams with WNDB, that after little Caylee goes missing, mom, Casey Anthony, is man-crazy, juggling guys, this obsessive text-messages, hundreds of them, out getting manicures, talking obsessively about partying, where they`re going, My goal tonight, to make out with a boy. Nothing, nothing about Caylee.

WILLIAMS: She was the text message queen!

GRACE: Was that you just laughing? Did I hear that? Was that you in my ear? I don`t find that humorous at all, Mark Williams.

WILLIAMS: Well, I`m just saying that...

GRACE: I think it`s sick!

WILLIAMS: She was the text message queen, Nancy. Come on. Everybody is...

GRACE: I don`t find that humorous at all. In the context of her little girl being either kidnapped or dead, and she`s out getting a manicure? Are you kidding me? Even when I was trying a murder case, I didn`t have time for a manicure, much less thinking my daughter`s dead!

WILLIAMS: Well, that`s the point I`m trying to reach is that she was the text message queen, sending these text messages all around to all of her friends, and again, never brought up Caylee or where she was or mentioned her very, very, very little. Just in one text message, she called herself a sorry, proud mama just because Caylee used the bathroom for the first time. I mean, it`s unbelievable, this girl shows no emotion whatsoever, Nancy.

GRACE: One mention of Caylee in all of that.

We are taking your calls. To Linda in Texas. Hi, Linda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, is it normal for a person to be arrested as many times as she has and released so many times on the same charge?

GRACE: Well, they are different charges. Out to Natisha Lance. There are many, many different fraud charges. Give it to me in a nutshell, Natisha -- a nutshell.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: There are several different fraud charges that all come from her friend, Amy Huizenga, when she stole that checkbook from Amy when she was out of town. And they are being charged against her at different times, which is what`s causing the arrest and then the release.

GRACE: You know, frankly, Eleanor Dixon, I agree with Linda. I`ve never seen it done this way.

DIXON: Well, it has been done this way, though, Nancy. Think about it. She`s committed these crimes. These are different warrants that are being taken out. She`s being arrested on each warrant. But they`re bondable offenses so that`s why she`s getting out on bond.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Michelle in Michigan. Hi, Michelle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Thanks for taking my call. If she left home for weeks, where did she put the child`s belongings? And the people that she stayed with in the apartment, did they ever see any children`s or child`s belongings, toys, books, jackets, clothes?

GRACE: Interesting question. To Kathy Belich with WFTV. When she was shacking up with all these various men -- and hey, I don`t care about that. She can shack up with whoever she wants to. That`s not a felony. Killing your daughter or aiding in the kidnap or the mistreatment of her is. So what do we know? Did she make any provisions for little Caylee at these various guys` homes?

BELICH: Well, what we read in some of these documents was she used to keep her belongings and possibly some of Caylee`s in some backpacks. She had several bags in the car that her brother, Lee, had gone through the night she sort of resurfaced when that car resurfaced. So she probably just used small bags because they were usually short trips. If she was, you know, gone with Caylee overnight, it was just a one-night thing. She was never really gone from the house more than a day or so until, of course, mid-June.

GRACE: That 30 -- approximately 30-day period. Mark Williams, though it said in this treasure trove of prosecution documents -- 600 pages of police reports released in the last hours. It says in these documents that missing from her bedroom at home were her things, her belongings, her items. All of Caylee`s things were still there. She took nothing to provide for her daughter during this month-long sojourn.

WILLIAMS: Yes, even if she was going to go for a job hunt in Tampa or -- and she was going to drop...

GRACE: Why are you saying that? She wasn`t going for a job hunt in Tampa. She went nowhere but over to her boyfriend`s house!

WILLIAMS: But any time you want to take your daughter with you, and she has this story...

GRACE: Oh, good Lord!

WILLIAMS: ... this is part of her web of lies, Nancy...

GRACE: You should see, for me to take the twins to the park for one hour, I can barely push the stroller, it`s packed with so much stuff -- Cheerios, food, blankets, everything! Nothing was missing from the little girl`s room, Mark, nothing! What does that say to you?

Hold on. I don`t need a crack reporter like you and Kathy. I need a shrink for this one. Clinical psychologist Dr. Patrician Saunders, weigh in.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Nancy, when people don`t have attachments to other human beings, then they behave without a conscience. They have no empathy for other people, nor can they stand outside of themselves and see how others see them. Cold, yes. Mentally ill, no. This woman looks more and more like a real sociopath, which is not a mental illness. Richard Herman, you`re wrong.

GRACE: To famed forensic scientist Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky with John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Koby (ph), you still working for the defense on this case?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, Nancy, let me make something clear because people don`t understand my role. I`m not an advocate. I`m not a defense attorney.

GRACE: Is that yes?

KOBILINSKY: I`m a scientist, and I try to -- my role is to...

GRACE: Want simple yes or no.

KOBILINSKY: Yes.

GRACE: Thank you. Very quickly, Koby, the slacks belonging to mom, Casey, in the back of that car, would they have held any forensic evidence? They were washed by mom, Cindy Anthony. Would they?

KOBILINSKY: It`s quite possible that there was some trace evidence or biological evidence on the garment. But once the garment is washed, it`s gone.

GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking your calls live.

But very quickly. Important. Investigators have released a new age- progression photo in the search for a little Florida boy, Trenton Duckett. Please take a look. Trenton went missing August 2006, just 2 years old when he was reported missing from his own bedroom, Leesburg (ph), Florida. He`s closer to school age now, if he is still with us. Brown hair, brown eyes. Take a look, please. If you have information, please call toll-free 800-423-TIPS.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His image is out there so frequently as a toddler that we have to change the public`s perception of what he looks like. We know now we`re looking for a 4-year-old boy, not a 2-year-old toddler.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zanny has never worked here. How do you explain that?

CASEY ANTHONY: She has an ID. She has an ID with her name on it. I`ve seen it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like you have an ID?

CASEY ANTHONY: I do have an ID somewhere at my house. Both of my parents have seen it. Both of my parents...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like you have an office?

CASEY ANTHONY: ... know that I`ve worked here. I used to have an office.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, just like you have an office?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, I don`t have an office now.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Six hundred pages of police documents released. We go inside the police investigation and the hunt for 3-year-old little Caylee.

Out to the lines. Patty in Indiana. Hi, Patty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, what do the Anthonys do for income now that all this is going on? Do they go to work every day?

GRACE: What about it, Natisha Lance?

LANCE: Well, what we`re hearing, Nancy, is that George Anthony has gone back to work. He`s working security at nights over at Disney. Cindy Anthony, as we know from before, was on disability leave from her job for a period of time, I guess, until this is resolved.

GRACE: What did she do before she went out on disability?

LANCE: She`s a registered nurse.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Denise in Maryland. Hi, Denise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. I`m curious as to whether or not the police and the nightclubs that Casey was known to frequent -- have they checked the videocameras for the parking lot around the time Caylee came up missing, and even prior, to see if possibly she was going out to the trunk of that car, checking on that child?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: Our purpose in coming here was to do what? Go where?

ANTHONY: I guess there wasn`t a purpose. There wasn`t a purpose whatsoever to come up here.

ALLEN: So we`re wasting time, valuable time we ought to be spending looking for your daughter.

ANTHONY: I`m trying to think of places.

ALLEN: No, I.

ANTHONY: . where I know she`s been.

ALLEN: You`re not answering my question. Do you want us to help.

ANTHONY: Yes.

ALLEN: . find your daughter?

ANTHONY: I do want you to help.

ALLEN: Well, then you need to help me -- a good starting point would be to answer the questions, OK? If I say you were here because and then you just ignore that, like as if I never asked it, and go off in some other direction, does that answer the question?

ANTHONY: No.

ALLEN: OK. All right. Let`s go through this again. We`re here because? We got here how? To do what?

ANTHONY: Because I lied. Because I brought you up here. And honestly, I was reaching for.

ALLEN: No, stop right there. I want you to tell me how lying to us is going to help us find your daughter.

ANTHONY: It`s not going to.

ALLEN: Huh?

ANTHONY: It`s not going to.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls. 600 documents released by police.

Straight out to Mark Williams with WNDB Newstalk 1150. You called her the text message queen. The content of many of those texts.

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, the content, Nancy, of course, was she always complained about working long and difficult hours, not being with her daughter. The other thing is.

GRACE: She didn`t have a job.

WILLIAMS: That`s it.

GRACE: Who was she telling -- I saw where she said she was working 12-hour stretches. Who was she telling that lie to?

WILLIAMS: She was telling that to Amy Huizinga, her best friend at the time. Also, she also apologized for -- since she was working these long hours, she couldn`t party, she was -- you know, her life was just upside down, and she couldn`t wait to find a job to -- to work regular hours, like everybody else does.

GRACE: Instead of her demanding job at Universal.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: A.k.a., sitting at home on her parents` sofa, texting.

Out to the lines -- hold on. Hold on. I want to go to Kathi Belich with WFTV.

Kathi, how is it that all of these documents were released?

KATHI BELICH, REPORTER, CNN AFFILIATE WFTV: Well, actually, this is part of the discovery process, which I`m sure you`re familiar with. The defense has gotten these documents and then they become public record. So that -- that`s why they were released today at some point.

They had to redact all of the personal information and then they were they were public record.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Judy in Georgia. Hi, Judy.

JUDY, GEORGIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. Great show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

JUDY: Has any psychologist or psychiatrist tested her or considered her as a multiple personality disorder?

GRACE: What do we know about that, Kathi?

BELICH: I don`t think that that`s ever come up. I have heard so many different theories. A veteran prosecutor in town uses the word "sociopath," which her mother has used and you`ve used it, some other of your guests have used it.

What I have heard is that kind of personality -- the only time that person -- a person who is a sociopath shows emotion is when it has something to do with them. And if you look at a lot of this information, you know, you might come to that conclusion.

GRACE: To Mark Williams, the question is, has there been a psychological evaluation? It`s my understanding that was part of the conditions of her bond.

WILLIAMS: That was part of the conditions of her bond and home confinement. Those issues in that test -- the results of those tests sent up to the Fifth District Court of Appeals in Daytona Beach, and they were sealed. They have not been released whatsoever, Nancy.

GRACE: To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, that initially posted a $500,000 bond to get mom Casey out from behind bars, he -- he has come off that bond.

Mr. Padilla, I want to come back to a question, I believe, it was from Denise in Maryland. What about the theory that she would drug the child with chloroform that could be revealed in videos from these clubs or other places?

I know it`s tenuous, but what about it?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: Well, that`s a very accurate question that she made, a good question, because law enforcement has checked, basically, a lot of the video cameras in -- like in the Target parking lot, and other areas where she was constantly at.

And they`ve also taken -- you know in Florida, you have the little white box where you go through without throwing the quarters in the machines?

GRACE: Yes.

PADILLA: That`s -- that also gives you another -- another bread crumb trail as to where she was at certain times by -- by taking that, and unloading the information off of, because it`s all saved in a master computer.

So as far as -- as far as where she was and at what time she was, it`s very accurate. But the most telling thing of those 600 pages that were released today is the fact that she`s already preempting, if somebody smells the car, and she`s doing it as of the 27th.

GRACE: Exactly.

PADILLA: . and she`s preempting that even further back to the 5th of June.

GRACE: Exactly. Exactly. I find the single most probative item in the 600 pages that she acknowledges the smell of decomposition in her own car. And we see the date. We see the date that she starts spinning that story. Agree or disagree?

PADILLA: Absolutely. She`s thinking somebody is going to come by here, because I`m going have to get gas, somebody is going to help me, somebody is going to smell it, I`ve got to come up with a story.

And she comes up with -- I think it`s on the 27th she says, I got a couple squirrels that were killed. At one point she said they were nesting under there and died. And even Lee afterwards, a month later, she says, that the situation had developed as early as June.

So she`s not exactly the psycho queen that everybody wants to make her out. She`s thinking constantly on her feet, like where do I go with this smell? What do I do? Somebody has got to come with a can of gas, what do I do?

GRACE: You know I find it also interesting -- let`s unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Richard Herman, Ray Giudice -- Eleanor, at one juncture, she told people that the baby was at the beach with the nanny and she showed up at Amy Huizinga`s doorstep saying, can you take me to Target so I can buy a gas can?

For what? Isn`t that an odd request?

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: It is an odd request. And what do -- I mean did you run out of gas in front of your best friend`s house, why is that going on? That`s a good piece of evidence along the mode. That`s piece of evidence I like for the prosecution, she didn`t take any of the child`s stuff with her from the house.

GRACE: You know, to Richard Herman and Ray Giudice -- I`ll start with you, Richard, when there is not a body in a corpus (INAUDIBLE), when there is not a body in a murder case, cases are still made and proven and convicted.

RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely, Nancy. Strong circumstantial evidence will get that conviction. And based on everything we`ve seen so far and the alleged DNA, you know in your heart, you would have indicted her already for murder.

They have not done that. There`s a problem with the police in Orlando. I`m telling you, they don`t have the goods on her yet.

GRACE: Raymond?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let me say that there are rare cases where a murder case is -- conviction is obtained without a body. But even rarer, though.

GRACE: It`s not rare.

GIUDICE: . that there`s no crime scene or no crime weapon. Those three pieces put together is the reason there`s no indictment.

GRACE: That is the good point. And it is not rare, however, for there to be a murder case without a body.

GIUDICE: I completely agree, but not all three.

GRACE: Killer -- well, you just said the exact opposite, so when you make up your mind.

GIUDICE: I`m sorry. What I`m saying is, without a crime scene, without a weapon and without the body, that`s a rare case to be made.

GRACE: Agree.

To Mark Williams, what else did you see within the text messages? I mean, there were hundreds of them, mostly to various men.

WILLIAMS: Yes. And the big thing is, is that, you know, again she just keeps talking about how she has to -- how she has to work all these long hours. Again, she`s not working.

There is nothing in there about Caylee. But one thing that came up in the documentation, in an interview with Tony Lozzaro, the investigators interviewed them -- him, and he said Casey would wake up in the middle of the night in cold sweats, saying that she was having, literally, a nightmare.

So that figures into the equation, as well, Nancy.

GRACE: To Vince Velazquez, homicide detective out of Atlanta, with so many conflicting stories and so many reams of documents, how do you -- how do police, investigators go through and make an accurate and comprehensive time line?

VINCE VELAZQUEZ, HOMICIDE DETECTIVE, ATLANTA METRO, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: Nancy, basically talking to all of her friends, cell phone records are going to be critical in this. And I understand that they are polygraphing a lot of these witnesses and friends to ensure they`re not on a wild goose chase.

I want to comment, too, on this squirrel issue with the squirrel under the car. Where is the squirrel? What happened to it? The police took this car. There is no mention of any remains of a dead animal in the car. Where is that at? It`s total ludicrous. It`s just -- it`s just not true.

GRACE: Vince Velasquez with us from the Atlanta jurisdiction.

Everybody, as we go to break, I want to wish a very special and happy birthday -- happy 99th birthday to my Aunt Ella Stokes in Jacksonville, Florida. She never misses a show.

Aunt Ella, at 99, what an inspiration you are to the rest of us. Happy birthday.

And now, at your request, more pictures of the twins. Lucy eating a Cheerio this morning at the park. Refusing their hats.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CPL. YURY MELICH, ORANGE COUNTY INVESTIGATOR: Go back to your statement, you dropped off your -- you dropped off Caylee on June 9th and - - walk me through -- you dropped her off to go to work?

ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

MELICH: OK. Get off of work and go from there.

ANTHONY: I got off of work, left Universal driving to pick up Caylee like a normal day. And I show up to the apartment, knock on the door, nobody answers. So I called Zenaida`s cell phone and it`s out of service, says that the -- the phone is no longer in service, excuse me.

So I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if maybe it was just a fluke, if something happened. And time passed. I didn`t hear from anyone. No one showed up to the house so I went to Jay Blanchard Park and checked a couple other places where maybe possibly they would`ve gone a couple stores -- just regular places that I know Zenaida shops at and she`s taken Caylee before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live.

Over 600 pages of police investigation. Witness statements, text messages, you name it, released. And they are stunning.

Out to the lines, Mary in Florida. Hi, Mary.

MARY, FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear? Thank you.

MARY: Can the fact that Casey did not bring clothes or toys for Caylee be used as proof of premeditation?

GRACE: Absolutely. Let`s unleash the lawyers, Eleanor Dixon, Richard Herman, Ray Giudice.

Herman, you say there`s not enough evidence to show a homicide. That`s your opinion, but that evidence will definitely come into trial when a trial happens.

HERMAN: It`s going to come in, Nancy. But it`s purely circumstantial?

GRACE: So?

HERMAN: It`s not enough.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa. You can stop right there, because a murder case can be made on circumstantial evidence. I don`t have to have direct evidence. Why do you say purely circumstantial?

HERMAN: Because like..

GRACE: It`s like mud on the bottom of your shoe.

HERMAN: Like Ray Giudice instructed you earlier, that`s just one piece of it. There`s so many other elements that are missing for them to get.

GRACE: Raymond Giudice did not mention anything about circumstantial versus direct evidence. And believe you me, Mr. Herman, I do not need a pack of defense attorneys to instruct me on anything.

Eleanor, will it come into evidence or not?

DIXON: Yes, it will, along with all of the other pieces of evidence, which you can put together like a puzzle to see her guilt.

GRACE: Ray, surely, even you will have to acknowledge that circumstantial evidence can be as powerful, if not more so than direct.

GIUDICE: Of course. In fact, sometimes the jury goes back and they feel so proud of themselves about putting this puzzle together.

GRACE: As they should.

GIUDICE: And a good prosecutor like Eleanor would do that. But the question was, is this evidence for premeditation to turn this into a capital case, and that`s a very different question than what`s been answered. It will come into evidence.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know about you, Ray, but I believe you`re familiar with a little thing called the Internet?

GIUDICE: I understand, Nancy.

GRACE: And the Web searches for chloroform?

GIUDICE: That`s right.

GRACE: And then chloroform found so thick in her car, even the air was saturated.

GIUDICE: And when it`s -- and when chloroform is linked to this little girl`s death or disappearance, it may come into evidence. But that`s not today.

GRACE: Whenever this case goes to trial, I would -- if I were a betting person, put money on the fact, we will hear about chloroform.

Out to the lines, Diane in Texas, hi, Diane.

DIANE, TEXAS RESIDENT: Hi. I appreciate your persistence and all you do for us.

GRACE: Thank you.

DIANE: You`re welcome. Is Casey`s then boyfriend Tony still involved with Casey? I mean he kind of just disappeared, no interviews or comments.

And my second part, when Casey was in jail, she was always asking to talk to Tony. Was he ever approached by investigators to help get information from Casey, like befriend her?

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter from Sacramento, California, what do we know?

PADILLA: Well, I can assure you that the law enforcement requested anybody to -- you know, go somewhat on the sly -- on their behalf, in other words, acting as their agents. I didn`t see it, except one time in those 600 pages, but I can assure you.

GRACE: What one time was that?

PADILLA: It`s when they`re asking one individual there if he possibly could come up with some information for them.

GRACE: And, of course, Eleanor, unless the target is incarcerated, that`s OK. But if you are incarcerated, the state cannot make a civilian a state agent, and then go get information or the target would be subject to Miranda rights every time they spoke.

DIXON: That`s exactly right, Nancy. And it would be entrapment, as well, so you`ve got to be very careful with that. But the way she talks and lies that she tells, she`s going to dig her own grave.

GRACE: You know, Mark, what do you -- Mark Williams, what do you make of all of the text messages about getting their nails done, about where they`re going to party that night? They`re big goal is to make out with a guy? And you put them together with those party pictures, during the time Caylee is missing?

WILLIAMS: Well, what I think of it is a very irresponsible mother. And, of course, the 600 pages that came out today, it shows a pattern where the trial was more -- thought her mother was more of Cindy Anthony, Casey`s mother, than really Casey.

And there was this pull right there, they were really starting to bond big time. And Casey got very jealous over this. And, you know, back in my day when I was dating a lot, we didn`t have text messages, we called somebody on the phone.

GRACE: To Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, there was an overwhelming tone throughout the pages, the 600 pages, about the anger and jealousy between mom Casey and grandmother Cindy Anthony, and the target seemed to be Caylee.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: It`s not unusual that a child, a baby, is going to be the focus of rivalry, if not hatred, between mother and daughter.

We know that Casey is, to say the least, grossly immature person who is in no way able to be a mother. Cindy was the mom. I don`t think that the jealousy was two ways. I think it was on Casey`s side.



GRACE: Out to the lines, Marie in Michigan. Hi, Marie.

MARIE, MICHIGAN RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

MARIE: My question is do we know if she used any other computers besides her laptop and if they were confiscated? And also where is Casey now?

GRACE: To Natisha Lance, what do we know about the computers?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: The only computer that has been confiscated was her personal laptop which she used frequently and Casey right now is in the home right behind me because she`s still on home confinement.

GRACE: To Rachel in Maryland, hi, Rachel.

RACHEL, MARYLAND RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, you`re the best. I watch you every night. You`re the best.

GRACE: Thank you. Thank you very much. What`s your question, dear?

RACHEL: I just have a question. If they keep saying that, you know, they don`t need a body in order to.

GRACE: Right.

RACHEL: . put her in jail, then what is the holdup? I`m just wondering what other evidence would be needed if there doesn`t need to be a body.

GRACE: To Lawrence Kobilinsky, what do you believe the holdup is?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, I think, as we`ve heard from our defense attorneys, they just don`t have the case, the circle.

GRACE: It`s forensics. Do you think there`s a forensic holdup, Kobe?

KOBILINSKY: I doubt it. I mean there may -- there`s the possible that some of the tests are inconclusive. They need to do other testing, but I tend to think all of that is done, and I think they`re just trying to just close the loop and make sure that they dotted the I`s and crossed the T`s that they have.

GRACE: I think they`re waiting to find remains. That`s what I believe.

KOBILINSKY: Well.

GRACE: Everybody let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Jacob Fairbanks, 22, St. Paul, Minnesota, killed, Iraq on a second tour. Awarded the National Defense Service Medal, Iraqi Campaign Medal, is a proud member of the Leech Lake Band of Ojibwe.

Loved American Indian heritage, wrestling, tennis, dreamed of traveling the world. Leaves behind parents Stephen and Janette, widow Dwan and four children.

Jacob Fairbanks, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8 o`clock sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/23/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

   


NANCY GRACE

Investigative Documents Show Casey Anthony`s Preoccupation With Social Life

Aired September 24, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 14 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. We learn mom, Casey`s, movements, her lifestyle, her very thinking in the days leading up to and immediately following her little girl`s disappearance. Over 600 pages of investigative files reveal mom, Casey, rarely mentioned her daughter, complained she needed a, quote, "freaking vacation," inviting friends to hip-hop parties, ladies` nights at clubs and even to a bar`s "hot body" contest, this just days after little Caylee vanishes, her social life like a roller-coaster of men, having manicures, pedicures, even getting a tattoo that says, "The good life" after her daughter is gone, giddy over a new boyfriend.

We learn Casey Anthony borrowed a neighbor`s shovel, then backed her car into the family`s garage three times. Later, that very car towed after she said it ran out of gas. And her family described the smell of death in the car. It ultimately made them frantic.

Bombshell new theories emerge tonight. Huge amounts of chloroform found in mom, Casey`s, car trunk, along with evidence of human decomposition. Reports reveal police now believe mom, Casey, disposed of little Caylee in a dumpster near a local check-cash business, the same place the car was abandoned.

Tonight: Why were Casey Anthony`s e-mails just before little Caylee was reported missing deleted? At the same time, a huge chunk of mom, Casey`s, MySpace messages completely wiped out. Why? And in the last hours, the Zenaida Gonzalez attached to Sawgrass apartments files a defamation lawsuit against mom, Casey, Anthony. Tonight, where is Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigative interviews with Casey`s friend, Amy Huizenga, and boyfriend Tony Lazzarro (ph) reveal new information about a rich social life for Casey Anthony not long after her daughter was gone from the picture.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I lied.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Huizenga tells investigators, "I know she had started smoking more pot than she ever had. She would maybe eat a brownie here or there, maybe smoke every once in a great while. But she did tell me that she`s been smoking a lot more pot."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That statement about Casey referred to mid-June, right around the time Caylee was last seen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: Walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I lied.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So many text machines Casey received and also that she sent out, and those were her favorite topics, who she wanted to have sex with, drinking and smoking pot. That seemed to be the thing she was concentrating on mostly, not about Caylee.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you didn`t.

