Natalee Case Discussion #769 9/15/08 through 9/20/08

[ala_gunslinger]

Ok, let's not get into this Mason's/Freemason's are good/are bad discussion again.

It has nothing to do with the Mason's in general and everything to do with Aruba and a corrupt few.

Sorry Klaas. I am reading the pages backward!

It's OK 

Thank you Klaas.

I am a Mason.

[Jonathan45]

Thanks for welcoming me.

About the transaction I have only 1.15am in my memory.

Why do many believe that Paulus picked up Joran at the McDonalds on Sundayevening at around 10.15pm ?
I am convinced Joran [in his book] and Paulus [ in his statement] lied and misled the ALE and us about Paulus whereabouts on Sundayevening [ casino video] and the early hours of Monday May 30.

First Valentijn was babysitter till almost bedtime when Joran was brought home by his dad at around 10.20pm. to take over. [comp data - Jorin, login MSN 10.33pm]
See page 79/80 of Joran's book about the price money of the tournament.
He said to his dad in the Jeep that he lost, to surprise him the next day.
Did he gave his dad the surprise on Monday ?
We don't know. Joran didn't mention it in his book.

Valentijn is a key witness in this unsolved case.

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks for welcoming me.

About the transaction I have only 1.15am in my memory.

Why do many believe that Paulus picked up Joran at the McDonalds on Sundayevening at around 10.15pm ?
I am convinced Joran [in his book] and Paulus [ in his statement] lied and misled the ALE and us about Paulus whereabouts on Sundayevening [ casino video] and the early hours of Monday May 30.

First Valentijn was babysitter till almost bedtime when Joran was brought home by his dad at around 10.20pm. to take over. [comp data - Jorin, login MSN 10.33pm]
See page 79/80 of Joran's book about the price money of the tournament.
He said to his dad in the Jeep that he lost, to surprise him the next day.
Did he gave his dad the surprise on Monday ?
We don't know. Joran didn't mention it in his book.

Valentijn is a key witness in this unsolved case.

Thanks...you have mentioned two things that I have tried to prove for some time...the ATM transaction and dear brother Val's involvement. 

[Lala'sMom]

To pass the time...a little Shango...a little Simian:


Simian Says:June 25th, 2005 at 6:47 pm
There are 3 vehicles.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 6:57 pm
The phone call made in the small hours.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:00 pm
The boy is biting his tongue. It is all chewed up, bloody and sore.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:28 pm
The father is trapped in a legal check mate.

The boy is mutilating his own tongue. He doesn’t want to let the old man down.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:36 pm
In the other car.

Simian Says: June 25th, 2005 at 7:41 pm
Kalpoes went home. Joran stayed behind. Somebody had to come get him.




SS posted:
 Natalee Holloway / Natalee Holloway / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #768 9/9 through 9/       on: September 15, 2008, 07:15:46 AM
At one point, we were told that three cars were involved.  Car #1 was the Kalpoes who had gone home and returned. Car #2 was DTKM (Dirty Hand/Daury?) and another official in the car. Car #2 called Paulass to pick up Urine who was walking.  Paulass became Car #3.


Just to add..a witness saw the 3 perps in a car near raquet club...around 2 AM...other witness sees Joran and Paulus near Monserat Pond at 4 AM.  Stashing the body for the time being...was Natalee in the trunk when Beth and Jug arrived at the Sloots??  Were they moving her again and almost got caught?  Just thinking here.

[klaasend]

Posted today at RU by WonderWoman:

[Ono]

Here are the "family member's" posts from Riehl:

Quote:
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared.

I don't think this has been reported in the mainstream media so hopefully this will help those of of you who are following this closely. This is my first post here and I'm posting something I think all of you might find significant.

Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious

Thanks Johan!   I thought I remembered something like this.

[texasmom]

FYI

RED asked Jossy late last night for a full English translation of his part 2 article.  Hopefully Red will get it some time today.  Maybe even Angelala will get it before Red can check his email.  In any case, a full translation of the article will be forthcoming.

Thanks for the update Klaas!   

