Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 - 10/04/08

[texasmom]

Ree,
These are translations of the document I believe you were referring too; they were posted later on the same page and on the next page.



http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=838.680
Posted by Leslie
Lively Case Discussion #582 2/10 - 2/15/2007
« Reply #685 on: February 14, 2007, 01:56:42 PM »

I "borrowed" a copy of the translation of the article from RU.  I am sure they won't mind:

arubagirl Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:32 pm   
 
Translation of Benvinda de Souza's letter to Karen Jansen

Letter from Benvinda de Souza to Karen Jansen, regarding the families actions when they first came to Aruba"

PAGE 1
Aruba, June 23 2005
Deliver
Strictly Confidential
Subject: Elizabeth Twitty – Holloway c.a. [I do not know what this acronym means] – wronged party [I’m just translating, I don’t know if this is the correct legal term in English]

Your Honor,

In the abovementioned matter, I inform you, partyly referring to your telephone conversation of today, the following.

As discussed before, it is the concern of the family of the now missing girl Miss Nathalee (sic) Holloway, to remain informed as good as possible under the circumstances about the criminal procedure which is taking place in relation to the disappearance. We have been hired as attorneys, to represent and support the family as the wronged party, but also to facilitate the information stream from the Justice Department and also to bring over the answers to the questions as good as possible and in the correct context.

The family is convinced that the investigation apparatus under the leadership of the Justice Department is hard at work to bring the case to a solution. However, at this moment the family has questions about the events that took place inmediately after the disappearance of Nathalee Holloway and if some people were interrogated, either as a witness or informant. The following is relevant to this.

Mr and Mrs. Twitty – Holloway received Monday, May 30th last, around 12 pm local time a the first message that their daughter was missing. After placing a few calls, it seemed that this message was really serious, because Nathalee was indeed nowhere to be found.     

Page 2

They inmediate arranged everything to come to Aruba as fast as possible and arrived in Aruba around 11pm Aruban time. At the airport the parents were met with mr. Alberto Groeneveld and Claudio Eldridge of Universal Aviation Aruba N.V. a ? company for private jets.

The parents departed inmediately to the Holiday Inn Hotel. They were awaited there by mr. Paul Lilly, one of the chaperones of the travelgroup of Nathalee and by mr. Eric Williams, and American ex-DEA agent and a friend of the family.

Because the parents had the feeling that something serious must have happened to Nathalee, they began the search themselves. From the two cousins of Nathalee who were with her in Aruba, a discription was received of Joran van der Sloot, since it was heard from others of Nathalee’s group that he was seen leaving with her from Carlos & Charlie’s, the previous night. Next the parents travelled to Carlos & Charlie’s, to get a view of the situation in the hopes of getting any useful information. This must have been around 1:30 am on May 31st. From Carlos & Charlie’s the group went to Valero Boulevard. There mr. Charles Croes presented himself, who introduced himself as a clairvoyant. They returned to the Holiday Inn. From the night manager cooperation was received to view the casino tapes, because Joran would have gambled there before. Indeed he was recognized on one of the tapes.

Information was also searched for along the beach. In the meantime mr. Alberto Groeneveld had received information that the silver car where Nathalee was last seen departing from Carlos & Charlie’s, had been spotted at a house in Montanja. After that the group went to the Noord police station, where two agents rode together with the group to the house in Montanja. This resulted to be the house of mr. Paul van der Sloot and his family. The silver car apparantly was not there anymore. After the police had looked around and attracted attention, indeed mr. Paul van der Sloot came outside. He was told the reason for this midnight visit, whereupon he let it be known that his son, Joran was not at home at the moment. He called his son, who according to him was in the Wyndham Casino. According to that information they departed with the two police officers and mr Paul van der Sloot to the Wyndham. When arrived there, Joran was not to be found. It had been witnessed that mr. Van Der Sloot had a conversation on his cellular phone, that was could not be understood. When Joran was not to be found his father called him again and he seemed to be at home. According to him he went home because there was police at his house. The personnel of the casino informed, after he was shown a picture of Nathalee, Nathalee was seen just before in the casino. Afterwards the group went again to the house of mr. Van Der Sloot. When arrived there the silver car appeared to be there. The door at the driver’s side was open.

