Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 - 10/04/08

[LoRain]

Wasn't there something about some rope missing also?...if one placed the trap in the water and dragged it out to sea...then no one would see it and wouldn't have to worry about how big it was and lifting it also...just a thought....

[Jonathan45]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/1988642/__Holloway-onderzoek_eind_2008_klaar__.html

[MumInOhio]

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

Never heard the bouy toll...Natalee was already unconscious or deceased

Didn't build sandcastles...Kalpoes didn't take Joran and Nat to the beach, they dropped them somewhere else. 

[Miss Scarlet]

Not meant to be gruesome, morbid, or disrespectful in any way:

The trap, big knife, painted rocks.  Clearly, these may collectively point to dismemberment.  In America, some criminals live in one jurisdiction, commit a heinous crime in another, yet work in another still.  That is what Ted Bundy did and it made it difficult to catch him.  This is tiny island.  If indeed dismemberment did occur, spreading the body around would make solving it, evidencewise, more difficult.  The body would not be intact.  If Natalee would not fold up to fit in a cage, the knife would solve that.  Then again, criminals like to keep a keepsake of their 'handiwork' as sick as that is.  Maybe they did, and changed their mind as this is a hot, hot potato, and had to discard other parts other places.

It's difficult to fathom, to be sure.  As for the bag in the basin, I saw a body.

Criminals think they can and do commit the perfect crime, but that is not true.

Natalee was, and still is, a Christian.  God did not abandon her, regardless of how it may look to others.  God is still on the throne and will reveal all in His good and perfect timing.  We are not all here as a fluke either.  I may not be able to assist many of you fabulous monkeys detective-wise, but I do uplift you in prayer.  This truly is a fight between good and evil and good will win in the end.  In the meantime, although it is painful beyond words, especially for Natalee's family, she did not die in vain.  Her story has brought a bright light to a dark underworld and has greatly slowed, if not entirely stopped their 'games' at least for the time being.  It has also saved countless young women from being victimized in the same ways she was.  She may in fact, be the catalyst that cleans that place up for good.

[MumInOhio]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/1988642/__Holloway-onderzoek_eind_2008_klaar__.html

Johan...Help...Please!


Thanks Jonathan45...

[Miss Scarlet]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/1988642/__Holloway-onderzoek_eind_2008_klaar__.html

Translation . . . anyone?

Please and thank ou!

[Miss Scarlet]

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

Never heard the bouy toll...Natalee was already unconscious or deceased

Didn't build sandcastles...Kalpoes didn't take Joran and Nat to the beach, they dropped them somewhere else. 

Exactly!

[MumInOhio]

Thank You Miss Scarlet for your insight and thoughts.

Could this be the reason that Steve looks like he does now and why Simian felt a need to point out a 5th. Suspect. This was supposed to have happened around  6/22

Anchor...rope...LoRain...

Posted my mehill10

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1607.msg228322#msg228322


RBN #20 - 6/23/05 Evening « Reply #166 on: June 23, 2005, 08:18:40 PM »   
 
Quote from: "luna"
Hey...when is this conference supposed to be??


AND....I was cruising other boards last night and I found a *very* interesting reference to an Aruban newspaper article (no link provided) that said one of the Fisherman's Huts in the Lover's Lane area had been broken into the night Natalee went missing.....

and an anchor, rope etc had been stolen.....

Any of our Aruban friends hear anything about that???  Someone speculated that SGC was haning out on the Tattoo that night since it doesn't sail on Sundays....and if things went wrong, he might have been pulled in to help.  The poster also said that the Tattoo had two smaller boats, a dinghy and something else....

Anyway....found it all curious....obviously completely a rumor, and most likely wrong.


quote
I saw it on riehl world view   it was surpost to be in a newpaper   say that they thought the steve guy did the breaking and entering

[MumInOhio]

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/1988642/__Holloway-onderzoek_eind_2008_klaar__.html

Translation . . . anyone?

Please and thank ou!

I think Johan left...I will run it through the Google translator...