CASEY ANTHONY: That`s exactly where I dropped her off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you didn`t.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Casey writes, "You and the girl should try and come out to Fusian this week. There`s a "hot body" contest. First prize is $50 and a bottle. It`s the all-white party.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I lied.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Pot brownies? And tonight, police still on high alert for four little children in extreme danger, Missouri.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities are frantically searching for four Missouri children who are believed to be in extreme and imminent danger. Police say the four children were abducted by their own mother, 39-year-old Shirley Riggs (ph), who does not have custody of any of the children. According to cops, Riggs was having an unsupervised overnight visit with the children when she put them in a 1992 Dodge Caravan and fled the area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s been sitting at this house all summer to get the children, and it keeps gets getting delayed and delayed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is not the first time Riggs has taken the children, With reports saying this is now the fourth time she has taken them, the first three times out of state. Police are now on the alert in Denver, Colorado, and Oklahoma, hoping to find Riggs and return the children to safety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. The desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reams of documents released in the Casey Anthony investigation reveal shocking new details.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: She said, Hi, Mommy, and she started telling me a story, talking to me about her shoes and books.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I lied.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Boyfriend Tony Lazzarro reveals, "She would wake up or wake me either in the middle of the night or I would just wake up in the middle of the night and see that she was sweaty in bed. And I would ask her why, and she said that she would have a nightmare."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: She was excited to talk to me.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: The first time I`d been away from her for more than a day.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Around the first week of July, Casey told Amy that Caylee was with the nanny at Seaworld.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I lied.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigator asked, "She had her nails done that week?" Amy says, "yes, I`m pretty sure she had those done on Tuesday."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: After about 7:00 o`clock, when I still hadn`t heard anything, I was getting pretty upset, pretty frantic.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey gets a tattoo on her shoulder that reads, Buena Vita, "good life."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The investigator says, "So she got her fingernails cleaned, done up pretty, and a tattoo, in the week that Tony is gone?" Amy answers, "Uh-huh." The investigator says, "Goes out partying the 2nd and 3rd?" Amy says, "And the fourth." "The 4th," the investigator asks? Amy answers, "Because we had a 4th of July party."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I wasn`t sure what I`d say about not knowing where Caylee was, still hoping that I would get a call or, you know, find out that Caylee was coming back so that I could go get her.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: I lied.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In his interview, boyfriend Tony Lazzarro reveals that in the second week of July, after he returned from a trip to New York, he says he and Casey and friends watched a USC fight (ph) at a local restaurant and went grocery shopping the next day.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

CASEY ANTHONY: That was a lie.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: "You and the girl should try and come out to Fusian this week. There`s a `hot body` contest. First prize, $50 and a bottle. It`s the all-white party. Give me a shout," this dated June 25, 10:33 AM. A few days before, 8:05 AM, "Hey, we should get together. Come out to Fusian, ladies` night until midnight. Give me a call." This is 8:00 o`clock in the morning?

Mark Williams, what`s going on?

MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Boy, oh, boy. You know, your guess is at good as mine, Nancy.

GRACE: No. No, no, no. I don`t have a guess, Mark Williams. I have an educated assumption as to what`s happening. Continue.

WILLIAMS: Well, obviously, she sends these text messages to her friend, Brittany Schieber, who invites her on her birthday to come out to this "hot body" contest at Fusian, again, for a $50 prize and a bottle of booze. I mean, that was her life after little Caylee allegedly went missing. She had no remorse whatsoever. She did not care whatsoever about what happened to little Caylee, even though she tells investigators that she couldn`t live a day without seeing little Caylee.

Little Caylee is missing on June 16, as best as we can find out, and you know, she`s sending these text messages for June 25, nine days after Caylee went missing, Nancy.

GRACE: What did you learn? What jumps out at you about these reams of interviews and text messages we have found?

WILLIAMS: Well, the big thing is, taking a closer look at the documents, Lee Anthony, Casey`s older brother, telling investigators that when his sister went back to the house in July, mid-July, around the 14th or 15th, after she had been missing for nearly 30 days, he tried to mediate a bad situation between Casey and her mother.

And basically, she said -- and I`m quoting from the documents, you know, Maybe it`s because I`m a spiteful (DELETED) that I cannot produce Caylee and you (ph) won`t see Caylee. And it just -- it went on like that, and that just knocks everybody`s socks off because she had been stealing, she had been philandering from her parents, she had been driving around. And you know, all this time, she`s been living with boyfriends.

GRACE: Out to the lines. We`re taking your calls live. Rochelle, Iowa. Hi, Rochelle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think that since all these documents have come out, that maybe this would open the parents` eyes, maybe, that she did have some involvement?

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, trial lawyer out of Atlanta Renee Rockwell and high-profile trial lawyer out of the Seattle jurisdiction Anne Bremner. What about it, Renee?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is not going to make any difference, I don`t think, with the parents. I think they`ve already got an opinion. But Nancy, they are standing by their -- the only piece of the family that they have left along those lines. I can totally understand what they`re doing.

GRACE: Anne?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I agree. And the question also is whether or not it makes a difference with the authorities. But of course, they already had those documents and they released them, and there are no charges.

GRACE: Here`s part of the documents we`re seeing. A lot (ph) from Lee Anthony states the smell in the car was atrocious. He couldn`t even stand to be next to the car. Over a minute beside the car, and he`d have to leave and breathe. Asked sister about it. She said it started when two squirrels crawled up under the hood and died. She later gave a different story, Anne Bremner, stating somebody must have run over an animal, that it was plastered on the front of her car. She can`t even keep the story straight about a dead animal?

BREMNER: Well, you know, that squirrel story was a bit too much. I mean, I...

GRACE: A bit too much.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I`m talking about a missing little girl.

BREMNER: Well, you are, Nancy, but the thing is, you said it best when you said, I have an educated assumption about what this is. Our guess is as good as anybody else`s. Can this be charged? And the answer is no right now, even though she lies, lies and lies some more.

GRACE: To Caryn Stark, psychologist joining us in New York. The caller, Rochelle from are Iowa, wants to know, the release of all of these police files -- if it does open the parents` eyes, what will they do about it, if anything?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you would think that they would really try, then, to influence their daughter to get more information. But Nancy, I truly doubt that it`s going to open their eyes. They know what she`s like. They`ve lived with her. And they need to have denial right now.

GRACE: Why?

STARK: Because it`s their daughter. They feel connected to her. They want to believe. And that`s what denial is all about.

GRACE: You are seeing more from the police documents. This is more of Lee Anthony, regarding getting to the home. That`s what we just talked about. We`ll move on.

I want to go out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO radio. Weigh in, Nikki.

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, what seems to jump out to me from these documents is just the depiction of her lifestyle, the text messages, the MySpace messages, Come party here, come party there. It`s clear that there`s one reference in 500-something text messages about Caylee.

GRACE: What can you tell me about the pot and the pot brownies, Mark Williams?

WILLIAMS: Well, she mentioned that -- that people have seen her use a little bit more pot, been using some brownies, and basically, she`s been on more marijuana than she had been in the past, Nancy.

GRACE: Was this around the time Caylee goes missing?

WILLIAMS: Yes, it was, Nancy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Mom has thrown it in my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother. And you know, maybe she`s right and maybe I am." Lee says partly because of that atrocious smell in the car, their mother angrily confronted Casey about her claim that the nanny took Caylee, telling Casey, quote, "We could have found her a month ago. Why did you wait? What have you done?"

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re more afraid of your mom`s reaction than you are if you ever see your daughter again?

CASEY ANTHONY: No, I`m absolutely petrified. Absolutely petrified. I know my mom never will forgive me.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Reams of documents inside the police investigation reveal the thinking, the lifestyle of mom, Casey Anthony, around the time her daughter disappeared.

To Marc Klaas, child advocate, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, what do you think after speaking her very thoughts through hundreds of text messages?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I think that what we`re seeing here is a girl whose life changed dramatically, in her mind for the better, once her child was gone. She was complaining a lot beforehand, having these issues with her mother, being sort of tethered to the home itself. But once Caylee was gone, in her mind, she seemed to blossom. She got to go to the party. She got to go out. She got to have the life that she seemed to really want.

And I think just like others before her, Michael (ph) Peterson, Scott Peterson, Mark Hacking, most importantly, Susan Smith, there was a child in the way of the life they wanted, and the best way to get the life they wanted, apparently, in their minds, was to eliminate the person that was the hindrance.

GRACE: Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter who actually put up the original $500,000 bond. You`ve read through these text messages. What do you see? Does it confirm your original thoughts?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, my original thoughts were that she`d given the baby away or the baby was somewhere out of the residence. But obviously...

GRACE: But did you just see what we`ve just put up...

PADILLA: Yes.

GRACE: ... that she left behind the baby doll?

PADILLA: And what Marc just said is absolutely correct, I`m telling you. He hit it -- hit the nail right on the head. And if you go to the excuses that she was building already back on the 27th, if you look at that and take that apart word by word, where she says to her friend, I got rid of the squirrel, I scraped it off the side of the car -- that was done -- I`m telling you, it was done on the evening of the, 26th when that car ran out of gas and it was next to a dumpster. And it was probably by luck that she considered it, Hey, I`ve got rid of the body now, except the bag ripped and left a decomposing portion of the body in the trunk.

GRACE: Leonard Padilla, I could not hear what you were saying. What was the date that she stated she scraped the animal off her car?

PADILLA: I believe it was the 27th, if you look in those documents.

GRACE: Yes. So that`s three separate stories, trying to explain away the smell of human decay within the car.

We are taking your calls live. To Tammy in Illinois. Hi, Tammy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Evening, Nancy. Love you, love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for sharing your beautiful babies with your viewing family.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, Nancy, I`m wondering, wouldn`t it be better if Casey did not live with her parents at this particular time? In other words, if Casey was on her own, let`s say, in a more desperate, destitute situation, would she psychologically be more inclined to crack under the pressure and perhaps provide more information to authorities as to what might have happened to Caylee?

GRACE: You know, Tammy, that`s an interesting question. Caryn Stark, do you think anything will make her give up the truth?

STARK: I really don`t, Nancy, because you`re not talking about somebody who`s in touch with any of her feelings. And so how could -- it wouldn`t make a bit of a difference whether she was with her parents or not. She doesn`t understand to feel sorry about any of this.

GRACE: Take a listen to part of the police interrogation.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go back to your statement. You dropped off your - - you dropped off Caylee on June 9, and walk me through. You dropped her off to go work?

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Get off of work and -- go from there.

CASEY ANTHONY: I got off of work, left Universal, driving back to pick up Caylee, like a normal day. And I show up to the apartment, knock on the door. Nobody answers. So I called Zenaida`s cell phone, and it`s out of service. It says that the phone is no longer in service. Excuse me.

So I sit down on the steps and wait for a little bit to see if maybe it was just a fluke, if something happened. And time passed. I didn`t hear from anyone. No one showed up to the house. So I went over to Jay Blanchard Park and checked a couple other places where maybe possibly they would`ve gone, a couple stores, just regular places that I know Zenaida shops at and she`s taken Caylee before.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How long ago would you say you dropped the child off there from the beginning of -- end of `06, beginning of `07 to...

CASEY ANTHONY: I think about six, seven months, so maybe the middle of 2007.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she moved into Sawgrass about the middle of `07?

CASEY ANTHONY: She`s been at that apartment in Sawgrass for about the last three or four months. She`d lived with her mom for a little bit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had you dropped the child off there before?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had to find the place, would you be able to find it?

CASEY ANTHONY: Most likely, yes. I think I`d remember the house.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to go through this, and I want you to stop me at the part that isn`t the truth, OK? You take your daughter and you drop her off on June the 9th, OK...

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... at somebody -- at a baby-sitter`s house, OK? Now, this is a baby-sitter that lives at this apartment, OK, that`s been vacant...

CASEY ANTHONY: I dropped her off at that apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CASEY ANTHONY: At those stairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you just walked her -- you dropped her off and...

CASEY ANTHONY: I walked her to the stairs. That`s where I`ve dropped her off a bunch of other times besides just that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And when you dropped her off, who took her at that point?

CASEY ANTHONY: Zanny did. She took her at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you left her in Zanny`s care...

CASEY ANTHONY: Uh-huh.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... on June the 9th, OK? So far, that`s right?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You mentioned something before we went on tape about your cell phones.

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes. I have two phones. I had just received a new phone through work, through Universal. The phone won`t keep charged, so I use my old phone that I actually had gotten again through Universal for work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Did you lose the phone?

CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And in that phone, you`re saying, was a SIM card and the SIM card had the contact information?

CASEY ANTHONY: Actually, the SIM card is in my Nokia phone, but I know there`s numbers saved to the cell phone itself. So if we get the actual phone, I know I have one other number for Zenaida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But they`re not in your SIM card?

CASEY ANTHONY: They`re not saved on the SIM card, they`re saved on the phone. I`ve been trying to figure out on that new phone how to save numbers from the phone to the SIM card and switch them back and forth so that I have everything all in one piece.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were so many text messages that Casey received and also that she sent out, and those were her favorite topics, whom she wanted to have sex with, drinking and smoking pot. That seemed to be the thing she was concentrating on, mostly, not about Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tony Lazzarro, the boyfriend that Casey had, he said all the times they were together, the nights she spent at his house, when they would go out, he never saw her call the baby-sitter, which most moms would check up on their kid, but that apparently is something Casey didn`t do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The thinking behind mom, Casey Anthony`s, actions now being revealed around the time little Caylee went missing, just before and after that fateful of day.

Straight out to the lines. Kelly in Florida. Hi, Kelly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thank you for taking my call.

GRACE: Thank you for calling. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was wondering, my question pertains to that dumpster where Casey Anthony`s car was found out of gas. I was wondering if the police or anyone has checked into what disposal company is responsible for emptying the contents of that dumpster and how often, and more importantly, what landfill or dump site those contents might have been taken to so searchers could perhaps check the landfill for remains?

GRACE: Well, Kelly, you`re right on point because a new theory has emerged that little Caylee was put in the dumpster there at the local Amscot check-cashing company.

I want to go out to Mark Williams with WNDB. What can you tell me about this theory? It`s very reminiscent of the disposal of Lori Hacking`s body.

WILLIAMS: Well, the latest theory, and it`s in a published report, is that the little girl, Caylee, possibly drowned in her family`s swimming pool...

GRACE: OK, wa-wa-wa-wa-wait. Just let me shoot that down right now...

WILLIAMS: OK.

GRACE: ... because that does not explain the premeditation behind the computer Web searches for chloroform and the chloroform in the car. That doesn`t fit with an accident in the -- in the swimming pool. But I`m talking about disposal of a body in a dumpster. That`s what I asked you.

WILLIAMS: Well, there`s a theory that she deposited of the body in that dumpster near the Amscot check-cashing place where she left her car.

GRACE: Is that a police theory?

WILLIAMS: That is in a published report, and I think police are right now looking at that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RICHARD GRUND, DAD OF CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE, JESSE GRUND: I spotted right then and there she was pregnant, but she was telling everybody she had female problems and she wasn`t pregnant. My son came in, and told me that that`s Casey, the girl that I dated.

And I said, well, son, she`s pregnant. Oh, no, no. She`s only got female problems. I asked her about that, that`s what she has told everybody, including her family.

I said, no, I know a woman that`s pregnant. She was pregnant.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Grund says he doesn`t believe Casey would ever intentionally hurt Caylee, but he did say there were times Casey would leave her little girl unattended. Something possibly could have accidentally happened to Caylee, Grund told investigators, and if something accidentally happened to Caylee, I literally believe that Casey would have an emotional break down to the point where I almost believe she would take Caylee and put her somewhere, and then tell herself a new story, a new reality of what happened to her.

The last time Caylee was seen for sure was on Father`s Day, June 15th, when this video was shot. Investigators asked Grund about that week, saying, from the 17th through the 23rd, none of your friends, you or any of your friends, can account for where Casey or the child are?

And Grund answered, correct, no idea. It was almost as if she fell off the face of the planet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: A female problem? It was about seven months of a problem, according to mom, Casey Anthony. Never wanting the child, wanting to put the child up for adoption. Now the child is gone. I`m talking about a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, little Caylee.

And back to the accident theory that you just heard, espoused.

To the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Anne Bremner, doesn`t disposal of the body totally defeat -- Anne Bremner -- the theory of an accident? And if I found you dead at the foot of the stairs, obviously, from a fall, would you want me to go bury you in my backyard?

ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No.

GRACE: Why not call 911?

BREMNER: Well, it doesn`t completely defeat it, Nancy. The fact is, she could have had an accident and then panicked and disposed of the body.

GRACE: Panic? Why?

BREMNER: Because she didn`t mean to do anything and she`s -- a very short period of time at which that -- you know I keep thinking the prosecution`s opening statement in this case if they were to charge it would be like Buffalo Springfield.

There`s something happening here and that happened here and what it is ain`t exactly clear. I know the song is "Before Your Time," Nancy, but from mine. And I think that it`s.

GRACE: My advice to you, since you didn`t ask, is don`t use that on a jury.

Renee Rockwell, all the espousing of accident is complete BS, because how can you possibly -- even you two, how can you contort the facts to show accident when you have her Web searches for chloroform?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, there`s not going to be a trial until they suppose there is a homicide.

GRACE: If you could just answer the question. That would be helpful.

ROCKWELL: You have to have a crime before you can put up a defensive accident.

GRACE: OK. So I`m assuming.

ROCKWELL: You don`t see any indictment, do you?

GRACE: I`m assuming you`re not going to answer. Let`s go to Ron.

ROCKWELL: But, Nancy, what do you have here?

GRACE: No, no, no. Three strikes, you`re out.

Ron Shindel, former NYPD deputy inspector, joining us from Manhattan. All the wishful that this child died in some type of accident, possibly, in the family`s above-ground pool in the backyard, is BS, because we`ve got the mom, according to police sources, on the computer, looking up chloroform. Multiple Web sites.

All this about she panicked, it`s impossible. That does not fit with the facts.

RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Nancy, I`m not buying an accidental theory at all. I think there`s a lot of foul play here. And she -- all of her actions show that she`s covering up something.

There is something here that`s absolutely wrong. Everything that leads up to this day, everything that leads up to the fact that she hid it from her parents, everything that leads up to the interviews that were given by her friends and family.

There is something very wrong here, and it`s not about an accident.

GRACE: You`re seeing new video that we got from ABC News. There`s little Caylee at happier times, playing.

(INAUDIBLE) from the investigation file, Cindy Anthony comes to visit Brittany Schieber at her home, Brittany tells cops what Cindy told her, Caylee was missing. She -- Cindy Anthony -- feels Casey is hiding something.

That Casey originally said she`s going to Jacksonville for a month, job search, she dropped the baby off at the babysitter. That story, of course, later changed to going to Tampa. We also learn about heavy, heavy pot use.

In any way, Anne Bremner, Renee Rockwell -- first to you, Anne Bremner, would extensive use of pot, of voluntary drug use be a defense?

BREMNER: Nancy and I have argued about this from before. And generally, it is not. It`s only in very certain circumstances with specific intent crimes, in about 10 prerequisite types of requirements to even get it before a jury. That`s assuming there is a charge.

GRACE: Renee?

ROCKWELL: I agree with Anne. Nothing is going to work along those lines, Nancy.

GRACE: Out to the lines to Lauren in Alabama. Hi, Lauren.

LAUREN, ALABAMA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. I love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

LAUREN: My question is, does Casey still stand by her story that she dropped Caylee off at Zenaida`s house, or now that the cops found that to be a lie? Or has she made up a new story?

GRACE: To Nikki Pierce with WDBO Radio.

Nikki, that`s a story she`s sticking at -- sticking to with police. But she also told security with Leonard Padilla that she dropped -- that she was at the park, at Jay Blanchard Park, and left the baby with Zenaida Gonzalez and her sister, Samantha.

And they took the child away. Then there`s the story she left her and went away for a month to either Tampa or elsewhere for a job search. But as far as police go, is she still sticking with that story?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Well, as far as police go, Nancy, she hasn`t said a word different, although we know that June 15th now was the last time that she was -- that Caylee was seen on video, and then the morning of June 16th.

Now, the Orange County sheriff, Kevin Berry, has made a specific request to Jose Baez, Casey`s attorney, to ask Casey where she last saw Caylee and when. And they got into a bit of a war of words over that one, to tell you the truth.

Attorney Jose Baez sent back a letter saying, well, nice of you to finally ask, basically, two months later. And it`s a shame. We had to find out about this question through the media, if you really want to talk to my client, you contact me.

GRACE: OK. Mark Williams, what she`s talking about is an exchange between Attorney Jose Baez, the defense attorney for Casey Anthony, and police, where Baez suddenly says, your request for my client`s help in finding my daughter is a day late and a dollar short, and why do I have to find out about this through the media?

Well, the media didn`t know about it until after Baez`s returned letter. So who is to say they didn`t leak it?

MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, that`s true. I mean, and this has become almost like a WWF smack down.

GRACE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: . between these two agencies, between Baez and Orange County Sheriff`s Office investigators. It`s going to be interesting to see where this thing really goes.

GRACE: You know, bottom line, doesn`t matter.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GRACE: It`s not tit for tat. There are facts versus a letter.

WILLIAMS: That`s right.

GRACE: And the only arguing, seems to be, the defense attorney, Jose Baez, I don`t hear any argument from the police. I guess he`s arguing with himself.

To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the Anthony home, have the Anthonys responded in any way to all these text messages and investigative files that have been released?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, Nancy, they have not responded at all to any of these documents that have come out or any of these text messages, either.

GRACE: Let`s see some more of the text messages.

Back to the lawyers, Renee Rockwell, Anne Bremner. Rene, at a certain point, she is inviting people to a hot body contest, to ladies` night. We see her going out for manicures, pedicures. She`s on a roller coaster of men.

How will this play at trial?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, the way I see it now, you have sex, drugs, rock and roll, but no homicide, and that`s why you don`t have an indictment, because once an indictment is filed, it`s on.

And they`re going to file for a speedy trial, and they don`t have enough now. Once they do, you`ll see an indictment, Nancy.

GRACE: OK. Let`s go back to the original question, Anne Bremner. How will that behavioral evidence play at trial?

BREMNER: Well, if the prosecution can get it into evidence and have a judge say that it`s relevant, whether or not she killed her own child, I would argue as a defense attorney that it`s something that`s really not that relevant.

How does it really show, Nancy, I mean when we look at what the definition of relevant evidence here did she kill her child?.

GRACE: Hold on, hold on. Hold on. Let`s see, Anne Bremner. Anne, doesn`t the law state that a defendant`s behavior before, during and immediately.

BREMNER: Sure.

GRACE: . after the deed is relevant? Then what -- if you agree with that, then what are you talking about?

BREMNER: Because it`s not carte blanche, Nancy. It`s not any behavior. And in fact is that she happens to go out and get her nails done or have been socializing.

GRACE: While she`s looking for her daughter that`s missing?

BREMNER: Well, the fact of the matter is, we don`t know exactly when her child was missing.

GRACE: Well, we know that she.

BREMNER: We don`t know a lot in this case.

GRACE: . was last seen around the 16th after Father`s Day.

BREMNER: Sure.

GRACE: And so we do know that.

(CROSSTALK)

BREMNER: The thing is.

GRACE: So just give me the bottom line.

BREMNER: When you`re going to.

GRACE: Will it come into evidence, yes, no?

BREMNER: Part of it will. Part of it will complete a tapestry, Nancy, of a homicide. But you can`t go out and malign somebody just by virtue, boy, that`s she`s in a hot body contest, or she`s dating or sleeping around, or anything else.

GRACE: I don`t care about that.

BREMNER: That`s to prejudicial and doesn`t show that she killed her own child. That`s the question. That`s the question, Nancy, and you know.

GRACE: I don`t care about that, Renee, but it does show lack of remorse.

BREMNER: It depends on the judge.

GRACE: It shows she`s not out looking for the little girl. These text messages are.

BREMNER: That`s different.

GRACE: . feeding a case to the prosecution on a silver platter, Renee.

BREMNER: Yes and no.

ROCKWELL: Yes, Nancy, but we don`t know if she thought the baby was missing at that time.

GRACE: We know it was after the 16th, Renee. That`s when she was last seen.

ROCKWELL: I know that but we don`t know if she thought the baby was missing at that time.

GRACE: So bottom line, are you trying to argue it won`t come into evidence?

ROCKWELL: I`m saying, they`ll try to get it in, but a defense attorney will try to keep it out, saying it`s not probative, it`s prejudicial, and it`s not relevant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The search continues for four missing children that police were taken by their own mother, who did not have custody. The four children who were all younger than 15, are said to be in extreme danger, and investigators are desperate to find them.

Authorities say 39-year-old Shirley Riggs took the children during an unsupervised overnight visit a few days ago and may be taking the children out of state, possibly to Oregon or Colorado.

Reports say this is the fourth time that Riggs has taken the children. Police say Riggs is traveling in a 1992 Dodge Caravan with Missouri license plates.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She panicked. She went to her lawyer the day before she left because she was afraid that she was going to lose them. She had been setting up this house all summer to give the children and it keeps getting delayed and delayed.

She won`t hurt the kids. My daughter is a wonderful person, a wonderful mom. Couldn`t be a better mom than my daughter. She loves her kids. She takes good care of them. She`ll do for them before she`ll do for herself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Confusing. She loved them so much she didn`t have custody of them? To Aisha Sultan, home and family editor of the "St. Louis Post- Dispatch," what do we know, Aisha, as to why she didn`t have custody of the children to start with?

AISHA SULTAN, ST. LOUIS POST-DISPATCH, WWW.STL.COM/PARENTSTALKBACK: That it is the interesting question, because it seems as though the children have not been in her legal custody for some time. For some time, the paternal grandparents, it looks like, had temporary custody of these four children.

And then at some point, the state had custody of the children. And the reasons why are, you know, sealed in juvenile records. But that -- it does bring up that question as to why she hasn`t had custody of these children for a while.

