Lively Case Discussion #522 9/10 - 9/12/2006

[IBE]

Am caught up in my reading of the thread and all are in bed!

Thank you all for the birthday wishes for 9/11 They made my day!

Klaas might as well keep the comments in that I just made before... for everyone would know it from the birthday thread anyway.

Tomorrow (actually today now) I will turn on some music like I used to and start to unclutter the clutter.

Thanks EVERYONE

Love,

"IBE"

[igsigs]

What was going down on 5/31?  Statements taken that day and subsequent statements clearly indicate knowledge of Fishermans Huts story...on 5/31.

12:30pm - Joran witness statement taken by Jacobs/Kelly. Content unknown.

4:30pm - Deepak witness statement taken by Jacobs/Kelly. On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman's Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no.

7:20pm - Satish witness statement taken by Jacobs. On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman's Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak's car.

6/9 Joran Statement. You are informing me that when i was first interviewed as a witness that i told the Detective that Natalee and me got out of the car close to/near the Fisherman's Huts and walked in the sea. To your question as to what i can state about that, i answer you that i did not say that. It also is not in my witness statement.

6/14 Joran Statement.(referencing 5/31 statement) I cannot remember that in my statement i had said that i had been at the Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. It might be possible i said this.

  Joran goes from clearly knowing that he did not mention the FHs on 6/9 to saying it is possible on 6/14. It could be that the statements were changed to favor Joran but more likely he was just lying on 6/9.

  ALE is not off the hook in either case. The FH story was presented in some credible fashion on 5/31 and thus J2K's alibi was blown, or leaking heavily. Failure to arrest and interrogate J2K further at this point is without explanation. Arresting the SGs based on these statements was criminal.

[igsigs]

Assuming that Joran did mention the FH story on 5/31...

If you are Deepak and Satish what the heck are you thinking when ALE asks you if Joran and Natalee were at the FHs? You would think the HI cover story was blown. But they stick with it, both of them. Why?

Because the FH story is a total fabrication, and reacted to as an ALE fishing expedition by K2?

How important were those phone calls made by Joran to Deepak immediately PRIOR to and DURING the making of his statement on 5/31?

[spooky112483]

Brian Clark civilian rescuer on 9/11 said "your friends are people you have experiances with" so true. that is why we are all friends here. we have been through this experiance concerning Natalee. we have all been here for Natalee and we will continue to be here for Natalee until there is justice for Natalee. But we have all become friends too in this experiance. Natalee's legacy lives on in each and every one of us that keeps speaking her name. You all are so beautiful for keeping Natalee's name alive and the case going. We will get justice for Natalee. I believe it deep inside me.
My love to all of you.

[igsigs]

And Joran's reason for calling Deepak DURING the making of his 5/31 statement? He says to ask what Natalee was wearing.

Setting aside the question of why Deepak would know more about Natalee's attire than Joran...this is Joran's statement and should not include Deepak's recollections.

Deepak was scheduled to be interviewed later anyway, get his input then.

[igsigs]

We will get justice for Natalee.

You got that right.

Well said, Spooky.

[Buckeye]

What was going down on 5/31?  Statements taken that day and subsequent statements clearly indicate knowledge of Fishermans Huts story...on 5/31.

12:30pm - Joran witness statement taken by Jacobs/Kelly. Content unknown.

4:30pm - Deepak witness statement taken by Jacobs/Kelly. On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman's Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no.

7:20pm - Satish witness statement taken by Jacobs. On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman's Huts and walked by the sea; I will answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak's car.

6/9 Joran Statement. You are informing me that when i was first interviewed as a witness that i told the Detective that Natalee and me got out of the car close to/near the Fisherman's Huts and walked in the sea. To your question as to what i can state about that, i answer you that i did not say that. It also is not in my witness statement.

6/14 Joran Statement.(referencing 5/31 statement) I cannot remember that in my statement i had said that i had been at the Fisherman's Huts with Natalee. It might be possible i said this.

  Joran goes from clearly knowing that he did not mention the FHs on 6/9 to saying it is possible on 6/14. It could be that the statements were changed to favor Joran but more likely he was just lying on 6/9.

  ALE is not off the hook in either case. The FH story was presented in some credible fashion on 5/31 and thus J2K's alibi was blown, or leaking heavily. Failure to arrest and interrogate J2K further at this point is without explanation. Arresting the SGs based on these statements was criminal.

Now you have me thinking.  Anita tells them to stay away from the Marriot.  Maybe there was a party at the Marriot (or Holiday Inn like Tyler used to think) and they actually went there.  Maybe the ALE suggested Fisherman Huts to remove crime scene from tourist hotel area. ALE tweaked Joran's first statement??

[Buckeye]

from Deepak June 29th

On your question what Joran's mom meant by telling us that we should stay away from the "Marriot Hotel", I can say the following. With this she meant that the police was monitoring that area and that we were already in trouble. So avoid the area and that it was best to head home.

Why this warning from Anita?? They were ok going into other casinos and gambling...why stay away from the Marriot?? What happened there??

