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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #769 9/15/08 through 9/20/08  (Read 297888 times)
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Rob
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« Reply #800 on: September 19, 2008, 12:34:42 AM »

I think it might be someone's mother we have looked for forever..is that the same person you are talking about? I hope so.

I think there is a shot there that SS has been looking form in the "welcome Joran home" footage. I think they might have caught a woman she is looking for in the background... Freddy's mom.

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Truth, Justice and the American Way.

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~ livin' the life I was born to live - givin' it all I've got to give ~
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« Reply #801 on: September 19, 2008, 12:38:43 AM »

I'm still shocked about Dolf Richardson. I guess I never really heard him before. It is like they put a mentally challenged puppet as their Commissioner of Police. Just how manipulable is this clown?????
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yapperz1
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« Reply #802 on: September 19, 2008, 12:38:54 AM »

Hiya Monkeys. Interesting program & I am as po'd now as I was over 3 years ago.

Lalas posted: <snip> Only Joran knows why he called his Dad in the middle of the night.

He called paulypuss to find out why Natalee hadn't been brought back to the drop off point as had been agreed on. Yes I still wonder about my theory of the dirty old men's club.
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I STAND WITH THE GIRL, NATALEE HOLLOWAY

ARUBA
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #803 on: September 19, 2008, 12:51:35 AM »

I've tried to put how I feel about what I saw tonight down here to share but it's just not possible.  I'm mad, I'm sad, and I'm disgusted.  I don't know any other way to put it except in the words of one of my all time favorite monkeys.

I hate them all !!!!

I can only imagine how Beth and Dave felt after sitting down with Hans Mos for a couple of hours...I was ready to kill him after what might have been a minute.  He makes me furious!  Mos seems far more concerned with how ARUBA has been hurt by all of this, than solving the senseless murder of an innocent 18 year old American girl. 

Very discouraging to know that any witness will have to deal with him. 

And they found Aruba's version of "Radio" to head up the investigation!  Lord, help us!
 
 
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
cajun miracle
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« Reply #804 on: September 19, 2008, 01:03:14 AM »

I've tried to put how I feel about what I saw tonight down here to share but it's just not possible.  I'm mad, I'm sad, and I'm disgusted.  I don't know any other way to put it except in the words of one of my all time favorite monkeys.

I hate them all !!!!

I can only imagine how Beth and Dave felt after sitting down with Hans Mos for a couple of hours...I was ready to kill him after what might have been a minute.  He makes me furious!  Mos seems far more concerned with how ARUBA has been hurt by all of this, than solving the senseless murder of an innocent 18 year old American girl. 

Very discouraging to know that any witness will have to deal with him. 

And they found Aruba's version of "Radio" to head up the investigation!  Lord, help us!
 
 

Texas Mom, I share all of those feelings with you. I've followed this case from the beginning and when the media quit, I found sites that could give me more info. With children of my own, this is all BS and if my sons did anything like this I would have turned them in. As a mother of daughters also, I feel for Beth and Dave and I grieve for them. My faith holds me that the truth will be told.
Hope that you are doing well from the storm. My hubby has been helping with the ER and rescues in Texas. It's been a long 2 weeks for all of us.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #805 on: September 19, 2008, 02:01:31 AM »

For me this 'new' witness isn't a 'reliable' one until we find out the exact date, when he came forward in 2007. His 'motive' to become a witness in this case  after two years is crap.
I placed him in the greyzone cause of Paulus role.

Some important questions ?

 Could Paulus if he was in the HI Excelsior casino that Sundayevening, also later on have been in the Wyndhamhotel casino the night Natalee vanished after he brought Joran back home to babysit ?
On Tuesdayafternoon Paulus was in the lobby of the HI. Beth saw him there.
Was he only checking Joran's lying alibi [ dead video] or also his own [footage] alibi ?
Could there be another until now 'anonymous' casino player in the Excelsior or the Wyndham or the Radisson casino, who is also working for the Justice department on Aruba ?
Dirty Hand perhaps ? Or Ben Vocking, Paulus friend, who had also a steering role on crucial moments [[ search VDSresidence]  ? Or judge de Wit ? Or .... ?



