Natalee Case Discussion #769 9/15/08 through 9/20/08

[MumInOhio]

Johan…Tried to copy…too hard ro follow the quotes…Please read Pages 7 to 9 Here


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2733.120


Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #2
« Reply #132 on: March 26, 2008, 04:43:53 AM »Caps


This from Shango thread 4

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg391246#msg391246

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4
« Reply #185 on: June 19, 2008, 01:35:05 PM »

Quote from: Silverfox on June 16, 2008, 05:14:50 AM
Lala's

Natalee was taken to an "event"

It all makes sense...

All those names who were floated out there and interrogated were interrogated because they were in attendance at the "event" ... No other explanation really fits...  The reason J2K become the primaries is because they were the last ones seen with her by the general public -- but the insiders?  Well, That entire ordeal....

Remember, "too many people would be hurt if the truth comes out?" Remember that?  That is because too many people were in attendance and actually know what happened.... from the very beginning -- which is why this cover-up is so widespread... too many fingers in the pie, relatives, connections -- from the Oduber boy to the Dompig boy etc., etc....

The reason all of us are spinning around from name to name is because all of us were correct in one form or another -- all these guys were involved and the 'adults" -- the parents had to be the ones to cover it up -- or they all fall, child/parent, child/parent.... etc...etc....

This is MUCH BIGGER than we ever imagined....


Quote from: MumInOhio on June 16, 2008, 06:41:38 AM

I agree Silverfox…and they had 10 days to put it all in place….and this is why I think Joran is untouchable...mispelt names, mixed up names, initials, addresses, addresses that don’t exist, buildings that weren’t built, maybe even fake pictures and tickle sites….from Aruba to Florida…what a tangled web!!!

I was going to post this when I saw your post….Take some Tylenol Lala’s….remembering a post that Caps made a while back about Freddy Alexander Zedan-Arambatzis Arends….

Freddy – Frederick Arends or Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges

Alexander – Gottenbos

Zedan – ? -still working on it?

Arambatzis – Ernesto

Arends – Max or Frederick


« Reply #185 on: June 19, 2008, 01:35:05 PM »Caps

The order that I have is as follows

Freddy Martina, guy in Kia on some sort of porn/video charges[/color]

Alexander Gottenbos

Zedan ?

Arambatzis Ernesto

Max Arends


Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4 « Reply #186 on: June 19, 2008, 01:51:24 PM » SS   
 
LaLa's - So, does this mean that Freddy's real name is Freddy Martina?
 

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4 « Reply #190 on: June 19, 2008, 02:39:51 PM » Lala’s
   
 
Quote from: SS on June 19, 2008, 01:51:24 PM
LaLa's - So, does this mean that Freddy's real name is Freddy Martina?
 
Quote Lala's
According to that beach tennis tournament that Joran and Freddy participated in last year or so...Freddy insisted they refer to him as Freddy Zedan.  In the PVs he is referred to as Zedan...even though the name Abrambatsiz was used by the media and ALE at one time.  Ernesto uses that last name and if Freddy was not a Zedan until he was told to stop using his brother/step-brother's name then there is a reason. Caps told Mum and myself there was no Zedans in Aruba.  Well that opened a whole new can of worms for us and we began digging.  Mum along with some our most intelligent monkeys have done really outstanding work tracking this stuff down.  They deserve kudos for all this work. My point is Ernesto is involved in all manner of shady dealings in Miami/North Bay Village.  Remember that place...North Bay Village?  That is the location of an address of Ernesto's as provided to us by Hotping that has since been found to not have been Ernesto's address but the future location of a set of expensive apartments.  As I understand it (please correct me monkeys if I have this wrong)  was not built when Ernesto used that address.  It's just more of the things that make you go hmmmmmm.


http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2886.msg393424#msg393424

Re: SHANGO/SIMIAN - who are they and what did they know? #4 « Reply #421 on: June 25, 2008, 07:44:52 PM  SS»   
 
Thanks VMS!  Karen Martina is now on MySpace as Paulina in Curacao.  Curacao would make sense.  I found all of those obituaries last week from Curacao that named Wilfred Martina who is the man that we learned was the father of Freddy Martina.  There were a few of the regular Arubans, but many of the faces were new.  Valentijn is one of her friends.