GRACE: Weigh in, Marc Klaas.

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER, BEYONDMISSING.COM, FATHER OF MURDER VICTIM POLLY KLAAS: Well, I think the point was made a couple of days ago that this woman, you could just tell by looking at her that she seems to have some instability problems.

Law enforcement has put out a notification that there seemed to have been a psychiatric test done on her, and that they had concerns about that. That`s why they put out the AMBER Alert in the first place.

But I would contend that two things have to happen here. She is, number one, demonstrated that she is not responsible for unsupervised visits. Therefore, she shouldn`t be allowed to have unsupervised visits.

And if the state cannot afford to supervise these visits, she should have all of her parental rights taken away. There`s nothing written in stone that says that since you`ve given birth to a child, that somehow you have a right to visit that child.

Her behavior and her husband`s behavior is immature. It`s irresponsible, it puts the children between them as pawns in this bitter battle that they seem to be waging. And I think probably the best thing that should happen, if and when these children are recovered, is that they should be removed from this woman, once and for all.

GRACE: Back to Aisha Sultan with "St. Louis Post-Dispatch," tell me the circumstances surrounding their kidnap.

SULTAN: She had an unsupervised visit with them on Friday and when she was supposed to return them on Saturday, she never showed up.

GRACE: And?

SULTAN: And so there is absolutely no indication about, you know, where those kids might be right now. I mean, there are reports that she might be taking them to Oregon, she might be taking them to Colorado.

But really, I mean, there`s severe concern as to what -- where these kids might be.

GRACE: I want to go out to expert, Dean Wideman, forensics expert. Is there any way, if the car were recovered empty that we could prove the children and the mother had been in the car?

DEAN WIDEMAN, FORENSICS EXPERT: Yes. I mean, you can look for trace evidence, like hair, skin cell DNA, you know, any biological material to link with DNA analysis.

GRACE: But if we`re trying to prove a case, everyone, Dean Wideman -- everyone, Dean Wideman, a forensics expert joining us tonight. Even if you found the children and the mom`s DNA in the car -- say the car is abandoned -- there`s no real way to date it.

That could have been left there back in the day when she had the children rightfully.

WIDEMAN: That`s correct. Right. You can`t age DNA. It could have been there from, yes, months or weeks or years before. That`s true.

GRACE: What else could we look for in that car to show they were all in there together, recently?

WIDEMAN: That`s a tough one, unless someone was injured recently, or there`s any kind of blood or what -- you know, some bodily fluid that.

GRACE: Yes. Yes.

WIDEMAN: You know, some body fluid that would tie them there, you know, to recent times.

GRACE: Or Ron Shindel, we could look for receipts from fast food where you see multiple orders. You could look for items belonging to them, possibly clothing items or toys they had with them around the time they disappeared?

SHINDEL: Nancy, exactly. I mean, this is a family of four children and a mother. They`re traveling any distance, they`re going to be stopping. They`re going to be hitting fast food outlets, they`re going to stopping to -- hit other retail places.

There may be receipts in there and it may lead them -- may give police a trail of where they`ve been and exactly which direction they`re heading.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, psychologist, we heard the grandmother saying she`s such a great mom. Maybe she was a great mom, but she lost custody and is now on the run. Police say the children are in danger.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, and they`re saying that they`re in danger, to me, Nancy, means abuse or neglect. Something was really wrong or they would have let her have custody.

In addition, which four times, four times she ran away with these children.

GRACE: Tip line, 816-325-7258.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She panicked because the kids (INAUDIBLE), and she didn`t want to lose them and that`s why she -- I`m worried about it all. What will happen next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Four children alleged to be in extreme danger. Their non- custodial mom -- translation, she did not have custody -- on the run with them.

Let`s see the map. To Aisha Sultan with the "St. Louis Post- Dispatch," why do police believe that she could be headed to Oregon, Colorado or New Mexico? And Oklahoma. Why?

SULTAN: Well, she`s believed to have, maybe perhaps, some relatives or friends, but in the past, when she did take the children once before, she did go to Oregon and was there for some time with the children.

GRACE: Where? What`s in Oregon that she goes to?

SULTAN: There are reports she had relatives there. And that`s why she was in Oregon.

GRACE: Ron Shindel, what do you advise at this juncture?

SHINDEL: At this point, what they want to do is they want to look from where she started and possibly head west. That`s what -- that`s where it leads to, is west. So you have 600 miles out to Denver. There`s a lot of area out there to look at it.

GRACE: Marc Klaas?

KLAAS: I mentioned this the other night. What you want to do is you want to do a routing distribution of AMBER Alerts. It`s already been mentioned that there may be fast food receipts in the car.

Well, if those fast food outlets already had a notification that this women was on the run, and she showed up at the window, there`s a very real chance that this could have ended.

Unfortunately, when the AMBER Alert was created in the beginning, they didn`t take these contingencies into account. And therefore we have a less imperfect system.

GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, you`re exactly correct. That`s how little Shasta Groene was discovered after her horrible kidnap.

Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Jesse Ault, 28, Dublin, Virginia, killed, Iraq, on a second tour, reenlisted in place of his wife who was recalled to active duty all so she could stay behind with the children.

Loved University of West Virginia mountaineers, Denver Broncos, Atlanta Braves, fishing, golfing, sledding with his son. Leaves behind parents Ronald and Virginia, widow Betsy, two sons and a baby girl, best friend Travis.

Jesse Ault, American hero

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/24/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

More Police Interrogation Audiotapes Released in Casey Anthony Case

Aired September 25, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 14 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. In the last hours, new police audiotapes surface in the search for little Caylee. For the first time on tape, three of the many men in mom, Casey`s, life tell police their story of what happened when Caylee disappeared. In their own words during police interrogations, brother Lee Anthony, ex-fiance Jesse Grund and live-in lover Tony Lazzarro (ph) caught on tape.

Bombshell documents reveal mom, Casey, sends 561 text messages, only two -- repeat, only two out of 561 -- are about Caylee. Reports surface mom, Casey, now tells family members little Caylee was sold in Puerto Rico. And exclusively tonight, mom, Casey`s, neighbor with us live tonight. Where is Caylee?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: I was at my mom`s house within five minutes. When I arrived, go through the garage door like I typically do. There was -- the only vehicle in there was my -- the vehicle drove -- driven by my sister, the white Pontiac. The trunk was open. The windows were rolled down to what I assume ventilate the horrible smell that I had just smelled for the first time, and went inside the house to see if anybody was there. Nobody was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The smell filled up the garage.

LEE ANTHONY: Yes, it was -- it was -- it hit you like a wave (ph). I mean, it was -- it was whatever it was, was very potent.

My mother and father told me that my dad actually drove the car back, because my mother was talking about how she didn`t know how my dad survived it because the smell was so bad.

(LAUGHTER)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: I don`t understand why they`re laughing. Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Bombshell police audiotapes of witness interrogations -- those witnesses, three of the many men in mom, Casey`s, life -- just released.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: Well, I kept saying, Well, I don`t get it. What`s in it for you? Why are you letting, you know, the police get involved with this? This seems -- this doesn`t make any sense to me. She`s, like, Well, maybe this should have been done a long time ago. Stolen money from Mom. I`ve been a bad daughter. You know, I`ve been -- she said, I`ve stolen money from you. You know, I`ve been untrustworthy, you know? And she goes, And I have been a -- a -- you know, a bad mother, a daughter and sister. She said, you know, So this should have been done a long time ago.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JESSE GRUND, CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE: Do I believe it`s possible that someone -- that Caylee did have a nanny and Casey lied to her enough about her family that she thinks that she`s protecting them right now, that she thinks she`s protecting Caylee? I don`t see why not. We can all tell that from the last couple of years, Casey is a very effective liar. I think I`d use the word diabolical to describe the way she lies.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said the sister told you that -- because I`m a spiteful (DELETED) And did she yell that so Mom could hear it, or she just whispered that to you, or what was...

LEE ANTHONY: She doesn`t whisper it. She didn`t -- she didn`t also say it necessarily, make it a point to say it as loud as my mom can hear it. When I asked her, Why won`t you, you know, allow us to see Caylee? And she said, Well, maybe I`m a spiteful (DELETED).

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What`s the latest, Drew?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, the latest are these new tapes. We read the interviews, the -- those almost 600 pages of interviews. These are some of the audio versions of those tapes. We hear from Lee Anthony. We hear from her current boyfriend at the time, Tony Lazzarro, and we also hear from her ex-fiance, Jesse Grund. And you know, some of the tapes contain, you know, some of the things we`ve been talking about that are, you know, very concerning in this investigation.

GRACE: Well, "concerning" is one way to put it. Everyone, we are taking your calls live. Tonight, the audiotapes supporting what we have only had reported us to -- those audiotapes just released. We`re playing them right now. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: Every time my mother would go outside, I`d try to ask something to my sister that maybe she wouldn`t feel comfortable saying in front of my mom, you know, asking, What`s -- you know, What`s going on? You know, What`s the deal? She still maintained everything, but (ph) she would say -- that`s when she opened up to me and said, Mom has thrown it in my face many times before that I`m an unfit mother, and you know, maybe she`s right, maybe I am.

She offered up to me for the first time that my mother has referred -- said to my sister that even though Caylee`s been the best thing and the best mistake, that she was, indeed, a mistake, that she was Casey`s mistake.

When I kept saying, Well, I don`t get it. What`s in it for you? Why are you letting, you know, the police get involved with this? This seems - - this doesn`t make any sense to me. She`s, like, Well, maybe this should have been done a long time ago. Stolen money from mom. I`ve been a bad daughter. You know, I`ve been -- she said, I`ve stolen money from you. You know, I`ve been untrustworthy, you know? And she goes, And maybe I have been a -- a -- you know, a bad mother, a daughter and sister. And she said, you know, So this should have been done a long time ago.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: What does that mean, "This should have been done a long time ago"? And now to Nikki Pierce with WDBO. Nikki, what of this story that - - a whole new story that we`re hearing from mom, Casey Anthony, apparently telling her family little Caylee has been sold in Puerto Rico?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, Nancy, apparently, she managed to convince her mother that Caylee had been sold in Puerto Rico. We got some text messages in these documents between Casey`s ex-fiance Jesse Grund and her ex-friend, Amy Huizenga, who she stole the money and checks from. Apparently, Jesse was implying to Amy that a theory had been floated that Caylee was sold in Puerto Rico. Amy and several of her friends, including Casey`s ex-boyfriend, Ricardo Morales, had just been in Puerto Rico. But there`s no evidence to support that, according to the Orange County sheriff`s office.

GRACE: Just released, bombshell audiotapes of three of the many men in mom, Casey Anthony`s, life. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: I sat in the garage with my sister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With the car right there?

LEE ANTHONY: With the car right there. And it was atrocious. And I couldn`t be there anymore for a minute or two, and I had to keep going back inside because the smell was so bad. I sat down with her, and when I referenced the car smell, she said, Well, it actually started around Mom`s birthday, when -- which was again, June 5. She said, It started around that time, when two dead squirrels crawled up under the hood of the car, you know, and they died in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You gave her a slap of reality.

LEE ANTHONY: So I gave her probably a good 10, 15 seconds to respond, until I gave her kind of like a shrugged shoulders look of, you know, What`s it going to be? What are you going say? And then at that moment is when Casey began to break down and cry. And she said, Lee, do you want to know the truth? I haven`t seen Caylee in 31 days. And then she repeated herself. I haven`t seen my daughter in 31 days. And at this point, her hands are in her face. (INAUDIBLE) Her hands are in her face and she`s crying.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to the lines. To Rose in New Jersey. Hi, Rose.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. How are you this evening?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The only sign of emotion I`ve seen from Casey Anthony is when she was first arrested and she was in the courtroom and she started to cry. Now, was she crying because she had lost her daughter, or was she crying because she was going jail?

GRACE: You know, Rose, our reporter said that during all the conversations regarding little Caylee, she remained stone-faced. When they started talking about her having to stay behind bars, that is when she started crying, according to our reporters.

Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers." What about that, Bethany?

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well, and the other time she cries just now is when her brother gives her 15 seconds, and then she has a chance to decide whether or not he`s going call the police. And it`s at that point that she puts her face in her hands.

And you know, one of the things she keeps saying is the mom says, I`m an unfit mother. In a way, she`s saying, This is an excuse for all I`ve done. And then she says, This should have been done a long time ago. I think she`s trying to pin the police being called on check kiting and stealing money and stealing gas and all of that, doing a switcheroo instead of blaming it where it belongs, which is that her daughter is missing.

GRACE: You know -- to Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the Anthony home in Orlando. Natisha, what is the word on all of the e-mails that were deleted right around the time little Caylee went missing.

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Lee Anthony also told investigators that when he checked Casey`s e-mail account, all of the e- mails, even the spam, had been deleted prior to July 15, which is the day Casey had was finally brought home and she was found. So the only thing in there was July 15 and after that.

GRACE: To Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert joining us from Raleigh. Can you go back, Ben, and reconstruct those e-mails?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Absolutely, Nancy. There is nothing that gets erased. As you`ve heard on this show several times, when you erase something on your computer, all you do is mark that space as now available for other uses. So since she obviously didn`t use the computer between the 15th and the time she was arrested, most of those messages can be recovered.

GRACE: To Michael Sapraicone, former NYPD detective. Michael, thank you for being with us. Doesn`t anybody watch TV? Doesn`t anybody know you`ve got to go beat your computer in the front driveway with a sledgehammer if you want to get rid of this information that`s leaving a huge footprint. And she erased all these e-mails.

MICHAEL SAPRAICONE, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Right, Nancy. These things never go away. These are always there. This is are paper trail that police are always looking for. And the computer has just made it such an easy trail for us to track.

GRACE: And you know, why erase only the e-mails around the days Caylee went missing?

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: My father was always -- you know, he would take pride in making sure that stuff`s clean inside. I mean, he always did that. And he would have noticed that smell. I mean, that was -- and I still maintain that. He would have noticed that smell.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: She had been crying. Now, it`s not bawling, mind you, she`d been crying. But when my mother came in and started, What`s going on, and when my sister said, I don`t know where Caylee is, and yet her voices escalates when my mom gets in the room almost combatively. My sister, when she explained that to my mom, I don`t know where Caylee is, and then my mother immediately goes, Who took her? Who took her? And then Casey goes, The nanny did. She was kidnapped, Mom. And then that`s when my mother kind of hit her fist on the bed and said, We could have found her a month ago. Why did you wait? And at that point, my sister is done crying. She`s -- now they`re fighting about, you know, this stuff in the past, instead of trying to focus on the information that we need to get.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: We are now hearing in their own words what happened when the Anthony family finds out little Caylee is missing. Tonight, bombshell audiotapes released. They are audiotapes of three of the many men in mom, Casey Anthony`s, life. And we can report it all we want to, but when you hear it in their own words it`s an entirely different thing.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Atlanta, veteran defense attorney Peter Odom. Also with us tonight out of New York, high- profile lawyer and author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" Mickey Sherman.

You know, Mickey Sherman, a lot of people are suggesting the state has leaked all this. What they are failing to realize -- and it`s the defense in this case that keeps saying things like that -- they are simply complying to discovery. They`re filing all this stuff, all of these tapes, all of these documents in the clerk`s office, as they are told to do under Florida statute, and then the media can get it. Nobody`s leaking anything!

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, there`s something -- well, usually, they do leak it. It goes to somebody close to the detectives or something like that. Here they are basically dumping everything out into the public. Now...

GRACE: They filed it at the clerk`s office. You have a problem with that, Sherman?

SHERMAN: I have a big problem with that.

GRACE: That`s what the statute requires!

SHERMAN: Well, it`s wrong. How can this woman ever get a fair trial when we all know that she`s the crappiest mother on the face of the earth, coming from the creepiest family on the face of the planet? Everyone is totally biased against her. Maybe they should be. But the bottom line is, how could you possibly...

GRACE: I got...

SHERMAN: ... preserve her right to get a fair trial?

GRACE: ... two syllables for you, Sherman.

SHERMAN: Not guilty!

GRACE: O.J., all right?

SHERMAN: Yes.

GRACE: O.J.

SHERMAN: Yes.

GRACE: Everybody yelled, including you, He can`t get a fair trial. He`s going to get convicted.

SHERMAN: I never did.

GRACE: You did, too!

SHERMAN: No, I was one of the people who said he was going to be found not guilty. The bottom line is...

GRACE: But you said the whole jury would know about the trial. You did say that.

SHERMAN: Well, they`d have to be on Mars...

GRACE: You also said...

SHERMAN: ... not to know about it.

GRACE: ... he was going to be -- you did...

(CROSSTALK)

SHERMAN: But it wasn`t -- it wasn`t...

GRACE: ... claim it was going to be a not guilty verdict. That part is true.

SHERMAN: But it wasn`t the DA who dumped all this stuff into the public knowledge.

GRACE: You know...

SHERMAN: There`s something wrong with that.

GRACE: ... Peter Odom -- Peter Odom, take off your defense hat just one moment and give me a straight answer. Isn`t it true that when you -- when your former prosecutor filed your discovery, which you have to do under the statute, you`ve got to give it all to the other side, to the defense prior to trial, didn`t you go file in the clerk`s office also?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, sometimes you do, but you also have the option...

GRACE: Whoa!

ODOM: ... of giving notice...

GRACE: You mean you didn`t file it in the clerk`s office every time?

ODOM: Not always.

GRACE: Why?

ODOM: Because sometimes there was information that we didn`t want made public. And this is information in this case that could have been kept out of the public view had the prosecutor...

GRACE: OK...

ODOM: ... wanted to.

GRACE: Give me...

ODOM: And they could have complied with discovery.

GRACE: ... the name of a case where you did not file your discovery in the clerk`s office.

ODOM: I can give you several, Nancy. In, for example...

GRACE: Give it!

ODOM: In, for example, the Tessler (ph) case that I tried in Atlanta, discovery was provided to the defense, but it was not filed with the clerk`s office and it was kept out of public view. And the only thing that is now available to public view are things that were entered into evidence at that trial. And that was quite a high-profile trial.

GRACE: You know, Peter Odom, it`s the first time when I`ve asked a defense attorney to name a case they`ve been able to do it. I disagree with you, but I respect that answer.

Let`s go to the lines. Pat in Illinois. Hi, Pat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a question. Through all of this, for a girl who has lied about everything and really had no visible means of support, wouldn`t the -- wouldn`t there be a money trail? You know how they say in a case, Follow the money? Wouldn`t there be some type of a money trail of whether or not there was actually a baby-sitter paid? And how does someone who`s not working hire a nanny?

GRACE: You know, you are so dead on, Pat in Illinois. I mean, this woman was stealing from her friends just to put gas in the car.

Michael Sapraicone is with us, former NYPD. Michael, she`s right. This woman had to siphon gas out of her family`s cars to keep her car going. She doesn`t have a money trail. She didn`t pay a nanny. There was no nanny.

SAPRAICONE: Right. This is all part of her made-up story here, Nancy. And she`s obviously a pathological liar, and we`re seeing that more and more. And once you start that little lie, they build into bigger lies and bigger lies, and that`s the path she`s following.

GRACE: We`re talking about her deleting reams of e-mails the days around Caylee`s disappearance. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Give me that list of items again.

LEE ANTHONY: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tony`s apartment at Sutton Place.

LEE ANTHONY: Yes. This was around midnight. I went and picked up my sister`s laptop. Well, it`s actually my mom`s laptop, but you know, my sister was -- she`s had it for that past month or so. So the laptop, a very large leopard print duffel bag that had all of her clothing and items in there, a backpack, a white backpack with kind of a -- you know, a pattern or, you know, a symbol on that. It also had some more clothing items in there. A large purse and some -- you know, some kind of, you know, female items, you know, things like that, like her toiletries and that kind of stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In your investigation, you found that your sister`s Yahoo! mail account from the date of July 15 has been deleted.

LEE ANTHONY: Yes. Every bit of mail sent, received...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that June 15 or July 15?

LEE ANTHONY: July 15.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So June 15 to July 15 exists, but from July 15 -- so did that kind of lead you...

LEE ANTHONY: No. No. I`m saying the information that`s in there now is July 15, 16, 17, 18, everything to present. Anything predating...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior?

LEE ANTHONY: Yes. I`m sorry. So everything pre-dating July 15, nothing is in there. There`s no saved e-mails. There`s no spam. There`s no inbox messages. There`s no sent mail. There`s nothing. Everything predating July 15.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing prior?

LEE ANTHONY: Nothing.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: She offered up to me for the first time that my mother has referred -- said to my sister that even though Caylee`s been the best thing and the best mistake, that she was indeed a mistake, that she was Casey`s mistake.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: Joining us tonight is a very special guest -- we are taking your calls live -- Brittany Schieber, a neighbor of the Anthony family. Ms. Schieber, thank you for being with us.

BRITTANY SCHIEBER, ANTHONY FAMILY NEIGHBOR: You`re welcome. Thank you for having me.

GRACE: Ms. Schieber, what has been the Anthonys` response after they learned about the human decomposition in the car?

SCHIEBER: Actually, I have not talked to them since the whole decomposition issue came up.

GRACE: How were they prior to that?

SCHIEBER: I actually only talked to Cindy the very first day that Caylee was reported missing, and they all were a wreck. But after that, I actually have not talked to them since.

GRACE: Is it true that Ms. Anthony told you Casey Anthony was going to Jacksonville to look for a job?

SCHIEBER: Yes, ma`am, that she had some -- something for her job she had to do and that she was going to be in Jacksonville for a month.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE GRUND, CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE: I never -- I didn`t know enough about Caylee and the pool. I knew that they like to -- and I knew that Caylee loved the pool, but I never actually seen Caylee in the pool.

Now I was under the understanding that they actually had to move the ladder because Caylee kept trying to get into the pool and things of that nature.

I believe at any point in time something possibly could have accidentally happened to Caylee and if something accidentally happened to Caylee, I literally believed that Casey would have an emotional breakdown, a mental breakdown to the point where I almost believe that she would take Caylee and put her somewhere and then -- tell herself a new story, a new reality of what happened to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, bombshell audiotapes have been released. They are police interrogations of three of the men in mom Casey Anthony`s life. We hear, in their own words, what happened around the time little Caylee went missing.

To Dr. Bethany Marshall -- Bethany, when someone has a breakdown, you don`t continue functioning normally. You don`t go out every night. You don`t party, you don`t have the wherewithal to lie and have a complete farce, 24/7, 365, that you`ve got a job at Universal.

That`s not what a breakdown is.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": No. You`re absolutely correct.

Jesse Grund does use the word mental breakdown and that implies a mental vulnerability, an unraveling. Maybe -- a mental breakdown is what we saw in the astronaut that drove all night in the diapers and then tried to get a hold of her supposed rival.

There was sort of an irrational chaotic aspect to her functioning. But, no, Casey was out on a stripper pole partying and having a good time. She`s not delusional and she`s not diluting herself even about her own spitefulness.

She says I`m a spiteful B-I-T-C-H, which implies that she knows that even though she didn`t want Casey, she didn`t want her mom and dad to have her either, and that is true malice and spite, not a mental breakdown.

GRACE: Back to the neighbor of the Anthony family, Brittany Schieber is with us tonight.

Welcome, Miss Schieber. Now, isn`t it true that Casey Anthony, after little Caylee went missing, invited you out to that hot body contest. Do you remember when that was?

BRITTANY SCHIEBER, NEIGHBOR OF ANTHONY FAMILY, HAS KNOWN TOT MOM SINCE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL: I know it was between the 9th of June and the 25th because from the 9th to the 25th when -- was when she was actually contacting me about going out pretty much two days, three days a week.

GRACE: How long have you all known each other?

SCHIEBER: I`ve grown up with Casey since I was about 5.

GRACE: What do you make of all this, Brittany?

SCHIEBER: I don`t know what to make of all this. This is crazy to me because I actually never saw this coming.

GRACE: Who supported little Caylee? Who paid the bills and bought her diapers and clothes and food?

SCHIEBER: Well, I originally thought it was Casey, but until I talked to Cindy I found out it was Cindy.

GRACE: Were you ever aware that Casey Anthony was so jealous of her mother`s bond with little Caylee?

SCHIEBER: No. Never.

GRACE: It never showed?

SCHIEBER: Not at all. No. Not at all.

GRACE: Did she portray to you as well that she had that job at Universal?

SCHIEBER: Actually, we never spoke -- well, we spoke about getting things a couple of times but she would tell that she would work in the mornings and then I work at night, so our schedules were very different but she never told me where she worked.

GRACE: Brittany, the number of times she asked you to go out and party became more frequent?

SCHIEBER: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: When?

SCHIEBER: Well, like I said, she was contacting me between the 9th of June and the 25th of June and it was once, twice, three times a week depending on the week.

GRACE: Where would she want you to go?

SCHIEBER: To Club Fusion.

GRACE: Did you ever ask her who was taking care of Caylee?

SCHIEBER: No, I didn`t.

GRACE: Did she ever.

SCHIEBER: I assumed it was her parents.

GRACE: Uh-huh, uh-huh.

SCHIEBER: I.

GRACE: Go ahead.

SCHIEBER: No, I said I just assumed it was her parents.

