Lively Case Discussion #523a 9/12 - 9/15/2006 (use this one)

[KatzHome]

No, I definetely believed they were intimidated...although not by Jacobs (I think they only thing that would be intimidated by him would be doughnuts).  I think there were some other "people of power" who got to these girls.  So yes...I believe there was something much more sinister at work in regards to that Appeals.

Listen, I don't mean to sound "basic" here.  I do truly believe there were some very heavy influences in regards to the coverup in this case.  It's just that I believe it to be after the fact.  The crime itself (I believe) is very basic in nature.  What you see is what you get as far as that goes...

Ans yes...I do tend to think that a good part of the mishandling of this investigation comes from incompetence...plain and simple.  They make the Keystone Cops look like Scotland Yard...

One of the girls came out and said that she decided not to press charges after Dennis Jacobs came and talked to her.

[Carnut]

I agree Easy.  If it were an accident Paulus would not have to call in the troops to cover for his rotten child.

Maybe San.  Or, maybe he still would in order to protect his own reputation.  Remember...he was trying to advance himself in the leagl profession.  Something like this would have surely had a negative impact on his chances at doing so...

He already knew he flunked becoming a judge.  He wasn't advancing anywhere.

Yeah, but the ole ahole may have thought he still had some form of reputation to protect.

[klaasend]

I find Sander's statement a little odd.  He refers to Natalee several times as the little girl.  Now, if you had never seen someone, I would think you might say the missing girl, the blonde girl, the American girl....but the little girl (when she is older than him) just seems to me he saw her.

I kinda figured that was just 'parroting' what he had been coached to say from someone older.

Then why didn't the others call her the little girl?? Only Sander??

Because I fixed it in the others  

[Buckeye]

I find Sander's statement a little odd.  He refers to Natalee several times as the little girl.  Now, if you had never seen someone, I would think you might say the missing girl, the blonde girl, the American girl....but the little girl (when she is older than him) just seems to me he saw her.

I kinda figured that was just 'parroting' what he had been coached to say from someone older.

NO - the "little girl" is how it comes through in the translation.  It's probably just "GIRL".  Don't read too much into it.

Thanks Klaas.

[KatzHome]

Over and out for now

Bye ~ see ya next time!

[KatzHome]

Hiya Monkeys

Hi Yapperz!

[Easywriter]

I agree Easy.  If it were an accident Paulus would not have to call in the troops to cover for his rotten child.

Maybe San.  Or, maybe he still would in order to protect his own reputation.  Remember...he was trying to advance himself in the leagl profession.  Something like this would have surely had a negative impact on his chances at doing so...

He already knew he flunked becoming a judge.  He wasn't advancing anywhere.

Right and his free ride with the legal system was set to come to an end as well.  Plus, what did happen sure didn't protect his reputation and it has damn near destroyed a funky little island.

[Kat_Gram]

Paulus said to Dave that he would do anything to protect his son.
Even if it were an " accident :, Joran still would have had a criminal record. that would have limited his options in the future. like coming to the States to study and quite a few other things.

[yapperz1]

Pauly Puss don't give a damn about anyone on the island except his precious cargo, which IMO should have been taken off the streets long ago

[thirdstrike]

I agree Easy.  If it were an accident Paulus would not have to call in the troops to cover for his rotten child.

Maybe San.  Or, maybe he still would in order to protect his own reputation.  Remember...he was trying to advance himself in the leagl profession.  Something like this would have surely had a negative impact on his chances at doing so...

He already knew he flunked becoming a judge.  He wasn't advancing anywhere.

Yeah, but the ole ahole may have thought he still had some form of reputation to protect.

Exactly Carnut.  People are forgetting that even though he was a "failing" judge (which I've heard different versions of his status), he still was, in fact, in the Aruban (or Dutch) legal system as such.  And, with him knowing he was struggling to remain so, he'd most surely wouldn't want something like an O.D. of an American tourist (involving his own son) to be the final "nail in his coffin" with regards to his profession...would he?

But, to be more specific, I do believe there was a little more then Natalee overdosing on drugs at play here.  Although I don't believe her death to have been intentional, it was a direct result of Joran and the K2's.  She was victimized in some way, and that's why Paulus (along with others in power) felt the need to aid in the concealing of the crime...

[Easywriter]

Paulus said to Dave that he would do anything to protect his son.
Even if it were an " accident :, Joran still would have had a criminal record. that would have limited his options in the future. like coming to the States to study and quite a few other things.

Criminal record for what?  It takes proof to make a criminal case and more so than that it takes someone willing to make the case.  These statements we have been reading should have all these jerks sitting in jail, but they don't.

