Lively Case Discussion #522 9/10 - 9/12/2006

[Sam]

I guess I am on ignore. I have asked the same sort of question for the last few days. It turns out I was wrong on the name of the boat. It was not Calypso. It was Octopus.

This supposedly was the one that Natalee and her friends went snorkeling/ scuba on. Klaas is going to shoot me because I do not know how to do the tiny urls. I think this one should be small enough to not blow the margins. This is the boat Florida mentioned leaving Aruba the day after Natalee disappeared. Monday am. It was said it was a planned vacation.

When I saw this website before I thought it had a picture of Captain Jethro where you could see his eyes and they were blue. This picture he has on sunglasses.

According to this site there are no Sunday cruises listed. From my memory it was supposed to have been a cruise they were on before going to the Excelsior.

Just idle speculation on my part but I have often wondered if the cab drivers story was true and Nat said she was in love with a blue eyed Dutch boy if she could have been kidding about Jethro. Much to old for her but cute. Ok heres the site.

http://www.octopusaruba.com/index.html

Not ignoring you I just don't believe the story. So what happened?  Natalee ran away with Jethro?  Jethro found Natalee on the beach and killed her?  Jethro found Natalee on the beach and sold her as a sex slave?  Seems very unlikely.  Why would Natalee be targeted in such a way?

Klaas ,

 again just speculation, but what do we really know about Jethro Gesterkamp other than he does these cruises? Does he know the vander Sloots? Since he was leaving on this planned vacation cruise anyway. The radar that doesn't work would have paid no attention to him leaving. He could be a good source for a body disposal.

[BTgirl]

Sorry if I ignored some people who spoke to me a while back.  

I left to go address a book to my friend Lalas.

How sweet.  

Well, ya know, I AM the sweet one.    

[SunFreak2]

I guess I am on ignore. I have asked the same sort of question for the last few days. It turns out I was wrong on the name of the boat. It was not Calypso. It was Octopus.

This supposedly was the one that Natalee and her friends went snorkeling/ scuba on. Klaas is going to shoot me because I do not know how to do the tiny urls. I think this one should be small enough to not blow the margins. This is the boat Florida mentioned leaving Aruba the day after Natalee disappeared. Monday am. It was said it was a planned vacation.

When I saw this website before I thought it had a picture of Captain Jethro where you could see his eyes and they were blue. This picture he has on sunglasses.

According to this site there are no Sunday cruises listed. From my memory it was supposed to have been a cruise they were on before going to the Excelsior.

Just idle speculation on my part but I have often wondered if the cab drivers story was true and Nat said she was in love with a blue eyed Dutch boy if she could have been kidding about Jethro. Much to old for her but cute. Ok heres the site.

http://www.octopusaruba.com/index.html

Interesting.  If he's been doing this gig for 25 years, that would make him somewhere in his 40's.  He's a far sight better that Paulus, but still old enough to be Natalee's father.  Somehow, I don't see an 18 yo girl like Natalee, interested in a man that age.  

If that taxi story is true, perhaps it was during the ride back from CnC's that Friday nite after the alleged groping by GVC.  Maybe it was all facetious remarks, and the cabbie didn't quite understand it all.

I'm sure there were many boats leaving Aruba that weekend.  It was an American holiday weekend and also the Soul Beach music festival.

I'm sold on J2K & P's culpability in this tragedy.  Too many lies and too much cover-up for it to be anyone else, as far as I am concerened.

[sb]

I see that over the last couple of days we have been given a few tidbits to chew on for a while... the Satish statement (he actually SPEAKS! Wonder of wonders!) the posts by Florida, the whereabouts of Joran's pre-detention statements, etc.

Some of this stuff has NEVER come out before- that Joran's first statements may have been destroyed, and that people went missing he following day.

I am just hoping that "details" which could turn the case even now, have not fallen victim to time and /or a shredder or bonfire.

[Sam]

OOPs! the radar was for the planes. But i do remember Dompig saying they knew all the boats that left the harbors.

[sb]

Also, this is the first time I have heard that JVDS and Deepak were at CC's the night before and offered a MB guy a ride back to the hotel.

DRY RUN

SMOKESCREEN

BUILD TRUST

That is more than "Hey, let's pick up some girls tonight". (JVDS said that was the object of the "spontaneous" run to CC's on Sun. evening)

[Carnut]

Ooooooh, aruba was just mentioned on the 1970 movie 'Lovers and Other Strangers'.

Someone went on their honeymoon to aruba back then.

[Lala'sMom]

I see that over the last couple of days we have been given a few tidbits to chew on for a while... the Satish statement (he actually SPEAKS! Wonder of wonders!) the posts by Florida, the whereabouts of Joran's pre-detention statements, etc.

Some of this stuff has NEVER come out before- that Joran's first statements may have been destroyed, and that people went missing he following day.

I am just hoping that "details" which could turn the case even now, have not fallen victim to time and /or a shredder or bonfire.

I vote for the bonfire.  

