Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/15/08

[johan555]

Vocking :broken eye socket, cheekbone and skull

Ben
Now is my next question :::

when started Paul to become a Judge in Training ?
Ben Vocking  told that Paul vd Sloot helped him in the case  against Edoardo Mathew .
Did Paul this as a judge  or as a lawyer ? what was he at that time ? i think Judge in training

About this case

The following facts are taken from the Chamber Judgment or Opinion of the European Court of Human Rights

On October 9, 2001 Mathew was arrested on Aruba on a charge of inflicting grievous bodily harm. From October 2001 until the end of April 2004 he was detained on remand in the Aruba Correctional Institution (Korrektie Inrichting Aruba), (KIA). During most of that time, he was in solitary confinement.

On November 29, 2001 an incident took place in which the acting KIA governor was very seriously injured (broken eye socket, cheekbone and skull) and for which the applicant was subsequently convicted of inflicting serious bodily harm.

Following the incident, the Mathew was placed in solitary confinement for 35 days. Thereafter, on January 4, 2002, a special detention regime was imposed on him, aimed at keeping him away from the other prisoners. He was not allowed to leave his cell without handcuffs around his wrists and fetters around his ankles (the use of fetters was discontinued after a certain time). Contact with the outside world was also limited. On two other occasions after the Mathew had, among other things, assaulted prison staff, he was also denied visits or use of the telephone for 28 days.

From the time when the Mathew was first detained there until some time between August and October 2002, there was a large opening in the roof of the applicant’s cell through which the rain penetrated. The cell was located on the second and top floor of the KIA prison building and exposed its occupant to the heat of the sun. Iced water was provided; there was, however, no air conditioner or other cooling system. There were no lifts.

As from June 2002 the applicant was found to be suffering from a serious spinal condition. Aruba’s only neurosurgeon found that the applicant had a lumbar discal hernia and considered surgery to be appropriate. He asked for the applicant to be examined by another neurosurgeon for a second opinion, which did not happen. The applicant was provided with a wheelchair on August 14 2002, but permission to use it was withdrawn following an incident on 13 February 2003, when he ripped a piece of metal off his wheelchair and used it as a weapon against prison staff.

On February 19 2003 Mathew began court proceedings requesting more comfortable detention conditions. Among other things, he complained that his cell was unsanitary and that he was made to walk down two flights of stairs to meet visitors, take outside exercise or go to hospital, and that he was denied physiotherapy and a wheelchair. A local court ordered the prison to review the need for continuing the special regime at regular intervals.

On April 14 2003 Mathew was found guilty as charged on appeal by the Joint Court of Justice for the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, which stated that it had imposed a considerably lower sentence (three years and six months instead of five years) than would normally be justified by the applicant’s crimes, in view of the unusual severity of the regime imposed on him while on remand.

Mathew received physiotherapy in hospital from 23 May until 13 June 2003. It was intended he should continue to receive physiotherapy as an outpatient. However, his physiotherapy sessions were discontinued. The applicant maintained that his physical condition prevented him from walking from his cell to the vehicle which was to take him to hospital and from sitting up straight in the vehicle.

Mathew would normally have been eligible for early release on 27 January 2004. This, however, was refused him on grounds related to his behaviour in prison.

A physiotherapist who examined Mathew on 6 March 2004 described him as able, despite going nine months without treatment, to walk a distance of at least 90 meters and carry out complex physical actions such as twisting his body and walking stairs.

Mathew was released by order of the Minister of Justice of Aruba on April 30 2004 (by which time his application before the European Court of Human Rights had been communicated to the Netherlands Government).

The Court considered photographs and assessed the facts in detail in its Chamber judgment.

On September 29, 2005, the Court held, unanimously, that there had been a violation of Article 3 (prohibition of inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment) of the European Convention on Human Rights, in that:

    * the applicant was detained in solitary confinement for an excessive and unnecessarily protracted period;

    * he was detained for at least seven months in a cell which failed to provide adequate protection against the weather and the climate; and,

    * he had had to endure unnecessary and avoidable physical suffering in order to gain access to outdoor exercise and fresh air.

