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Author Topic: Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #40  (Read 471798 times)
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cubbeegirl
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« Reply #1880 on: October 12, 2008, 02:25:24 PM »

I've heard NG and others state that premeditation can be created in an instant.  In the instant it takes to draw back your hand and form the intent to strike a child with force, and knowing that force could cause severe harm and/or death, that becomes a premeditated act.


I was surprised to hear it described that way at the murder trial I attended in February... many times it is mistakenly thought that it means one thought it out way beforehand....not so...
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"Natalee deserves to return to her country...."
    ~ Beth Holloway Twitty ~

Fly free with the angels KK!

We will never forget you sweet Caylee!
m2kfl
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« Reply #1881 on: October 12, 2008, 02:25:32 PM »


Hmm, how can I say this? Her um.......milk sacks seem to be getting full.

MURT
A little poochie in the stomach to..JMO
I noticed that too but thought that it might be because of the fit of the blouse and having what I call " a mother's gut" which I attribute to a woman who has given birth at one time.

MURT
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AZLady
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« Reply #1882 on: October 12, 2008, 02:25:59 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?
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BRING NATALEE HOME
jr
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« Reply #1883 on: October 12, 2008, 02:26:21 PM »

Dang great minds think alike.

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cubbeegirl
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« Reply #1884 on: October 12, 2008, 02:27:01 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?

WOW.... good question AZ...
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"Natalee deserves to return to her country...."
    ~ Beth Holloway Twitty ~

Fly free with the angels KK!

We will never forget you sweet Caylee!
Orchidwmn
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« Reply #1885 on: October 12, 2008, 02:27:04 PM »

Altruist remindded me of something else that bothered me about that first 911 call.  Cindy told dispatch she had bank affadavits.  None of the banks I've ever worked for could have done the required research for an affadavit (pulling photocopies of a month's worth of checks-or more- and verifying each one against a signature card-these are usually stored offsite and often in another state), called LE, and gotten an affadavit in one afternoon.  This would have practically impossible to get in the timeframe the Anthonys got the car from impound and left to get Casey.  So, when exactly did Cindy get those affadavits?  How long did she know Casey was stealing from her account or was this the Grandparents Nursing Home fund that Casey stole from?  If she knew Casey had stolen loads of money from Grandpa and Grandma, plus her own accounts-why didn't she report her much sooner and just let the police pick Casey up?  Also, if you haven't seen your grandchild for a month-wouldn't she be your very first concern?  Wouldn't you be angrier about that and threatened Casey first about that?  Wouldn't you have told dispatch about that first?
I feel that Cindy overstated her claim of what records she had. Cindy probably had gone through her bank statements and saw that Casey had been taking money out of the account. Her statement to the 911 operator was more likely a bluff to Casey. Cindy probably hoped that if Casey thought that she was going to jail for the theft from her mother's account, she would fess up and admit what happined to Caylee. As we all know, this ploy did not work.

MURT

IIRC wasn't Cindy in the car with KC at the time? KC had no where to run and Mommy's sitting there calling the popo. Man, KC is made of ice, my daughter would be cleaning up the car seat she just soiled!  
In one of the calls, KC can actually be heard saying "go ahead and call them" which indicated she did not care what her mother did.

MURT
I think you all are right about this. I think Cindy tried to play her trump card to get Casey to talk, and find out where Caylee was, but Casey is a sociopath, and called her bluff.  Then when the monkey poo began to hit the fan came the kidnapping story, and the next calls, and the lies. But she had been lying about Zanny the Nanny for at least a year if IRC. 
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higherhopes
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« Reply #1886 on: October 12, 2008, 02:27:10 PM »

I've heard NG and others state that premeditation can be created in an instant.  In the instant it takes to draw back your hand and form the intent to strike a child with force, and knowing that force could cause severe harm and/or death, that becomes a premeditated act.
  I just think that every since Caylee was born...Casey has been trying to rid herself of her and it was Cindy that was the glue between the two and now poor Caylee is the one to suffer for everything....I hope they give her the harshest pinishment that they can come up with and make her suffer more than she did Caylee....and for the rest of her life she can sit and think about what a beautiful little girl she was blessed with, and just threw away...
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I don't know, I was at work....I don't know, I was sleeping........Where is Haleigh???????
Treehouse
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« Reply #1887 on: October 12, 2008, 02:27:12 PM »

Ah so many questions... here one for you guys:

In KC's "poem" below she mentions TWICE "remember the words spoken". I believe Cindy said something to her to put her over the edge and kill her child. Saying it twice means something to her and this may be why Cindy is feeling so guilty or acting guilty, she may have thought she pushed KC too far and it's her fault the baby died ... Any ideas out there?
 