Joran approached the group, with Deepak Kalpoe at his side, and began talking to the police officer. Seeing the clothes that he had on at that moment, it did not appear that he had just before been in a casino. Afterwards Joran wanted to approach mrs. Holloway, but interestingly enough . . .   
 
 mr. Van Der Sloot informed him several times that he did not have to or should say anything, even that he should shut his mouth. Deepak also said that Joran shouldn’t say anything. According to Joran, he wanted to talk because he wanted to help find Nathalee. This last took place in front of the police officers, together with mr. Charles Croes, Alberto Groeneveld and his colleague Claudio Eldridge. Then, in any case, Joran began to tell that he that he indeed left Carlos & Charlie’s together with the brothers Kalpoe and Nathalee the night before. They had supposedly gone to the lighthouse on the western side of Aruba, and dropped Nathalee around 2:00 am at the Holiday Inn. Also understood by Claudio is that mr. Van Der Sloot said that he picked up Joran around 4:00 am close to McDonald’s. Afterwards Joran told what kind of sexual acts he did with Nathalee. The family noticed that Joran behaved in an arrogant and challenging way.

The previously named actions took place between 11pm on May 30th 2005 and 4 am the following morning.

What comes next is the questions that the family wanted answers to: (loosely translated)

1) Has Mr. Groeneveld been interrogated about the times

2) Has Mr. Eldridge been interrogated

3) Why hasn’t Jug Twitty been interrogated

4) Did the police notice that the clothes were unsuitable for somebody who had just been in the casino?

5) Has it been confirmed that Joran has been in the casino? This because a personnel of the casino had mentioned that he had seen Nathalee

6) Has Charles Croes been interrogated?

7) Is it true that Mr. Kalpoe owns a ‘koei’ [?! Maybe they mean a ‘kooi’, which is a cage?!]

 Has it been established that Joran told his father in the presence of the grou that he was first in the Wyndham and then in the Raddisson and afterwards he went home?

9) Has there been any forensic evidence and if so, where?

10) What does the Justice Department base their reasonable suspicion on, other than statements of the suspects?

11) Are there other people that are considered suspects or is the Justice Department only focusing on these suspects?

12) It seems that Joran’s Headmaster said to Jug Twitty that Joran said that Nathalee had drowned . Have these people been interrogated/

The last request is to inform the family when searches are going on, so that they can prepare themselves in case something is found.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=838.680

Posted by Klaas:
 Lively Case Discussion #582 2/10 - 2/15/2007
« Reply #688 on: February 14, 2007, 02:03:58 PM »


Leslie - too funny.  I just created a thread for the same translated article by Arubagirl.

Pages 3 and 4

… mr. Van Der Sloot informed him several times that he did not have to or should say anything, even that he should shut his mouth. Deepak also said that Joran shouldn’t say anything. According to Joran, he wanted to talk because he wanted to help find Nathalee. This last took place in front of the police officers, together with mr. Charles Croes, Alberto Groeneveld and his colleague Claudio Eldridge. Then, in any case, Joran began to tell that he that he indeed left Carlos & Charlie’s together with the brothers Kalpoe and Nathalee the night before. They had supposedly gone to the lighthouse on the western side of Aruba, and dropped Nathalee around 2:00 am at the Holiday Inn. Also understood by Claudio is that mr. Van Der Sloot said that he picked up Joran around 4:00 am close to McDonald’s. Afterwards Joran told what kind of sexual acts he did with Nathalee. The family noticed that Joran behaved in an arrogant and challenging way.


 
 
 

[Poochy]

A fisherman...yes..but would the ones we know that were involved be able to do that?  I think we give them too much credit at being adept at doing what fisherman can do.  I do not think it was just one person that dumped Natalee...that is if she was dumped at sea at all....still there many people that do not think she was ever taken out to sea.

Back to Shango..."never heard the buoy toll" ..."didn't build sandcastles".

Witness that sees Joran at 4 AM....Paulus later...when did first light happen that day? 
Shoe in a pond...burials in a crypt....shallow grave....just too many things we will never know.

My opinions are just mine and they may change tomorrow.
It has been my experience that children raised near the ocean know all about the
ocean and all that pertains to it.  They know boats and scuba and fish.
The ocean is their playgound.