http://www.myspace.com/karenmartina

[MumInOhio]

Johan...From Joran's book re Karen Martina

CHAPTER 5 – GIRLFRIENDS

page 3:

during that time Joran also met Karen. Koen and he went to watch the baseball world series at this girls house, they made a bet and Karen won that bet and wanted to go with Joran to the movies.
-   
page 4:

- nothing happened during the movie. Karen knew he was going steady. He also knew that but it did not stop him kissing her at the end of the movie. The text messaged for a long time, they emailed for a long time and then she started writing him love-letters. She fell in love with him, he did not fall in love with her but they did have sex together and decided to not tell Melody about this. In this manner Joran could do them both.

during a trip with a party bus (decorated bus with drinks and loud music that drives around the island) the whole mess came to a head. Both Melody and Karen were on the bus and when Joran saw David and Karen heavily kissing he confronted his friend and after some words had fallen it ended up in a fight. Joran thought David had done it to get back at him for stealing Melody from David and that Karen did it to make Joran jealous. Melody had been told by Karen that she and Joran were getting it on but Melody did not believe it. Most of Joran's friends however knew about his affair with Karen.

- In hindsight Joran says he should have let things go before it got into a fight, that he should have shut the hell up and he would have been free of Karen.
page 5:

- Melody did not understand the fight, Karen cried and walked over to me after the fight and not to David, that was the worst of it all.

- Karen demanded that Joran would dump Melody but Joran was in love, he did not want to. Karen threatened she would take action otherwise.

- then Karen flipped. She and Melody went to the same school. Karen got into Melody's face and confronted her. When Joran picked Melody up from school that day and she told him that Karen had said they had been sleeping together.

- Joran took Melody to see Karen and acted all innocent and said "why the shit would you say something like that" to Karen. Karen and I swore not to tell and she broke that promise. Joran kept denying denying denying.
-   
-   Melody believed Karen however, as Joran said, Melody knew when he was lying

page 6:

Joran was angry at Karen even though he was to blame too. He wanted nothing to do with her anymore and he made that clear to her. But somehow they still kept meeting each other. She would come to his door with "gifts" and still wanted to be with him, well, what is a boy to do then if that is the situation.

- Soon after splitting with Melody I got a new girlfriend and dumped Karen proper, she then went on to be David's girlfriend

- David remained a good friend and later we laughed loudly at what had happened


Johan..."Only David left the Den alive"

[Jonathan45]

The documentary showed me again that the 'beachscenario' and all theories that have been connected to it, are total crap.
From day 1 Joran's behaviour contradicts this lying 'beachalibi'.
Behaviour is indivisible.

Joran's appartment was the crime scene.
Paulus wasn't at home that night till he came back at around 4.00am.
Deepak and Satish dropped the couple of at the VDSresidence around 1.40am and drove back to hooiberg [15 minutes drive].
Deepak logged on to his computer around 2.00am.

This 'new' witness is a liar.
Paulus wasn't involved in the disappearing of Natalee Holloway.
He had to cover up his own whereabouts that night.
And Joran and Valentijn knew where he was.
In a casino.

By now you all should know that psychology is a funny fair.
Joran loves it and as he stated:

'It doesn't matter anymore what I am saying but what I am saying is the truth'.

[MumInOhio]

The documentary showed me again that the 'beachscenario' and all theories that have been connected to it, are total crap.
From day 1 Joran's behaviour contradicts this lying 'beachalibi'.
Behaviour is indivisible.

Joran's appartment was the crime scene.
Paulus wasn't at home that night till he came back at around 4.00am.
Deepak and Satish dropped the couple of at the VDSresidence around 1.40am and drove back to hooiberg [15 minutes drive].
Deepak logged on to his computer around 2.00am.

This 'new' witness is a liar.
Paulus wasn't involved in the disappearing of Natalee Holloway.
He had to cover up his own whereabouts that night.
And Joran and Valentijn knew where he was.
In a casino.