“On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies.”

On the worst of worst days,
remember the words spoken.
Hold your head high,
Smile,
Laugh,
Love unconditionally.
Tomorrow is a brand new day."




This sentence is why I think that Casey acted alone.  I don't think that she has admitted anything to anyone.


The maggots will bring Casey down!

"Remember the words spoken" makes me think that someone said "Trust no one..." to Casey.

This really bothers me, because it makes me unsure (again) about whether or not I believe that Casey had help in disposing of Caylee. In the beginnning, I thought Casey MUST have had help because of her past patterns of behavior; i.e., never completing anything on her own.  Once the first document dump happened, and I read how flat, cold, and manipulative Casey sounded in her interview with investigators, I decided that Casey did, indeed, have the capacity to act alone in Caylee's disposal.

If I allow that the poem indicates that someone told Casey to trust only herself, then I must slightly open the door on the idea that Casey did not kill her child; that, perhaps, someone else did harm to Caylee, but Casey saw it or saw the aftermath, or participated in some manner. And if I allow that Caylee was harmed by someone other than Casey, then I must also entertain the idea that Casey's life was threatened if she told.

Then, I come back to this thought: If Caylee was harmed by someone other than Casey, why would that person(s) take a chance? Why wouldn't he/she/they just kill Casey, too? Unless, they did not mean to harm Caylee, or if they did disappear a live Caylee.  (I think that this line of thinking is where Baez will have to take the defense. He must create the doubt in order to save Casey.)

Evidentally, I don't have a conclusion to this post. Other than, if I as a person who has kept up with this case, and has read everything posted at SM and in the media, can continue to have broad swings in my thoughts on the matter, I believe that a jury seated to hear the case, consisting of individuals who has not closely follow this case, will be very subceptable to the doubts that can be cast by Baez.

I sincerely hope that the truth is soon found, that Caylee is brought home, and that justice is served for whomever is involved in her disappearance.





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TexasBarMom
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« Reply #1888 on: October 12, 2008, 02:27:58 PM »

Ok here's where we are on the chloroform -

It was NOT produced by a chemical reaction in the trunk from ammonia and chlorine -
It was "pure"
It may have been difficult to obtain by the general public
** there MAY have been a container found in the trunk ?
It was googled by Casey prior to June 15th

Ok I have to go tend a roast Smile  but will be back in a little while - determined to get all my facts straight today Smile and THANKS to all you monkeys helping me do that ! 
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BooMonkey
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« Reply #1889 on: October 12, 2008, 02:29:08 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?

Absolutely!! I read that somewhere early on. They do all kinds of testing for diseases.
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"but before I can live with other folks I've got to live with myself.  The one thing that doesn't abide by majority rule is a person's conscience." -Atticus Finch
higherhopes
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« Reply #1890 on: October 12, 2008, 02:29:19 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?

WOW.... good question AZ...
Yes they are......I just read that and it says that that is part of the process...
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I don't know, I was at work....I don't know, I was sleeping........Where is Haleigh???????
jr
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« Reply #1891 on: October 12, 2008, 02:30:08 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?

WOW.... good question AZ...

That would be a great question. Would any new prisoner have to forgo a physical when entering the system? I'm sure they would not want any surprises that may hold them liable. jmo
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cubbeegirl
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« Reply #1892 on: October 12, 2008, 02:30:15 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?

WOW.... good question AZ...
Yes they are......I just read that and it says that that is part of the process...


Maybe she got pregnant during one of those loooooong attorney /client visits...
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"Natalee deserves to return to her country...."
    ~ Beth Holloway Twitty ~

Fly free with the angels KK!