I agree with you..only thing that gives me pause is the way that water looked when the Persistence was out there...a small boat would be tossed about like a toy in those waves.  I am more inclined to think a larger boat was used if we go with the ocean burial.  Like you it's just my opinion.  Sander certainly seems likely to be able to pull it off instead of Koen...also i have often wondered how many of us would have a ready made method of body disposal and be able to do it so well without some previous experience.  I mean, how many people do you know that can be called by their own son and jump into clean up mode without knowing beforehand who to call and what to do? 

I agree about the larger boat, if it was in fact used - like the Tattoo perhaps. The one SCroes worked on; the one that immediately went up for sale just after Natalee went missing....

Also remember the St. John fires on Aruba and codetalker references to 'light the fire'. While I'm not sure about burning, the smoke on the streets would make a good cover for anybody to move something...

Sander saying in his PV that he'd put his hand 'in the fire' for Joran.  And codetalker said "such special boys [GOTTENBOS] won't burn their fingers"...
 

[texasmom]

I should have read my previous post completely before posting it.  The last paragraph had been included in Leslie's post right before the numbered items.

Sorry about that!   

[texasmom]

[Lala'sMom]

I found a reference that LaLa's is looking for where an Aruban says Paulus picked Joran up at 4AM, but I don't know how to bring it here.  Can sombody help me?  It's here.

   Lively Case Discussion #582 2/10 - 2/15/2007
« Reply #675 on: February 14, 2007, 01:29:40 PM »

Careful, there's lot's of Robots back there.  It'll make you sad.

I went to find this post...I have it an will try to get it over here otherwise maybe a mod with the power can do it for us...but that seems to be going back to the family hearing the 4 AM time from Paulus....I think it's Claudio, one of the Universal Air employees that were what Beth called "handlers" making the statement that it was overheard as Paulus saying he picked "them" up at 4AM at the McDonalds.  How do we know Paulus was speaking the truth...if he was actually seen at 3 AM what is there to think he was telling the truth about 4 AM...maybe he said it in order to throw everyone off as to the 3 AM time that he was REALLY out and about and not asleep as he had said.....remember...."who answered your phone at 2 in the morning" from Simian.

[Frijole]

Wow... lots to take in.  The more I read the more confused I become.   

One thought that hit me.... regarding the FBI saying the fabric was tested and did not match Natalee's top.... maybe that's because the fabric they had was DENIM and is a match for the skirt?  I pray that the reason that the story changed is because a decision was made to give the evidence to the FBI and to leave Aruba instead of playing any more games with ALE....

Please God... justice for Natalee.

[Lala'sMom]

OK I can't do it...help!!!  Klaas!!!  Help! Here is the part and the link but I can't make it work for me.

klaasend
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Lively Case Discussion #582 2/10 - 2/15/2007
« Reply #675 on: February 14, 2007, 01:29:40 PM »
   
Quote from: "msmarple"
klaas - Am I too excited about this Claudio thing? Or am I missing something?

If I understand correctly, of the 10+ witnesses in the driveway, at least one person FROM ARUBA heard what Beth says she heard.

Do we know where Claudio is now?


In Vinda deSouza's letter included in Joe T.'s NY case filings - page 3 of the letter, page 117 of Joe T. doc http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/doc3.pdf :

[CapsLockWizard]

From Oceanexplorer...

21   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -  on: May 14, 2008, 01:26:56 PM 
Greetings,

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.   
All the best
************************

If they didn't search the pond, who did?


They did search the pond on otfer of Hans Mos. Hans even give Order to DOW. (department of Public work) to clean it up and to put a chain around the entrance with a sing saying "No Traspassing " "Verboeden Toegang"

Now after the side scan, John was coordinating with the the OM and ALE to arrange to Pump it emty, but the OM did not lift a finger.
then the OM put a sign and make it prohibid to go to the area.
then when it was dried, the OM stop all activities that where scheduled on the scoccer field and moved them to other fields.
then in the wee hours in the mornings for 3 nights the light where on and from good source the message was clear, it is being search when everyone was as sleep.

Then the ligths never came on anymore. and the soccer ares is almost not used.

hope to clear this fact up.

