Lively Case Discussion #523a 9/12 - 9/15/2006 (use this one)

[Lala'sMom]

Good evening monkey friends!  How is everyone?  Did I see Mr. Purple Coolness in here?  

[San]

Some people seem to forget we are dealing with Bizarre-O world here and logical extrapolation does not apply.  First it would have to be proven that she did not willingly take drugs.  The Deputy Chief made that leap even without any evidence whatsoever.  That gives me a hint that LE in Aruba would not have given a drug OD a second thought after a tourist spent a night partying at C-n-C’s.

Rape?  He said; she said, only she is not around to say!  Given the attitude of the lead investigator and the comments he made to Dave Holloway, I seriously doubt they would have questioned one of their own beyond, “Did you?  Did she say yes?

Paulus was deeply entrenched into the system in Aruba and had made many contacts and done many favors.  Potential rape would have been whitewashed immediately given those circumstances.

Yes, Paulus went into action, but there had to be a reason for him doing so beyond a simple overdose.

Exactly Easy.

[Anna]

Katz it is hard to believe that anyone films a rape.. but then again we see it happening in the class room on the island...

I spent some time this morning looking at the Interpol site and many other crime related sites and it looks like filming rapes and child abuse of all kinds is the up and coming enterprise in the Caribbean as well as other parts of the world.  It is just unbelievable and horrible.

I am bringing this forward from several pages back because I think it is important.  I am certainly not saying this is what happened to Natalee but that it is a possibility.  It is possible this is what the suspects had in mind but were unable to quite pull off.  Or maybe they succeeded.  We have schoolboys talking photos of a rape with their cell phones.  It is polular in many countries now to do the "Slap Happy" where they run up and beat up somebody (at least one to death) while a friend videos it with a cell phone just for fun.  Nothing is going to be done to the schoolboys.

And considering this as a POSSIBILITY is far from a waste of time as it goes to motive and a reason why the PIMPS were in action above and beyond just the usual aspect of things.

I don't agree that it takes away from the focus of anything as all angles need to be looked at especially angles that are a part of past behavior of the group or pack of predator types.  There is no hesitation on the part of those taking the photos or vids to do so of a crime punishible by many years in jail just as child pornographers do.  

This is a somewhat new phenomenon with which we are dealing not possible before the advent of every kid walking around with a camera phone.  

So while we do not need to make it to focal point of everything, it is something we need to keep in the back of our minds as a motivating factor for their otherwise unexplicable behavior.  And if anything of the sort existed, it would be the perfect evidence for a conviction.  

Early on we were led to believe such a vid did exist with things like the Grindl code, etc. and did look very hard for one to no avail.  Granted some would want it  destroyed should it exist but that does not mean that it was.  So while it is only something to keep in the back of our minds, we do need to at least accept that this is very commonplace these days at least in certain parts of the world.  Please do as Appeals did and check it out if you do not believe it happens and happens often these days.

I also tend to think there is no video of Natalee because I think it would have surfaced by now if for no other reason than to collect the reward, etc.  But it well could have been what they had in mind in the beginning especially since K2 were previously involved with Freddie in making a video as Geraldo seems to think.

JMO of this video aspect of things.

[klaasend]

DANA PRETZER - CBAND - Call in starting at 8:30pm Eastern.

September 14th 9pm et

I discuss the Suzanne Swift case with her mother.

Also New York Times Best Selling Author Larry Garrison "The News Breaker"

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/net.html

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884

I understand he has a toll free number now as well.  I'm sure he'll give us that number when he begins his show in 15 minutes.

In 15 minutes you can start calling in questions.  

[Easywriter]

DANA PRETZER - CBAND - Call in starting at 8:30pm Eastern.

September 14th 9pm et

I discuss the Suzanne Swift case with her mother.

Also New York Times Best Selling Author Larry Garrison "The News Breaker"

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/net.html

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884

I understand he has a toll free number now as well.  I'm sure he'll give us that number when he begins his show in 15 minutes.

Cool, I was trying to find something to watch on TV.  This will be better.

[Sue]

DANA PRETZER - CBAND - Call in starting at 8:30pm Eastern.

September 14th 9pm et

I discuss the Suzanne Swift case with her mother.

Also New York Times Best Selling Author Larry Garrison "The News Breaker"

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/net.html

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884


I understand he has a toll free number now as well.  I'm sure he'll give us that number when he begins his show in 15 minutes.

In 15 minutes you can start calling in questions.  

I am at work will miss most of interview I am sure, I hope you guys pound him with questions

[Whodunit?]

Paulus said to Dave that he would do anything to protect his son.
Even if it were an " accident :, Joran still would have had a criminal record. that would have limited his options in the future. like coming to the States to study and quite a few other things.

Criminal record for what? It takes proof to make a criminal case and more so than that it takes someone willing to make the case.  These statements we have been reading should have all these jerks sitting in jail, but they don't.

I've not seen or read anything that would make me think anyone on Aruba would have pursued this case, if on the surface it appeared to be accidental.

Let's see...using the premise that it was a simple O.D....there'd be very good reason to charge Joran with administering Natalee drugs (which even in Aruba is a crime, believe it or not)...the fact that he had violated her sexually without her consent (rape)...ect.  Even without elaborating any further with regards to criminal involvement, these (2) things alone would be anough to ruin any chance at a normal life for not only Joran, but for his father as well.

Seems enough of a reason(s) for me to believe his pops' would want this thing to go away...

