Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #22

[Stacey]

What is the Breaking News Caylee Marie no Dissusion thread about
has something happened

[Dolce]

Has anyone actually read the Zanny the Nanny book all the way through?  I keep remembering everyone saying there is a nut of truth in some of what she says.  I think the defense is the dumb kidnapping, although not sure if they have decided on the apt one or the park one.  The park one makes no sense, because if Zanny was Caylee's nanny, why would she have to attack Casey to take her?  But that's why the chloroform to make that story have some strength.  The only constant in both stories is Zanny.  And remember the Caylee call that never happened when she was telling her about a story she read?  So we have Zanny and books, is there anything in that book that gives any clue on where Caylee might be?  (I'm guessing y'all have been through all of this, but I missed it)

My husband thinks the reason she says that park now is to cover her butt when they find her body..He was not shocked at all to hear last night or friday that that is infact where the bones were found..He said casey needs to place zanny where casey left the body and i believe he just may be right.

We've seen that Casey has created her own imaginary world filled with imaginary people.  I think there may be some merit in looking at the Zanny the Nanny book.  I don't think this is the first time Casey has created imaginary people and events.  It's probably happened all her life.  Children who are abused use imagination and fantasy to escape from reality.  Books help them build their fantasies.  Maybe as a child, Casey longed for someone like a Zanny the Nanny to care for her as she did the twins in the book--lovingly and with imagination and humor.

I agree with both of you.  Books have always been Casey's escape from her reality.   In a statement it was said that Caylee took to Cindy more so than her own mother...which makes me think that Casey was very jealous of the relationship that Caylee had with Cindy that she herself never has had.  In her statement to police she said "My Mother will never forgive me" which makes me think she is always trying to please her mom, as much as she dispises her.  She probably had a lot of hate toward Caylee because here is a child who is only 2 and Casey's mother absolutely adores her, and here Casey has been trying for the 22 years of her life for that same admeration from her mother Cindy. 
She def changed her story to fit the areas that they were searching for Caylee just incase they did actually find Caylee.

The jailor said in Casey's last visit she was a model inmate spending most of her time reading...it her escape from the circumstances surrounding her.  She lives in her head.

[mrsrocko19]

Cindy and George were having marital issues because of infidelity. hmmm. Has the other woman been named? Casey is the other woman... possibly. Yes, incest happens and little secrets sometimes result in murder. It's not so unbelievable. And I think a strong statement is that Caylee was murdered the day after Fathers Day.

I agree.  I do think incest and abuse were a part of the family dynamic.

That is my opinoin to..I really wish the media would find out more about them when they lived in ohio..

[Dolce]

Ok - please do not start attacking me!    I have been reluctant to post this for several reasons.  But a LE, not working the case, said he thought Caylee died by accident.  There is no big conspiracy.  The parents are just stupid and just doing what Baez has told them to do, so Casey can get a fair trial.  When I told him about some of the theories I have read, child sex ring/ porn ring, etc.  He just shock his head, rolled his eyes and laughed.  He last comment was before he left unexpectedly and in a real hurry, was look what Casey has put he parents through.  The media has done a number on the those parents, don't believe everything you read.

I know this to be very true because when I worked for DCF, I worked on a local "high profile" case.  Everything I read in the paper was so inaccurate and exaggerated. Long after my role was over, the daycare worker has found guilty for shaking a baby, but I was never convinced it was her.  Mom of shaken baby, went on a mission to educate parents about shaken baby syndrome, even appeared on Dr. Phil (archives have since been deleted of his web sight). 

Long story short, not too long ago - the mother of the child that got was shaken, was arrested for trying to brutally kill her own mother, her business partner.  It appeared to be premeditated. 

Lastly, if anyone accused my husband or son of incest, I would actually lose control.
I know I would!!  As a mother, I am very protective of my family and would go banannas if protesters were bad mouthing my family, even if my daughter did what Casey did.  I wouldn't lie for her but I would protect her.

I am not defending CA and GA, I think they should of kept ther mouths shut.  I think they have made the situation worse for themselves.  But after much soul searching, I would have probably already have been arrested for assault - and I am in no way - a violent person but I think I would probably take my hurt, anger, grief, frustation out on the world.