We will never forget you sweet Caylee!
m2kfl
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« Reply #1893 on: October 12, 2008, 02:31:06 PM »

According to Nancy Grace report the searches for Chloroform info started in March!

HH says her friend told her that the searches happened in mid May- the 13th-15th, and some here and there after.  If it only happened right around that time, this may somewhat be explained by her love for the show CSI.. and their season finale on either May 15 or 16?  Somebody is given chloroform and died.  So.. defense could perhaps argue that because of her love for "science" and the show, she was just curious about chloroform in general. 

However, we do know that some of her friends are aware of more sinister uses of chloroform- drugging women for a good time, getting high.. whatever it is. 

But if she was researching this back in March, then IMO, you're getting harder to deny premeditation.

I think the chloroform searches won't ammount to anything sinister here.  I believe she was killed in the pool.  Either from neglect or on purpose.  From what we know right now, I have to lean on the neglect part of it....but if LE actually has some evidence towards premeditation than I will simply change my mind.  LOL

Because she's a sociopath and would NEVER tell the truth here, this may very well be her own demise.  Whether she killed Caylee on purpose or not, I think she's better off in prison for the rest of her life.  She's one scary cat in my book.


I have to ask... if it was as simple as neglect then why not take the deal given towards the beginning by the prosecution?  Baez would have told her to take the deal hands down if it was just neglect.  IMO  Given all the evidence shown thus far of from her computer, her texts, and of course her actions, I say it was premeditated.  ( Again do not throw banana's at me I will only eat them and continue to get fat!)
In the end it is Casey that makes the final decision. I would expect that Baez told her her options and the ramifications of whatever option she chose. In the end, for whatever reason, Casey turned down the offer. We all must remember that Baez is the EMPLOYEE of Casey. She has the ultimate authority to decide the fate of her case, no matter how stupid her decision may be.

MURT
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seemeatthebeach
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« Reply #1894 on: October 12, 2008, 02:31:34 PM »

It seems like there was a plethora of items in the skanks trunk.....something like 30+ items sent to the lab for analysis

Did that list include CRICKETS? lol

I think they're still trying to locate them all.....they hide very well in the crotch area
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TexasBarMom
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« Reply #1895 on: October 12, 2008, 02:32:27 PM »

Ah so many questions... here one for you guys:

In KC's "poem" below she mentions TWICE "remember the words spoken". I believe Cindy said something to her to put her over the edge and kill her child. Saying it twice means something to her and this may be why Cindy is feeling so guilty or acting guilty, she may have thought she pushed KC too far and it's her fault the baby died ... Any ideas out there?
 

“On the worst of worst days, remember the words spoken
Trust no one, only yourself.
With great power, comes great consequence.
What is given can be taken away.
Everyone Lies.
Everyone Dies.”

On the worst of worst days,
remember the words spoken.
Hold your head high,
Smile,
Laugh,
Love unconditionally.
Tomorrow is a brand new day."




This sentence is why I think that Casey acted alone.  I don't think that she has admitted anything to anyone.


The maggots will bring Casey down!

"Remember the words spoken" makes me think that someone said "Trust no one..." to Casey.

This really bothers me, because it makes me unsure (again) about whether or not I believe that Casey had help in disposing of Caylee. In the beginnning, I thought Casey MUST have had help because of her past patterns of behavior; i.e., never completing anything on her own.  Once the first document dump happened, and I read how flat, cold, and manipulative Casey sounded in her interview with investigators, I decided that Casey did, indeed, have the capacity to act alone in Caylee's disposal.

If I allow that the poem indicates that someone told Casey to trust only herself, then I must slightly open the door on the idea that Casey did not kill her child; that, perhaps, someone else did harm to Caylee, but Casey saw it or saw the aftermath, or participated in some manner. And if I allow that Caylee was harmed by someone other than Casey, then I must also entertain the idea that Casey's life was threatened if she told.

Then, I come back to this thought: If Caylee was harmed by someone other than Casey, why would that person(s) take a chance? Why wouldn't he/she/they just kill Casey, too? Unless, they did not mean to harm Caylee, or if they did disappear a live Caylee.  (I think that this line of thinking is where Baez will have to take the defense. He must create the doubt in order to save Casey.)