And didn't we hear very early on that being the last one known to have been with someone who has disappeared is enough alone to charge him with kidnapping in Aruba?

[klaasend]

DANA PRETZER - CBAND - Call in starting at 8:30pm Eastern.

September 14th 9pm et

I discuss the Suzanne Swift case with her mother.

Also New York Times Best Selling Author Larry Garrison "The News Breaker"

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/net.html

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884

I understand he has a toll free number now as well.  I'm sure he'll give us that number when he begins his show in 15 minutes.

Cool, I was trying to find something to watch on TV.  This will be better.

I agree.  Unfortunately, when he starts his shows at 9 they are right at my dinner time.  I told Red he needs to start them later for me, lol  

[Easywriter]

DANA PRETZER - CBAND - Call in starting at 8:30pm Eastern.

September 14th 9pm et

I discuss the Suzanne Swift case with her mother.

Also New York Times Best Selling Author Larry Garrison "The News Breaker"

http://st106.startlogic.com/~cbandtal/net.html

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884

I understand he has a toll free number now as well.  I'm sure he'll give us that number when he begins his show in 15 minutes.

Cool, I was trying to find something to watch on TV.  This will be better.

I agree.  Unfortunately, when he starts his shows at 9 they are right at my dinner time.  I told Red he needs to start them later for me, lol  

I want him to start earlier so I won't fall asleep! lol  I'm an early bird.

[klaasend]

Easywriter - I like to get up early and stay up late.  One thing we do try to stick to though is a certain time for dinner and that's 6pm (or close to it).  I do realize that 9pm is probably better for most though, so I won't complain.  Just makes it nearly impossible for me to call in prior to the show.

[KatzHome]

...But, to be more specific, I do believe there was a little more then Natalee overdosing on drugs at play here.  Although I don't believe her death to have been intentional, it was a direct result of Joran and the K2's.  She was victimized in some way, and that's why Paulus (along with others in power) felt the need to aid in the concealing of the crime...

I think you hit the nail right on the head, here, Strike.

[Anna]

.
Dompig already told us Natalee was seen "with drugs" meaning he was taking the official position that any OD was of her own doing.  I agree with Easy, it would have been whitewashed on the part of the suspects.  They would just say Natalee took the drugs before she even got in the car with them and then proceeded to practically rape all three suspects herself.  See Deepak's lie to his friend in chat.  They would claim to have had to fight her off, etc.  so sexually aggressive was she.

There has to be more than just sex and drugs involved, some reason why the truth should never be allowed to be known.  If we knew what that was, we would be a long way toward knowing how the cover up actually took place.  But sex and drugs would never result in any charges against anybody in Aruba.  When has it ever?  And I mean past rapes reported to police or attempts with suspects that look just like Jerry whom all ALE must know about if we do.  

They just don't bother with the little stuff in their opinion like rapes and druggings as seen by Dennis Jacobs telling Dave where it happens all the time.  Why else would people be drugged if not to commit a crime against them of some sort?  And yet ALE did nothing at all and even gave Dave the location of where it often happened.

Read the Murder and Crime thread of how people have been choked to death and Aruba says heart attack.  Only when outside autopsies are obtained is the truth ever known.  So if they routinely cover up murder, they are never going to go after somebody for drugging or raping, that is just an accepted thing per Dennis Jacobs attitude.

.

.

[KatzHome]

Exactly Carnut.  People are forgetting that even though he was a "failing" judge (which I've heard different versions of his status), he still was, in fact, in the Aruban (or Dutch) legal system as such.  And, with him knowing he was struggling to remain so, he'd most surely wouldn't want something like an O.D. of an American tourist (involving his own son) to be the final "nail in his coffin" with regards to his profession...would he?

But, to be more specific, I do believe there was a little more then Natalee overdosing on drugs at play here.  Although I don't believe her death to have been intentional, it was a direct result of Joran and the K2's.  She was victimized in some way, and that's why Paulus (along with others in power) felt the need to aid in the concealing of the crime...

Third you said it was a simple crime before.  What you are explaining above is not a simple crime to me.

He falling down and hitting her head, while trying to get away from them ~ or her being injured by them to stop her from getting away...

That's still pretty simple, to me, anyways, San...

[oldfart]

Easywriter - I like to get up early and stay up late.  One thing we do try to stick to though is a certain time for dinner and that's 6pm (or close to it).  I do realize that 9pm is probably better for most though, so I won't complain.  Just makes it nearly impossible for me to call in prior to the show.

How about having food delivered ( no prep time in the kitchen)  

[KatzHome]

Good evening monkey friends!  How is everyone?  Did I see Mr. Purple Coolness in here?  

Hi Lalas!  Yeah, we did...  But it looks like the Cool may have left the building...  

And I'm most of the way afk from here too ~  I **have** to get those photos shot!!!  ::bangs head with hand::  My "lunch time chat on the board" turned into a long "3 martini" type of Friday lunch...   Bye ya'll!

[Easywriter]

~  Ride Sally Ride ~

What is your first question tonight OF?

Burn up his new toll free number!

[klaasend]

Start calling in with questions for Larry Garrison!!

[KatzHome]

I was really hoping that they were about to produce her body when Dompig said that Natalee was seen with drugs...

And that's one of the things I was referring to earlier when I said that I thought Dompig was told to say certain things...  But that I didn't think he was actually in the inner circle of the cover-up.

Again ~ bye!

[oldfart]

Dana's 800 #  
1 877-842-7884

[KatzHome]

Oh my gosh!  Okies...  I will, Klaas...