Lively Case Discussion #523a 9/12 - 9/15/2006 (use this one)

[Red]

Hey EASY,

I only have a second ... as I am swamped today. I think you will see some changes in the not too distant future. We are always working on things behind the scenes. Busy, Busy, Busy.

Front Page just got upgraded with a new server ... to will the forum.

We have always tried to cover other missing person stories and will continue to do so. Give a voice to the many as well as for Natalee. We are constantly in contact with parents of other missing people.

BTW, sorry for the delay ... book just went out.

Stay tune ...

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

MEP Cannibalizing their Own … Think They are Feeling the Pressure in Aruba?

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/09/15/mep-cannibalizing-their-own-think-they-are-feeling-the-pressure-in-aruba/

[the big hammer]

Everything Right...But Yet...

Ono writes: "...Beth and Jug and entourage did everything completely right...they KNEW time was of the essence and executed their moves perfectly....even delivering Joran up to the police on a silver tray..."

I generally agree with this.  

In fact, the arrival of the HT family outside the sloot house within 24 hours after Natalee entered the kalpoe vehicle is astounding; a near perfect logistical feat that would rival military level execution.  Beth wasn't even in Alabama: she was in Arkansas -- nearly 2000 miles away from Aruba --driving to Alabama when she received word that Natalee was missing.  That the HT family was able to martial the resources they did in order to get to Aruba within hours, with an additional MedVac jet in tow, remains, imo, remarkable.

The family was placed in an impossibly difficult position with an unprecedented situation unfolding in real time.  They did the best they could -- and their best was far better than most could even imagine doing if placed in a similar situation.

But there will remain lingering and haunting questions.  Among those include whether an HT family should have stayed w/ the k2 car, once it was identified at the sloot house, and this is mentioned in Dave's book I believe, or has been mentioned earlier by HT family.  Perhaps they feel too that a photographic record of that car's interior should have been made, with their own cell phone cameras.  I had always also secretly wished that a few HT family members had remiained at the sloot house while papa led the goose chase to the casinos, because they would have intercepted goon and deepak upon their return -- and they would have been alone w/ the two for some "straight talkin".  I wonder too if they wish they had recorded their conversations w/ ALE during their first hours on the scene, recordings that could later serve them well if a civil action against the Aruban government were to be contemplated.  Of course none of these questions are operative in an environment where law enforcement is functioning properly.  I recall Hat's retort: that a "squad of American moms" could have solved this case in 48 hours.  

I suppose we'd have to expect lingering questions to persist, because despite the tremndous effort poured forth, Natalee remains unfound.  But that tremendous effort, which continues today, is testimony to the value the HT family placed on Natalee's well-being.  They would have done ANYTHING to ensure their daughter's safety and return, and in the end, that's pretty much what they did.

[Easywriter]

Hey EASY,

I only have a second ... as I am swamped today. I think you will see some changes in the not too distant future. We are always working on things behind the scenes. Busy, Busy, Busy.

Front Page just got upgraded with a new server ... to will the forum.

We have always tried to cover other missing person stories and will continue to do so. Give a voice to the many as well as for Natalee. We are constantly in contact with parents of other missing people.

BTW, sorry for the delay ... book just went out.

Stay tune ...

I look forward to the new improved Monkey Cage!  I'm sure it would be a lot of work, but I love the idea of special guest online, if enough time was allotted to the guest to answer questions.

No sweat with the book, but I am happy that it is on my way.  It will join a prominent place on my bookshelf along side my many Jossy books.

[Easywriter]

Everything Right...But Yet...

Ono writes: "...Beth and Jug and entourage did everything completely right...they KNEW time was of the essence and executed their moves perfectly....even delivering Joran up to the police on a silver tray..."

I generally agree with this.  

In fact, the arrival of the HT family outside the sloot house within 24 hours after Natalee entered the kalpoe vehicle is astounding; a near perfect logistical feat that would rival military level execution.  Beth wasn't even in Alabama: she was in Arkansas -- nearly 2000 miles away from Aruba --driving to Alabama when she received word that Natalee was missing.  That the HT family was able to martial the resources they did in order to get to Aruba within hours, with an additional MedVac jet in tow, remains, imo, remarkable.

The family was placed in an impossibly difficult position with an unprecedented situation unfolding in real time.  They did the best they could -- and their best was far better than most could even imagine doing if placed in a similar situation.