Thanks Jonathon45...thought I had missed something in reading back 50 pages!

Checked my notes and only came up with what was posted early in the last thread, which was not accurate according to Diario.

So this witness was found in 2007...By Whom?....and how did he get to Jossy I wonder?

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #806 on: September 19, 2008, 02:12:20 AM »

Well...well...well...after seeing the A&E story tonight I have concluded that Mos is a useless person placed in the right location to continue to do nothing...Dolf Richardson has not read all those pages and pages and pages of information because there is nothing he cares to find out...I still can't stand Cohen...that's all I will say about him...I would get banned for sure....and still the perps are out and living the life and Natalee is still missing. 

I did however see somethings in the video I would like to see again...I noticed a person that Mum, SS, and I have been looking for if I am correct...but I need to see it all again...also I am sure now that one reason they can't solve this case is because they won't stop blaming everyone but the guilty!!

I think I am getting mad all over again.  I want to take that video apart piece by piece...is anyone else interested?

Yes, I want to as well.  I may not be able to start tonight though 

Well You know I can't screen capture anything...but there was a woman I want a shot of to study if you don't mind.  I will need to look at it all again...maybe tomorrow...I need to get some sleep.

I think I saw her, so, I'll grab her tomorrow. LOL


Rob...wake up...LOL

Fernando or Freddy's mom??????????


Rob...Re Val...Phone found at the lighthouse this year was said to be his, anita IIRC.  He and Puffin were sent to the US to saty with friends in June 15th.  Kentucky I believe.

From Deepak PV…6/13
To your question whether Joran is able to drive a car, I can say the following.

I know that he is able to drive a car. One time Joran drove my mother's car from the Marriot Hotel to my house. My mother has a Daewoo Nubira modell 1999. He also told me once that he had to drive for his mother, because his mother's foot had been hurting.

To your question what car the parents of Joran drive, I can say the following.

Joran's father has a red jeep and Joran's mother has a dark blue Hyundai jeep.

Satish 6/30
On your question if Joran can drive a car, I can explain to you the following:
I am certain that Joran can drive a car. Joran has in the month of March 2005, driven my mother’s car. Joran drove the car on that day from the parking place at the Marriott hotel to my house in Hooiberg. Then Joran was the only one in the car and he was drunk. (see note below)

On your question if Joran drove the car of its parents, I can explain to you the following:
I have never seen Joran drive the cars of his parents. You must ask Freddy if Joran drove the cars of his parents. The parents of Joran have two cars and they are a dark blue "Hyundai" jeep and a red car of which I now no longer remember what kind.


On your question if I know the name of Joran’s second brother, I can only give you the following answers:
Joran has two (2) younger brothers but I don’t know their names.  I think that Joran’s brother is fifteen (15) years old.

On your question if the fifteen-year-old brother of Joran can drive a car, I cannot answer that question.


On your question who can tell the truth to you, with the exception of Joran, Deepak and I, I can tell you the following:
Freddy is the person Joran confides in and he can tell you the truth.

On your question how often Joran has driven my mother’s car, I will explain the following:
Joran has only driven my mother’s car (1) time. I can say to you that I saw he did it well. I’m not aware of how Joran learned to drive a car.


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MumInOhio
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« Reply #807 on: September 19, 2008, 02:24:39 AM »

Caps...Great work...I am looking at something from October 2006 - Were you in Aruba at that time?   TIA


Johan...Karen Martina...Will find some of the discussions in Shango on her.  Caps couldn't find her, but SS found her in Curacao.

Back after coffee and need spellcheck...LOL
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johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #808 on: September 19, 2008, 02:33:48 AM »

Caps...Great work...I am looking at something from October 2006 - Were you in Aruba at that time?   TIA


Johan...Karen Martina...Will find some of the discussions in Shango on her.  Caps couldn't find her, but SS found her in Curacao.