[MumInOhio]

Translation: Dutch » English
        Mon 22 September, 2008, 16:51

Holloway case ready at the end of 2008   Twingly blog search 1 blog comments for this article   Holloway investigation at the end of 2008 ready 38 minutes ago Ball's playground What is Twingly? ORANGE CITY -

The investigation into the possible involvement of the Dutch national Joran van der Sloot in the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway, at the end of this year. Then decide the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) on Aruba whether there is enough evidence against Van der Sloot is for him to justice. It has a judiciary spokeswoman said Monday. Holloway (then 18 years old) disappeared late May 2005 during an evening steps. She was on vacation in Aruba. Since then, lacking any trace of the student from Alabama.

A high-profile show of crime reporter Peter R. de Vries gave on February 3 jammed investigation into the disappearance of the U.S. a new impetus. In the report ontlokte "infiltrator" Patrick van der river Eem suspect Joran van der Sloot for the purpose of the (hidden) camera with a detailed confession about his involvement in the case.

Van der Sloot told him that on the night of 29 to 30 May, 2005 with Natalee on the beach near the Marriott Hotel was. The American was drunk and he began suddenly exposed to shocks, to even later no longer moving. He said all tried to have her back to consciousness, but nothing happened. Then he called a friend and who has Natalee with him aboard his boat gehesen. Subsequently, the body that friend of the U.S. less than two miles from the coast in the water life. Police and Justice Van der Sloot had been longer as a suspect in the grain and put him in for arrest. But the evidence against the Dutchman was not around and they were the authorities in Aruba weather forced him to be released.

The show of Peter R. de Vries did not lead to the re-tightening Joran van der Sloot. According to his lawyer gave the court no authorization, because his client had indicated that his statements against Van der river Eem verifiable were false. Even when the PPS gave that the court took into account a "personality problem" with Van der Sloot.
 
The report of Peter R. de Vries was itself not uncontroversial. After the broadcast was clear that Patrick van der river Eem had a criminal past. He also foresaw Van der Sloot during the soft journeys by car and wrong during the talks he himself sometimes under the influence of cocaine.

[bastibro]

Translation: Dutch » English
        Mon 22 September, 2008, 16:51

Holloway case ready at the end of 2008   Twingly blog search 1 blog comments for this article   Holloway investigation at the end of 2008 ready 38 minutes ago Ball's playground What is Twingly? ORANGE CITY -

The investigation into the possible involvement of the Dutch national Joran van der Sloot in the disappearance of American student Natalee Holloway, at the end of this year. Then decide the Public Prosecution Service (PPS) on Aruba whether there is enough evidence against Van der Sloot is for him to justice. It has a judiciary spokeswoman said Monday. Holloway (then 18 years old) disappeared late May 2005 during an evening steps. She was on vacation in Aruba. Since then, lacking any trace of the student from Alabama.

A high-profile show of crime reporter Peter R. de Vries gave on February 3 jammed investigation into the disappearance of the U.S. a new impetus. In the report ontlokte "infiltrator" Patrick van der river Eem suspect Joran van der Sloot for the purpose of the (hidden) camera with a detailed confession about his involvement in the case.

Van der Sloot told him that on the night of 29 to 30 May, 2005 with Natalee on the beach near the Marriott Hotel was. The American was drunk and he began suddenly exposed to shocks, to even later no longer moving. He said all tried to have her back to consciousness, but nothing happened. Then he called a friend and who has Natalee with him aboard his boat gehesen. Subsequently, the body that friend of the U.S. less than two miles from the coast in the water life. Police and Justice Van der Sloot had been longer as a suspect in the grain and put him in for arrest. But the evidence against the Dutchman was not around and they were the authorities in Aruba weather forced him to be released.

The show of Peter R. de Vries did not lead to the re-tightening Joran van der Sloot. According to his lawyer gave the court no authorization, because his client had indicated that his statements against Van der river Eem verifiable were false. Even when the PPS gave that the court took into account a "personality problem" with Van der Sloot.
 
