Natalee Case Discussion #770 9/20/08 - 10/04/08

[Kermit]

WhiskeyGirl,  on previous page Kermit says that Kyle gave the shoe that was found in crab trap to the FBI.  He says (implies) it is Joran's missing K-Swiss.

 

No I said, that looks like a shoe in the cage!

Jan. 7th - "Neither Tim Miller, Tim Trahan, or Dateline were on board during this time."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.720

[Kermit]

If I remember correctly it ticked off Kyle also...

Yes it did.  Kyle or someone on Persistance may have been the ones who provided the photos to Robin.  In any case, it was foolish giving then to Robin and Robin was foolish posting them on the internet.

FBI provided them.
 

[Kermit]

Well, we are back to the one place that we have no control over in finding out information...the contents of the trap found by the Persistence.  I don't think we will ever know now, since Kyle clearly states that the contents were removed by ALE and no one seems to know where they are now.  I clearly remember Mos on that ship at one point...he knows what was in that trap and he's not going to release any info to anyone. 

I guess what we should think about here is could a trap as large as the one I saw in the video from the persistence actually fit on a boat the size of the Gottenbos and would the waters have been calm enough that night to make it out to the area they found it?  It seemed the water was pretty rough the entire time they were out there and they were in a very large ship...would it be possible to go out that far with seas that rough and dump a trap filled with a body?  I am thinking the answer is yes...but I don't know for sure.  Who would have the courage to carry it out that far?  If you go with the trap and boat scenario you have to disregard all the information about the pond.  If the trap was missing the next day...then she would have been taken out to sea the night before...within hours of daylight.  There are some things we know and the trap being missing is one of them...if it really was missing and only went missing the night before.  Just how reliable are those witnesses...I know they questioned the fishermen...it's in the Dr. Phil documents list but is it possible that they took her out that very night under cover of darkness and the Persistence found her and we still have nothing?  How do all the other things we know fit into this scenario?

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?t...1839#msg361839

[Kermit]

Natalee Holloway / LCD Archive / Re: Natalee Case Discussion #752 5-15-08  on: May 15, 2008, 07:31:03 PM 

Oceanexploration

Honestly it's hard to answer that question without mixing facts with speculation.  If you want my opinion for whatever it's worth, here it is.

From the beginning, the case was made very public and the cover-up started almost immediately, presumably to protect the tourism interests of the Island, if nothing else. The Persistence search was something of a turning point in the case in the way it was being handled.  Most people involved in the investigation from the beginning were replaced with others who are being heavily scrutinized to avoid further problems. 
If this case were being handled properly we should hear nothing until there were arrests.  All evidence and the investigation should be kept completely quiet until all the pieces are in place to make a proper arrest and charge all of the people involved.  I have good reason to believe this case is being handled better than before the Persistence search. 

- The investigative team is extensive and qualified from my understanding, though I am not in contact with them. 
- The Polis has spent something on the order of half their annual budget already just working on the Holloway case. 
- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52.  52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO. 
- Samples collected from the trap were sent to the FBI for analysis and they won't comment on the case at all. 
- The Monserat pond was searched after it was pumped dry.  No one is commenting on the pond search.
I trust most of the people now leading the investigation.  That's difficult to say across the boards, but I do trust most.  If the investigation is active and moving forward, I would expect silence and results over time.  How much time?  I wouldn't expect to hear anything by at least September but this is only a guess.  The fact that there is silence is either incouraging or discouraging depending on how you look at it.  If you're an optimist, silence means the investigation is proceeding carefully and quietly which is good.  If you're a pessimist, the silence means nothing is happening and the waiting will highly frustrate you.

Personally, I think it's a coin flip but am optimistic that at least the investigation into the investigation will be handled fully.



OK, we have at least two sources telling us that 40-50 foresenics people were brought in from Holland to search the pond.  But, the Dutch didn't search the pond?  Something doesn't make sense, based on what we have been led to believe.

Did the Monkeys ever get an answer to the analysis of the material found in the cage by the Persistence, but removed and secured by the Arubans? In Particular, the material that appeared to be blue denim?
scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2979.220

[SS]

Picture from DATELINE crab trap posted on SM


LOOKS LIKE A TENNIS SHOE



TIM SAYS IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL - WELL TIM I AGREE AND IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL AND ONE TENNIS SHOE!

ribbit

Another thought Kermie...