I am not a violent person, but I think I would have alot of misplaced anger and would take it out on the rest of the world.  Behind closed doors, I would think and hope Casey is feeling the tension.

I am not defending CA and GA, but I when I out myself in there shoes with the media

mytime -
sorry - accident does not explain anything that has happened. And her chances at a fair trial have been compromised by her own actions.

accident - no jail time.

intentional - life.

that cop is entitled to his opinion, but I'm not buying it.

THIS CASE SAYS INTENTIONAL ALL OVER IT, from top to bottom.

thanks for sharing what you know.

Maybe the cop was using an interrogative "tatic" in presenting that he could be understanding; by giving Casey the opportunity to latch onto to the excuse of "it was an accident".  IMO, it was a means to try to get Casey to confess...but she won't.

I agree here.  He was throwing something out there hoping she would bite at the chance to change her story...knowing fully well that an otopsy of the body would prove what really had happened.  Unfortunately for this cop, Casey too had already thought of that, meaning something bad did happen to Caylee, and it was no accident.

[strayze]

Any information that Cindy has and can't let out is probably information that will be used in Casey's defense.  Why do I think that when this information comes out, that it will go something like this:  Caylee was kidnapped and Casey was told that if she goes to the police that something bad will happen to George, Cindy and/or Lee.  Casey will say that she HAD to lie to the police to save her family from harm (like we would believe that for one second when the woman couldn't manage to shed one tear during those interrogations). 

The WORLD is on to Casey.  I do feel compassion for grandparents in the context of their losing a granddaughter and even for parents in the context of dealing with a "certifiably psychotic" daughter; however, with them having all this knowledge, I don't have compassion for those who would NOT go forward and "do the right thing" (instead of aiding and abetting Miss Casey).  How can they live with themselves or sleep at night (wait...maybe they can't...maybe that's why they are jumping all over folks who let them know that the Anthony's...none of the Anthony's....are fooling anyone.  Truth hurts!!

My 2 cents...

Casey is not psychotic.  She's been evaluated at the jail for that.  She has a personality disorder, and personality disorders are not treatable.  She most likely has sociopathic personality disorder, uncommon for females, but it exists.  Casey will always be this way.  She will have no attachments, no feelings of remorse, or other feelings save for rage.  The prison system is loaded to the gill with sociopathic personality disorders.  That's where they tend to end up.  ///////Thank the good lord for prisons.

IMO - sociopathic is more unorganized and stressed out that Casey is.  Casey is cool, calculated and manipulative, which is more psychotic.  Casey has a disassociative disorder IMO.

Has Casey had episodes of time she cannot account for?  (time that is lost from the memory).  Is a dissociative disorder classified as psychotic?  Does Casey have alternate personalities? 

[mytime]

Ok - please do not start attacking me!    I have been reluctant to post this for several reasons.  But a LE, not working the case, said he thought Caylee died by accident.  There is no big conspiracy.  The parents are just stupid and just doing what Baez has told them to do, so Casey can get a fair trial.  When I told him about some of the theories I have read, child sex ring/ porn ring, etc.  He just shock his head, rolled his eyes and laughed.  He last comment was before he left unexpectedly and in a real hurry, was look what Casey has put he parents through.  The media has done a number on the those parents, don't believe everything you read.

I know this to be very true because when I worked for DCF, I worked on a local "high profile" case.  Everything I read in the paper was so inaccurate and exaggerated. Long after my role was over, the daycare worker has found guilty for shaking a baby, but I was never convinced it was her.  Mom of shaken baby, went on a mission to educate parents about shaken baby syndrome, even appeared on Dr. Phil (archives have since been deleted of his web sight). 

Long story short, not too long ago - the mother of the child that got was shaken, was arrested for trying to brutally kill her own mother, her business partner.  It appeared to be premeditated. 

Lastly, if anyone accused my husband or son of incest, I would actually lose control.
I know I would!!  As a mother, I am very protective of my family and would go banannas if protesters were bad mouthing my family, even if my daughter did what Casey did.  I wouldn't lie for her but I would protect her.

I am not defending CA and GA, I think they should of kept ther mouths shut.  I think they have made the situation worse for themselves.  But after much soul searching, I would have probably already have been arrested for assault - and I am in no way - a violent person but I think I would probably take my hurt, anger, grief, frustation out on the world.