I've not seen or read anything that would make me think anyone on Aruba would have pursued this case, if on the surface it appeared to be accidental.

[thirdstrike]

Paulus said to Dave that he would do anything to protect his son.
Even if it were an " accident :, Joran still would have had a criminal record. that would have limited his options in the future. like coming to the States to study and quite a few other things.

Criminal record for what? It takes proof to make a criminal case and more so than that it takes someone willing to make the case.  These statements we have been reading should have all these jerks sitting in jail, but they don't.

I've not seen or read anything that would make me think anyone on Aruba would have pursued this case, if on the surface it appeared to be accidental.

Let's see...using the premise that it was a simple O.D....there'd be very good reason to charge Joran with administering Natalee drugs (which even in Aruba is a crime, believe it or not)...the fact that he had violated her sexually without her consent (rape)...ect.  Even without elaborating any further with regards to criminal involvement, these (2) things alone would be anough to ruin any chance at a normal life for not only Joran, but for his father as well.

Seems enough of a reason(s) for me to believe his pops' would want this thing to go away...

[ala_gunslinger]

Paulus said to Dave that he would do anything to protect his son.
Even if it were an " accident :, Joran still would have had a criminal record. that would have limited his options in the future. like coming to the States to study and quite a few other things.

Criminal record for what?  It takes proof to make a criminal case and more so than that it takes someone willing to make the case.  These statements we have been reading should have all these jerks sitting in jail, but they don't.

I've not seen or read anything that would make me think anyone on Aruba would have pursued this case, if on the surface it appeared to be accidental.

Hey ya'll!

Miss me?

Easy,  I have to agree with you.  Or to quote a favorite movie line of mine, "I see no method."

Bye ya'll!

[San]

Pauly Puss don't give a damn about anyone on the island except his precious cargo, which IMO should have been taken off the streets long ago

I agree Yap.  Those parents left a psycho unattended to.  They should have taken him to Holland like they did the other two boys.  I don't buy the BS he had exams.

[klaasend]

Hi Gunslinger - I agree as well

Bye Gunslinger    

[San]

Exactly Carnut.  People are forgetting that even though he was a "failing" judge (which I've heard different versions of his status), he still was, in fact, in the Aruban (or Dutch) legal system as such.  And, with him knowing he was struggling to remain so, he'd most surely wouldn't want something like an O.D. of an American tourist (involving his own son) to be the final "nail in his coffin" with regards to his profession...would he?

But, to be more specific, I do believe there was a little more then Natalee overdosing on drugs at play here.  Although I don't believe her death to have been intentional, it was a direct result of Joran and the K2's.  She was victimized in some way, and that's why Paulus (along with others in power) felt the need to aid in the concealing of the crime...

Third you said it was a simple crime before.  What you are explaining above is not a simple crime to me.

[San]

O/T - FDA URGES CONSUMERS TO AVOID BAGGED FRESH SPINACH AFTER E. COLI OUTBREAK LEAVES ONE DEAD, 50 MORE SICK IN EIGHT STATES

**Watch FOX News Channel or go to http://foxnews.com

[Easywriter]

Some people seem to forget we are dealing with Bizarre-O world here and logical extrapolation does not apply.  First it would have to be proven that she did not willingly take drugs.  The Deputy Chief made that leap even without any evidence whatsoever.  That gives me a hint that LE in Aruba would not have given a drug OD a second thought after a tourist spent a night partying at C-n-C’s.

Rape?  He said; she said, only she is not around to say!  Given the attitude of the lead investigator and the comments he made to Dave Holloway, I seriously doubt they would have questioned one of their own beyond, “Did you?  Did she say yes?

Paulus was deeply entrenched into the system in Aruba and had made many contacts and done many favors.  Potential rape would have been whitewashed immediately given those circumstances.

Yes, Paulus went into action, but there had to be a reason for him doing so beyond a simple overdose.

[Whodunit?]

NEW STATEMENT POSTED IN THE "IMPORTANT CASE DOCUMENT" FORUM:

MICKEY JOHN - Suspect Statement 06/05/2005

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=345

We wanted to be able to post on the front page as well but Red and Tom are still working through some bugs on the FP.

Who is M. CELAIRE?

[klaasend]

DANA PRETZER - CBAND - Call in starting at 8:30pm Eastern.

September 14th 9pm et

I discuss the Suzanne Swift case with her mother.

Also New York Times Best Selling Author Larry Garrison "The News Breaker"

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/net.html

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884

I understand he has a toll free number now as well.  I'm sure he'll give us that number when he begins his show in 15 minutes.