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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #523a 9/12 - 9/15/2006 (use this one)  (Read 116742 times)
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mishy
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« Reply #660 on: September 14, 2006, 10:03:29 PM »

I have been trying to pay close attention to that case as well...

I gotta get my wee one into bed....goodnight monkeys!!
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Bring Natalee home...
Kat_Gram
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« Reply #661 on: September 14, 2006, 10:05:19 PM »

Was there anything on Dana'a show re: Natalee and this case ?
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mrs. red
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« Reply #662 on: September 14, 2006, 10:05:31 PM »

We need to get back to topic.... so any thoughts on what Larry had to say about this case?

Jacquie.. I will talk about Trenton with you in that thread if you want to...
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To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
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« Reply #663 on: September 14, 2006, 10:05:50 PM »

Quote from: "mishy"
I have been trying to pay close attention to that case as well...

I gotta get my wee one into bed....goodnight monkeys!!

good night Mishy!
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To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
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Jacqueline
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« Reply #664 on: September 14, 2006, 10:06:36 PM »

Quote from: "mrs. red"
We need to get back to topic.... so any thoughts on what Larry had to say about this case?

Jacquie.. I will talk about Trenton with you in that thread if you want to...


Yes, you are right....

I did not hear the show, can someone fill me in on some of his statements?
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terryd270
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« Reply #665 on: September 14, 2006, 10:06:43 PM »

I'm going to do some things, I now a member of two meetup.com groups and had my first tennis meeting last night and it went great.. Now I joined the biking group and we are doing a ride down A1A next weekend..  I have like 50 new friends and this is kinda neat.. I recommend it, if you like people and you have an interest, there is a group out there..  www.meetup.com ..  Everyone have a great night..  I need to figure out how to get another 8 hours out of a day..
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #666 on: September 14, 2006, 10:13:05 PM »

As far as something else being involved in this case, that might be the truth, but right now, we ( I ) are only guessing.
When this first happened, Natalee missing, Joran involved,no one knew what this would morph into. I doubt if Paulus knew that Joran would walk like he did. Also, I doubt if he had a written guarantee in his pocket on May 29, that if Joran got into trouble of a magnitude so big that the police would be involved, that the kid gets out of jail free.
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #667 on: September 14, 2006, 10:15:27 PM »

Well, g'nite.
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klaasend
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« Reply #668 on: September 14, 2006, 10:20:26 PM »

Quote from: "mrs. red"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "mrs. red"
I want to be Dana's call screener... Shocked

Had to turn it off, what happened?


He just said he didn't have one... and I am volunteering... do y'all think anyone from India would call then?  

and Klaasend can you please, pretty please go and delete the two posts in the political thread about Suzanne Swift with the wrong website?

 Laughing Oh, I'm sure they would!

Fixed the political thread for you  Wink
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klaasend
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« Reply #669 on: September 14, 2006, 10:20:49 PM »

Quote from: "Kat_Gram"
Well, g'nite.

Nite Kat_Gram
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Anna
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« Reply #670 on: September 14, 2006, 10:23:12 PM »

.
I don't think Paulus had a written guarantee but the jailer at KIA seemed to know a great deal of Joran's past and I suspect Uncle Jan did as well.  I am speaking of his fighting, stealing, etc.  So I do tend to think Paulus thought he could get Joran out of anything small like drinking and gambling underage.

Not sure how high he thought it would go because surely he did not anticipate a crime of this magnitude.  But Joran had never gone to jail for his crimes before so I do tend to think Paulus thought he could get away with quite a bit.

JMO
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mrs. red
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« Reply #671 on: September 14, 2006, 10:27:01 PM »

Klaasend... thank you for fixing that for me...

Monkeys, I am tired, but tomorrow is Friday.. thank God!

Keep the faith...
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To accomplish great things we must not only act but also dream, not only plan but also believe.
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« Reply #672 on: September 14, 2006, 10:28:58 PM »

Quote from: "Anna"
.
I don't think Paulus had a written guarantee but the jailer at KIA seemed to know a great deal of Joran's past and I suspect Uncle Jan did as well.  I am speaking of his fighting, stealing, etc.  So I do tend to think Paulus thought he could get Joran out of anything small like drinking and gambling underage.

