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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 - 10/04/08  (Read 297457 times)
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Miss Scarlet
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« Reply #200 on: September 22, 2008, 10:03:22 AM »

I may have already asked this and someone answered, but I will try again...do we have any idea when the crab trap was reported missing? 

Wasn't it the next morning? 
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #201 on: September 22, 2008, 10:06:17 AM »

I may have already asked this and someone answered, but I will try again...do we have any idea when the crab trap was reported missing? 


Lala's going from memory, the night Natalee disappeared...along with a knife, I think.

That is what I can recall from Dr Hodge's Thoughprints, and don't have it bookmarked anymore.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #202 on: September 22, 2008, 10:17:59 AM »

So the trap was missing and reported by what time of day?  Those fishermen get there really early don't they?  I think we need to know for sure since that would go to a timeline.  I am thinking the trap had been there for a while behind the huts and they discovered it missing that next morning.  That was always curious to me..if it was a trap they didn't use any longer why even bother to report it gone and how do they know how long it had been missing?  All rhetorical questions now since we have no access to the report.  I would be interested in knowing more details for sure.

Also, has anyone ever wondered why the Gottenbos are all over here in the USA now?  Would you move your family to a place where your sons were rumored to have helped in a body disposal of an American lived?  If you read the statement by Sander you get several red flags and still they are living here?  They are either totally innocent and had nothing to do with this and have been falsely accused or associated or they are really in- your-face-brave.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #203 on: September 22, 2008, 10:24:38 AM »

So the trap was missing and reported by what time of day?  Those fishermen get there really early don't they?  I think we need to know for sure since that would go to a timeline.  I am thinking the trap had been there for a while behind the huts and they discovered it missing that next morning.  That was always curious to me..if it was a trap they didn't use any longer why even bother to report it gone and how do they know how long it had been missing?  All rhetorical questions now since we have no access to the report.  I would be interested in knowing more details for sure.

Also, has anyone ever wondered why the Gottenbos are all over here in the USA now?  Would you move your family to a place where your sons were rumored to have helped in a body disposal of an American lived?  If you read the statement by Sander you get several red flags and still they are living here?  They are either totally innocent and had nothing to do with this and have been falsely accused or associated or they are really in- your-face-brave.


Lala's...I looked at Dr Hodges's site, but it doesn't even look familiar to me now!

I recall the knife and the trap, but also recall Kyle mentioning a larger trap. Think he asked where would one be found in Aruba, and Rob replied to him???

Was there ever anything to the Gottenbos being related to the Sloot's? That may be enough reason to get them away from there, if they were innocent of cours...or maybe guilty as well!

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Miss Scarlet
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« Reply #204 on: September 22, 2008, 10:33:13 AM »

Lala's Mom,

On one of the tv specials, (Carpe could probably identify) one of the fishermen said he noticed immediately the following morning the trap was gone because it sat in the grass in the back undisturbed for a long time, so when it was gone it was quite noticeable.  It was either him, or one of the other fishermen that decided to go down and check the other huts and noticed broken locks with nothing inside gone in some huts, and a knife gone in one of the others. 

Sorry if I am not helping, but I am trying.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #205 on: September 22, 2008, 10:35:15 AM »

Per Tim Miller...the same night and some big knives were stolen...

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/01/11/tim-miller-and-texas-equusearch-headed-back-to-aruba-in-search-of-natalee-holloway/

snipped

Miller told KPRC Local 2 that Aruba’s police commissioner told him that he feels Holloway might be inside a fish trap dropped deep into the water.

“The night she disappeared is the same night a fisherman’s hut got broken into and a huge fish trap got stolen. Some big knives got stolen, and none of it has been found since,” Miller said.

The cage the commissioner referred to is similar a crab trap people could buy at a hardware store.

Tim Miller states that if Natalee is in such a fish trap that he is optimistic in finding her. Miller is bringing the proper equipment for such a search.

snipped

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MumInOhio
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« Reply #206 on: September 22, 2008, 10:37:57 AM »

Lala's Mom,

On one of the tv specials, (Carpe could probably identify) one of the fishermen said he noticed immediately the following morning the trap was gone because it sat in the grass in the back undisturbed for a long time, so when it was gone it was quite noticeable.  It was either him, or one of the other fishermen that decided to go down and check the other huts and noticed broken locks with nothing inside gone in some huts, and a knife gone in one of the others. 

Sorry if I am not helping, but I am trying.


Miss Scarlet...I finally went to google as I thought they were found broken into the next day as well...and of course I came up with the right page for Dr Hodges's as well.