[Leslie]

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

GMA message board.
http://forums.go.com/abcnews/GMA/forum?start=0&forumID=7

[blah]

deepak 6/11: The "truth" OR another cover story?

NM writes: "...Check this out dk spills the HI is a lie and the pow-wow around the pool to Mikey sometime June9-10. when jurin finds out he panics and confesses to everything during the late hrs of June 10, the confession is reported then retracted in the press from June 10 11PM-June 11 1AM, then dk give the fish.hut story June11..."


On 6/11, all of them are telling the beach drop off story.  Has everybody been brought back to the reservation OR is this a "Mexican" standoff?

Could be a little of both.

1.  Through false witness statement and perjury charges, k2 are in trouble based on their witness statements.  
2.  The false witness statements implicates k2 directly, maing them much more suspicious than jvds.
3.  jvds has not provided a "witness statement" and k2 lawyer says she has been told (by prosecution?) that jvds statement is not "relevant" and presumably not provided...
4.  See how guilty k2 looks at this stage?

But on 6/10 jvds confesses, and retracts, and on 6/11 everyone is saying the fisherman's huts and beach drop off story.

Maybe deepak said: "You are try to frame me, and I'm going to spill it all" panicking jvds, until Paulus came in as "cat wrangler" and got everyone back in the cage.  

And there it sits: a failed frame up of k2, but k2 w/ criminal behavior on record (perjury, obstruction, contempt, conspiracy) and knowledge of what happened (polis car tape) can put jvds on trial for murder.  

So no prosecution of k2. And no accurate "witness" statement (from k2) to nail the sloots.

And when is Holland going to begin working on this???

I dont think that retracted confession came from joran, deepak, or satish.  I think as part of the frame-job on the 2 security guards, the ALE  was going to say that one or both of the security guards confessed.  When the H/T's proved the guards innocent, the cover-up artists did not get the word out fast enough that the frame job was off. Thus the announcement that someone has confessed and the suspect is leading us to the body (and the later retraction)  After the police figured out they couldnt frame the 2 security guards, they knew they had to get rid of Natalee's body PERMANENTLY.  This scenario works with the timeline of arrest and release of the security guards and the jvds/k2's.  It also works with the K2/jvds being called witnesses at that time and the security guards being called suspects at that time.

Just something to think about.

[Anna]

.
I wonder what this says.  Something about Beth and tourism and a crisis.  From today's Diario:


Mike de Meza, Parlamentario AVP Turismo di Aruba den un crisis total y gobierno di Aruba ta bira cara otro banda



Siman pasa durante tratamento di e presupuesto di turismo di minister Briesen, nos a bin haya confirmacion cu enberdad turismo di Aruba a keda bay atras door di falta di un maneho efectivo y realistico.

Asina nos por a mira cu no tin un maneho cu ta asegura un crecemento real a base di un plan di mercadeo integral y agresivo y tambe un maneho cu ta “focus” riba un crecemento den turista cu un mihor entrada a base di un maneho integral y agresivo. Nos di fraccion di AVP a trece pa dilanti e varios “short comings”/ limitacionnan cu tin den e maneho y/o ehecucion di e maneho di turismo”, parlamentario di fraccion di AVP, Mike de Meza a expresa.

Igualmente el a bisa cu fraccion di AVP a trece dilanti cu net na e momento aki Aruba tin cu promove mas intensivo y efectivo, pero cu por a tuma nota cu minister Briesen ta corta den e prosupuesto di turismo. E minister a corta especialmente den e parti di promocion.

A sali na cla for di un raport di Centrale Accountant Dienst CAD cu ora a repasa p.e. den e raportahe financiero anual di 2003 a yega na e conlusion cu e administracion na ATA ta masha deficiente.

No tin un bon maneho riba e oficinanan internacional di ATA. Specificamente riba tereno di personal ta laga hopi di desea. Tin hende crucial a bay cu pension y a dura casi 2 aña pa remplasanan, tin trahadornan cu ta cu AO casi of mas cu un aña caba, tin mas ehecutivonan cu ta bay e aña aki.

Pero no tin un plan con ta sigui caminda esaki lo afecta e trabaonan. A sera oficina den cierto pais pasobra tabatin malversacion di placa y awor no tin ni representacion mas den tal pais!

“Imaginabo cu hasta nos por conclui cu nos PR (Public Relation) ta un “open book” pa esnan cu a declara publicamente cu lo haci todo por todo pa causa Aruba daño.

Por ehempel nos di AVP a prunta minister Briesen si ta berdad cu cuña (casa di e ruman homber) di Beth Twitty (mama di Nathalee Holloway) ta un partner di e compania cu ta encarga cu e PR pa ATA (lesa : Aruba su turismo)?
Nos tambe a puntra minister Briesen si e persona aki ainda ta encarga cu e PR pa Aruba su turismo, paso informacion disponibel ta bisa cu e persona aki tabata den hasta e ultimo reunion strategico pa Aruba su maneho riba turismo y con pa contraresta e problema cu e caso di Natalee Holloway a causa nos turismo”, de Meza a duna di conoce.
El a agrega cu contesta di minister Briesen tabata cu 1. minister no tin informacion “personal” di e señora aki y 2. cu e señora aki segun e ta kere no ta traha mas cu Aruba.

