Natalee Case Discussion #769 9/15/08 through 9/20/08

[Lala'sMom]

I can only surmise that Paulus and Joran were in fact looking for the missing shoe. BUT, why? Joran would known that it was in the pond. If we remove the shoe from what was the list - there may have been another item tied to Natalee that Joran may have dropped.

It seems that the shoe is accounted for in the pond - so, what would Paulus and Joran be looking for?

and does anyone have any idea what the three identified items were?

list -

Natalee's flop flops
Natalee's driver's license
50 dollar bill belonging to Natalee and identified by Deepak.

I thought the shoe from the pond was not Jorans?..

LoRain - the shoe that someone planted at near some rocks last Spring was not Urine's shoe.  ALE never admitted finding a shoe when they drained the Monserat pond and had the Dutch forensic people search.

Jossy said they found a shoe.

[KYcat]

Back to the t-shirt.  Joran could have "borrowed" one from Deepak or someone else for that matter.  He was definitely somewhere between CnC and his now infamous walk from the pond.  Plenty of time to ruin his blue/white check shirt and borrow a red t-shirt.  Also, don't know what the mud looks like in Aruba but here we have red clay mud and on a white t-shirt it definitely looks red.
 

[LoRain]

Thanks SS...

I'll look Slogger...

What's the name of the other pond...Valinjin or something like that ??

[LoRain]

I STILL can't help but wonder if this was not what I read that Kalpoe's HAD to wash off the car because if someone saw it they would know where they had been....

[klaasend]

Deepak 5/31/05 PV

On your question if Joran and the girl had stepped from my car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea;
I will answer you no.

On your question if my brother has a mobile telephone: I will answer you yes. My brother has a mobile telephone with the number "xxxxxxx".

On your question if you can me tell what the girl wore, I answer you the following: She wore a blue jeans skirt and she wore a pale blue blouse. I wore a blue nail trousers and a red top

------------------
Satish 5/31/05 PV

On your question if Joran and the girl had gotten out of the car at the Fisherman’s Huts and walked by the sea; I answer you no. Joran and the girl never got out of Deepak’s car.

On your question if my brother has a mobile telephone; I answer you yes. My brother has a mobile telephone with the number "xxxxxxx". I have a mobile telephone with the number "xxxxxxx".

On your question if you can me tell what the girl was wearing, I answer you the following: She wore a blue blouse and a skirt. I wore brown long trousers, a blue cap and a blue pullover. She had light straight hair and these were not braided

---------

Joran 5/31/05 PV

To your question, if I can tell you what the girl was wearing I answer you the following. She was wearing a blue jeans skirt and in my opinion a blue tank-top. I was wearing a blue jeans and blue/white shirt.

Thanks Magnolia - so if Joran was wearing a red shirt it would have been under is blue plaid shirt that he wore all the time.  Deepak was wearing a red shirt that night. 

[LoRain]

I thought he did Lala...did he say that on the Radio Show?....heck I just listened to it today....

[sharon]

Thanks for welcoming me.

About the transaction I have only 1.15am in my memory.

Why do many believe that Paulus picked up Joran at the McDonalds on Sundayevening at around 10.15pm ?
I am convinced Joran [in his book] and Paulus [ in his statement] lied and misled the ALE and us about Paulus whereabouts on Sundayevening [ casino video] and the early hours of Monday May 30.

First Valentijn was babysitter till almost bedtime when Joran was brought home by his dad at around 10.20pm. to take over. [comp data - Jorin, login MSN 10.33pm]
See page 79/80 of Joran's book about the price money of the tournament.
He said to his dad in the Jeep that he lost, to surprise him the next day.
Did he gave his dad the surprise on Monday ?
We don't know. Joran didn't mention it in his book.

Valentijn is a key witness in this unsolved case.

Thanks...you have mentioned two things that I have tried to prove for some time...the ATM transaction and dear brother Val's involvement. 

A 'legal checkmate', perhaps?


I'm so glad there is activity and attention to Natalee's justice.

And it is very nice to see j45 posting here 

j45 -- why did Paulus have to 'hide' his casino visit from Anita?

[Lala'sMom]

Back to the t-shirt.  Joran could have "borrowed" one from Deepak or someone else for that matter.  He was definitely somewhere between CnC and his now infamous walk from the pond.  Plenty of time to ruin his blue/white check shirt and borrow a red t-shirt.  Also, don't know what the mud looks like in Aruba but here we have red clay mud and on a white t-shirt it definitely looks red.
 