Not sure how high he thought it would go because surely he did not anticipate a crime of this magnitude.  But Joran had never gone to jail for his crimes before so I do tend to think Paulus thought he could get away with quite a bit.

JMO

I agree Anna.  As far as I'm concerned we don't even know what other crimes Joran has done. Shocked
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Anna
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« Reply #673 on: September 14, 2006, 10:48:34 PM »

.
Well, we know of quite a few small crimes Joran has committed such as threatening the tourist with a knife, getting in a fight at Dunkin Donuts (might be the same incident) throwing somebody off a bridge, something about a kid through a plate glass that was "settled with the parents" (more Paulus influence?), drinking and gambling all over the island underage, breaking his brother's cell phone (what was on it?) and stealing from his parents and I believe Jossy said from other students whom he did not hesitate to apply physical force to do.  And some girl had the nerve to complain because he pulled a knife on her at C&C but I am sure that was just one of those false accusations we hear so much about, right?   Rolling Eyes

But then we get to the "twenty times before" that this happened and I have to wonder what exactly he meant by that.  

Since it is a proven statistic and fact that the vast majority of rapes still go unreported, we don't know what happened twenty times before.  Guess the reason they still to this day go so under reported is because it is so easy to make false accusations against innocent males?  PUH-LEEZE!   Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes  Rolling Eyes

So while you are correct, we don't know what all he has done, we do know several things and yet he was never in any trouble with the police in any way for any of them.  Gee, I wonder where he got the idea he was above the law?  And someone made the ones who came forward to folks like Clint van Zandt all go away as well.  Poof!  All his accusers just vanish.  So I guess he would actually be correct in his thinking that the law does not apply to him.

In this country, we are a nation of laws and not men.  I think there are other countries who could really learn from that concept.
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« Reply #674 on: September 14, 2006, 11:09:51 PM »

Below is an email that JennyM shared over at RU, she wouldn't say who she got it from only that it was from a "former" poster.  Interresting is that some are saying it was written by Roger (scrux), and that Roger is now posting at BFN under a different nickname.  I must say the writing style in this email does look similar to Roger's: Shocked

Quote:
a. Beth was foolish in her outlandish interpretations and assumptions
of guilt (kidnap, gangrape, murder).

b. She was irresponsible in making those accusations, because those
who mattered (ale, fbi and the prosecution) had seen the same
documents and they simply wrote her off from that point on (when she
began her idiotic tirades based on false conclusions).

c. Her advisors (attorneys, friends, relatives) were irresponsible in
not stopping her from making a fool of herself (which all concluded or
now can conclude retrospectively).

d. The television hosts were irresponsible in allowing her to make
such statements (and to now not disavow them) if she had made them
privileged to these documents.


About Joran:

a. The documents made me far more suspicious of Joran, primarily in
relation to what he described to the Alabama crew and police that
first night.

His inappropriate detailed descriptions of sexual play would have been the farthest thing from the mind of a person who was innocent of wrong doing... who just merely didn't want to admit leaving a girl on the beach.

Who would tell people looking for their missing daughter about having "fingered" her and the description of her underwear? No one except some one squirming to hide something far more complex and far more sinister.

b. Ironically, Joran's choice of the very detailed sexual activities
and really disrespectful terminology worked (evil genius). It caused
Beth and Jug to go off on that tangent, wasting their valuable airtime
resulting the ALE regarding them as just "off the hook."

c. Joran's still telling the very complicated lie as late as the June
8th (his first statement, however unsigned, as a suspect) while
unrelated people were being incarcerated at the time(the guards) shows
me a person very committed to a complicated deception (had to have a
strong motivation to keep that up).


d. Only Freddy Zedan's telling the police the second story (she was
left at the beach) that Joran had told him privately and then telling
Joran's parents what he had told the police is what caused Joran to do
his June 14th signed version abandoning the Holiday Inn lie.


e. Joran's convoluted statements with all of these circumstances
makes me believe that he experienced something very horrible
(accidental death or unintentional suffocation to stop her protests of
him taking advantage of a drunken girl) and he had a dead girl on his
hands.

