Caylee Marie Anthony, 2, FL Missing since June 16-just reported by mother #40

[m2kfl]

Murt,
Can you take a look at this website? I read the information as there may be some items if turned over to the defense during the GJ then they may be available in Florida.

http://www.rcfp.org/secretjustice/grandjuries/pg1.html

Also, will the items that have to be turned over on Thursday going to be released in part?

Thanks in Advance, and Welcome to the Cage!

It is generally up to the court, depending on the laws of each state, as to what will be released from the GJ records and when. One example you cited shows how tough Florida is on this. A local reporter printed information that he obtain through a public records release. The state went after him and the case remains unresolved as of today based on what I read in the article.

Everything that is heard in the GJ will eventually come out during the pre-trial preparations as the information is turned over to the defense and media at the same time.

The discovery that is supposed to be turned over in 10 days from this last friday will be available to the public at the same time as it is turned over to the defense. Obviously, the public will not get the physical evidence but will probably get photographs and affadavids as to the tests and their results.  I understand that this is going to be another large batch of material which means a road trip to Kincos and another 9 cents a page being dolled out.

MURT

[Dolce]

I thought it was pure chloroform also, and here is the link and brief message:
Local Chemist Calls Chloroform In Anthony's Car 'Definitive'

Sources with knowledge of the investigation told WESH 2 that air samples from Casey Anthony's car came back positive for vaporized chloroform.

"I think it's as significant or more significant than finding decomposition products," chemist Jeff Flowers said.

Flowers has testified in state and federal court as an expert and said positive tests for vaporized chloroform mean those results could not have come from cleaning products, human body fluids or a mixture of anything else. Flowers said it had to have been pure chloroform.

"It could not have come from a chemical reaction in the trunk. It's impossible. That solvent could knock out the driver of the car. It's a very dangerous thing to have that material in your car," Flowers said.

He also said that these kinds of tests to detect vaporized chloroform are very common and admissible in court.

"I can name 30 labs in Florida that are absolutely scientifically inrefutable on that test. It's a very common test," Flowers said.
 
http://www.wesh.com/news/17392699/detail.html

Flowers is basing his conclusion on the CONCENTRATATION of the chloroform in the air samples and speculating that it is not a result of a chemical reaction of precursors.  One has to read the article itself in wesh which gives a bit more re: the crucial word "concentration".  Of course anything quoted to NG or from a news source is not a primary source, esp for technical items.  His use of the word "pure" is rather  loose but he has some built in assumptions on how else could the finding of chloroform be rationalized at a concentration which he calls "high" but apparently undivulged.   So the info Flowers goes on is based on both concentration and finding of a substance and speculation on "pure".

Sorry but I read the article, and to the common eye it states that Flowers states the chloroform was pure.  I do not see that he was "speculating" about it or using the term "pure" loosely. 
What I gather from this, as well as other news reports in the past, the chloroform was in pure form, whatever that may be.  When the sample was tested only chloroform came up, not any other cleaning agent which would house chloroform as well as other chemicals, but chloroform.  If it was a cleaning agent mixed with chemical from the pool then all those chemicals, from the pool and within the cleaning agent would be listed in the test.  He said "chloroform in its purest form".  That is how I will take it.  I am not a chemist or forensic specialist so I will base my opinion on the person who is, Flowers.

[heykim]

one thing i am SURE of... if I went to TONEs house... to GET casey..it would NOT have been to get CASEY..it would have been to get CAYLEE ... and when i got there.. i wouldnt need AMY to run interference for me.. i would have knocked on the door... barged past WHOEVER answered (should that have been whomever? )  and DEMANDED that caylee be SHOWN to me RIGHT THEN AND THERE..

now... IF  tone had said.. i have no clue.. or get the hell outta my house... i might have THEN grabbed daughter and demanded answer... but i have NO doubt i wouldnt have AT LEAST , deMANDed.. TO SEE CAYLEE...


its odd to me that the first words outta cindys mouth werent WHERE IS CAYLEE ????

[jr]

Sorry O/T but, just found a new avatar 

[misitx5]

FYI
I found this on a U of F website....
This is about Jose's Daughter
http://grove.ufl.edu/~prssa/board.html
(Crossing my fingers the pictures are not too big)

Excellent find Misi! 

