Home
Blog
Radio
Missing Persons
Crime
March 28, 2024, 03:24:56 PM
Welcome,
Guest
. Please
login
or
register
.
1 Hour
1 Day
1 Week
1 Month
Forever
Login with username, password and session length
News
:
NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
Home
Help
Login
Register
Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
>
Current Events and Musings
>
Political Forum
> Topic:
Oil, OPEC, and "Free Markets"
Pages:
1
Go Down
« previous
next »
Print
Author
Topic: Oil, OPEC, and "Free Markets" (Read 3432 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 7754
Oil, OPEC, and "Free Markets"
«
on:
September 17, 2008, 09:13:13 PM »
I saw this article and was reminded that the oil market is not really a 'free market' at all...imho.
How to achieve energy independence? Invest, baby, invest
By Jeff Bridges 9/17/08 3:05 PM
As reported in the Colorado Independent today, the Natural Resources Defense Council (NRDC) thinks 32,000 jobs would come to Colorado through a $100 billion government investment in the “greenvolution” (I made that word up, not NRDC, though it does get 338 hits on Google). With all the renewable research already taking place in Colorado I think that number could go way higher, but more importantly an investment in new energy technology would put America on track for continued economic dominance in this next major world industry.
During...a recent conversation between two of my favorite authors/analysts, Thomas Friedman and Fareed Zakaria, neither of them held back when describing the expected scale of this new industry.
They agreed that the new energy economy will be “enormous, it’s actually going to dwarf all the others,” calling it “the next great global industry.” The way Friedman put it, whichever nation takes the lead will “enjoy more national security, more economic security, more economic growth, a healthier population, and greater global respect, for that matter, as well.”
From their discussion:
Friedman: What I said to young Chinese most recently when I was just in China is this: Every time I come to China, young Chinese say to me, “Mr. Friedman, your country grew dirty for 150 years. Now it’s our turn.” And I say to them, “Yes, you’re absolutely right, it’s your turn. Grow as dirty as you want. Take your time.
Because I think we probably just need about five years to invent all the new clean power technologies you’re going to need as you choke to death, and we’re going to come and sell them to you. And we’re going to clean your clock in the next great global industry. So please, take your time. If you want to give us a five-year lead in the next great global industry, I will take five. If you want to give us ten, that would be even better.
But neither Friedman nor Zakaria believe America currently has the mechanisms in place to dominate this industry. I’m usually all for the free market doing its thing, but sometimes we need a political push to overcome entrenched interests.
As Zakaria and Friedman put it:
Zakaria: The rhetoric we hear is that the market should produce new energy technologies.
But the problem is, the use of current forms of energy has an existing infrastructure with very powerful interests that has ensured that the government tilt the playing field in their favor, with subsidies, tax breaks, infrastructure spending, etc.
This is one area where the Europeans have actually been very far-sighted and have pushed their economies toward the future.
Friedman: I would say that’s exactly right. It’s the Europeans — and the Japanese as well — who’ve done it and they’ve done it because of the government mechanisms you’ve highlighted. They have understood that, if you just say the market alone will deliver the green revolution we need, basically three things happen and none of them are good: First, the market will drive up the price to whatever level demand dictates.
We saw oil hit $145 a barrel, and when that happens the oil-producing countries capture most of the profit, 90% of it. So, some of the worst regimes in the world enjoy the biggest benefits from the market run-up.
The second thing that happens is that the legacy oil, gas and coal companies get the other ten percent of the profit — so companies which have no interest in changing the system get stronger
. And the third thing that happens is something that doesn’t happen: because you’re letting the market alone shape the prices, the market price can go up and down very quickly.
So, those who want to invest in the alternatives really have to worry that if they make big investments, the market price for oil may fall back on them before their industry has had a chance to move down the learning curve and make renewable energies competitive with oil.
…Bush and Cheney may say the oil market is “free,” but that is a joke. It’s dominated by the world’s biggest cartel, OPEC, and America’s biggest energy companies, and they’ve shaped this market to serve their interests. Unless government comes in and reshapes it, we’re never going to launch this industry. Which is one of the reasons I argue in the book, “Change your leaders, not your light bulbs.”