[texasmom]

FYI

RED asked Jossy late last night for a full English translation of his part 2 article.  Hopefully Red will get it some time today.  Maybe even Angelala will get it before Red can check his email.  In any case, a full translation of the article will be forthcoming.

Hopefully... yes. Jossy is probably sick of me already this morning... and I've about worn out my email accounting checking and re-checking to see ... did I get it yet.

Thanks for trying!  I love your avatar!   

[BUCKSHOT]

LIST OF POSSIBLE WITNESSES...

THE GARDENER…

The gardener signed a statement with the police saying that between 2:30 am and 3:00 am he past by the racquet club and saw Deepak’s car. Joran in driver’s seat, Deepak, beside him, and Satish in back.

While in jail, a fellow inmate says the following to Deepak, “Hey, my gardener saw all 3 of you at the racquet club that morning” and Deepak gets mad and throws the dominoes all over the table.

What I had heard on the news was they did this voice thing on the guy who supposedly witnessed her being placed at the dump. He showed no deception.

It was reported that the "gardener" was an illegal alien and after the deposition this man was going to be sent back to his country. When the gardener didn't show everyone reported that maybe he got scared and left Aruba. NOW, a judge has ordered a deposition from the gardener this week. After the deposition the "gardener" will be arrested and deported!

JOGGER…

Aruba Police Search For Anonymous Jogger In Holloway Disappearance...

The man called a few days after Holloway disappeared and claimed to have seen something, said police spokesman Edwin Comenencia. Police want him to provide sworn testimony about what he says he saw, Comenencia said. The man told the hot line operator he lived near the Marriott Hotel - around the area where Holloway was last seen - and often went jogging there late at night, police said. Comenencia declined to say what the man claimed to have seen or how long police have been looking for him.

WOMAN NEAR RACKET CLUB…

TJ Ward said that a woman witnessed the boys about 10 PM 3 or 4 times around going in and out of the racket club. They believe the boys were following up to see if the body was still there.  The witness, a woman living in the neighborhood of the racketball club, and she was able to describe the car to a “t.” And what was interesting that stuck out was the taillights — who had custom taillights on it with clear covers over red lights. And not only did she describe those taillights, but she described it all the way down to the wheels of the silver Honda.

The woman probably told the PI the truth, but someone has threatened her since. It couldn't be that difficult to figure out who she is given the neighborhood is primarily uninhabited. The suspicion is that she was threatened.  Someone is still trying to make sure that this case goes no where.

ANOTHER WITNESS…

In early June 2005 there was a witness who came forward and said he helped bury Natalee with two others using a tarp,white Pickup and buried her in a shallow grave with two others. One of the helpers worked at the Marriott. This witness was then locked up in a Mental Hospital in Aruba.

MOUNTAIN BROOK STUDENT(S)…

Quote:
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared.

Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious

KALPOE NEIGHBOR…

An eyewitness who saw both Kalpoe brothers thoroughly washing out their vehicle, at a location beside their home, which was termed "unusual." It was suggested the location was not the normal one they used and would help to obscure any view of their efforts from the street.

DUMP WITNESS…

The media is reporting that they have "witness" that says he saw the body of a blond haired woman being removed from the Holiday Inn on the morning that NH went missing. Says the body was put in a white truck and headed north toward the lighthouse.

The other "witness" has a white truck placing something that looked like a body in the municipal dump at the southeast end of the island.

The witness claimed he saw more than one person dump into the landfill something he believes could have been a covered body, CNN has learned from sources briefed on the investigation. The witness also gave police a license tag number that reportedly belonged to a white pickup truck.

Police tell CNN that a tag check found that the vehicle was not at the landfill at or around the time the witness claimed

[BUCKSHOT]

Earlier reports have suggested that a search at the home of Joran Van der Sloot turned up a shoe which may have been covered with mud, or muck. The shoe had no match.

From the get-go, authorities claimed Joran lost his shoe in the pond as the water was very low at the time

[BUCKSHOT]

Curious Activity At Van der Sloot Home

A large image shows Paul(us) Van der Sloot talking to an indivdual who appears to have arrived in a furniture truck.