But there will remain lingering and haunting questions.  Among those include whether an HT family should have stayed w/ the k2 car, once it was identified at the sloot house, and this is mentioned in Dave's book I believe, or has been mentioned earlier by HT family.  Perhaps they feel too that a photographic record of that car's interior should have been made, with their own cell phone cameras.  I had always also secretly wished that a few HT family members had remiained at the sloot house while papa led the goose chase to the casinos, because they would have intercepted goon and deepak upon their return -- and they would have been alone w/ the two for some "straight talkin".  I wonder too if they wish they had recorded their conversations w/ ALE during their first hours on the scene, recordings that could later serve them well if a civil action against the Aruban government were to be contemplated.  Of course none of these questions are operative in an environment where law enforcement is functioning properly.  I recall Hat's retort: that a "squad of American moms" could have solved this case in 48 hours.  

I suppose we'd have to expect lingering questions to persist, because despite the tremndous effort poured forth, Natalee remains unfound.  But that tremendous effort, which continues today, is testimony to the value the HT family placed on Natalee's well-being.  They would have done ANYTHING to ensure their daughter's safety and return, and in the end, that's pretty much what they did.

They were able to cross international boundaries and swoop in on the last people seen with their daughter in a way others can only wish for.  Yet, they were slapped in the face at every turn.  How they maintained their dignity and sanity is beyond me.

[mrs. red]

Afternoon Monkeys....

[LilPuma]

COCK A DOODLE DOO COCK A DOODLE DOO COCK A DOODLE DOO !  How is everyone this Friday?

Funny you should say that!  Last night, on Episode 1 of Survivor - Cook Islands, the castaways were given live chickens to keep in a tiny box until they were ready to eat them.  As an animal lover and advocate, I was quite excited and cheered the fact that the chickens got away - deep into the forest.  Don't know if they'll survive, but at least they'll have a chance.

[LilPuma]

Everything Right...But Yet...

Ono writes: "...Beth and Jug and entourage did everything completely right...they KNEW time was of the essence and executed their moves perfectly....even delivering Joran up to the police on a silver tray..."

I generally agree with this.  

In fact, the arrival of the HT family outside the sloot house within 24 hours after Natalee entered the kalpoe vehicle is astounding; a near perfect logistical feat that would rival military level execution.  Beth wasn't even in Alabama: she was in Arkansas -- nearly 2000 miles away from Aruba --driving to Alabama when she received word that Natalee was missing.  That the HT family was able to martial the resources they did in order to get to Aruba within hours, with an additional MedVac jet in tow, remains, imo, remarkable.

The family was placed in an impossibly difficult position with an unprecedented situation unfolding in real time.  They did the best they could -- and their best was far better than most could even imagine doing if placed in a similar situation.

But there will remain lingering and haunting questions.  Among those include whether an HT family should have stayed w/ the k2 car, once it was identified at the sloot house, and this is mentioned in Dave's book I believe, or has been mentioned earlier by HT family.  Perhaps they feel too that a photographic record of that car's interior should have been made, with their own cell phone cameras.  I had always also secretly wished that a few HT family members had remiained at the sloot house while papa led the goose chase to the casinos, because they would have intercepted goon and deepak upon their return -- and they would have been alone w/ the two for some "straight talkin".  I wonder too if they wish they had recorded their conversations w/ ALE during their first hours on the scene, recordings that could later serve them well if a civil action against the Aruban government were to be contemplated.  Of course none of these questions are operative in an environment where law enforcement is functioning properly.  I recall Hat's retort: that a "squad of American moms" could have solved this case in 48 hours.  

I suppose we'd have to expect lingering questions to persist, because despite the tremndous effort poured forth, Natalee remains unfound.  But that tremendous effort, which continues today, is testimony to the value the HT family placed on Natalee's well-being.  They would have done ANYTHING to ensure their daughter's safety and return, and in the end, that's pretty much what they did.

I agree completely.  Following these events, you have the police acting (with Beth and later, Dave) as if there's no urgency.  You have Jug hearing or being told that what was said at the Sloot coop is not what's in police reports.   Dave gets there 36 hours later and the police know about the crack house invasion by the Americans, but they do NOT know there's a missing American tourist??!!!!  The fact that Jug and Beth didn't buy or steal a gun from the crack houses and go postal amazes me.   Beth didn't screw up this investigation; ALE did from day 1.  Why didn't they just burn an American flag in front of their courthouse?  It would have sent the same message.