Thank You and BooMonkey I just thought it would give some info on Baez' daughter...

I'm not so sure I would admit or put on a resume that "my dad" hired me.  And, she may regret being involved in this case later

I think I'm missing something.  I don't see anything about Baez's daughter at that link.  What is the relevance of the linked material?

Hey  AZ     she is the sixth person when you skroll down.......

Thanks for ansering her question I am popping in and out between cooking dinner.

[m2kfl]

About the chloroform –

Someone with insider info (HH or Des) dropped a hint here a while back that LE thinks that Caylee died in the pool because of the presence of the chloroform – apparently when chlorinated water mixes with the ammonia in a dirty diaper, chloroform can be produced and so that’s their theory.  (I did some quick searches and found yes this can happen with chlorine and ammonia) -

See.. this is what doesn't make any sense.  We're being told that the body farm air samples  prove the chloroform was pure... NOT produced from a reaction of different chemicals. So I'd like to know which it really is? 

Body Farm associate Lab/research facility...said...pure...Des

NG had some dr on her show.. has his own laboratory. I want to say his name is Dr Lemon but that's probably WAY off.    He was the one that stated if the air samples sniffed the chloroform, it would have been pure.. not a chemical reaction.  LE has not said anything either way...  I would assume that the lab guy knows what he's talking about..   which  means that the chloroform had nothing to do with Caylee being in a pool.   (Sound about right, Des?)

I fear that the quote regarding Dr. Lemon or whatever his name is, is sadly incorrect or is misquoted.  There is a question of expected concentrations, but the usual methodology does not allow for that.  If chloroform was found, it IS there.  Makes no difference where it came from.  Never does.  One feeds an air sample to the gas chromatograph which separates out and frectionates the various gaseous substances present.  The chromatograph can care less how the chloroform got there, whether through this bottle, or that bottle, or a pair of diapers soaked in chlorinated water.  If there is chloroform, it will be found.  It absolutely does not have to be in a "pure" form, whatever that means.  (No chemical substance is absolutely "pure" save in extraordinary conditions).  There's no mystery to this puzzle which has been presented.  The chromatograph can only detect the substance, but cannot give a history of that substance.  The substance cannot  lie.

I believe whoever ws on NG was misinterpreted either in the context of the question he was answering (which is not given here), or in his answer.  I do know that some of NG's experts have not been in the lab for decades and have trouble with some questions.
WAS

What if the chromatograph did not find any other drugs; would that be how they deducted it was "pure" chloroform?

A gas chromatograph is a highly accurate piece of eqipment that measures samples at the molecular level. It can determine the purity of a substance by ruling out any other chemical substance, such as water, that would be added to dilute the purity of the chemical.

MURT

[IMissThirdGrade]

Sorry everyone, I lost internet and am now behind 6 pages! arrggghhh


Well, now if there is pure chloroform in the skank's trunk of the car I can see why many might think she used it to kill Caylee.

She just might have, I don't know.

But I got a real problem with the cadaver dogs hitting in the back yard.  If she used chloroform on Caylee, why do it in the backyard?

The trunk was clearly a great place to hide the little girl, for what appears to many days....what's the backyard got to do with any of this if not for the pool???

I can't wait for the next evidence dump...this is one case I can't seem to get myself SET on any one thing as a certainty!

[m2kfl]

Orlando is out of the question for trial. I don't know of any state that doesn't know about or country for that matter. In Toronto a lot of people are following this including LE. But there is a lot of people that don't read the paper or watch the news. They can get a jury, maybe they will send out 500 questionaires like they did for OJ.

There was a high profile case that was tried in Florida. It was the case of Jessica Lundsford. This case recieved even more publicity than the Caylee Anthony case is getting at this point.

Due to the tainted Jury pool in Lake County where the trial was first scheduled, it was changed to Miami where the sentence of Death was handed down to her murderer.

