Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/15/08

[Lala'sMom]

Didn't Mos say that in order to prosecute the case he would
need a witness or a confession?

Hey, Hans Mos, you have had both a confession and a witness.
When you gonna prosecute?

Well to Mos they don't jive...the confession was on the beach and the witness saw him at a pond. So that is Mos excuse this time, I suppose.

So pick one.  He said either or.
Supposedly there is yet another confession out there that has not been made public.
Joran made another confession since he has been in Thailand.

Well, I will say this...if the reason they denied Paulus compensation was due to someone seeing Paulus at the ATM in the jeep and this witness says he saw him too..then that tome is corroborating evidence.  But Mos won't see it that way...as far as he is concerned Joran said he was on the beach and she died accidentally that night.

Never thought of that, very good point. Corroboration.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.
Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.
The operator was definitley not soundly sleeping in his bed as reported.
He did not seem to remember a phone call in the middle of the night.

Passenger was definitely not home looking at porn @315am.
Passenger did not ride home in a Honda.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.

Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.

- - - -

VDS auto seen by neighbor, arriving home around 4am.

Two things we know about that night from Joran's babbling to Patrick:
1.  Joran was there when Natalee died.
2.  Joran had help . . . "Daury."

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

mo

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

Do we have any verification of this...a neighbor seeing them...I mean really certain that they saw Paulus??? 

[KYcat]

Didn't Mos say that in order to prosecute the case he would
need a witness or a confession?

Hey, Hans Mos, you have had both a confession and a witness.
When you gonna prosecute?

Well to Mos they don't jive...the confession was on the beach and the witness saw him at a pond. So that is Mos excuse this time, I suppose.

So pick one.  He said either or.
Supposedly there is yet another confession out there that has not been made public.
Joran made another confession since he has been in Thailand.

Well, I will say this...if the reason they denied Paulus compensation was due to someone seeing Paulus at the ATM in the jeep and this witness says he saw him too..then that tome is corroborating evidence.  But Mos won't see it that way...as far as he is concerned Joran said he was on the beach and she died accidentally that night.

Never thought of that, very good point. Corroboration.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.
Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.
The operator was definitley not soundly sleeping in his bed as reported.
He did not seem to remember a phone call in the middle of the night.

Passenger was definitely not home looking at porn @315am.
Passenger did not ride home in a Honda.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.

Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.

- - - -

VDS auto seen by neighbor, arriving home around 4am.

Two things we know about that night from Joran's babbling to Patrick:
1.  Joran was there when Natalee died.
2.  Joran had help . . . "Daury."

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

mo

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

Do we have any verification of this...a neighbor seeing them...I mean really certain that they saw Paulus??? 

Please do not take offense at this (i just posted on previous page on this) but it doesn't matter.  There could be a video of the actual crime and they still would not prosecute.  They will make up whatever they want to deny the evidence.  Any justice that will be done will have to come from the American side.  JMHO
 

[Lala'sMom]

KY
That was not why I asked...I have read this before on another blog or forum and wanted to see if it was the same....I have been searching for it for a long time.

[johan555]

Joke of the week

News about the intenational doc maker Renee Gielen

Her fantastic movie is not for broadcasting but is is a DVD  lol IMAO LOL

on NWO blog

The text on Renee Gielen's DVD "The unrevealed time lines" coming to the Dutch and U.S. market:
Bla Bla BLa etc .

So it is a DVD ?

where can we buy it ?  it think at Julia's office   

[KYcat]

KY
That was not why I asked...I have read this before on another blog or forum and wanted to see if it was the same....I have been searching for it for a long time.

Sorry if I offended.  I was just looking at the whole situation - not the specifics. 
Forgive me?
 

[KYcat]

LaLa's come back!  We need all the info we can get to arm ourselves with unrefuteable ammunition!  I for one am no help, I realize that.  The people on this website do AMAZING research.  I have no one to talk to about this case except the Monkeys. 

Slinking back to my corner of the cage........

 

[Ono]

Please refresh my memory :   Wasn't it Paulus [ only ] who said that he picked up Joran & Natalee at McDonald's ? 

Also, what is the current status of the Kalpoes' lawsuit ?

Thanks.

[texasmom]

Joke of the week

News about the intenational doc maker Renee Gielen

Her fantastic movie is not for broadcasting but is is a DVD  lol IMAO LOL

on NWO blog

The text on Renee Gielen's DVD "The unrevealed time lines" coming to the Dutch and U.S. market:
Bla Bla BLa etc .

So it is a DVD ?

where can we buy it ?  it think at Julia's office   

You're probably right Johan...Julia's the only idiot that would sell that crap!  Then again...Medley will probably be the US distributor.  No doubt they'll get a cut of the proceeds for their contributions.  If I ever view it, it will be because it was FREE.  Even then, I probably should pass on the viewing; it's just going to piss me off all over again.
 