Because leaders write rules, rules shape markets, markets give you scale.
(snip)
...Imagine where we’d be with a President who actually made this a priority!
For less than what we spend on just a year in Iraq, Americans could eliminate our dependence on foreign oil and build the technologies the rest of the world will use for generations to come.
(snip)
Colorado Independent’s blogumnist (blogger-columnist) Jeff Bridges has worked in Democratic politics for the last 10 years, serving as communications director for two congressional races in Colorado and two governor’s races in the Deep South. Bridges also worked as a legislative assistant in Washington, D.C., with a focus on military and small business issues.
http://www.coloradoindependent.com/8553/how-to-achieve-energy-independence-invest-baby-invest/
IIRC, Barack Obama had made US freedom from foreign oil dependency a 10 year goal.
John McCain supports more oil drilling, but I haven't seen his plan focus on eliminating the dependency on foreign oil.
The oil markets do not operate in a 'free market' manner. Someone, somewhere suggested this was a "transfer of wealth" involving the American people. I agree.
I can see a future where Americans have small wind mills or solar cells that charge the fuel cells of their vehicles. Just pop one in a drive, and have another one at home charging at the same time.
Buses, trains, and other vehicles could be run on solar panels, or fuel cells. For those that travel long distances, perhaps fueling stations with new ideas.
Logged
All my posts are just my humble opinions. Please take with a grain of salt.
It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
nonesuche
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 8878
Re: Oil, OPEC, and "Free Markets"
«
Reply #1 on:
September 18, 2008, 10:40:39 PM »
I drove behind a new "smart" car today and I was jealous that I didn't have one. I'm six feet tall, never did I dream I'd long to tuck myself into such a tiny car but I'd also just filled up my 'green' 4cylinder Patriot. Currently our state attorney is sending out subpoena's the the gas gougers last week, who raised regular to almost $5/gallon in our state.
I have to disagree that alternative energy infrastructure and product could be completed on the budget of what the US spends on foreign oil in one year, I think that's a very surface view of the actual costs of not just developing and refining those sources but also bringing them to market rapidly.
Indeed however, alternative energy will be the next great global industry, that I do agree with.
Logged
I continue to stand with the girl.
WhiskeyGirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
Offline
Posts: 7754
Re: Oil, OPEC, and "Free Markets"
«
Reply #2 on:
September 19, 2008, 09:04:23 AM »
Quote from: nonesuche on September 18, 2008, 10:40:39 PM
I drove behind a new "smart" car today and I was jealous that I didn't have one. I'm six feet tall, never did I dream I'd long to tuck myself into such a tiny car but I'd also just filled up my 'green' 4cylinder Patriot. Currently our state attorney is sending out subpoena's the the gas gougers last week, who raised regular to almost $5/gallon in our state.
I have to disagree that alternative energy infrastructure and product could be completed on the budget of what the US spends on foreign oil in one year, I think that's a very surface view of the actual costs of not just developing and refining those sources but also bringing them to market rapidly.
Indeed however, alternative energy will be the next great global industry, that I do agree with.
I think about the infrastructure that already exists and how it has changed and been added to over the years.
Many existing gas stations, and other places of business have added small tanks for BBQs over the past five to ten years. This is a tank exchange program. Take your empty tank in and exchange it for a full one. No need to stop somewhere and have your old tank filled. The gas stations and other stores (grocery, convenience, hardware, etc.) already exist, they just added a locked place for tanks.
If business can do it for BBQ tanks, I think it would be a simple thing to add fuel cells.
I've noticed the same thing with bagged ice. It's everywhere.
We already have an electrical grid available because it is currently in use. When they add new power plants, they do not rebuild or create a new grid, they just add it to the existing grid.
New construction can be build efficient. There are homes currently being built that take less than $400 to heat or cool for the year. I believe the know-how and technology already exists, people just have to start using it.