MURT

I don't care what county you live in.  You can't just kill a child and expect to walk away

I agree. Our form of justice operates on the assumption of innocence until guilt is proven. It is common in a high profile case such as this one to have a change of venue within the state in order to assure as an unbiased jury as possible. In the Lundsford case, the Miami Dade juristiction was chosed due to the high population and the startling revelation that a fairly low percentage of the potental jury pool followed the Lundsford case closely enough to be of concern to either the defense or prosecution.

I remember that I was one of those called for Jury duty in Lake county for the Lundsford trial and had to disqualify myself due to the extent I was posting about the case. The county soon  realized that there was not going to be a sufficent jury pool to try the case and chose to have the venue changed.

MURT

That case was a heart breaker

Yes it was. When it was found that Jessica had been bured alive in a trash bag and had actually tried to claw her way out, the public was infuriated. I would hope that if Caylee were found to have died in a similar manner, that Casey be in jail before that discovery is made. Otherwise she may not survive to see the next sunset.

MURT

[klaasend]

Sorry O/T but, just found a new avatar 

OMG, that's funny! 

[Dolce]

Sorry everyone, I lost internet and am now behind 6 pages! arrggghhh


Well, now if there is pure chloroform in the skank's trunk of the car I can see why many might think she used it to kill Caylee.

She just might have, I don't know.

But I got a real problem with the cadaver dogs hitting in the back yard.  If she used chloroform on Caylee, why do it in the backyard?

The trunk was clearly a great place to hide the little girl, for what appears to many days....what's the backyard got to do with any of this if not for the pool???

I can't wait for the next evidence dump...this is one case I can't seem to get myself SET on any one thing as a certainty!

Many speculate that the back yard was a temporary grave yard for Caylee until Casey had better means of ridding herself of Caylee.

You do raise good questions though.  Time will tell unfortunately we have to wait to see.

[jr]

Sorry O/T but, just found a new avatar 

OMG, that's funny! 

I couldn't find any with WHITE sunglasses.................are there any computer artists here that can photoshop some in for me? TIA 

[higherhopes]

Yes it was. When it was found that Jessica had been bured alive in a trash bag and had actually tried to claw her way out, the public was infuriated. I would hope that if Caylee were found to have died in a similar manner, that Casey be in jail before that discovery is made. Otherwise she may not survive to see the next sunset.



Which would be what she deserves.......Caylle wont be able to see the next sunset and Casey should never be allowed to step into the sun ever again.........I know its mean but we are talking about a innocent baby here, and that being said ......Maybe someone will take a pop at Casey before they can lock her up.....Sorry!!!!

[IMissThirdGrade]

I know two different cadaver dogs hit on her trunk.

Did these two different cadaver dogs BOTH hit the same spot in the backyard?  or was it just one dog?

[Dolce]

Sorry O/T but, just found a new avatar 

OMG, that's funny! 

I couldn't find any with WHITE sunglasses.................are there any computer artists here that can photoshop some in for me? TIA 

Kudos to you your avi is absolutely adorable!

[BooMonkey]

This was posted on the Official Cayleeismissing myspace yesterday:

    

Missing Persons Community Event: Trenton Duckett 10/25/08
Category: Sports

 http://www.myspace.com/duckett64   

To all who can make it!!!!!! There will be a football game on October 25,2008
Sleepy Hallow Sports Complex in Leesburg Florida  2:00P.M.
$5 (all money raised will help in the continued search for Trenton).

Hope to see you there,
Joshua Duckett and Team Trenton

Please help support the Duckett family and repost today.

-a friend of Kid Finders Network and the Anthony family.

[m2kfl]

Uh Oh! This just in!!

 Casey Anthony Grand Jury Meeting Details Leaked
Sunday, October 12, 2008 2:43:40 PM

ORLANDO -- Casey Anthony's defense team and neighbors in her family's community are outraged that the grand jury will meet, and that information on the meeting was leaked to the media.

Information that 15 to 21 randomly chosen people will decide Tuesday whether Casey Anthony is indicted on homicide charges was leaked earlier in the week.

The Supreme Court states the secrecy to all grand jury proceedings is of the utmost importance to protect grand jury members from outside pressure or intimidation.