Back after coffee and need spellcheck...LOL

Oh Karen Martina lives in Curacao at the moment ?
Discussions with who ?
yes please post them here
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
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« Reply #809 on: September 19, 2008, 02:39:35 AM »

What they hve show tonight on A&E is just a recap...It is nice but do not answer anything. Why don't they concentrate on simple question

From all the movies and Articles that I have read, nobody has suggested or even mentions these possible scenarios or places.  But before we go in details, let’s look at what the normal practice is if someone wants to pick up a girl for quickie sex in Aruba.

Note: The Carlos & Charlie night club is called “The Meat Market Place”. It got the name due the amount of hot teens that are willing to have sex after drinking. Most of the victims are Tourist and the motive of operand us is “To get them Drunk and then lure them to an Apartment.
 
The Normal Practice Today:
Normally, if one wants to have sex in Aruba with someone you have pick up at a bar or at a night club, one is left with only some few choices.

The choices are:.
1.   Car
2.   a Hotel
3.   Your own place
4.   Moko 30 Sex Apartment
5.   The WHITEHOUSE which is beside Moko 30,
6.   Matty Apartments

Option-1: high risk and in public are, if cought doing it in public you are in trouble with ALE.
Option-2: Hgh risk and most guests are not alone..they have room mates.
option-3: your own place.  This is possible if you have your own car to bring her back. 
option-4: you pay 50 florin and you will have to park your car outside the apartment and do your thing. but it is not descreet, other will see you car parked there and will talk.
option-5: the ideal place to do it - Nice facility and complete private..but has rules
option-6: The cheap place to do it and sleezy..use most by Escort services and everything goes. No rules.

But when it comes to have discrete and private Sex in Aruba, most people uses the first 5 options. 

Joran said that they went to the Light house and can prove that it is a lie.

The issue about going to the LIGHTHOUSE is the old practice. The Light House or Farro as its name in Papiamento was in the fifties till mid nineties way.  But then the law has changed and everybody knows that if you get trapped by the authorities having sex in a public area you are in deep trouble. So nobody use this practice anymore.

The new practice is to use apartments for a quickie.
Let’s examine where they could have gone after C&C

Option-1: Car = No
Option-2: Hotel = No
Option-3: Joran Apartment = plausable
Option-4: Moko Sex Apartment = plausable
Option-5: The Whitehouse Apartment (beside Moko 30) = Plausable
Option-6: Matty Apartment = Plausable

Now let’s expand these locations with three condition question.
The conditions are TO HAVE SEX and TO MAKE A MOVIE and EASY ACCESSIBLITY

1.   The “to have sex conditions” is that you just left the meat market and is going to score.

2.   The “to Make a Movie condition” is that you want to show that you score with her and that you will win the bed

3.   The “Easy accessibility condition” is that you have to have easy access to the facility to make a movie without the permission of the owner.


if these ALE uses there head they can construct there own logic to solve this case.. They rely to much on wire tap and gossips.  Stupid ALE.

This is a sample of what to come.

Logic: where did they go after they left C&C
Logic: where did they hide the body after she died
logic:  when did they removed her and by who

etc.

the proefs are strings together to get to the right answer.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #810 on: September 19, 2008, 02:48:56 AM »

What they hve show tonight on A&E is just a recap...It is nice but do not answer anything. Why don't they concentrate on simple question

From all the movies and Articles that I have read, nobody has suggested or even mentions these possible scenarios or places.  But before we go in details, let’s look at what the normal practice is if someone wants to pick up a girl for quickie sex in Aruba.

Note: The Carlos & Charlie night club is called “The Meat Market Place”. It got the name due the amount of hot teens that are willing to have sex after drinking. Most of the victims are Tourist and the motive of operand us is “To get them Drunk and then lure them to an Apartment.
 
The Normal Practice Today:
Normally, if one wants to have sex in Aruba with someone you have pick up at a bar or at a night club, one is left with only some few choices.