“Wel, pueblo tur dos contesta ta bisa nos cuant’or tin den maneho di turismo bao di minister Briesen. Pueblo mes huzga con nos turismo, pilar number 1 di nos economia, ta worde maneha”, segun Mike de Meza.

Por ultimo Mike de Meza a bisa cu a bin ta tuma nota cu tur e raportnan cu ta worde traha pa e e industria di turismo di Aruba, local of internacional, ta trece e preocupacion mas grandi dilanti: criminalidad ta aumentando y no tin un maneho corecto pa cu husticia en general!! Pa cuanto tempo mas e mal maneho aki mester continua. Dios bendiciona nos dushi pais Aruba.

http://www.diario-aruba.com/2006/9/12/

[yapperz1]

Morning Monkeys
Found this interesting...tourism isn't down in Aruba huh????

http://www.amigoe.com/english/
<snip>
During the handling of the 2006 Tourism-budget, Lampe thought it remarkable that minister Edison Briesen (MEP) of Tourism and Transport doesn’t want to face the reality of the decreasing tourism figures.  Lampe also criticized the MEP that during the debate had mentioned that the decline was little.  “According to the Central Bank, the tourism in Aruba has not been so bad since 1986.  Anybody that denies that doesn’t want to face the facts.   I conclude that all of the MEP suffers from the collective denial syndrome”, said Lampe

[Anna]

Yapperz,

I also found this in the Dutch version with the number of 100,000.  I think that may be the number of tourists down so far or from a year ago.  To get the rest of the article, it wanted me to register so I just got the opening part:

Aruba
AVP wil meer investeringen in toerisme
Abonnee Artikel
ORANJESTAD — “We zijn zeer teleurgesteld over de manier waarop kabinet Oduber de crisissituatie in het toerisme bagatelliseert. Het toerisme uit de Verenigde Staten is afgenomen en in het afgelopen jaar kwamen er circa 100.000 toeristen minder. Zorgwekkend is dat studies van Aruba Tourism Authority (ATA) laten zien dat het imago van Aruba in het buitenland behoorlijk aangetast is.” Dat is de mening van Mike Eman, fractieleider van AVP, na het drie dagen durende debat in de Staten over de begroting van het ministerie van Toerisme en Transport.
11 Sep, 2006, 17:22 (GMT -04:00)
http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/cat_index_3.php


.

[yapperz1]

Anna, PearlinUSA posted this at BFN yesterday. Think it may be a translation of that part of the article:

www.amigoe.com dutch version ..  Abonnee Artikel today

Subscriber Article ORANJESTAD -

 we have been very disappointed concerning the way cabinet Oduber minimises the crisis situation in tourism. Tourism from the United States has decreased and in last year tourists there approximately 100,000 less came.

 Worrisom is that studies of Aruba Tourism show Authority (ATA) that the image of Aruba is considerably damaged abroad. That is the opinion of Mike Eman, fractieleider of AVP, after three days debate lasting in the states concerning the budget of the ministry of tourism and transport.

11 Sep, 2006, 17.22 (GMT -04:00)

[Anna]

.
Thanks, Yapperz.  Yes, that looks right.  

Also at BFN is a statement by Satish that I think is new.  Believe it is June 11.  I wonder if Klaas is working on that one now.  It is long and I don't want to take away from her work if she is by bringing it here.

These statements are all beginning to run together in my mind.

Need more coffee. . . . . .

[Anna]

I wish Klaas were here.  Guess it is only 5 a.m. in California.  She is so much better at photos than I am but I could swear I see Steve Croes second from the right in this one.

What's wrong with his eyes??   If it is him, he looks dreadful.

http://tinyurl.com/m9nhx

[Spock]

Has everyone else noticed that Deepak declared that Steve Croes was at C&C the same time Joran, Satish, Deepak and Natalee were? Doesn't it make more sense now that Steve acted as a witness to the security guard drop-off lie.

[klaasend]

I wish Klaas were here.  Guess it is only 5 a.m. in California.  She is so much better at photos than I am but I could swear I see Steve Croes second from the right in this one.

What's wrong with his eyes??   If it is him, he looks dreadful.

http://tinyurl.com/m9nhx

Hi Anna - I am here for a little while then I'm leaving for my teaching for for a few hours.  Your link above didn't work.  Why don't you post the long url and I'll take a look.  FYI, Steve C does look terrible these days.

[yapperz1]

That pic is definitely Steve Croes. Man does he looked fried!!!

[Anna]

.
Spock,
I read it but it did not connect.   So Steve would know exactly who "the girl" would be most likely.  Very odd behavior on his part.

Do you think that is him in the photo I just posted the link for above?  I do but will defer to Klaas' better eye in that regard.

.