"I thought that info was confidential," said Shelly Soltis, a resident of Lee Vista. "I don't know how it got leaked or where you would even find the information for the community to be involved in that, to see what's going on. I was very surprised that press knew all about this jury."

Florida only holds a grand jury for capital cases, any crime for which the maximum punishment is death.

Although it has been quiet in the Anthony neighborhood, residents said they just want the hearing to be over with, so they can start getting life back to normal, without protesters or media

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/10/12/casey_anthony_grand_jury_meeting_details_leaked.html

This is a poorly reported story. The SCHEDULE OR CASES TO BE HEARD BEFORE A GRAND JURY IS NOT A SECRET. The ONLY thing secret in a Grand Jury is the evidence presented and testimoney heard. I am suprised that ch 13 did not clarify that.

MURT

[jr]

Sorry O/T but, just found a new avatar 

OMG, that's funny! 

I couldn't find any with WHITE sunglasses.................are there any computer artists here that can photoshop some in for me? TIA 

Kudos to you your avi is absolutely adorable!

Tooooooooooooo Funny 

[always 1]

Yikes..another Monkey I do not want to cross...LOL

Speaking of Rob I do not think the man likes me much..he never responds to my posts direct toward him and he always leaves when I log on...LOL  I do not think it is coincidence anymore!  LOL (j/k)

You got off easy, Dolce. He's called me annoying (or was it irritating?). So don't take it personally. 

We're all here for Caylee.. not to make friends.  Making friends is a perk, though.   

Rob likes all of you, he is just a thoughtful person. JMO

[Orchidwmn]

Murt,
Can you take a look at this website? I read the information as there may be some items if turned over to the defense during the GJ then they may be available in Florida.

http://www.rcfp.org/secretjustice/grandjuries/pg1.html

Also, will the items that have to be turned over on Thursday going to be released in part?

Thanks in Advance, and Welcome to the Cage!

It is generally up to the court, depending on the laws of each state, as to what will be released from the GJ records and when. One example you cited shows how tough Florida is on this. A local reporter printed information that he obtain through a public records release. The state went after him and the case remains unresolved as of today based on what I read in the article.

Everything that is heard in the GJ will eventually come out during the pre-trial preparations as the information is turned over to the defense and media at the same time.

The discovery that is supposed to be turned over in 10 days from this last friday will be available to the public at the same time as it is turned over to the defense. Obviously, the public will not get the physical evidence but will probably get photographs and affadavids as to the tests and their results.  I understand that this is going to be another large batch of material which means a road trip to Kincos and another 9 cents a page being dolled out.

MURT

Thanks for your response!

Yeah! Another document dump! 

Nothing but Casey in jail now could make me happier!

[txlisa]

It is such a strange way for a Mother to react when her child is missing. The Casey that we all see makes the public dislike her...not the media.....Just watch her ......Not a tear...no breaking down......going on with life like she doesnt have a care in the world....I know if one of my children were missing I wouldnt have a world....I wouldnt care about...Food .....Men......Makeup.......Drinking .....Dancing.....MySpace.....My car........My clothes.....Nothing.....I would just want my child back with me.......Its not natural for a Mother to be seen dry eyed and made-up while not knowing where her child is and whether she (knows) the person that has her or not doesnt make a difference....Does she exspect anyone to believe that just because she says "Oh I know she's safe because the babysitter has her" would explain her behavior.....If  this so called babysitter was so good then common sense should tell the normal person that she wouldnt kidnap a child and threaten a Mother and disappear off the face of the earth with her.....Gee she must think we all live in Disney Land....So therefore when Biaz says that the media is gonna keep Casey from getting a fair trail then Maybe he better back up and think for a minute.......Casey is keeping Casey from getting treated fairly.......

when MY grandson would disappear for even a couple MOMENTS i would freak.... heck... even his brother freaked one time when the little one decided it would be COOL to hide behind the house and not answer when called...

i just DO NOT get how ANY of them can even REMOTELY go on as normal.....
of course... after many months or years... i guess a family would have to TRY to appear like life goes on...
personally? i just dont know HOW they do it...

If something happened to my son, the world would stop!  I wouldn't sleep, I wouldn't eat.  I would just want my baby.

Lisa