How much light is there under a streetlight in Aruba?  How close to daylight was 4:05 AM?  It could all be a play on light and the fact that the witness was not planning on seeing a suspect in a crime at that time of the morning.  I live where there are plenty of street lights and you can see well enough to identify people and sometimes get close to the color of their shirt.  As someone here has said...it could be the way the light looked on the shirt or he may have been wearing a red shirt. 

Regardless, the Dutch will never allow a polygraph conducted on a witness by any one in the USA to come into evidence.  Remember on Aruba it's not a trial by jury but by a Dutch judge.  We all know how easy it is to get a private audience with a judge if you are Dutch in Aruba even if you commit a crime...re: Lorenzo and his drugs charges....just think how easy it will be for Paulus to pull some more strings just in case this should ever go to trial....which I doubt will ever happen.   Again no body...no case....Caps find that body!  That is the last thing we need to solve this case.

[Lala'sMom]

I thought he did Lala...did he say that on the Radio Show?....heck I just listened to it today....

That is what I said...Jossy said they found a shoe.

[SS]

I can only surmise that Paulus and Joran were in fact looking for the missing shoe. BUT, why? Joran would known that it was in the pond. If we remove the shoe from what was the list - there may have been another item tied to Natalee that Joran may have dropped.

It seems that the shoe is accounted for in the pond - so, what would Paulus and Joran be looking for?

and does anyone have any idea what the three identified items were?

list -

Natalee's flop flops
Natalee's driver's license
50 dollar bill belonging to Natalee and identified by Deepak.

I thought the shoe from the pond was not Jorans?..

LoRain - the shoe that someone planted at near some rocks last Spring was not Urine's shoe.  ALE never admitted finding a shoe when they drained the Monserat pond and had the Dutch forensic people search.

Jossy said they found a shoe.

Thanks Lala's.  Does Jossy know if they lost that piece of ecidence, too???   

[Lala'sMom]

Thanks for welcoming me.

About the transaction I have only 1.15am in my memory.

Why do many believe that Paulus picked up Joran at the McDonalds on Sundayevening at around 10.15pm ?
I am convinced Joran [in his book] and Paulus [ in his statement] lied and misled the ALE and us about Paulus whereabouts on Sundayevening [ casino video] and the early hours of Monday May 30.

First Valentijn was babysitter till almost bedtime when Joran was brought home by his dad at around 10.20pm. to take over. [comp data - Jorin, login MSN 10.33pm]
See page 79/80 of Joran's book about the price money of the tournament.
He said to his dad in the Jeep that he lost, to surprise him the next day.
Did he gave his dad the surprise on Monday ?
We don't know. Joran didn't mention it in his book.

Valentijn is a key witness in this unsolved case.

Thanks...you have mentioned two things that I have tried to prove for some time...the ATM transaction and dear brother Val's involvement. 

A 'legal checkmate', perhaps?


I'm so glad there is activity and attention to Natalee's justice.

And it is very nice to see j45 posting here 

j45 -- why did Paulus have to 'hide' his casino visit from Anita?

Hi Sharon...yes, it's beginning to be clearer every day.

And to think everyone made fun of me about Shango...

[Lala'sMom]

I can only surmise that Paulus and Joran were in fact looking for the missing shoe. BUT, why? Joran would known that it was in the pond. If we remove the shoe from what was the list - there may have been another item tied to Natalee that Joran may have dropped.

It seems that the shoe is accounted for in the pond - so, what would Paulus and Joran be looking for?

and does anyone have any idea what the three identified items were?

list -

Natalee's flop flops
Natalee's driver's license
50 dollar bill belonging to Natalee and identified by Deepak.

I thought the shoe from the pond was not Jorans?..

LoRain - the shoe that someone planted at near some rocks last Spring was not Urine's shoe.  ALE never admitted finding a shoe when they drained the Monserat pond and had the Dutch forensic people search.

Jossy said they found a shoe.

Thanks Lala's.  Does Jossy know if they lost that piece of ecidence, too???   

I think Jossy said it was given to ALE or OM...can't remember which, but I am sure they still have it stored....in the closet...full of skeletons...and all such evidence pertaining to this case.

[klaasend]

Lala's - I didn't make fun of you 

[KYcat]

Back to the t-shirt.  Joran could have "borrowed" one from Deepak or someone else for that matter.  He was definitely somewhere between CnC and his now infamous walk from the pond.  Plenty of time to ruin his blue/white check shirt and borrow a red t-shirt.  Also, don't know what the mud looks like in Aruba but here we have red clay mud and on a white t-shirt it definitely looks red.
 

How much light is there under a streetlight in Aruba?  How close to daylight was 4:05 AM?  It could all be a play on light and the fact that the witness was not planning on seeing a suspect in a crime at that time of the morning.  I live where there are plenty of street lights and you can see well enough to identify people and sometimes get close to the color of their shirt.  As someone here has said...it could be the way the light looked on the shirt or he may have been wearing a red shirt. 