Should have known it was on the Front Page!!
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #207 on: September 22, 2008, 10:43:37 AM »

Lala's Mom,

On one of the tv specials, (Carpe could probably identify) one of the fishermen said he noticed immediately the following morning the trap was gone because it sat in the grass in the back undisturbed for a long time, so when it was gone it was quite noticeable.  It was either him, or one of the other fishermen that decided to go down and check the other huts and noticed broken locks with nothing inside gone in some huts, and a knife gone in one of the others. 

Sorry if I am not helping, but I am trying.

That is just what I wanted to know. Thanks.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #208 on: September 22, 2008, 10:54:26 AM »

Sorry everyone - wrong color!   

The Freemasonary rutual is all about a body( murder victim) being buried in a shallow grave
and then moved to a watery grave.  Maybe that is the case.



Magnolia - can you tell us more about this ritual.  I am really interested.

















Go to:    http://www.emfj.org/dbr.htm
and read about Hiram Abif

Magnolia,

I read your link and it sounds to me as though Shango may be a Freemason himself, albeit reluctantly.

I think that the Masonic lore is the key to the Shango verses.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #209 on: September 22, 2008, 10:55:25 AM »

Well, we are back to the one place that we have no control over in finding out information...the contents of the trap found by the Persistence.  I don't think we will ever know now, since Kyle clearly states that the contents were removed by ALE and no one seems to know where they are now.  I clearly remember Mos on that ship at one point...he knows what was in that trap and he's not going to release any info to anyone. 

I guess what we should think about here is could a trap as large as the one I saw in the video from the persistence actually fit on a boat the size of the Gottenbos and would the waters have been calm enough that night to make it out to the area they found it?  It seemed the water was pretty rough the entire time they were out there and they were in a very large ship...would it be possible to go out that far with seas that rough and dump a trap filled with a body?  I am thinking the answer is yes...but I don't know for sure.  Who would have the courage to carry it out that far?  If you go with the trap and boat scenario you have to disregard all the information about the pond.  If the trap was missing the next day...then she would have been taken out to sea the night before...within hours of daylight.  There are some things we know and the trap being missing is one of them...if it really was missing and only went missing the night before.  Just how reliable are those witnesses...I know they questioned the fishermen...it's in the Dr. Phil documents list but is it possible that they took her out that very night under cover of darkness and the Persistence found her and we still have nothing?  How do all the other things we know fit into this scenario?
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Miss Scarlet
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« Reply #210 on: September 22, 2008, 10:59:14 AM »

[Magnolia,

I read your link and it sounds to me as though Shango may be a Freemason himself, albeit reluctantly.
[/quote]

I think that the Masonic lore is the key to the Shango verses.
[/quote]

Strongly agree.
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Magnolia
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« Reply #211 on: September 22, 2008, 11:00:14 AM »

Well, we are back to the one place that we have no control over in finding out information...the contents of the trap found by the Persistence.  I don't think we will ever know now, since Kyle clearly states that the contents were removed by ALE and no one seems to know where they are now.  I clearly remember Mos on that ship at one point...he knows what was in that trap and he's not going to release any info to anyone. 

I guess what we should think about here is could a trap as large as the one I saw in the video from the persistence actually fit on a boat the size of the Gottenbos and would the waters have been calm enough that night to make it out to the area they found it?  It seemed the water was pretty rough the entire time they were out there and they were in a very large ship...would it be possible to go out that far with seas that rough and dump a trap filled with a body?  I am thinking the answer is yes...but I don't know for sure.  Who would have the courage to carry it out that far?  If you go with the trap and boat scenario you have to disregard all the information about the pond.  If the trap was missing the next day...then she would have been taken out to sea the night before...within hours of daylight.  There are some things we know and the trap being missing is one of them...if it really was missing and only went missing the night before.  Just how reliable are those witnesses...I know they questioned the fishermen...it's in the Dr. Phil documents list but is it possible that they took her out that very night under cover of darkness and the Persistence found her and we still have nothing?  How do all the other things we know fit into this scenario?

We saw a picture of a fisherman in a boat no bigger than a row boat with a trap that
size on it and the fisherman was alone.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #212 on: September 22, 2008, 11:03:04 AM »

Hey Magnolia!  LOL  Some think the key is based in Santeria religion...some think it is based in mythology...I am beginning to think it means nothing by now. Yes, I said that...Shango so wanted Joran and the Kalpoes to be innocent and someone else...dirty hand to have all the answers. 

