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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #522 9/10 - 9/12/2006  (Read 114615 times)
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cubbeegirl
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« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2006, 01:51:29 AM »

Me three.....
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"Natalee deserves to return to her country...."
    ~ Beth Holloway Twitty ~

Fly free with the angels KK!

We will never forget you sweet Caylee!
klaasend
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« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2006, 01:53:42 AM »

Goodnight all!  I need to finish some stuff up for tomorrow, then call it a night.

See you all tomorrow.
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cubbeegirl
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« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2006, 01:58:08 AM »

Night klaas, I have been lurking and reading off and on all night and now that I am caught up am going to call it a night myself. Night everyone.
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"Natalee deserves to return to her country...."
    ~ Beth Holloway Twitty ~

Fly free with the angels KK!

We will never forget you sweet Caylee!
SunFreak2
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« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2006, 02:18:02 AM »

Revisiting the Fishermen's Huts:

1) Woman attacked at Hadacurari Beach fisherman's huts week prior to Natalee's disappearance

2) J2K lied many times, first about the HI drop off, then about the Mariott dropoff, & how Joran got home from the huts

3) ALE involved in cover-up - perhaps helped by providing info about the previous attack as place to claim she disappeared from

4) Partial truth found in the lies

5) Deepak's urination spot in Malmok - huts right there at beach.
   Lighthouse, sand dunes, and rocks close-by

6) ALE doesn't think J2K at Marriott/Hadacurari Huts.

7) Fisherman saw no one, but later saw a light colored car or SUV

Cool Comment about Satish running over a girl

9) How did Joran ger behind the wheel at the pond?

HUTS AT MALMOK BEACH BELOW THE LIGHTHOUSE AS SEEN FROM THE OCEAN


ARIAL VIEW FROM OCEAN OF HUTS, BEACH, LIGHTHOUSE



SO, if Natalee is sitting behind Deepak in the car, when Deepak gets out to urinate, Natalee could jump out right after him.  Natalee takes off running. Joran jumps out to chase her.  Satish slides into driver's seat & follows in car.  Between Joran & Deepak chasing her, Natalee was probably running scared for her life. She's drugged so she's not functioning well cognitively or with physical coordination.  She either falls on her own, is pushed (tackled) by Joran, or hit by the car and goes flying into the rocks.  She's bleeding profusely from a head wound and most likely other laceratons from the rocks.  They grab her, throw her in the backseat, getting blood on the seat covers and head liner.  Deepak & Satish are freaking out so Joran the level headed psychopath drives.  They pull over at the pond to wash the blood off, check on Natalee and figure out what to do next.  Now, I think they take Natalee to Joran's, and the Kalpoes go home.

Natalee makes her calls in here....
Is this where Joran involves Guido, Koen, Sander or Freddy or does he go to Paulus?
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SunFreak2
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« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2006, 02:42:44 AM »

I'm turning out the lights's  as no udder munkey but me is here rattlin roun this cage tonight.

Shhhh....... don't wake Nemo.
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LilPuma
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« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2006, 03:07:12 AM »

I tried to read the last thread, but it's getting late and I couldn't finish.  If I had stopped reading 15 minutes earlier and come here, SunFreak wouldn't have been all alone.   Sad   But I learned a few things reading tonight - let me know if I missed anything important.   Many of you like grits; I have never tasted them.  Waffle House - ain't none around here that I know of; we have IHOP (International House of Pancakes).  Klaas rocks and wants to see Lorenzo's statement.  We all hope Larry is correct and we'll get some answers.  We all feel for Dave, who said his tape off of Skeeter's hard drive is very clear and Dana is the bestest.  Deepak is in Aruba, not Florida and his 5/31/05 statement is up.  Don't know if I'm all caught up but SunFreak took all the snacks with her when she left.  


Never doubt that a small group of concerned citizens can change the world.  Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has.  Margaret Mead
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Tylergal
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« Reply #26 on: September 10, 2006, 08:09:37 AM »

Morning, Monkeys.  Lots of theories and speculation going on and so much of it seems so plausible.  I think the truth would have put all the theories to rest, but I think SunFreak might be onto something.  Is this not when they were "driving fast?"  I think that was when they had a very seriously injured or dead Natalee on their hands.

