Natalee Case Discussion #769 9/15/08 through 9/20/08

[Slogger]

I'm trying to compare the plaid in the crowd shot at Cnc

   

to the plaid in the detention photo                                                                                                                                                                                     

[KYcat]

   Pooch glad you are back.  Just wanted you to know that IMHO we have a right to disagree without getting accused of "dishing out dis-info."  It was a simple question that I addressed to you and did not warrant the remark you made.  So, I would appreciate it if you would not EVER AGAIN accuse me of dishing out dis-info on this board.  If you feel the need then we can take it to Klass and do it privately.

Okay with you?

[Miss Scarlet]

I think that the Kalpoe washed the car becuase after MATTY, his car was used to move the body, all went to the sloot home and from there after they give instructions to the  Kalpoes what to say if question by the authorities the next day...all got instruction around the pool that night at paules home.

After Kalpoes Left, the Babylonians (Paules in the Jeep, Frans Deutekom and van Straten in his Black Blazer, Vonking and Joran in Gray honda) deside to despose of the body since they are the Authority and can sing any tune in this case.

In which car was Natalee after was moved to the pond?. the gray honda.

Joran and Ben king wich also has dirtyfeed helped Joran to carry her to the pond. From this site, Vonking left leaving Joran alone at the pond and in the act of desposing the body.

When Joran came out from the pond, he was dirty and can't go home and was looking for the Jeep but the jeep was not there.

the jeep could not be over the soccer field since the honda just left and there are 2 guard on the other side of the street. watching the 2 banks. so he had no other choice to use the scondary road and run and walk till he can find where the road merges with the main road were his father came to pick him up near Mcdonalds and from there they went back home.

CAPS

Caps, I like your thinking. It certainly explains why so many powerful people on Aruba, from government to to law enforcement to judiciary, fought for the Van der Sloots for so long, even at the total ruination of their island's economy and image. But then, I doubt these people really care about Aruba, they only care about their selfish interests.

Bumping forward Caps' theory of people involved in the disposal. More reasons for a widespread cover-up!

Forgive me if I am not remembering correctly, but isn't van der stratten the one who said something to the effect, because I know the facts of this case and you don't?, in response to someone's question regarding Natalee being dead?

[Slogger]

Wow, it worked.  That's the first time I tried it.


The shirts look to be the same pattern, but not the same shirt.

On the left sleeve, the horizontal stripe is at the bottom of the sleeve (in the crowd photo.)

On the left sleeve, the horizontal stripe is not visible at the bottom of the sleeve (in the detention photo.)

If it is the same pattern, it isn't the same shirt but looks very, very close. 

[Rob]

Forgive me if I am not remembering correctly, but isn't van der stratten the one who said something to the effect, because I know the facts of this case and you don't?, in response to someone's question regarding Natalee being dead?

it was like this -

do you have any hope that Natalee is alive?

van der straaten - there is always hope, but I know the details because I am an investigator and you're not.

here is the exact quote -

What Does van der Straten Know About Natalee Holloway?

h/t to Hasibokus - read more there.

In a Dutch interview Aruban Police Superintendent Jan van der Straten told the reporter that he doesn’t believe that Natalee is still alive.

With regard to Natalee’s status, van der Straaten gave the following statement to a Dutch reporter:

Translation:

Rep: Any hopes for a positive outcome?

Jan: You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.

Rep: Why not?

Jan: Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!

Update: Apparently the translation was first provided by reader repo.

Update2 from a reader:

The correct translation of what Mr. Van der Straten said, i.e., Omdat ik het
onderzoek ken en u niet, is: "Because I am an investigator (a policeman) and you
are not."

It is not, as earlier reported, "Because I know the details and you don't."

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/what_does_van_d.html

[Miss Scarlet]

Deepak 5/31/05 PV


On your question if you can me tell what the girl wore, I answer you the following: She wore a blue jeans skirt and she wore a pale blue blouse. I wore a blue nail trousers and a red top

This is a great explantion for the red T'shirt. regardless of whether Joran is that much bigger than Deepak, in a pinch he could wear a T'shirt much smaller, especially if his other shirt need to be destroyed due to blood or fluid evidence. I like to wear an X-Large size T'shirt  but can fit into a Medium if I have to. I can very easily see Joran commandeering Deepak's T'shirt that night. It would be no problem for him to go down two or three sizes.

Also, we've seen Deepak in larger shirts.  A large Deepak shirt might be snug on Joran . . . but would be very possible, imo.