$400/year houses (used to be $200 & $100) ~
http://www.bigelowhomes.com/
http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/94/940308.html
http://www.americanhomeguides.com/community/HPC-11494.html
http://www.dom.com/customer/efficiency/res/new_home.jsp
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122168909763849615.html
Logged
All my posts are just my humble opinions. Please take with a grain of salt.
It doesn't do any good to hate anyone,
they'll end up in your family anyway...
Pages:
1
Go Up
Print
Scared Monkeys Discussion Forum
>
Current Events and Musings
>
Political Forum
> Topic:
Oil, OPEC, and "Free Markets"
« previous
next »
Jump to:
Please select a destination:
-----------------------------
FORUM RULES
-----------------------------
=> Forum Rules and Tips
-----------------------------
Polls, Polls and more Polls
-----------------------------
=> Missing Persons Polls
=> Current Events/News Polls
=> Crime and Trial Polls
=> Just For Fun Polls
-----------------------------
Missing Persons - High Profile
-----------------------------
=> Missing Persons High Profile
===> Dylan Redwine, 13yrs old, last seen 11/19/12, Vallecito, CO
===> Kyron Horman - Portland Oregon
===> Caylee Marie Anthony - Florida (BODY FOUND)
=====> Caylee's Law - by State
=======> Caylee's Law - text
=======> ALABAMA
=======> ALASKA
=======> ARIZONA
=======> ARKANSAS
=======> CALIFORNIA
=======> COLORADO
=======> CONNECTICUT
=======> DELAWARE
=======> DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
=======> FLORIDA
=======> GEORGIA
=======> HAWAII
=======> IDAHO
=======> ILLINOIS
=======> INDIANA
=======> IOWA
=======> KANSAS
=======> KENTUCKY
=======> LOUISIANA
=======> MAINE
=======> MARYLAND
=======> MASSACHUSETTS
=======> MICHIGAN
=======> MINNESOTA
=======> MISSISSIPPI
=======> MISSOURI
=======> MONTANA
=======> NEBRASKA
=======> NEVADA
=======> NEW HAMPSHIRE
=======> NEW JERSEY
=======> NEW MEXICO
=======> NEW YORK
=======> NORTH CAROLINA
=======> NORTH DAKOTA
=======> OHIO
=======> OKLAHOMA
=======> OREGON
=======> PENNSYLVANIA
=======> PUERTO RICO
=======> RHODE ISLAND
=======> SOUTH CAROLINA
=======> SOUTH DAKOTA
=======> TENNESSEE
=======> TEXAS
=======> UTAH
=======> VERMONT
=======> VIRGINIA
=======> WASHINGTON
=======> WEST VIRGINIA
=======> WISCONSIN
=======> WYOMING
=====> Caylee Marie Anthony Murder Trial Archives
===> Sierra Lamar, 15yrs old, Morgan Hill, CA Missing Since March 16, 2012
===> JO ANN (JODIE) BAIN AND 3 DAUGHTERS MISSING 4/27/2012(2 murdered 2 safe)
===> Isabel Mercedes Celis, 6 yrs old missing 4/21/12 Tucson, AZ (Body Found)
===> Jennifer Kesse - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Susan Powell 28yrs old, missing 12/6/09 West Valley City, Utah
===> Michelle Loree Parker, Last Seen 11/17/11, Orlando, FL
===> Celina Cass, 11yrs old missing 7/25/11 New Hampshire
===> Aliayah Lunsford, 3yrs old, Weston, West VA, missing since 9/24/2011
===> Lisa Irwin, 10mo old missing since 10/4/2011 KC, MO
===> Robyn Gardner missing in Aruba August 2, 2011
=> Missing Persons - High Profile - Archives
-----------------------------
Virginia Area Missing and Murdered - possible connections
-----------------------------
=> Morgan Dana Harrington, 20yrs missing VA Tech 10/17/09(BODY FOUND)
=> Hannah Elizabeth Graham missing since 9/13/14 Charlottesville, VA
=> Alexis Murphy, missing since 8/3/13 Charlottesville, VA
=> Samantha Ann Clarke 19yrs. old Orange Va. Last seen 09/13/10