The choices are:.
1.   Car
2.   a Hotel
3.   Your own place
4.   Moko 30 Sex Apartment
5.   The WHITEHOUSE which is beside Moko 30,
6.   Matty Apartments

Option-1: high risk and in public are, if cought doing it in public you are in trouble with ALE.
Option-2: Hgh risk and most guests are not alone..they have room mates.
option-3: your own place.  This is possible if you have your own car to bring her back. 
option-4: you pay 50 florin and you will have to park your car outside the apartment and do your thing. but it is not descreet, other will see you car parked there and will talk.
option-5: the ideal place to do it - Nice facility and complete private..but has rules
option-6: The cheap place to do it and sleezy..use most by Escort services and everything goes. No rules.

But when it comes to have discrete and private Sex in Aruba, most people uses the first 5 options. 

Joran said that they went to the Light house and can prove that it is a lie.

The issue about going to the LIGHTHOUSE is the old practice. The Light House or Farro as its name in Papiamento was in the fifties till mid nineties way.  But then the law has changed and everybody knows that if you get trapped by the authorities having sex in a public area you are in deep trouble. So nobody use this practice anymore.

The new practice is to use apartments for a quickie.
Let’s examine where they could have gone after C&C

Option-1: Car = No
Option-2: Hotel = No
Option-3: Joran Apartment = plausable
Option-4: Moko Sex Apartment = plausable
Option-5: The Whitehouse Apartment (beside Moko 30) = Plausable
Option-6: Matty Apartment = Plausable

Now let’s expand these locations with three condition question.
The conditions are TO HAVE SEX and TO MAKE A MOVIE and EASY ACCESSIBLITY

1.   The “to have sex conditions” is that you just left the meat market and is going to score.

2.   The “to Make a Movie condition” is that you want to show that you score with her and that you will win the bed

3.   The “Easy accessibility condition” is that you have to have easy access to the facility to make a movie without the permission of the owner.


if these ALE uses there head they can construct there own logic to solve this case.. They rely to much on wire tap and gossips.  Stupid ALE.

This is a sample of what to come.

Logic: where did they go after they left C&C
Logic: where did they hide the body after she died
logic:  when did they removed her and by who

etc.

the proefs are strings together to get to the right answer.

Hi Caps...Been reading my notes and originally you thought Natalee was going to be moved in February- the 3rd.  Now it seems you are sure it was in June 2005.  Can you please share why you changed your mind on this...

Thanks in Advance as always...
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carpe noctem
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« Reply #811 on: September 19, 2008, 02:49:32 AM »

Natalee Holloway Case   -   A&E

9/18/2008

-----------------------------



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O3WiO51CrI


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDFb8R2tkkk


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhN4qs9GgjQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGzF52q9YpQ


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRpJoNzCj_E


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HbBOLLMVco
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For Natalee and Stephany, whatever it takes.

-JUSTICE FOR NATALEE ANN - BOYCOTT ARUBA
------------------
"Don't talk about what you have done or what you are going to do." Thomas Jefferson
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."Thomas Jeff
johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #812 on: September 19, 2008, 02:56:01 AM »

What they hve show tonight on A&E is just a recap...It is nice but do not answer anything. Why don't they concentrate on simple question

From all the movies and Articles that I have read, nobody has suggested or even mentions these possible scenarios or places.  But before we go in details, let’s look at what the normal practice is if someone wants to pick up a girl for quickie sex in Aruba.

Note: The Carlos & Charlie night club is called “The Meat Market Place”. It got the name due the amount of hot teens that are willing to have sex after drinking. Most of the victims are Tourist and the motive of operand us is “To get them Drunk and then lure them to an Apartment.
 
The Normal Practice Today:
Normally, if one wants to have sex in Aruba with someone you have pick up at a bar or at a night club, one is left with only some few choices.

The choices are:.
1.   Car
2.   a Hotel
3.   Your own place
4.   Moko 30 Sex Apartment
5.   The WHITEHOUSE which is beside Moko 30,
6.   Matty Apartments

Option-1: high risk and in public are, if cought doing it in public you are in trouble with ALE.
Option-2: Hgh risk and most guests are not alone..they have room mates.
option-3: your own place.  This is possible if you have your own car to bring her back. 
option-4: you pay 50 florin and you will have to park your car outside the apartment and do your thing. but it is not descreet, other will see you car parked there and will talk.
option-5: the ideal place to do it - Nice facility and complete private..but has rules
option-6: The cheap place to do it and sleezy..use most by Escort services and everything goes. No rules.