I understand what you are saying BUT I fail to see how the media is offending them in any way.  Most of the time they are reporting facts that we see with our very own eyes.  We can read all the documents for ourselves.  LP was the one who hinted about DNA and being shocking.  The incest stuff came from bloggers.  IMO I think LE has been very close lipped about the entire case, anything more than that is pure speculation. 

Hi Kippy, just one example - where did the media get their info on that Casey did not want her baby?  From the documents, but it was Kio who said that and she didn't even know which Casey was calling her, wouldn't turn over her phone records. ect.  I don't think she was a very reliable source. 

[carpe noctem]

Have you seen this interview with cindy on larry king? Cindy challenges the pizza theory..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gi1W6Aoly3I

Well what are you gonna do now cindy with the info he gives you..lol!

I also find it funny how everytime cindy is interviewed she always says she got a call today..What is up with that??? JMO that she is lying

My favorite George and Cindy lines to date:


I just got a call today, from back in July. -Cindy Anthony  (interview was in late August)


I have to go to Sanford tomorrow, so that is where I'm headed now. -George Anthony

 

It would be a comedy show, if poor little Caylee was still with us!

Bless her soul.

[AZLady]

The jailor said in Casey's last visit she was a model inmate spending most of her time reading...it her escape from the circumstances surrounding her.  She lives in her head.

Yes, and I think the OCSO recognized this fairly quickly.  I would love to see the psych evals about which the judge said he had never seen anything like before.  I do think Baez will attempt to use Casey's childhood abuse and mental and emotional issues in her defense.  He will essentially throw G & C under the bus as lousy parents who created a monster.  This won't get her off, but might lighten her sentence or help her avoid the DP.  It's really all he has.

[Puzzler]

I dunno...maybe just talking out of my piehole here...

None of this would have happened if one person told the TRUTH.

None of this would have happened if one person called LAW ENFORCEMENT.

None of this would have happened if Caylee was a PRIORITY.

It can all end today... if someone told the truth.  Lead LE to Caylee..after all, Caylee is all that matters...no one else matters.

And Cindy kept saying that they have information but cannot let it out, cannot tell the public.  How is that helping to find Caylee.  If she really does have information then tell us so the public can use the info to help find her.  IDK, i guess she was just bullshitting

Any information that Cindy has and can't let out is probably information that will be used in Casey's defense.  Why do I think that when this information comes out, that it will go something like this:  Caylee was kidnapped and Casey was told that if she goes to the police that something bad will happen to George, Cindy and/or Lee.  Casey will say that she HAD to lie to the police to save her family from harm (like we would believe that for one second when the woman couldn't manage to shed one tear during those interrogations). 

The WORLD is on to Casey.  I do feel compassion for grandparents in the context of their losing a granddaughter and even for parents in the context of dealing with a "certifiably psychotic" daughter; however, with them having all this knowledge, I don't have compassion for those who would NOT go forward and "do the right thing" (instead of aiding and abetting Miss Casey).  How can they live with themselves or sleep at night (wait...maybe they can't...maybe that's why they are jumping all over folks who let them know that the Anthony's...none of the Anthony's....are fooling anyone.  Truth hurts!!

My 2 cents...

Casey is not psychotic.  She's been evaluated at the jail for that.  She has a personality disorder, and personality disorders are not treatable.  She most likely has sociopathic personality disorder, uncommon for females, but it exists.  Casey will always be this way.  She will have no attachments, no feelings of remorse, or other feelings save for rage.  The prison system is loaded to the gill with sociopathic personality disorders.  That's where they tend to end up.  ///////Thank the good lord for prisons.

IMO - sociopathic is more unorganized and stressed out that Casey is.  Casey is cool, calculated and manipulative, which is more psychotic.  Casey has a disassociative disorder IMO.

Otherwise known as multiple personalities.  She has the strong willed child personality...the domineering  cold hearted biotch personality and the please somebody help me in here personality.  Right now they are all intermingled.  a good defense attorney would milk that aspect for all it's worth...let's see which one of Casey's personalities are reading the blogs.