CALL OUT TO MRS. RED:  There must be Waffle House's in the Northeast.  I saw the website of John Kerry's girlfriend and the theme song was by John Kerry, and he was singing, "I get my women at the waffle house."
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San
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« Reply #27 on: September 10, 2006, 08:36:07 AM »

Quote from: "SunFreak2"
Revisiting the Fishermen's Huts:


{{EDITED}}

SO, if Natalee is sitting behind Deepak in the car, when Deepak gets out to urinate, Natalee could jump out right after him.  Natalee takes off running. Joran jumps out to chase her.  Satish slides into driver's seat & follows in car.  Between Joran & Deepak chasing her, Natalee was probably running scared for her life. She's drugged so she's not functioning well cognitively or with physical coordination.  She either falls on her own, is pushed (tackled) by Joran, or hit by the car and goes flying into the rocks.  She's bleeding profusely from a head wound and most likely other laceratons from the rocks.  They grab her, throw her in the backseat, getting blood on the seat covers and head liner.  Deepak & Satish are freaking out so Joran the level headed psychopath drives.  They pull over at the pond to wash the blood off, check on Natalee and figure out what to do next.  Now, I think they take Natalee to Joran's, and the Kalpoes go home.

Natalee makes her calls in here....

Is this where Joran involves Guido, Koen, Sander or Freddy or does he go to Paulus?

Great theory.  This is what I think happened.  This is where Paulus made the decision not to help her.  He knows Joran is in deep sh!t and he won't help Natalee because she got the phone call off from his home.  They are all going down if they do.
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San
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« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2006, 08:37:15 AM »

GOODMORNING EVERYONE


Hi Tyler Very Happy
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justinsmama
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« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2006, 08:50:19 AM »

Hi, everyone! I see that Klaas was finally able to break away. I had a great evening last night.
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MissinNat
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« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2006, 09:08:54 AM »

Quote from: "Tylergal"
Morning, Monkeys.  Lots of theories and speculation going on and so much of it seems so plausible.  I think the truth would have put all the theories to rest, but I think SunFreak might be onto something.  Is this not when they were "driving fast?"  I think that was when they had a very seriously injured or dead Natalee on their hands.

CALL OUT TO MRS. RED:  There must be Waffle House's in the Northeast.  I saw the website of John Kerry's girlfriend and the theme song was by John Kerry, and he was singing, "I get my women at the waffle house."


Good morning Tyler, San, & Justins!  Cant' wait to see the new statements this morning.
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People might be missing or gone but we don't forget them!
justinsmama
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« Reply #31 on: September 10, 2006, 09:31:30 AM »

http://www.wafflehouse.com/
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BTgirl
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« Reply #32 on: September 10, 2006, 09:45:15 AM »

Good morning monkeys.

I really like SunFreaks's theory. It ties together a lot of the loose ends, IMO.
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Shizaru
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« Reply #33 on: September 10, 2006, 10:14:42 AM »

Any theory that has all 3 suspects present when she was seriously injured or killed is not realistic.  It's totally inconsistent with the timing of Deepaks' computer activity, the text mesages between Joran and Deepak, and the secretly recorded polis conversation, which prove beyond a reasonable doubt that least one memeber of the trio does not know what happened to her.
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Shizaru
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« Reply #34 on: September 10, 2006, 10:34:24 AM »

In addition to Natalee's initiating contact with Joran and flirting with him at the bar, after ignoring him at the casino, the comments by Deepak in his 5/31 statement, that she told Deepak to drive around, and called out some boy's name from the car, are support for my theory that she left with Joran in part based on some sort of typical teenage agenda: Trying to make another boy jealous, or impress her friends, or something like that.  It certainly looks as tho she wanted to be seen leaving with Joran.  