[Slogger]

Didn't Mos say that in order to prosecute the case he would
need a witness or a confession?

Hey, Hans Mos, you have had both a confession and a witness.
When you gonna prosecute?

Well to Mos they don't jive...the confession was on the beach and the witness saw him at a pond. So that is Mos excuse this time, I suppose.

So pick one.  He said either or.
Supposedly there is yet another confession out there that has not been made public.
Joran made another confession since he has been in Thailand.

Well, I will say this...if the reason they denied Paulus compensation was due to someone seeing Paulus at the ATM in the jeep and this witness says he saw him too..then that tome is corroborating evidence.  But Mos won't see it that way...as far as he is concerned Joran said he was on the beach and she died accidentally that night.

Never thought of that, very good point. Corroboration.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.
Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.
The operator was definitley not soundly sleeping in his bed as reported.
He did not seem to remember a phone call in the middle of the night.

Passenger was definitely not home looking at porn @315am.
Passenger did not ride home in a Honda.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.

Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.

- - - -

VDS auto seen by neighbor, arriving home around 4am.

Two things we know about that night from Joran's babbling to Patrick:
1.  Joran was there when Natalee died.
2.  Joran had help . . . "Daury."

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

mo

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

Do we have any verification of this...a neighbor seeing them...I mean really certain that they saw Paulus??? 

Actually, as I understand it, the neighbor saw the VDS *car* but couldn't identify who was driving.  The car was seen in various places (around 4am) with Paulus driving.  Then the car appears at the VDS place around the same time and the sequence of sightings strongly indicates Paulus was still driving.

I have to wonder how easily that top goes up and down.  Was the top down when the car was seen at all but the VDS compound; and, was it up when it arrived at VDS'--making it difficult to identify who was driving?

[San]

Please refresh my memory :   Wasn't it Paulus [ only ] who said that he picked up Joran & Natalee at McDonald's ? 

Also, what is the current status of the Kalpoes' lawsuit ?

Thanks.

Below is a link to the latest document that was filed regarding the Kalpoes' lawsuit.

[Ono]

Please refresh my memory :   Wasn't it Paulus [ only ] who said that he picked up Joran & Natalee at McDonald's ? 

Also, what is the current status of the Kalpoes' lawsuit ?

Thanks.

Below is a link to the latest document that was filed regarding the Kalpoes' lawsuit.

Thanks, San.

[BUCKSHOT]

Posted at BFN today:

2 - the lie he had to tell his dad,who he feared most .
(I do not think a lie was necessary. He knew he needed his dad's help and and his dad was eager to help with his knowledge and connections)

Could the new witness statement be true ? Yes it could.
It confirms Paulus wasn't asleep.
It confirms that he wasn't at home.
(This is a 100% fact. Absolutely, positively true.)

Paulus steering role started on Tuesday after he checked if someone [videocam] could have seen him being in and leaving the hotel the night Natalee vanished. (What was Paulus involvement with the Holiday Inn the night that Natalee vanished? (I thought his whereabouts that evening were casino, home, po??ible party, and driving around in his red jeep...)Paulus' real alibi is the casino, which he had to hide from Anita, his wife. (Like Joran's possible lie to his father, I do not think a lie was necessary from Paulus to Anita. The magnitude of what was to come was to have Joran, Anita, and Paulus all on the same page. Paulus being out of the house was irrelevant to Anita as was Joran sneaking out irrelevant to Paulus. Cover up mode for both of them was way more important at the time.)

[BUCKSHOT]

Please refresh my memory :   Wasn't it Paulus [ only ] who said that he picked up Joran & Natalee at McDonald's ? 

Also, what is the current status of the Kalpoes' lawsuit ?

Thanks.

If I recall correctly, ALE denied Paulus' lawsuit by making him aware that they knew he had been spotted near the McDonald's.

However, to us dumb americans, Paulus' being spotted near the McDonald's is probably just speculative on our parts as Paulus lawsuit papers have probably been lost by the court system OR ruled as classified and protected as being for national security purposes.

GO FIGURE...

[BUCKSHOT]

Didn't Mos say that in order to prosecute the case he would
need a witness or a confession?

Hey, Hans Mos, you have had both a confession and a witness.
When you gonna prosecute?

Well to Mos they don't jive...the confession was on the beach and the witness saw him at a pond. So that is Mos excuse this time, I suppose.

So pick one.  He said either or.
Supposedly there is yet another confession out there that has not been made public.
Joran made another confession since he has been in Thailand.

Well, I will say this...if the reason they denied Paulus compensation was due to someone seeing Paulus at the ATM in the jeep and this witness says he saw him too..then that tome is corroborating evidence.  But Mos won't see it that way...as far as he is concerned Joran said he was on the beach and she died accidentally that night.