Regardless, the Dutch will never allow a polygraph conducted on a witness by any one in the USA to come into evidence.  Remember on Aruba it's not a trial by jury but by a Dutch judge.  We all know how easy it is to get a private audience with a judge if you are Dutch in Aruba even if you commit a crime...re: Lorenzo and his drugs charges....just think how easy it will be for Paulus to pull some more strings just in case this should ever go to trial....which I doubt will ever happen.   Again no body...no case....Caps find that body!  That is the last thing we need to solve this case.

Agree... that is why the American side is our only hope.  I love CAPS new avi with the COWBOYS finding the way to the Lamb.  Our only hope.
 

[Magnolia]

IMO Joran would have never put a red T shirt under his blue & white shirt.
Not his style.
I do think he would have taken Deepak's before he sent the Shivas home
if his was messed up...however that may have happened.

[KYcat]

LaLas - I not making fun of you regarding Shango.  I was totally intrigued by the Shango/Simian threads.  Whoever was trying to give us clues - I just was confused all the time I was reading there!!!  LOL

 

[LoRain]

I thought he did Lala...did he say that on the Radio Show?....heck I just listened to it today....

That is what I said...Jossy said they found a shoe.

LOL...I meant to say "I thought he did TOO....sorry...

[SS]

Thanks for welcoming me.

About the transaction I have only 1.15am in my memory.

Why do many believe that Paulus picked up Joran at the McDonalds on Sundayevening at around 10.15pm ?
I am convinced Joran [in his book] and Paulus [ in his statement] lied and misled the ALE and us about Paulus whereabouts on Sundayevening [ casino video] and the early hours of Monday May 30.

First Valentijn was babysitter till almost bedtime when Joran was brought home by his dad at around 10.20pm. to take over. [comp data - Jorin, login MSN 10.33pm]
See page 79/80 of Joran's book about the price money of the tournament.
He said to his dad in the Jeep that he lost, to surprise him the next day.
Did he gave his dad the surprise on Monday ?
We don't know. Joran didn't mention it in his book.

Valentijn is a key witness in this unsolved case.

Thanks...you have mentioned two things that I have tried to prove for some time...the ATM transaction and dear brother Val's involvement. 

A 'legal checkmate', perhaps?


I'm so glad there is activity and attention to Natalee's justice.

And it is very nice to see j45 posting here 

j45 -- why did Paulus have to 'hide' his casino visit from Anita?

Hi Sharon...yes, it's beginning to be clearer every day.

And to think everyone made fun of me about Shango...

It looks like all of our Boolean headaches paid off!!!   

[LoRain]

Hi LoRain,

The guy's neck is strange.  If you hold your finger over the face, you see the back of the head, ear, and back of neck.

Who does that look like?   

Slogger...the more I looked the more "things" I saw...who do you see?..

[Lala'sMom]

I am just going to say what I think here and don't anyone get angry at me about it...but the witness...which I have known about for some time...must be a good person..but Mos knows that a good defense attorney can tear him apart.  This is my greatest fear...that he and his family will be intimated before anything is done and you can bet someone will pick every single thing that this person ever did in their life apart and make it look as if he is not reliable.  Heck, they have even put people in prison for less without reason.

Mos has known about his witness for a long time...ever since Caps first brought him out in the open...so why has Mos been dragging his feet?  What is his excuse?  Jossy said that Mos told this witness that Paulus was a nice man...now to me that sounds like intimidation right there....how can you get anything moving if the prosecutor is already doing this???  Is everyone involved with this witness willing to take on the Dutch in Aruba?  What would that cost all involved?  I hope  everyone  is willing to endure some of the crap that all the other people have endured in this case.  They won't let this go lightly if there is any way some truth is in there...which I think there is. 

Mos has been given many chances to make this happen...he knows about all of this stuff and still he does nothing.....nothing!!  They need to dig up that pond where the shoe was lost...they need to dig up the Sloots pool area...they need to do a lot of things...but they won't.  DeVries provided Patrick with his information and since that broke...the case has been at a standstill because for all intents and purposes Joran confessed that Natalee died on the beach in his arms from some kind of a seizure and his dear, dear friend Daury took the body out to sea and dumped it....that is the end as far as the OM is concerned.  I want Mos to arrest Paulus and Joran, but where is Joran?  What are the chances that will happen?   I say slim to none....and believe me I want to be wrong....I want to be so wrong on this one.   


Dirty Hand is still alive and well and he still walks in all circles and apparently that include the OM and ALE.