Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/15/08

[SS]

Caps - where the party-goers aware that night that Natalee had died?  If so, why weren't they with Joran after he dumped her in the pond?  Why was he walking alone?  We had decided that Paulass was probably one of the party-goers.  Why would he be picking Urine up in his red jeep as he was walking away from the pond?  Is it possible that Paulass wasn't at the video party?  What happened to the other party-goers by 4 AM?  Were the Kalpoes gone by that time?  How about Freddy, Steve Croes, Renfro, Guido, and Chemaly?  Where were they?

Well this case is is not so complicates as the lenght the authorities went to cover it up..

Any one that understand flowcharts and I have made one up of this case you can see how a lie that do not follow natural human logic need to be cover up...and so the more twist in the storie, the more plausible nd believable it will became and this is a special thechnique that anyone who have study human processes can see that some of wjat was said can not be true and so do not follows natural logic.

now like a movie script.....there are a mayor role player and supporting actors and doubles...

in the case of natalee the mayor role players are Joran, Paules, Ben Vonking...Supporting actors, the kalpoes

now to confuse the case, they mixed it with a drug bust going down.

separating the layers of confusion and lies was the mayor task.

Can we see the flow chart or is our friend Regnad hanging around? 

YEP, but I will post soon.... now we are still on ricepaper...and my service has been stop just today....strange. can get on the net...now on WIFI.

Caps - you need to know that we have been very worried about your safety and we were concerned about DTKM and Mr. Enoz.

[texasmom]

Well this case is is not so complicates as the lenght the authorities went to cover it up..

Any one that understand flowcharts and I have made one up of this case you can see how a lie that do not follow natural human logic need to be cover up...and so the more twist in the storie, the more plausible nd believable it will became and this is a special thechnique that anyone who have study human processes can see that some of wjat was said can not be true and so do not follows natural logic.

now like a movie script.....there are a mayor role player and supporting actors and doubles...

in the case of natalee the mayor role players are Joran, Paules, Ben Vonking...Supporting actors, the kalpoes

now to confuse the case, they mixed it with a drug bust going down.

separating the layers of confusion and lies was the mayor task.

Can we see the flow chart or is our friend Regnad hanging around? 

YEP, but I will post soon.... now we are still on ricepaper...and my service has been stop just today....strange. can get on the net...now on WIFI.

  That's not good.  Please be very careful!

[SS]

Hi TM - isn't this just great!

[CapsLockWizard]

I hope that none of you bought Patrick's book because the posters over in Shango warned you not to do it.  "They did not build sandcastles"

I didn't buy the book, for some reason I just didn't buy the "secret" confession.  Why? was he involved in helping Joran?

there is a saying that we all use when we buy lotto..."If you help me win, and get rich, I will have someting also for you".

I will write a book, and we will smoke some pot and then we will build this believable storie and publish it in a book...and get paid in millions and you go to thailand and when money come in we will party some more and then we will lie a bit more in part -2 and make them believe some more..We are good friends from a long time...you are (Joran) a Maton "Murderer" and I am the trickster (Scareface).

[SS]

I hope that none of you bought Patrick's book because the posters over in Shango warned you not to do it.  "They did not build sandcastles"

I didn't buy the book, for some reason I just didn't buy the "secret" confession.  Why? was he involved in helping Joran?

there is a saying that we all use when we buy lotto..."If you help me win, and get rich, I will have someting also for you".

I will write a book, and we will smoke some pot and then we will build this believable storie and publish it in a book...and get paid in millions and you go to thailand and when money come in we will party some more and then we will lie a bit more in part -2 and make them believe some more..We are good friends from a long time...you are (Joran) a Maton "Murderer" and I am the trickster (Scareface).

And most people will still not believe that Urine and Patrick knew each other from years before through Patrick's brother's watersports company.

[texasmom]

Hi TM - isn't this just great!

Hi SS!
Yes, it is!  I'm very excited and very hopeful!  

[johan555]

Here are the pond -Matt app & the Lions DEN

can you Rob or Caps give a mark were the lions den and the matt complex is ?



zoom

[dennisintn]

Capslock is awesome!  He's the MAN! 

I will second that and also everyone of the posters here!  I just hope Nat's case is solved soon.  It's been too long especially with all of the cover ups and corruption etc.  I usually read here(for years) but don't post.  I am very excited about this.

I'm excited too!

I really can't get too excited over this.  How many times have we been down this path during these last years.  It is one thing to have "reports" and "evidence" uncovered.  It is quite another to expect the that judicial system in Aruba is about to accept anything at this point.  Not to be too negative about this, but I doubt the "judges" would even act on an actual video tape of the crime.  The judicial system is corrupt and will not act to resolve this issue.

i agree with you on that, greatowl.  if mos has had the information he's needed to prosecute, i think he's been waiting for the change of judges before he proceeds.
dennisintn

I do hope I am wrong.....