[klaasend]

Appearing in the Trade Register of the Chamber of Commerce and Industry in ARUBA since 8 NOVEMBER 1994 under serial number 17922.0 is the company with the trade name:
 
 
OCTOPUS
 
Business address BORANCANA 12, NOORD  
Legal form  SOLE OWNERSHIP  
Name of the company  OCTOPUS  
Date of commencement  16 AUGUST 1994  
     
   
OWNERS/PARTNERS  
 
GESTERKAMP, TOM ADRIAAN;  
Residing in  BORANCANA 12, NOORD, ARUBA  
Born in  THE NETHERLANDS, DEN HAAG on 23 SEPTEMBER 1957  
Nationality  DUTCH  
Position  OWNER  
Effective  8 NOVEMBER 1994  
Authority  FULL  
   
OBJECTIVE(S) OF THE COMPANY  
 
TO OPERATE A WATERSPORT COMPANY

[Lala'sMom]

Also, this is the first time I have heard that JVDS and Deepak were at CC's the night before and offered a MB guy a ride back to the hotel.

DRY RUN

SMOKESCREEN

BUILD TRUST

That is more than "Hey, let's pick up some girls tonight". (JVDS said that was the object of the "spontaneous" run to CC's on Sun. evening)

It's really hard to formulate a good lie when you have done this 20 times before.

[igsigs]

CHRIS LEJUEZ, ATTORNEY FOR ABRAHAM JONES: Nancy, i have seen only the statements of two of the three men. The evidence that i got, the documentation, the files that i recieved from the prosecuter's office contained only two of the statements.

My colleague has asked the prosecuter why only the two, not the one of the Dutch boy? She was told by the prosecuter, at least by the prosecuter's office, that the statement would not be relevant to the case of her suspect, her client.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html

  Was Joran's 5/31 statement "not relevant" to the case against the SGs because...he did not include them in his statement? Did Joran abandon the HI lie on 5/31?

[Sam]

Sunfreak,
I hope you read my reply to Klaas. No I do not seriously think Natalee would have truly been interested in a man over twice her age but it has happened.

I am just thinking if he had been doing these cruises for that long of a period of time he would have got to know a lot of the locals. Again a good source for a body disposal. I also think the real culprit is Joran. I am still not sure on the Kalpoes. It is possible though.

[sb]

Anyone else pondering why Joran's pre-arrest statements would be destroyed, while Deepak and Satish would be left intact. They probably had the same info, since all came from the same place (Paulus' imagination and deviant brain) Why deep-six Joran's ONLY?

[igsigs]

Anyone else pondering why Joran's pre-arrest statements would be destroyed, while Deepak and Satish would be left intact. They probably had the same info, since all came from the same place (Paulus' imagination and deviant brain) Why deep-six Joran's ONLY?

Destroyed because they were    not the same. The prosecuter's office stated that Joran did not implicate the SGs, IMO.

[Lala'sMom]

Anyone else pondering why Joran's pre-arrest statements would be destroyed, while Deepak and Satish would be left intact. They probably had the same info, since all came from the same place (Paulus' imagination and deviant brain) Why deep-six Joran's ONLY?

Well, from reading those statements you can clearly see a contrived story in the making. Maybe Joran  decided to blame the K2 and something went wrong.

[SunFreak2]

Anyone else pondering why Joran's pre-arrest statements would be destroyed, while Deepak and Satish would be left intact. They probably had the same info, since all came from the same place (Paulus' imagination and deviant brain) Why deep-six Joran's ONLY?

Why?  Because Joran is GUILTY.  The Kalpoe's are peripheral, and there's were probably saved to pin the whole thing on them.

[Sam]

The truth , the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

I suspect everyone.

[Spock]

CHRIS LEJUEZ, ATTORNEY FOR ABRAHAM JONES: Nancy, i have seen only the statements of two of the three men. The evidence that i got, the documentation, the files that i recieved from the prosecuter's office contained only two of the statements.

My colleague has asked the prosecuter why only the two, not the one of the Dutch boy? She was told by the prosecuter, at least by the prosecuter's office, that the statement would not be relevant to the case of her suspect, her client.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/09/ng.01.html

  Was Joran's 5/31 statement "not relevant" to the case against the SGs because...he did not include them in his statement? Did Joran abandon the HI lie on 5/31?

More insight on the missing 5/31 statement, thank you

[Sam]

Klaas, thank you for doing the research on Gesterkamp. So since 1994 on his ownership.

Also noticed he was born in 1957. That is the year I was married so 49 years.

[sb]

CHRIS LEJUEZ, ATTORNEY FOR ABRAHAM JONES: Nancy, i have seen only the statements of two of the three men. The evidence that I got, the documentation, the files that I recieved from the prosecutor's office contained only two of the statements.

My colleague has asked the prosecutor why only the two, not the one of the Dutch boy? She was told by the prosecuter, at least by the prosecuter's office, that the statement would not be relevant to the case of her suspect, her client.

  Was Joran's 5/31 statement "not relevant" to the case against the SGs because...he did not include them in his statement? Did Joran abandon the HI lie on 5/31?

To me, this could be a hint that the Kalpoes saw a different ending sequence, or an earlier one, than Joran did. Maybe Joran saw "other people" AND KNEW THEIR SIGNIFICANCE and deliberately left them out of his version (to diminish their importance), whereas the Kalpoes never actually saw 2 men, but were told to mention the 2 men in a certain way, to "cover" for anyone having seen Natalee being led off by 2 men immediately after being handed over by Joran.

The fabrication out of THIN AIR of 2 Security Guards has always seemed suspect to me and has NEVER made sense. Alibis and excuses almost ALWAYS begin with a kernel of truth that gets embellished and redone in the telling.

Did Joran transact an encounter with 2 men and deliberately not mention them, while telling the Kalpoes to describe them the way he wanted, to fit the cover story he and Paulus contrived?