Why would a single tennis shoe be in a fish trap off the Aruban coast with the skeletal remains of a body?  Why the shoe?  If the shoe was lost, it was lost.  Nobody would put a single shoe with a corpse in a fish cage......  unless it was all planted there intentionally.
I think it was Bath who reported that the mate to the missing shoe was found in a closet at the Sloot home.  If the perps did still have the shoe, they would have destroyed it and not put it in a fish trap.  Also, the blue fabric that was found in the trap didn't match Natalee's clothing, nor did DNA found.  Why similar blue fabric?  Was that entire fish trap and it's contents a sham that was possibly setup to embarrass TES?  Was someone else's body put in that trap?  Is Jalitza Wever in that trap and Natalee in Jalitza's crypt?

[Lala'sMom]

Kermit
This is how I understand it as told to me by a very reliable source.

Kyle sent the photos to the FBI...
FBI sent them to family and was posted by Robin.
Kyle did not give anything to FBI...shoe or fabric or anything.
If anything was given to FBI it came from someone other than Kyle.
Kyle was blamed for leaking info and ultimately he was much more careful after that.
ALE and dive team obtained the crab trap and did not share it's contents with anyone. 

If any of this is incorrect please correct my errors.  Thanks Froggy!

[Kermit]

- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.     


- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52.  52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO. 

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.   


OK...so tell me...which is it...were they there or not?  Can't have it both ways...at least not without an explanation of the contradictions.

I agree Lala's and to me this is huge.  We have been under the impression that the Dutch took the contents of the cage and investigated the pond.  Apparently this isn't correct.  That leaves only ALE, TES, or the FBI as far as I can see it.  Something has to be going on that we aren't aware of.  Who has all of this evidence? 

They already recovered the trap (or processed the site) and don't want us to know for whatever reason, good or otherwise.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.740

Human remains were found,

[Lala'sMom]

Picture from DATELINE crab trap posted on SM


LOOKS LIKE A TENNIS SHOE



TIM SAYS IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL - WELL TIM I AGREE AND IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL AND ONE TENNIS SHOE!

ribbit

Another thought Kermie...

Why would a single tennis shoe be in a fish trap off the Aruban coast with the skeletal remains of a body?  Why the shoe?  If the shoe was lost, it was lost.  Nobody would put a single shoe with a corpse in a fish cage......  unless it was all planted there intentionally.
I think it was Bath who reported that the mate to the missing shoe was found in a closet at the Sloot home.  If the perps did still have the shoe, they would have destroyed it and not put it in a fish trap.  Also, the blue fabric that was found in the trap didn't match Natalee's clothing, nor did DNA found.  Why similar blue fabric?  Was that entire fish trap and it's contents a sham that was possibly setup to embarrass TES?  Was someone else's body put in that trap?  Is Jalitza Wever in that trap and Natalee in Jalitza's crypt?

And will we ever know for sure? 

[klaasend]

TIM MILLER should be on Dana Pretzer NEXT!

[Lala'sMom]

- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.     


- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52.  52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO. 

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.   


OK...so tell me...which is it...were they there or not?  Can't have it both ways...at least not without an explanation of the contradictions.

I agree Lala's and to me this is huge.  We have been under the impression that the Dutch took the contents of the cage and investigated the pond.  Apparently this isn't correct.  That leaves only ALE, TES, or the FBI as far as I can see it.  Something has to be going on that we aren't aware of.  Who has all of this evidence? 

They already recovered the trap (or processed the site) and don't want us to know for whatever reason, good or otherwise.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.740

Human remains were found,

Now who said that?  Where is that written as fact that human remains were found?  I know this answer, but others may not.  Please elaborate.

[Kermit]

Kermit
This is how I understand it as told to me by a very reliable source.

Kyle sent the photos to the FBI...
FBI sent them to family and was posted by Robin.
Kyle did not give anything to FBI...shoe or fabric or anything.
If anything was given to FBI it came from someone other than Kyle.
Kyle was blamed for leaking info and ultimately he was much more careful after that.
ALE and dive team obtained the crab trap and did not share it's contents with anyone. 

If any of this is incorrect please correct my errors.  Thanks Froggy!

I concur with everything except number uno and number six.
Look at the picture I posted of the dive team.

[Kermit]

- No one said the 40-52 (whatever) investigators from Holland ever stepped foot in or near the pond.  The timing is coincident.  Did anyone see these investigators anywhere near the pond?  I don't think so.     


- I know at least 40 investigators were brought in from Holland in regards to the investigation, though Caps quotes 52.  52 or 40, I don't know but it's a lot of man power for a case recently reopened from a cold-case IMO. 

I'm sure you've already heard, but the pond is ropped off and now dry.  40 investigators from Holland were brought in related to the case.  No word on the outcome yet.   


OK...so tell me...which is it...were they there or not?  Can't have it both ways...at least not without an explanation of the contradictions.

