Lively Case Discussion #523a 9/12 - 9/15/2006 (use this one)

[thirdstrike]

Maybe the girl in the video wouldn't press charges, Strike?

Are you talking about the alleged Joran tape?  If so, then it's a possibility.  Although, I'd tend to believe someone that young would have a choice in the matter...

As for the charges against Freddy (to whom I have been referring to), an unconscious person wouldn't have the ability, nor the legal rioght to not want charges pressed.  Once you forgo consent, it's all over...

[Easywriter]

Were there any charges brought against those that raped the school girl?  No, because the girl’s parents did not want her to go through the legal process in Aruba.

Is Debra Lafave sitting in jail?  No, because a deal was cut due to the fact that the boy’s parents did not want him to go through the American legal Process.

Who knows.....

[Appeals]

Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years."

Thanks Appeals!  Appreciate the info.

One question though...with these charges against Freddy, why wasn't he tried?  I mean, if they had, in fact, possession of such a tape, then surely they'd have a slam dunk case of rape against Freddy, wouldn't they?

This is what bothers me so much about this stuff.  If the evidence was there, why wasn't there a prosecution?

Cause they only prosecute the downtrodden and vulnerable on Aruba, not the elite, nor, it seems, the cumpadres of the elite.

By the way, at the time Geraldo was covering this and making these comments about the video, I had the distinct feeling...wish I could remember the specifics...that his staff had been talking to students, peers of Joran's, before the word came down for everybody to stop talking.  It would make sense that schoolmates would know about a video Joran was trying to sell.

[thirdstrike]

Maybe the girl in the video wouldn't press charges, Strike?

Are you talking about the alleged Joran tape?  If so, then it's a possibility.  Although, I'd tend to believe someone that young would have a choice in the matter...

As for the charges against Freddy (to whom I have been referring to), an unconscious person wouldn't have the ability, nor the legal rioght to not want charges pressed.  Once you forgo consent, it's all over...

I mean to say would NOT have a choice n the matter...

[klaasend]

NEW STATEMENT POSTED IN THE "IMPORTANT CASE DOCUMENT" FORUM:

MICKEY JOHN - Suspect Statement 06/05/2005

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=345

We wanted to be able to post on the front page as well but Red and Tom are still working through some bugs on the FP.

[Kat_Gram]

As far as Freddy goes, I don't know what happened to his " evidence " KJ presented pix of some girl in a provacative pose, but she was in a bathing suit. So, what was up with that ?
Just like Geoffrey being detained on " possession ", that fell thu.
In my mind if you say someone has " possession" you now have the posssession and that is what you present as you evidence.
KJ has to be a ditz. No other explanation.

[klaasend]

Here are the exact charges against Freddy Arambatziz, according to Vinda de Sousa:

Intentionally distributing sexual images of a minor.
Intercourse with an unconscious person.
Sexual acts with a girl younger than 16 years."

Thanks Appeals!  Appreciate the info.

One question though...with these charges against Freddy, why wasn't he tried?  I mean, if they had, in fact, possession of such a tape, then surely they'd have a slam dunk case of rape against Freddy, wouldn't they?

This is what bothers me so much about this stuff.  If the evidence was there, why wasn't there a prosecution?

Cause they only prosecute the downtrodden and vulnerable on Aruba, not the elite, nor, it seems, the cumpadres of the elite.

By the way, at the time Geraldo was covering this and making these comments about the video, I had the distinct feeling...wish I could remember the specifics...that his staff had been talking to students, peers of Joran's, before the word came down for everybody to stop talking.  It would make sense that schoolmates would know about a video Joran was trying to sell.

Appeals - that's how I remember it as well.  It was very early in the case, prior to PVDS being detained, I believe.  What I remember too is that shortly after, Geraldo stopped covering the case (in Aruba anyway).

[Appeals]

The fact that Freddy wasn't prosecuted means absolutely nothing to me with the obvious coverup of everything else in Aruba.

On the contrary, Klass.  I think it has signifigant meaning in regards to the context in which he was arrested...and why there was no prosecution.  If you really think about it, I believe the arrest itself was used as a way to get Freddy back in to talk.  Maybe the charges were exaggerated.  Maybe (like most of the suspects arrested in this case) they were embellished to the point of falsification.  Regardless of this, I simply can't believe they would ignore a crime such as a videotaped rape just so they could protect a suspect in a completely seperate criminal act...especially when it's so heavily covered in the media.  Call me too trusting of KJ or the ALE.  Call me naive.  But, some things you just can't do...no matter how hard you try.  This, IMO, would be one of them...