[Lala'sMom]

As I understand this...the 4 AM was due to what Paulus said and nothing more.  So why did he say 4 AM?  No way he was going to give them anything that night...he was on guard from the moment they step on his property...he said 4 AM for a reason...especially since he knew already that Natalee was dead.  There was not witness that actually saw him...just the fact that they actually took Beth at her word or rather Claudio at his word, that Paulus said 4 AM.  Hmmmmm.  That means one thing...either it was all they could find as a reason for denial of compensation or it is the truth.

[Lala'sMom]

From Oceanexplorer...

21   Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #751 5/8 -  on: May 14, 2008, 01:26:56 PM 
Greetings,

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.   
All the best
************************

If they didn't search the pond, who did?


They did search the pond on otfer of Hans Mos. Hans even give Order to DOW. (department of Public work) to clean it up and to put a chain around the entrance with a sing saying "No Traspassing " "Verboeden Toegang"

Now after the side scan, John was coordinating with the the OM and ALE to arrange to Pump it emty, but the OM did not lift a finger.
then the OM put a sign and make it prohibid to go to the area.
then when it was dried, the OM stop all activities that where scheduled on the scoccer field and moved them to other fields.
then in the wee hours in the mornings for 3 nights the light where on and from good source the message was clear, it is being search when everyone was as sleep.

Then the ligths never came on anymore. and the soccer ares is almost not used.

hope to clear this fact up.

Hi Caps.  How to explain this statement by OE also.  Contradicts the other post:

 Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08  on: May 16, 2008, 08:59:01 AM

I'll try to clarify a few points. Nice pics by the way.
- The pond was searched because of a promising lead we received.
- We were able to conduct the scanning sonar (not to be confused with side scan sonar) search of the pond because of some weather related down time during the ocean search.
- My analysis of the sonar was used to 1) show that the pond needed to be drained in opposed to be investigated with divers.  The only way to effectively search the pond would be if it were dry. 2) show that there were objects in the pond aside from tires.  I'm not commenting on what these objects could be because I'm not speculating.  I will say that I at least saw tires (I saw a pic of one somewhere) in the scanning sonar.
- The reason the pond search was so delayed was on account of the labor strike.  The pond needed to be completely drained which needed the help of the Polis and fire department.  Needless to say labor was needed and hard to come by.  When the strike ended the pond search happened almost immediately.
- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.     

I hope that cleared up more questions that it raises.

[Lala'sMom]

Caps
Who do you think drained the pond?  Do you have any idea?

[SS]

Hello Kermit.  Sooooooo, shoe found in pond, then put in trap.  Or shoe found in trap then put in pond.  Confusion is my middle name

The trap contents weren't sampled until the 7th of January.  Neither Tim Miller, Tim Trahan, or Dateline were on board during this time.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.720

Dave Holloway: They represent heroes to me.
 
To be sure there was no relevant evidence, material from the trap was given to the FBI.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/5/

Tim Miller, Tim Trahan and Dateline were not onboard!

Ain't that convenient monkeys!

 

Kermit - why weren't Tim Miller and Tim Trahan on board the Persistence at such an important moment on January 7th?  Tim was 99% sure just seven days before that.  Did someone invesitgate the contents of the trap between December 30th and January 7th that we don't know about?

[texasmom]

OK I can't do it...help!!!  Klaas!!!  Help! Here is the part and the link but I can't make it work for me.

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Lively Case Discussion #582 2/10 - 2/15/2007
« Reply #675 on: February 14, 2007, 01:29:40 PM »
   
Quote from: "msmarple"
klaas - Am I too excited about this Claudio thing? Or am I missing something?

If I understand correctly, of the 10+ witnesses in the driveway, at least one person FROM ARUBA heard what Beth says she heard.

Do we know where Claudio is now?


In Vinda deSouza's letter included in Joe T.'s NY case filings - page 3 of the letter, page 117 of Joe T. doc http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/doc3.pdf :

I posted the translation of the letter above this post.

[Lala'sMom]

OK I can't do it...help!!!  Klaas!!!  Help! Here is the part and the link but I can't make it work for me.

klaasend
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Lively Case Discussion #582 2/10 - 2/15/2007
« Reply #675 on: February 14, 2007, 01:29:40 PM »
   
Quote from: "msmarple"
klaas - Am I too excited about this Claudio thing? Or am I missing something?

If I understand correctly, of the 10+ witnesses in the driveway, at least one person FROM ARUBA heard what Beth says she heard.

Do we know where Claudio is now?