By now you all should know that psychology is a funny fair.
Joran loves it and as he stated:

'It doesn't matter anymore what I am saying but what I am saying is the truth'.

Good Morning Jonathan45....I am not ready to give up on the van der Sloot's house as the crime scene. From Joran's book, Val left Aruba on June 15th., do you happen to know if that date sounds right? TIA

BTW...the documentary was on this morning at 4AM and will air again on Sunday at 4PM.

[Jonathan45]

Joran buried Natalee and her remains, as he stated himself, can be found.
So I am still waiting for the ALE to follow their first impression at the time that the VDSresidence was the crimescene.

Maybe Johan555 can put a map image of the area. Close to the VDShome [ just around the corner is a large open space with what seems to be a fence around it.
They never searched there or other spots nearby. Private property I guess.
So is there someone who can tell us what was or is going on there ?
It is a possible burial spot.

As Joran stated several times: 'That night I became a man.'

[Jonathan45]

@MuminOhio

You were right, on June 15,2005 Vatentijn and Sebastian went to the States. It was the day the ALE want to search the VDShome. Ben King and his wife were present at the time.

[Jonathan45]

Paulus is also a smart guy by sending the key witness [involved in two alibi's] in this unsolved case away at a crucial moment.


 

[SS]

I wasn't able to watch the program last night, but you all seem to have done a great job of evaulating it.  I can't wait to see the screen shot of Mama Arambatzis.  There are Zedans on Aruba!  I believe that Natasha Zedan is Freddy's sister.  She is a bartender at the Marriott.  We have a photograph of her winning a bartender's award.  There is also a photograph of Freddy and Natasha with a man who I believe is their father.  I have also found connections in Venezuela that show the Zedans and Chemalys are related to each other.  John Chemaly and Freddy are probably cousins.  From what we found, Freddy Zedan and Ernesto Arambatzis are only connected by the marriage of Freddy's mother and Ernesto's father.   It appears that Sasha is a half-sister to both Freddy and Ernesto.  It could be possible that Karen Martina is also related to Freddy.  She could be a sister, cousin, or half-sister.  I believe that Freddy's father's last name was Zedan-Martina.  He married Lillian Regina Rodrigues-Albert (Freddy's mother).  That would make Freddy's correct name Freddy Alexander Zedan-Martina-Rodriguez.  The Arambtazis name didn't appear until Lillian's second marriage to Robby Gerardus Arambatzis-Perez, father of Ernesto.   Sasha is the child from the marriage of Robby and Lillian.  Freddy is not an Arambatzis.

[MumInOhio]

I wasn't able to watch the program last night, but you all seem to have done a great job of evaulating it.  I can't wait to see the screen shot of Mama Arambatzis.  There are Zedans on Aruba!  I believe that Natasha Zedan is Freddy's sister.  She is a bartender at the Marriott.  We have a photograph of her winning a bartender's award.  There is also a photograph of Freddy and Natasha with a man who I believe is their father.  I have also found connections in Venezuela that show the Zedans and Chemalys are related to each other.  John Chemaly and Freddy are probably cousins.  From what we found, Freddy Zedan and Ernesto Arambatzis are only connected by the marriage of Freddy's mother and Ernesto's father.   It appears that Sasha is a half-sister to both Freddy and Ernesto.  It could be possible that Karen Martina is also related to Freddy.  She could be a sister, cousin, or half-sister.  I believe that Freddy's father's last name was Zedan-Martina.  He married Lillian Regina Rodrigues-Albert (Freddy's mother).  That would make Freddy's correct name Freddy Alexander Zedan-Martina-Rodriguez.  The Arambtazis name didn't appear until Lillian's second marriage to Robby Gerardus Arambatzis-Perez, father of Ernesto.   Sasha is the child from the marriage of Robby and Lillian.  Freddy is not an Arambatzis.

Good Morning SS...You just reminded me...I have some more Arambatzis/Zedan and another name I need to catch up with you on! Tangled web, but very interesting...Will take me a bit to get it all together and then I will get it all to you.

Been pretty quiet on the Arambatzis front lately...about time we drew them all out of their holes again...