DANA'S WOONIDEE
Fergusonstraat 21-A
ORANJESTAD
Tel: (297) 5830912
Fax: (297) 5830793
Business Category: Furniture Outlets


Wonder what this furniture truck was doing that day...
Did anyone ever figure it out??

[texasmom]

And don't forget the transaction at the bank in Noord at 1.15am. Joran was at the time leaving C&C. Was it Paulus ? My answer is yes.
Was Paulus in the casino the nightly hours Natalee vanished ? Yes, he was.
 

WELCOME, Jonathan45!!!

Buckshot and others are also questioning the bank transaction, and the time it took place.  IIRC, we've also seen a later time, closer to the 3-4am timeframe.  Not sure we have the proof.....what makes you say 1:15am?  Maybe my memory is failing me.

Thought I read it some where. I am not sure on the time.

My only thoughts were:
(a) if 3-4am-ish...Paulus home OR already out and about when call received from Joran
(b) if 115am-ish...Paulus already out and about when call received from Joran.

Paulus, most believe, was already out and about and probably at the casino.
Why would Joran have to "sneak out" if that were the case?
Why would Paulus pick Joran up at 11pm at McD?

I believe it is likely that Paulus had the red Suzuki parked in a lot near the Holiday Inn and or on the street and was called by Joran and he asked Paulus to meet him at the McDonald's.

There is a huge lot across the street from the Hyatt, by that would be kind of far to walk if your destination is the HI. Therefore, the Suzuki must have been near the HI.

This also seems to eliminate the beach as Joran would have walked passed the HI and Paulus to reach the McDonald's. There would be no need to walk that far if you are catching a ride from someone who was already situated north of the McDonald's. Fisherman huts to Marriott to HI to the McDonald's makes no sense unless Joran was already near that area.

another nail in the coffin for the beach story.

The red Suzuki was also confiscated and there must have been a reason for that.

What do we know about the other SUV type vehicle that was confiscated.  I've always been curious as to why ALL of the vehicles weren't taken...the silver car that Paulus drove himself to jail in?  

This vehicle was taken along with the red jeep.

sorry about the "hand" in this one  

[BUCKSHOT]

LIST OF POSSIBLE WITNESSES...

THE GARDENER…

The gardener signed a statement with the police saying that between 2:30 am and 3:00 am he past by the racquet club and saw Deepak’s car. Joran in driver’s seat, Deepak, beside him, and Satish in back.

While in jail, a fellow inmate says the following to Deepak, “Hey, my gardener saw all 3 of you at the racquet club that morning” and Deepak gets mad and throws the dominoes all over the table.

It was reported that the "gardener" was an illegal alien and after the deposition this man was going to be sent back to his country. When the gardener didn't show everyone reported that maybe he got scared and left Aruba. NOW, a judge has ordered a deposition from the gardener this week. After the deposition the "gardener" will be arrested and deported!

JOGGER…

Aruba Police Search For Anonymous Jogger In Holloway Disappearance...

The man called a few days after Holloway disappeared and claimed to have seen something, said police spokesman Edwin Comenencia. Police want him to provide sworn testimony about what he says he saw, Comenencia said. The man told the hot line operator he lived near the Marriott Hotel - around the area where Holloway was last seen - and often went jogging there late at night, police said. Comenencia declined to say what the man claimed to have seen or how long police have been looking for him.

WOMAN NEAR RACKET CLUB…

TJ Ward said that a woman witnessed the boys about 10 PM 3 or 4 times around going in and out of the racket club. They believe the boys were following up to see if the body was still there.  The witness, a woman living in the neighborhood of the racketball club, and she was able to describe the car to a “t.” And what was interesting that stuck out was the taillights — who had custom taillights on it with clear covers over red lights. And not only did she describe those taillights, but she described it all the way down to the wheels of the silver Honda.

The woman probably told the PI the truth, but someone has threatened her since. It couldn't be that difficult to figure out who she is given the neighborhood is primarily uninhabited. The suspicion is that she was threatened.  Someone is still trying to make sure that this case goes no where.