[Ono]

Easy:

The weather is so beautiful now...take your mom to the new  (well, kinda new) Roussos' over the Bay (in the new shopping center across from Timber Creek) for lunch and eat out on their patio....did that last weekend and it was totally fine ~  

I'm not a big fan of Roussos's food, but that is a nice shopping center.  I have taken her there before.  I was thinking about taking scenic 98 and stopping at Manci's for lunch to see if she checks out the Indian. lol

  Have never been to Manci's..; Yes, the shopping center is very well done. I think Rousso's is much better now than it was when it was downtown near Fort Conde...

[Easywriter]

Easy:

The weather is so beautiful now...take your mom to the new  (well, kinda new) Roussos' over the Bay (in the new shopping center across from Timber Creek) for lunch and eat out on their patio....did that last weekend and it was totally fine ~  

I'm not a big fan of Roussos's food, but that is a nice shopping center.  I have taken her there before.  I was thinking about taking scenic 98 and stopping at Manci's for lunch to see if she checks out the Indian. lol

  Have never been to Manci's..; Yes, the shopping center is very well done. I think Rousso's is much better now than it was when it was downtown near Fort Conde...

Great burgers and very rustic in old Daphne.  So, you don't know about the Indian?  Well, I won't give it away just in case you should check the place out. lol

[LilPuma]

Re. this recent release of statements for our scrutiny --

I would love to see the results of that strategic 9 days during which ALE claims to have been monitoring J2K's movements etc. (Prior to their arrest.)

ALE also claims that 9 days was not long enough -- that pressure from the family caused them to have to act prematurely.

I take that to mean that they have nothing from that period, and "it's all Beth's fault".  

Because certainly such surveillence should reveal where the car was every minute ... and I want to know that.

I've always wondered that too.  Does the report say that the Kalpoes sat around the Slooty pooly with Joran?  Does the report say that any chance of finding physical evidence of wrongdoing would be gone and the Dutch boy couldn't be convicted without it?  Does it tell us that Paulus warned the boys that their phones and computers would be monitored, or did they not know that until the police car tapes were heard?  Clearly, they weren't concerned about getting the truth out of these guys so they could start looking in the right direction if Natalee was still alive.  Perhaps they knew in those first few days that it was too late?

[Ono]

Hammer:

Great points ( as usual ) re: "lingering & haunting questions"..The saddest phrase is : "if only"    But in their defense, I don't think it had yet dawned on anyone at that wee hour just how deceitful those players at the Sloot Compound were and most probably tended to give the judge-to-be-hopeful the benefit of the doubt. Sometime we Alabamians are too polite, I think.

[Ono]

Easy:

The weather is so beautiful now...take your mom to the new  (well, kinda new) Roussos' over the Bay (in the new shopping center across from Timber Creek) for lunch and eat out on their patio....did that last weekend and it was totally fine ~  

I'm not a big fan of Roussos's food, but that is a nice shopping center.  I have taken her there before.  I was thinking about taking scenic 98 and stopping at Manci's for lunch to see if she checks out the Indian. lol

  Have never been to Manci's..; Yes, the shopping center is very well done. I think Rousso's is much better now than it was when it was downtown near Fort Conde...

Great burgers and very rustic in old Daphne.  So, you don't know about the Indian?  Well, I won't give it away just in case you should check the place out. lol

  Don't worry ~ I won't be going...LOL! It says: "Private Club" and it's too rustic for me.  

[yapperz1]

Hiya Monkeys. TGIF !!!!!

OT Barton Corbin pleads guilty to both murders
http://tinyurl.com/ogumb

Jennifer was a friend of mine

[Easywriter]

Easy:

The weather is so beautiful now...take your mom to the new  (well, kinda new) Roussos' over the Bay (in the new shopping center across from Timber Creek) for lunch and eat out on their patio....did that last weekend and it was totally fine ~  

I'm not a big fan of Roussos's food, but that is a nice shopping center.  I have taken her there before.  I was thinking about taking scenic 98 and stopping at Manci's for lunch to see if she checks out the Indian. lol

  Have never been to Manci's..; Yes, the shopping center is very well done. I think Rousso's is much better now than it was when it was downtown near Fort Conde...

Great burgers and very rustic in old Daphne.  So, you don't know about the Indian?  Well, I won't give it away just in case you should check the place out. lol

  Don't worry ~ I won't be going...LOL! It says: "Private Club" and it's too rustic for me.  