[SS]

Johan - I can't tell on your map.  Check Rob's maps around pages 4- 6 on this thread.  The pond is behind a Chinese restaurant and a grocery store with a large parking lot.  Diagonally across the street is the VIP Lounge.  The Matty Apartments (6 apartments) appear as a red building next to and slightly behind the VIP Lounge.  Behind these two buildings is a large junk yard with old cars. There was a large star on one of the buildings.  "Follow the star"  The "road that was not paved with gold" is the dirt driveway that is between the VIP and the apartments.  The apartments can't be seen from the street.

[Blue Moon]

I hope that none of you bought Patrick's book because the posters over in Shango warned you not to do it.  "They did not build sandcastles"

I didn't buy the book, for some reason I just didn't buy the "secret" confession.  Why? was he involved in helping Joran?

there is a saying that we all use when we buy lotto..."If you help me win, and get rich, I will have someting also for you".

I will write a book, and we will smoke some pot and then we will build this believable storie and publish it in a book...and get paid in millions and you go to thailand and when money come in we will party some more and then we will lie a bit more in part -2 and make them believe some more..We are good friends from a long time...you are (Joran) a Maton "Murderer" and I am the trickster (Scareface).

And most people will still not believe that Urine and Patrick knew each other from years before through Patrick's brother's watersports company.

I guess I really need to go to Shango thread and start reading.  It always blew my mind trying to follow along.  But you all are saying so much more than I had been aware of.

[Rob]

[WhiskeyGirl]

IIRC, didn't Aruba give the investigators a hard time because they didn't have work permits? 

Did ALE ever door knocking in the area of the beach or pond?

I've always wondered who came up with those road-blocks.  All the family of Natalee Holloway wanted was to find their daughter.  It always seemed odd to me that no one wanted to canvass the neighborhood, or at least have the American's ask around.

I wonder if more witnesses will come forward?  Maybe the woman who saw four sweaty boys with shovel?

[SS]

OK Johan, I think I can help you. At the top of your pond there is a red building on the left.  That is the Chinese restaurant.  At the top right, the white building is the grocery store.  At about 2 o'clock from the grocery store you will see a clump of what looks like trees.  The driveway and the apartments are behind this.  The apartments are in the long thin building.

[WhiskeyGirl]

Johan - I can't tell on your map.  Check Rob's maps around pages 4- 6 on this thread.  The pond is behind a Chinese restaurant and a grocery store with a large parking lot.  Diagonally across the street is the VIP Lounge.  The Matty Apartments (6 apartments) appear as a red building next to and slightly behind the VIP Lounge.  Behind these two buildings is a large junk yard with old cars. There was a large star on one of the buildings.  "Follow the star"  The "road that was not paved with gold" is the dirt driveway that is between the VIP and the apartments.  The apartments can't be seen from the street.

Wasn't there a witness/suspect/person of interest PV some where that tells of JVDS and others having Chinese food one of the nights after Natalee disappeared?

[wreck]

I saw the news flash on the Caylee thread right before I left work. I am just now able to sit down and post!!


WOW!!!

 

[Rob]

[Blue Moon]

Is the Matty aptmts where they took Natalee?  What is the Lion's Den have to do with this?

[klaasend]

I saw the news flash on the Caylee thread right before I left work. I am just now able to sit down and post!!


WOW!!!

 

I know, big wow!

[wreck]

I saw the news flash on the Caylee thread right before I left work. I am just now able to sit down and post!!


WOW!!!

 

I know, big wow!

I'm still catching up -- what is the speculation of the "additional info" of the witness??

[SS]

Blue Moom - the Lions Den/VIP lLounge are owned by Kalpoe relatives.  The Matty Apartments are also in the complex.  From what we learned, Natalee was taken to one of the apartments where there was a video porn party planned.  Supposedly this was not the first time that this had been done.  Joran and the Pimps were responsible for securing the female - usually a tourist on her last night in Aruba.  There were also some adults there that you would recognize.  The entire group was involved in the production of porn videos using these tourist victims.  There was also a poker game going on.  Something happened and Natalee was killed.  According to Shango/Simian there was a fight between Urine and a "cool and crazy guy" that Natalee had met earlier in the week.  This person is the "5th suspect".  We aren't sure who this was and we're still talking about it over in Shango - LVR, Paulass, Freddy, Guido ????  After Natalee died she was supposedly dumped in the pond across the street, but later moved to possibly the Masonic Lodge cemetery.  TES is in Aruba right now to deal with all of this.  When TES was in Aruba last winter, they scanned the entire pond based on a "credible tip".  We have pictures of them scanning the pond in Shango.  According to OE, from what they found on their scans, it was determined that the pond needed to be drained for further identification of what TES found.  By March, Chavez started acting up  and there was a big strike on Aruba, so draining the pond was postponed.  TES suddenly packed up Persistence and left.  Eventually the pond was drained and 40-50 Dutch forensics people arrived from Holland with dogs.  Pictures of the drained pond are in Shango and also the picture that Rob has been posting on this thread tonight.  ALE would never confirm if anything had been found.  This is about the time that all of the excitement about the white sneaker started.   Meanwhile, a witness came forward who lives in the area.  That is the story that broke in Diario today.  The story is much more complicated than just this and the details are over in Shango.  We worked on it for several months.