The report of Peter R. de Vries was itself not uncontroversial. After the broadcast was clear that Patrick van der river Eem had a criminal past. He also foresaw Van der Sloot during the soft journeys by car and wrong during the talks he himself sometimes under the influence of cocaine.

Hello all . .

Very similar to last year. Let`s hope they find something against them that helps convict them, or at least stretch the case

[Lala'sMom]

Hey Magnolia!  LOL  Some think the key is based in Santeria religion...some think it is based in mythology...I am beginning to think it means nothing by now. Yes, I said that...Shango so wanted Joran and the Kalpoes to be innocent and someone else...dirty hand to have all the answers. 

So we have:

Masonic
Santeria
Mythology
Marvel Comics
Gambling


Shango can be interpreted in all theses different areas and quite successfully too. What if Shango had been reading a book that week and he/she used ideas from that particular book to get his message across....what if Shango didn't have a message outside of Simian's postings...what if they both were methods of deception...I could go on and on and I have at one time or the other...what if?  It all depends on who Shango is as to what they meant...just like Simian.

Lalas!!! Our friend just called you back and you didn't answer!!! lol
Can you call him back now. 

Sorry!!  So sorry!! LOL  Will do...give me a minute...I was talking to my kid.  Sorry!

[Lala'sMom]

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

My opinions are just mine and they may change tomorrow.
It has been my experience that children raised near the ocean know all about the
ocean and all that pertains to it.  They know boats and scuba and fish.
The ocean is their playgound.

I agree with you..only thing that gives me pause is the way that water looked when the Persistence was out there...a small boat would be tossed about like a toy in those waves.  I am more inclined to think a larger boat was used if we go with the ocean burial.  Like you it's just my opinion.  Sander certainly seems likely to be able to pull it off instead of Koen...also i have often wondered how many of us would have a ready made method of body disposal and be able to do it so well without some previous experience.  I mean, how many people do you know that can be called by their own son and jump into clean up mode without knowing beforehand who to call and what to do? 

[bastibro]

Peter R. de Vries in New York for Emmy Awards

21 September, 2008, Sunday

Peter R. de Vries is Sunday in New York arrived Monday for the Emmy Awards to attend. The broadcast of the crime reporter on the case of Natalee Holloway has been nominated for an Emmy Award. The much-discussed broadcast was not only the Netherlands in its grip, but went all over the world. Especially in America, there was much interest, De Vries was a guest at several major U.S. talk shows and news programs.

"In making such a report you are absolutely not trying to win things as prices," said the freezer. "Of course I knew that the impact of the report would be great, but a nomination for an Emmy Award would provide is a very nice surprise and a token of recognition". De Vries told earlier.

Monday is known whether Peter R. de Vries the award will actually receive it can take.

Patrick is still not welcome in the U.S.
I hope Peter wins the Emmy, provided that he nails Joran and co-perpetrators

                     
                             
                       Dave, Beth and the world desperately need JUSTICE4Natalee

[Lala'sMom]

Thank You Miss Scarlet for your insight and thoughts.

Could this be the reason that Steve looks like he does now and why Simian felt a need to point out a 5th. Suspect. This was supposed to have happened around  6/22

Anchor...rope...LoRain...

Posted my mehill10

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=1607.msg228322#msg228322


RBN #20 - 6/23/05 Evening « Reply #166 on: June 23, 2005, 08:18:40 PM »   
 
Quote from: "luna"
Hey...when is this conference supposed to be??


AND....I was cruising other boards last night and I found a *very* interesting reference to an Aruban newspaper article (no link provided) that said one of the Fisherman's Huts in the Lover's Lane area had been broken into the night Natalee went missing.....

and an anchor, rope etc had been stolen.....

Any of our Aruban friends hear anything about that???  Someone speculated that SGC was haning out on the Tattoo that night since it doesn't sail on Sundays....and if things went wrong, he might have been pulled in to help.  The poster also said that the Tattoo had two smaller boats, a dinghy and something else....