GRACE: Did Cindy Anthony ever reveal to you that she believed her daughter Casey was hiding something about little Caylee`s disappearance?

SCHIEBER: Yes, she did. The morning of the 16th when I talked to Cindy she`d told me that she believed Casey was guilty of something and she did not know what, but she didn`t care if it ended up with Casey being behind bars for the rest of her life as long ass she got Caylee home.

GRACE: Did Miss Anthony ever describe jealousy problems between her and Casey Anthony?

SCHIEBER: Cindy, yes, she told me that her and Casey had issues with Caylee being closer to Cindy and that Casey was angry about it.

GRACE: Did she reveal that she had offered to adopt little Caylee?

SCHIEBER: Yes, she did. That way Casey could live her life, go out as much as she want to, and whenever she wanted to go back to be a full mother to Caylee, she could, but Casey refused.

GRACE: Did Casey become angry about it?

SCHIEBER: From what Cindy said, yes.

GRACE: When was that offer made?

SCHIEBER: I am not quite sure. I understand it was a few times, actually, but I`m not quite sure around the time period it was.

GRACE: Have you seen a change in demeanor of George and Cindy Anthony during this time?

SCHIEBER: Cindy, yes, because when I first -- like I said, she was tore up, like she barely could speak. She couldn`t get herself together. I never saw George at beginning, but now Cindy has had a complete change, yes.

GRACE: With us tonight is a special guest, a long time neighbor of the Anthony family, has known Casey Anthony since they were little children. We are playing just-released audiotapes of police interrogation of three of the men in mom Casey Anthony`s life.

Here is her ex-fiance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRUND: Caylee loved that playhouse. That was like her own little house. She loved everything about it. She had her own little phone in there. She had her own kitchen set. I mean she absolutely and totally loved the playhouse.

Every time I`d go outside and play with Caylee, every time I`d get the chance, it was right to the playhouse. Every time. She spent a lot of time out there, with her grandparents and with Casey.

I believe that Casey -- if something would have happened to her, that would have been the first place that she would have put Caylee if she wanted to place Caylee`s body somewhere.

Could she have ripped off the wrong person there or pissed off the wrong person? Absolutely. Could she become a drug user to appease Tony? She became a Yankee fan to appease me and she hates the Yankees.

She does things to chameleon -- she`s like a chameleon when she`s with a guy. You know, Ricardo smokes pot, she starts smoking pot when she`s with Ricardo. You know? I -- my family is Christian, she started doing things in regards to religious practices with us to fit in with our family.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Mom blurts out something, kind of put you in an embarrassing way. Can you tell me about that again?

GRUND: Her and Casey started having an argument about something and I stuck up for Casey and I said, please don`t do this while I`m here. Don`t talk to her like that and I love your daughter, and then she immediately just throws Casey under the bus, a proverbial term, just lays her out there.

How do you want to be with somebody who`s got no future? She didn`t even go back to get her high school education. You know? She`s got a job at a place where she doesn`t really even make enough money to support Caylee.

I`m doing -- I`m the one supporting Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: The 27th Casey calls you?

GRUND: Correct.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Worried about you.

GRUND: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Due to your situation.

GRUND: Correct, yes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: And she wanted you to go to Fusion.

GRUND: Correct. Yes, sir. I declined, and I asked her -- well, first I asked her, well, where`s Caylee? Why -- you know you`re going to Fusion? At this point I know that she had a falling out with her mother.

How -- who`s watching Caylee? And that`s when she tells me Caylee is with the nanny at the beach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines, to Cindy in Maryland, hi, Cindy.

CINDY, MARYLAND RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

CINDY: I would like to know a little bit about this Amy, her friend? How come she was using Amy`s car if she has a car and who nowadays keeps checks in their car?

GRACE: OK.

CINDY: Most people.

GRACE: Let`s go out to Nikki Pierce. Why was she using Amy`s car?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Amy Huizinga had left and gone to Puerto Rico on vacation and allowed Casey to use the car while she was gone. By that time Casey had already abandoned her own car having her boyfriend at the time Tony Lazzaro come and pick her up.

She told Tony that she`d run out of gas, which we now know is probably not the case.

GRACE: You know, I know it`s crazy, but instead of borrowing someone else`s car there`s always the alternative of filling up the tank, but that is exactly why she was borrowing Amy Huizinga`s car.

Everyone, as we go to break, we are taking your calls live and I want to send out a special thank you to June Pace, my childhood bible school teacher from my little church in Macon, Georgia, for sending me a set of matching angels, one pink and one blue holding a little boy and girl.

Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: (INAUDIBLE) thing is, on the receipts that you located that your sister had here. Nothing strikes you being normal purchases for a baby?

LEE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S BROTHER: Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: No, no diapers, no.

ANTHONY: Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: . juice boxes, no.

ANTHONY: Nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Your niece was not potty trained?

ANTHONY: Not completely no. She was still using diapers.

ANTHONY LAZZARO, CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-BOYFRIEND: He would wake up and - - or wake me up either in the middle of the night or I would just wake up in the middle of the night and see that she was sweaty in bed, and I would ask her why and she said that she would have -- she was having a nightmare or something and then would bring up a nightmare pertaining to our relationship.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: So how often did she wake up like that?

LAZZARO: Actually, she would actually be -- I`d say that happened a couple of times.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: OK.

LAZZARO: I would say maybe two, maybe four times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Audiotapes just released as part of Florida statute discovery requirements and now we are hearing in their own words not just reports. We are hearing in their own words what three of the men in mom Casey Anthony`s life had to say about the time little Caylee went missing.

We are taking your calls live and we`re playing you those audiotapes, practically as we get them in. They have just been released in the last hours.

Out to Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist at John J. College of Criminal Justice., a famed forensic scientist now on the payroll of the defense.

Kobi, that aside, the waters have largely subsided around the area where little Caylee went missing. If her remains were there, say, in a wooded area what would you expect to find at this point?

LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST, CONSULTANT TO CASEY ANTHONY DEFENSE TEAM: Well, Nancy, a body immersed in water will decomposed at a rate about half as fast as if a body were exposed to the air, but as the water recedes the decomposition rate speeds up, scavengers are present, bones that are left behind may be dispersed in various areas in these wooded areas.

Clothing may be scattered here and there and again, we really don`t know what the situation is. This is a hypothetical. I hope to God that the child is still alive.

GRACE: I want to go to bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California, who first posted the half a million dollar bail to release mom Casey Anthony from jail. He later came off that bond. Leonard Padilla is with us.

Leonard, I was thinking when I showed the little angel that a bible school teacher has sent me that Caylee will never have those memories, those happy childhood memories.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, MET WITH TOT CASE INVESTIGATORS: No, that`s.

GRACE: None of that.

PADILLA: That`s for sure. I`ve got six grandsons and I run roll call just about every day if not twice a day, but let me explain something to you about the people that still think she`s alive.

They are precluding, forgetting the FBI lab and the University of Tennessee air samples.

GRACE: What`s the cause.

PADILLA: And the other thing.

GRACE: . is because they want to.

PADILLA: I know. I know, but you have to be factual about these things.

GRACE: Yes.

PADILLA: . and you have to understand. There is a recyclable -- recycling bin where she parked the car.

GRACE: Like a dumpster?

PADILLA: Exactly.

GRACE: There is a large bin for just your regular dumping. If you go to the recycling company and find out if they excluded any bins that were brought in on the 27th, 28th or 29th, to be recycled because if there`s a dead cat or dead dog or something in there that does not allow the proper sorting of the recyclable materials, they will tag it and set it off the site and then take it out to the land fill, I believe, is where they take it.

Now I don`t know if law enforcement has looked at that angle or not, but I`m telling you, because of the clothes that she had that the mom washed right away, that is probably a good, good alternative to big bin which might have been difficult for her to put the stuff in.

When that garbage bag that had the body in broke, that`s what got stuff all over her clothes.

Another thing that you brought up last night, she -- you know there`s always some truths in what Casey says. When she said that Universal gave her the cell phone, the cell phone was given, but not by Universal. It was given to her by Richard Grund.

There`s always a speck of truth in everything she says. The phone was, yes, given to her, but not by Universal. Richard Grund gave her that phone.

GRACE: To Dr. Bethany Marshall, have you seen that to be a common practice amongst pathological liars that there`s a tiny thread of truth they kind of stick with, I guess, to keep the story straight in their own mind?

MARSHALL: Yes, they -- they pick up on bits and pieces of the truth and they weave a big story out of it, but the other thing to understand, pathological liars lie not because they feel guilty or that they`re afraid of getting into trouble.

They lie to con and manipulate and because they know that they`re out of step with society. So in deleting the e-mails, in waking up boo hooing in the middle of the night to Lazzaro, it was not because she was frightened, it`s because she wanted to rob others of the opportunity to make independent decisions about all of her crazy, nefarious behavior.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers, Peter Odom, Mickey Sherman, out of Atlanta, New York, respectively.

Mickey, what effect will the release of these audiotapes have, if any?

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": Well, I don`t think it`s going to have the desired effect of saying to her, well, I better confess, and I don`t think it`s going to bring anybody else out of the woodwork, except for friends and neighbors who were just kind of getting on the show.

The problem is, again, that I have from the defense point of view or from the justice point of view, believe it or not, is that it just infects the entire prospective jury pool when and if she ever gets arrested.

I don`t think it moves the ball closer to finding out where this child is or if she`s alive or dead.

GRACE: Peter, agree?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Precisely. This is really just tainting the jury pool. It doesn`t have any investigative purpose and the jury is going to hear most of this anyway by the time it gets to trial.

GRACE: So bottom line, you guys say no effect.

Back to Brittany Schieber, neighbor of the Anthony family. Casey Anthony sent you a text back on July 16th. What did it say?

SCHIEBER: Yes. It`s -- just informed me that Caylee was missing for 32 days and if I had any information to either contact her cell or her home phone.

GRACE: Why would she think you had any information?

SCHIEBER: I couldn`t even tell you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight out to neighbor of the Anthony family, Brittany Schieber, with us tonight.

Brittany, on July 16th, Cindy Anthony came to tell you personally about little Caylee missing. What did she say?

SCHIEBER: She basically wanted to inform me that Caylee was missing and just what everybody had -- Casey informed me of she`s missing for 32 days. That she hasn`t seen Casey or talked to Casey for over a month and just found her.

GRACE: Did they really buy Casey Anthony`s story that she did her own search for the girl?

SCHIEBER: I guess so.

GRACE: Do you?

SCHIEBER: No, I don`t, honestly.

GRACE: You`re a single mom yourself. Your child was just about a month different in age as little Caylee. Did you find it unusual that mom Casey could go out and party every night?

SCHIEBER: I did, because I never even have the chance to because I`m always either with my son or working. So for somebody my age, we can`t party all the time. It was very awkward to me.

GRACE: Brittany, thank you for being with us.

Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Sergeant Merlin German, 22, Manhattan, New York. Known as the miracle man, endured over 100 surgeries and learned to walk again. Suffered severe burns over 97 percent of his body in a roadside bomb attack, Iraq.

Remembered for his laughs, spirit and encouraging others. Awarded the Purple Heart. Loved Yankees, playing the sax, hip-hop, children. Started a charity called Merlin`s Miracles to help burn victims. Leaves behind parents, Lourdes and Hemery.

Merlin German, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. Special good night from California, friend of the show, Josh, and New York friends, Patty and Ken. Now there`s a fine looking bunch.

And a special happy birthday to two of our stars, Dana and Ben.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern, and until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/25/ng.01.html

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NG 9/26 Part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHhx3HyLQHI

NG 9/26 Part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-CX69qIstQ

NG 9/26 Part 3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxKIIZuWxvM

NG 9/26 Part 4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLdVptmMWO8
 Untill I can get the transcript

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Aired September 26, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee. In the last hours, more shockers. Six hundred pages of bombshell documents, photos, video, cell phone records, text messages, and stunning police interview tapes have just been released. Tonight, we are showing you the last-known video of little Caylee before she vanishes. And a highly-disturbing image is discovered on Casey Anthony`s laptop.
Also, grandmother Cindy`s stunning police interview caught on videotape. You will see it here tonight, just a few of the many bombshells emerging tonight, giving us an in-depth look into Casey Anthony`s lifestyle and her mindset around the time little Caylee goes missing. It`s business as usual for mom, Casey, partying and showing very little emotion after her toddler disappears. All the while, she is complaining and griping that being a mom is so exhausting.

A big question: Why were there multiple searches for missing kids` Web sites on the Anthony family`s computer, using Casey`s log-in, months before little Caylee disappears? But tonight, the biggest question of all remains. Where, oh, where is little Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George drove her (INAUDIBLE) and may have hit something and killed it because the car was starting to stink.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: (INAUDIBLE) squirrel (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She started telling these stories from the 23rd (ph) on. Why? (INAUDIBLE) you don`t have to answer me. (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why -- why would she try and pass off the smell? Because we all know that there was a smell in the car. (INAUDIBLE) what the smell was, OK? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car. How could she start to day to her friends in text messages -- we have text messages. Why would she want to say, Hey, I think my dad (INAUDIBLE) you know, hit something with the car, and then later on, say, yes, it looks like my dad hit something with the car, and the car stinks.

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And...

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for 3-year-old Caylee. Bombshell documents, photos and police interview tapes just released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: She didn`t call me back all day, and I was a little bit worried, realized she wasn`t home (INAUDIBLE) I had a little sick feeling that something wasn`t right. So she finally called me back later, in the evening, probably after 5:30, because I was already leaving work, and she -- she was apologizing. She says, Mom, I know I should have called you...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This day.

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a little after 5:30?

CINDY ANTHONY: Some time after 5:30, I`m sure, because I -- it was on my way home from work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she say? What happened?

CINDY ANTHONY: She told me that they had gotten into -- that she -- her and Zanny -- I mean, Raquel (ph) and Zanny were about eight cars ahead of her and Juliette and the girls. Casey had her car. Zanny had their car. So Zanny and Raquel were ahead, and somehow there was an accident (INAUDIBLE) Casey and Juliet (ph) witnessed the accident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many shockers, so many twists. For the very latest, let`s go straight out to NANCY GRACE producer Natisha Lance, who is in Florida at the state attorney`s office. Natisha, what is the very latest?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, just as you said, Jane, hundreds of pages of new documents released today. One of the highlights, the biggest things were the computer forensics, which indicate, of course, no indication or reference to Zenaida Gonzalez either in photos, IM chats, nothing.

Also on there, as you stated before, there were searches on -- under Casey Anthony`s log-in name for missing children way back in March. Now, this is long before Caylee went missing.

Also, Cindy Anthony gives an interview to police which was on August 1. In this interview, she says that Caylee (SIC) would say that she was going to crash at Zanny`s house, also saying that she thought that Caylee was with friends of Casey`s, specifically Amy Huizenga or Jesse Grund. She also implicated Jesse Grund, saying that she thought that he might be the person responsible. But detectives backed her up and said, Well, we know for a fact Caylee is not with Jesse.

Also on that, there was noose. There was a picture with a baby looking up at a teddy bear with a noose. And this is an anti-death penalty drawing or poster. It originated in the UK. But it was an image that was saved onto that home computer. And it said, "Why do people kill people who kill people to show that killing people is bad?"

Also, Jane, in a conversation and IM chat with Anthony Ruciano (ph) -- and this is the police officer who was let go from his job because he lied about having a relationship with Casey Anthony. In this conversation, Casey refers to Caylee as a "little snot head." And that`s the latest.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Isn`t that lovely, for a mother to refer to her own daughter as a "little snot head." Sometimes just a couple of words tell the whole story.

Where to begin? So many bombshells. Let`s start with a former detective with the Santa Ana police. Donald Schweitzer, analyze this one for us. Months before little Caylee disappears, somebody is on the Anthony family computer, on Casey Anthony`s log-in, searching for missing children`s Web sites. Why on earth would they possibly want to do that?

DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: There`s only one explanation in this case, and that`s premeditation. This woman was thinking about what she`d be telling authorities in the end, when she did what she was planning on doing. That`s the only reasonable explanation for having that information on the computer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, we are telling you for -- the first time tonight, we are seeing this crucial interview between the grandmother of missing Caylee and police, an interview conducted on August 1. We have it on videotape. Let`s listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: It could have been one or two nights that they said they stayed at Zanny because it seemed like starting in May and June, it was more frequent that they crashed at Zanny, but not more than one or two days at a time until after June, you know, 16. Then it was a story every - - every day. But up until then, it was no more than one or two days ever strung together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) saying that the baby`s at Zanny`s (INAUDIBLE) but I`m going to Ricardo`s...

(CROSSTALK)

CINDY ANTHONY: No, what she would say is, I`m going to crash at -- I`m going to -- you know, Mom, I have to work late. I`m just going to leave Caylee at Zanny`s because I have to get up in the morning, and I`m going to stay at Zanny`s, and that way I can on to work. So she was going to crash at Zanny`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was going to crash at Zanny`s. We want to analyze that in just a moment. But first, it`s important to point out that Casey Anthony is not considered a suspect in her daughter`s disappearance. She is charged for child neglect, for which she has pleaded not guilty. She is considered a person of interest, and police say that is because she lied to investigators and because of other evidence, but she has not been charged in connection with her daughter`s disappearance. Important to point out.

Let`s go to Nikki Pierce, reporter with WDBO radio. All this talk about crashing at Zanny`s -- now, according to Cindy`s conversation with the cops, she`s saying that in the days leading up to little Caylee`s disappearance, Casey and Caylee stayed away from the home, the family home, the parental home, more and more often, and were crashing at Zanny`s. But of course, detectives believe Zanny, the so-called baby-sitter, does not exist. So where was she staying if she wasn`t crashing at Zanny`s?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s one of the big questions of this case, although rumor has it that she was staying with Ricardo Morales, which was her boyfriend at the time, and then later on, she started staying with Tony Lazzarro, who was her boyfriend after Ricardo. It`s a little muddled and a little unclear in that area, but police do believe that Zenaida does not exist.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And on top of all that, we have this hot sexual affair with a sheriff`s deputy. And let me go back to Natisha Lance on this one because I want you to clarify this comment about a "little snot head." Apparently, there were text messages going back and forth, and Casey and this deputy, who was later fired not because he did anything involved in this case but because he didn`t tell his bosses that he had had a relationship with Casey -- they`re texting back and forth because they want to get together and have a little action.

LANCE: That`s right. They hadn`t seen each other, it appears, for three weeks, so he`s trying to make plans to get together with Casey. And Casey is giving excuses, saying that she`s playing phone tag with not only her mom but also with Zenaida, saying that her mom has a neck injury because she was doing yard work. And then she says, as far as Zanny is concerned, that she`s struck in traffic and that she can`t get over there.

He has a timeframe that he`s trying to work out. And before all that happens, she said -- when he was trying to get together with her, she says, Oh, do you want me to bring the little snot head? And he says, Well, I`m saying come over when there`s an adult around. And then she goes into all these excuses after one another, and it doesn`t seem as if they got together that night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what`s fascinating is that she also says in one of those texts, I need to start looking out for numero uno more often -- in other words, looking out for herself.

I think it`s time to bring in the shrink, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. You`ve been listening to all of this, a mother describing her kid as a "little snot head," possibly the same mother who left little Caylee`s treasured baby doll in the carseat. Wherever Caylee ended up, she was not with her treasured little doll that, of course, with anybody who`s ever been a kid knows it`s hurtful to rip a little doll from its -- from the child`s hands. What do you make of all of these developments coming in tonight?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, it`s very disturbing that this is a woman who apparently lied all the time, and her mother knew it, her family knew it. It was a way of life. And nobody followed up on, Who is this actual baby-sitter? Can I meet her? Can I say where you`re staying? Can I see? It`s very, very disturbing. And I think that it`s pointing to some really, really major sociopathic patterns and tendencies here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Leonard Padilla, the phone lines are lighting up, but let me ask you first. In all of these hundreds and hundreds of text messages, in all of the e-mails, in all of the phone calls, in every single piece of evidence, there is one giant, glaring omission. Nothing about Zenaida Gonzalez, the so-called baby-sitter from -- emanating from Casey or to Casey.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, that`s absolutely correct. And the young lady that we had with Casey for nine days -- today myself, and my associate, Rob Dick, who she works for -- she was actually in my office, and we sat there. And me and Rob put the scenario forward about, OK, she runs out of gas on the night of the 26th. She`s by a dumpster. The next day, she`s talking about squirrels. She calls Tony, says, Come pick me up. The 28th, she calls Jesse, says, Come pick me up. On the 29th and the 30th, finally, the car gets towed off.

Now, look, I know that you`ve had conversations, and she`s told us how attached she became to Casey. Stop us if we`re wrong about any of this scenario, especially her putting the child in the dumpster. She started to cry, but never said no. And that was just today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I have, like, seven pages of stuff that I asked him. You know how Lee is doing it? I did the same thing to Jesse because he was my first. He was my first person I thought of that had a motive, that could intimidate Casey enough to keep her mouth shut and that would threaten us because he`s that type of person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I lived (ph) day by day with Jesse, and he`s (INAUDIBLE) discrepancies. In fact, I wrote down everything as he was talking to me, and he changed his story two and three times.

It was an 18-minute conversation on June 27 that he had with Casey that she invited him out to Fusian`s to cheer him up. He told me it was June 27. And I was writing it as he`s talking, and I said, You`re sure June 27? He goes, Absolutely. It was that Friday that we went out. And I says, Well, you talked to her for 18 minutes. Did you hear Caylee in the background? Did you talk about Caylee? He goes, yes, I asked her where she was, and she said she was with the baby-sitter at the beach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. More bombshell document just released in the case of missing toddler Caylee that paint an increasingly disturbing picture of her mother. One shocking new tidbit, documents show somebody using Cindy Anthony`s computer and Casey Anthony`s log-in began visiting missing children`s Web sites months -- months -- before little Caylee vanished. Why? That is the big question.

The phone lines have lit up. Let`s go to Cheryll in Arkansas. Your question, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. If you watch the body language of Casey Anthony, she`s enjoying the bodyguards and the security, and she always cuts her eyes to the cameras. And why don`t they pull the security and the bodyguards and let her sink herself?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, you raise a very important question. Let`s go back to psychotherapist Leslie Austin. There has been a lot of talk of a battle between Casey and her mom, Cindy, over the affections of little Caylee. In other words, it would seem, looking at this, that Casey, the tot mom, was jealous that the little baby, her little child, was getting so much attention from her own mother. And so now she`s the center of attention. Now everybody is looking at her. On some unconscious level, is that rewarding for her?

AUSTIN: Yes, I`m sure it is. When you have somebody who appears to be this narcissistic, veering into sociopathic tendencies, yes, they love the attention. They don`t care if it`s negative because in their world, they`re the center of the world and they love it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to go -- there are so many disturbing things that have popped up tonight that it`s almost hard to keep track of them. But let me go to Nikki Pierce on this one because this one is a stunner. On July 11, somebody, very possibly Casey, downloaded onto Casey`s laptop an icon from the deceased rapper Tupac Shakur. Excuse me on that one. Rappers aren`t my strong point -- deceased rapper Tupac Shakur.

And here is the quote. "You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation, trying to put the pieces together, justify what could have, would have happened. Or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the" -- expletive -- "on." Now, this is July 11, before her mom calls the cops, but after her daughter is missing!

PIERCE: That`s correct. There were a couple of things that showed up on the computer that was -- that were a little disturbing. Another one...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A little!

PIERCE: Yes, OK, a lot disturbing. Besides the Tupac lyrics, I believe she wrote a poem of her own that had the lies, Everyone lies, everyone dies, life will never be easy, or something along those lines. So I know investigators are taking a close look at some of those things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And these are new pictures, by the way, we are getting of this adorable, adorable, angelic -- they just came in today -- angelic pictures of this child. And you contrast these gorgeous photos and this beautiful,smiling face with some of the morbid, morbid focuses of her mother.

And let`s bring in Donald Schweitzer, former directive, on this one. OK, she downloaded something that was not her own drawing. It was downloaded apparently from an anti-death penalty Web site of some sort. But it is a picture of a little girl next to a teddy bear, who is hanging by a noose around its neck, along with the words, "Why do people kill people who kill people to show people that to kill people is bad?" This is on July 8, after Caylee went missing. Would you conclude she is worried about what happens to somebody in terms of punishment when you kill someone?

SCHWEITZER: Jane, I would conclude that, but then again, I`m using my common sense, something that we would ask the public and prospective jurors, if she`s ever brought to trial in this case.

My biggest thing here is, is what`s the dialogue between the police and the prosecutor at this point? This evidence seems to be so overwhelming at this point. What`s going on over there at the DA`s office?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think it`s a very good question. And George from Tennessee, what are your thoughts before we bring in the lawyers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I enjoy this program. And what I`d like to know is, the older gentleman there you see off and on that`s holding little Caylee -- I don`t know if it`s the great-grandfather or whatever it is. Has anyone ever questioned him? Does he know anything? Could he inject any information?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, Natisha Lance, correct me if I`m wrong because there are so many details to this case, but I believe that`s the great-grandfather of little Caylee. And she actually went to visit him on Father`s Day, June 15, which, of course, destroyed the whole timeline that Casey had offered, saying she had left this child with this mysterious Zanny baby-sitter on June 9.