Under Article 41 (just satisfaction) of the Convention, the Court awarded the applicant 10,000 euros (EUR) for non-pecuniary damage and EUR 3,000 for costs and expenses

[Buckeye]

The TES lead might be the Monserat area.  Did a witness emerge?

http://www.diario-aruba.com/200809104189/Local/Pana-di-Joran-tabata-tur-na-lodo-canando-banda-di-dam-di-Monserat...Prome-parti-di-revelacion-nobo-di-testigo.html

[MumInOhio]

I think "alternate" member is while he was in training...if all went well  he would have become a "member" after the training period.  JMO

http://tinyurl.com/6bmcjr

Maybe this one is easier to read..

Johan...It appears that Paulus took up his alternate position on 1/1/2003. So yes he would have been a Judge in training for some of the time Mathre had problems and working for the AG's office the rest of the time.

Lots of confusion over Paulus' timeline and exactly what he was employed doing and by whom!

5 year contract with the Aruban government then 8 years as Private Secretary to the AG...different appointed AGs, upheaval of governments, coalition of governments and changes of governments. Hmmmm and through all that Paulus kept his job...

Was the 5 year Lands Advocate job the one with contracts?  I don't think so reading back on Easy and Kermit's discussions. One shouldn't need to make their job history that confusing.

Still trying to sort through this but it appears to me that both his positions were in the same building KABNAA.

Paulus positions whatever they really were cover an interesting time period and some interesting revelations by the US government...

[SS]

The TES lead might be the Monserat area.  Did a witness emerge?

http://www.diario-aruba.com/200809104189/Local/Pana-di-Joran-tabata-tur-na-lodo-canando-banda-di-dam-di-Monserat...Prome-parti-di-revelacion-nobo-di-testigo.html

We were told last Spring that there is a witness.  It's over in the Shango thread somewhere.  The witness supposedly saw Urine walking odwn the street covered with mud.  His presense woke the dogs that belonged to the family.

[MumInOhio]

The TES lead might be the Monserat area.  Did a witness emerge?

http://www.diario-aruba.com/200809104189/Local/Pana-di-Joran-tabata-tur-na-lodo-canando-banda-di-dam-di-Monserat...Prome-parti-di-revelacion-nobo-di-testigo.html

Buckeye...pretty sure that is the one that TES went over before they left Aruba last time with the side scanner...and no idea what that article says...LOL

[SS]

Good Morning, Mum.   

[Buckeye]

Well, it's hit today's Diario and has been posted at RU.  Maybe Sandy can translate.

[MumInOhio]

The TES lead might be the Monserat area.  Did a witness emerge?

http://www.diario-aruba.com/200809104189/Local/Pana-di-Joran-tabata-tur-na-lodo-canando-banda-di-dam-di-Monserat...Prome-parti-di-revelacion-nobo-di-testigo.html