Disassociative in that Casey is not capable of feeling for anyone, no one; that she has learned how to act to pretend that she's caring, etc., but she really is incapable of those feelings and is a reason why she wants to make every pay for going against her; she does not feel/understand why everyone only wants to find Caylee.  It's ALL about Casey.  Casey only feels for Casey and to h*ll with ANYONE who doesn't feel the same way.  And Casey has no conscientious, no guilt feelings, no compassion for what anyone else is going through, which is why she steals from her parents, her friends, does away with Caylee and doesn't care whether or not Cindy has a breakdown.  Casey is a big VOID.

 

[mrsrocko19]

Did anyone see this interview..Cindy said she doesn't believe casey was the last one driving the car

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZvEhnzlobA

Wow!  I just listened to this 9 min. interview.  I had not seen this before now.
I encourage every monkey to view this interview in its entirety.  It covers a lot of stuff.
One thing for sure...Cindy is certain that the last day Caylee was "seen" was June 16.
That fits in the the LE focusing on June 16, 17 and 18.

This interview really upset me..I thought cindy was just yelling at the protestors thiese things but she truely believes her daughter is innocent

[jjayinthemorning]

Cindy and George were having marital issues because of infidelity. hmmm. Has the other woman been named? Casey is the other woman... possibly. Yes, incest happens and little secrets sometimes result in murder. It's not so unbelievable. And I think a strong statement is that Caylee was murdered the day after Fathers Day.

I agree.  I do think incest and abuse were a part of the family dynamic.

That is my opinoin to..I really wish the media would find out more about them when they lived in ohio..

Look at my timeline at the top of page 62 and tell me if you agree too... maybe we can fill in the blanks.

[mytime]

Ok - please do not start attacking me!    I have been reluctant to post this for several reasons.  But a LE, not working the case, said he thought Caylee died by accident.  There is no big conspiracy.  The parents are just stupid and just doing what Baez has told them to do, so Casey can get a fair trial.  When I told him about some of the theories I have read, child sex ring/ porn ring, etc.  He just shock his head, rolled his eyes and laughed.  He last comment was before he left unexpectedly and in a real hurry, was look what Casey has put he parents through.  The media has done a number on the those parents, don't believe everything you read.

I know this to be very true because when I worked for DCF, I worked on a local "high profile" case.  Everything I read in the paper was so inaccurate and exaggerated. Long after my role was over, the daycare worker has found guilty for shaking a baby, but I was never convinced it was her.  Mom of shaken baby, went on a mission to educate parents about shaken baby syndrome, even appeared on Dr. Phil (archives have since been deleted of his web sight). 

Long story short, not too long ago - the mother of the child that got was shaken, was arrested for trying to brutally kill her own mother, her business partner.  It appeared to be premeditated. 

Lastly, if anyone accused my husband or son of incest, I would actually lose control.
I know I would!!  As a mother, I am very protective of my family and would go banannas if protesters were bad mouthing my family, even if my daughter did what Casey did.  I wouldn't lie for her but I would protect her.

I am not defending CA and GA, I think they should of kept ther mouths shut.  I think they have made the situation worse for themselves.  But after much soul searching, I would have probably already have been arrested for assault - and I am in no way - a violent person but I think I would probably take my hurt, anger, grief, frustation out on the world.




I am not a violent person, but I think I would have alot of misplaced anger and would take it out on the rest of the world.  Behind closed doors, I would think and hope Casey is feeling the tension.

I am not defending CA and GA, but I when I out myself in there shoes with the media

mytime -
sorry - accident does not explain anything that has happened. And her chances at a fair trial have been compromised by her own actions.

accident - no jail time.

intentional - life.

that cop is entitled to his opinion, but I'm not buying it.

THIS CASE SAYS INTENTIONAL ALL OVER IT, from top to bottom.

thanks for sharing what you know.

Maybe the cop was using an interrogative "tatic" in presenting that he could be understanding; by giving Casey the opportunity to latch onto to the excuse of "it was an accident".  IMO, it was a means to try to get Casey to confess...but she won't.

I agree here.  He was throwing something out there hoping she would bite at the chance to change her story...knowing fully well that an otopsy of the body would prove what really had happened.  Unfortunately for this cop, Casey too had already thought of that, meaning something bad did happen to Caylee, and it was no accident.

JMO, During her investigation, I think she stuck to all the lies and more she told her family.  She seemed to be mire scared of her mother never forgiving her than telling the truth.  After listening to the tapes, I don't hink she knows how to tell the truth.  I don't know why but her lie about reporting her phone stolen to Universal security - 9 days ago just really spoke volumes to me.