NOTE:  My 24yr old stepson is 6'4", he should wear a size XL t-shirt at least but insists upon wearing a medium.  He looks really stupid, IMO.  My point is although it would look silly Joran could certainly put on a medium or large t-shirt of Deepak's or anyone else.

I hope he doesn't read the second sentence.   

[Miss Scarlet]

Wow, it worked.  That's the first time I tried it.


The shirts look to be the same pattern, but not the same shirt.

On the left sleeve, the horizontal stripe is at the bottom of the sleeve (in the crowd photo.)

On the left sleeve, the horizontal stripe is not visible at the bottom of the sleeve (in the detention photo.)

If it is the same pattern, it isn't the same shirt but looks very, very close. 

He clearly has an affinity for blue plaid on white.

[Lala'sMom]

A good question would be when the witness that saw Deepak and Joran at the other area near the raquet club in the car.....what color shirt was Joran wearing then?  he saw him enough to identify him...so he should be able to tell us what color shirt he was wearing or if it was a t-shirt compared to a collared shirt.  Of course, we will never know now...since he has been discredited by the PTB. 

[Miss Scarlet]

Forgive me if I am not remembering correctly, but isn't van der stratten the one who said something to the effect, because I know the facts of this case and you don't?, in response to someone's question regarding Natalee being dead?

it was like this -

do you have any hope that Natalee is alive?

van der straaten - there is always hope, but I know the details because I am an investigator and you're not.

here is the exact quote -

What Does van der Straten Know About Natalee Holloway?

h/t to Hasibokus - read more there.

In a Dutch interview Aruban Police Superintendent Jan van der Straten told the reporter that he doesn’t believe that Natalee is still alive.

With regard to Natalee’s status, van der Straaten gave the following statement to a Dutch reporter:

Translation:

Rep: Any hopes for a positive outcome?

Jan: You always have to be hopeful, but I don’t believe anymore that we will find Natalee alive.

Rep: Why not?

Jan: Because I know the details of the investigation and you don't!

Update: Apparently the translation was first provided by reader repo.

Update2 from a reader:

The correct translation of what Mr. Van der Straten said, i.e., Omdat ik het
onderzoek ken en u niet, is: "Because I am an investigator (a policeman) and you
are not."

It is not, as earlier reported, "Because I know the details and you don't."

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/07/what_does_van_d.html

Well he told on himself then, didn't he - - - Colossal Loser - he was THERE!   

[wreck]

"rammed up Sunshine Cove"   

[Lala'sMom]

"rammed up Sunshine Cove"   

I would love to witness that one...it would be the highlight of my life.

[RoxiBalboa]

Thanks, Scared Monkeys, for approving my registration.

Thanks to all, who obviously will never stop the fight. I read everything, watched everything for a long time, years. Then just recently I had a dream that there was something new happening in the case. That morning I came to this site immediatly. You were all talking about the new witness. I am so scared to get too hopeful. I can only imagine how the Holloway family must feel. I am trying my hardest to catch up, with everything, even reading thru Simian/Shango threads. Sometimes I am wholey confused, others I am just in awe of all of you!

I also wanted to point out about the A&E show mentioned earlier, Big Spender. I wanted to set my DVR to record the show but couldn't find it at first. For anyone looking, it is titled, "What Happened to Natalie Holloway" Thursday at 11pm EST. (And yes, Natalee is spelled incorrectly in the title).

It seems to me that what Aruba responds to the most is American media coverage. I hope that some, all, any of the media outlets will report of this new witness and invite Jossy to discuss. They (Aruba and the many many crooked hearted law manipulating *explicatives*) seem to get quite nervous when American Media puts on pressure.

You all are just amazing people, I cannot express that enough.
Justice for Natalee at any cost

[texasmom]

Welcome to Scared Monkeys, Roxibalboa! 

[BUCKSHOT]

A good question would be when the witness that saw Deepak and Joran at the other area near the raquet club in the car.....what color shirt was Joran wearing then?  he saw him enough to identify him...so he should be able to tell us what color shirt he was wearing or if it was a t-shirt compared to a collared shirt.  Of course, we will never know now...since he has been discredited by the PTB. 

Think about who discredited the witnesses...

Gardener: When I was walking by the RacquetClub at about 230-300am, there was a car in the driveway, and as I passed, 3-4 males all hid/ducked so as to hide their faces...
ALE: Our records show you are an illegal resident of Aruba. You are going to be arrested and deported. We are on the way to lock you up and hand you over to customs agents.