Rush translation...LOL

cloths of joran was all at mud canando near of dam of monserat...prome part of revelacion new of witness... wednesday, 10 september 2008 00:00 local oranjestad (aan): one witness clave, y cu owing to stay prove now cu the is papiando berdad, is treciendo claridad so wait for in the caso of desaparicion of natalee holloway at half 2005 at aruba. at last after of was follow the acontecimento new here of the witness for several month end, now daily paper owing to achieve the resultadonan back for present the first part of the declaracion of the witness here.inmediatamente daily paper have of go back remarca, cu the first part here is in power of fiscal mr. mos at aruba, but do not conoci kico exactly past owing to haci cune.e second part cu will aparece soon in daily paper, is contene informacion cu ministerio publico of aruba not know of dje (ainda), simplemente because cada trip cu the witness is give declaracion, the is haye poni in one angle cu the temor of bay achieve represaya. the witness here, one man naci at aruba, owing to bay till merca where past owing to happen test of polygrafo, y owing to stay demostra cu the is papiando berdad.testigo tana palabratabata the night of 30 of half 2005, cu the was sleep in camber at home, hour cu past owing to arouse debi at cantidad of cacho cu was blaf for of control, y on one tone much alarming. the witness owing to open eye, become look at holoshi y see cu is 4:05 owing to.m.scuchando the direccion of blafmento, past owing to bay of trip in sitting-room of his cas y observa kico the cachonan was blaf so tanto y cu urgencia. bao of one tree of luz of caya, past owing to see one person is march in direccion of his cas. the was come for of direccion of veld of nacional close of the dam of monserat, bayendo pabao direccion of hotelnan. the person at leg owing to happen bao of the next luz of caya, y the witness owing to see the person here good y claramente. the was one person notablemente high, delega, masculino, color of cuero cla, cabey dark cortico, one person relativamente young y this was seems of is one dutch. also past owing to look at the form (profil) of cabez y one near of his cara.e cloths cu the had dress is one flanel color cora y one carson largo color cla.riparable is cu the person here was march is cu one near of leg is ‘limp', y here the witness owing to see cu the was miss one leg of zapato or keds. the is calcula cu at the form cu the was march of near, the was miss his zapato or keds of his leg right.algo cu past owing to notice also, is cu the person on caya was breathe extremadamente much pisa because; sifuera the was core duro for enough rato. his pecho was subi-baha very rapido self. cloths tabatamuha also the witness owing to follow declara (y prove via test cu the is papiando berdad), cu the person on caya had cloths wet, y the had one ray much notable of water of mud cu was arrive till on his pecho, because; 5 centimeter on his pecho, more or younger on his flanel.e ray on his flanel was show claramente, y of the ray of water of mud come abao the was completamente wet.prome the witness owing to think cu the person here owing to end of fight, y owing to leave core for her not achieve more golpi. the near of his cara cu the witness can owing to see, was show sinembargo of is pound of golpi or blood.pero debi cu the person here not owing to look at none rato self his slow, for check if acaso have person is siguie, y is follow march cabez abao y cu one velocidad enough acelera, the witness owing to think cu is another cos the owing to haci but not bringamento. the person owing to follow happen fast his cas, y follow march bay, till hour cu past owing to lose for of view, y none rato the person here owing to look at at high or see behind, y owing to follow march in direccion of hotelnan.tur the cos here owing to happen in one time of because; 1 minuut.despues cu past owing to lose the person here of view, the witness owing to stay sit in sitting-room for because; 15 till 20 minuut first cu past owing to bay sleep back.(nota of diario: here have algo cu owing to socede again, but the witness not owing to divulga at autoridad local, but if at investigadornan mericano. in proximo edicion daily paper will relata kico past owing to see after, y cu the test polygrafo owing to demostra cu ey also the is talk berdad). the witness owing to arise morning y owing to bay trabao normal, y for near of 11:00 owing to.m. the news owing to happen via radio cu past owing to achieve know cu have one tourist teenager cu not owing to arrive his hotel back. at once past owing to corda on thing past owing to see one pair of hour first.despues cu the news owing to become more big, y cu they owing to cuminza detene y encarcela hendenan robez, the witness owing to feel his self descurasha for bay fast, y also after cu past owing to look at the young joran van der sloot in news, past owing to reconoce the person here at once.joran is the person cu past owing to see is march cu cloths wet fast his cas the madruga ey. but hour cu past owing to hear cu the father of joran is advocate y studiando for become huez, y cu the is amigo intimo of boss high of police, etc., this owing to end of descurashe totalmente. the will not feel his self safe if the bay fast the hour because; witness.pa colmo, sabiendo cu the sistema huridico hudicial of aruba is totalmente in hand of dutch, past owing to haye forza at stay keto. this owing to last because; 2 year y pico, till at end of 2007 hour cu at last past owing to cuminza feel cu the have of revela thing past owing to see, y so owing to cuminza leave poco-poco fast, for splica kico past owing to see at his cas, cu is stay because; 500 metre far for of the dam of monserat at north. the witness here owing to achieve advocate also for can defende, because the caso big here is implica automaticamente cu even testigonan have of is good prepara for achieve defence hudicial, y also conseho. all the time, the mericanonan cu permission of police, owing to haci one test of sonar at dam of monserat y esey owing to socede at comienzo of the year here, hour cu the level of water was enough abao eyden. daily paper owing to achieve know, cu the test here, owing to señala cu the sonar owing to descubri "15 obheto" in suelo, y cu they can owing to defini only 3 of they.pero in another articulo, daily paper is show con fiscal mr. mos owing to as neither haci caso of this, y more bien owing to deal of descredita the witness, cu owing to ponebo pensa: of berdad they wanted defende van der sloot cueste thing cueste? come across

[MumInOhio]

Good Morning, Mum.   

Morning SS...thought the one Caps mentioned was sitting on his porch...

