Lively Case Discussion #523a 9/12 - 9/15/2006 (use this one)

[Carnut]

You can put me down for being skeptical of any rape video or porn tapes with
Nat in it.

Way too complicated for the crime of a simple date rape gone wrong.

[thirdstrike]

I'm not so sure Dompig was involved in any of the cover-up...

In the beginning he sounded way too sincere about wanting to find and prosecute the killers...

And then he sound just too plain dumb ~ that I doubt the people that San listed would trust him...

I'm inclined to believe that Dompig is not involved in the coverup, but can't get past those he knows are covering up.  I also think that he and possibly Janssen were pressured into making public statements about suspecting Beth and an insurance scam.   Jossy said earlier this year that the rumor was that Michael Dompig was going to be arrested.  Then Dompig comes out and says that Michael was lying about GVC and Michael doesn't get arrested.  Hmmmmmmm  The new police chief is Dutch and Dompig is very angry.  Hmmmmmmm  Starting to add up.

I agree with this LilPuma.  I just think he doiesn't have the intelligence, experience, or training to handle a case of this magnitude.  I still believe incompetence is probably 40-50% of the problems of this case.  I believe the rest is corruption...

[thirdstrike]

You can put me down for being skeptical of any rape video or porn tapes with
Nat in it.

Way too complicated for the crime of a simple date rape gone wrong.

Leave it to my man Carnut to come in, and say what I've been trying to for almost an hour now!    As I've been saying in here all day...less is more!!  Thanks man!!

What he said...

[Carnut]

I'm not so sure Dompig was involved in any of the cover-up...

In the beginning he sounded way too sincere about wanting to find and prosecute the killers...

And then he sound just too plain dumb ~ that I doubt the people that San listed would trust him...

I'm inclined to believe that Dompig is not involved in the coverup, but can't get past those he knows are covering up.  I also think that he and possibly Janssen were pressured into making public statements about suspecting Beth and an insurance scam.   Jossy said earlier this year that the rumor was that Michael Dompig was going to be arrested.  Then Dompig comes out and says that Michael was lying about GVC and Michael doesn't get arrested.  Hmmmmmmm  The new police chief is Dutch and Dompig is very angry.  Hmmmmmmm  Starting to add up.

I agree with this LilPuma.  I just think he doiesn't have the intelligence, experience, or training to handle a case of this magnitude.  I still believe incompetence is probably 40-50% of the problems of this case.  I believe the rest is corruption...

Yeah, incompetence, corruption, and a legal mind that has connections and the ability to manipulate them all.

[San]

I am not sure which show Geraldo reported this on.  At the time Geraldo had his own show on Fox and he is the one who told Beth about Joran going to therapy for anger problems.

I do not give the suspects any credit for their intelligence and quite frankly I think they are quite stupid.  What gives these suspects credit for their intelligence is when you have grown men coaching them and altering their statements.  I'll give you a few names:

Paulus Van der Sloot - Judge in Training
Jan Van der Straaten - Chief of Police
Dennis Jacobs - Narcotics Detective
David Kock - Joran's Lawyer
Rudy Croes - Justice Minister

I agree with you San.  But, this is not unlike ANY criminal investigations done here in the US (using your clarification above).  All suspects are "coached" by their lawyers.  It's their legal right to be.  But, as you said...it's not very ethical to recive that coaching from members of the agencies in which you are being investigated.  That defeats the wntire purpose of the investigation itself...

I guess like I said earlier...I'm more of a "black & white" type of thinker when it comes to things like this.  Not too big on mass conspiracy theories, as it seems to soemtiems take the focus away from where it should have been placed from day one. Is this case complex??  Sure it is.  But, my beilefs are that they became complex after the fact.  The act itself is very simple to figure out, IMO...

You hit the nail on the head.  To be coached by the agencies that are suppose to be investigating what happened to Natalee is a shame.  They violated Natalee's rights for a fair investigation.  When you have the ALE helping the main suspects with their witness statements is just a crime.  One other thing regarding those statements, they are suppose to be video taped it is the law I believe.  Do you think that they have these tapes or did they also disappear with all the evidence?

As far as seeing things Black & White a very smart person told me once you only see things Black and White there is no in between with you.  I said no I guess I don't.  People think there is a cover-up and some don't.  There was a murder and they covered it up it’s plain and simple not too complicated to me.

[KatzHome]

I'm not so sure Dompig was involved in any of the cover-up...

In the beginning he sounded way too sincere about wanting to find and prosecute the killers...

And then he sound just too plain dumb ~ that I doubt the people that San listed would trust him...

I'm inclined to believe that Dompig is not involved in the coverup, but can't get past those he knows are covering up.  I also think that he and possibly Janssen were pressured into making public statements about suspecting Beth and an insurance scam.   Jossy said earlier this year that the rumor was that Michael Dompig was going to be arrested.  Then Dompig comes out and says that Michael was lying about GVC and Michael doesn't get arrested.  Hmmmmmmm  The new police chief is Dutch and Dompig is very angry.  Hmmmmmmm  Starting to add up.

And I think pressured into making the statements about drug purchases too...  Pressured into saying a lot of negative things...  but still not being actual "part" of the cover-up ~ but aware that's what was going on...

[thirdstrike]

...and I can see the filming too, with consenting parties, just like you...  

Whoa!  I didn't mean to imply I had either consented to, or participated in any tape of this kind.  That's not my style Katz.

Just wanted to clarify...