Of course I understand why her parents prefer to believe that she was drugged and that despite being drunk and naive, she would not have gotten in a car with strangers.  However in truth it does a disservice to the family, for those of us who are more emotionally removed and objective, to ignore the strong circumstantial evidence pointing away from that scenario, and towards an impulsive crime of opportunity, date rape gone wrong.   Even if Joran is guilty, which I have no doubt he is, getting locked into the idea that she was drugged, as part of planned abduction and rape by all three suspects, takes you down the wrong path when it comes to such things as determining the most likely crime scene and cause of death.  It has I think even prevented the family from most effectively countering the attacks on Natalee... I suspect that the reason her family has never mentioned the incident of Natalee objecting to the nudity in the DVD that Satish put on, even tho it shows how Joran has been intentionally omitting details that don't fit the nutty/slutty image of Natalee he has been trying to portray, is that it also doesn't fit the idea that Natalee was a helpless prisoner or that she thought she was in a cab.  And furthermore if she was drugged, that leaves open the theoretical possibility that she would have consented to sex with Joran alone.  I've seen many comments by people who believe that Joran is guilty or are on the fence, to the effect of  "maybe she did want Joran, but not 2K as well..."  OTOH, if the truth is that 2K were just the drivers who dropped Joran and Natalee off at the beach together,  and then Natalee died fighting against Joran alone (which is what I have concluded is the scenario most consistent with the evidence), that proves that Beth was basically right about who her daughter was, even with inhibitions lowered by intoxication, Natalee would not have consented to sex with a stranger.  So ironically the dogmatic belief on the part of most family supporters that this must have been a planned drugging/abduction/gang rape may actually be depriving Natalee of the moral credit she deserves.
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blah
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« Reply #35 on: September 10, 2006, 10:39:32 AM »

Apparently in Aruba, investigators are not allowed to ask questions.
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Buckeye
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« Reply #36 on: September 10, 2006, 11:13:03 AM »

Shizaru

I believe there was and probably still is an island passtime of hooking up with young American tourists the night before they are to leave.  I think the locals know that most have one last celebration and that it is a good time to take advantage. I do not believe Natalee had her eyes on Joran to play any silly game.  Deepak says after asking him to dance, she joined a group of her friends.  I can envision Natalee asking everyone to come on and dance (to celebrate their last night). I don't think she set out for him or she would have been hanging on him at the casino. She was not playing some teenage girl game.  She was played .  Nothing this bad might have happened before...but the game was well established.  I am not sure if you are aware that you are coming across as implying that Natalee asked for trouble.  I don't believe this and I am somewhat offended that what happened is being related to a female character flaw or lack of character.  Trusting young (naive) women don't see danger in friendliness...there are dangerous and ugly people in all age groups.  Please don't imply Natalee had anything to do with what happened.  She never saw the plan or knew she was the game. JMO
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2006, 11:13:52 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Snipped from Shiaru's post :
In addition to Natalee's initiating contact with Joran and flirting with him at the bar, after ignoring him at the casino, the comments by Deepak in his 5/31 statement, that she told Deepak to drive around, and called out some boy's name from the car, are support for my theory that she left with Joran in part based on some sort of typical teenage agenda: Trying to make another boy jealous, or impress her friends, or something like that. It certainly looks as tho she wanted to be seen leaving with Joran.
a.) Ignoring him at the casino... based on one still shot.. the others were playing cards.. she was not... Joran was more interested in the other girl.
b.) Wanted to be seen leaving with Joran ?  No one saw her " with " him.
It was all very casual. My thinking is that they went to C & C's looking for one or any of those girls. They knew it was their last night in Aruba, some of them had met Joran. He was a friendly face by the Sunday night. The object of this game Joran plays 20 x before is to get one right at closing time. Get her into the car ( parked in the back ). There are no witnesses as to who the " girl" left with, there had not been a whole lot of contact with Joran in C & C's. Therefore, if a girl was to complain to the police the next day, there would be very little to figure out who she left with. And no witnesses to help her out.
That is my opinion.
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Buckeye
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« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2006, 11:15:36 AM »

Kat

I'm with you.
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2006, 11:22:20 AM »

Ok, here I go making mountains out of molehills and splitting hairs... In my last post..

It doesn't matter WHY she got into the car. She did, and hasn't been seen since.
OR who I agree or disagree with, it is just my opinion. I have no more to go on than anyone else.
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