LANCE: That`s is correct, Jane. And actually, they -- yes, that`s correct, Jane. And actually, they did interview the wife of the great- grandfather, who would be the great-grandmother, and she said that she was confused about the timeline at first, too. She thought it was the 8th, as Cindy Anthony had indicated earlier, but then she had some cards and things that Cindy had brought over, and she realized it was the 15th. She said that Cindy and Caylee came over after that visit. They had chili and they had a great time. So she was confused about the timeline, as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: He was in my home every day, and I got to know him and I got to see his anger and rage because he took it out on me one day, a couple times while they were engaged. And from the day Caylee was born, he was in her life and he had stayed in her life off and on. And Casey doesn`t -- you know, she was very, like, Stay away from him, Mom, that kind of thing. And even if you guys watch (INAUDIBLE) interview, I asked her specifically about people and she- every -- the only person she said, Don`t talk to, she said, Stay away from Jesse. And she looked frightened when she said that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Cindy Anthony on videotape, talking to police investigators. We are seeing and hearing this interview for the very first time tonight. And what emerges is shocking.

And speaking of shocking, just saw them during the break, we`re going to bring them to you momentarily, photos of Casey Anthony at an "anything but clothes party" wearing only an American flag, coming up in just a moment.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, as Nancy Grace would say. And we`ve got two great ones here tonight, Tamara Holder, defense attorney, and John Burris, also defense attorney. You hear it there. Let`s start with John. Everybody`s saying the mounting evidence, look at it, somebody searching on a Web site, missing kids, months before this child disappears. When is enough for prosecutors, John?

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, apparently, it`s not enough as of yet because the various pieces that you talked about do not necessarily point to her as a person that perpetrated the crime. You have a lot of this connect the pieces, but you don`t have -- one, you don`t have a body. That`s number one. You don`t have any admissions. You don`t have any way to tie her to the particular crime.

You have some circumstantial evidence, there`s no doubt about it, but it doesn`t all point to guilt. So I think the government or the DA is very reticent about going forward yet. Right now, she`s just being tried in the court of public opinion, may ultimately result in a change in a venue, but right now, they government doesn`t feel that strongly about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look, Tamara Holder, after her child goes missing, she gets a tattoo that says, "The beautiful life," translated into "The beautiful" -- who gets a tattoo that says "The beautiful life" after your child -- your beautiful daughter goes missing?

TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, all I can say is that speculation alone is not enough. I mean, all we have here is uncovering a liar, a compulsive liar. We don`t have a body. We don`t have a confession. We don`t have blood. We don`t have any witnesses. We don`t have this body that was supposed to be in a dumpster. What do we have besides a compulsive liar? That`s not enough.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George had driven the car and he had hit something and hit it, because the car was starting to stink.

CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CAYCEE ANTHONY: She started telling me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She started telling you stories from the 25th on.

Why -- I just want to plant the seed, OK? You don`t have to answer this. Why would she try and do that? Why would she try and pass off the smell. Because we all know that there was a smell. I`m not here to dispute what the smell was, OK? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car. Why would she start to say to her friends in text message - we have text messages --why would she want to say, hey, I think my dad hit something with the car, and later on say, yeah, it looks like my dad hit something with the car and the car smells?

C. ANTHONY: I have no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JANE VALEZ MITCHELL, CNN HEADLINE ANCHOR: Jane Valez Mitchell in for Nancy Grace. There you are watching and hearing Cindy Anthony`s interview with authorities. And, of course, she has tried to explain the stench, the horrific stench coming out of the car that Casey Anthony used. She said it was pizza that was rotting. Casey Anthony, herself, blamed it on squirrels. But, of course, cadaver dogs hit on the trunk, and the body pharm took air samples, tested them from that trunk, and concluded that it was human decomposition.

Let`s bring our very patient forensic scientist, Tom McClintock, and ask you about this dumpster.

Now, there has been some speculation, no idea really where it came from, about a dumpster. But if, in fact, the body has been dumped in a dumpster, wouldn`t it have the same stench that this trunk would have?

TOM MCCLINTOCK, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: It could. And the thing is, is that we know that the air samples from the trunk were analyzed by the body pharm at the University of Tennessee. And there is a chemical profile that`s associated with human decomposition, and not of another animal, or squirrels.

Regarding the dumpster, it could have a different sort of stench, as you call it. But it still would have some sort of chemical profile that`s associated with a decomposing human body.

MITCHELL: And, you know, this whole case is a study in contrast, as we talk about these very morbid subjects. New pictures just coming in, as we speak, of Casey Anthony, at an "Anything-But-Clothes Party". This apparently as on May 25th, and there you see her wearing only an American flag. This, again, an anything but clothes party. And this is before her daughter disappears.

But, again, this desire and need to party hearty is an absolute unending theme in this 22-year-old woman`s very, very troubled life. Let`s go quickly to Nikki Pierce, reporter at WDBO.

What do you know about this dumpster? Has the dumpster been tested? Have they gone to the landfill of where this dumpster dumps out to, to see any truth of the speculation? And where does the speculation come from?

NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: I have to say, the first I heard of a recycling bin near the dumpster was last night from Leonard Padilla, hereon the program. So I`m not entirely sure about that.

But I do know that the dumpster, beside the AMSCOT (ph) where the car was parked and towed from has been checked by authorities. Furthermore, there is a GPS that is attached to the dump truck that took the trash and took it to a landfill, and there is a specific grid, specific area in the landfill, where it usually dumps. That area has been checked by employees, and so far they haven`t found anything.

MITCHELL: Those on the phone, be patient, we`ll get to you in one second. But first I have to bring in another very patient man, Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. You just heard talk of GPS. We are hearing in the hundreds and hundreds of hundreds of pages of documents that are coming in, there are now GPS latitude and longitudes that are being connected with certain text messages, because Casey Anthony sent hundreds and hundreds of text messages. So shouldn`t they know by now where she was during those crucial days after her daughter disappeared and had some kind of a grid of her movement?

BEN LEVITAN, TELECOM EXPERT: That`s absolutely right, Jane. We know exactly where she was. I`ve worked on a lot of expert witness cases, locating people, and proving they were either at a location or not. And I have never seen a mountain of evidence like this. This is absolutely incredible. They did all -- the detectives in this case did all of the right things. They got all of the evidence that we needed to be able to actually track where Casey was every minute.

And I think that`s why they dumped this out on us. But they didn`t give us the very significant dates. So they have this level of detail on the dates that we need, the 9th, the 10th, the 15th, the 16th, there`s really, you know -- we take the lying out of this picture completely, because we`re back to forensic evidence. We know exactly where she is.

MITCHELL: Well, if they know where she is, and they`ve got these hundreds of pinpoints of where she did all of these texts and received these texts, why is this case sort of languishing?

LEVITAN: Well, that`s for the lawyers to answer. And I`ve gone into court so many times with evidence that`s slam-dunk, and not won the case. And, you know, our jobs as forensic expert is to tell the truth, and explain it to a jury in a simple manner, like we do here on your show.

MITCHELL: I think the 30-second answer or the 10-second answer is they may have a lot of dots on maps, but they do not have a body! And that is the big problem with this case right now.

Carol, Alabama, your question, ma`am.

CALLER: My question concerns Cindy Anthony, the grandmother. Is it possible, her being an RN, that she may have already had chloroform, and since she did wash some things, like pants from inside the car when they received it from the towing company, could -- and chloroform is also used as a solvent. Is it possible that she, herself, may have used the chloroform in the trunk of the car to try to remove that odor? And if so, would she not have removed some forensic evidence when she did that?

MITCHELL: Well, first of all, very interesting question. We have to say, Cindy Anthony deserves our respect and compassion. She is a woman who has lost her granddaughter, and she is in no way, shape or form considered a suspect. This is not an interrogation that we have been listening to. This is an interview, OK?

So the point about the chloroform is interesting, Natisha Lance, because there were web searches for chloroform, and chloroform in the trunk. Explain the chloroform issue.

NATISHA LANCE, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE: Well, there were searches for chloroform on the computer. However, the chloroform that was found in the trunk, experts have said that it was in such a pure form that it couldn`t have come from any type of cleaning solvent or anything like that. It had to have come from a pure form of chloroform itself.

MITCHELL: All right. Leonard Padilla, I have to ask you this, because I was struck by what you said perhaps last night -- one of the nights recently - that there is always a grain of truth in what Casey Anthony says. And she is constantly talking about going off to a job, going off to a job, which apparently she doesn`t have. So could there be a grain of truth that, in fact, maybe she was going off to maybe a job that was nefarious or shameful. And this is completely speculative and completely hypothetical, because you`re saying there was a grain of truth. Where was she going when she said she was going off to these jobs for hours and days at a stretch? What was she doing?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: She -- she normally, and if you look at the GPS tracking and the longitudes and latitudes, there were times when she was just here and there.

But let me bring up something that you threw in there. When I first went back to Orlando, Jose Baez (ph), the attorney, showed me a card from Jesse, a very loving card sent to Caylee and Casey on Caylee`s first birthday. He wanted me to interpret that as a possibility that this gentleman, Jesse, loved that child so much that he would steal her. There was also a situation where a lot of people don`t understand this. Jesse was given a lie detector test by the FBI for six hours, and passed every bit of it. You can check with his father on that, or Jesse. The thing about it is that, you know, Casey has people throwing everybody under the bus in Orlando in order to save her own skin. There was also, after her own father attacked her in the home, trying to find out where the granddaughter was the very first day she was home, there was a letter, a card, sent to her that the attorney had, saying daughter, I love you very much, I will stand behind you.

MITCHELL: Hey, I`m going to jump in. The reason I asked you was if in fact there were searches for chloroform in a very pure form was found in the trunk but no evidence that she actually bought it, could somebody else have bought it? Could she have some accomplice somewhere that she has been hanging out with when she says she`s going to Universal?

PADILLA: Something that I found out abut chloroform is that somehow the youngsters, and I call them youngsters, they`re in the 20 to 25 age range, somehow they were using chloroform in their sex acts. I don`t know exactly if they sniff it or what they do.

MITCHELL: What?!

PADILLA: Yes, you look on Ricardo Morales web site, on his -

MITCHELL: Well, listen, I don`t want to get into saying anything untoward about any individuals.

PADILLA: No, I`m all saying is that it is not that hard to come up with. I mean, they just seem to have access to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She would call you and say that the baby is Zani`s staying the night, but I`m going to Ricardo`s.

C. ANTHONY: No, what she would say is I`m gonna crash at - I`m gonna crash - you know, Mom, I have to work late. I`m just gonna leave Caylee at Zani`s because I have to get up in the morning and I`m gonna stay at Zani`s and that way I can go on to work. So she was gonna crash at Zani`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VIRGINIA CHA, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: I`m Virginia Cha with your HEADLINE PRIME NEWSBREAK.

Tough questions for the presidential candidates in tonight`s debate. They were asked about their views on whether the surge was working in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN MCCAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Next president of the United States will have to decide how we leave, when we leave, and what we leave behind. That`s the decision of the next president of the United States. Senator Obama said, the surge could not work, said it would increase sectarian violence, said it was doomed to failure. Recently on a television program, he said it exceeded our wildest expectations. But yet after conceding that, he still says that he would oppose the surge if he had to decide that again today.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: John, you like to pretend like the war started in 2007. You talk about the surge, the war started in 2003. And at the time, when the war started, you said it would be quick and easy. You said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. You were wrong. You said we would be greeted as liberators. You were wrong. You said that there was no history of violence between Shia and Sunni. You were wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHA: Massachusetts Senator Ted Kennedy was taken to the hospital today after having a seizure. Doctors believe it was triggered by a change in medication. He is being treated for brain cancer. He did return home in time to watch the presidential debate.

Keep it here. We`ll be back. I`m Virginia Cha.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: During the whole time when I was sitting there talking to Jesse that Saturday after all of this happened - when he was in my home, he was sure of all of his - you know, he was sure about. Now, you haven`t talk to Caylee or Casey during this whole time frame. Absolutely not. Are you absolutely sure? Absolutely not. So that was a big red flag when he changed his story going into the media. That he had heard Caylee.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the 24th?

C. ANTHONY: Yeah, or even that he had heard Caylee`s voice because he maintained the whole time that the babysitter had her from what Casey said and that was not - and he believed all that so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: Jane Valez Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.

And you continue to see and hear an interview we just got in. An interview between authorities and the missing child`s grandmother, Cindy Anthony.

I have to ask, Nikki Pierce, reporter WDBO Radio, along with everything else that has come in, and these hundreds of pages in these new documents just released. More lies. And the way I see it, there are always three themes to Casey`s lies. One, that she has a job, which she doesn`t, apparently, anyway. We don`t know the job that she may have had, if she is referring to a job. It`s not at Universal. The second is, she`s going to get a house and live somewhere else with somebody, a better house. And the other one is, Zani, Zani, Zani, in fact she says in one text, just talk to Zani, even though police never found any record of any connection with any woman named Zenaida Gonzalez.

PIERCE: All of the above are correct. As a matter of fact, there is only one mention that we know of and that is to one of her lovers, Anthony Rushack (ph), something about Zani, I`m playing phone tag with Zani. I`m playing phone tag with my mom, in reference to getting somebody to watch Caylee. But when the police went over her computer, they found absolutely no contact with any kind of Zenaida, whatsoever.

And as far as the jobs go, as far as we know she did not have a job. But she kept saying she was a Universal event planner.

MITCHELL: I want to bring in the lawyers. Tamara Holder, defense attorney and John Burris, defense attorney.

Tamara, let`s start with you. When Cindy Anthony is talking to authorities and they`re trying to piece together a time line, it is so confusing, it is such a mess, they`ve got calendars, they can`t figure it out, because there are so many lies that are sort of riddled. The whole thing is riddled with lies. So if this case goes to trial, how tough is it going to be for both sides to make any sense with it, since we`re having a hard time?

TAMARA HOLDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think the lies are actually losing their value. Because this woman, Casey, has been lying before -- before this alleged crime occurred. She has been lying to her mom, she has been lying to her friends. She has probably been lying her whole life. So the fact that she is lying to the police is nothing new for this woman.

That`s why we need something more. That`s why we need something more for an indictment. We`ve got to find some kind of direct evidence. We`ve got to --

MITCHELL: How about a human -- decomposing human? That`s what the body pharm said, human decomposition, found in the trunk of the car, along with hair that appears to be Caylee`s.

HOLDER: It`s not enough. I mean, we would have an indictment right now, if they thought that that was enough. One -- one piece of evidence in the trunk of a car is not enough. Remember, Scott Peterson had cement in a boat and that wasn`t enough. So, we have got to have something more.

MITCHELL: John Burris, jump in.

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think you`ve got to have more than what you have. Now, I will say that certainly the circumstantial evidence that you have decomposing body that it is tied to the child. What we don`t have it being tied to the child, we have some hair, but hair could have been on any other particular item at any point in time. So I think if you put those two together, you don`t get enough to say that the decomposing body is that of the child.

MITCHELL: John, we have been receiving hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of pages of documents, day after day after day.

BURRIS: But there is nothing in those documents.

MITCHELL: How much more are authorities expected to do?

BURRIS: There is nothing in those documents that represents admissions of her, nor do they identify her as being the killer of this child. There`s a lot of-this is a person who can`t tell the truth about anything. She is a sociopathic person. But that in and of itself is not proof. That is character --

MITCHELL: And we are going to give you, sir, the very last word. You`ve made some good points to the defense attorney tonight. We are going to turn right now to "CNN Heroes".

(BEGIN VIDETAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN HEROES.

NUJOOD ALI, AGE 10 (through translator): When I got married, I was scared. I didn`t want to leave my house. I didn`t want to leave my family and siblings.

He was asking me to sleep with him, but I refused. He beat me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Was she forced to have sexual relations with him?

ALI: Yes.

SHADA NASSER, PROTECTING THE POWERLESS: We have a big problem here in Yemen, about the age for marriages. I hope they change this law.

ALI (through translator): I didn`t want to get married, and I wanted to get divorced.

NASSER: I went to the court, to look after my cases. They said some girl she come here to ask about divorce. When I spoke with her, I feel like she is my daughter. I put her in my arm, OK? I hug her. I said, don`t be afraid. I will help you and you will take the divorce.

ALI (through translator): I was afraid, but then the lawyer helped me.

ANNOUNCER: Get involved, CNN.com/heroes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MITCHELL: And now a look back at the rest of the Caylee developments this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know where Caylee is, yet her mom escalates when my mom gets in the room, almost combatively. My sister, when she explained that to my mom, I don`t know where Caylee is. And then my mother immediately goes, who took her? Who took her? Then Casey goes, the nanny did. She was kidnapped, Mom.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: We are now hearing in their own words what happened when the Anthony family finds out little Caylee is missing. Tonight, bombshell audio tapes released.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice over): Tonight, Casey`s ex-fiance`s family is speaking out, breaking their silence with Nancy Grace. This as exclusive new photos released showing the tot mom like you`ve never seen her before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is not the truth. You need to tell -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it`s not the truth. We can`t get past that unless you go ahead and tell us the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is nothing to get past, because that is the truth.

MITCHELL: I want to go back to the Richard Grund, father of Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance, Jesse Grund.

Mr. Grund, do you believe there is any chance Caylee is still alive?

RICHARD GRUND, FATHER OF JESSE GRUND: According to my beliefs, I walk by faith and not by sight. So until I know for sure, absolutely beyond a doubt that Caylee is gone, then I will hold out the hope that she`s going to come home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: Tonight let`s stop to remember, Army Sergeant Joseph Richard III, 27, from Lafayette, Louisiana, killed in Iraq. On his third tour of duty, awarded the Combat Action Badge, and National Defense Service Medal. He attended the University of Louisiana. He leaves behind parents Joseph, Jr., and Elaine. His sister, Carmen, and his widow Monique. Joseph Richard, an American hero.

Thanks to all of our guests for their insights. Thanks to you at home for tracking this very important case with us. See you tomorrow night, right here, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. Meantime, have a happy and a safe evening.

END

Aired September 26, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for a 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee. In the last hours, more shockers. Six hundred pages of bombshell documents, photos, video, cell phone records, text messages, and stunning police interview tapes have just been released. Tonight, we are showing you the last-known video of little Caylee before she vanishes. And a highly-disturbing image is discovered on Casey Anthony`s laptop.
Also, grandmother Cindy`s stunning police interview caught on videotape. You will see it here tonight, just a few of the many bombshells emerging tonight, giving us an in-depth look into Casey Anthony`s lifestyle and her mindset around the time little Caylee goes missing. It`s business as usual for mom, Casey, partying and showing very little emotion after her toddler disappears. All the while, she is complaining and griping that being a mom is so exhausting.

A big question: Why were there multiple searches for missing kids` Web sites on the Anthony family`s computer, using Casey`s log-in, months before little Caylee disappears? But tonight, the biggest question of all remains. Where, oh, where is little Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George drove her (INAUDIBLE) and may have hit something and killed it because the car was starting to stink.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: (INAUDIBLE) squirrel (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She started telling these stories from the 23rd (ph) on. Why? (INAUDIBLE) you don`t have to answer me. (INAUDIBLE)

CINDY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why -- why would she try and pass off the smell? Because we all know that there was a smell in the car. (INAUDIBLE) what the smell was, OK? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car. How could she start to day to her friends in text messages -- we have text messages. Why would she want to say, Hey, I think my dad (INAUDIBLE) you know, hit something with the car, and then later on, say, yes, it looks like my dad hit something with the car, and the car stinks.

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And...

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Breaking news tonight in the desperate search for 3-year-old Caylee. Bombshell documents, photos and police interview tapes just released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: She didn`t call me back all day, and I was a little bit worried, realized she wasn`t home (INAUDIBLE) I had a little sick feeling that something wasn`t right. So she finally called me back later, in the evening, probably after 5:30, because I was already leaving work, and she -- she was apologizing. She says, Mom, I know I should have called you...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This day.

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes, that day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a little after 5:30?

CINDY ANTHONY: Some time after 5:30, I`m sure, because I -- it was on my way home from work.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What did she say? What happened?

CINDY ANTHONY: She told me that they had gotten into -- that she -- her and Zanny -- I mean, Raquel (ph) and Zanny were about eight cars ahead of her and Juliette and the girls. Casey had her car. Zanny had their car. So Zanny and Raquel were ahead, and somehow there was an accident (INAUDIBLE) Casey and Juliet (ph) witnessed the accident.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many shockers, so many twists. For the very latest, let`s go straight out to NANCY GRACE producer Natisha Lance, who is in Florida at the state attorney`s office. Natisha, what is the very latest?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, just as you said, Jane, hundreds of pages of new documents released today. One of the highlights, the biggest things were the computer forensics, which indicate, of course, no indication or reference to Zenaida Gonzalez either in photos, IM chats, nothing.

Also on there, as you stated before, there were searches on -- under Casey Anthony`s log-in name for missing children way back in March. Now, this is long before Caylee went missing.

Also, Cindy Anthony gives an interview to police which was on August 1. In this interview, she says that Caylee (SIC) would say that she was going to crash at Zanny`s house, also saying that she thought that Caylee was with friends of Casey`s, specifically Amy Huizenga or Jesse Grund. She also implicated Jesse Grund, saying that she thought that he might be the person responsible. But detectives backed her up and said, Well, we know for a fact Caylee is not with Jesse.

Also on that, there was noose. There was a picture with a baby looking up at a teddy bear with a noose. And this is an anti-death penalty drawing or poster. It originated in the UK. But it was an image that was saved onto that home computer. And it said, "Why do people kill people who kill people to show that killing people is bad?"

Also, Jane, in a conversation and IM chat with Anthony Ruciano (ph) -- and this is the police officer who was let go from his job because he lied about having a relationship with Casey Anthony. In this conversation, Casey refers to Caylee as a "little snot head." And that`s the latest.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Isn`t that lovely, for a mother to refer to her own daughter as a "little snot head." Sometimes just a couple of words tell the whole story.

Where to begin? So many bombshells. Let`s start with a former detective with the Santa Ana police. Donald Schweitzer, analyze this one for us. Months before little Caylee disappears, somebody is on the Anthony family computer, on Casey Anthony`s log-in, searching for missing children`s Web sites. Why on earth would they possibly want to do that?

DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: There`s only one explanation in this case, and that`s premeditation. This woman was thinking about what she`d be telling authorities in the end, when she did what she was planning on doing. That`s the only reasonable explanation for having that information on the computer.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, we are telling you for -- the first time tonight, we are seeing this crucial interview between the grandmother of missing Caylee and police, an interview conducted on August 1. We have it on videotape. Let`s listen in.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: It could have been one or two nights that they said they stayed at Zanny because it seemed like starting in May and June, it was more frequent that they crashed at Zanny, but not more than one or two days at a time until after June, you know, 16. Then it was a story every - - every day. But up until then, it was no more than one or two days ever strung together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) saying that the baby`s at Zanny`s (INAUDIBLE) but I`m going to Ricardo`s...

(CROSSTALK)

CINDY ANTHONY: No, what she would say is, I`m going to crash at -- I`m going to -- you know, Mom, I have to work late. I`m just going to leave Caylee at Zanny`s because I have to get up in the morning, and I`m going to stay at Zanny`s, and that way I can on to work. So she was going to crash at Zanny`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was going to crash at Zanny`s. We want to analyze that in just a moment. But first, it`s important to point out that Casey Anthony is not considered a suspect in her daughter`s disappearance. She is charged for child neglect, for which she has pleaded not guilty. She is considered a person of interest, and police say that is because she lied to investigators and because of other evidence, but she has not been charged in connection with her daughter`s disappearance. Important to point out.

Let`s go to Nikki Pierce, reporter with WDBO radio. All this talk about crashing at Zanny`s -- now, according to Cindy`s conversation with the cops, she`s saying that in the days leading up to little Caylee`s disappearance, Casey and Caylee stayed away from the home, the family home, the parental home, more and more often, and were crashing at Zanny`s. But of course, detectives believe Zanny, the so-called baby-sitter, does not exist. So where was she staying if she wasn`t crashing at Zanny`s?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s one of the big questions of this case, although rumor has it that she was staying with Ricardo Morales, which was her boyfriend at the time, and then later on, she started staying with Tony Lazzarro, who was her boyfriend after Ricardo. It`s a little muddled and a little unclear in that area, but police do believe that Zenaida does not exist.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And on top of all that, we have this hot sexual affair with a sheriff`s deputy. And let me go back to Natisha Lance on this one because I want you to clarify this comment about a "little snot head." Apparently, there were text messages going back and forth, and Casey and this deputy, who was later fired not because he did anything involved in this case but because he didn`t tell his bosses that he had had a relationship with Casey -- they`re texting back and forth because they want to get together and have a little action.

LANCE: That`s right. They hadn`t seen each other, it appears, for three weeks, so he`s trying to make plans to get together with Casey. And Casey is giving excuses, saying that she`s playing phone tag with not only her mom but also with Zenaida, saying that her mom has a neck injury because she was doing yard work. And then she says, as far as Zanny is concerned, that she`s struck in traffic and that she can`t get over there.