So where do you stand as far as believing that after three different girls wanted to come forward to ALE to tell about things of this nature having been experienced by them, they backed down only after Jacobs talked to them all?  Just coincidence or something more sinister?

[KatzHome]

Maybe the girl in the video wouldn't press charges, Strike?

Are you talking about the alleged Joran tape?  If so, then it's a possibility.  Although, I'd tend to believe someone that young would have a choice in the matter...

As for the charges against Freddy (to whom I have been referring to), an unconscious person wouldn't have the ability, nor the legal rioght to not want charges pressed.  Once you forgo consent, it's all over...

No, I was talking about the charges against Freddy ~ I didn't know the details of that supposed film with Freddy ~ and I also didn't know that an unconscious person doesn't have the legal right to not want charges pressed.  Thanks! I learned something!

[thirdstrike]

...what I remember too is that shortly after, Geraldo stopped covering the case (in Aruba anyway).

He was probably drawing diagrams in the Aruban sand of where they planned to investigate next...

[KatzHome]

I mean to say would NOT have a choice n the matter...

I knew what you meant.  

[klaasend]

...what I remember too is that shortly after, Geraldo stopped covering the case (in Aruba anyway).

He was probably drawing diagrams in the Aruban sand of where they planned to investigate next...

Ok, 3rd...you win that round, lol  

[Kat_Gram]

I just read the new statement. Why did they arrest OR detain him again ? becasue it isn't in there.

[KatzHome]

NEW STATEMENT POSTED IN THE "IMPORTANT CASE DOCUMENT" FORUM:

MICKEY JOHN - Suspect Statement 06/05/2005

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=345

We wanted to be able to post on the front page as well but Red and Tom are still working through some bugs on the FP.

Klaas ~ do you know if we're going to get the statement that Lorenzo gave?  THAT'S one of the ones I'd like to see!

[Carnut]

I've always liked Geraldo, though he can get a bit bombastic on occasion.

[Easywriter]

NEW STATEMENT POSTED IN THE "IMPORTANT CASE DOCUMENT" FORUM:

MICKEY JOHN - Suspect Statement 06/05/2005

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=345

We wanted to be able to post on the front page as well but Red and Tom are still working through some bugs on the FP.

Is it a good one, or is it something to check out later?

[KatzHome]

...what I remember too is that shortly after, Geraldo stopped covering the case (in Aruba anyway).

He was probably drawing diagrams in the Aruban sand of where they planned to investigate next...

Ok, 3rd...you win that round, lol  

    Yeah he did...  Good one, Strike!

[Easywriter]

I've always liked Geraldo, though he can get a bit bombastic on occasion.

I liked it when he got his nose broken with a chair.  Now that's TV! lol

[klaasend]

Katz - we continue to get statements and I continue to ask Red to look for a Lorenzo statement.  It's at the top of my list, right up there with Joran's 5/31/2005 statement.

Easywriter - Nothing to implicate MJ at all but he does make a statement at the end of his interrigation that is pretty interresting.

[thirdstrike]

The fact that Freddy wasn't prosecuted means absolutely nothing to me with the obvious coverup of everything else in Aruba.

On the contrary, Klass.  I think it has signifigant meaning in regards to the context in which he was arrested...and why there was no prosecution.  If you really think about it, I believe the arrest itself was used as a way to get Freddy back in to talk.  Maybe the charges were exaggerated.  Maybe (like most of the suspects arrested in this case) they were embellished to the point of falsification.  Regardless of this, I simply can't believe they would ignore a crime such as a videotaped rape just so they could protect a suspect in a completely seperate criminal act...especially when it's so heavily covered in the media.  Call me too trusting of KJ or the ALE.  Call me naive.  But, some things you just can't do...no matter how hard you try.  This, IMO, would be one of them...

So where do you stand as far as believing that after three different girls wanted to come forward to ALE to tell about things of this nature having been experienced by them, they backed down only after Jacobs talked to them all?  Just coincidence or something more sinister?

No, I definetely believed they were intimidated...although not by Jacobs (I think they only thing that would be intimidated by him would be doughnuts).  I think there were some other "people of power" who got to these girls.  So yes...I believe there was something much more sinister at work in regards to that Appeals.

Listen, I don't mean to sound "basic" here.  I do truly believe there were some very heavy influences in regards to the coverup in this case.  It's just that I believe it to be after the fact.  The crime itself (I believe) is very basic in nature.  What you see is what you get as far as that goes...

Ans yes...I do tend to think that a good part of the mishandling of this investigation comes from incompetence...plain and simple.  They make the Keystone Cops look like Scotland Yard...