But when it comes to have discrete and private Sex in Aruba, most people uses the first 5 options. 

Joran said that they went to the Light house and can prove that it is a lie.

The issue about going to the LIGHTHOUSE is the old practice. The Light House or Farro as its name in Papiamento was in the fifties till mid nineties way.  But then the law has changed and everybody knows that if you get trapped by the authorities having sex in a public area you are in deep trouble. So nobody use this practice anymore.

The new practice is to use apartments for a quickie.
Let’s examine where they could have gone after C&C

Option-1: Car = No
Option-2: Hotel = No
Option-3: Joran Apartment = plausable
Option-4: Moko Sex Apartment = plausable
Option-5: The Whitehouse Apartment (beside Moko 30) = Plausable
Option-6: Matty Apartment = Plausable

Now let’s expand these locations with three condition question.
The conditions are TO HAVE SEX and TO MAKE A MOVIE and EASY ACCESSIBLITY

1.   The “to have sex conditions” is that you just left the meat market and is going to score.

2.   The “to Make a Movie condition” is that you want to show that you score with her and that you will win the bed

3.   The “Easy accessibility condition” is that you have to have easy access to the facility to make a movie without the permission of the owner.


if these ALE uses there head they can construct there own logic to solve this case.. They rely to much on wire tap and gossips.  Stupid ALE.

This is a sample of what to come.

Logic: where did they go after they left C&C
Logic: where did they hide the body after she died
logic:  when did they removed her and by who

etc.

the proefs are strings together to get to the right answer.

zij is de uitbater van de Matt Appt (lillian) en dat is haar man of broer Carlos



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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #813 on: September 19, 2008, 02:57:59 AM »

were are the Moko Sex Apartment Caps ?
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
CapsLockWizard
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« Reply #814 on: September 19, 2008, 03:01:10 AM »

What they hve show tonight on A&E is just a recap...It is nice but do not answer anything. Why don't they concentrate on simple question

From all the movies and Articles that I have read, nobody has suggested or even mentions these possible scenarios or places.  But before we go in details, let’s look at what the normal practice is if someone wants to pick up a girl for quickie sex in Aruba.

Note: The Carlos & Charlie night club is called “The Meat Market Place”. It got the name due the amount of hot teens that are willing to have sex after drinking. Most of the victims are Tourist and the motive of operand us is “To get them Drunk and then lure them to an Apartment.
 
The Normal Practice Today:
Normally, if one wants to have sex in Aruba with someone you have pick up at a bar or at a night club, one is left with only some few choices.

The choices are:.
1.   Car
2.   a Hotel
3.   Your own place
4.   Moko 30 Sex Apartment
5.   The WHITEHOUSE which is beside Moko 30,
6.   Matty Apartments

Option-1: high risk and in public are, if cought doing it in public you are in trouble with ALE.
Option-2: Hgh risk and most guests are not alone..they have room mates.
option-3: your own place.  This is possible if you have your own car to bring her back. 
option-4: you pay 50 florin and you will have to park your car outside the apartment and do your thing. but it is not descreet, other will see you car parked there and will talk.
option-5: the ideal place to do it - Nice facility and complete private..but has rules
option-6: The cheap place to do it and sleezy..use most by Escort services and everything goes. No rules.

But when it comes to have discrete and private Sex in Aruba, most people uses the first 5 options. 

Joran said that they went to the Light house and can prove that it is a lie.

The issue about going to the LIGHTHOUSE is the old practice. The Light House or Farro as its name in Papiamento was in the fifties till mid nineties way.  But then the law has changed and everybody knows that if you get trapped by the authorities having sex in a public area you are in deep trouble. So nobody use this practice anymore.