ANOTHER WITNESS…

In early June 2005 there was a witness who came forward and said he helped bury Natalee with two others using a tarp,white Pickup and buried her in a shallow grave with two others. One of the helpers worked at the Marriott. This witness was then locked up in a Mental Hospital in Aruba.

MOUNTAIN BROOK STUDENT(S)…

Quote:
I'm in Mountain Brook and from the people who have recently returned from Aruba is that Van der Sloot's dad was seen at a McDonald's at 3 a.m. the night Natalee disappeared.

Natalee goes missing at about 1 to 1:30 a.m. and the Van der Sloot's dad is seen at a McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. There to me it is very suspicious

KALPOE NEIGHBOR…

An eyewitness who saw both Kalpoe brothers thoroughly washing out their vehicle, at a location beside their home, which was termed "unusual." It was suggested the location was not the normal one they used and would help to obscure any view of their efforts from the street.

DUMP WITNESS…

The media is reporting that they have "witness" that says he saw the body of a blond haired woman being removed from the Holiday Inn on the morning that NH went missing. Says the body was put in a white truck and headed north toward the lighthouse.

The other "witness" has a white truck placing something that looked like a body in the municipal dump at the southeast end of the island.

The witness claimed he saw more than one person dump into the landfill something he believes could have been a covered body, CNN has learned from sources briefed on the investigation. The witness also gave police a license tag number that reportedly belonged to a white pickup truck.

Police tell CNN that a tag check found that the vehicle was not at the landfill at or around the time the witness claimed

What I had heard on the news was they did this voice thing on the guy who supposedly witnessed her being placed at the dump. He showed no deception.

Corrected.

[johan555]

 This witness was then locked up in a Mental Hospital in Aruba.

who was this person ?

[johan555]

This witness was then locked up in a Mental Hospital in Aruba.

who was this person ?

And ... locked up >>>> in the KIA ?

[BUCKSHOT]

Has the Diario article been translated as of yet?

[angelalala]

From Jossy...

Key witness reveals what happened 4:05 am at Monserat

Paulus and Joran were “looking” for something on the side of the road

ORANJESTAD(AAN):  Last week, DIARIO published the latest information regarding the key witness, who came forward to disclose everything he witnessed on May 2005 from his house, which is situated in the neighborhood of the Nacional Soccer field, close to the Monserat pond.

However the witness was afraid to come forward to the Police and local Prosecutor, because of the prejudice in the Prosecutor Office, which is alive and growing each day.
He did give a statement to the Prosecutor, but to certain extent. The more important and key details he revealed to the American investigators.

The American investigators listened very carefully to his story and immediately felt that he was telling the truth. They then asked him if he was willing to go to the States and pass a polygraph test.

The witness was tested by John S. Swartz, a renowned professional in this field, and the test revealed that he was telling the truth! Finally shedding some light on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005.

Last week, after months of following the new developments, DIARIO published the first part of the witness’ statement. This statement that was already in Prosecutor Mos’s hands.

DIARIO opted to wait until after the FBI sent the results of the polygraph test and their investigation to Holland, before publishing the second part of the statement, considering that Holland would send a copy to Aruba.

THE WITNESS’ STATEMENT

On May 30th, 2005 he was sleeping in his room; when he was awaken by the alarming sound of barking dogs. He opened his eyes and checked his alarm clock; it was 4:05 am.

He got up and listening to where the barking was coming from, he went in the living room and peeked thru the window to find out why the dogs sounded so alarmed.

Under the streetlight, he saw someone walking towards his house, from the Nacional Soccer field, close to the Monserat pond and hotel area.

While the person was walking under another streetlight, he could clearly see the person. It was undoubtedly a man, notably tall, slim, Caucasian, with short and dark hair, relatively young and he looked like a Dutch citizen.

He could see his profile and one side of his face.

He was wearing a red t-shirt and light colored pants. The witness noticed by the way the person was limping, that he was missing his right sneaker or shoe. He also noted that the person was breathing extremely hard, as if he just had been running very hard for a long time. His chest was heaving.

WET AND MUDDY CLOTHES

The witness stated (and probably also in the lie-detector test), that the person clothes were wet and that he also saw a muddy stripe on his chest, more or less about 5 centimeters above his chest.