So we have:

Masonic
Santeria
Mythology
Marvel Comics
Gambling


Shango can be interpreted in all theses different areas and quite successfully too. What if Shango had been reading a book that week and he/she used ideas from that particular book to get his message across....what if Shango didn't have a message outside of Simian's postings...what if they both were methods of deception...I could go on and on and I have at one time or the other...what if?  It all depends on who Shango is as to what they meant...just like Simian.
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ldstlou
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« Reply #213 on: September 22, 2008, 11:04:02 AM »

Hey Magnolia!  LOL  Some think the key is based in Santeria religion...some think it is based in mythology...I am beginning to think it means nothing by now. Yes, I said that...Shango so wanted Joran and the Kalpoes to be innocent and someone else...dirty hand to have all the answers. 

So we have:

Masonic
Santeria
Mythology
Marvel Comics
Gambling


Shango can be interpreted in all theses different areas and quite successfully too. What if Shango had been reading a book that week and he/she used ideas from that particular book to get his message across....what if Shango didn't have a message outside of Simian's postings...what if they both were methods of deception...I could go on and on and I have at one time or the other...what if?  It all depends on who Shango is as to what they meant...just like Simian.


Lalas!!! Our friend just called you back and you didn't answer!!! lol
Can you call him back now. 
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #214 on: September 22, 2008, 11:09:04 AM »

Well, we are back to the one place that we have no control over in finding out information...the contents of the trap found by the Persistence.  I don't think we will ever know now, since Kyle clearly states that the contents were removed by ALE and no one seems to know where they are now.  I clearly remember Mos on that ship at one point...he knows what was in that trap and he's not going to release any info to anyone. 

I guess what we should think about here is could a trap as large as the one I saw in the video from the persistence actually fit on a boat the size of the Gottenbos and would the waters have been calm enough that night to make it out to the area they found it?  It seemed the water was pretty rough the entire time they were out there and they were in a very large ship...would it be possible to go out that far with seas that rough and dump a trap filled with a body?  I am thinking the answer is yes...but I don't know for sure.  Who would have the courage to carry it out that far?  If you go with the trap and boat scenario you have to disregard all the information about the pond.  If the trap was missing the next day...then she would have been taken out to sea the night before...within hours of daylight.  There are some things we know and the trap being missing is one of them...if it really was missing and only went missing the night before.  Just how reliable are those witnesses...I know they questioned the fishermen...it's in the Dr. Phil documents list but is it possible that they took her out that very night under cover of darkness and the Persistence found her and we still have nothing?  How do all the other things we know fit into this scenario?

We saw a picture of a fisherman in a boat no bigger than a row boat with a trap that
size on it and the fisherman was alone.

Does anyone remember how far out it was?  All I recall is Kyle's post about watching from the beach and IIRC Anita and Paulus did too.

Which of the Gottenbos and Sloot boys were scuba divers? Val?

It fits with the Peter deVries show...I think
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LoRain
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« Reply #215 on: September 22, 2008, 11:09:07 AM »

WhiskeyGirl,  on previous page Kermit says that Kyle gave the shoe that was found in crab trap to the FBI.  He says (implies) it is Joran's missing K-Swiss.

 

Over the years, I counted at least three missing shoes.  A pair, and one single shoe, the K-Swiss.

Also if the disposal/hiding/rehiding covered several days and events, isn't it possible that more than one pair of shoes disappeared?  Along with other clothing, such as the posse saw J2K dressed in that first night on Aruba?

Shoe????...One in a closet, one in the Pond, one in the trap plus whatever Jossy showed in his paper a while back!

Size 10 or 14, or size 10 and 14?

Someone is fibbing here or Joran had two pair of shoes or Joran has more than two feet...

I wonder.....if perhaps it might be possible that it is someone else's shoes along with Joran's.....I don't doubt about the lying part though....
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #216 on: September 22, 2008, 11:09:17 AM »

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #217 on: September 22, 2008, 11:12:58 AM »

[Magnolia,

I read your link and it sounds to me as though Shango may be a Freemason himself, albeit reluctantly.

I think that the Masonic lore is the key to the Shango verses.
[/quote]

Strongly agree.
[/quote]

I went through the Masonic dictionary one afternoon and found quite a few things that matched with Shango. This was quite a while back and I am not familiar at all with Masonic lore...

I wonder if my Shango would be a Mason?
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Magnolia
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« Reply #218 on: September 22, 2008, 11:17:13 AM »

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

My opinions are just mine and they may change tomorrow.
It has been my experience that children raised near the ocean know all about the
ocean and all that pertains to it.  They know boats and scuba and fish.
The ocean is their playgound.
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MumInOhio
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« Reply #219 on: September 22, 2008, 11:19:47 AM »

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

If it all happened that night then just about everything else we have believed didn't. Were they diversions.

Lala's...I think all those kids knew the water and boats well.

I still think Simian posted because of Steve Croes being arrested. but then why 2 posts on 6/17 and then no more for days? Unless they were going to railroad Steve! Then again Simian posted almost exclusively from work!
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