Evidentally, I don't have a conclusion to this post. Other than, if I as a person who has kept up with this case, and has read everything posted at SM and in the media, can continue to have broad swings in my thoughts on the matter, I believe that a jury seated to hear the case, consisting of individuals who has not closely follow this case, will be very subceptable to the doubts that can be cast by Baez.

I sincerely hope that the truth is soon found, that Caylee is brought home, and that justice is served for whomever is involved in her disappearance.


I TOTALLY AGREE SHE ACTED ALONE, for the same reason !! Remember her closest friends and relatives have said she is "diabolical"!!   She was alone in this right up until the time her parents realized the baby was dead,  which I personally believe to be whatever day she first was released from Jail.
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seemeatthebeach
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« Reply #1896 on: October 12, 2008, 02:33:14 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?

WOW.... good question AZ...

That would be a great question. Would any new prisoner have to forgo a physical when entering the system? I'm sure they would not want any surprises that may hold them liable. jmo

We had a monkey that IIRC worked at woman's prison and said all females are checked for pregnancy  when processed
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Katysmom
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« Reply #1897 on: October 12, 2008, 02:34:08 PM »

Would a woman booked in jail be screened for pregnancy?

Absolutely!! I read that somewhere early on. They do all kinds of testing for diseases.
And, I hear the body searches aren't too pleasant either.
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m2kfl
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« Reply #1898 on: October 12, 2008, 02:35:25 PM »

Let's say it was merely an accident...  So, she in fact panicked.  She knew her mother and family would hate her, and maybe her friends would doubt her as well. 

OK. I totally see that as a plausible scenario.

But why (and this is only one of many!) would she then delete nearly all of the pictures of Caylee from her computer? 

Your child accidentally dies.. if that's the case, it can probably be proven.  You might get a slap on the wrist, but not a murder conviction. There would be no logical reason for Casey to delete her child's photos from her computer.  It makes no sense.
Under this hypothetical it could be because Casey felt an overwhelming guilt. It may have been a form of self punishment for her to delete all the memories of Caylee that she could. I do not believe this is the reason for her deletion but is a possible answer using this hypothetical as the criteria.

MURT
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strayze
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« Reply #1899 on: October 12, 2008, 02:35:35 PM »

About the chloroform –

Someone with insider info (HH or Des) dropped a hint here a while back that LE thinks that Caylee died in the pool because of the presence of the chloroform – apparently when chlorinated water mixes with the ammonia in a dirty diaper, chloroform can be produced and so that’s their theory.  (I did some quick searches and found yes this can happen with chlorine and ammonia) -


See.. this is what doesn't make any sense.  We're being told that the body farm air samples  prove the chloroform was pure... NOT produced from a reaction of different chemicals. So I'd like to know which it really is? 

Body Farm associate Lab/research facility...said...pure...Des



NG had some dr on her show.. has his own laboratory. I want to say his name is Dr Lemon but that's probably WAY off.    He was the one that stated if the air samples sniffed the chloroform, it would have been pure.. not a chemical reaction.  LE has not said anything either way...  I would assume that the lab guy knows what he's talking about..   which  means that the chloroform had nothing to do with Caylee being in a pool.   (Sound about right, Des?)


I fear that the quote regarding Dr. Lemon or whatever his name is, is sadly incorrect or is misquoted.  There is a question of expected concentrations, but the usual methodology does not allow for that.  If chloroform was found, it IS there.  Makes no difference where it came from.  Never does.  One feeds an air sample to the gas chromatograph which separates out and frectionates the various gaseous substances present.  The chromatograph can care less how the chloroform got there, whether through this bottle, or that bottle, or a pair of diapers soaked in chlorinated water.  If there is chloroform, it will be found.  It absolutely does not have to be in a "pure" form, whatever that means.  (No chemical substance is absolutely "pure" save in extraordinary conditions).  There's no mystery to this puzzle which has been presented.  The chromatograph can only detect the substance, but cannot give a history of that substance.  The substance cannot  lie.

I believe whoever ws on NG was misinterpreted either in the context of the question he was answering (which is not given here), or in his answer.  I do know that some of NG's experts have not been in the lab for decades and have trouble with some questions.










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