=> Dashad Sage Smith missing since 11/20/12 Charlottesville, VA
=> Cassandra Morton 23, Lynchburg, missing 10/10/09 body found 11/29/09
-----------------------------
High Profile Crimes and Trials (not missing persons)
-----------------------------
=> Jodi Arias trial - for the murder of Travis Alexander
=> Trial of George Zimmerman - 2nd Degree Murder of 17yr old Trayvon Martin
=> Scott Peterson Appeal of Murder Conviction
-----------------------------
Missing, Exploited and True Crime
-----------------------------
=> Missing Exploited and True Crime
===> Missing Persons Forum
=====> Missing Found or Presumed Deceased
=====> Missing Found Safe
=====> Missing Endangered Runaways
=====> Resourses, Search Groups and Fundraisers
===> Crimes Against Children, Elderly and the Disabled
===> Crimes of Passion/Anger
===> Serial Killers and Their Possible Victims
===> Unsolved Crimes
=====> Finally Solved
===> Haleigh Marie Cummings - Florida
===> Adji Desir - Florida
===> Somer Renee Thompson 7 yo, Orange Park FL 10/19/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Tracy Ocasio - Orlando/Ocoee, Florida
===> Shaniya Nicole Davis, 5 Fayetteville, NC Missing 11/10/09(BODY FOUND)
===> Holly Bobo, 20yrs old missing Parsons, TN 4/13/11
===> Hailey Dunn - 13yrs old - Colorado City, TX missing 12/27/10 (Body Found)
===> Elizabeth Olten - 9yrs, Jefferson City, MO missing 10/21/09 (BODY FOUND)
===> Lindsey Baum - McCleary, WA 6/26/09
===> Amber Leeanne Dubois 14yrs old - Escondido, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Chelsea King, 17, Missing 2-25-2010 Rancho Bernadino CA (BODY FOUND)
===> Sandra Cantu, 8 years old - Tracy, CA(BODY FOUND)
===> Madeleine McCann - Portugal
===> Christine Marie Sheddy - missing since 11/13/2007 - Maryland(BODY FOUND)
===> Nevaeh Amyah Buchanan 5yr Monroe Michigan(BODY FOUND)
===> Gabriel Johnson 8 mo., last seen 12/26/09 Tempe AZ-San Antonio TX
===> Stacy Ann Peterson missing & Kathleen Savio murdered - Illinois
===> Zahra Clare Baker - 10yrs old Hickory, NC (Body Found)
-----------------------------
Natalee Holloway
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Important Case Documents
===> Joran Statements/PV's
===> Paulus Statements/PV's
===> Deepak Statements/PV's
===> Satish Statements/PV's
===> Misc Statements/PV's
=> LCD Archive
=> Shango/Simian and other Codetalkers
-----------------------------
Current Events and Musings
-----------------------------
=> Monkey Musings / Open Discussion
=> Pop Culture Main
===> Hugely Popular TV Shows
===> Movies and Television
===> Social Media
===> Music
===> Books
===> Scared Monkeys Radio with Dana Pretzer
=> Health and Medical Issues
=> Food and Product Recalls
=> News of the Day
=> Business News
=> Sports
=> Political Forum
=> Religion (discussion and debate)
-----------------------------
The Monkey Lounge
-----------------------------
=> The Monkey Lounge
===> Fashion & Decorating
===> What's Cooking? Recipes
===> Games
=> Inspirational
===> Memorial - Gone but Never Forgotten
===> Gratefulness - Light a Candle in Prayer
===> Inspirational scriptures, songs, stories and prayers
-----------------------------
Natalee Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> Natalee Holloway
=> Theory and Speculation
=> Links and References Only
=> Natalee Breaking News Archive
-----------------------------
General Discussions (2005 ARCHIVE)
-----------------------------
=> News Issues
=> Chit Chat
Loading...