Jogger: While I was out for my after hours jog, I spotted some pretty unusual stuff. Can I come to the station to discuss it further with you? It might have something to do with that missing American girl on the television.
ALE: No, not right now, we are busy. We will call you back later if we need you.. Quit jogging so late at night.

Woman(near RacquetClub): I saw several boys/men near the RacquetClub, going in and out near the time that girl went missing. They looked like they were searching for something.. They were in a silver car with these unusual tail light covers, like the ones I saw on TV.
ALE: Maam, thanks for the call. But, if you want you and your family to reamin safe, we suggest you to hang up the phone immediately and go on about your business.

Another witness: I can not hold this in any longer. It has been eating away at my conscience. I helped bury a blonde American girl with a tarp and white Pickup in a shallow grave with two other people. One of the guys worked at the Marriott.
ALE: You are crazy in the head. We are sending an abulance to your house right now. You clearly belong locked up in a mental hospital..

MountainBrook student: I am a student that was with Natalee on our senior trip to Aruba. On the last night we were in Aruba, we saw Joran Van der Sloot and his dad McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. It seems very suspicious to me. Could you please check into it.
ALE: You probably had a case of mistaken identity since you were probably under the efeects of alcohol. Joran was home on his computer studying for his exams and his dad was home asleep. Thanks for the call, though.

Kalpoe neighbor: The other night, I saw my neighbors, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, thoroughly washing out their vehicle, at a location beside their home, which was unusual.
ALE: We already spoke to them about it. They had ants all over their floorboards and, additionally, someone left a chocolate candy bar in their back seat and it melted. You know Deepak...very meticulous with his car...He was up all not using various cleaning solutions to get rid off those pesky ants and melted chocolate bar.

Dump witness: I saw a white pick-up truck at the dump the other day. There were several men, whom I think I recognized on TV. One guy was giving orders and the others were carrying something that looked like a dead body near a kiddie pool. Can I at least give you the license plate number of the vhicle for you to check out.
ALE: I do not have paper handy...Hold on...I can write it on this Frosted Flakes box..

Pond witness: I woke up in the middle of the night and saw a tall young man. He appeared to be missing a shoe. He was out of breath from walking and running and was heavily covered in mud. Then I saw a red jeep come by and pick him up. The jeep drove very, very slowly in the area, almost like they had dropped something by mistake. It seemed very suspicious to me..
ALE: It was probably just some teenagers up all night partying. We recommend that you start taking sleeping pills before you go to bed so you get a good night sleep in the future...

Did ALE really check out witness stories, before discrediting them...
OR
Did ALE discredit the witnesses, before even checking out their stories...

YOU BE THE JUDGE...
I THINK WE ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS RHETORICAL QUESTION...
 

[klaasend]

Wow, it worked.  That's the first time I tried it.


The shirts look to be the same pattern, but not the same shirt.

On the left sleeve, the horizontal stripe is at the bottom of the sleeve (in the crowd photo.)

On the left sleeve, the horizontal stripe is not visible at the bottom of the sleeve (in the detention photo.)

If it is the same pattern, it isn't the same shirt but looks very, very close. 

The CnC shirt does look the same as the detention shirt.  Most likely is the same.

[klaasend]

Thanks, Scared Monkeys, for approving my registration.

Thanks to all, who obviously will never stop the fight. I read everything, watched everything for a long time, years. Then just recently I had a dream that there was something new happening in the case. That morning I came to this site immediatly. You were all talking about the new witness. I am so scared to get too hopeful. I can only imagine how the Holloway family must feel. I am trying my hardest to catch up, with everything, even reading thru Simian/Shango threads. Sometimes I am wholey confused, others I am just in awe of all of you!

I also wanted to point out about the A&E show mentioned earlier, Big Spender. I wanted to set my DVR to record the show but couldn't find it at first. For anyone looking, it is titled, "What Happened to Natalie Holloway" Thursday at 11pm EST. (And yes, Natalee is spelled incorrectly in the title).

It seems to me that what Aruba responds to the most is American media coverage. I hope that some, all, any of the media outlets will report of this new witness and invite Jossy to discuss. They (Aruba and the many many crooked hearted law manipulating *explicatives*) seem to get quite nervous when American Media puts on pressure.

You all are just amazing people, I cannot express that enough.
Justice for Natalee at any cost

Welcome Roxi!