[SS]

The TES lead might be the Monserat area.  Did a witness emerge?

http://www.diario-aruba.com/200809104189/Local/Pana-di-Joran-tabata-tur-na-lodo-canando-banda-di-dam-di-Monserat...Prome-parti-di-revelacion-nobo-di-testigo.html

Buckeye...pretty sure that is the one that TES went over before they left Aruba last time with the side scanner...and no idea what that article says...LOL

You are correct, Mum.  TES did do a scan of the pond in Manserat.  It was late February or early March and the photographs are in Shango.  According to OE, the pond was drained based on some things that TES had seen and they determined that the pond had to be drained in order to investigate.  Draining the pond was delayed because of the Chavez problem and the strike on Aruba.  The Dutch Coast Guard ship took the mysterious contents of the lobster cage and TES left the island.  We have photographs of the pond and those huge drainage pipes after everything was drained.  Supposedly a Dutch team of 40 - 50 people with dogs came in to investigate the pond and the area around the pond.  Nothing was ever released about the results, which is typical ALE.  A witness was also identified who claims to have seen Urine walking down the street that night, covered with mud.  There were some hints that something was found in the pond, but that's all we ever heard.  We later heard that Natalee could have been put in the Masonic Lodge cemetery.

[MumInOhio]

SS...I will check my sitemeter history but I am sure that on Monday some-one was looking up something I think could have been related to this...from Aruba of course...

[SS]

SS...I will check my sitemeter history but I am sure that on Monday some-one was looking up something I think could have been related to this...from Aruba of course...

Mum, I have to go, but do you remember when this all happened?  It's in Shango, but I have no idea where at this point.  We were definitely told that a witness saw Urine walking down the street covered with mud and that the dogs were going crazy.

[MumInOhio]

SS...I will check my sitemeter history but I am sure that on Monday some-one was looking up something I think could have been related to this...from Aruba of course...

Mum, I have to go, but do you remember when this all happened?  It's in Shango, but I have no idea where at this point.  We were definitely told that a witness saw Urine walking down the street covered with mud and that the dogs were going crazy.

SS...I will check my Index and post the link to the discussions...

[Buckeye]

Posted May 5 2008

Jonathan45 at scrux 


   
PostPosted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:45 pm    Post subject:   
The real update

On my desk lies a 'human' shin-bone in a box, a bone found in a pond not far from Montanja 19 by a friend during his visit to Aruba last month.
I don't know if if it's one of Natalees shin-bones, but it is a human bone.

To solve the missing of Natalee Holloway the ALE needs only a cadaver dog.

Today I will seal my lips too.

http://www.scrux.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=611&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=225


Caps reply:

How strange.... Today in matter of fact, the ALE got this special dog that is trained to sniff drugs, money and human remains.

it has arrived yesterday.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2787.msg379230

 

[MumInOhio]

Not from Shango...still looking

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2582.msg344607#msg344607


Re: Natalee Case Discussion #726 2/7
« Reply #282 on: February 08, 2008, 01:59:38 AM »Caps

I know,


Tip line no good, He need to open his mbox


a Midnight aowl (SHOCO) saw him from his veranda at 3:44 passing in fornt of his house....All in muddy from the wate down....

Have new google earth.

[johan555]

Monserat area is in the northern part
but ............ were exactly ?????????

[MumInOhio]

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #726 2/7  on: February 08, 2008, 12:14:38 AM 
Klassend: Lala:

I know now 100% sure that they never went to the beach.

and 100% sure what XTC DNA stands for.

My location is now 100% bullet proef.

"HE WAS WALKING FACE DOWN IN THE SECONDARY ROAD, WASTLINE DOWN DIRTY OF MUD AND WAS MISSING THE RIGHT FOOD SHOE"

He never went to the beach.

CAPS

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2582.msg344553#msg344553

[Buckeye]

Monserat area is in the northern part
but ............ were exactly ?????????

johan

I can't read pap, but the picture in Diario is of the Monserat pond/dam area, by the soccer fields, that we discussed before.  Remember...the chinese restaurant nearby...and they drained or the damed area dried out....

[MumInOhio]

Monserat area is in the northern part
but ............ were exactly ?????????

Johan...Rob posted maps of it before here and Caps posted the pics of the big pipes...

A couple more hints in Shango about the witness and his porch and Joran with one shoe...think I may have found the discussions

[MumInOhio]

The discussions I found were about the search with the boat...Caps may have discussed it further after that...

Not sure if Diario is saying part 1 and 2?

I thought the Dutch had sent people to search that pond as well...If that is the case it would not make sense for that to be the reason TES is going there?

Need to try and reread Diario and see is there is any new info in it???