I agree Lala's and to me this is huge.  We have been under the impression that the Dutch took the contents of the cage and investigated the pond.  Apparently this isn't correct.  That leaves only ALE, TES, or the FBI as far as I can see it.  Something has to be going on that we aren't aware of.  Who has all of this evidence? 

They already recovered the trap (or processed the site) and don't want us to know for whatever reason, good or otherwise.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.740

Human remains were found,

Now who said that?  Where is that written as fact that human remains were found?  I know this answer, but others may not.  Please elaborate.

scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.700

[Lala'sMom]

Kermit
This is how I understand it as told to me by a very reliable source.

Kyle sent the photos to the FBI...
FBI sent them to family and was posted by Robin.
Kyle did not give anything to FBI...shoe or fabric or anything.
If anything was given to FBI it came from someone other than Kyle.
Kyle was blamed for leaking info and ultimately he was much more careful after that.
ALE and dive team obtained the crab trap and did not share it's contents with anyone. 

If any of this is incorrect please correct my errors.  Thanks Froggy!

I concur with everything except number uno and number six.
Look at the picture I posted of the dive team.

So who sent the photos to the FBI?  I know that is who sent them to the family.

[Kermit]

Picture from DATELINE crab trap posted on SM


LOOKS LIKE A TENNIS SHOE



TIM SAYS IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL - WELL TIM I AGREE AND IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL AND ONE TENNIS SHOE!

ribbit

Another thought Kermie...

Why would a single tennis shoe be in a fish trap off the Aruban coast with the skeletal remains of a body?  Why the shoe?  If the shoe was lost, it was lost.  Nobody would put a single shoe with a corpse in a fish cage......  unless it was all planted there intentionally.
I think it was Bath who reported that the mate to the missing shoe was found in a closet at the Sloot home.  If the perps did still have the shoe, they would have destroyed it and not put it in a fish trap.  Also, the blue fabric that was found in the trap didn't match Natalee's clothing, nor did DNA found.  Why similar blue fabric?  Was that entire fish trap and it's contents a sham that was possibly setup to embarrass TES?  Was someone else's body put in that trap?  Is Jalitza Wever in that trap and Natalee in Jalitza's crypt?

Your tennis shoe inside the cage with the body would insure you would not point a finger at me.
Afterall, the evidence with the dead body disposed of is yours.

[Lala'sMom]

OOPS!  I forgot...didn't Kyle tell us that ALE recovered the trap and he has no idea what happened to it after that?  Hmmm.  I thought I read that...somewhere here.  Oh well...guess not.

[Kermit]

Picture from DATELINE crab trap posted on SM


LOOKS LIKE A TENNIS SHOE



TIM SAYS IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL - WELL TIM I AGREE AND IT LOOKS LIKE A SKULL AND ONE TENNIS SHOE!

ribbit

Another thought Kermie...

Why would a single tennis shoe be in a fish trap off the Aruban coast with the skeletal remains of a body?  Why the shoe?  If the shoe was lost, it was lost.  Nobody would put a single shoe with a corpse in a fish cage......  unless it was all planted there intentionally.
I think it was Bath who reported that the mate to the missing shoe was found in a closet at the Sloot home.  If the perps did still have the shoe, they would have destroyed it and not put it in a fish trap.  Also, the blue fabric that was found in the trap didn't match Natalee's clothing, nor did DNA found.  Why similar blue fabric?  Was that entire fish trap and it's contents a sham that was possibly setup to embarrass TES?  Was someone else's body put in that trap?  Is Jalitza Wever in that trap and Natalee in Jalitza's crypt?

And will we ever know for sure? 

I believe the truth will be exposed.

[Lala'sMom]

OK someone explain this to me...

There is a shoe in the closet....a shoe in the trap....a shoe in the pond....I don't know but my math is not that bad that I can't see three shoes in this scenario. 

[Kermit]

OOPS!  I forgot...didn't Kyle tell us that ALE recovered the trap and he has no idea what happened to it after that?  Hmmm.  I thought I read that...somewhere here.  Oh well...guess not.

On the 11th and 12th, I noticed the Dutch coast guard vessel at or VERY near the trap site.

The vessel was on that spot for 42 minutes that day and about the same duration the next day

-When I returned to the Persistence (14-Jan) there were no more talks about a trap recovery. When I pressed the issue, I was told "they're no longer interested in the trap or it's recovery".

[Lala'sMom]

Kermie
I certainly am waiting for that truth as well as justice for the family.  That will be a good day for everyone...except maybe the Sloots.

[SS]

Kermit - the answer to your question is, NO.  We never did get any information about the denim that was found in the trap.


I also recall reading somewhere that it was Jossy's son with a group of other divers who examined the contents of the fish cage.  Is it possible that ALE weren't the ones who took the contents of the cage?  Does Jossy have the contents of the cage?