March 29, 2024, 08:41:30 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #523a 9/12 - 9/15/2006 (use this one)  (Read 115128 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
San
Super Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15883



« Reply #100 on: September 13, 2006, 05:31:35 PM »

Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "Tylergal"

None, that is what I too have wondered.

PS.  Shizaru, if it was not GVC, who was it?

I have no idea.  Doesn't have to be anyone we've heard of, could have been some random guy who looks like GVC.  I just don't think it's likely that GVC would deny ever meeting Natalee if he had been involved in such a public altercation with her.  Altho I have a easier time believing that, then I do that whoever it was punched her in the face.  She has bo bruises in subsequent photos.  It's farfetched that a guy would punch a girl he doesn't know, in a public place where a couple dozen of her male classmates are present, just for not dancing with him.  And if he did the result would probably be him getting beaten up pretty badly, not a minor "scuffle".   And also it's an improbable coincidence that, assuming Natalee was killed by Joran, she would have been physically assaulted by two different Dutch guys angry at being turned down, in as many days.


From what we were told he groped Natalee and she shoved him.  She probably embarrassed him in front of his friends and he got pissed off and hit her.  I believe it is quite possible that he did hit her especially if this kid has problems.  These kids today don't care if they hit a girl or not.  Just the way Natalee's friends were there so was GVC's.  He has a reputation to uphold in front of his friends and that's why he might have hit her because they were laughing at him.
Logged
thirdstrike
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2945



« Reply #101 on: September 13, 2006, 05:39:53 PM »

Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "Tylergal"

None, that is what I too have wondered.

PS.  Shizaru, if it was not GVC, who was it?

I have no idea.  Doesn't have to be anyone we've heard of, could have been some random guy who looks like GVC.  I just don't think it's likely that GVC would deny ever meeting Natalee if he had been involved in such a public altercation with her.  Altho I have a easier time believing that, then I do that whoever it was punched her in the face.  She has bo bruises in subsequent photos.  It's farfetched that a guy would punch a girl he doesn't know, in a public place where a couple dozen of her male classmates are present, just for not dancing with him.  And if he did the result would probably be him getting beaten up pretty badly, not a minor "scuffle".   And also it's an improbable coincidence that, assuming Natalee was killed by Joran, she would have been physically assaulted by two different Dutch guys angry at being turned down, in as many days.


From what we were told he groped Natalee and she shoved him.  She probably embarrassed him in front of his friends and he got pissed off and hit her.  I believe it is quite possible that he did hit her especially if this kid has problems.  These kids today don't care if they hit a girl or not.  Just the way Natalee's friends were there so was GVC's.  He has a reputation to uphold in front of his friends and that's why he might have hit her because they were laughing at him.


I would tend to agree with Shizaru here.  It's not logical to believe that someone would so adamantly deny ever meeting someone...especially in a case so publicly scrutinized...if he was involved in such an obvious, violent episode in the presence of so many witnesses.  But, then again...who knows.  The logical is often deemed illogical in Aruba... Rolling Eyes
Logged
San
Super Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15883



« Reply #102 on: September 13, 2006, 05:48:24 PM »

Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "Shizaru"
I have no idea.  Doesn't have to be anyone we've heard of, could have been some random guy who looks like GVC.  I just don't think it's likely that GVC would deny ever meeting Natalee if he had been involved in such a public altercation with her.  Altho I have a easier time believing that, then I do that whoever it was punched her in the face.  She has bo bruises in subsequent photos.  It's farfetched that a guy would punch a girl he doesn't know, in a public place where a couple dozen of her male classmates are present, just for not dancing with him.  And if he did the result would probably be him getting beaten up pretty badly, not a minor "scuffle".   And also it's an improbable coincidence that, assuming Natalee was killed by Joran, she would have been physically assaulted by two different Dutch guys angry at being turned down, in as many days.