[klaasend]

What is the Breaking News Caylee Marie no Dissusion thread about
has something happened

No, nothing has happened.  We (or the other moderators) are going to try to have a thread with daily news in the case only...no discussion.  I've yet to see this work so it will be interresting to see how it goes.

[Puzzler]

Any information that Cindy has and can't let out is probably information that will be used in Casey's defense.  Why do I think that when this information comes out, that it will go something like this:  Caylee was kidnapped and Casey was told that if she goes to the police that something bad will happen to George, Cindy and/or Lee.  Casey will say that she HAD to lie to the police to save her family from harm (like we would believe that for one second when the woman couldn't manage to shed one tear during those interrogations). 

The WORLD is on to Casey.  I do feel compassion for grandparents in the context of their losing a granddaughter and even for parents in the context of dealing with a "certifiably psychotic" daughter; however, with them having all this knowledge, I don't have compassion for those who would NOT go forward and "do the right thing" (instead of aiding and abetting Miss Casey).  How can they live with themselves or sleep at night (wait...maybe they can't...maybe that's why they are jumping all over folks who let them know that the Anthony's...none of the Anthony's....are fooling anyone.  Truth hurts!!

My 2 cents...

Casey is not psychotic.  She's been evaluated at the jail for that.  She has a personality disorder, and personality disorders are not treatable.  She most likely has sociopathic personality disorder, uncommon for females, but it exists.  Casey will always be this way.  She will have no attachments, no feelings of remorse, or other feelings save for rage.  The prison system is loaded to the gill with sociopathic personality disorders.  That's where they tend to end up.  ///////Thank the good lord for prisons.

IMO - sociopathic is more unorganized and stressed out that Casey is.  Casey is cool, calculated and manipulative, which is more psychotic.  Casey has a disassociative disorder IMO.

Has Casey had episodes of time she cannot account for?  (time that is lost from the memory).  Is a dissociative disorder classified as psychotic?  Does Casey have alternate personalities? 

The psychiatrist on NG say that it's a disassociative disorder, which is not a multiple personality disorder.  They're two different things.

[kippy]

Ok - please do not start attacking me!    I have been reluctant to post this for several reasons.  But a LE, not working the case, said he thought Caylee died by accident.  There is no big conspiracy.  The parents are just stupid and just doing what Baez has told them to do, so Casey can get a fair trial.  When I told him about some of the theories I have read, child sex ring/ porn ring, etc.  He just shock his head, rolled his eyes and laughed.  He last comment was before he left unexpectedly and in a real hurry, was look what Casey has put he parents through.  The media has done a number on the those parents, don't believe everything you read.

I know this to be very true because when I worked for DCF, I worked on a local "high profile" case.  Everything I read in the paper was so inaccurate and exaggerated. Long after my role was over, the daycare worker has found guilty for shaking a baby, but I was never convinced it was her.  Mom of shaken baby, went on a mission to educate parents about shaken baby syndrome, even appeared on Dr. Phil (archives have since been deleted of his web sight). 

Long story short, not too long ago - the mother of the child that got was shaken, was arrested for trying to brutally kill her own mother, her business partner.  It appeared to be premeditated. 

Lastly, if anyone accused my husband or son of incest, I would actually lose control.
I know I would!!  As a mother, I am very protective of my family and would go banannas if protesters were bad mouthing my family, even if my daughter did what Casey did.  I wouldn't lie for her but I would protect her.

I am not defending CA and GA, I think they should of kept ther mouths shut.  I think they have made the situation worse for themselves.  But after much soul searching, I would have probably already have been arrested for assault - and I am in no way - a violent person but I think I would probably take my hurt, anger, grief, frustation out on the world.

I understand what you are saying BUT I fail to see how the media is offending them in any way.  Most of the time they are reporting facts that we see with our very own eyes.  We can read all the documents for ourselves.  LP was the one who hinted about DNA and being shocking.  The incest stuff came from bloggers.  IMO I think LE has been very close lipped about the entire case, anything more than that is pure speculation. 

Hi Kippy, just one example - where did the media get their info on that Casey did not want her baby?  From the documents, but it was Kio who said that and she didn't even know which Casey was calling her, wouldn't turn over her phone records. ect.  I don't think she was a very reliable source. 