f. The time line established by phone and computer records shows that
the body disposal was done quickly and without assistance (no boat)
beyond himself or the K2 (he would have had to call someone else and
that didn't happen) or Deepak assisted him. Deepak could have picked
him up and they arranged to do the computer activity at Joran's place
to establish alibis (with Satish on the other end pretending to be
Deepak). If Joran disposed of the body himself, he probably did the
big swim out to where the currents are (and was just lucky, because
most times a body would wash back). Other's probably have surmised
this, hence the "witness" who came forward, hoping to get Joran to
break when he heard that "someone saw him."

g. More than likely Deepak assisted. If Deepak helped Joran (all done
after the 3:30-3:45 computer activity) then they might have made a
trip to the city dump. With the hotels dumping trash daily, a body
disposed there would have been hidden quickly. A city dump is such a
dynamic place that only a massive well-funded effort could find a body
(and that's depends on a lot of luck).

h. Deepak's unnecessary descriptions of car cleaning (establishing why
it would be so spotless and have cleaning fluids) makes me think that
the Deepak assistance (after all computer alibis were established) to
the dump is probably the best explanation.

i. Deepak's wanting Satish left out of the story... leads me to
believe that Satish never saw the body and only stayed home to do the
computer responses to Joran's computer messages.

j. Deepak probably dropped off Joran at home (the second time) at at
about 5 am (just before the time he knew his Dad awakened) in time to
get up and make it to school. Deepak just went home and crashed.
Satish missing school and Deepak sleeping until afternoon is a strong
indication that all were participating in this all night activity.


k. We know that these guys are not professional criminals nor are they
brilliant, so this body disposal would have had to have been simple
(easily conceived and executed). Then luck would have to come into
play.

About Paul: Being an attorney who showed his training and knowledge
in shutting up Joran and the Kalpoes once he knew about the case we
can conclude that from his allowing Joran to yap away like a howling
coyote that first night that he was caught by surprise. Once he knew
that Joran might be involved in something... he got Joran to shut up
(as any attorney would). Had he been a part of the disposal... Joran
would have had a very simple story ready ("I remember leaving her on
the beach, but I really can't remember any details of that evening.").
Paul came in late... and his advice helped Joran to freeze his
story and shut up.
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Carnut
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« Reply #675 on: September 14, 2006, 11:18:26 PM »

Huh? He says he's convinced now that JVDS did it but that Beth shouldn't have had the ALE after him?
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« Reply #676 on: September 14, 2006, 11:21:58 PM »

Quote from: "Carnut"
Huh? He says he's convinced now that JVDS did it but that Beth shouldn't have had the ALE after him?

Well, what it sounds like to me is whoever wrote that email is saying that Beth came on too strong and caused some of the problems.  I disagree with that.

But...if it is Roger, I find it very interresting that he believes after all his research what we have believed all along. Wink
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robots
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« Reply #677 on: September 14, 2006, 11:24:38 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Carnut"
Huh? He says he's convinced now that JVDS did it but that Beth shouldn't have had the ALE after him?

Well, what it sounds like to me is whoever wrote that email is saying that Beth came on too strong and caused some of the problems.  I disagree with that.

But...if it is Roger, I find it very interresting that he believes after all his research what we have believed all along. Wink


i dont know who roger is, but it seems like he has finally come to his senses, except he is wrong about Beth
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SunFreak2
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« Reply #678 on: September 14, 2006, 11:26:01 PM »

I've been reading back to catch up.

I did catch part of Dana's show with Larry Garrison.  Larry was hinting at and Dana seemed to confirm that something big is about to happen with Dana's show.  I hope this means that Dan's show is being picked up by a radio network or moving to Satellite spot like Sirius.   Very Happy

BTW, Bob Seger & the Silver Bullet Band will be on Jay Leno tonight.
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Carnut
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« Reply #679 on: September 14, 2006, 11:30:00 PM »

Quote from: "robots"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "Carnut"
Huh? He says he's convinced now that JVDS did it but that Beth shouldn't have had the ALE after him?

Well, what it sounds like to me is whoever wrote that email is saying that Beth came on too strong and caused some of the problems.  I disagree with that.

But...if it is Roger, I find it very interresting that he believes after all his research what we have believed all along. Wink


i dont know who roger is, but it seems like he has finally come to his senses, except he is wrong about Beth


Roger was someone who I thought had a Scrux loose and didn't have a good grasp of reality.
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