From what we were told he groped Natalee and she shoved him.  She probably embarrassed him in front of his friends and he got pissed off and hit her.  I believe it is quite possible that he did hit her especially if this kid has problems.  These kids today don't care if they hit a girl or not.  Just the way Natalee's friends were there so was GVC's.  He has a reputation to uphold in front of his friends and that's why he might have hit her because they were laughing at him.


I would tend to agree with Shizaru here.  It's not logical to believe that someone would so adamantly deny ever meeting someone...especially in a case so publicly scrutinized...if he was involved in such an obvious, violent episode in the presence of so many witnesses.  But, then again...who knows.  The logical is often deemed illogical in Aruba... Rolling Eyes
Exactly.  This kid new he didn't have to answer any questions.  He knows the routine of the case.  After all daddy is the head of the security team.
Logged
2NJSons_Mom
Monkey All Star
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11324



« Reply #103 on: September 13, 2006, 05:55:38 PM »

Quote from: "Frijole"
Good Morning Gang...

I believe there was some discussion about this quote last night... I had saved it.  

Quote:

bakabl wrote:Frist Im vary sorry to hear of the vary sad case of Natalee Holloway in such a wonderful place like Aruba but it could happen anywere at any time. There are a few questions that need to be asked of the two men that the FBI are questioning - 1st ask them about the drink that was given to Natalee around 3:15am Aruba Time the morring Natalee never retyrn to her hotel and ask them about what the drug was in the drink that Natalee drunk without her knowing. 2nd ask them about the boat and the 2-1/2 mile trip they took.

They should break dowm and tell the truth about are were Natalee can be found.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:33RgJa7V6I4J:websleuths.com/forums/


Thank you for this, Frijole.  Now, seeing it, I remember trying to figure out if the writer was from within the group the suspects hung around with......

Hello, everyone.   Yap & Easy share same b-day with my SIL & Nephew, respectively.  

Good to see Tylergal back, sharp as a tack.  Wink
Logged

R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
Shell
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3550



« Reply #104 on: September 13, 2006, 06:17:45 PM »

Quote from: "Leslie"
I quit smoking yesterday at 10 AM - cold turkey.   Nicotine is a terrible drug to be addicted to and the withdrawal symptons are so unpleasant; I could barely think straight this morning.  

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

GMA message board.
http://forums.go.com/abcnews/GMA/forum?start=0&forumID=7


Leslie, that means we quit on the same day. What a coinsidence! I wish you luck on this, it is very hard.
Logged

*Avatar courtesy of CBB, a very talented and sweet monkey. Peaches and 2NJ, may you rest in peace. You will never be forgotten.
thirdstrike
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2945



« Reply #105 on: September 13, 2006, 06:28:52 PM »

Quote from: "Shell"
Quote from: "Leslie"
I quit smoking yesterday at 10 AM - cold turkey.   Nicotine is a terrible drug to be addicted to and the withdrawal symptons are so unpleasant; I could barely think straight this morning.  

Diario
http://www.diarioaruba.com/
Amigoe
http://www.amigoe.com/english/
BonDia
http://www.cspnv.com/
Solo di Pueblo
http://www.solodipueblo.com/
Translator:
http://papiamentu.donamaro.nl

GMA message board.
http://forums.go.com/abcnews/GMA/forum?start=0&forumID=7


Leslie, that means we quit on the same day. What a coinsidence! I wish you luck on this, it is very hard.


I actually quit smoking 26 months ago.  Cold turkey.  And, it wasn't even hard for me.  How?  Well, since we're on the (off) topic...

I was having a pre-op physical with my Dr.  She asked me if I had smoked, and how much.  Now, of course...everyone answers this questions by fibbing a little by way of decreasing the numbers, you know?  So, when I told her about 5-6 a day (which you could probably mutliply that by 2), she answered me by advising me she could tell because there were faint black spots on my chest x-ray sheet.  It wans't a big deal then, she said.  But, if I continued, it could develop into something.  Now, I'm too young to be worrying about black spots in my lungs.  So, I left the office...smoked one final cigarette, and that was it!  That was in July of 2004, and I have never relapsed...