He has a timeframe that he`s trying to work out. And before all that happens, she said -- when he was trying to get together with her, she says, Oh, do you want me to bring the little snot head? And he says, Well, I`m saying come over when there`s an adult around. And then she goes into all these excuses after one another, and it doesn`t seem as if they got together that night.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And what`s fascinating is that she also says in one of those texts, I need to start looking out for numero uno more often -- in other words, looking out for herself.

I think it`s time to bring in the shrink, Dr. Leslie Austin, psychotherapist. You`ve been listening to all of this, a mother describing her kid as a "little snot head," possibly the same mother who left little Caylee`s treasured baby doll in the carseat. Wherever Caylee ended up, she was not with her treasured little doll that, of course, with anybody who`s ever been a kid knows it`s hurtful to rip a little doll from its -- from the child`s hands. What do you make of all of these developments coming in tonight?

LESLIE AUSTIN, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, you know, it`s very disturbing that this is a woman who apparently lied all the time, and her mother knew it, her family knew it. It was a way of life. And nobody followed up on, Who is this actual baby-sitter? Can I meet her? Can I say where you`re staying? Can I see? It`s very, very disturbing. And I think that it`s pointing to some really, really major sociopathic patterns and tendencies here.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Leonard Padilla, the phone lines are lighting up, but let me ask you first. In all of these hundreds and hundreds of text messages, in all of the e-mails, in all of the phone calls, in every single piece of evidence, there is one giant, glaring omission. Nothing about Zenaida Gonzalez, the so-called baby-sitter from -- emanating from Casey or to Casey.

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, that`s absolutely correct. And the young lady that we had with Casey for nine days -- today myself, and my associate, Rob Dick, who she works for -- she was actually in my office, and we sat there. And me and Rob put the scenario forward about, OK, she runs out of gas on the night of the 26th. She`s by a dumpster. The next day, she`s talking about squirrels. She calls Tony, says, Come pick me up. The 28th, she calls Jesse, says, Come pick me up. On the 29th and the 30th, finally, the car gets towed off.

Now, look, I know that you`ve had conversations, and she`s told us how attached she became to Casey. Stop us if we`re wrong about any of this scenario, especially her putting the child in the dumpster. She started to cry, but never said no. And that was just today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I have, like, seven pages of stuff that I asked him. You know how Lee is doing it? I did the same thing to Jesse because he was my first. He was my first person I thought of that had a motive, that could intimidate Casey enough to keep her mouth shut and that would threaten us because he`s that type of person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I lived (ph) day by day with Jesse, and he`s (INAUDIBLE) discrepancies. In fact, I wrote down everything as he was talking to me, and he changed his story two and three times.

It was an 18-minute conversation on June 27 that he had with Casey that she invited him out to Fusian`s to cheer him up. He told me it was June 27. And I was writing it as he`s talking, and I said, You`re sure June 27? He goes, Absolutely. It was that Friday that we went out. And I says, Well, you talked to her for 18 minutes. Did you hear Caylee in the background? Did you talk about Caylee? He goes, yes, I asked her where she was, and she said she was with the baby-sitter at the beach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. More bombshell document just released in the case of missing toddler Caylee that paint an increasingly disturbing picture of her mother. One shocking new tidbit, documents show somebody using Cindy Anthony`s computer and Casey Anthony`s log-in began visiting missing children`s Web sites months -- months -- before little Caylee vanished. Why? That is the big question.

The phone lines have lit up. Let`s go to Cheryll in Arkansas. Your question, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. If you watch the body language of Casey Anthony, she`s enjoying the bodyguards and the security, and she always cuts her eyes to the cameras. And why don`t they pull the security and the bodyguards and let her sink herself?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, you raise a very important question. Let`s go back to psychotherapist Leslie Austin. There has been a lot of talk of a battle between Casey and her mom, Cindy, over the affections of little Caylee. In other words, it would seem, looking at this, that Casey, the tot mom, was jealous that the little baby, her little child, was getting so much attention from her own mother. And so now she`s the center of attention. Now everybody is looking at her. On some unconscious level, is that rewarding for her?

AUSTIN: Yes, I`m sure it is. When you have somebody who appears to be this narcissistic, veering into sociopathic tendencies, yes, they love the attention. They don`t care if it`s negative because in their world, they`re the center of the world and they love it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to go -- there are so many disturbing things that have popped up tonight that it`s almost hard to keep track of them. But let me go to Nikki Pierce on this one because this one is a stunner. On July 11, somebody, very possibly Casey, downloaded onto Casey`s laptop an icon from the deceased rapper Tupac Shakur. Excuse me on that one. Rappers aren`t my strong point -- deceased rapper Tupac Shakur.

And here is the quote. "You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks or even months overanalyzing a situation, trying to put the pieces together, justify what could have, would have happened. Or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the" -- expletive -- "on." Now, this is July 11, before her mom calls the cops, but after her daughter is missing!

PIERCE: That`s correct. There were a couple of things that showed up on the computer that was -- that were a little disturbing. Another one...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: A little!

PIERCE: Yes, OK, a lot disturbing. Besides the Tupac lyrics, I believe she wrote a poem of her own that had the lies, Everyone lies, everyone dies, life will never be easy, or something along those lines. So I know investigators are taking a close look at some of those things.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And these are new pictures, by the way, we are getting of this adorable, adorable, angelic -- they just came in today -- angelic pictures of this child. And you contrast these gorgeous photos and this beautiful,smiling face with some of the morbid, morbid focuses of her mother.

And let`s bring in Donald Schweitzer, former directive, on this one. OK, she downloaded something that was not her own drawing. It was downloaded apparently from an anti-death penalty Web site of some sort. But it is a picture of a little girl next to a teddy bear, who is hanging by a noose around its neck, along with the words, "Why do people kill people who kill people to show people that to kill people is bad?" This is on July 8, after Caylee went missing. Would you conclude she is worried about what happens to somebody in terms of punishment when you kill someone?

SCHWEITZER: Jane, I would conclude that, but then again, I`m using my common sense, something that we would ask the public and prospective jurors, if she`s ever brought to trial in this case.

My biggest thing here is, is what`s the dialogue between the police and the prosecutor at this point? This evidence seems to be so overwhelming at this point. What`s going on over there at the DA`s office?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, I think it`s a very good question. And George from Tennessee, what are your thoughts before we bring in the lawyers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. I enjoy this program. And what I`d like to know is, the older gentleman there you see off and on that`s holding little Caylee -- I don`t know if it`s the great-grandfather or whatever it is. Has anyone ever questioned him? Does he know anything? Could he inject any information?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now, Natisha Lance, correct me if I`m wrong because there are so many details to this case, but I believe that`s the great-grandfather of little Caylee. And she actually went to visit him on Father`s Day, June 15, which, of course, destroyed the whole timeline that Casey had offered, saying she had left this child with this mysterious Zanny baby-sitter on June 9.

LANCE: That`s is correct, Jane. And actually, they -- yes, that`s correct, Jane. And actually, they did interview the wife of the great- grandfather, who would be the great-grandmother, and she said that she was confused about the timeline at first, too. She thought it was the 8th, as Cindy Anthony had indicated earlier, but then she had some cards and things that Cindy had brought over, and she realized it was the 15th. She said that Cindy and Caylee came over after that visit. They had chili and they had a great time. So she was confused about the timeline, as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: He was in my home every day, and I got to know him and I got to see his anger and rage because he took it out on me one day, a couple times while they were engaged. And from the day Caylee was born, he was in her life and he had stayed in her life off and on. And Casey doesn`t -- you know, she was very, like, Stay away from him, Mom, that kind of thing. And even if you guys watch (INAUDIBLE) interview, I asked her specifically about people and she- every -- the only person she said, Don`t talk to, she said, Stay away from Jesse. And she looked frightened when she said that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Cindy Anthony on videotape, talking to police investigators. We are seeing and hearing this interview for the very first time tonight. And what emerges is shocking.

And speaking of shocking, just saw them during the break, we`re going to bring them to you momentarily, photos of Casey Anthony at an "anything but clothes party" wearing only an American flag, coming up in just a moment.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, as Nancy Grace would say. And we`ve got two great ones here tonight, Tamara Holder, defense attorney, and John Burris, also defense attorney. You hear it there. Let`s start with John. Everybody`s saying the mounting evidence, look at it, somebody searching on a Web site, missing kids, months before this child disappears. When is enough for prosecutors, John?

JOHN BURRIS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, apparently, it`s not enough as of yet because the various pieces that you talked about do not necessarily point to her as a p

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Missing Toddler`s Grandmother Fingers Mother`s Ex-Fiance

Aired September 29, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 15 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Bombshells revealed inside the police investigation from photos, video, cell phone records to stunning police interrogation tapes. We find mom, Casey, on line as early as March, surfing Web sites devoted to missing children. Was she already concocting a story way before that?

And in a stunning interview, grandmother, Cindy, reveals who she believes is the real Zenaida Gonzalez. The investigation reveals mom, Casey, and her father, George Anthony, nearly coming to blows when he tries to open that car trunk, the same trunk that later smells of human decomposition. Mom, Casey Anthony, caught on line repeatedly Googling the name "Zenaida Gonzalez." Was she actually creating the nanny`s identity?

We hear the interrogation where police confront grandmother, Cindy, about changing her story, then grandmother, Cindy, actually points the finger at Jesse Grund, her daughter`s ex-fiance. We have those interrogation tapes.

And in a shocking turn, we hear mom, Casey Anthony, calling her little girl ugly names in text messages with her lover. Police discover highly disturbing images on mom, Casey Anthony`s, computer of a little girl in a noose. More of mom, Casey`s, lies, her lifestyle and growing frustrations at just being a mom, all the while showing no emotion over her missing girl. Mom, Casey, still to this hour refusing to fully cooperate in the search for Caylee. As protests rage on, tonight, where is 3-year-old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t say -- listen, I can`t stand up in front of a newscast with you and say everything that you`ve told us so far is the same thing that we have been saying all along because -- I can`t say that. You changed it, and that`s changing the focus from Caylee. Our ultimate goal is to find Caylee. We`re going to do everything we can and we`ve been doing everything we can to find Caylee. I need you on our side.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: I want to be on your side. I told you that from day one. Why do you think George and I let you have free rein? When we tried to give you stuff, no one wanted to take it.

I think that Zanny, at this point, was her own person in the beginning, but I think Zanny is now whoever is watching Caylee. In my mind...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Transferred the responsibility?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. So I think she refers to -- I believe...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think we`re spinning our wheels, looking for a Zanny?

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not sure. But my -- I have two theories, and I`ll share that with you. I think Zanny could either be Amy or Jesse at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hundreds of pages of new documents released. One of the highlights, the biggest things, were the computer forensics, which indicate -- of course, no indication or reference to Zenaida Gonzalez, either in photos, IM chats, nothing. There was a picture with a baby looking up at a teddy bear with a noose. And this is an anti-death penalty drawing or poster. It originated in the UK, but it was an image saved onto that home computer. And it said, Why do people kill people who kill people to show that killing people is bad?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, the mystery surrounding the suspicious death of a young Washington, D.C., beauty who worked in futures trading. Who killed 29-year-old Genevieve Orange (ph)?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are actively investigating the death of a 29-year-old woman. Genevieve Orange was found dead inside her apartment with severe blunt trauma to the upper body. Police are now investigating this as a murder. At this point, they do not have any suspects, but they are still combing through the apartment complex for more information and for more interviews. Meanwhile, neighbors and residents are just hearing the news.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s surprising because this is the first time something like this ever happened, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are not revealing whether they do, in fact, believe this is domestic-related. We know that Genevieve Orange was an active member of McLean Bible Church.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful, 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`ve just got to tell you what my feelings are. I don`t like how it smells. I`m being straight with you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t like the smell in the car. I`m being straight with you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We didn`t like the smell, either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m being straight and honest. I said, Hey, Case, you know the back of your trunk to the car, we`ve got these metal wedges you put underneath your wheel of a car if you jack your car so it doesn`t move? I said, Hey I want to get that one out your car because I have one already in the garage. I want to get that other one because I want to go ahead and rotate your mom`s tires over this weekend. In case you`re not home, I`d like to be able to do it. Oh, Dad, I`ll get it out for you. Casey, I`ve got an extra set of keys. I`ll go in the trunk and get it. So her and I got in a little verbal...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t want you to go in the...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She didn`t want me to go in the trunk of the car. So as I`m getting ready to go out through our inner garage door (INAUDIBLE) the big garage door, she just blows right past me. Dad, I`ll get your -- thing. She said something very crude to me that I didn`t appreciate. So as I`m walking out the garage with her, I`m walking at a pretty decent pace, and she`s almost running out to her car. She says, Dad, I`ll get it. I know where it`s at. I said, Casey, I`m capable of reaching inside your trunk of your car, unbolting that thing -- because when I pulled stuff down, I crank it down. And she says, Dad, I`ll get it. As I`m walking, I just get past where the passenger rear taillight is to her car, she throws it up and turns, and she said, Here`s your F-ing cans.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Kathi Belich with WFTV. Kathi, what`s the latest?

KATHI BELICH, WFTV: Well, there`s all kinds of information that`s coming out. You were talking about that gas can incident, and he said that she just did not want him anywhere near the trunk of that car. Now, also, the employee at the tow truck company said that he smelled that smell in the trunk, as well, when he was with George and he was so panicked when they found a trash can in that trunk that there was going to be a body in that bag. And he said that they lifted that bag, and it was light and he just sort of went, Whew! There`s no body in that bag. Just horrible stories, horrible stories.

GRACE: To Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. He`s joining us from outside the Anthony home there in Orlando. What can you tell me about mom, Casey Anthony, actually visiting missing children Web sites, researching missing children as far back as May?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Yes, that was -- it happened, actually, on a computer that was right there in that home that was confiscated by investigators in the beginning of this investigation. And there were several searches for missing children, as I understand it, as far back as March, so you know, months before Caylee ever went missing.

GRACE: To Dr. Lisa Boesky, psychologist and author of "When to Worry." What does that say to you, Doctor?

LISA BOESKY, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, clearly, most 20-somethings are not on Web sites looking for missing children. So the fact that she was on there makes me wonder, Was she looking at what, What is kind of a real story when kids disappear, so that when she does what she`s going to do with Caylee, she can make it look like a, quote, unquote, "disappearance."

GRACE: What do you make of that? To Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California. Leonard?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, let me tell you. Casey is really a study. When you look at everything that`s come out...

GRACE: Hey, hey. You know, Leonard, we`ve got a lot to go through, so tell me something I don`t already know, all right?

PADILLA: OK. I`ll tell you this. Casey is a whiz at coming up with ideas, and most of them are lying ideas, much like the Zenaida situation.

GRACE: Here she is. I thought it was May, but you know, Petrimoulx is right, it goes all the way back to March, where she is on line, looking up missing children Web sites. And then suddenly, boom, in June, her child goes missing. Leonard?

PADILLA: You`re right. And the thing -- let me explain something to you. If you go on your computer, you will find that Zenaida`s car looks exactly like a Kia. Excuse me, the car that she described Zenaida having, that Ford Focus, looks like a Kia. And Kia -- and Zenaida has a Kia that she drives. So when she was driving around the Sawgrass Apartments that day, she had Tony`s Jeep on the 17th. She was driving Tony`s Jeep. And that`s when she spotted Zenaida in a Kia, but she thought it was a Ford Focus. So she immediately jumped on that and said, Hey, Zenaida Gonzalez driving a 2008 Ford Focus.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Bombshell discoveries revealed in hundreds of documents released by police, including mom, Casey Anthony, actually surfing the Web to missing children Web sites just days and weeks before her own child goes missing. Not only that, we learn where cops focus in on Cindy Anthony, confronting her about changing her story. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can`t say -- listen, I can`t stand there in front of a newscast with you and say everything that you`ve told so far is the same thing that we have been saying all along, because -- I can`t tell them. You changed it. And that`s changing the focus from Caylee. Our ultimate goal is to find Caylee. We`re going to do everything we can, we`ve been doing every thing we can to find Caylee. I need you on my side.

CINDY ANTHONY: I want to be on your side. I told you that from day one. Why do you think George and I let you have free rein? When we tried to give you stuff, no one wanted to take it.

I think that Zanny, at this point, was a real person in the beginning, but I think Zanny is now whoever is watching Caylee. In my mind...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Transferred the responsibility?

CINDY ANTHONY: Yes. So I think she refers to -- I believe...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think we`re spinning our wheels, looking for Zanny?

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not sure. But my -- I have two theories, and I`ll share that with you. I think Zanny could either be Amy or Jesse at this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. We finally hear grandmother, Cindy Anthony, revealing who she believes Zenaida Gonzalez is. In essence, there is no Zenaida Gonzalez. Even her own mother says so. She asserts the theory that it`s code name for whoever is taking care of little Caylee at that moment.

PETRIMOULX: Right. And the other thing, she also, you know, puts some blame and some suspicion that she`s had on her ex-fiance, Jesse Grund, saying that she`s always thought that he was suspicious. She talks about some incidents that they -- some confrontations that they had where he treated her rudely, in her mind. And you know, she says that she`s always had him in her mind as being suspect number one.

GRACE: As a matter of fact, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: (INAUDIBLE) day by day with Jesse, and he`s had a lot of discrepancies. In fact, I wrote down everything as he was talking to me, and he changed his story two and three times.

It was a 18-minute conversation on June 27 that he had with Casey, and she invited him out to Fusian`s to cheer him up.

He told me it was June 27. And I was writing it as we`re talking, and I said, Are you sure it was June 27? He goes, Absolutely. It was that Friday that we went out. And I says, Well, you talked to her for 18 minutes. Did you hear Caylee in the background? Did you talk about Caylee? He goes, yes, I asked her where she was, and she said she was with the baby-sitter at the beach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: We walked in the room, and Jesse was in Casey`s bed. They were watching TV, and the baby was with them. And I said, Jesse, it`s my house, my rules. I said, You have to respect that. If you don`t respect that, then, you know, we`re going to have an issue because you`re not married to my daughter yet. And I said, Just because you`re engaged or whatever still doesn`t change the rules of this house. And I said, You need to respect it. And I mean, he got very angry, a shouting match, and you know, to the point where I felt very uncomfortable. And that was the first turning point where I thought, This kid is not a good person for my daughter.

CINDY ANTHONY: And I (INAUDIBLE) day by day with Jesse, and he`s had a lot of discrepancies. In fact, I wrote down everything as he was talking to me, and he changed his story two and three times.

It was a 18-minute conversation on June 27 that he had with Casey, and she invited him out to Fusian`s to cheer him up.

He told me it was June 27. And I was writing it as we`re talking, and I said, Are you sure it was June 27? He goes, Absolutely. It was that Friday that we went out. And I says, Well, you talked to her for 18 minutes. Did you hear Caylee in the background? Did you talk about Caylee? He goes, yes, I asked her where she was, and she said she was with the baby-sitter at the beach.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Here, you actually see grandmother Cindy Anthony, pointing the finger at ex-fiance Jesse Grund. And with us, his father, Richard Grund is with us. Richard, response?

RICHARD GRUND, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE: Typical Cindy Anthony, point the finger at somebody else, do misdirection, get the attention off your daughter and hope that people believe you.

GRACE: Well, my question is, even if everything that she just said is true -- even if -- what does that have to do with Caylee missing?

GRUND: It doesn`t have anything to do with Caylee missing. But like I said, this is typical of instead of looking at the prime suspect in her own household, she wants you to think it`s Jesse or it`s Amy. And she talks about Jesse`s discrepancies. He clarified one statement with law enforcement. Cindy hasn`t said the same thing twice since this began.

GRACE: And isn`t that true that your son took a lie detector test and passed?

GRUND: Jesse not only took a voluntary lie detector and passed, he went to law enforcement and gave two official statements before Cindy`s even given one. He gives them all of his phone records. He gives them anything they need to help find Caylee and get out of their way. And by that point, Cindy hasn`t done anything. In that interview, if you look, they can`t even get her to give them her credit card records. She wants to just give her receipts.

GRACE: Why?

GRUND: Well, it would seem to me that there`s something that she doesn`t want them to know, or by this point -- by this point, which is August 1, I have already heard from other news people in town that they are working in an attempt to implicate Jesse. And then I heard from a very reliable source, Leonard Padilla, that this was an active attempt. So what you`re hearing is a well-rehearsed effort to get them to look at somebody else other than their daughter.

GRACE: Let`s go to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California. He actually put up the original half a million dollar bond for Casey to be free from jail before he came off that bond. Leonard Padilla, why the focus on ex-fiance Jesse Grund? Is it an attempt to suggest that he`s got a hairpin trigger anger and that anger resulted in some harm to little Caylee? Is that where this is going?

PADILLA: No. Cindy -- Cindy realized right away what had happened and who the cause was behind it. She never believed for one minute that there was a Zenaida. When I talked to Jose, the very first meeting I had with him, he showed me a card...

GRACE: You mean Jose Baez, the defense attorney?

PADILLA: Jose, Baez, yes. He showed me a card that had been given to him by Casey, and Cindy had knowledge of it, that, you know, expressed Jesse`s affection and love for the baby. Well, when you look at that card, you can misread it and misunderstand it. But it was just an affectionate card from an individual that cared very much for the child and the child`s mother.

Also, Cindy made a point several times of indicating that she felt that Jesse had something to do with the child`s disappearance, Jesse was to blame, Jesse was at fault. And myself and my people would sit there and just look at her, like, Cindy, you know? Come on. You`re not talking to somebody that doesn`t know what happens in these things. And she would insist on attempting to take your mind and bend it around Jesse constantly.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Debra in Virginia. Hi, Debra.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Good to talk with you.

GRACE: Likewise. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A couple of weeks ago, Leonard Padilla had mentioned that Equusearch had stopped searching for Caylee.

GRACE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are they going to come back and continue their search, or are there any other search teams that are actually looking for her right now?

GRACE: Leonard, what do we know?

PADILLA: I do know this, that if you talk to Tim and his people, they were very annoyed and upset at the way they were treated by Cindy publicly and privately. They were there to do a job. Cindy just wanted them to stand up and say, Hey, Caylee is alive, and she is in Puerto Rico, or, Caylee is alive, and Jesse took her away. They didn`t want a search to be done in the manner that they constantly do them.

GRACE: Everybody, we`re taking your calls live. To Debbie in Georgia. Hi, Debbie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- being a new grandmother myself, I don`t understand why the grandparents are not helping find that baby.

GRACE: To Lisa Boesky, psychologist and author. Dr. Boesky, I really believe that they think they`re choosing to believe the child is still alive.

BOESKY: I don`t know, Nancy. I`ve got to say, as I watch the grandparents, I really think they are the only ones that know Casey, truly know her, and I think that they know what she`s capable of. I think that Cindy has very mixed emotions about this because I think Caylee was a little bit of a pawn between them. You know, Casey held Caylee against the grandmother, Cindy. Grandmother, Cindy, held her against Casey. And so I think there`s a lot of mixed emotions, and I think that`s why Cindy goes back and forth between protecting her daughter and then throwing her under the bus.

I think that Cindy feels like she could have played a role in this, not purposely, but because of Casey`s anger with her.

GRACE: Let`s go straight back out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What about these documents revealing mom, Casey Anthony, Googling the name over and over, "Zenaida Gonzalez"? Explain.

PETRIMOULX: Yes, and that happened on July 16, which you recall is, you know, right around the time when everything breaks down and her life starts to catch up to her. Investigators are pretty hot on her trail at that point. So you know, that`s what she did. She searched on her home computer, Google searched the name, "Zenaida Gonzalez." That wasn`t the first time that we heard the name, though. If you look at some of the computer documents, we see her talking about that name way back in May.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Any time Caylee ever stayed away from the house, Casey said she was with Zanny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CINDY ANTHONY: And it wasn`t that often that -- you know, maybe a night here or there sporadically. But she always said she was crashing at Zanny`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I mean, I don`t recall Caylee being gone over many nights. If any, maybe one. And the only time Casey ever told me -- the only place that Caylee would ever stay over was they were crashing at Zanny`s. She never told me she was taking her to Ricardo`s, never told me she was taking her anywhere else except Zanny`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. To Maryann in Pennsylvania. Hi, Maryann.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show, and your kids are adorable.

GRACE: Thank you. What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is regarding Leonard Padilla and the $50,000 that he offered as a reward for information for the child. I know that Equusearch is not involved anymore, but aren`t there other companies he could put that money toward, other investigatory companies that he could put that money toward...

GRACE: What about it, Leonard?

PADILLA: Obviously, the best in the business is Tim. And if Tim was to tell me that there was another company out there that could do the job better than him, I`d believe him. But I tell you this, there`s no company out there better than Tim`s, none at all.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: She didn`t call me back all day, and I was a little bit worried when I realized she wasn`t home. I thought I had a little sick feeling that something wasn`t right.

So she finally called me back later, in the evening, probably after 5:30, because I was already leaving work. And she called -- she was apologizing. She said, mom, I know I should have called you.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: This day?

C. ANTHONY: Yes, that day.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: A little after 5:30?

C. ANTHONY: Sometime after 5:30, I`m sure, because it was on my way home from work.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: And what did she say? What happened?

C. ANTHONY: She told me that they had gotten to -- that she -- her and Zanny -- I mean, Raquel and Zanny were about eight cars ahead of her and Juliette and the girls.