The muddy stripe on his chest clearly showed that he was completely wet.

At first glance, the witness though that the person maybe had been in a fight with someone, and he was running not to get beat up. But his face showed no bruises or blood.

But because he didn’t look back not even to check if someone might be following him and just kept walking fast with his head down, the witness thought he did something other that fighting.

The person walked past his house, and kept walking, until he was out of sight, and he never raised his head or looked back, and just kept walking in the hotel’s direction.

This happened in about one minute.

NEW INFORMATION

After the witness saw the person walk past his house and was out of sight, he sat down in his living room for about 5 minutes.

He then noticed a car driving slowly, coming from the hotel area. Behind the wheel was a middle-aged, Caucasian man. Next to him, the witness saw the young man that was walking past his house a few minutes earlier.

The witness said they were driving a red jeep, and that they were driving extremely slow. He stated to the American investigators that was clearly that the driver and the passenger were looking for something on the floor. He said that the car just keep going in the direction of the Monserat pond.

HE RECOGNIZED THE DRIVER

According to the witness, in the following weeks he recognized the young man as Joran van der Sloot, when his pictures started to circulate in the press, and that the disappearance of Natalee Holloway became an international media frenzy.

He also recognized the driver as Paulus van der Sloot, Joran’s father. The witness stated that, that was everything he saw and that nothing more happened.

The question in everyone mind is: What were Paulus and Joran looking for on that road? The fact that the witness passed the polygraph test and is telling the truth is enough to focus the attention on that.

Of course the public wants to know why this witness didn’t come forward in 2005.

The witness was afraid of the consequences of his statement, since he was well aware that Paulus van der Sloot has powerful connections in the Prosecutors Office. Paulus is a lawyer, and he was studying to become a judge.

Knowing that the justice system in Aruba is totally in Dutch hands, he felt compelled to keep his mouth shut. This went on for more than 2 years, and in the end of 2007, he felt the need to reveal what he saw that day from his house.

The witness hired a lawyer to defend him, because in such a complicated case, even the witness has to be prepared for any eventuality, and also for guidance.

Meanwhile American investigators, with the consent from local authorities, did a sonar test at the Monserat pond in the beginning of this year, when the water level was low.

DIARIO was informed that this test discovered 15 objects underwater, and that only 3 could be defined.

A polygraph (popularly referred to as a lie detector) is an instrument that measures and records several physiological responses such as blood pressure, pulse, respiration and skin conductivity while the subject is asked and answers a series of questions, on the theory that false answers will produce distinctive measurements. The polygraph measures physiological changes caused by the sympathetic nervous system during questioning.

The 48 year old witness passed this test with flying colors, indicating that everything he saw that dawn, close to the Monserat pond, is true.

DIARIO presumes that the Prosecutor’s Office received this statement from Holland, and just in case they didn’t, they can read it today for free and begin to do their homework.             

[klaasend]

Angelala - thank you so much!

[angelalala]

Angelala - thank you so much!

My pleasure. I also carted Buckshot's list of witnesses over to BFN... hope that's okay... I did link it to the post here.

[johan555]

From Jossy...

Key witness reveals what happened 4:05 am at Monserat

Paulus and Joran were “looking” for something on the side of the road

ORANJESTAD(AAN):  Last week, DIARIO published the latest information regarding the key witness, who came forward to disclose everything he witnessed on May 2005 from his house, which is situated in the neighborhood of the Nacional Soccer field, close to the Monserat pond.

However the witness was afraid to come forward to the Police and local Prosecutor, because of the prejudice in the Prosecutor Office, which is alive and growing each day.
He did give a statement to the Prosecutor, but to certain extent. The more important and key details he revealed to the American investigators.

The American investigators listened very carefully to his story and immediately felt that he was telling the truth. They then asked him if he was willing to go to the States and pass a polygraph test.

The witness was tested by John S. Swartz, a renowned professional in this field, and the test revealed that he was telling the truth! Finally shedding some light on the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in 2005.

Last week, after months of following the new developments, DIARIO published the first part of the witness’ statement. This statement that was already in Prosecutor Mos’s hands.