The new practice is to use apartments for a quickie.
Let’s examine where they could have gone after C&C

Option-1: Car = No
Option-2: Hotel = No
Option-3: Joran Apartment = plausable
Option-4: Moko Sex Apartment = plausable
Option-5: The Whitehouse Apartment (beside Moko 30) = Plausable
Option-6: Matty Apartment = Plausable

Now let’s expand these locations with three condition question.
The conditions are TO HAVE SEX and TO MAKE A MOVIE and EASY ACCESSIBLITY

1.   The “to have sex conditions” is that you just left the meat market and is going to score.

2.   The “to Make a Movie condition” is that you want to show that you score with her and that you will win the bed

3.   The “Easy accessibility condition” is that you have to have easy access to the facility to make a movie without the permission of the owner.


if these ALE uses there head they can construct there own logic to solve this case.. They rely to much on wire tap and gossips.  Stupid ALE.

This is a sample of what to come.

Logic: where did they go after they left C&C
Logic: where did they hide the body after she died
logic:  when did they removed her and by who

etc.

the proefs are strings together to get to the right answer.

Hi Caps...Been reading my notes and originally you thought Natalee was going to be moved in February- the 3rd.  Now it seems you are sure it was in June 2005.  Can you please share why you changed your mind on this...

Thanks in Advance as always...

it was when I solved the XTC DNA peace and was still in the disassemble the Simian, then came shango and then Merian.

but the purson that provide me with that answer was liying and from there I deside to ckeck all posible answer with an .AND. condition and I can see it do not fit. becuase the pond was full of water.

the other thing that came later in my research is the day after at the same time 2:30 am .....is when they removed the body and send to the morgue....then came the "game in town oportunity" on the 6th.

The will be an new OM soon. HANS MOS is just a puppet and a clown without the red nose....do not have power....Dirtyhand is the power.

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« Reply #815 on: September 19, 2008, 03:08:21 AM »

were are the Moko Sex Apartment Caps ?

There is a complex apartment called Moko 30. it is also called the whitehouse appartment

The whitehouse and Moko 30 is on the same large plot...one is 8 apartment where one register at the front desk at entrance and when issue a key you drive into the apartment garage. once in you close the garage door and open the apartment door and you are in an apartment for a quicky.

The Moko 30 section do not have the garage feature so you have to park your car in front with the rest of who else is there in the others apartments.

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johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #816 on: September 19, 2008, 03:13:00 AM »

were are the Moko Sex Apartment Caps ?

There is a complex apartment called Moko 30. it is also called the whitehouse appartment

The whitehouse and Moko 30 is on the same large plot...one is 8 apartment where one register at the front desk at entrance and when issue a key you drive into the apartment garage. once in you close the garage door and open the apartment door and you are in an apartment for a quicky.

The Moko 30 section do not have the garage feature so you have to park your car in front with the rest of who else is there in the others apartments.



is it in noord or oranjestad ?
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
CapsLockWizard
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« Reply #817 on: September 19, 2008, 03:21:03 AM »

were are the Moko Sex Apartment Caps ?

There is a complex apartment called Moko 30. it is also called the whitehouse appartment

The whitehouse and Moko 30 is on the same large plot...one is 8 apartment where one register at the front desk at entrance and when issue a key you drive into the apartment garage. once in you close the garage door and open the apartment door and you are in an apartment for a quicky.

The Moko 30 section do not have the garage feature so you have to park your car in front with the rest of who else is there in the others apartments.



is it in noord or oranjestad ?
noord
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johan555
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hay welkom here !!!


« Reply #818 on: September 19, 2008, 03:22:14 AM »

I found a secret document about  the law  in aruba and they changed  the law about anonymous witnesses
And who did that? Bob Wit
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Wanneer domme mensen domme dingen beweren, dan moet je ze niet corrigeren, maar glimlachend gelijk geven.

http://www.nataleeholloway.smfnew.com/index.php
MumInOhio
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« Reply #819 on: September 19, 2008, 03:24:28 AM »

Caps…did you see my question as to you being in Aruba in October of 2006? Have something I am looking at for this time period, maybe you can help?

And do you still think Mathew is Shango?…Freemason’s connection???? 

TIA
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