Casey had her car, Zanny had her car. So Zanny and Raquel were ahead, and somehow there was an accident. Casey and Juliette witnessed the accident, so they followed them, the paramedics, to the hospital.

And I asked her, I said, was it Tampa General? And she said, yes. So she said they went to Tampa General Hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: So you were all at Tampa General.

C. ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: . on the 23rd.

C. ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Sometime after 5:30.

C. ANTHONY: Yes. Well, they were there during -- the accident happened in the morning. That`s what she said. But I found out about it when Casey finally called me back. She apologized to me for not calling her back sooner.

But she said they were tied up. She was there in the ER with, you know, with Zanny or Raquel.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: So Zanny was treated for an injury?

C. ANTHONY: That`s what she said. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: At the Tampa General?

C. ANTHONY: Because I think I told.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: OK. We`ll get past that and we`ll do it now. I mean if there was an oversight, we`re just going to pass it.

C. ANTHONY: Yes, I.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: OK.

C. ANTHONY: It was sometime. If not you, I told Sergeant Allen.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: All right. Well, that`s the kind of -- that`s why we`re in here.

C. ANTHONY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: All right? That`s pretty significant.

C. ANTHONY: Yes. She said that Raquel had a broken arm, and she said that they were finally getting a hold of Raquel`s mom. And Raquel`s mom was coming from Jacksonville.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Broken arm. And what kind of injuries did Zanny have?

C. ANTHONY: She said Zanny had a concussion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Out to Sergeant Scott Haines, sheriffs officer with Santa Rosa County -- Florida. Sergeant, what about her caught online, Googling Zenaida Gonzalez?

Basically, in my mind, creating the identity. Even her own mother now says the name Zenaida Gonzalez was code for whomever was keeping Caylee at that moment.

SGT. SCOTT HAINES, SHERIFF`S OFFICER, SANTA ROSA COUNTY, FLORIDA: Absolutely. There is no doubt that she totally had this planned out and plotting this huge thing in advance to try and have an alibi.

When she first came out and was speaking of this Zenaida Gonzalez, she seemed very fluent with it as she talked about her and seemed like she knew everything about this woman, and that is, in fact, because she had been researching her for so long and had it so well-scripted.

There is no doubt in my mind, and I`m sure it`s in Cindy`s mind now, too, that there is no such person and they`re just grasping for straws to figure out what happened to her granddaughter.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us now out of Washington, D.C., Christopher Amolsch, criminal defense attorney. Also out of New York, veteran trial lawyer, Carmen St. George.

Don`t you see -- to the two of you -- the significance of mom, Casey Anthony, online Googling a Zenaida Gonzalez? She wasn`t looking up, like, I would look up, Attorney Carmen St. George, New York City, if I wanted to find your work address.

She was trying to fabricate, Carmen -- and Christopher -- she was trying to create a Zenaida Gonzalez, even her own mother says, there`s no Zenaida Gonzalez, Carmen. Don`t you see the significance of her whole alibi, her whole story about what happened to little Caylee?

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think the more people talk, the more their defense at trial becomes a prisoner of their words. If they can show that she was actually the one on the computer Googling a person which is nonexistent, then, yes, that`s going to be used against her at trial. It`s going to be to be very damaging.

GRACE: And what about it, Christopher? How would you fight something like that at trial? These records are going to come in.

CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, two things. One, there is no evidence that I can see that Caylee is the one that was Googling. And two.

GRACE: Caylee is only 3.

AMOLSCH: I`m sorry -- sorry, Casey. And secondly there is no evidence that Casey.

GRACE: Well, it`s her computer and she`s logged on under her pass name. So now there`s a conspiracy? Somebody logged on as her, under her pass code, to, what, frame her?

AMOLSCH: There is no evidence Casey can think around the corner, much less three months ahead of time. And there is no evidence of that.

GRACE: Well, then how do you know explain the search?

AMOLSCH: Somebody has her password. Maybe somebody she was dating. Maybe somebody in that house. How many people in houses share passwords?

GRACE: You`re really going to stand in front of a jury with that, or is it just because you have nothing else to say? And I don`t mind that.

AMOLSCH: It`s not that I have nothing else to say.

GRACE: It is what it is.

AMOLSCH: They can`t prove that she`s the one who did it, and Casey can`t think until the next moment. Forget setting this up for three months. That is not her MO at all.

GRACE: Really?

AMOLSCH: Where is the evidence that she can think at all down the road?

GRACE: Well, number one.

AMOLSCH: Everybody says she doesn`t think.

GRACE: . according to police documents, you have her back in March looking up missing children`s Web sites, and then, what a coinki-dink, her child goes missing.

AMOLSCH: Well, there`s.

GRACE: Now you`ve got her creating, fabricating a Zenaida Gonzalez, and it doesn`t end there. There is this huge, elaborate lie she tries to tell her mother to get out of a phone call -- or get out of something innocuous about Zenaida Gonzalez has a crash, and she was following Zenaida Gonzalez, and Zenaida Gonzalez had to go to the hospital at Tampa General with her sister, Raquel?

You know what, Sergeant Scott Haines, she really screwed up on that one, because all they`ve got to do is subpoena Tampa General records which shows there is no Zenaida Gonzalez or a sister Raquel ever treated at that time.

HAINES: That`s very true. And that`s a very easy thing to find out. Just like everything else, even when she brought investigators to Universal. She comes up with these things that she thinks she has planned out well in her own mind, and obviously, when she hits the dead end, she changes it to something else that sounds just as ridiculous.

So it`s going to be interesting to see what comes up next.

GRACE: You know, it`s amazing, this story that she tells, in a police interview, this elaborate lie, about a car crash.

To Natisha Lance, our producer standing by at the Anthony home. What was the purpose of this elaborate lie about the made-up nanny being in a car crash and splitting her skull open, and having to go to the hospital? What was the purpose of that lie?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Casey had told her parents that she was going to be working late, and then that working late turned into a conference that was -- and they were going to be staying overnight at Hard Rock Cafe.

Then the Hard Rock Cafe turned into Bush Gardens and so on and so forth. And then they wind up at the hospital.

GRACE: So what was the purpose of the lie, Natisha? Why the lie? What was she trying to avoid?

LANCE: She was trying to avoid going home, Nancy. And for whatever reason, she did not want to be at home with her parents. She was probably going out and partying, as we have seen in every other situation.

GRACE: Let`s take a listen to mom, Casey Anthony, in bombshell recordings, just released. More about the fabrication of her alibi regarding where is Caylee. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

C. ANTHONY: She didn`t call me back all day, and I was a little bit worried and realized she wasn`t home, I thought I had a little sick feeling that something wasn`t right.

So she finally called me back later, in the evening, probably after 5:30, because I was already leaving work. And she called -- she was apologizing. She said, mom, I know I should have called you.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: This day?

C. ANTHONY: Yes, that day.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: A little after 5:30?

C. ANTHONY: Sometime after 5:30, I`m sure, because it was on my way home from work.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: And what did she say? What happened?

C. ANTHONY: She told me that they had gotten to -- that she -- her and Zanny -- I mean, Raquel and Zanny were about eight cars ahead of her and Juliette and the girls.

Casey had her car, Zanny had her car. So Zanny and Raquel were ahead, and somehow there was an accident. Casey and Juliette witnessed the accident, so they followed them, the paramedics, to the hospital.

And I asked her, I said, was it Tampa General? And she said, yes. So she said they went to Tampa General Hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: So you were all at Tampa General.

C. ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: . on the 23rd.

C. ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Sometime after 5:30.

C. ANTHONY: Yes. Well, they were there during -- the accident happened in the morning. That`s what she said. But I found out about it when Casey finally called me back. She apologized to me for not calling her back sooner.

But she said they were tied up. She was there in the ER with, you know, with Zanny or Raquel.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: So Zanny was treated for an injury?

C. ANTHONY: That`s what she said. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: At the Tampa General?

C. ANTHONY: Because I think I told you guys that. You can check that out.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: OK. We`ll get past that. We`ll do it now. I mean if there was an oversight, we`re just going to pass it.

C. ANTHONY: Yes, I.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: OK.

C. ANTHONY: It was sometime. If not you, I told Sergeant Allen.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: All right. Well, that`s the kind of -- that`s why we`re in here.

C. ANTHONY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: All right? That`s pretty significant.

C. ANTHONY: Yes. She said that Raquel had a broken arm, and she said that they were finally getting a hold of Raquel`s mom. And Raquel`s mom was coming from Jacksonville. She had to come down and be with her.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Broken arm. And what kind of injuries did Zanny have?

C. ANTHONY: She said Zanny had a concussion.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: All of that could be documented if it really happened. That`s a mighty big lie, just to avoid going home for one night.

Everybody, as we go to break, I want to thank you on behalf of veteran defense attorney Sandy Schiff. Your prayers and good thoughts have been heard. She is headed home after the fight of a lifetime battling leukemia. The next 100 days for her are critical.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: There is no ridiculous question.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Did you have a stroke on the 13th that you were treated at the hospital for?

G. ANTHONY: Curious where you got that from.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Well, I`ll shed the light on it for you.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: You don`t look as if you`ve had a stroke last month.

G. ANTHONY: Well, let`s put it this way. A few years ago, I thought I almost did because I had a knee replacement. But that was, what, four, three years ago? Just before I had my knee replacement when that happened.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Your daughter, it seems, has a pattern of -- she has made a date with a friend or scheduled to do something, and she needs to come up with a reason not to do it, instead of just saying, I don`t feel like going.

She comes up with some of the -- you had a stroke on the 13th, and she was unable to go to Jacksonville with someone, because she was busy at the hospital with you. So it`s always on the extreme.

G. ANTHONY: That`s extreme, all right.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Yes.

G. ANTHONY: Because if I had a stroke, I wouldn`t be sitting here talking to you guys.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: I wouldn`t think so.

G. ANTHONY: I mean let me put it this way. If I was, it would be sort of like a miracle.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED POLICE OFFICER: I still have to ask.

G. ANTHONY: Oh, I know. This is getting so bizarre. This is just unbelievable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I believe the legal definition would be nut job? But under the law, this clearly is not going to rise to the level of legal insanity. I`ll unleash the lawyers in just a moment.

But first, to Dr. Michael Arnall -- Doctor, we heard her telling somebody her father had a stroke in order to get out of some obligation she had. Earlier we heard that she nearly came to blows with her father about going into that car trunk. She did not want him in there.

Tell me something. How long after you put a body in a trunk in Florida weather would it become apparent, if you got near the car, there was a dead body inside?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: You could get a malodorous situation in as little as 36 hours. And then as you go on from there, it`s going to get much worse.

GRACE: Let`s unleash the lawyers. Christopher Amolsch out of Washington, Carmen St. George out of New York.

Christopher, clearly a nut job, but based on her computer searches, and what we were learning in these newly-released conversations and text messages, she wasn`t insane. Maybe crazy like a fox.

AMOLSCH: OK, well, this is the evil genius, right, the one who searched for three months to set up this false identity for a nanny, but can`t figure out that people are going to search the hospital records when she makes up an accident.

This is not the -- activity of somebody who thinks this far ahead. This is the activity of somebody who may be a nut job and is impulsive, but is not planning.

GRACE: Carmen St. George?

ST. GEORGE: Oh definitely, Nancy. Not one that would rise to the level of legal insanity, by any means. She would have to be proven to not have understood the capacity of her actions at the time that she committed any crime.

So I don`t think this will meet that level. It would be clear if they could prove this case against her that she had some sort of slip-up. But it definitely wasn`t being legally insane.

GRACE: And to Richard Grund, the father of mom, Casey Anthony`s ex- fiance, Jesse Grund, what do you make of suggestions she`s legally insane? Do you buy that?

RICHARD GRUND, DAD OF CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE, JESSE GRUND: You know, I`m not a doctor. I just know what I saw. And the Casey that I saw, yes, she was a liar and she had a problem with the truth.

But now we`re starting to see something completely different. We`re starting to see a Casey that nobody recognizes. If you read all of the statements from all of the friends they are all saying the same thing, we don`t know who this girl is.

GRACE: Man, her lying has gone to a whole new level, and underneath it all, somewhere is the truth about where is little Caylee.

Right now, I want to tell you about the mystery surrounding the death of a beautiful young girl. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Fairfax County police want to know whether anybody saw someone come or go from Orange`s apartment. Police got a call from a family member to check on her.

They found Orange`s body in her apartment yesterday morning. Investigators will say only she died from blunt-force trauma to the upper body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I always see her alone. I always see her alone.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: When shown her picture, Orange`s neighbors say they frequently saw her around the complex. Some of them here complained, security needs improvement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: A 29-year-old beauty that worked in the futures industry has been found brutally murdered.

I want to go to Nicole Partin, an investigative reporter. What can you tell me, in a nutshell, about her death? What happened?

NICOLE PARTIN, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Good evening, Nancy, Thursday evening, police went to the home of Miss Orange to do a simple welfare check, after a family member reported that they could not reach Genevieve or Ginny, as she was known by her friends.

Upon entering the apartment, unfortunately, police found that she had been killed with what they believe to be by blunt force trauma to the upper body.

Now I spoke to the Fairfax County Police Department a few hours ago. They`re being very tight-lipped about the case, but they said that authorities are diligently investigating Ginny`s murder.

GRACE: Tip line, 1866-411-TIPS, 411-8477.

To Doctor Marty Makary, professor of public health at Johns Hopkins, a friend of Genevieve Orange, the deceased young lady, what can you tell me about her?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Yes, Nancy, we`ve been talking about medical aspects of cases for so long, and now this is somebody who actually is a good friend of our family.

She was active in McClaine Bible Church, our church. She was active in her small group. Her friends who know her best say that she loved Jesus and tried to emulate him in every aspect of her life. She was the perfect daughter, the perfect friend, and the perfect employee.

GRACE: You know I`m just stunned, with her lifestyle, which was very low-key, not out partying late at night, that this would happen to her. What leads do you believe police are pursuing?

MAKARY: Well, we have the preliminary autopsy report, which basically says there was blunt trauma to the upper extremities. Now the final report, which typically takes a week, will tell us the size of the bruises and the blood clots to figure out what kind of force was involved.

At this point, the police aren`t even saying if there was forced entry. So there`s a lot we don`t know. I can tell you that this is the last person anybody would think would have somebody out after them to try to hurt them.

GRACE: To Nicole Partin, investigative reporter -- Nicole, do police have any suspects or a person of interest?

PARTIN: They`re not releasing any of that information, Nancy. As I said, I spoke to them earlier today. They`re being very tight-lipped, but I was assured by the Fairfax County Police Department that they are continuing this investigation.

I also spoke to someone from her church who said the same thing. Very, very stable young lady, very much loved by everyone who knew her, colleagues at her work said she was dependable. Everyone loved her. Apparently no enemies.

What went wrong, they`re still trying to figure it out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A beautiful young woman found dead. I want to go straight back out to Dr. Marty Makary, professor of public health at Johns Hopkins who was a friend of the victim, Genevieve Orange.

Doctor, does this look like a targeted murder, or do you believe it is just random and a crime of opportunity?

MAKARY: Well, what we do know is that although nobody can cite any sort of conflict in her life where somebody would want to hurt her, she did live on the first floor of a large apartment building in not the greatest section of a city.

And we know from statistics that first floor apartments are more likely for random crimes.

GRACE: To Sergeant Scott Haines -- Sergeant, I understand that being on the first level, but usually when you get a burglar -- I`ve heard no evidence of a sex attack. Burglars typically do not kill.

HAINES: That`s very true. This sounds like something that was more than just a burglary or somebody coming in to ransack the apartment. I`m sure the police know a lot more.

GRACE: Yes.

HAINES: . than they are releasing. They don`t want to give away their cards. But I`m sure they`re doing a fine job and unfortunately.

GRACE: To Dr. Makary -- Dr. Makary, very quickly, we`re running out of time -- sorry about that, Sergeant Haines -- do we know what the object was? Is it something the perp came in with or was it something they -- was just found in the home?

MAKARY: At this point, all we know -- the only thing the police have said, and it`s frustrating a lot of people, is that there was blunt trauma to her upper body.

GRACE: So we don`t even have a murder weapon yet?

MAKARY: Correct.

GRACE: OK. Dr. Makary, our sympathies out to the family, and Nicole Partin, thank for being with us.

Let`s stop, everyone, and remember Marine Lance Corporal Dean Opicka, 29, Waukesha, Wisconsin, killed, Iraq. A Carroll College grad, double majored in psychology and history. A teacher working with agencies, helping those with disabilities.

Loves football, basketball, baseball, handing out candy to Iraqi kids. Dreamed of teaching at his former high school. Leaves behind parents David and Donna, brother, Darren, also serving marines, Fiance, Katie.

Deane Opicka, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you for inviting us into your homes. I`ll see you tomorrow, 8 o`clock sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0809/29/ng.01.html

[Blonde]

NANCY GRACE

Witness List for Possible Casey Anthony Trial Revealed

Aired September 30, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for a beautiful little 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee, after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for 15 long weeks, last seen with her mother. So why didn`t Mommy call police?
Headlines tonight. Police and prosecutors painstakingly building a case against mom, Casey Anthony. And tonight, just revealed, the state`s witness list. Over 80 witnesses listed to prove a case at trial against mom, Casey, in the disappearance of 3-year-old Caylee, the line-up including the obvious -- the Anthony family, mom Casey`s cohorts, her multiple boyfriends, all set to confirm mom, Casey`s, web of lies about little Caylee`s whereabouts. This as the Orange County sheriff announces the investigation could proceed as a homicide even without a body.

And tonight, more stunning police interrogation. Grandparents George and Cindy Anthony caught on tape. Have police ended the search for Caylee? Are they convinced she`ll never be found alive? Tonight, where is 3-year- old Caylee?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SGT. JOHN ALLEN, ORANGE CTY SHERIFF`S INVESTIGATOR: We spent the first day of the investigation with the mother prior to her arrest. We talked to her for a couple of hours. The initial information that she gave us, we called -- of course, a lot of what she told us when we first began talking to her turned out to be false information.

CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: And there are certain things that the family can`t say. There are certain things that we do know. There are certain things that Casey knows that she can`t tell. But you know, frankly, there`s not a whole lot of people that we trust.

GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: She knows who has her daughter. She knows her daughter is safe. And I got to believe her that she knows everything is OK.

ZENAIDA GONZALEZ, CAYLEE`S ALLEGED NANNY: I want the truth to come out. I want them to know that I didn`t do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think we`re spinning our wheels looking for a Zanny?

CINDY ANTHONY: I`m not sure. But my -- I have two theories, and I`ll share that with you. I think Zanny could either be Amy or Jesse, at this point.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JESSE GRUND, CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-FIANCE: Do I believe it`s possible that someone -- that Caylee did have a nanny and Casey lied to her enough about her family that she thinks that she`s protecting them right now -- that she thinks she`s protecting Caylee? I don`t see why not. We can all tell that from the last couple years, Casey is a very effective liar. I think I would use the word "diabolical" to describe the way she lies.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

SHERIFF KEVIN BEARY, ORANGE COUNTY, FL: That`s a very sensitive case, and it always is tough that if you end up going down that path of not -- of working a homicide case without a body, it`s even tougher.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a beautiful young Arizona woman, Anne Carver, heads out for a morning jog with her dog. Just 30 minutes later, the dog shows back up, leash still attached, but no Anne Carver. Tonight, what happened to the 34-year-old Arizona beauty?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, it`s a helpless feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the family of Anne Carver...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just like she vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... waiting for word on the 34-year-old woman`s whereabouts is stressful. Her disappearance is baffling. Anne went missing early Monday morning when her family says she went for a jog with her pet dog, Xena. Anne`s dog returned home wearing her leash, but Anne never did. Police launched helicopters to search the neighborhood, while Anne`s family tried to gather clues from Anne`s unharmed pet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she -- she knows something is -- something is fishy. I wish she could talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s really pretty far out of bounds. I mean, we would not expect anything like this from her at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful, 3-year-old Florida girl, Caylee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BEARY: It`s not "Walker Texas Ranger," where you can go to the computer and get DNA and all that in three seconds. It doesn`t work that way. And so we`re going to do -- do it by the book and do it right the first time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think this is her being truthful?

LEE ANTHONY, MISSING TODDLER`S UNCLE: To the best of her ability right now, I do. Frankly, I wouldn`t still be here if I didn`t think that she was trying to cooperate with me.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LEE ANTHONY: When I asked her, why won`t you, you know, allow us to see Caylee, and she said, Well, maybe I`m a spiteful (DELETED)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Zanny is the baby-sitter that has watched Caylee consistently for the last maybe year-and-a-half. Nobody that you met, so - - there was no reason to meet her.

GONZALEZ: I wouldn`t even trust my family (INAUDIBLE) it is right now because my name is involved.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GRUND: Could she have ripped off the wrong person there or pissed off the wrong person? Absolutely. Could she have become a drug user to appease Tony? She became a Yankee fan to appease me, and she hates the Yankees. She does things to chameleon -- she`s, like, a chameleon when she`s with a guy.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ANTHONY LAZZARO, CASEY ANTHONY`S EX-BOYFRIEND: She would wake up and -- or wake me up even in the middle of the night or I just would wake up in the middle of the night and see that she was sweaty in bed. And I would ask her why. And she said that she was having a nightmare or something.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: You guys don`t know. The person who was in the back of my granddaughter`s car is not my granddaughter! So why don`t you guys get your facts straight!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Finally revealed, the state`s witness list, over 80 people in line to testify in the state`s case against mom, Casey Anthony. The disappearance of her little girl has been a long time coming.

Out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. What`s the latest, Drew?

DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: Well, first off, is that list is 82 people, ranges from, you know, all the people that we`ve seen play prominent roles in this case -- her mother, Cindy, her dad, George, and her brother, Lee. There`s also all the people that we`ve seen in these audio and videotapes throughout the investigation -- her friends, her roommates, her lovers, the boys that she, you know, spent the night at their houses. There`s also about 30 people that are on there that are -- that carry the title Orange County Sheriff`s Office. So they`re obviously, you know, part of the sheriff`s office. And they also play into this case, as well.

GRACE: I`ve gone through the witness list extensively. There are over 80 witnesses listed here. A lot of them are self-explanatory, such as the Anthony family. I also see on here -- out to Nikki Pierce with WDBO -- Jeff Hopkins, Jeff Hopkins II. Now, isn`t it true that mom, Casey Anthony, claims that is how she met Zenaida Gonzalez?

NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: That`s true, Nancy. She said that she worked with Jeff Hopkins at Kodak, at Universal, and that he introduced her to Zenaida, who was a nanny for him and his child. We know that that is not the case, that Jeff Hopkins was a real person, but the circumstances, Casey made up.

GRACE: Now, isn`t it true -- out to Natisha Lance, standing by there at the Anthony home there in Orlando. Natisha, isn`t it true that not only does mom, Casey Anthony, state that she met the imaginary nanny through Jeff Hopkins, she claimed a co-worker, she later added to the story and said that she and Jeff Hopkins had dated, and he essentially had a baby that Zanny baby-sat for, and they kind of threw Caylee in, into the mix for free, that Zenaida Gonzalez was baby-sitting Caylee and somebody else?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s correct, Nancy. The story was that he had this son, Zachary, and they were close to the same age as Caylee, and all three of them would go off to the beach and other places together, and once again, that she was introduced through Jeffrey Hopkins.

GRACE: And what does Jeff Hopkins say about that, Natisha Lance?

LANCE: Well, we`ve actually spoken to Jeffrey Hopkins`s father, and he indicated to us that he kind of knew Casey in high school but he hadn`t even worked at Universal in quite some time and he did not recall his son working there with Casey Anthony at all.

GRACE: And of course, he did not introduce Zenaida Gonzalez to mom, Casey Anthony.

LANCE: No, absolutely not.

GRACE: Everybody, we are taking your calls live. Out to Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "I Know What You`re Thinking." Dr. Glass, the intensity and the intricacy of her elaborate lies -- I mean, they can clearly be proven wrong, even where -- I mean, the lies get more and more fantastic.

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, it`s really fascinating to watch. She...

GRACE: I mean, wait -- hold on. Lillian, wait.

GLASS: Sure.

GRACE: In fact, she doesn`t just say, Oh, I met the baby-sitter through this guy I used to work with. Then it goes on. And then he was dating the nanny and then he and the nanny broke up.

GLASS: Right.

GRACE: And then I started dating him, and then I got the nanny for free. She continued taking care of his child and my child. I`m his new girlfriend. It doesn`t make any sense. The lies get bigger and crazier and crazier.

GLASS: Exactly. And when people lie, when there`s deception, they go on and on like that. They spin tales. And you wonder if there`s some type of sociopathy going on. She is scary!

GRACE: You know, everyone, we now have more interrogation by police. We also have tonight the state`s witness list just revealed. I want you to hear some more of this police interrogation, George and Cindy Anthony caught on tape. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she actually told you on the 16th, I plan on staying at Zanny`s for a late event.

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes. Most definitely.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mom starts calling. Apparently, Mom says that she had some form of a big deal going on at work, a convention, so they were staying at the Hard Rock Hotel.