Never thought of that, very good point. Corroboration.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.
Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.
The operator was definitley not soundly sleeping in his bed as reported.
He did not seem to remember a phone call in the middle of the night.

Passenger was definitely not home looking at porn @315am.
Passenger did not ride home in a Honda.

Red jeep observed by witness at approximately 4am.

Red jeep observed at McDonalds with Joran (and Natalee) at approximately 4am.

Sounds like the red jeep was busy that night.

- - - -

VDS auto seen by neighbor, arriving home around 4am.

Two things we know about that night from Joran's babbling to Patrick:
1.  Joran was there when Natalee died.
2.  Joran had help . . . "Daury."

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

mo

"Daury" is nailed to the wall.

Do we have any verification of this...a neighbor seeing them...I mean really certain that they saw Paulus??? 

Actually, as I understand it, the neighbor saw the VDS *car* but couldn't identify who was driving.  The car was seen in various places (around 4am) with Paulus driving.  Then the car appears at the VDS place around the same time and the sequence of sightings strongly indicates Paulus was still driving.

I have to wonder how easily that top goes up and down.  Was the top down when the car was seen at all but the VDS compound; and, was it up when it arrived at VDS'--making it difficult to identify who was driving?

More than likely, once Paulus had a little "wink-wink" chat with him, he suddenly had a case of temporary amnesia as to the person driving the vehicle.

Witnesses were obviously intimidated, not believed, and unwilling to come forth.

ALE probably has two files on this case. They are marked:
(!) The real evidence
(2) Evidence to tell the international media.

The real evidence is hidden, if not destroyed.

It would have or would be nice if: The countries, whose citizens, are involved: Aruba, US, and (even include) Holland could agree on all three being able to at least view, confidentially, the evidence collected so as to ensure a transparent and honest investigation.

[johan555]

Please refresh my memory :   Wasn't it Paulus [ only ] who said that he picked up Joran & Natalee at McDonald's ? 

Also, what is the current status of the Kalpoes' lawsuit ?

Thanks.

If I recall correctly, ALE denied Paulus' lawsuit by making him aware that they knew he had been spotted near the McDonald's.

However, to us dumb americans, Paulus' being spotted near the McDonald's is probably just speculative on our parts as Paulus lawsuit papers have probably been lost by the court system OR ruled as classified and protected as being for national security purposes.

GO FIGURE...

but were was McDonald's in 2005 ?

[BUCKSHOT]

Posted at RU:

GBMW Posted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:24 am   

Posted by Angelalala on BFN:

Angela,

Hi. Hope everything's okay with you and your family.

I'm confident that with this new development, and if Mos doesn't interfere by destroying evidence, we will see an end to this very sad case.

Yes. Both Joran and Paul are implicated in the witnessess' declaration. That will come out in the second delivery soon.

We are willing to take on Mos and whomever else wants to raise obstacles in the path to the solution of the Nathalie case. We have some pretty good information now that can open the road to a definite solution to the case. It will all depend on how strongly the prosecution will want to oppose our findings. Personally, and from what I've seen in this case, I don't trust those people.

You can use anything I tell you in any public forum.

Take care

Jossy 

[klaasend]

Jossy Mansur on Dana Pretzer 9/12/08

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hEG3OQ4ixbw&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/hEG3OQ4ixbw&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

[Lala'sMom]

KY
That was not why I asked...I have read this before on another blog or forum and wanted to see if it was the same....I have been searching for it for a long time.

Sorry if I offended.  I was just looking at the whole situation - not the specifics. 
Forgive me?
 

Good to go!

[Ono]

Please refresh my memory :   Wasn't it Paulus [ only ] who said that he picked up Joran & Natalee at McDonald's ? 

Also, what is the current status of the Kalpoes' lawsuit ?

Thanks.

If I recall correctly, ALE denied Paulus' lawsuit by making him aware that they knew he had been spotted near the McDonald's.

However, to us dumb americans, Paulus' being spotted near the McDonald's is probably just speculative on our parts as Paulus lawsuit papers have probably been lost by the court system OR ruled as classified and protected as being for national security purposes.

GO FIGURE...

I based my question only on my remembering : didn't Paulus say something to the effect that "I picked them up at McDonald's"  and he was trying to imply that he meant Joran & Natalee?  [ Which I never believed ]... I can't remember if anybody came forward to say that they saw Paulus do this...In my opinion, he was just including Natalee to obfuscate the truth...but was there anyone who backed him up?  I didn't recall that anybody did.

[Ono]

Thanks for the video/sound of Dana & Jossy, Klass.   
Jossy is a hero-he rocks!  Everyone knows that reputable LE uses lie detectors only as a tool to try to get to the truth.....who is Mos fooling ?  Unreal.