Anyway....found it all curious....obviously completely a rumor, and most likely wrong.


quote
I saw it on riehl world view   it was surpost to be in a newpaper   say that they thought the steve guy did the breaking and entering

Maybe this little tidbit of info was what started Simian on his rampage about the 5th suspect.  As some of suspect he was trying to get his cousin out of a mess and point the finger at the one person that was responsible...that also means he did indeed get a lot of his info from a limited source or two. 

[MumInOhio]

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

My opinions are just mine and they may change tomorrow.
It has been my experience that children raised near the ocean know all about the
ocean and all that pertains to it.  They know boats and scuba and fish.
The ocean is their playgound.

I agree with you..only thing that gives me pause is the way that water looked when the Persistence was out there...a small boat would be tossed about like a toy in those waves.  I am more inclined to think a larger boat was used if we go with the ocean burial.  Like you it's just my opinion.  Sander certainly seems likely to be able to pull it off instead of Koen...also i have often wondered how many of us would have a ready made method of body disposal and be able to do it so well without some previous experience.  I mean, how many people do you know that can be called by their own son and jump into clean up mode without knowing beforehand who to call and what to do? 

Are cigarette boats like the fast drug boats, same size etc?

Would it have been possible for them to have stashed the cage until the following night? Remember the white truck near the Holiday Inn?

Remember all the questions about whether Joran went to tennis practice on the Monday, if Koen was there, the tennis bag and Paulus.

Joran and Deepak were supposedly at the casino, did some-one else take over on Monday night?

[Miss Scarlet]

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

My opinions are just mine and they may change tomorrow.
It has been my experience that children raised near the ocean know all about the
ocean and all that pertains to it.  They know boats and scuba and fish.
The ocean is their playgound.

I agree with you..only thing that gives me pause is the way that water looked when the Persistence was out there...a small boat would be tossed about like a toy in those waves.  I am more inclined to think a larger boat was used if we go with the ocean burial.  Like you it's just my opinion.  Sander certainly seems likely to be able to pull it off instead of Koen...also i have often wondered how many of us would have a ready made method of body disposal and be able to do it so well without some previous experience.  I mean, how many people do you know that can be called by their own son and jump into clean up mode without knowing beforehand who to call and what to do? 

Are cigarette boats like the fast drug boats, same size etc?

Would it have been possible for them to have stashed the cage until the following night? Remember the white truck near the Holiday Inn?

Remember all the questions about whether Joran went to tennis practice on the Monday, if Koen was there, the tennis bag and Paulus.

Joran and Deepak were supposedly at the casino, did some-one else take over on Monday night?

Mum,

I've wondered that too.  Get a leisure looking boat (don't know the official name of those kind), pull canopy over that comes with the boat, go out in broad daylight with everyone else having an innocent fun time, but go out further and dump.  No one the wiser.  Hundreds of witnesses, but 'news' for all intents and purposes isn't 'out' yet, so no one 'sees' anything because nothing appears abnormal.

[Nut44x4]

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=cigarette+boat&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2

many photos here

[Miss Scarlet]

Besides that, she could have been in a boat, canopied over, all night in the yard, family member gets up in the a.m. and announces they are going to cruise on the water for a bit, and the female adult in the house just says o.k., have fun - see you in a bit!  Having no thoughts she is married to a demon (of that magnitude, anyway._

[MuffyBee]

So the trap was missing and reported by what time of day?  Those fishermen get there really early don't they?  I think we need to know for sure since that would go to a timeline.  I am thinking the trap had been there for a while behind the huts and they discovered it missing that next morning.  That was always curious to me..if it was a trap they didn't use any longer why even bother to report it gone and how do they know how long it had been missing?  All rhetorical questions now since we have no access to the report.  I would be interested in knowing more details for sure.

Also, has anyone ever wondered why the Gottenbos are all over here in the USA now?  Would you move your family to a place where your sons were rumored to have helped in a body disposal of an American lived?  If you read the statement by Sander you get several red flags and still they are living here?  They are either totally innocent and had nothing to do with this and have been falsely accused or associated or they are really in- your-face-brave.

I pick option number three: really in your face brave.  Didn't they lawyer up really quickly too?  And there are still a lot of Americans that don't understand just what happened in Aruba.