GEORGE ANTHONY: That`s what she told us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

GEORGE ANTHONY: I mean, that`s what my wife reiterated to me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You didn`t have those conversations, just your wife?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. And then there was -- they had to move that to Busch Gardens, Tampa area?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And that`s where Zanny got in her car accident?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Supposedly, Zanny got in this car accident. Casey was following at some distance behind her, and Zanny got involved in this accident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hospitalized at Tampa General?

GEORGE ANTHONY: That`s what we were told.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Treated for a concussion?

GEORGE ANTHONY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then the next day, the ER nurse discovered a large laceration behind the ear and had to treat that?

GEORGE ANTHONY: And kept her, I guess, an extra day or something, if I remember correctly, yes.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: And here we hear an explanation of why mom, Casey Anthony, was going back and forth and back and forth to Tampa.

I want to go back out to Drew Petrimoulx with WDBO. Here she is confronted by her father about stealing the gas cans. And she says, Oh, I`ve got to go back and forth because my imaginary nanny had an imaginary car crash in Tampa and I`m going to see her in the hospital. I mean, here we actually have her caught explaining why she needed all that gasoline, Drew Petrimoulx.

PETRIMOULX: Right. And investigators went back and they checked the hospital and there was no record of her ever being in that hospital. There was really no record that she ever had any contact with a Zenaida Gonzalez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: Any time Caylee ever stayed away from the house, Casey said she was with Zanny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.

CINDY ANTHONY: And it wasn`t that often that -- you know, maybe a night here or there, sporadically. But she always said she was crashing at Zanny`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George drove her white car, and he had hit something and killed it because the car was starting to stink.

CINDY ANTHONY: She said it was a squirrel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So she started telling me stories from the 25th on. Why -- I just want to plant the seed, OK? You don`t have to answer. Why would you do that? Why would you try and pass off the smell? Because we all know that there was a smell in the car. I`m not here to dispute what the smell was, OK? We all know there was a very bad smell in the car. Why would she start to say to her friends and text message -- we have text messages. Why would she say, Hey, I think my dad, you know, hit something with the car, and then later on say, yes, it looks like my dad hit something with the car and the car stinks?

CINDY ANTHONY: I have no idea.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GEORGE ANTHONY: I made a report to the Orange County Sheriff`s Department. Now you`ve got the cans. Why do you have them? Well, I`ve been driving them back and forth to Tampa to see Zanny. And I`m, like, Wait a second. You`re supposed to be working, but now you`re in Tampa. This don`t make no sense to me.

And I said, Listen, I`m not going to deal with this right now, but where`s Caylee? What`s going on? You know, I believe I need to know. I`ll talk to you and Mom later. Sure enough, she gets in her car and takes off. I had the gas cans because she handed them to me. I did not look in the trunk because the distance from where I was at -- she (INAUDIBLE) just handed them to me and slammed the trunk right away.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live now. We are getting -- not only the state`s witness list has just been released, over 80 people lined up to testify against mom, Casey Anthony, in the disappearance of her little girl, Caylee, also tonight, more stunning police interrogation has now been released. There you heard, as we were just coming in, the Anthonys being confronted about why mom, Casey, was lying about the smell of death in her car.

Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, former prosecutor Holly Hughes out of Atlanta, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney also out of Atlanta, and from New York, Alex Sanchez.

So Holly, there we have, clearly, the parents claiming they have not been using the car. So we know that her story about a dead animal is a lie. It is a lie, which backs up the cadaver dog findings.

HOLLY HUGHES, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Nancy, everything this girl says is a lie. How do we know she`s lying? Her lips are moving. She cannot tell the truth to save her own life, let alone her child`s. The cadaver dogs hit. They are specially trained to only hit on human remains. So if it wasn`t Caylee in her car, what other dead body was she transporting?

GRACE: Let`s go to the defense lawyers. We are taking your calls live. To Raymond Giudice. Ray, let`s talk about legal ethics for a moment. I assume that you two defense attorneys are familiar with that concept, legal ethics. If a client comes to you, Ray, and says, Yes, I was responsible, it`s an accident and the body is hidden here, what duty is on the defense attorney because that is an ongoing crime?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right, Nancy. Listen, that`s the biggest problem a defense lawyer could ever have. The first answer is, Is there a chance that somebody else could be harmed? In this case, no. Secondly, an ongoing investigation, as counsel I might have to withdraw or I might have to let another counsel come in to take sort of that second part of the case forward and counsel with the client as to what to do. It`s a terrible problem. And you respect a lot of us defense lawyers, Nancy.

GRACE: True.

GIUDICE: And you know that that would put us in a terrible bind on our constitutional obligation to the client, the system, but also to Lady Justice.

GRACE: So Ray, now you`re going a little too far because I`ve never in all the years I`ve seen you practice law ever heard the words "lady" and "justice" put together out of your mouth in one sentence! Don`t go that far.

GIUDICE: Nancy, you cut me off too early so often.

GRACE: All right? Alex Sanchez, practically speaking -- I appreciate the professorial lecture I just heard, but practically speaking, Alex, when somebody comes in, your client, in your office and tells you this, you`re really going to go to prosecutors say, Here`s where the body is?

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No. As a matter of fact, if you decided to go to the prosecutors and reveal that information, you could be brought up on charges before the bar association.

GRACE: You could lose your license.

SANCHEZ: And you can lose your license. So unfortunately...

GRACE: But it is, Alex...

SANCHEZ: ... the state (ph) of the law does not give...

GRACE: ... an ongoing crime.

SANCHEZ: ... permission for them to do it.

GRACE: It is an ongoing crime to continue allowing a body, a human body, to be buried somewhere and you know where the body is concealed.

SANCHEZ: No, but it is not one`s obligation as an attorney to reveal secrets to the police. The only thing you`re allowed to do is to remain silent. You may want to encourage your client to speak to the police and have them come clean. But if he doesn`t want to...

GRACE: And have her charged with murder one...

SANCHEZ: ... come clean, that`s it.

GRACE: ... and look at the Florida death penalty? That`s what you want to encourage your client to do?

SANCHEZ: No, I`m saying that you simply have to advise your client what his options are, and most likely, he will remain silent, as what your recommendation would be.

GRACE: So Ray, what do you do? In light of your earlier lecture, what would you do if your client comes in?

GIUDICE: Well, one thing I might do -- yes, I might see if I can get my client`s permission to approach the prosecution with a hypothetical -- If we had information that could lead to prosecution to the body, what would that lead do for my client? Totally hypothetical. Of course, Nancy, we`d want to deal with an ethical prosecutor like yourself or Holly to approach that. There are some prosecutors I would not approach that.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Let`s go to Dana in Georgia. Hi, Dana.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call. Love you to death!

GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kind of a two-part question. Number one, I want to know what the timeline from when Grandma called in the vehicle to when the police actually seized it or began testing it for DNA, and if there was time for a clean-up in between that time. And if there was time for a clean-up, if the chloroform found in the vehicle would have been able to be used to degrade or cause discrepancies in the DNA results findings.

GRACE: Let`s head the chloroform question first to famed forensic scientist out of John Jay College of Criminal Justice, Lawrence Kobilinsky. Dr. Kobilinsky, I might add, has signed on to the Casey Anthony defense team. Will chloroform break down DNA, Dr. Kobilinsky?

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: No, not at all, Nancy. In fact, chloroform is one of those chemicals that we actually use to clean up a specimen and isolate DNA. All crime labs doing DNA use chloroform in combination with some other chemicals. It will not degrade DNA.

GRACE: And to Nikki Pierce. What about the timeline as to when the car was towed and when the car was cleaned out?

PIERCE: The car was towed in late June, and the Anthonys didn`t get it back until mid-July, I think the day of or the day before they called the police. But there certainly was time to clean out the car. As a matter of fact, we`ve heard some reports that neighbors say that they saw it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: It did seem like -- from our perspective, all it seemed like from day one, you guys were building a case against Casey as a murderer.

(CROSSTALK)

CINDY ANTHONY: She`s not -- one thing I know is she loves that child.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CINDY ANTHONY: I have, like, seven pages of stuff that I asked him. You know how Lee is doing it? I did the same thing to Jesse because he was my first -- he was my first person that I thought of that had a motive, that could intimidate Casey enough to keep her mouth shut, and that would threaten us, because he`s that type of person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A motive? Out to former fed with the FBI Mike Brooks joining us tonight. What is the motive that Jesse Grund, a former fiance and lover of mom, Casey, would have to do away with, sell, kidnap, hide little Caylee?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: There is absolutely nothing, Nancy. I mean, this woman missed her calling. Casey Anthony should have been a fiction writer. But no, there`s no motive whatsoever for Jesse Grund to have any part in this.

GRACE: So Dr. Lillian Glass, why is Cindy Anthony, grandmother Cindy Anthony, pointing the finger elsewhere?

GLASS: Well, she`s already lost the love of her life, that little granddaughter, and she doesn`t want to lose her daughter. She doesn`t want to lose Casey. So she`s pointing the finger. But she knows what`s going on deep inside.

GRACE: Back to Dana in Georgia`s question. I can I think I`ve got the timeline. The 911 call was 9:00 PM July 15. The arrest of mom, Casey, was that night around midnight. The car was found June 27, towed the 30th, and picked up the 15th of July and impounded two days later.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

POLICE: When you guys picked up the car, what else in the car that may not have been in the car when we -- when we inventoried it?

GEORGE: You guys are aware of the smell of the car?

POLICE: Well, I`m trying to tip toe around that issue. Because I know it`s a sensitive one.

GEORGE: I`ve just got to tell you my feelings. I don`t like how it smells. I`m being straight with you guys.

POLICE: I`m sorry?

GEORGE: I don`t like the smell of the car. I`m being straight with you guys.

POLICE: We didn`t like the smell, either.

GEORGE: I`m being straight and honest.

POLICE: We appreciate that, George and we wouldn`t share that with anyone.

POLICE: Yes, because that`s a difficult topic for you.

GEORGE: It`s tough. You know, stuff has got to come out. That`s the way it is. I`m not going to hold back.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a very sensitive case, and it always is tough that if you end up going down that path of not -- of working -- working a homicide case without a body, it`s even tougher. I would like it to come just as fast as everybody else. However, it`s not "Walker, Texas Ranger", where you can go to the computer and get DNA and all that in three seconds. It doesn`t work that way. And so we`re going to do -- do it by the book and do it right the first time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Leonard Padilla, bounty hunter out of Sacramento, California who first put the bond up for Casey Anthony and has been involved ex actively with the Anthony case investigators. Leonard, do you believe the family is geared up for a murder/arrest?

LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: I think they are living in a fictional world. As far as a murder/arrest, they don`t think it will come about, because they don`t have a body. And as long as they can keep a body from being brought forth, they feel quite confident. Now, going back to the night of the 15th when Casey and her mom Cindy got in that big row at the house, that`s what started the whole problem. George wasn`t home that night, and he didn`t se her leave the next morning, because Casey left with her child and spent that night out just talking to Tony, talking to anybody who would talk to her. So that`s where the whole big predicament started. If they hadn`t been feeling guilty for having caused her to leave, we wouldn`t be where we`re at today. Cindy is lying, because she caused her to leave that house that night, and she blames herself for the baby being dead. And she knows it, and George is the second biggest victim in this whole situation. And she knows it.

GRACE: You know, I`m not convinced that the Anthonys truly believe the child is dead, Leonard?

PADILLA: Yep, they absolutely do. Cindy sat with myself and Rob.

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear you. Repeat?

PADILLA: They absolutely do. Because Cindy sat with myself and Rob, Toby and Miguel, when we told her, the baby is dead, and there was no reaction as far as denying it. She just didn`t know what to do or where to go or how to handle it. But she knows the baby is dead.

GRACE: Then why do they continue saying the child is in Puerto Rico or Mexico.

PADILLA: They have to get away from the truth. They can`t live with the truth. Cindy should go back to the realization that she is the one that caused Casey to leave the house that night. If she would realize that .

GRACE: I disagree with you, Leonard. You don`t make somebody else do something. Casey - Mom Casey Anthony was already leaving the house and shacking up with one guy after the next. Where she was keeping the child, I don`t know. But her mother did not make her do these things. They may have had an argument, but she was acting on her own volition.

PADILLA: Cindy put her hands around Casey`s throat and practically choked her out that night. It scared the hell out of Casey. It had never happened before.

GRACE: Why?

PADILLA: Because of the money she stole from her parents. She was so upset about that, that she just could not control herself, and if you listen to George, he`ll tell you, he lives -- he lives with a controlling woman and a controlling daughter.

GRACE: Now, where did you get the information that she actually put her hands around mom Casey`s throat?

PADILLA: You can ask Casey`s brother, Lee. He`ll tell you.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Let`s go out to Jane in New Hampshire. Hi, Jane.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Thanks for taking my call.

GRACE: Yes, ma`am.

CALLER: My question is regarding the nanny. Casey is the only person we know who has seen this woman. Why hasn`t she been asked by the police to sit down with a sketch artist and to compose a picture of this woman to pass around to all of the areas that Casey said that Zani took Caylee and to the apartment complex where Zani was supposedly living?

GRACE: To your knowledge, Mike Brooks, has there been a composite of this Zenaida Gonzalez drawn?

BROOKS: No, Nancy, because there is no person -- they`ve already talked to Zenaida Gonzalez.

GRACE: And how would that hinder the police investigation, Mike Brooks, if police put out a false composite and they have some cockamamie story of Momcasey Anthony?

BROOKS: Well, she has not told the truth since day one.

GRACE: How would it hurt the investigation to put out such a sketch?

BROOKS: You can put out a sketch of somebody she has made up in her fictional mind and if it matches somebody very close, you`re going to get more calls. Would it hurt anything, probably not. But I think it`s a waste of time.

GRACE: I think it would hurt if police absolutely do not believe it`s true. And then when you go to trial, Mike Brooks, think ahead. Think ahead. Say there is a trial in the future for murder, and as the sheriff intimated today. Then you`ve got the defense saying, well, hey, as late as so-and-so, they believed that there was a Zenaida Gonzalez. They even put out the sketch for her.

BROOKS: We know there is no Zenaida Gonzalez, so as you said right at first, it would be a waste of time.

GRACE: Speaking of no Zenaida Gonzalez, to Drew Petrimoulx of WDBO, Zenaida Gonzalez is on this witness list. To say what?

PETRIMOULX: Well, I mean, to say that there is not a Zenaida Gonzalez is not entirely true. There is a woman with the name Zenaida Gonzalez and finally she made an appearance on TV and is suing Casey Anthony for defamation, because she says she has no idea who Casey is, she has no idea who Caylee is, they drug her into this, it`s ruined her life and so there is a Zenaida Gonzalez and imagine that`s the person they plan on interviewing come the trial.

GRACE: She has actually filed a defamation lawsuit against Momcasey Anthony, saying it`s ruined her life and job potential. What about it, Alex Sanchez? Does she have a chance?

SANCHEZ: I think she does have a chance. Because she has put an innocent person in the public eye and basically destroyed her opportunities for work or future relationships or future babysitting opportunities or whatever she does, and she was an innocent party. She has a perfect right to sue.

GRACE: Well, there are her hands. There she is, this is Zenaida Gonzalez, suing Momcasey Anthony. What about it, Giudice?

GIUDICE: If she gets a judgment and there is any other profits for the defendant, the criminal defendant in this case, she may be able to recover, but personally, I think the judgment is worthless if it`s ever obtained.

GRACE: But my question is does she have a legal .

GUIDICE: I said yes.

GRACE: You did? OK. You were cut off at the beginning. Holly?

HUGHES: I agree, unfortunately, with the defense attorney, which I hate to do. But I do think she has a great case. I mean, she was adamant about this, she put that woman`s name out there, she kept saying it over and over, it`s a distinctive name, Nancy. She has damaged her, and I think she has got a great case.

GRACE: Also on this witness list, everybody, just released, an 80- plus witness list by the state who are all going to testify against Momcasey Anthony. We see on here, Jesse Grund. Casey Anthony`s ex-fiance. What will he have to say at trial, Natisha Lance?

LANCE: Well, one of the things that he will probably say, Nancy is one of the things he said in his statement, which is that Casey was a diabolical liar, and she was a chameleon, she would morph into something else, every time that she was around a different guy. He said for instance, he liked the Yankees, so Casey started lying the Yankees, even though she hated the Yankees, so depending on what crowd she was caught up in, could end up doing certain things that might not be within her normal character.

GRACE: I think also he will probably testify that Momcasey Anthony, said he was the biological father of little Caylee Anthony, which turned out to be false. Everybody, we have also gotten our mitts on more police interrogation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GEORGE: Casey pops in the door. I hear the garage door open, here comes Casey. And I think I startled her sort of being there, because my car was inside the garage. But she comes in, and she says, hey, dad, how are you doing, I don`t have too much time, I have to go back to work for an event. And I said, wait a second, where is Caylee, what`s going on? Oh, she is staying with Zani. I said, you know, we haven`t seen the girl in over a week, it would sure be nice to hear her little voice.

Dad, I don`t have time for it. I`ve got 10 minutes, I`ve got to get back to work.

The 16th is when I actually saw Casey and Caylee together, they were both leaving with backpacks and my daughter said she was going to work and taking Caylee to the -- to the nanny. To the babysitter. But I know it was 10 minutes to 1:00, because I was watching this Food Channel thing that I watch between noon and 1:00. So -- I`m positive. That I can for a dog gone fact.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, it`s a helpless feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the family of Ann Carver .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just like she vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Waiting for word on the 34-year-old woman`s whereabouts is stressful. Her disappearance is baffling. Ann went missing early Monday morning, when her family says she went for a jog with her pet dog, Xena. Ann`s dog returned home wearing her leash, but Ann never did. Police launched helicopters to search the neighborhood while Ann`s family tried to gather clues from Ann`s unharmed pet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think she knows something is -- that she -- I wish she could talk.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s really -- we would not expect anything like this from her at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What happened to this Arizona beauty? Out to Claudia Rivero with KTVK. Claudia, what happened?

CLAUDIA RIVERO, KTVK REPORTER: We just don`t know at this point. There are so many questions in this story, Nancy. We just don`t know at this point. But I can tell you that the Gilbert Police department is in charge of this investigation. Gilbert is about 25 to 30 miles east of Phoenix. This young lady, 34-year-old Ann Carver, lived at this home behind me with her parents. She had been living here with them for about a month. They told us that yesterday morning, about 5:00 a.m., she left to go on that walk with her dog, and that she hasn`t been seen yet. Hasn`t been seen ever since.

GRACE: Well, let me ask you this, Claudia. Was that her typical routine?

RIVERO: No. According to her parents, this was not something she did every day. She would occasionally go out for a jog early in the morning or a walk. She would take the dog. But this was not something she was accustomed to doing every single day.

GRACE: I mean, 5:00 a.m. is pretty radical to get up and go for a jog that early. Joining me right now is the brother of the missing jogger. Ann Carver. Tyler Williams is with us. Thank you for being with us. Mr. Williams, what do you know at this juncture?

TYLER WILLIAMS, ANN CARVERY`S BROTHER: You bet, Nancy. We don`t know a whole lot. Unfortunately, there`s just not really much information out there right now.

GRACE: Did she typically go out to run at 5:00 a.m.?

WILLIAMS: I wouldn`t say that she did it every day. She went out occasionally. You have to understand, in Arizona, it`s pretty hot, especially even still this time of year. And actually, early morning is one of the more popular times to get out and exercise, and, you know, it was a little early. It`s a little dark still at that time right now. But, yeah, it wouldn`t be unheard of to go out at that time of the day.

GRACE: What time does she have to be at work?

WILLIAMS: She usually is at work around -- I think 8:00. 8:00 or 9:00.

GRACE: What does she do for a living?

WILLIAMS: She`s a professional here in Phoenix.

GRACE: Doing what?

WILLIAMS: We`re just kind of leaving it at that right now, Nancy. We`re trying to really focus on Ann, and her safe return.

GRACE: Well, don`t you think that knowing more about her would help people as far as whether they had seen her in the area, in the restaurant, in the office building where she worked?

WILLIAMS: Absolutely. And, you know, we`ve got .

GRACE: So why aren`t you releasing what she did for a living?

WILLIAMS: Well, what we`re doing is we`re just really focusing on getting images of Ann out there and the pertinent information of the case, which the fact that she left to go on just a recreational walk or jog and she is no longer here. Her dog came back, obviously, as you know. But she is a wonderful, outgoing, professional person who has a lot of good friends, and is a great communicator. And she`s a fighter. We know that she`s out there somewhere, and we`re hopeful that she is going to be back with us real soon.

GRACE: To Claudia Rivero with KTVK, was she dating anyone?

RIVERO: Not that we know of, as you heard from her brother, the family is being very private about Ann, really. They won`t release any of that information. We got some information off camera from some of her friends, Nancy, but as far as we know, she was not dating anyone at this time.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police launched helicopters to search the neighborhood while Ann`s family tried to gather clues from Ann`s unharmed pet. They have no way of contacting their loved one. Ann left her cell phone and wallet at home. The family hopes somehow Ann will contact them. For now, they can do nothing but wait.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Put some of Ann`s clothes to her nose, and then I took Xena down the street, and she was sniffing around on the street, and pretty soon, she was sniffing all over everything. I think she -- she knows something is -- something is -- fishy. I wish she could talk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Mike Brooks. What do you make of it?

BROOKS: Well, Nancy, you know, a dog like that, even though some of her clothes -- you know, that`s not a trained dog. You know, right now, I don`t know. We know what was her emotional state at the time? Did she have any emotional you know, relationship wise, with any past relationships? These are all things that the investigators early on in this case need to get from the family. And I`m sure the family is cooperating. You know, they had helicopters up with the forward-looking infrared, they didn`t find any heat signatures. This area out there, Nancy, I`ve been out to Gilbert and the Chandler and Gilbert area and it`s all flat and all farm land that`s been developed into subdivisions so it`s not like she went out and fell off a cliff somewhere or that kind of thing. So it`s basically like she just disappeared in a half-hour window.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She left a note for my mom that just said, you know, gone running with Xena, I`ll be back soon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is a very beautiful, responsible young woman.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s really pretty far out of bounds. We would not expect anything like this from her at all.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, it`s a helpless feeling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the family of Ann Carver .

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just like she vanished.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Waiting for word on the 34-year-old woman`s whereabouts is stressful. Her disappearance is baffling. Ann went missing early Monday morning, when her family says she went for a jog with her pet dog, Xena. Ann`s dog returned home, wearing her leash, but Ann never did.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put some of Ann`s clothes to her nose, and then I took Xena down the street, and she was sniffing around on the street, and pretty soon, she was sniffing all over everything. I think she knows something`s fishy -- I wish she could talk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Holly Hughes, former prosecutor. What do you make of it, Holly?

HUGHES: It sounds to me like you`ve got to look at two different situations. This is a 35-year-old woman. She recently moved back into her parents` house. So again, like Mike mentioned, you want to know if this is voluntary. Did she in fact just kind of walk away? The other thing we`re looking at of course is abduction. But typically, if someone is hurt, their dog is going to stay with them, Nancy. They`re going to alert, they`re going to have blood on them. The dog is going to be close to the owner. I think what we`re looking at is a voluntary walking away like the Jennifer Wilbanks case we had a while back, the runaway bride or an abduction where somebody snatched her up and left her there with no recourse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police launched helicopters to search the neighborhood while Ann`s family tried to gather clues from Ann`s unharmed pet. They have no way of contacting their loved one. Ann left her cell phone and wallet at home. The family hopes that somehow Ann will contact them. For now, they can do nothing but wait.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The search for a 34-year-old Arizona woman heats up. With us tonight, her brother, Tyler Williams. Mr. Williams, did you tell me whether she was dating anyone? I believe I`ve got Tyler. Uh-oh. We`ve lost Tyler. We`ll get that satellite back up. Claudia Rivero, what do we know?

RIVERO: At this point you were asking if Ann Carver was dating anyone. The family would not confirm that for us, Nancy. They would not say if she`s dating anyone.

GRACE: Well, what will they say if they don`t even give us where she was working? What do we really know about the missing woman?

RIVERO: Not a whole lot. Not from what we`re getting from the family. Gilbert police, I`m sure the family has cooperated with the -- with the Police Department, but as far as what they tell us, they tell us they just basically want to focus on getting her picture out so that everyone can see who she is and see if anybody saw her when she went missing yesterday sometime between 5:00 and 6:00 in the morning.

GRACE: Mike Brooks, weigh in.

BROOKS: With the brother not saying this, we`re not getting much about her. There`s no clothing description. It was only a half an hour. So how far had she walked with his dog for the dog to come back, how far out and how far back is it? There are a lot of pieces of this puzzle that we`re not hearing.

GRACE: The tip line. 480-503-6500. Regardless of the circumstances, this woman is missing. 480-503-6500. Let`s stop and remember Marine Corporal Richard Nelson, 23, Racine, Wisconsin. Killed, Iraq. On a second tour. Loved hunting, fishing, the Green Bay Packers, dreamed of starting a family, college, and being a schoolteacher. He leaves behind parents Susan and Leonard. Five brothers, one sister. Widow and high school sweetheart, Kristen. Richard Nelson, American hero.

Thanks to our guests, but especially to you. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END

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