Just thought I'd share...Wink
Logged
Spock
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 840



« Reply #106 on: September 13, 2006, 06:34:37 PM »

Quote from: "Shizaru"
Quote from: "Spock"
Quote from: "Anna"
.
Spock,
So who is the connection between Steve Croes and Geoffrey von Cromfroit?  You didn't ever tell us the answer to your question. I would like to know what the connection is as well as I don't want to just guess who it is.  


Good question Anna. What I was trying to say is that Steve Croes and Geoffrey Cromvoirt are more closely tied to Deepak Kalpoe than to Joran. I suspect this Steve Croes that Deepak says was at Carlos and Charlies that night, may have been one of the two "dogs" Joran said Deepak brought to the beach. He may be involved, it is unlikely he gave the suspects an alibi "out of the blue".  Also, there are pictures of Steve and Geoffrey together, so I speculate the second "dog" may have been Geoffrey. It could, of couse have been someone else. I think the "key" here is that Deepak did not have to be at work until late Monday, Satish and Croes either missed work or school the next day, and Geoffrey is tied closely to Croes. I suspect a "second group" went back to the beach, and I recall Dompig shared this idea with us last Fall.


Where does Deepak say that S. Croes was at CnCs that night?  In one of his statements he says Croes told him he was, but Croes is probably lying about that just like he was lying about seeing the HI dropoff.  I don't think Deepak ever said he saw Creos at CnCs that night himself.  And I don't believe either Croes or GVC ever met Natalee or has a thing to do with what happened to her.


Read the statements again:

Deepak and Satish are placing Steve Croes at Carlos & Charlies the late evening of May 29th:

Deepak declared:

"To your question as to where Steve was to have been able to see to see all of this, I can state the following. I didn't ask him where he was in order to have seen all of this. He also told me that he had not been into work that day. He instead had been at "Carlos & Charlies" and because of that he was in two minds about going to the police because he feared loosing his job."

Satish declared:

"According to my brother Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve also had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee."
Logged

In My Opinion
Angiex911dsptchr
Monkey All Star
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11005



« Reply #107 on: September 13, 2006, 06:36:15 PM »

THIRD..   Congrats to you. I wish I could quit. My hubby did cold turkey 2 months ago. Now its my turn someday. I have to do it when I am ready and not be forced into like he trys to do to me.
Logged
Sue
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 1983



« Reply #108 on: September 13, 2006, 06:40:11 PM »

Shell and Leslie
I wanna wish you good luck with that NO SMOKING  Very Happy
I tried that once I was going to commit murder so I smoked again Crying or Very sad
Logged

Joran, Deepak & Satish You F***ers will never be worth anything in your life ever
thirdstrike
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2945



« Reply #109 on: September 13, 2006, 06:42:04 PM »

Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
THIRD..   Congrats to you. I wish I could quit. My hubby did cold turkey 2 months ago. Now its my turn someday. I have to do it when I am ready and not be forced into like he trys to do to me.


That's why it finally worked for me Ang!  I had tried on numerous ocassions to quit for other people, but was never able to stick with it.  But, once I had decided I needed to quit for myself, it was a lot easier then you would think.  I believe that's the key.  You have to want to do it for yourself, and nobody else...

How you doin', BTW??
Logged
LilPuma
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 2922



« Reply #110 on: September 13, 2006, 06:49:53 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
.
In re-reading Satish's original statement as a witness, I did find where he says he and Deepak waited alone in Joran's apartment while Joran went to the "Big House" to print out his homework.  This would eliminate the computer in Joran's apartment or at least the printer there as I had thought existed.

This does surprise me for I would think three boys and one computer would make for very contentious household.  Maybe that explains some of the fighting.   Rolling Eyes   Don't think that would have worked at my house, at least not very well.