I didn't know the media reported that, I've missed some.  I don't think Kio was reliable either but she put herself out there, its in the documents and anything released in the documents I think is fair game to report or speculate on.  I'm not arguing with you, please don't take it as that, its just my opinion.  If the Anthony's, any of them, would at least appear to be coorporative I think the media would be alot more friendly to them, as well as their own community may be supportive. 

[AZLady]

Disassociative in that Casey is not capable of feeling for anyone, no one; that she has learned how to act to pretend that she's caring, etc., but she really is incapable of those feelings and is a reason why she wants to make every pay for going against her; she does not feel/understand why everyone only wants to find Caylee.  It's ALL about Casey.  Casey only feels for Casey and to h*ll with ANYONE who doesn't feel the same way.  And Casey has no conscientious, no guilt feelings, no compassion for what anyone else is going through, which is why she steals from her parents, her friends, does away with Caylee and doesn't care whether or not Cindy has a breakdown.  Casey is a big VOID.

 

Casey is a big dangerous VOID.  Because of her inability to empathize, she's like a bull in china shop--she can destroy all around her without being affected.  Very dangerous.

[klaasend]

Welcome jjay - the incest theory is contraversial to say the least. I for one have not discounted it as an explanation for some of Casey's behaviors.

[Dolce]

The jailor said in Casey's last visit she was a model inmate spending most of her time reading...it her escape from the circumstances surrounding her.  She lives in her head.

Yes, and I think the OCSO recognized this fairly quickly.  I would love to see the psych evals about which the judge said he had never seen anything like before.  I do think Baez will attempt to use Casey's childhood abuse and mental and emotional issues in her defense.  He will essentially throw G & C under the bus as lousy parents who created a monster.  This won't get her off, but might lighten her sentence or help her avoid the DP.  It's really all he has.

In that case would he not have to have Casey give statement against her own parents?  So in short, C&G could be flipping the bill on their own demise?

[Stacey]

What is the Breaking News Caylee Marie no Dissusion thread about
has something happened

No, nothing has happened.  We (or the other moderators) are going to try to have a thread with daily news in the case only...no discussion.  I've yet to see this work so it will be interresting to see how it goes.

Thanks so much

[OriginalKat]

No offense but when you're expressing your opinions on a message board that the Anthony's can read - how is that different than going to their house?

If the Anthony's came on this board, they'd know full well what they were getting themselves into. This is SM turf-  not their own.  True?   They don't really have any logical reason to visit the board, except to scream to the world that they know nothing, their daughter is innocent, and Caylee is alive.  Correct?  We all know their time would be better served getting to the truth of what really happened to this child- by searching, following up on leads, etc. So it would make little sense to come here in the first place. If they did, they would have to expect the reaction you and I both know they would get.  Right?

It would also be better served NOT doing yard work or being out front where people can see them correct?

Ask them?  I'm not the Anthony's keeper, last I checked..

I wanted to comment on the Anthony's being on message boards.
Following statement was on NG 9/10/08 when Nejame was on his PR blitx in NY....
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes, very much so. There`s been suggestions that George would be arrested for everything from the gun to the trespass case that`s existing. There`s comments all over the place. And I appreciate your comment because a lot of people don`t understand it, and that is that they are not suspects. They are not people of interest. In fact, the Orange County sheriff`s office, who`s conducting a very intensive investigation, extremely professional in the way they`ve been talking and dealing with me, have indicated that they are not to be involved in any way, that they have not been involved in any way.

Many, many people don`t believe that. If you read the blogs, if you read the e-mails, if you listen to a lot of the news reports, many people believe they are suspects. And I appreciate greatly your confirming that because the Orange County sheriff`s office has stated exactly what you said. They are not suspects. They are not people of interest.

If you read the interview you will realize that this was Nejame saying this and not an unidentified female making the statement. I am sure I remember him making the statement and it is worded like his "magic" talk.

They could mean Anthony's or his people, friends but yes....tehy know what is being said and maybe that is why more anger is taking over...tehy are suppose to be victims.

I do give them sympathy on losing their granddaughter and possibly the guilt for not doing something before this happened will be a lifelong mark on them. I do hope something happens to make this come to an end and let other cases get the attention they need.[color]