Strike!!! I didn't say I did either!!!!  Nor intended to imply that you did...

I just said that I could see how it could happen....

Just clarifying too!   seesch!!!

I mean, I'm sexy enough to be in one of those tapes.  Just sayin' I don't roll that way...ya know??  

Sorry, my bad.  Back to the topic at hand...

[klaasend]

Thirdstrike - you are too trusting of KJ and ALE, in my opinion.  The video Joran downloaded (or someone at the VDS home) that night was "backseatbangers".  That website has videos that are supposed to be amateur videos of the act in the back seat of cars.  Very similar to BangBus.  Just like kids get ideas from TV and the Movies they get ideas from the porn videos as well.  

The fact that Freddy wasn't prosecuted means absolutely nothing to me with the obvious coverup of everything else in Aruba.

[KatzHome]

Thanks for giving me a laugh, Strike...     And, I'll bet you are...


::blink::  Now, where were we?

[KatzHome]

Thirdstrike - you are too trusting of KJ and ALE, in my opinion.  The video Joran downloaded (or someone at the VDS home) that night was "backseatbangers".  That website has videos that are supposed to be amateur videos of the act in the back seat of cars.  Very similar to BangBus.  Just like kids get ideas from TV and the Movies they get ideas from the porn videos as well.  

The fact that Freddy wasn't prosecuted means absolutely nothing to me with the obvious coverup of everything else in Aruba.

I don't trust the people at the top of ALE ~ the ones that San listed ~ in the least, Klaas...

But, there still is a world of a difference between DOWNLOADING one of those videos and making one of your own...

A really, really big difference...

[San]

Hi all.  Just stopping to test new avatar...testing....

I like your new Avatar tidy.

[Easywriter]

I think she was drugged, but I think something violent took place.  Or she tried to get away and was run down by the car.

Knowing what we now know about Aruba, dropping off a dead tourist that had overdosed would have been the simplest thing in the world to do in Aruba and Paulus would have known that to be true.  There has to be another ingredient in the dynamics of this case that caused such an intensive cover-up.

Possible DNA would not have meant spit in Aruba either, so there had to be some obvious physical trauma, in my opinion.

[Carnut]

...and I can see the filming too, with consenting parties, just like you...  

Whoa!  I didn't mean to imply I had either consented to, or participated in any tape of this kind.  That's not my style Katz.

Just wanted to clarify...

Strike!!! I didn't say I did either!!!!  Nor intended to imply that you did...

I just said that I could see how it could happen....

Just clarifying too!   seesch!!!

I mean, I'm sexy enough to be in one of those tapes.  Just sayin' I don't roll that way...ya know??  

Sorry, my bad.  Back to the topic at hand...

Did I ever post the story of a local lady newscaster who had a sexual romp with her husband filmed and that eventually the tape got out to the media for all the locals to chuckle over?

I remember at the time wondering why would you do that? Save the tape for the grandchildren or what?

[San]

Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years."

Thanks Appeals!  Appreciate the info.

One question though...with these charges against Freddy, why wasn't he tried?  I mean, if they had, in fact, possession of such a tape, then surely they'd have a slam dunk case of rape against Freddy, wouldn't they?

This is what bothers me so much about this stuff.  If the evidence was there, why wasn't there a prosecution?

That's the one that Anita said was nothing more than an innocent photo of a girl in a bikini  

To answer your questions, charges against Freddy would mean also charges against Joran.  They weren't going to allow that to happen.

I agree Klaas.  Freddy goes down so does Joran.

[Carnut]

I think she was drugged, but I think something violent took place.  Or she tried to get away and was run down by the car.

Knowing what we now know about Aruba, dropping off a dead tourist that had overdosed would have been the simplest thing in the world to do in Aruba and Paulus would have known that to be true.  There has to be another ingredient in the dynamics of this case that caused such an intensive cover-up.

Possible DNA would not have meant spit in Aruba either, so there had to be some obvious physical trauma, in my opinion.

Yep, totally agree with this.

[KatzHome]

Did I ever post the story of a local lady newscaster who had a sexual romp with her husband filmed and that eventually the tape got out to the media for all the locals to chuckle over?

I remember at the time wondering why would you do that? Save the tape for the grandchildren or what?

Can't imagine why either, Carnut...  but then again...  I don't see what anyone gets out of watching any of those videos either...  Just not my thing...

[thirdstrike]

The fact that Freddy wasn't prosecuted means absolutely nothing to me with the obvious coverup of everything else in Aruba.

On the contrary, Klass.  I think it has signifigant meaning in regards to the context in which he was arrested...and why there was no prosecution.  If you really think about it, I believe the arrest itself was used as a way to get Freddy back in to talk.  Maybe the charges were exaggerated.  Maybe (like most of the suspects arrested in this case) they were embellished to the point of falsification.  Regardless of this, I simply can't believe they would ignore a crime such as a videotaped rape just so they could protect a suspect in a completely seperate criminal act...especially when it's so heavily covered in the media.  Call me too trusting of KJ or the ALE.  Call me naive.  But, some things you just can't do...no matter how hard you try.  This, IMO, would be one of them...

[KatzHome]

Maybe the girl in the video wouldn't press charges, Strike?

[Appeals]

Hello everyone!! That is an interesting find appeals!

Hi Elaine and thank you.  Every time you come on and post those newspaper links, I wish we had someone who could translate for us!

[Appeals]

Hi all.  Just stopping to test new avatar...testing....

Cute new tar, Tidy, but I didn't recognize you in your new tux!