It is not a bad place and does have good food.  Lot's of antiques hanging on the wall and such.  I think at night it does turn into the neighborhood bar, but in the afternoon its just average folks pigging out.

Hate to give away the surprise of the Indian, but if you twist my arm......  

[LilPuma]

Anyone have any plans for the weekend?  I think I will be playing a lot of tennis and maybe some bike riding unless my friend calls to go fishing..

If I could still do those things, maybe I wouldn't cry so much or be so sad.    

[Jacqueline]

Afternoon Monkeys....

Sistah, work is really testing me today!!!!!!!!!!


 

Scotch thirty can not come too soon for me.............

[Easywriter]

Hiya Monkeys. TGIF !!!!!

OT Barton Corbin pleads guilty to both murders
http://tinyurl.com/ogumb

Jennifer was a friend of mine

Why don't these jerks just get a divorce?  Hell it ain't fun, but it ain't the end of the world!

[LilPuma]

I've been trying to clear up some loose ends in my mind with regards to the corruption behind the cover-up.  Some familiar names & places just keep popping up.

We've probably all read that the Cuntrera - Caruano clan of La Cosa Nostra had infiltrated Aruba and allegedly bought up 60% of the island through investments in hotels, casinos and government officials.  According to Canadian police reports, in 1978, Pasquale Cuntrera owned the Holiday Inn Casino – although the registers indicated otherwise.  The US & the Dutch governements were concerned with laundering money through land investments & other construction projects in the hotel boom of the early 80's.  This Mafia clan had established itself in Venezuela and was and probably still is the largest international drug trafficker. They also control significant money laundering networks.

Some of the families they were involved with include prominent Aruban families involved in the banking industry.

"The Intercon Financial Bank on Aruba is represented by the law-firm Croes & Wever. One of the partners is former Minister of Justice Hendrik Croes. The firm's trust-company Arulex was implicated in setting up the bank. "Yes, we are involved with that bank," says Croes. "We still handle all their legal affairs, but we don't know anything of their financial accounts."

"Hendrik Croes – a brother of the island's legendary leader, the late Betico Croes who guided Aruba to its semi-independent status in the Dutch realm – is one of the leading political figures on the island. He led several election campaigns for the MEP, now in the opposition. The Croes Family has been accused of ties with Cuntrera-Caruana. The Sicilian mafiosi payed for a trip of another brother, Rudy Croes (who succeeded Hendrik as Minister of Justice in a previous MEP government) as party secretary to a meeting of the Socialist International in Turkey. This has not been denied."

The Mansur family is also reportedly linked with this clan through another Aruban bank - the  Interbank, which the Mansurs own.  "The Mansurs made their fortune as cigarette manufacturers and in the import-export business. With a licence of Philip Morris, they are the major suppliers of Marlboros in the Caribbean basin. The Mansurs sponsor the best baseball team – Aruba's national sport – the Marlboro Red Tigers as well as the AVP party of Prime Minister Henny Eman. They own the biggest hotel and time-sharing complex, La Cabana, with its inevitable casino. And they have a couple of import-export businesses in the Free Trade Zone."

In 1996, President Clinton places Aruba on the list of "major Illicit Drug-transit countries" where it remains to this day.

On 6-19-98, the Excelsior Casino is established to a Walter Brett Posner (relative of Michael Posner) residing in Chicago, Illinois.  Michael Posner was/is linked with the Mafia family in Chicago.  Posner is indicted in the USA in illegal internet betting activities.

12-8-98 - Carlo's N Charlies franchise in Aruba is established.  Reportedly associated with mob activities and drugging of patron's drinks.

1999 - Money Laundering is made illegal in Aruba, although Aruba & the Netherlands remain tax-havens.

Too many familiar surnames, too much money changing hands through legal & illegal activity on this island for this all to be coincidence.  Considering all the money one 17 yo boy spent while garnering special priveledges,  makes one wonder what Joran & Paulus were involved in.

Sources:
http://www.tni.org/archives/tblick/aruba.htm
http://members.aol.com/worldJOURNIER/NATALEE/NATALEEtimeline.html

I did a little web surfing on this topic a few times and found it odd that all the reports and articles are pre-2000.  Why are there no reports of this kind since?

[Easywriter]

Anyone have any plans for the weekend?  I think I will be playing a lot of tennis and maybe some bike riding unless my friend calls to go fishing..

If I could still do those things, maybe I wouldn't cry so much or be so sad.    

Not much solace, but you are not alone.  I would go belly up if I tried to play tennis again.