In Vinda deSouza's letter included in Joe T.'s NY case filings - page 3 of the letter, page 117 of Joe T. doc http://www.xs4all.nl/~dugo/doc3.pdf :

I posted the translation of the letter above this post.

Thanks.  I saw that after I screamed for help. LOL

[Lala'sMom]

CAPS
Who drained the pond?  Do you know?  We can't figure it out...we need your help here.

[Magnolia]

Julia Renfro said that she and Mark Purcell climbed under the barrier and
ignored the No Trespessing signs and walked all through the pond and saw
nothing but shoes, tires and whiskey bottles.

[klaasend]

Julia Renfro said that she and Mark Purcell climbed under the barrier and
ignored the No Trespessing signs and walked all through the pond and saw
nothing but shoes, tires and whiskey bottles.

Maybe Renfro got it wrong.  Maybe she and Mark drank all of the whiskey in the bottles, and then ignored the trespassing signs but were too drunk to see anything.

[Kermit]

I was gone for the afternoon, but I'm back.

OK Kermie, I'm staying focused.  I don't want to stack the quotes, but I've been reading your first photos of the Holiday Inn and Urine's statements.  He was telling his friends and the MB girls that he would try to go to C&Cs that night.  It was Sunday night, so he must have been at the Holiday Inn outdoor bar late Sunday afternoon or early evening.  This was not the same day that Elizabeth Cain saw Natalee talking to a local man at the bar.  That was Saturday.  This local man is the one who I suspect is our 5th - the one who actually killed Natalee (if we believe Shango, Simian, and the rest of them).

Kyle described the day when the Dutch ship took the contents of the cage.  TES had identified the cage back in December and had notified Dave.  They lost a few weeks recovering the contents because they were sidetracked by someone who said that Natalee's body had been given to some drug dealers to dispose of in South America.  Tim and Dave checked the guy out and planned to meet him on the designated beach, but the guy never showed up.  The Persistence wasn't searching the day that ALE and the Dutch took the trap contents, so Kyle was watching from the beach.  For two days in a row, the coast guard ship went to the area where the crab trap was located and they confiscated the contents.  The Americans were given a fabric for analysis at Quantico.  According to the FBI report that we saw, the fabric did not match the fabric from Natalee's blouse.  It didn't say anything about denim.  We never received any further information about anything from the crab trap.

According to Kyle, the pond was scanned based on a tip.  We have pictures.  The sonar equipment identified objects.  Kyle told us that he receommended that the pond be drained in order to further examine the objects.  In the beginning of March, Chavez started acting up which was followed by the big strike.  Supposedly they couldn't drain the pond because the fire trucks were needed for the strike.  We learned that 40-50 Dutch forensic specialists arrived on the island with dogs that were trained for cadavers, drugs, and money.  The pond was chained off and suddenly drained.  We received pictures of the drained pond and the area that was scraped away next to the bucket.  We heard nothing about the results of the search until a while ago when Jossy stated that a shoe had been found in the pond.  ALE denied that the pond had been searched.  Was it Urine's shoe or Natalee's sandal? 

If Natalee is in the Masonic Lodge cemetery and her skull was in the crab trap, then she would have to be in two places??? 

Did the Monkeys ever get an answer to the analysis of the material found in the cage by the Persistence, but removed and secured by the Arubans? In Particular, the material that appeared to be blue denim?
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2979.220

[Magnolia]

Julia Renfro said that she and Mark Purcell climbed under the barrier and
ignored the No Trespessing signs and walked all through the pond and saw
nothing but shoes, tires and whiskey bottles.

Maybe Renfro got it wrong.  Maybe she and Mark drank all of the whiskey in the bottles, and then ignored the trespassing signs but were too drunk to see anything.

I think you hit the nail on the head, Klaas!

[Kermit]

Here I go again.  Two posts in a row.  One thing that bothers me is when things are starting to move again with the case; 1) witness coming forward 2) shoe found in pond? 3) articles coming out in Diario;  then old theories come back into play.  The crab trap findings were so hopeful and then it just kind of went away.  We never heard anything else about it.  Then we a new poster that says that the scene of the crime is VDS home and that the witness is lying.  So many theories.  If this witness had not come forward, would anything be happening in this case or be made public?  You have to wonder. 

 

It's only just begun baby!