.


Ok, so the only computer is in the main house.  Joran is out all evening, has a few drinks, forgets most of the details of the 1:15 to 3:30 time frame, gets home, goes into the main house, checks sports scores, a porn site, then walks back to his apartment?  Neither Paulus nor his brother woke up when he came in and got on the computer, or when he left to go to his apartment.  They can't vouch for what time he was around.  Possible, but sure seems unlikely.  If his parents were anyone but Paulus and Anita, I'd say the parents would object to the porn, but I'd guess P&A are into it too.
Logged

Our deeds are seeds and by them, we plant the world we will walk through tomorrow
Spock
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 840



« Reply #111 on: September 13, 2006, 06:52:18 PM »

Deepak and Satish are placing Steve Croes at Carlos & Charlies the late evening of May 29th:

Deepak declared:

"To your question as to where Steve was to have been able to see to see all of this, I can state the following. I didn't ask him where he was in order to have seen all of this. He also told me that he had not been into work that day. He instead had been at "Carlos & Charlies" and because of that he was in two minds about going to the police because he feared loosing his job."

Satish declared:

"According to my brother Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve also had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee."


Joran declared:


On my question to Joran whether he can tell me what happened after the girl had fallen asleep on the beach near Fisherman's Hut, he answered:

“I called DEEPAK and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her.”

To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
 
“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”

My read is that Joran left the girl on the beach and one of the Kalpoes and "two dogs",  one of which could have been Croes then found her there. Explains alot.
Logged

In My Opinion
Angiex911dsptchr
Monkey All Star
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11005



« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2006, 06:56:26 PM »

Quote from: "thirdstrike"
Quote from: "Angiex911dsptchr"
THIRD..   Congrats to you. I wish I could quit. My hubby did cold turkey 2 months ago. Now its my turn someday. I have to do it when I am ready and not be forced into like he trys to do to me.


That's why it finally worked for me Ang!  I had tried on numerous ocassions to quit for other people, but was never able to stick with it.  But, once I had decided I needed to quit for myself, it was a lot easier then you would think.  I believe that's the key.  You have to want to do it for yourself, and nobody else...

How you doin', BTW??


 YEP I agree with you there.. gotta do it for yourself!
I am doing fine.. working alot. How about yourself?
How is ball coming along for you?
Logged
Angiex911dsptchr
Monkey All Star
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11005



« Reply #113 on: September 13, 2006, 07:00:04 PM »

Interesting Spock...
Part of me though thinks they never went to the beach though.
I change my mind alot... in all honesty.
Logged
Spock
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 840



« Reply #114 on: September 13, 2006, 07:11:32 PM »

Quote from: "Spock"
Deepak and Satish are placing Steve Croes at Carlos & Charlies the late evening of May 29th:

Deepak declared:

"To your question as to where Steve was to have been able to see to see all of this, I can state the following. I didn't ask him where he was in order to have seen all of this. He also told me that he had not been into work that day. He instead had been at "Carlos & Charlies" and because of that he was in two minds about going to the police because he feared loosing his job."

Satish declared:

"According to my brother Steve had told him that he had dropped off people at the Holiday Inn on Monday May 30th at approximately 01.45 hours. My brother has also told me that Steve was also in Carlos & Charlies that night. My brother also told me that Steve also had seen us coming out of Carlos & Charlies with the girl Natalee."


Joran declared:


On my question to Joran whether he can tell me what happened after the girl had fallen asleep on the beach near Fisherman's Hut, he answered:

“I called DEEPAK and he came with two dogs. I think he raped the girl and did something to her.”

To my question where the girl was buried then, he answered:
 
“I think that it was buried then next to the wall of the Fisherman's Hut, for the rest I would not know either.”

My read is that Joran left the girl on the beach and one of the Kalpoes and "two dogs",  one of which could have been Croes then found her there. Explains alot.