DIARIO opted to wait until after the FBI sent the results of the polygraph test and their investigation to Holland, before publishing the second part of the statement, considering that Holland would send a copy to Aruba.

THE WITNESS’ STATEMENT

On May 30th, 2005 he was sleeping in his room; when he was awaken by the alarming sound of barking dogs. He opened his eyes and checked his alarm clock; it was 4:05 am.

He got up and listening to where the barking was coming from, he went in the living room and peeked thru the window to find out why the dogs sounded so alarmed.

Under the streetlight, he saw someone walking towards his house, from the Nacional Soccer field, close to the Monserat pond and hotel area.

While the person was walking under another streetlight, he could clearly see the person. It was undoubtedly a man, notably tall, slim, Caucasian, with short and dark hair, relatively young and he looked like a Dutch citizen.

He could see his profile and one side of his face.

He was wearing a red t-shirt and light colored pants. The witness noticed by the way the person was limping, that he was missing his right sneaker or shoe. He also noted that the person was breathing extremely hard, as if he just had been running very hard for a long time. His chest was heaving.

WET AND MUDDY CLOTHES

The witness stated (and probably also in the lie-detector test), that the person clothes were wet and that he also saw a muddy stripe on his chest, more or less about 5 centimeters above his chest.

The muddy stripe on his chest clearly showed that he was completely wet.

At first glance, the witness though that the person maybe had been in a fight with someone, and he was running not to get beat up. But his face showed no bruises or blood.

But because he didn’t look back not even to check if someone might be following him and just kept walking fast with his head down, the witness thought he did something other that fighting.

The person walked past his house, and kept walking, until he was out of sight, and he never raised his head or looked back, and just kept walking in the hotel’s direction.

This happened in about one minute.

NEW INFORMATION

After the witness saw the person walk past his house and was out of sight, he sat down in his living room for about 5 minutes.

He then noticed a car driving slowly, coming from the hotel area. Behind the wheel was a middle-aged, Caucasian man. Next to him, the witness saw the young man that was walking past his house a few minutes earlier.

The witness said they were driving a red jeep, and that they were driving extremely slow. He stated to the American investigators that was clearly that the driver and the passenger were looking for something on the floor. He said that the car just keep going in the direction of the Monserat pond.

HE RECOGNIZED THE DRIVER

According to the witness, in the following weeks he recognized the young man as Joran van der Sloot, when his pictures started to circulate in the press, and that the disappearance of Natalee Holloway became an international media frenzy.

He also recognized the driver as Paulus van der Sloot, Joran’s father. The witness stated that, that was everything he saw and that nothing more happened.

The question in everyone mind is: What were Paulus and Joran looking for on that road? The fact that the witness passed the polygraph test and is telling the truth is enough to focus the attention on that.

Of course the public wants to know why this witness didn’t come forward in 2005.

The witness was afraid of the consequences of his statement, since he was well aware that Paulus van der Sloot has powerful connections in the Prosecutors Office. Paulus is a lawyer, and he was studying to become a judge.

Knowing that the justice system in Aruba is totally in Dutch hands, he felt compelled to keep his mouth shut. This went on for more than 2 years, and in the end of 2007, he felt the need to reveal what he saw that day from his house.

The witness hired a lawyer to defend him, because in such a complicated case, even the witness has to be prepared for any eventuality, and also for guidance.

Meanwhile American investigators, with the consent from local authorities, did a sonar test at the Monserat pond in the beginning of this year, when the water level was low.

DIARIO was informed that this test discovered 15 objects underwater, and that only 3 could be defined.

A polygraph (popularly referred to as a lie detector) is an instrument that measures and records several physiological responses such as blood pressure, pulse, respiration and skin conductivity while the subject is asked and answers a series of questions, on the theory that false answers will produce distinctive measurements. The polygraph measures physiological changes caused by the sympathetic nervous system during questioning.

The 48 year old witness passed this test with flying colors, indicating that everything he saw that dawn, close to the Monserat pond, is true.

DIARIO presumes that the Prosecutor’s Office received this statement from Holland, and just in case they didn’t, they can read it today for free and begin to do their homework.