[Lala'sMom]

A good question would be when the witness that saw Deepak and Joran at the other area near the raquet club in the car.....what color shirt was Joran wearing then?  he saw him enough to identify him...so he should be able to tell us what color shirt he was wearing or if it was a t-shirt compared to a collared shirt.  Of course, we will never know now...since he has been discredited by the PTB. 

Think about who discredited the witnesses...

Gardener: When I was walking by the RacquetClub at about 230-300am, there was a car in the driveway, and as I passed, 3-4 males all hid/ducked so as to hide their faces...
ALE: Our records show you are an illegal resident of Aruba. You are going to be arrested and deported. We are on the way to lock you up and hand you over to customs agents.

Jogger: While I was out for my after hours jog, I spotted some pretty unusual stuff. Can I come to the station to discuss it further with you? It might have something to do with that missing American girl on the television.
ALE: No, not right now, we are busy. We will call you back later if we need you.. Quit jogging so late at night.

Woman(near RacquetClub): I saw several boys/men near the RacquetClub, going in and out near the time that girl went missing. They looked like they were searching for something.. They were in a silver car with these unusual tail light covers, like the ones I saw on TV.
ALE: Maam, thanks for the call. But, if you want you and your family to reamin safe, we suggest you to hang up the phone immediately and go on about your business.

Another witness: I can not hold this in any longer. It has been eating away at my conscience. I helped bury a blonde American girl with a tarp and white Pickup in a shallow grave with two other people. One of the guys worked at the Marriott.
ALE: You are crazy in the head. We are sending an abulance to your house right now. You clearly belong locked up in a mental hospital..

MountainBrook student: I am a student that was with Natalee on our senior trip to Aruba. On the last night we were in Aruba, we saw Joran Van der Sloot and his dad McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. It seems very suspicious to me. Could you please check into it.
ALE: You probably had a case of mistaken identity since you were probably under the efeects of alcohol. Joran was home on his computer studying for his exams and his dad was home asleep. Thanks for the call, though.

Kalpoe neighbor: The other night, I saw my neighbors, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, thoroughly washing out their vehicle, at a location beside their home, which was unusual.
ALE: We already spoke to them about it. They had ants all over their floorboards and, additionally, someone left a chocolate candy bar in their back seat and it melted. You know Deepak...very meticulous with his car...He was up all not using various cleaning solutions to get rid off those pesky ants and melted chocolate bar.

Dump witness: I saw a white pick-up truck at the dump the other day. There were several men, whom I think I recognized on TV. One guy was giving orders and the others were carrying something that looked like a dead body near a kiddie pool. Can I at least give you the license plate number of the vhicle for you to check out.
ALE: I do not have paper handy...Hold on...I can write it on this Frosted Flakes box..

Pond witness: I woke up in the middle of the night and saw a tall young man. He appeared to be missing a shoe. He was out of breath from walking and running and was heavily covered in mud. Then I saw a red jeep come by and pick him up. The jeep drove very, very slowly in the area, almost like they had dropped something by mistake. It seemed very suspicious to me..
ALE: It was probably just some teenagers up all night partying. We recommend that you start taking sleeping pills before you go to bed so you get a good night sleep in the future...

Did ALE really check out witness stories, before discrediting them...
OR
Did ALE discredit the witnesses, before even checking out their stories...

YOU BE THE JUDGE...
I THINK WE ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS RHETORICAL QUESTION...
 

It will take something really big....and I do mean big to get any movement in this case now. Mos out? Who's in?  Are they any better?  Are they Dutch?  Are they concerned about their job?  Why are we to think anything different will happen?  The entire bunch must be removed in Aruba before we can make any headway.  I am hoping that is just what is going on at this time...but as I have said...I won't get my hopes up just yet...I am waiting for the next SHOE to fall...let's hope it's soon.  The fact that the American media is not latching on to any of this stuff has me worried.  Our own election has bumped all the other things off the radar.  Then again...maybe that is how they want to play it this time...low...under the radar...so the PTB can't find out anything.  I suspect, and I have good reason to, that they are doing all they can at this point trying to find out what certain people know...that makes me LOL  because it will take a one up on them to get anything accomplished.

[Lala'sMom]

A good question would be when the witness that saw Deepak and Joran at the other area near the raquet club in the car.....what color shirt was Joran wearing then?  he saw him enough to identify him...so he should be able to tell us what color shirt he was wearing or if it was a t-shirt compared to a collared shirt.  Of course, we will never know now...since he has been discredited by the PTB. 