Steve Croes didn't give a false alibi "out of the blue" for people he didn't know on a night he was supposed to be at work. Steve placed his job in jeopardy (and was fired for it) for a reason and the likely reason is that he was involved. This theory also opens up the timeline by hours, the Kalpoes claim they were home sleeping until 11 am, and that allows lots of time to hide the evidence. Satish and Steve missed work work the next day and Deepak worked the closing shift at the internet cafe.

Shizaru, there are many theories to consider, you have yours and I have mine. None is better than the other, and both are speculative. We will just have to wait and see. This does make for good discussion.
Logged

In My Opinion
Shell
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3550



« Reply #115 on: September 13, 2006, 07:11:44 PM »

Am I understanding this correctly? Steve C. tells him Grammy that while at his job he heard 3 boys (JK2) and a girl (Natalee) arguing? The fact is, Steve played hooky from work and went to C n C and saw the 3 amigos and Natalee? He also tells the police he saw the boys drop Natalee off at the HI? (I am so confused now)

Btw, the tap water today tastes weird! Has it always tasted like this, but my taste buds were dulled from smoking? I figured after a heart attack and now spots showing up on xrays, it is time for me to quit. I have attempted to quit over the past year and had relapses. Anyhow, I have made it 24 hours today.
Logged

*Avatar courtesy of CBB, a very talented and sweet monkey. Peaches and 2NJ, may you rest in peace. You will never be forgotten.
BTgirl
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9235



« Reply #116 on: September 13, 2006, 07:18:18 PM »

Quote from: "Shell"
Am I understanding this correctly? Steve C. tells him Grammy that while at his job he heard 3 boys (JK2) and a girl (Natalee) arguing? The fact is, Steve played hooky from work and went to C n C and saw the 3 amigos and Natalee? He also tells the police he saw the boys drop Natalee off at the HI? (I am so confused now)

Btw, the tap water today tastes weird! Has it always tasted like this, but my taste buds were dulled from smoking? I figured after a heart attack and now spots showing up on xrays, it is time for me to quit. I have attempted to quit over the past year and had relapses. Anyhow, I have made it 24 hours today.


Shell - I used to teach a stop smoking class at a big hospital, and I still remember some of the lessons from the class. One thing I remember is that nicotine paralyzes the cilia in the lungs. (Those are the little hairlike things that are supposed to clear impurities from the lungs, for anyone who doesn't know.) Nicotine also has a numbing effect on the senses of taste and smell. When you stop smoking all those body parts that have been numbed start to come to life again. Your lungs will start to clear out the tar and nicotine (and you will cough a lot for a while), and your senses of taste and smell become more acute.

Congratulations to you and good luck!!!! Very Happy  Very Happy
Logged

I Stand With The Girl
Shell
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3550



« Reply #117 on: September 13, 2006, 07:23:18 PM »

I am just thinking, if Steve was not at work like he should of been, and he didn't see them drop off Natalee at HI like he said he did, then just where was SC after closing time at CnC's? It sounds to me like he is the one who needs an alibi.
Logged

*Avatar courtesy of CBB, a very talented and sweet monkey. Peaches and 2NJ, may you rest in peace. You will never be forgotten.
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 74276



WWW
« Reply #118 on: September 13, 2006, 07:28:25 PM »

I was looking through today's BONDIA and ran accross this.  The initials L.V.R. jumped out at me.  We need to have Jossy or someone translate and look into this, IMO:
 Shocked   Shocked
Logged
Ono
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8933



« Reply #119 on: September 13, 2006, 07:39:48 PM »

Quote from: "Shell"
I am just thinking, if Steve was not at work like he should of been, and he didn't see them drop off Natalee at HI like he said he did, then just where was SC after closing time at CnC's? It sounds to me like he is the one who needs an alibi.


My memory is probably hazy, but didn't Steve Croes have that night off, as the Tatoo didn't run on Sundays ?
Logged
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 6.335 seconds with 19 queries.