Show replays 4PM Sunday, but Carpe posted the Youtubes already a page or two back.  I am waiting for the screen shots as I don't need a time-out on top of my dish problems...The joys of living in the sticks...LOL

[wreck]

I've tried to put how I feel about what I saw tonight down here to share but it's just not possible.  I'm mad, I'm sad, and I'm disgusted.  I don't know any other way to put it except in the words of one of my all time favorite monkeys.

I hate them all !!!!

I can only imagine how Beth and Dave felt after sitting down with Hans Mos for a couple of hours...I was ready to kill him after what might have been a minute.  He makes me furious!  Mos seems far more concerned with how ARUBA has been hurt by all of this, than solving the senseless murder of an innocent 18 year old American girl. 

Very discouraging to know that any witness will have to deal with him. 

And they found Aruba's version of "Radio" to head up the investigation!  Lord, help us!
 
 

That's a great description of "Dolf"!!!     

[RoxiBalboa]

gm Monkeys.
I too am really glad to have any coverage on television to try to keep this case alive. But the impression I came away with after watching last night is "Puff Piece". This is what the show said was the first time Richardson has spoken about the case. (you monkeys would know if that is correct). But I just felt like they tried to make Richardson and Mos look good, with some Cohen spin in there as well. It angered me. I sat there at end feeling more sad, frustrated, angry, and felt like the show did more to try to make these monsters look like competent caring humans, when we all know....grrrrr....its just so frustrating.

side note: does anyone know if when CLW said "watch the 8th" did he mean watch the 8ball, or did he mean be alert on the 8th of October?

[wreck]

They had the Oceanographer on from Florida State  -- he was opining for "sophisticated" water search equipment. UHHHHH -- absolutely no mention of The Persistence for 4 months?!?!?

[vms]

Good morning Mum,

Same lady I was wondering about before?

[MumInOhio]

gm Monkeys.
I too am really glad to have any coverage on television to try to keep this case alive. But the impression I came away with after watching last night is "Puff Piece". This is what the show said was the first time Richardson has spoken about the case. (you monkeys would know if that is correct). But I just felt like they tried to make Richardson and Mos look good, with some Cohen spin in there as well. It angered me. I sat there at end feeling more sad, frustrated, angry, and felt like the show did more to try to make these monsters look like competent caring humans, when we all know....grrrrr....its just so frustrating.

side note: does anyone know if when CLW said "watch the 8th" did he mean watch the 8ball, or did he mean be alert on the 8th of October?

Good Morning and Welcome...Here is what Caps posted last week...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=3332.msg445258#msg445258

Quote
Well A singing war is a lost war...the only thing that Dirtyhand is afraid of is the WORLDPRESS. That is his weakest link.

The stones are rolling and by the 8th we will know...a bit patient

[MumInOhio]

Good morning Mum,

Same lady I was wondering about before?

Good Morning vms...Boy have you been missed...

Sorry...I am still no more help than I was the last time around...LOL

[Rob]

thanks vms for grabbing that shot

[MumInOhio]

thanks vms for grabbing that shot

Good Morning Rob...I tried to wake you in the wee hours...Us Oldies tend to sleep pretty soundly, sometimes...

[vms]

I know, Mum. I still say for sure either. 
Hope all is back to normal for you!

YW, Rob. I know I have seen a better video of Joran's welcome home gathering, I just haven't run across it again yet. I wonder if someone could get an actual copy of the pic from Jossy? I think that's where it came from in the A&E video...

[MumInOhio]

I know, Mum. I still say for sure either. 
Hope all is back to normal for you!

YW, Rob. I know I have seen a better video of Joran's welcome home gathering, I just haven't run across it again yet. I wonder if someone could get an actual copy of the pic from Jossy? I think that's where it came from in the A&E video...

Some of us have been searching for the actual video from that day, I believe it was Fox.  I would like to get some more looks at Fernando Vianna...and the blonde, probably Ms Akers.

New dish tomorrow, hope this one lasts till then, all else is as chaotic as normal...thanks

[MumInOhio]

Nut...Are you here?...I need a mod, please...TIA