Think about who discredited the witnesses...

Gardener: When I was walking by the RacquetClub at about 230-300am, there was a car in the driveway, and as I passed, 3-4 males all hid/ducked so as to hide their faces...
ALE: Our records show you are an illegal resident of Aruba. You are going to be arrested and deported. We are on the way to lock you up and hand you over to customs agents.

Jogger: While I was out for my after hours jog, I spotted some pretty unusual stuff. Can I come to the station to discuss it further with you? It might have something to do with that missing American girl on the television.
ALE: No, not right now, we are busy. We will call you back later if we need you.. Quit jogging so late at night.

Woman(near RacquetClub): I saw several boys/men near the RacquetClub, going in and out near the time that girl went missing. They looked like they were searching for something.. They were in a silver car with these unusual tail light covers, like the ones I saw on TV.
ALE: Maam, thanks for the call. But, if you want you and your family to reamin safe, we suggest you to hang up the phone immediately and go on about your business.

Another witness: I can not hold this in any longer. It has been eating away at my conscience. I helped bury a blonde American girl with a tarp and white Pickup in a shallow grave with two other people. One of the guys worked at the Marriott.
ALE: You are crazy in the head. We are sending an abulance to your house right now. You clearly belong locked up in a mental hospital..

MountainBrook student: I am a student that was with Natalee on our senior trip to Aruba. On the last night we were in Aruba, we saw Joran Van der Sloot and his dad McDonalds at 3a.m. I assume the dad has a job and would have to be at work the next day. It seems very suspicious to me. Could you please check into it.
ALE: You probably had a case of mistaken identity since you were probably under the efeects of alcohol. Joran was home on his computer studying for his exams and his dad was home asleep. Thanks for the call, though.

Kalpoe neighbor: The other night, I saw my neighbors, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, thoroughly washing out their vehicle, at a location beside their home, which was unusual.
ALE: We already spoke to them about it. They had ants all over their floorboards and, additionally, someone left a chocolate candy bar in their back seat and it melted. You know Deepak...very meticulous with his car...He was up all not using various cleaning solutions to get rid off those pesky ants and melted chocolate bar.

Dump witness: I saw a white pick-up truck at the dump the other day. There were several men, whom I think I recognized on TV. One guy was giving orders and the others were carrying something that looked like a dead body near a kiddie pool. Can I at least give you the license plate number of the vhicle for you to check out.
ALE: I do not have paper handy...Hold on...I can write it on this Frosted Flakes box..

Pond witness: I woke up in the middle of the night and saw a tall young man. He appeared to be missing a shoe. He was out of breath from walking and running and was heavily covered in mud. Then I saw a red jeep come by and pick him up. The jeep drove very, very slowly in the area, almost like they had dropped something by mistake. It seemed very suspicious to me..
ALE: It was probably just some teenagers up all night partying. We recommend that you start taking sleeping pills before you go to bed so you get a good night sleep in the future...

Did ALE really check out witness stories, before discrediting them...
OR
Did ALE discredit the witnesses, before even checking out their stories...

YOU BE THE JUDGE...
I THINK WE ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER TO THIS RHETORICAL QUESTION...
 

Now, tell me where these witness are now?  I think maybe one of them or even two or three are actually MIA at this point. 

[Ono]

If you go back to some of the old old cemetaries, here, they actually used carvings of lambs for a babys grave.  The graves in Aruba all seem to have Crosses and the like above them.  Do you think they would put an actual lamb or just their meaning of the word lamb???

Hi Always1~!   The lamb symbol stands for Christ Jesus.
 
" The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said,  "Behold!  The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! "   JOHN, Chapter I, verse 29, King James Version of the Bible. 

Agnus Dei :  Lamb of God.

[always 1]

If you go back to some of the old old cemetaries, here, they actually used carvings of lambs for a babys grave.  The graves in Aruba all seem to have Crosses and the like above them.  Do you think they would put an actual lamb or just their meaning of the word lamb???

Hi Always1~!   The lamb symbol stands for Christ Jesus.
 
" The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said,  "Behold!  The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! "   JOHN, Chapter I, verse 29, King James Version of the Bible. 

Agnus Dei :  Lamb of God.

I know, my Bible has so many ribbons, it looks like a boquet, but thank you for the verse, it's pretty.